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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 17, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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Trump knows the end is near. He knows his ludicrous facade of denials is crumbling.
So, Trump has shifted into a more aggressive, belligerent and sociopathological mode. Trump's one-last-stand against reality is upon us, and it will become uglier, more unpredictable, and more hazardous for anyone he deems to be "The Enemy".
Trump has entered the Querencia Phase of his presidency.
Just last week, Trump sued porn star Stormy Daniels for $20 million. He then fired Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe, 26 hours short of retiring with his pension. Trump's lawyers have demanded an end to all investigations into White House malfeasance.
These intimidation moves are the desperate actions of a madman who has been backed into a corner. Wild-eyed and crazy, foaming at the mouth, Trump is grasping at something - anything - to stave off the inevitable. He is attempting to distract, confuse, intimidate and stall his pursuers, hoping that some sort of Deus ex Machina miracle - as seen on TV - will magically materialize, and lift him from the bottomless pit of turpitude he has dug himself into.
To borrow a metaphor from a sport as barbaric and bloody as modern D.C. politics, Trump has entered the Querencia Phase of his presidency. This is when a bull in a ring realizes that the matador is finally closing in for the kill. At this point, the bull will retreat to an area of the ring that he deems a safe haven, so that he can regroup, rethink, plan, and muster the last of his strength to prepare for the epic, final battle that he knows he cannot win.
This is when the bull is most unpredictable and dangerous. A bull in the Querencia Phase of the fight must be handled very carefully, or disaster will ensue. One misstep, mistake or misjudgement can give the victory to the bull.
A querencia is a place the bull naturally wants to go to in the ring, a preferred locality... It is a place which develops in the course of the fight where the bull makes his home. It does not usually show at once, but develops in his brain as the fight goes on. In this place he feels that he has his back against the wall and in his querencia he is inestimably more dangerous and almost impossible to kill.
 Ernest Hemingway, Death in the Afternoon (courtesy Wikipedia.com)
Make no mistake: Trump has no intention of going down without taking out the matador and as much of the audience as he can. His self-image, as a godlike entity, requires a heroic and cataclysmic final act to punish those who have challenged his divinity and omnipotence.
Nixon had the decency to resign, for the benefit of the nation, when he entered his own unavoidable Querencia Phase. Trump has no such decency. And neither did Saddam Hussein, who burned the Iraqi oil wells on his way out.
The TV scene that plays over and over in Trump's mind these days is that of James Cagney, going down amid gunfire and flames:
Made it, Ma! Top of the World!
EDITOR'S NOTE TO CHRIS MAC:
This topic is climbing related, because Trump is trying to climb out of the bottomless pit of turpitude that he has dug himself into. But, the walls of that pit are like a Fisher Tower in the rain: the consistency of wet sugar.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 17, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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Tom! Great writing & good insight on your post.
I'm tempted to agree with eKat on her thoughts:
OK . . Tom wins the internet for the month of March . . . hands down.
But the month ain't over.
As the (supposed) ancient Chinese curse reads:
May you live in interesting times.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 17, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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Watchout
EDIT
but trump is too much a coward to go down inflames. He is more likely to inflict what damage he can and then skulk off with his "wealth" and a convenient cover story
New Yorkers who've known him forever are advocating this as a likely scenario
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 17, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Trump will submit when Stormy releases the picture of him wearing the Little Bo Peep get up...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 17, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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yes, Tom should get a Pulitzer for his writing on this thread.....
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 17, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
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Oh Good! Another politard thread! Awesome.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 17, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
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Querencia: also a book (something of a memoir) by Stephen Bodio.
Stephen Bodio writes like Pavarotti sings. He is a master. No one who loves the West should miss this book. Tony Hillerman
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Mar 17, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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my favourite part is the editor’s note at the end... ha!
methinks it’s high time we got a “don’t taze me cmac bro” donation button on this site that throws a fiver into cmac and rj’s beer [or maybe kombucha] fund... then when someone’s spidey senses begin to tingle and they sense a midnight thread killing spree on the horizon a few folks can throw some hopefully conciliatory beers/kombuchas cmac/rj’s way...
:)
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RussianBot
climber
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Mar 17, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
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We’re going to have to be right about this one of these times! Aren’t we? To hell with that gambler’s ruin fallacy! Talk is cheap, but the glory of being right is eternal, so looks like a good bet to me. In retrospect itt will be almost like prescience. Or just wrong again.
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Mar 17, 2018 - 10:49pm PT
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Trump is an insecure, vindictive little man-child, up with whom any decent, rational climber would not put (see how I kept it climbing-related?).
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Mar 17, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
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So you all want Pence?
Noooooooo!!!!!!
My hope is that he's caught in the dragnet, as well.
Hopefully, after the 2018 midterm elections, the balance of power will shift to the Democrats, and we won't have to deal with the possibility of the sycophantic Ryan, either.
Make no mistake: Trump has no intention of going down without taking out the matador and as much of the audience as he can. His self-image, as a godlike entity, requires a heroic and cataclysmic final act to punish those who have challenged his divinity and omnipotence.
I don't know, Tom...maybe you're right. I do wonder. He has to control the narrative that he's a "winner," and that leads me to believe he'll bail before he's impeached. You saw this same attitude with the Golden State Warriors, and how Curry dissed him, and he said, "Invitation withdrawn." It was an after the fact "I break up with you!" after he'd already been broken up with.
There was a 1989 documentary on Trump that only recently got released on YouTube. At the very end, a reporter for (the then) Spy Magazine said, "There are only two possible outcomes for Trump: either he lives out his days in a villa in Panama, shuffling around in his bathrobe, growing his finger nails long, and storing his urine in jars...or he is king of the world" (paraphrased). And this was back in '89!
I work with the guy who wrote every word of "The Art of the Deal," and he is definitely concerned about what a cornered Trump will do, because of his obvious emotional and psychological instability and neediness. He considers him a complete sociopath, and would prefer that his book be called simply "The Sociopath."
But I still wonder if Trump's greediness (which is also clearly profound) will outweigh his taking a chance of destroying it by some other action that would threaten his bank accounts or holdings.
Whatever happens, we clearly have a very unstable child in the Oval Office.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 18, 2018 - 02:05am PT
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Well, Trump's querencia has just been subpoenaed...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 18, 2018 - 02:29am PT
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Good point Moose. Trump is in the process of getting rid of all the adults in the room, McMaster and Kelly and replacing them with yes-men who will not oppose him. The mid-terms are the only thing that will stop this comedy from becoming a tragedy.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 03:04am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^
Section IV of the 25th Amendment provides for the Vice-President and majority of the Cabinet to remove an incapacitated President from office. If Trump tries to invoke a contrived national emergency to stay in power, there is a direct and simple mechanism to get rid of him.
But, if a majority of the Cabinet remains loyal to him, it could be real trouble, unless the Democrats gain control of both Houses of Congress.
Presidents Nixon and Clinton both got into serious trouble for lying and trying to deceive investigators. Their underlying crimes were relatively meaningless.
Now, we have Trump. He has concocted an intricate maze of lies, producing an inescapable trap for himself. Even his lawyers can't keep the story straight anymore.
As Warbler mentioned, it is truly astonishing to witness these unprecedented and historical events.
In a parallel universe, they would play out on the silver screen as a Woody Allen movie called Take The Election And Run.
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SilverSnurfer
Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
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Mar 18, 2018 - 06:28am PT
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I initially read the title as entering the "quinceanera phase" and thinking...okayyy..
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 18, 2018 - 06:35am PT
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For me the real question is when will the Republicans start looking out for the good for the country, not the good of their party? I'm constantly amazed and disappointed at how un-American they have become.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Mar 18, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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I figure you're talking about the politicians, Winemaker, so OK, I guess, but don't forget Mueller's a Republican (at least that's what I read) and his service to America seems to be pretty impeccable.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 18, 2018 - 08:56am PT
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We're not getting Pence.
The fact that the Republican pols, in general, are silently whistling as they pass the graveyard carries a pretty loud tune, if you think about it. Why, one has to wonder, would they behave this way. Why indeed.... "If I just stand here and don't move, maybe I'll be invisible."
They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. After all, Putin's shown us that he has zero problem with killing in broad daylight. And ironically, some of these men, being fathers, had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER playing the high-risk game they were/are engaged in. Trump being one of them. I guess it all does come down to the denial factor. "I won't get caught." But it's okay, when it's the "rich man's game," I guess, to leave your children with a criminal role model, or a horrible legacy to be shouldered the rest of their lives.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 18, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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For me the real question is when will the Republicans start looking out for the good for the country
don't hold your breath.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 18, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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Yeah yanqui, you're correct. I mean Ryan, McConnell, and their ilk. The attacks on the FBI, the ending by Republicans of the House Russia investigation, the cognitive dissonance necessary to support the amoral, lying, self serving thing in the White House is amazing. I see Sarah Sanders spewing and wonder how she can look at herself in the mirror each morning and not throw up. Don't any of these people have a limit, a conscience, an ethic?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 18, 2018 - 10:21am PT
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I initially read the title as entering the "quinceanera phase" and thinking...okayyy..
Our little girl is all grown up.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Mar 18, 2018 - 11:36am PT
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This is a terribly dangerous time. They are closing in on him, he's becoming increasingly irrational and aggressive. Beware of a major move - like firing the Special Investigator or making a big military adventure, or finding some other imperative threat to the US which will give him a rationale to declare a state of emergency.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 18, 2018 - 11:57am PT
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So you all want Pence?
Not much a choice, but Trump is worse than Pence.
Pence probably has a smaller following than Trump and if the Demo(n)s can get it together and take over the House they can put the stymie on either one and more readily on Pence.
BTW have you ever seen Stymie (the first Black Panther?) do his Trump imitation?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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For me the real question is when will the Republicans start looking out for the good for the country, not the good of their party? I'm constantly amazed and disappointed at how un-American they have become.
Follow the Money. Just, follow the Money.
Deep Throat
The social callousness of big corporations and wealthy oligarchs is directly reflected in the GOP's behavior. Basically, it comes down to a group of money addicts, with all the money, doling it out to lesser money addicts who will do anything to get their fix. The lesser addicts pass laws that favor increased concentration of wealth at the top, which further finances the lesser addicts to pass even more laws favoring the money addicts at the top.
Deregulation (lawlessness) is a primary component of this system of self-perpetuating economic malfeasance, which is why the oligarchs and big corporations are so adamant about it. The fiction that the best system is the Law of the Jungle is only true for those at the top. Civilization and laws were invented to shelter people from the Law of the Jungle, but today lawmakers are beholden to those at the top, who favor a system of lawlessness for themselves, with gated fortresses and armed guards to isolate themselves as much as possible from the rest of society.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 18, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
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Yeah, great, another politard thread. Sure, the democrats could fix everything.
Anybody see Wag The Dog?
Start to worry when we declare war on Albania.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 18, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
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I'm just itchin' to watch the private pics and videos Stormy is going to release of our fearless leader in flagrante delicto. That should be the cherry on top of the cake.
But actually I'm going to be afraid to watch!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
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That should be the cherry on top of the cake.
It'll be more like the pumpkin on top of the cake.
Trump is now saying that Comey's and McCabe's personal memos, which Trump has never seen, are FAKE MEMOS.
Trump is so guilty, on so many levels, he automatically claims everything is FAKE NEWS. Trump's criminality and turpitude is so extensive, even he can't keep track of it. Just to be safe, he immediately denies the validity of all information.
Ironically, one of Trump's purported heroes, Ayn Rand, used the term "Deniers of Reality" to describe the losers in her books.
EDIT:
David Byrne is a genius, same as he was 40 years ago. His insight into Jared Kushner, as being inexorably drawn by the Fates to be just like his father (a Federal prisoner) is priceless, and spot-on.
Just today, it was revealed that Jared defrauded the NYC planning department to increase his profits in a real estate deal.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 18, 2018 - 11:24pm PT
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Aye yai yai! You guys are truly a sad lot. All the usual suspects too. Go outside. Make new friends. That don't climb. And never did. Or at least find new enemies. Scratch that. Talk to your wives. Read some fiction. Find real jobs!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2018 - 11:39pm PT
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Trump's big MAGA win has been in Wyoming, where his approval rating has only slipped 20% since he took office.
And, California and New York are now red states.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:06am PT
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Meanwhile, BOTH parties are working extra hard to ruin the nation. Dems, repubs, it doesn't matter. They're both in it to maintain their power and stay in office. My proof? The recent spending bill, a bold "bi-partisan move," according to some repubs I was listening to. The result:
The national debt has just crossed $21 TRILLION.
Twenty one 'effin' trillion 'effin' dollars, folks. I think that amounts to about $170k per tax-paying American, since only about half the country pays federal income tax. With a few exceptions, the capitol is inhabited by idiots and cowards and a-holes because they KNOW this is the real slow motion train wreck that is charging down the tracks, and they don't give a sh*t.
As I think one economist put it, if something can't go on forever, it won't. We're going to have to pay for this idiocy at some point, and because of the self-severing jackasses in Washington, I expect the payment will be extraordinarily painful and chaotic. This is what the end of empire looks like.
So we can all eat popcorn and watch the Orange Lunatic stumble and fume, but he is only a very small part of the real problem. There are no grownups minding the store. There is some chance I'll be gone when the worst of it hits, but make no mistake: It's going to get very, very ugly.
BAd
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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There are no grownups minding the store.
Bingo!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:41am PT
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I am not normally a vindictive person, but there are some people that deserve a yuuge amount of public humiliation.
It will be great to see tRump twisting in the wind while all the rats desert his sinking clown car.
The thing that worries me the most is that in his desperation there will be another attempt at a Reichstag Fire, and that there are enough followers in the tRump cult of personality to cause some real damage. I hope Congress is ready to put an end this lunacy.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:58am PT
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The national debt has just crossed $21 TRILLION.
I'm not really concerned given the GDP and, comparatively, China's is even more leveraged.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 08:08am PT
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You st00pid Americans will never learn.
Just st00pid fools blaming everything outside of your own selves.
You Americans are the real cause of your own problems.
You selfish bastards use up the majority of the whole worlds resources and slaughter everything in sight to maintain your extravagant st00pid decadent lifestyles.
Are st00pid warmongers who's biggest industry is war products.
You, nutcases, are all over the planet meddling in everyone's business, st00pid hypocrites.
Americans are sooo st00pid blind ....
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 19, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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Twenty one 'effin' trillion 'effin' dollars, folks. Yep. The last time we had a budget surplus was under Clinton, a Democrat. That was squandered by Bush with tax cuts. Now the party (supposedly) most concerned about the debt, Republicans, just passed a tax cut for the 1% and business, increasing that debt. It happens every time; the Repubs moan and groan about the debt until they get in power then, poof, no worries. Hypocrites all.
Raise taxes and start paying the debt down. I'll propose a tax; tax every stock transaction over some amount (say $50,000, $100,000 or something) at a rate of say .5%. This would simply be a sales tax to support the country that provides all the things that make the markets possible. I pay sales tax of 8.2% on everything I buy except food; get the computer traders to pay a fair share, they have enough special deals like carried interest going for them.
Quack, quack duck.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 19, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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No Republican can claim ever creditability on morality or Party accountability again.
They are complete hypocrites on every issue.
There is still a yuge percentage of Repubs that say Trump is the best President Ever!!
They are so deep in the right wing cult, sad
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 19, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Barry R McCaffrey @mccaffreyr3
Reluctantly I have concluded that President Trump is a serious threat to US national security. He is refusing to protect vital US interests from active Russian attacks. It is apparent that he is for some unknown reason under the sway of Mr Putin.
1:46 PM - Mar 16, 2018
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RussianBot
climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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“Cambridge Analytica will try to pick at whatever mental weakness .. you have ..”
What?! We supertopo posters might have some mental weaknesses that contributed to Trump’s election?! I for one am shocked! shocked I say! and deeply offended at the mere thought of it!
I’m still holding out for collusion - that’s how mentally fit I am. Yep, I must be some kind of mental genius.
Or other. Me good. Them bad.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 19, 2018 - 10:19am PT
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I'm not really concerned given the GDP and, comparatively, China's is even more leveraged.
The two largest economies are hugely in debt, and you think it's no biggie?
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chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
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Mar 19, 2018 - 11:48am PT
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You st00pid Americans will never learn.
Just st00pid fools blaming everything outside of your own selves.
You Americans are the real cause of your own problems...
If only we had a smoking duck instead of an orange clown to lead us out of our ignorance and into the truth.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 11:57am PT
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Yeah, so cool to see David Byrne and his new work. And his analysis of Kushner - I'd hate to be Kushner, getting that notification of a "mention" from his press agent.
Meanwhile the slow march toward the precipice goes on for the WH - DT's most recent tweet: "A total WITCH HUNT with massive conflicts of interest!"
What is he SO afraid of?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 19, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
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His cult will say “he’s a fighter”.
The rest of world will say “this is what a guilty person does when they are desperate”.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 19, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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The two largest economies are hugely in debt, and you think it's no biggie?
Not particularly. if we were comparatively out of balance compared to other industrial nations then I would be, but we're not.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 19, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
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Wino, so I’d be good trading bonds? SWEET!
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 19, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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Nah, bonds too! What I'm suggesting is aimed at large traders, over some dollar amount. Wouldn't hurt to tax the computer bot traders. You? You get a pass.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 19, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
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Trey Gowdy, he of Bengazi hearings fame. He is not running next election and his conscience seems to be catching up on a number of issues.
Yesterday, about McCabe
“Make no mistake — the FBI is who recommended that he be fired. It wasn’t crazy House Republicans and it wasn’t the Trump administration,” Gowdy said. “It was his own fellow bureau agents.”
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 19, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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Yep Trump and his cronies had nuthin to do with McCabe firing
Gowdy while not a moron or idiot, is nonetheless full of schitt
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 19, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
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Yep Trump and his cronies had nuthin to do with McCabe firing
Trump fired his ass at the recommendation of the professional staff.
Nice to see a little accountability, for a change.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 19, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
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Didn't Sessions fire the guy, in spite of the fact that Sessions has recused himself from the campaign and Russia investigation
How is that swamp draining going?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 19, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 19, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
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Didn't Sessions fire the guy, in spite of the fact that Sessions has recused himself from the campaign and Russia investigation
How is that swamp draining going?
McCabe was fired upon the recommendation of career FBI personnel (not political appointees) for lying his ass off, repeatedly, including under oath.
And Sesssions saved us taxpayers a lot of money by making sure we don't have to pay the inflated pension of some lying jerk.
Not a big fan of Magoo, but he did the right thing here. (And as I understand it no recusal was necessary as the firing was for McCabe's repeated lying, not for any other reason, but that seems like a fine point.)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 19, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
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McCabe was fired upon the recommendation of career FBI personnel (not political appointees) for lying his ass off, repeatedly, including under oath. And Sessions saved us taxpayers a lot of money by making sure we don't have to pay the inflated pension of some lying jerk. Not a big fan of Magoo, but he did the right thing here. (And as I understand it no recusal was necessary as the firing was for McCabe's repeated lying, not for any other reason, but that seems like a fine point.)
Now that's swallowing your pablum!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 19, 2018 - 05:14pm PT
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Agreed....lol
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 19, 2018 - 05:26pm PT
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If McCabe gets another job he can get his retirement. Congressmen lining up to hire him so he will get his pension. Looks like another obstruction charge for the orange sh1t gibbon. Come on Donald, act innocent, hahahaha.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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McCabe hasn't lost his pension.
From Forbes Magazine:
"In fact, McCabe is all of 49 years old, likely 50 by the time readers see this, and what he lost out on was, as CNN much more calmly recounts, the ability to take his benefits at age 50, rather than somewhere between age 57 and age 62, and he lost his eligibility to a special top-up in benefit formula. These are, admittedly, tangible financial losses, but it is grossly misleading that various news outlets are giving the general public the impression that he has lost his pension entirely."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 19, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
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Funny how Trump is gloating over McCabe's firing...So McCabe was fired for lying...? Does this mean Trump , a habitual liar , will suffer the same fate...?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 19, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
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Apparently Mueller gave the Trump lawyers a copy of the questions he will ask Trump. Trump went ballistic when he saw them. Trump is panicking because he just realized how much Mueller knows and how much witnesses have been spilling the beans. Two choices Donnie, lie and fry or tell the truth and fry.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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Boy, the Cambridge Analytica/Facebook fire was roaring today.
The suggestion is that Facebook is going to go down hard over all this.
When the CA/FB/Russia connection to the campaign first came up, I was reminded of something that happened in the late spring of 2016. Back story: Shortly after the fall of USSR, my sister and her husband moved to Russia and lived there for a few years - maybe four. I can't recall exactly.
Anyway they had two children and the boy was like 12 years old at the start of this, so pretty much grew up there. He actually started a punk band which did pretty well, from what I gather.
Sooo....last spring, he posts on Facebook that he has some friend in Russia who will pay people $50 if they can "borrow" the Facebook pages of people. My nephew says they will just be "inserting a few ads into the pages."
I blasted the idea - said it was such a bad idea.... "When you allow someone admin access to your FB page, they can actually take control of it, and lock you out. There's really no "nice" reason someone would pay money to have access.... t's probably to post spam or malware. This is a BD idea...."
Oh, how my nephew got angry at me. He wrote "DON'T f*#k with my income."
I told hi I would delete my post, but that he should think hard before suggesting this to his friends.
An hour later, he had removed he post, and that was the last ever heard about this $50 for access to your page.
Well...... I am fairly certain this was one of the ways the Russian Trolls were able to spread their disinformation. As you may know, it's reported that they trolled under the guise of Americans.
I wonder if we will ever hear about this. You'd think it shouldn't be that hard to get the word out - "Hey - did someone offer you money to post ads on your FB?" and see where that leads.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
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Seems odd that they would give Trump the questions to the interview...That's like showing him the rope that they're going to hang him with...Maybe they were " Fake " questions..?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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It's probably more like "In case you were thinking yu'd come in and bluster with you bigly bulldoo, here's a clue as to where the conversation will be going."
There's no escape for DT; hasn't been for a long, long time. But what is he supposed to say "Okay, now I see what you meant by collusion. My bad." He's probably been told in the early days that he'll get away with it, no problem, that people have his back, so don't worry." It simply didn't occur to him that there were ......lying.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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Frankly these gloating tweets Trump sent out are like what a crazed sixth grader would do.
While I didn't agree with many of the policy choices of Bush/Cheney, I didn't actually think they were megalomanic nutters. I'm starting to think the current occupant of the White House really has some actual mental issues.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
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Actually sending the questions in advance is a good tactic. Mueller probably already knows the answers to the questions, and has evidence to back it up. And when Trump gets asked the question under oath he can not act all confused and not sure about the answer, because he has had time to think about the questions. Mueller is one of the best prosecutors in the country, with a top shelf staff he picked. Trump has no idea of what a buzz saw he is walking into. Art of the deal is not going to help him here.
edit: prosecutor's rule #1 - do not ask a question you do not know the answer to.
Interesting story about Facebook Happie.
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RussianBot
climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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Even after we got outsmarted by people we thought were stupider than we are, we still think we’re smarter than they are! If we’re not too busy approving of ourselves and our friends, take a look at who our president is, and guess again, ‘mericans.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
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Much ado about nothing
This too shall pass
Like a painful turd, maybe
But it will pass
The view elsewhere
Is divine.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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DumbDumbDumb
Read up on what actually happened.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 19, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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You just made that up. That's not a thing. Superpowers are always getting pwndeded
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 19, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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Jon Beck...Any insight on Muellers question list for President Trump...?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 20, 2018 - 12:05am PT
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rj - from what I have been reading Mueller gave Trump a list of topics a couple of months ago and recently gave them initial questions, stating that there would be follow-up questions based on the responses. Apparently there is focus on the Moscow trump tower deal and the Miss universe goings-on. The subpoena to the Trump organization is a good indication that Mueller is taking a close look at Trump finances.
The Comey firing has been added to the list of topics, that would include obstruction of justice.
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Gimp
Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
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Mar 20, 2018 - 08:11am PT
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Giving McCabe another job to maximize his retirement is pretty standard operating procedures among the government elite, or leadership as they like to call themselves. Once you reach a certain level no matter how egregious you crime or act of gross incompetence this is what usually happens. I have testified (you are technically "compelled" to testify) in several actions in the government agency I work in against corrupt members of leadership doing some pretty terrible things. All were removed from their post then transferred to another agency and a created position; or assigned to a "new" project they could work on from home until their retirement was maximized. This has occurred irrespective of which party was running things.
Steve
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 20, 2018 - 08:42am PT
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BPA?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 20, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Thanks Steve/Gimp.
While McCabe's firing can be justified, it's obvious is was a punitive action.
Total d@&che bag move.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 20, 2018 - 09:21am PT
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Thanks Steve/Gimp.
While McCabe's firing can be justified, it's obvious is was a punitive action.
Total d@&che bag move
Ha, I read Gimp's post somewhat differently.
Seems to me there is a long and sordid history of giving incompetent / corrupt high level gov officials pensions they don't deserve. Glad to see that "tradition" come to end with McCabe.
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John M
climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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Not everyone "knows" that McCabe was corrupt. I certainly don't. Because of the ongoing investigations that he was involved in, he hasn't been able to speak up and defend himself.
I have also seen cases of corruption that were protected. People given " jobs" that they could supposedly do from home so that they end up getting their retirement. This is sometimes done because the lawsuits that would happen are extremely expensive and time consuming. And then the outcome isn't always certain. For instance, a friend of mine was the assistant lead school psychologist for a school district. The district wanted to fire a school psychologist for incompetence. It took 2 years of my friend spending 50 percent of her work time to get that done, and then the case was overturned on appeal. So now the district is stuck with an incompetent psychologist while they figure out what to do. They chose to give this psychologist work that could be done from home because the cost and number of lawsuits that the district would have been exposed to do to this persons incompetence was deemed to be too high. From the outside is looks like the school is protecting this person. The reality is the school is protecting the kids and protecting itself from further lawsuits. Sucks that they have to do this. I don't know the solution.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 20, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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Sucks that they have to do this. I don't know the solution.
Gov workers should be like just about every worker in modern America: employees at will. (And the many exceptions to employment at will should be greatly reduced so we're back to the original concept: anyone can get their ass fired anytime for any reason, or no reason at all.)
Why aren't they, you may ask? Basically cuz the we live in a country with huge numbers of gov workers, they always vote Dem (with rare exceptions of course), and the Dems reward them with sweetheart contracts.
Who loses? Just the hardworking non-government employee taxpayers, but who cares about them?
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John M
climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 10:06am PT
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I've also seen it happen in private industry. People literally paid to just go away. Because lawsuits cost a lot and its not always easy to prove ones case.
the case I mentioned above happened in a conservative state with conservative judges.
I do not support your notion that people should be able to be fired at any time for any reason. That would allow corrupt employers to fire people right before they because vested in a retirement program or right as a person entered the steeper part of the curve of retirement benefits. You would have to change the way retirement programs work.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 20, 2018 - 10:59am PT
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Ha, I read Gimp's post somewhat differently.
Seems to me there is a long and sordid history of giving incompetent / corrupt high level gov officials pensions they don't deserve. Glad to see that "tradition" come to end with McCabe.
You might have a point if the Administration clarified they where ending the practice of allowing tarnished employees to stick around for retirement benefits. But no one has implied such a policy.
Also, our President is openly vindictive to anyone who challenges him.
McCabe's firing, two days before turning fifty, was punitive.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Mar 20, 2018 - 11:06am PT
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The claim in that video that Cambridge Analytica has worked under the radar in elections in Argentina has gotten the local papers asking around to see just what they meant. So far it's not at all clear whether it's true or they just said it because it sounds cool and conspiratorial.
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Gimp
Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
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Mar 20, 2018 - 11:13am PT
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Healyje,
assume when you say BPA you me the whole Dupont bisphenol A fiasco.
No I was not part of that but am still an active witness in two cases so cannot say much more as serfs are punished much differently than "leadership".
Steve
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 20, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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Facebook has been plunged into crisis over the allegations that Cambridge Analytica misused data from more than 50 million people to help elect Donald Trump. Nearly $40 billion was wiped off Facebook’s market value Monday, an emergency meeting is due to be held Tuesday morning, and CEO Mark Zuckerberg has been criticized for remaining silent during what some analysts are describing as a threat to the company’s existence.
Zuckerberg has been summoned to the British parliament to give evidence about the how it handles people’s personal data. The head of a British inquiry into ‘fake news,’ Damian Collins, has accused Facebook of previously ‘misleading’ a parliament committee, adding: “It is now time to hear from a senior Facebook executive with the sufficient authority to give an accurate account of this catastrophic failure of process.”
As anger grew toward Cambridge Analytica on Monday after Britain’s Channel 4 broadcast a report showing company executives boasting about their extreme propaganda strategies, including filming opponents in compromising situations with Ukrainian sex workers, authorities in the U.K. and the U.S. also questioned whether Facebook mishandled the alleged breach and it’s now facing damaging investigations that will further tarnish its brand.
Well, to Hillary it was surely still the Russian, yes, and not to forget Bernie...
Fact is, it was all the time Hillary with a little help from Facebook and their "allies"...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 20, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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That was a terrific OP. There are still a lot of blind Trump supporters out there, though. I had to listen to some the other night. It was surreal.
If it were possible to go back in time, and have Obama do and say the things that Trump has said and done, the country would have gone ballistic a lot sooner.
Obama said: (Insert any common Trump lie)
Obama did: (Any Daily Trump action)
Obama would have lost all support from his own party. The Republicans, with a few exceptions, have become accomplices in this farce, and they are going down in the midterms. It will be bloodshed.
If we learn anything, it should be that any future president should be an accomplished politician. Not a reality TV star. I HATE it when I hear the word "elite." It is a weasel word for mindless automatons. An elite is an accomplished person. An elite climber is appreciated. AM radio has made it sound like a cabal, which it isn't. There is no deep state.
George Will, shortly after Trump's elections, when he was lying about his greatest ever electoral college win and other bald lies, said this:
"The American People decided to treat the Presidency as an entry level political position. This is what they get."
George Will is perhaps the brightest conservative voice.
As for our future, if he manages somehow to fire Mueller, I lean only on hope that the Republican majority will do the right thing instead of being silent accomplices to his daily shenanigans.
Trump's presidency will be a nightmare that this country will not forget for a long time. Now I listen to a guy like Kasich, and wonder why he didn't get the nomination......
I agree that his recent behavior, along with full blast cooperation from Hannity and State TV, have given him a false sense of comfort. If you watch Fox right now, they have been willing accomplices in this from the start. Hannity has been screaming at him to fire Mueller for months now. Half of the right now believe that there was some prescient cabal just waiting to drill Trump if he were elected. People aren't that smart. Hiding a conspiracy in this country is virtually impossible.
The tax bill was not bipartisan. I watched the hearing. Orrin Hatch, the committee chair, was the only Republican in the room while various Democrats offered fairly modest and sensible amendments to the bill. Afterwards, the Republicans all showed up within ten minutes of each other and voted down every amendment, even though they hadn't listened to a single one. Then they claimed that they had had hearings.
Right now, CSPAN is the hottest show on TV.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 20, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
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Hiding a conspiracy in this country is virtually impossible.
Another part of the problem is that Trump supporters as most Republicans are willing to accept any conspiracy theory that support the belief they already have. And showing them proof that the theory is wrong will only strengthen their belief in the theory...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 20, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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These are the important things to remember:
economy is doing great,
stock market doing mostly great (yeah a little recent turbulence, but still very good post election),
finally got the North Koreans a little rattled,
some of the stuffed shirts in Washington are getting some well-deserved eye pokes . . .
Yeah Trump comes across as a bit of a goofball, but you can't argue with results.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 20, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
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You forgot con man, traitor and sexual predator. Goof ball is what a true tRumpy cultist would call it.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 20, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
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....Trump comes across as a bit of a goofball .... A BIT of a goofball? He's an amoral, egocentric, incurious, ethic-less, traitorous orange ass.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Mar 20, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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Don't forget
Wealth Inequality at an All time High (thank you 25 years of tax cuts for the rich)
Ecosystem Plundering Surging
Corruption by White House at an All time High
Trade War starting on steel & aluminum with backwards penalties for our allies
Avg IQ dropping due to Irrational faux news by trumpeteers
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 20, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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. . . whore chasing, greedy, disgusting little pervert, worst husband, and pathetic dad . . .
other than that he is a great guy
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
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He's just front man for all the criminals behind him which you st00pid brainwashed politard loons are clueless to.
Get rid of the frontman and those very same criminals behind him will remain.
They are embedded.
You loons are insanely obsessed with this one guy frontman who's there to take all the heat off the real criminals in your usurped American system ......
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Mar 20, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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We are all well aware of the extent to which big industry bribes government, and how donnytrump is only making that corruption worse.
Cohn, formerly the No. 2 at Goldman Sachs, blamed Congress for Trump's failure, and Fox Business reported that Blackstone, Carlyle, and KKR did funnel "massive amounts of campaign cash into the coffers of Republican leaders in the House and the Senate as these same lawmakers voted for a tax bill that preserves the so-called carried interest loophole." But they also cited people "close to the tax bill process" who said "the White House didn't make ending the loophole a priority," citing "Trump's close relationship with Blackstone chief Steve Schwarzman, a key outside economic adviser."
On Fox Business, Trish Regan slammed Trump and his team for allowing "fat cat private equity investors" to keep lower tax rates "than a New York City cop." America's "founding fathers never, ever anticipated a swamp like the one we have today," she said.
http://theweek.com/speedreads/744852/wall-street-titans-seem-have-done-particularly-well-under-final-gop-tax-plan
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Mar 20, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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Most excellent use of adjectives, The Warbler!
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 20, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
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I'll try adverbs to $10, yanqui. Trump is an evil, twisted, self serving, narcissistic, uncaring, serial, bloated lying excuse for a human being. I think I got adverbs right. The verb would be 'lying'.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 20, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
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LOL.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
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The one not from Merced must be Tom
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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Pretty f*#king good locker. Laughing my ass off!!!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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Did ya hear that Trump called Putin to congratulate him on his latest killing?
This ain't your standard KKK meeting.
The nerve of the guy. Enough to novichok you.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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I think I got adverbs right. The verb would be 'lying'.
The verb is "is."
But those are all still excellent adjectives describing Trump.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
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Trump congratulated Putin in spite of the fact that his top advisers gave him a note card that said DO NOT CONGRATULATE PUTIN
Nobody would have learned this minor detail but for the Russians letting the cat out of the bag. That pee pee tape must be a doozy.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
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You are a brainwashed idiot Jon Beck .....
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
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Trump is going down! If their is a pulse in American democracy and belief in our roots, this will happen. What are we, 1930s Germany, Japan, or Italy?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 20, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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nice, real nice
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Mar 20, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
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Cracks in the dam...
Fox News analyst quits, rips network as a “propaganda machine” in letter to colleagues
http://flip.it/v.sMPj
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 20, 2018 - 07:23pm PT
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At this late stage, I haven't much respect for those who are finally realizing they have to escape the Trumpacolypse. I mean, really... It was hunky dory until NOW?
It should have become obvious to anyone with a brain that they could not afford to be associated with this, this, "thing," about a year ago. What were they waiting for?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 20, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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I have wondered why so many folks decided to "hate Hillary."
This breaking news helps to explain that particular "Brainwashing" of so many Americans.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cambridge-analytica-execs-boast-of-role-in-getting-trump-elected/ar-BBKtQMM?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1
Senior executives from the firm at the heart of Facebook’s data breach boasted of playing a key role in bringing Donald Trump to power and said they used “unattributable and untrackable” advertising to support their clients in elections, according to an undercover expose.
In secretly recorded conversations, Cambridge Analytica’s CEO, Alexander Nix, claimed he had met Trump “many times”, while another senior member of staff said the firm was behind the “defeat crooked Hillary” advertising campaign.
“We just put information into the bloodstream of the internet and then watch it grow, give it a little push every now and again over time to watch it take shape,” said the executive. “And so this stuff infiltrates the online community, but with no branding, so it’s unattributable, untrackable.”
Caught on camera by an undercover team from Channel 4 News, Nix was also dismissive of Democrats on the House intelligence committee, who had questioned him over Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign.
Senior managers then appeared to suggest that in their work for US clients, there was planned division of work between official campaigns and unaffiliated “political action groups”.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 20, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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Pretty simple, if you think trump is doing a good job and striving to make the lives of middle class and blue collar families better and more secure then you're a frigging moron and deserve the ass-shagging you're getting from him.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Mar 20, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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Happy, It's not about forgiveness or exoneration- ideologues are bailing from their deepest instincts. These are signs of a bellwether.
Once the loyal pundits, along with the Congressional and Senatorial rats that fill the ranks of Trumps Praetorian guard are sure of his demise, they will jump ship. Be sure that their exit plan has been in place for some time.
I'd like to see Trump drawn and quartered with his fat head on a spike but I expect no such gratification.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 20, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
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Good stuff Tom. Interesting conundrum, the greedy meglomaniac.
Insults from a guy who relies on Veterans Today as a primary source is a badge of honor. Quack on werner
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 20, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
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I am beginning to think that obstruction of justice, not collusion, will bring drumpf down.
also, I am thinking that Stormy Daniels has the goods on him.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 20, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
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As has already been pointed out, if Stormy didn't have something on DT, why wouldn't he be subjecting her to one of his typical Tweet-storms? She must have something pretty lurid to let out of the bag, but probably not on 60-minutes this Sunday. Must be saving it up for a more strategic moment.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 20, 2018 - 11:28pm PT
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I was guessing, Might Hiker, it could be either tiny pathetic penis or even more humiliating - performance failure? A whore generally has no mercy for a client with those two traits.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 21, 2018 - 07:51am PT
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My wife asked why I carry a gun in the house. I replied "government spying". She laughed. I laughed. Alexa laughed. I shot alexa. Good times! ;-)
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Mar 21, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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Classic spin.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 21, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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Even if you can't get around all of Trump's policies or his personality, and hey I have some issues there myself, it's still important to rally around the president for the good of the markets if nothing else.
I think this Mueller investigation may be spooking the markets and at least partly responsible for the recent downturn.
Look at the incredible returns we've had from the election until the recent dip. Who cares if there may have been a little "collusion," if some of Trump's cabinet may have some fine taste in travel and furniture (at the taxpayers' expense), or if the president isn't likely to be nominated for most virtuous person of the year?
Market returns are what we're after and Trump has been a winner so far, so we should support him as long as he can keep delivering the goods!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Mar 21, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
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Mueller is not “spooking”your precious returns,It is the brat who could not organize a rockfight that is responsible for that.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 21, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
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Mighty Hiker: I just had an inspiration regarding what Stormy might have on Trumposaurus and how it relates to the Buzzfeed allegations about his behavior with the whores in the Moscow hotel room. Perhaps the cat that will "Storm" out of the bag is that Sir Donald is indeed a urolagniac! That he likes to see bought women go wee-wee in front of him. Consider that revelation for a moment, especially if some of the other women suing him can confirm it. Smash bang front page news nationwide and worldwide. No wonder DT is avoiding provoking Stormy with nasty tweets.
Best not to have a kink like that if one is POTUS and can be blackmailed for his sexual idiosyncrasies. Think of Donald making the State of the Union Address to Congress while everyone in the room is looking at him, giggling, and imagining him watching young girls pee.
Me thinks this is going to get real good before it's over . . .
Of course, DT is in good company. Seem to recall that Chuck Berry had this same problem. Getting really jaded has its drawbacks I guess . . .
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John M
climber
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Mar 21, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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Even if you can't get around all of Trump's policies or his personality, and hey I have some issues there myself, it's still important to rally around the president for the good of the markets if nothing else.
I think this Mueller investigation may be spooking the markets and at least partly responsible for the recent downturn.
Look at the incredible returns we've had from the election until the recent dip. Who cares if there may have been a little "collusion," if some of Trump's cabinet may have some fine taste in travel and furniture (at the taxpayers' expense), or if the president isn't likely to be nominated for most virtuous person of the year?
Market returns are what we're after and Trump has been a winner so far, so we should support him as long as he can keep delivering the goods!
D-
:not one of your better trolls. Lacks conviction. Infantile at best. try harder please. What would your President think of you? We expect our students here at TROLLS INC to Excel !!! You can do It !!! Make trolling GREAT again !!!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 21, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
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So now it is "stock market performance" that is the real reason to praise Donald Trump?
Really? If market performance is your voting criteria then you voted for Obama.
The stock market as measured by S&P 500 largest companies was up a whopping 233% while President Obama was in office
And the market continued its strong linear rise throughout and very likely would have continued regardless of who became President. The economy turned around from being in a Republican Recession when President Obama took office to being in the longest sustained bull market in US history. To give Trump credit for this is ludicrous.
The rise under Trump was due to the expectation that the Republican controlled congress would cut taxes, thus greatly increasing the profits of the corporations.
That gain is now baked in, and now the fact that the tax cut deprives the treasury of some 1 and half trillion dollars in income, the market can now worry about the national debt and interest payments to our bond and not holders increasing.
Oh how Republicans screamed and cried over the rising national debt, and now when they are in charge they think nothing of exploding the debt by one and half trillion dollars. Hypocrites.
So, just how ignorant are Trump voters really?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 21, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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Norton beat me to it. under blah's theory, not only did Obama create a rising market, he turned a crashed market around first.
If the market crashes are you going to blame the sitting president?
To be clear I do not think the sitting president has real control over the market. Policy decisions have a very remote effect on the markets, and are tough to accurately identify.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 21, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
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If the market crashes are you going to blame the sitting president?
Of course not!!! It'll be Obama's fault. It seems hard for Republicans to remember, with all the 'deep state' FBI bashing, but the FBI sank Hillary in the final days of the election.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 21, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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History will judge, and if Nixon was alive he would be happy to finally have someone to look down on.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 21, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
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regarding what Stormy might have on Trumposaurus and how it relates to the Buzzfeed allegations about his behavior with the whores in the Moscow hotel room. Perhaps the cat that will "Storm" out of the bag is that Sir Donald is indeed a urolagniac! That he likes to see bought women go wee-wee in front of him.
Ummm, no. Besides - that's BARELY even kinky.
Rumor surrounding IC says it is nothing so light. What it is said to be is forced sex with underage girls sold into into sexwork slavery, with an accidental death of one of the girls.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 21, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
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Rumor surrounding IC says it is nothing so light. What it is said to be is forced sex with underage girls sold into into sexwork slavery, with an accidental death of one of the girls.
So the theory is Stormy knew all about this but decided to take Trump's lawyer's money rather than disclose it to the authorities? Sounds like a real class act.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 21, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
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Rumor surrounding IC says it is nothing so light. What it is said to be is forced sex with underage girls sold into into sexwork slavery, with an accidental death of one of the girls.
Bet there are pimps in Richmond, California with heavier charges against them that those. Still, if true (which I rather doubt), DT has moved into the big leagues.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 21, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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So the theory is Stormy knew all about this but decided to take Trump's lawyer's money rather than disclose it to the authorities? Sounds like a real class act.
I have never heard Stormy Daniels mentioned in relation to underage girls and DT.
Bet there are pimps in Richmond, California with heavier charges against them that those. Still, if true (which I rather doubt), DT has moved into the big leagues.
1) While it's disgusting and frightening to imagine ANY man sexually brutalizing a person to the point they are killed, generally we don't expect to have a president of the country behave that way.
2) Why do you "rather doubt" it? FWIW, the sources where I have read this have been correct on just about every detail that has come out with regard to the Trumpocalypse. And well ahead of it being reported on usual news outlets.
3) What do you mean "moved into the big leagues?" Usually one would use that phrase in relationship with an accomplishment. Killing a child, while raping her, doesn't fall into that category. Unless your a very sick individual.
4) You are aware, I hope, that teenaged girls, and boys, are DAILY - in THIS country - being manipulated into being trafficked as sex workers, aren't you?
If an average Joe Schmoe has no compunction about screwing a child, and seems oblivious to the connection of that child working in the sex trade being....wrong...what makes you think that rich men who like power wouldn't pay money to beat the hell out of them? This is part of what makes the Russian mob so sinister. They will do A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G to make money.(edit) And they will stoop to any depth to compromise and control someone.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 21, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
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The history of Trump sexual assaults
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/nov/30/donald-trump-sexual-misconduct-allegations-full-list
He was like an octopus … His hands were everywhere.”
Jessica Leeds
Age 38 Year: 1980s Location: A first-class cabin of a plane
Leeds alleges Trump groped grabbed her breasts and tried to put his hand up her skirt. Source: The New York Times
"I referred to this as a ‘rape’, but I do not want my words to be interpreted in a literal or criminal sense."
Ivana Trump
Age 40 Year: 1989 Location: The master bedroom of the Trump Tower triplex
In a divorce deposition, Trump's first wife used "rape" to describe an incident that transpired between them. After a settlement was reached, and the rape allegation became public in a 1993 book, Ivana softened the claim. As part of her nondisclosure agreement, she is not allowed to discuss her marriage to Trump without his permission. Source: Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J Trump
“He pushed me up against the wall, and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again.”
Jill Harth
Age Early 30s Year: 1993 Location: One of the children's bedrooms at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate
A former business partner, Harth alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips and groped her breasts and grabbed her genitals, in what she referred to in a 1997 lawsuit as "attempted rape". On a previous occasion, she alleges, he groped her under the table during dinner with colleagues at the Plaza Hotel. Source: The Guardian
"He did touch my vagina through my underwear."
Kristen Anderson
Age Early 20s Year: Early 1990s Location: China Club, a Manhattan nightclub
Anderson alleges Trump put his hand up her skirt and touched her genitals through her underwear. Source: The Washington Post
“[Trump] stuck his head right underneath their skirts.”
Lisa Boyne
Age 25 Year: 1996 Location: A New York restaurant
Boyne alleges Trump insisted the female models walk across the table and that he looked up their skirts, commenting on whether they were wearing underwear and their genitalia. Source: The Huffington Post
“He took my hand, and grabbed me, and went for the lips.”
Cathy Heller
Age 44 Year: 1997 Location: A Mother’s Day brunch at Mar-a-Lago
Heller alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips in public. Source: The Guardian
“He kissed me directly on the lips."
Temple Taggart
Age 21 Year: 1997 Location: A 1997 Miss USA pageant event and in Trump Tower
The former Miss Utah alleges Trump forcibly kissed her on the mouth on two occassions, including the first time she met him. Source: The New York Times
"I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, 'Oh my God, there’s a man in here.'"
Mariah Billado
Age 18 Year: 1997 Location: Backstage at the 1997 Miss Teen USA pageant
The former Miss Vermont Teen USA and other unnamed accusers allege Trump walked into the dressing room unannounced while teen beauty queens aged 15 to 19 were naked. Source: BuzzFeed
"Then his hand touched the right side of my breast. I was in shock."
Karena Virginia
Age 27 Year: 1998 Location: Waiting for a car after the US Open in New York
Virginia alleges Trump grabbed her arm and touched her breast. Source: Gloria Allred press event
“The time that he walked through the dressing rooms was really shocking. We were all naked.”
Bridget Sullivan
Age 19 Year: 2000 Location: Backstage at the 2000 Miss USA pageant
The former Miss New Hampshire alleges Trump walked in to the dressing room unannounced while contestants were naked. Source: BuzzFeed
"Our first introduction to him was when we were at the dress rehearsal and half-naked changing into our bikinis.”
Tasha Dixon
Age 19 Year: 2001 Location: Backstage at the 2001 Miss USA pageant
The former Miss Arizona alleges Trump entered dressing rooms while her fellow contestants were "half-naked". Source: CBS News
“All of a sudden I felt a grab, a little nudge."
Melinda McGillivray
Age 23 Year: 2003 Location: At Mar-a-Lago during a concert by Ray Charles
McGillivray alleges Trump grabbed her buttock in a pavilion behind the main house in the middle of a group of people. Source: Palm Beach Post
"I was thinking ‘Oh, he’s going to hug me’, but when he pulled my face in and gave me a smooch. I was like ‘Oh – kay.’"
Jennifer Murphy
Age 26 Year: 2005 Location: Outside an elevator after an interview
The former contestant on The Apprentice alleges Trump forcibly kissed her after a job interview.
“[Trump] kissed me directly on the mouth.”
Rachel Crooks
Age 22 Year: 2005 Location: Outside the elevator in Trump Tower
Crooks alleges Trump kissed her forcibly on the lips. Source: New York Times
"I turned around, and within seconds he was pushing me against the wall and forcing his tongue down my throat."
Natasha Stoynoff
Age 40 Year: 2005 Location: A closed-door room in Mar-a-Lago
Stoynoff alleges Trump forcibly kissed her. Source: People
“Trump stood right next to me and suddenly he squeezed my butt."
Ninni Laaksonen
Age 20 Year: 2006 Location: Outside the Ed Sullivan Theater before an appearance on The Late Show with David Letterman
The former Miss Finland alleges Trump grabbed her buttocks during a photoshoot before an appearance on The Late Show with David Letterman. Source: Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat
"When we entered the room he grabbed each of us tightly in a hug and kissed each of us on the lips without asking for permission."
Jessica Drake
Age 32 Year: 2006 Location: A golf tournament in Lake Tahoe
Drake alleges Trump forcibly kissed her and two female friends on the lips and when rebuffed, pursued her, asking: "How much?" Source: Gloria Allred press event
"He would step in front of each girl and look you over from head to toe like we were just meat, we were just sexual objects, that we were not people."
Samantha Holvey
Age 20 Year: 2006 Location: Miss USA 2006 pageant
The former Miss North Carolina alleges Trump would barge into the pageant dressing room and inspected women like "meat". Source: CNN
“He then grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again very aggressively and placed his hand on my breast."
Summer Zervos
Age Early 30s Year: 2007 Location: Trump Tower and a hotel in Los Angeles
The former contestant on The Apprentice has accused Trump of groping and kissing her on two occasions. She has filed a defamation claim against the now-president. Source: Gloria Allred press event
“He probably doesn’t want me telling the story about that time he continually grabbed my ass and invited me to his hotel room.”
Cassandra Searles
Age 24 Year: 2013 Location: Miss USA 2013 pageant
The former Miss Washington 2013 alleges in a comment on Facebook that Trump repeatedly grabbed her buttocks and invited her to his hotel room. Source: Facebook, via Yahoo News
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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The second rule of CIA-style is don't draw attention to yourself when doing it CIA-style.
Trump and his henchmen might have gotten away with their prior crimes, if they hadn't attracted public scrutiny to themselves. They're like small-town bank robbers who are suddenly driving around in Ferraris.
Probably the best example, so far, is Paul Manafort. He was just some low-rent political operative conducting shady business on behalf of Putin in the Ukraine. Then, he became Trump's campaign manager, and became a primary focus of election investigations. He is now facing 300 years in prison for crimes unrelated to his time with Trump, and will probably be indicted for campaign-related crimes, too.
Jared Kushner's fraudulent real estate dealings would probably have gone unnoticed, if he hadn't photo-bombed himself into every Oval Office picture of the past 15 months. The NYC Department of Buildings is now compelled to conduct a full investigation into Kushner's prior business in the city.
Of course, Trump is the king of hubris, wearing an imaginary invisibility cloak. He has lived his entire adult life in the headlines, actively pushing himself on reporters. Suddenly, though, he thinks his past is unknowable, and that nobody will ever find out what he has done. He condemns his past to a magical memory-hole by chanting, "FAKE NEWS!"
It's not working.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 21, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
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OK, Trump's a pig. Sounds like a whole lotta groping.
Where was everyone, when women (Clinton supporters) were coming forward, accusing President Clinton of RAPE?
"You better put some ice on that?"
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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The Fox News mantra, "But, what about . . . . .?" is the most primitive and childish distraction mechanism on TV today.
Fox News has made But-What-Aboutism the de facto standard of their their so-called reporting. Their viewers aren't educated enough to know that even the ancient Greeks were able to see through that kind of false logic.
Just because Clinton was a pig doesn't give Trump permission to be a pig. If that were true, to any degree at all, Trump would be invoking Harvey Weinstein on twitter and on TV.
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Trump starts claiming that the sexual misconduct allegations are the fault of Harvey Weinstein, who is the real villain in the various Trump sex scandals ("that guy ruined it for everybody else").
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 21, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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I well remember the Clinton times, and saying what a pig he was. And yes - many people said "His personal life has nothing to do with his ability to be president."
Bill Clinton was definitely a sex addict. He was also a hanger-arounder of that Epstein dude(as was Donald Trump), who was actually arrested for sex with minors, if I recall right.
But bringing up Bill Clinton, as his actions pertain to Donald Trump, is a little bit like if someone chose the name of one of the guys on this site who has been accused of rape, and pointing a finger at him.
Yeah - ALL BAD MEN.
But only one of them is currently our president.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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Here's one from the Way Back Machine, for those old enough to remember Clinton:
I'm sorry that I inserted a cigar into Chelsea's proxy, and then smoked it down.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 21, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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Clinton was last President in 2001 (Space Odyssey?)
Anyway Trump is stupid and hires even more stupid people to work for him.
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RussianBot
climber
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Mar 21, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
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Which of those allegations came out after we moral leaders elected him to be our president?
Sure it’s entertaining, and yes it repulses me, and no doubt in our mind’s eye we see it as a bull’s last stand.
And Trump is still president. And we’re still feeding Facebook (and supertopo?) the data for the next information weapon. 50 million users data went into electing Trump. Me? You? Surely not we moral leaders.
I had to laugh watching Zuckerbergs interview today. Who could have possibly foreseen that this data might fall into the wrong hands? When someone makes a commitment to not misuse the data, he said, he doesn’t know about us, but he trusts them!
Right. No way Trump could possibly win this election, with we moral leaders doing our moral thing. Sure, moral. OK. How could we possibly have seen this coming?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 21, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
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Forget the womanizing, the real corruption lies with Kushner trying to start a war against Qatar because they denied his family a loan. Just breaking is a story about Nader and Brody influence pedaling for U.A.E.
It will be huge, Mueller is on it, Nader got immunity so he has good beta.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2018 - 10:26pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jared Kushner may prove to be the most dangerous character in the Trump pandaeon. He certainly is a sneaky guy who can't keep his security clearance application fiction straight.
The Kushner family has direct ties to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister. When Jared was in Israel last year, Netanyahu lauded him with, What A Guy.
Kushner pushed Trump to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, which was a highly dangerous and irresponsible thing to do. UN Ambassador Nikki Haley doubled-down on that, saying, "It's what the American people want", which is exactly what the Palestinians see as a big problem: Americans arrogantly impressing their pro-Israeli bias upon them.
Jared Kushner and his family have relatives in Israel that engage in corruption and bribery as a normal course of doing business. Jared's business ties to them violate the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, regardless of whether or not he engaged in any corrupt activity himself.
Special Counsel Mueller didn't hesitate to indict Paul Manfort for money laundering that was unrelated to Trump. Jared Kushner is next in line at the loading chute, and will soon meet the man with the steel snippers.
EDIT:
I did a double-take when I saw this headline:
TV personality known for playing Bozo the Clown dies
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 21, 2018 - 11:02pm PT
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What do you mean "moved into the big leagues?" Usually one would use that phrase in relationship with an accomplishment. Killing a child, while raping her, doesn't fall into that category. Unless your a very sick individual.
I meant that there are pimps in Richmond who have done far worse than that. There are people in the sex trade who routinely live absolutely despicable lives.
Haven't heard anything to the effect that DT actually killed an underaged girl while having sex with her. If that's the case, this is going to morph into a criminal case quite quickly, isn't it? If the allegation is true, that is.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:16am PT
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spending time focusing on trump is kind of like focusing in on a kernel of corn thinking maybe that’s what caused your last diarrhea shItfest...
cause let’s see... there’s trump... then there’s pence... then there is ryan... and then turtleman... and then a whole one side of congress filled with snivelling sycophants backing the whole shIt show.
and on the other side of the congress you’ve got screams of RUSSIA11111!!!11!1; of EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE111!1!1!111; of STORMY111!1!1!111!; or of whatever the talking point du hour being spewed down by the talking heads that rain down from the sky is...
but what pray tell is the democrat’s plan?
while i still posit the smart money is in trump being gone around this summer [as i’ve now argued for the last year] still the whole charade is just a distraction...
without a plan that goes beyond the BENGHAZI111!1!1!111 like obsession that the u.s. centre right [aka the “left”] is currently indulging in...
well... it’s just the political entertainment complex’s contribution to fulfilling the latter part of the good ole bread and mother fUcking circuses portion of the common law contract that those in power have with the plebs...
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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Exactly Nah000.
Politards are idiots .....
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:57am PT
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Jared Kushner may prove to be the most dangerous character in the Trump pandaeon. He certainly is a sneaky guy who can't keep his security clearance application fiction straight.
that dude is a creepy looking guy. He's got that permanent smirk on his face.
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chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
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Mar 22, 2018 - 08:00am PT
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Even if you can't get around all of Trump's policies or his personality, and hey I have some issues there myself, it's still important to rally around the president for the good of the markets if nothing else.
Dumbass.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Mar 22, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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Robert F. Kennedy
April 5, 1968
When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies - to be met not with cooperation but with conquest, to be subjugated and mastered...
We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of all. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 22, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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The Trump Crime Family is now the head of State
The Donald is nothing more than bully crime boss that scammed his way to the top
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 22, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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From the New York Times......
The president’s lead lawyer for the special counsel investigation, John Dowd, resigned on Thursday, according to two people briefed on the matter, days after the president called for an end to the inquiry. When your lawyers start quitting...... you've got a problem.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 22, 2018 - 08:50am PT
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Ted Olson told Trump to FOAD when asked to join his legal team. Olson is one of the best
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 22, 2018 - 09:28am PT
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TV personality known for playing Bozo the Clown dies
Larry Harmon was the real Bozo. Although Willard Scott spent a few years in that lucrative gig.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 22, 2018 - 09:52am PT
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^^^^
the point being that the best lawyers are telling Trump to FOAD when asked to represent him.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 22, 2018 - 10:05am PT
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but what pray tell is the democrat’s plan?
Haven't you been paying attention? Alabama. Pennsylvania.
the Dems take back the Congress, providing a brake on the actions of the President, with the possibility of removal from office if the right stuff emerges.
With the majority, comes the power of hearings and subpoena, which the Repubs have suppressed to their benefit.
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chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
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Mar 22, 2018 - 10:10am PT
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tiny pathetic penis or even more humiliating - performance failure? A whore generally has no mercy for a client with those two traits.
Bruce Morris - How do you know this?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 10:33am PT
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Haven't heard anything to the effect that DT actually killed an underaged girl while having sex with her. If that's the case, this is going to morph into a criminal case quite quickly, isn't it? If the allegation is true, that is.
Yes, it's quite clear you have no intention of accepting this as a possible thing that actually happened.
Do I know it for a fact? No, I do not, of course. But as I have said many times over this last year - the people where I have been getting "Trumpocalyspe" information on, have been shown to be correct, and ahead of mainstream media reporting, often by months. On pretty much every single facet of the entire mess. This part of the story was one facet that came out over the whole "pee pee tape" saga. But what the hell - people laughed off the possibility that Trump campaign had anything to do with Russian election manipulation all the way up until about a week ago....and I had been reading the sources of THAT reporting way back LAST MARCH.
So, spare me the patronizing text.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:05am PT
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Stormy will say they had sex several times in and around 2006 while he was married. That in itself is still quite a revelation, but considering she had previously described sex with Donald as “vanilla” I doubt any kinky or weird beans will be spilled.
And Willard as Bozo is creepy.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:11am PT
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I bet The Donald killed Vince Foster, too.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:18am PT
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No, but remember when Trump threw out the new Kennedy assassination theory?
I think Trump was the second gun man...
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:19am PT
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After seeing that photo, I think Willard Scott killed Vince foster.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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Just a REMINDER to the TRUMP lovers...
TRUMP likes to be PEE'd on...
So he's perfect for you ALL...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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Of course, Trump is the king of hubris, wearing an imaginary invisibility cloak. He has lived his entire adult life in the headlines, actively pushing himself on reporters. Suddenly, though, he thinks his past is unknowable, and that nobody will ever find out what he has done. He condemns his past to a magical memory-hole by chanting, "FAKE NEWS!"
It's not working.
Seems to be working so far.
the Dems take back the Congress, providing a brake on the actions of the President, with the possibility of removal from office if the right stuff emerges.
In the House maybe. But Dems aren't likely to have 2/3 of the Senate.
I could see Trump firing Mueller and/or some report with all the "right" stuff coming out and R's saying "so what" and go on supporting Trump.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 22, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
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I well remember the Clinton times, and saying what a pig he was. And yes - many people said "His personal life has nothing to do with his ability to be president."
Bill Clinton was definitely a sex addict. He was also a hanger-arounder of that Epstein dude(as was Donald Trump), who was actually arrested for sex with minors, if I recall right.
That a married politician is sleeping around doesn't automatically bother me. Now if a male politician goes on and on about family values and gets caught paying a male prostitute for sex, yes they should be hammered for that.
That Bill Clinton was a womanizer didn't bother me. I did figure it was mostly between him and Hillary.
At the time, the media didn't really take the sexual harrassment charges against him seriously and neither did I. In retrospect the charges against him and a lot of other people should have been taken more seriously. That society is now doing so is a positive change.
I think the sexual harrassment charges against Trump should be taken seriously. Although if I was going to make a list of the top 20 reasons why Trump should be impeached, I doubt it would make the list.
Although the fact that Trump has paid hush money to women is really troubling and that might make the list for reasons for impeachment. Hush money opens up the possibility of blackmail. Given that Trump doesn't seem to have a problem with paying hush money, how much more hush money has Trump paid that we don't know about? Who is able to ask for political favors as a result of that?
I hope Mueller sheds some light on all of that.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:29pm PT
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Although the fact that Trump has paid hush money to women is really troubling and that might make the list for reasons for impeachment. Hush money opens up the possibility of blackmail. Given that Trump doesn't seem to have a problem with paying hush money, how much more hush money has Trump paid that we don't know about? Who is able to ask for political favors as a result of that?
I hope Mueller sheds some light on all of that.
DITTO!
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
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Stormy will say they had sex several times in and around 2006 while he was married. That in itself is still quite a revelation, but considering she had previously described sex with Donald as “vanilla” I doubt any kinky or weird beans will be spilled.
I believe that another divorce is in trump's future.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
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I believe that creating market instability by raising tariffs at the same time he's being sued by these women will be what really brings Trump down. But a nasty divorce in the middle of all of this could be the icing on the cake.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
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We’re stuck with him until at least 2020. Republicans will not do anything to oppose him, they’re too scared of his base.
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RussianBot
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
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The guy is going down fast. His approval rating just went up to 40%. No way that guy can get elected!
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 22, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
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Bruce Morris - How do you know this?
You can learn a lot about the world by cultivating friendships with and interviewing whores. They know a whole lot about the world they don't teach you in graduate school.
When they complain that you're "too rough" that means they're no good and lazy.
Try it. You'll like it!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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Trump's attorney Michael Cohen will wish he had quit a long time ago.
Cohen is claiming that he acted on his own when he formed the LLC, paid Stormy Daniels and wrote up the NDA. He says Trump knew nothing of what was going on, and that Trump was not his client in that situation. He said he did it all on his own, for his own personal reasons.
That means that Cohen can't plead attorney-client privilege, and can be indicted along with everybody else. Trump's latest move, to personally sue Daniels in Federal court, directly contradicts Cohen's fictitious narrative. Trump is flailing around so uncontrollably, he is feeding his own lawyers to Mueller.
A Scorched Earth Policy normally involves burning the opponent's resources to starve him into submission. In Trump's abnormal world, his Scorched Earth Policy is to burn his own resources, to distract attention away from himself.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 22, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
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Anyone with that many lawyers must be guilty of something..
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 22, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
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Dang.
Now he's replaced McMaster with uber-hawk and neocon John Bolton. Somehow I don't feel safer.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 22, 2018 - 03:56pm PT
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Bolton is damn scary
Can we agree on one thing, worst president ever? Too bad selecting the safest rappel system is not as easy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
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This is not good.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
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it's not an image, it's a movie
{}
Now it might piss off Warbler, but I'd rather see Michelle Obama kick Trump's punk ass.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 22, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
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He's draining the swamp. Few of his Fire-ees will have those powerful positions offered to them again. Think about it. I wouldn't vote for the clown but the verdict is still out on the outcome.
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RussianBot
climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
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The playboy model who had an affair with him says that Trump compared her to Ivanka! And that he offered to pay her afterwards.
This thing is a gold mine. I can’t wait until it goes into reruns. I wonder how high his approval rating will climb now?
We might have it backwards. We’re f*#ked. He’s not.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Mar 22, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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Yeah, Bolton being back in the administration is scary. He was one of the ones who wanted us to keep going after "liberating" Iraq to "liberate" Iran. Fortunately there were enough sane people in the Bush II administration to prevent that. This time, who knows?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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"Take my advice you'd be better off dead"
Did Bolton say that to Cheney?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
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*Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence
by David Benatar
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
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So if Trump is in his happy place in the afternoon sun, where is Nicolas Maduro? The former
bus driver will shortly mark the fifth anniversary of the start of his driving his nation to the brink. If you bought $100 worth of bolivars then your $100 investment would now be worth...
one cent
Keep the change.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow... I guess we'll see.
They're tweeting about the fact that Guccifer 2.0, having been proven to actually have been a high-level Russian Intelligence Officer(and not the amatuer hacker which he was portrayed to be), and that some of Trump campaigners accepted information from him.
I'm just ready for it to stop, already. What a f*#ked up place we're in. Who could have guessed the internet would take us down these roads, back in the day when we would listen to the buzzing of modems and the "You've got mail!" alerts?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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It’s only Thursday. Much more to come.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 22, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
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Msnbc is reporting the Gucifer news now, we are on the brink of some bad sh1t happening. Mattis and Kelly are the only sane ones left, and Kelly is about to get tossed under the bus.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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This thing is a gold mine. I can’t wait until it goes into reruns. I wonder how high his approval rating will climb now?
The Trumpman Show has been running non-stop since the late 1970s, and has always been a gold mine. The episodes ran the gamut from reopening a decrepit NYC hotel, to the mistress Marla Maples boasting about "The Best Sex Of My Life". All of it was out there for everyone to see before the election, but apparently they didn't have Google in the Midwest back then.
What we are seeing, right now, are reruns of episodes that first ran in 2006. Pretty soon, we'll see reruns of episodes from 2010-2014 that show dirty money coming from you-know-where being laundered through expensive NYC tower apartments coming from you-know-who.
Approval ratings and viewer ratings are two different things. Nobody approved of Charles Manson, but everybody tuned in to see what would happen to him.
Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow
Investigator Mueller's new TV show should be called Friday Night Indicts.
He pulls some names out of a MAGA hat, and Friday night indicts them.
Fearful of losing his position of power, he systematically eliminated those closest to himself.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 22, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
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This is too f*#king weird. I wake up in the morning, every morning, wondering what happened while I slept; how much lower can he go? I never imagine the depths that are possible. I've been trying to formulate some sort of response to this, but can't just be a single weirdo standing in the street with a sign. Maybe I should be, don't know. Our Constitution says the president has to get approval from Congress before declaring war; this check has been eroded (quite) a bit. Is there any hope rational minds will prevail? What do the Russians have on the Trumpster? Never thought our president would be the agent of our destruction. Bolton? Holy sh#t.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 22, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
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Yep!
Per Stevep's mention of the news:
Now he's replaced McMaster with uber-hawk and neocon John Bolton. Somehow I don't feel safer.
CBS is advertising they will be featuring "Porn-Star" Stormy Daniels on 60 Minutes this Sunday. She will be interviewed about her brief sexual-relationship with Trump, (while he was married) and all the schist she went through, when she decided to publicize it.
Of course Trump would create his own distraction to that bad news by firing another cabinet member & hiring someone that is perhaps crazier than our "felon in chief."
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 22, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
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Mattis and Kelly are the only sane ones left, and Kelly is about to get tossed under the bus. If Kelly goes, look for Bannon to return.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
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Stormy Daniels has said little, or nothing, about her affair with Trump. I haven't seen everything, but she seems cagey about letting the story come from somewhere other than herself.
The WSJ broke the story about the hush-money payment in January 2017. A few days later, In Touch magazine published a Stormy Daniels interview from 2011. Her friends, such as another porn star whom Trump propositioned with a five-figure fee as if she was a prostitute, have been going public with what they know. Stormy Daniels went on Jimmy Kimmel Live and didn't say anything about the affair, despite Kimmel's attempts to elicit confirmation about lurid details from the In Touch magazine interview.
Daniels' attorney has probably instructed her to not violate the NDA, until such time that the courts render it invalid. She can talk and talk and talk, but not about the affair itself.
From my position here in the cheap seats, it sure looks like her attorney has his act together, and that he is going to be mopping the floor with Trump, Cohen, and Co.
EDIT:
A contract in furtherance of an illegal purpose (e.g. violation of campaign finance laws) is inherently invalid.
SDFTW
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 22, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
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Sorry, but I just have to check in on the Crazy Show from time to time. You guys are priceless--and so in the know! I hear y'all have it "on good authority" this time. Well done.
Awwwww heck, let's just swear in Pence, already! Man, I wish I still ate popcorn.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 22, 2018 - 11:09pm PT
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At this point I cry uncle, Pence would be an improvement.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2018 - 01:06am PT
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Trump looks like he wants to go down as the MAD President: the Mutually-Assured Destruction President.
Or, perhaps more appropriately, the Mexican Standoff President.
He's like a suicide bomber in a crowd with his finger on the button, warning the authorities to keep their distance.
This is how Trump will be remembered:
NEVER AGAIN!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 23, 2018 - 01:20am PT
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Might as well have elected Gilligan.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Mar 23, 2018 - 01:36am PT
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Maybe, at least Gilligan had the Skipper to smack him on the head every once-in-awhile.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 23, 2018 - 02:55am PT
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Trump's nominees still must be approved by congress. Wonder if they'll exercise their responsibility wisely?
Not Bolton.
National security advisor does not require Senate confirmation.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Mar 23, 2018 - 05:43am PT
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As Christian, white male dominance slips away, the fear and loathing of those in the lower social strata is at a crescendo. Their fervor is stoked by like minded corporatist and wannabe oligarchs through multiple media platforms.
Instead of quietly accepting a diminished yet co-equal role in society, Trump is their nihilistic supernova. Archie Bunker lost his job and grabbed a gun.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 23, 2018 - 06:21am PT
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Gilligan was a decent person.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 23, 2018 - 06:43am PT
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no, this can happen again
some 60 million adults, not children, voted to make a Reality TV person President
including a good number who post on SuperTopo, you know who they are
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Mar 23, 2018 - 06:47am PT
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Know Me by My Name
Some people thinks it’s lame
But you’ll know me by my name
I’m Gilligan, your president
I’ll always be the same
So know me by my name
-Calm Da Fookdown
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 23, 2018 - 07:17am PT
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Um, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura?
The OranguChump was well known before reality tv.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 23, 2018 - 07:25am PT
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Arnold actually did a decent job as governor
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Mar 23, 2018 - 07:58am PT
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The ins and outs of Gilligan’s Island...here we go
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 23, 2018 - 08:01am PT
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 23, 2018 - 11:09am PT
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no, this can happen again
some 60 million adults, not children, voted to make a Reality TV person President
including a good number who post on SuperTopo, you know who they are
I agree it can happen again and democrats shouldn't assume that angry out-of-touch with reality populists can only come from the right.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Mar 23, 2018 - 11:22am PT
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The premise of the OP is that Trump is the bull. Maybe Trump is the guy in tight pants who is going to kill the bull, after torturing it in a spectacular fashion for a while.
The role of the bull is being played by the dignity of American democracy.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 23, 2018 - 11:23am PT
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I think the "it can happen again" idea springs from a denial that the election was manipulated.
Had one simple rule which is implemented in "election messaging" for other media been in place with the internet messaging - that the payer of the message is known and shown - the manipulation campaign would have been much less successful.
Yes, we were duped. But I do believe a good number of GOP pols were kind of stuck, once DT became nominee. I mean - in early 2016 - would any of us have thought that it was possible that much of our social media experience was going to be manipulated?
If the angry white males would have actually known that there were NOT a hundred more just like them within a few miles, would they have been THAT willing to foment the hate?
Honestly - much as I rely on the internet, I really feel that it is a dangerous thing. I am just so tired..... I don't trust what I see anymore- and yes, it has absolutely occurred to me that all along Trump might actually be being maligned. I don't THINK that's the case, but I just don't know what to believe is truth anymore, when it comes to media. Relying on common sense, when we are seeing an all out spy epic saga before our eyes - is terrifying to me. And I have ALWAYS been able to trust my instincts.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 23, 2018 - 12:32pm PT
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exactly, Econ
Republican politicians and their voters say they hate "big government"
oh so intrusive big government is in the private lives of Americans they say
except of course when Republicans want to pass sweeping Federal laws flat out ordering every woman in the country to give birth to babies they do not want
AMNESIA - go back to election day of 2007, Obama V McCain
the US is in the grips of a Recession, 700,000 job losses reported a month
10 million Americans have lost their jobs
and yet the faithful came out, unashamed, and voted, again, to continue the same policies that lead to the Recession, they voted for John McCain
We are living, real time, in the movie Idiocracy
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 23, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
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Dangerous, but still just a distraction, yes....
What surprises me most, is that few Americans are able to see how destructive the system is. Few Americans are able to see beyond the individual. This blindness is stunning...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 23, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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Wade, what the hell is that picture about? I'm scratching my head...... it's interesting but......?
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 23, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
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"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.
Conversely, highly competent individuals may erroneously assume that tasks easy for them to perform are also easy for other people to perform, or that other people will have a similar understanding of subjects that they themselves are well-versed in.
As described by social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Mar 23, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
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As far as I can tell, there are two kinds of people in this world:
Those who know that Trump is a toxic nightmare for our country--and those who will know it soon enough.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 23, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
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tRump is a Russian stooge. Anyone that supports him is complicit in tearing down America.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 23, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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@UnHappieGrrrl2 Say: Mar 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow... I guess we'll see.
They're tweeting about the fact that Guccifer 2.0, having been proven to actually have been a high-level Russian Intelligence Officer(and not the amatuer hacker which he was portrayed to be), and that some of Trump campaigners accepted information from him.
Oh dear, did Ms Rachael and Mr Lemon and Herr O'Donnell get all y'all stirred up about fake again? Ever feel like you're just being played?? :-0
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Mar 23, 2018 - 10:53pm PT
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Some impotent anonymous coward, who tries to compensate by nicknaming himself after a mega tsunami spewed thusly:
@UnHappieGrrrl2 Say: Mar 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
Word in the Twittersphere is there is likely to be some big indictments tomorrow... I guess we'll see.
They're tweeting about the fact that Guccifer 2.0, having been proven to actually have been a high-level Russian Intelligence Officer(and not the amatuer hacker which he was portrayed to be), and that some of Trump campaigners accepted information from him.
Oh dear, did Ms Rachael and Mr Lemon and Herr O'Donnell get you all stirred up about fake again? Ever feel like you're just being played?? :-0
https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-slipped-up-and-revealed-he-was-a-russian-intelligence-officer?ref=home
I know the trumpies only believe what they get from their Breitbart, Daily Caller and DT’s twitterants bubble, but this is real—prove it wrong or shut your slimy dooshnozzle.
(edit) Take another viagra and try to jack off thinking what a great internet warrior you are.
v v v v v
(edit x2) An anonymous overcompensating coward with a derisive and condescending tone and no content—that’s all you’ve got—all hat and no cattle. You don’t have to like the source, just prove the story wrong.
v v v v v
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 23, 2018 - 10:56pm PT
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LMAO! At you.
The Daily Beast? Well, I suppose--as long as HuffPo, Daily Kos, MSNBC, CNN, and Mother Jones all concur. . .
I believe it. That settles it!
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 23, 2018 - 11:34pm PT
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You don’t have to like the source, just prove the story wrong.
Thanks for short-handing why the thought of you turds in charge again is so terrifying.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Mar 23, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
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You don’t have to like the source, just prove the story wrong.
Thanks for short-handing why the thought of you turds in charge again is so terrifying.
Wow! How did you get here from there? Some pretty fvcked up sh!t in your little mind to equate progressives with Maoist execution tribunals. You need professional help—now.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 23, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
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xCon wrote:
Trump's voters are conservatives on political steroids. They are the leading edge of a Republican Party and broader conservative movement that since the late 1960s has become increasingly extreme, reactionary, racist and hostile to democracy.
There is nothing "normal" about Trump's political movement or his voters. This moment is a perilous outlier in modern American history. The country's democracy and future are in peril.
You can see in retrospect how all this started when zealots from Barry Goldwater's failed presidential bid in 1964 confronted the social changes initiated by the anti-war civil rights movements in the late 1960s/early 1970s. But this just isn't political metaphysics. It has a distinct economic dimension and coincides with the beginning of the decline of the American standard of living at least for the middle classes. The sane literate center is just losing its clout.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 24, 2018 - 12:46am PT
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Also on Friday, the departing national security adviser, General McMaster, bid farewell to the staff of the National Security Council. Staff members gave him a three-minute standing ovation, and there was talk of an exodus of career officials. Some were stunned by the sudden change in leadership, even though General McMaster’s status with Mr. Trump was known to have been shaky for weeks.
So, having tremendously damaged the State Dept through the neglect of Tillerson, and the upcoming purges by the new guy......we move onto the pillar of the gov't consisting of National Security. Look to see the professionals searching for private jobs.
In the meantime, the military and veterans get the kind of support that really matters, parades. Bolton will make sure we have the manpower to get a war started in Korea and Iran. It'll be somebody else's job to get us out.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 12:56am PT
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Sorry, eyeball, but you and your group-think compadres here are only marginally discernible from the mob in the photo. And the burden of proof upside down journalism you frothed up on the previous page reminded me of a certain logic practiced back in the day.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 06:58am PT
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Oh dear, did Ms Rachael and Mr Lemon and Herr O'Donnell get all y'all stirred up about fake again? Ever feel like you're just being played??
Uhhhh...there WERE indictments yesterday, Lituya. To most people, it would be a disappointment, if they were expecting the names to be part of TrumpCo. But when it is pointed out that in those indictments, Mueller "gave" Donald Trump a win, against "Iran Islamists," it takes on a different color. That being, that if Trump tries to fire Mueller now, there's another finger pointing to the facts of what is really going on, a/k/a Saturday Night Massacre.
Have you not noticed that even GOP pols are starting to say "Maybe Putin has something on DT?" That they are actually FINALLY beginning to step away to gain safe distance from POTUS Wrapped in Explosives?
Sorry, eyeball, but you and your group-think compadres here are only marginally discernible from the mob in the photo
You're a jackass. Or were you puling a Donald Double(Intendre) and expected we would think you meant the oppressers, when in you *crafty* mind you were referring to the oppressed?
Do I ever think I am getting played? Yes, I do worry. It's f*#king terrifying, what is happening right now. This is not a game of Pin the Tail on the Donkey.
So, stop playing YOUR games; spewing poisoned emotion-painted barbs, and post from a facts-based perspective. If you can't do that, there's a reason why, and it's not too difficult to figure out why.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 07:01am PT
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Pointless arguing with hardcore Trumpkins.
The November election is less than eight months away. Find a swing district near you, knock on voters' doors, and flip congress.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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There were 62,979,879 who voted for Trump.
Approximately 42% of those eligible to vote did not.
How many of that 42% support Trump?
Although he didn't, Trump claims he wrote "The Deal" book. How many great deals has he done in the last year or so?
Maybe he is saving up for a plea bargain.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 24, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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Low level dialogue.
Um, y'all do know that we've interfered in almost every international election in the last 60 years right?
I'm more pissed at the DNC corruption than at the Russians. I like leaks.
And when you start beating the cold-war era, anti Russia drum, you aren't making friends. Weren't we all "Don't the Russians Love Their Children, Too?"?
And Chump and the Repubs aren't responsible for the Syrian refugee crisis.
Y'all are displaying the same losing tactics that lost the election.
When Oranguchimp fires Bolton, the swamp is going to start looking even better.
Keep firing Donald. I'm enjoying the show now
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 24, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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Low level dialogue.
Or OCD onanism.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Mar 24, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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Onanism has an end. There is no limit to this inanity
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Trump
climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
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Did you see the interview with the playboy bunny? She loved me! No regrets, I treated her kindly and respectfully!
And I loved her too. And who wouldn’t - haters like you?
Did my approval rating just tick up another notch? Those fake media geniuses at CNN have had all this time to figure me out, and they still haven’t figured me out?
Sorry all, but please don’t hold your breath waiting for Charles Manson to replace me. I run the show now!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
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Trump
climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 01:20pm PT
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“There’s a reason why, and it’s not too difficult to figure out why.”
Yup. Same reason on your end as it is on his and mine. But we only like to figure those facts out about other people.
Love ya locker!
If you’re gonna drink poison and hope I die, I’m gonna be sad about that. I hope none of us do. That kind of thing gets in the way of believing the truth, for humans like us.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Mar 24, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
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Fake trump, cuz he didn't misspell anything..
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Mar 24, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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truputin,
did it make you sad to have to assassinate all who disagreed with corrupt oligarchy?
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Trump
climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
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For sure, that makes me sad.
And it makes me sad if people with whom I share my preferred beliefs, if not my actual beliefs, are tweaked by my presenting my beliefs in a more playful, and less strident or factual way, than they prefer.
If we prefer the “factuality” of Tom’s bull analogy, I’m cool with that, too. It is easy to see what the reason why we would prefer that factuality is, without needing to believe that we’re dicks for doing it.
Or even to believe that other people are dicks for doing it. Lots of my supporters believed they preferred “factualities” too. You be you.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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The best story of the Playboy bunny interview was when Trump became confused, and didn't know if he was supposed to hand her money, leave it on the dresser, or what.
Apparently, Trump thinks any woman willing to sleep with him must be a prostitute. When the Playboy bunny said she didn't want money after having sex with him, Trump didn't know how to respond.
So, he told the Playboy bunny that she was just like his daughter, Ivanka.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 24, 2018 - 03:41pm PT
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Geez Mr. Trump sir, I didn't know you actually HAD any beliefs. At last you're showing your true spelling ability, as well as your introspective side. I bet you sometimes lay awake at night thinking about stuff and how to be a better and more compassionate human being. Please tell us some of those deep thoughts you have; you can open up to us, we'll understand when you reveal all the hopes and fears that make you act like an as#@&%e.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 24, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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Tom said:
So, he told the Playboy bunny that she was just like his daughter, Ivanka.
Wonder what a neo-Freudian revisionist would make of that? Totem & Taboo & Incest and all that other repression rot . . . . ?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 24, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
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My point is that I question the importance of Stormy Daniells having had sex with Trump years ago, or any number of other non-major issues prominent in the news these days. As for anything of importance, let Mueller do his job and we'll see what comes of collusion with the Russkies or obstruction of justice. And the mass shootings must be addressed, but I don't know how - we are not Europe or Australia.
Ditto John, I have never tweeted, never will. As for Facebook, I have an account/page but do not post to it, I do read friends and family posts though. Social media can be a good thing, but it is also liable to significant abuse, not to mention being just one big circle jerk at times, as can forums and the internet itself. I am no luddite or technophobe (I was on the Arpanet back at uni in the mid 1980s), I just do not care much for social media.
In November 1998 I launched a monthly magazine, Irish Communications, one of my first editorials was on the growing abundance of misinformation, disinformation and just plain shite that was accumulating on the net. I am not prescient by any means, but it was clear back then that while the internet was one of the great tools for communications, it was also open to abuse. And then along came a spider.
As far as Trump’s personal life is concerned, I could not care a rat’s assess as long as it does not affect the US, what concerns me is a) the guy is an incompetent buffoon yet he is POTUS who thinks he is a cross between a CEO and a monarch, and not a public servant, b) in my view the policies he is pushing for and enacting are not good for America, and c) who really is controlling him?
And really, who bankrupts a casino they are running? I'd think that would be quite difficult unless there was an ulterior motive for doing so. Or just plain stupidity.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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It's not Trump's personal life that is being investigated. The hush-money payments to Stormy Daniels and the Playboy bunny are at the center of a criminal investigation. Trump's presidential campaign appears to have illegally benefited from the payoffs, with felony indictments forthcoming.
Prosecutors didn't care about John Edwards' pregnant mistress during the 2008 presidential election. It was his campaign's misuse of funds to conceal the affair that led to his being indicted. Ironically, Edwards' failed defense that his friends had paid the money themselves, solely to protect his family from embarrassment, is now being invoked by Trump's attorney Cohen.
The Stormy Daniels scandal is the least of Trump's problems. The Manafort affair is going to blow up much, much larger. And, there's no telling how far investigations into money laundering through NYC real estate deals will go.
Trump's fealty to Putin is only a sideshow, at this point.
I meant that there is no formal investigation into Trump's personal life, per se. Of course the public is now concerned that Trump is a Trump is a Trump. Unfortunately, for many people, that concern didn't exist in 2016.
"Anybody but Hillary" is sounding more and more like, "Out of the pan, and into the fire".
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
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Yes it is. His personal life and lack of character are precisely the important issues under review in addition to his unlawful actions.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 24, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
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Someone asked Stormy Daniels what sort of snack people should have while watching her tv interview and she replied:
Tacos and mini corndogs just seems so right...and yet, so wrong. I believe the more traditional choice is popcorn, however.
Can DT just ignore the public believing he has not only small hands, but a mini corndog?
I know it's really crass, but there have got to be some very funny "mini corndog cracks" coming...oops, didn't mean it that way.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 24, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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Happie, you owe those cute lil corndogs an apolgy
I am having a "storm watch" party tomorrow, thinking little smokies in a bun would be a good snack
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 24, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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jon! Re your post:
[quote]I am having a "storm watch" party tomorrow, thinking little smokies in a bun would be a good snack[/quoite]
Stormy party for sure! Even in Idaho!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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I am having a "storm watch" party tomorrow
In Oakland, a theater is showing the Stormy Daniels show on the big screen. Tickets are $5.00. B.Y.O.T.A.C.D.
EDIT:
The original story of the Oakland theater screening the 60 Minutes Stormy Daniels interview
has been updated to reflect that
CBS' lawyers threatened to sue the theater.
Stopping people from watching the broadcast at a theater makes no sense.
If people watch the interview at the theater, they will still see the advertisements that CBS shows during the broadcast. Why are they insisting that people, instead, have to stay at home to watch the show? What about some guy in a Walmart, waiting in front of a TV, while his wife tries on the latest spring fashions? Or some guy who puts a keg of beer in his bathtub, and charges his friends $5 for a bottomless red Solo cup?
Some people probably wouldn't watch the show, except at the theater as a cultural event involving other people. I'm not going to sit through the whole show. I'll wait for the juicy clips to show up on YouTube, and not see any commercials at all.
But, if I was in Oakland, I would absolutely pay $5.00 to be in a crowd of jeering hecklers. Some things are just more fun when you do them with other people.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Mar 25, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
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someone say babydick?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 25, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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i wonder where Mr. Perez is watching the show.
Maybe he should have claimed bone spurs (yeehah) avoided service, ptsd and drugs.
(CNN)A US Army veteran who served two tours in Afghanistan has been deported to Mexico, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement said.
The deportation follows an earlier decision by US authorities to deny Miguel Perez's citizenship application because of a felony drug conviction, despite his service and the PTSD he says it caused.
Perez, 39, was escorted across the US-Mexico border from Texas and handed over to Mexican authorities Friday, ICE said in a statement.
Perez, his family and supporters, who include Sen. Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, had argued that his wartime service to the country had earned him the right to stay in the United States and to receive mental health treatment for the PTSD and substance abuse.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 08:30pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is just disgusting and despicable. Even the Ancient Romans had the decency to grant citizenship to those who served in their army.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 25, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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trump makes Bill Clinton look like a choir boy. Why aren't Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers, etc, condemming trump?
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 25, 2018 - 08:53pm PT
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trump makes Bill Clinton look like a choir boy.
Bill was just horney. Donald, though, it's becoming more and more obvious, is a well seasoned whore monger with the brutal instincts of a pimp.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 09:51pm PT
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Trump's grandfather, Friedrich Drumpf, made the family fortune as a whore monger, running brothels and gambling houses in Washington and British Columbia. His specialty was fleecing gold miners. Drumpf's Bavarian citizenship was revoked for evading his military service obligations. And, on at least one occasion, he obtained title to a piece of land belonging to someone else through fraud and deceit.
After he died, it was his wife and son, Fred, who started the real estate company that later became the Trump Organization of today.
Trump's new lawyer, Joseph diGenova has quit after just six days. He was a frequent talking head on Fox News, and regularly said that Mueller's investigation about Russian interference was a conspiracy against Trump.
diGenova said he was quitting because his other clients are being investigated by Mueller, and it would pose a conflict of interest to also represent Trump.
But, it is apparently proper and correct for him to go on Fox News to argue his clients' cases, and insist that the investigation be shut down.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 11:22am PT
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^^^ Tom, I researched the same stuff, from several sources, and apparently it is true. We know Joe Kennedy ran in certain circles (as did grandpa Bush), and apparently so did Herr Drumpf. I suppose, in some way, that is what makes America great.
I always thought it was watching John Wayne in The Big Trail (1930) (saw it last night, I have it on DVD, corny, some "mythology", of course the Savage Indians, but realistic too. My family travelled the same route in 1843, I guess that is why I like it, and Raoul Walsh was a good director).
Researching for an article/treatise I am writing on Mr Trump, I like the bit where Herr Drumpf had his Bavarian citizenship revoked for evading military service, when I read that bit in my research, I thought of Donald and his bone spurs. Like father like son (denying "people of color" accommodation), like grandfather like grandson (cowards)
I was 1A, I did not like or agree with the Vietnam War (I organized sit-ins and a debate with a Green Beret Sergeant in J-High, I have it in the yearbook, but was ready to serve as a medic - enlisted not drafted - but then the draft ended. Or another option was to try and get in the veterinary program at University of Sasksatchewan, hah hah. I was a veterinary aide (1&2 in summer school, 72/73. Canada or Vietnam I was ready for both).
My long-winded point is… I do not like Donald Trump. Never have (years ago) never will. And he is a crap person to boot.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 26, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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Tom - there is no conflict in gong on TV and advocating for a client. If it is flaggrant enough a judge will issue a gag order. Dual representation is different, because by representing two parties there might be conflicting interests.
In this case the clients are Sam Clovis and Mark Corallo. Both of them may have information that could hurt Trumps case. By representing those two at the same time they represent Trump they are no going to advocate 100% for a single client.
The White House said that diGenova and wife might still be doing other work for the White House. I doubt it, any representation of Trump at this point would be a conflict, regardless of the subject matter. Sucks for diGenova because he is such an attention whore.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-25/conflicts-prevent-digenova-from-joining-trump-s-legal-team
Toensing already was representing other clients involved in Russia investigations, including the president’s former campaign aide Sam Clovis and Mark Corallo, a former spokesman for Trump’s legal team.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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The way I see it, history will look back at this whole… hmmm… what shall it be called, era?, hiccup? clusterfufck?, and just yawn. History has seen it before.
Yet, there is a lot at steak. I'll take mine rare, no blue actually, like Donald.
EDIT
Anyway, a long day, a lot done a lot yet a lot to do, but making an ass of myself is not on that list. I have done that all too much on this forum over the years.
For Americas' sake, for the world, let us hope that Trump, as much as I despise him, pulls his head out of his arse, but somehow, I highly doubt it.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 26, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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Facebook is being accused of bad, bad, things.
Something tells me that the Cambridge Analytica crowd aren't as stupid as the Trump Bumpkins, when it comes to covering their tracks, but I guess we are going to find out.
The Trump's already cornered the market on "We're not politicians, so it's easy to understand we don't understand the laws, and inadvertently may have broken one or two." They really DID do a good job at branding the campaign as having been run by Ivanka, Eric and Junior, just doing what they could to help dad). Facebook and CA won't be able to play the Idiot Card and have anyone fall for it.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 11:53am PT
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Happie, I see it this way.
Zuckerberg and FB will lose Face, but still come out financially smelling like roses, albeit perhaps with some thorns.
I wrote on this forum some months back, close to a year perhaps, about CA and its influence, and I was only picking up on where other people, researchers, had already done the groundwork.
Donad Trump will ride this Storm. His base is too gullible and the Republican hierarchy too beholden, or scared or just plain daft to challenge him.
The Democrats are in disarray, wondering how to tie their shoe laces, and that is a wonder, as some are barefoot stepping on glass.
And all this while America is being made GREAT AGAIN. Pissing off allies, but what are friends for. I feel so proud.
You know of course that the Sun revolves around Donald Trump. That is the universe. Take it or leave it. The solar flares are just his farts.
I'd love to see Monty Python in Trump's White House.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 26, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
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The Democrats are in disarray
Hi Patrick!
I have to respectfully disagree with your above quote
Seems to me the Democrats are not only just fine but winning seats all over the country, including in deep red states
They are putting up not only more emotionally angry and motivated but more diverse candidates
polling shows their strategies are working, with voters preferring Dem control of congress
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
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Yes Norton, the pendulum is swinging, as it does in history (are humans fickle?. I do not now, ask a giraffe or orangutan).
But do the gains, and minor in some ways it seems, are significant enough for the Second Party to challenge the Powers That Be?
Do you really think that the Democrats will win a majority in the House? And what if they do, there is no way the Senate is going to flip, they are beholden to the Emperor, the Dark Side.
So if the Dems take the House majority, what then? A split Congress?
The mid-term elections this year may tell a lot, but not the whole story.
The battleground is 2020. My gut feeling - I could be wrong and hope I am - is that Trump will survive until then. And with the shenanigans that have been going on, he could very well be re-elected (please I have had enough nightmares, truly, last night, seriously, my legs were stuck in the Stove Legs, f*#kin El Cap), but if Trump re-elected, then saw my legs off as in Misery (the book, not the movie).
Norton, who will the Dems put forward in 2020, and in these early says it seems the Democrat field will be many, sort of the like the Repubs in 2016. who will coalesce the Democrats to kick Trump out, because he may very all be re-elected.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 26, 2018 - 12:55pm PT
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Hi again, Patrick
Yes indeed I believe and polling shows that the Dems are favored to take the House in November
and that polling is cited as the main reason so many Republican House members are resigning rather than face defeat
I agree with you on the Senate likely staying Republican, but only because in the every two year election cycle of the Senate's six year terms this is the Dems turn to defend the most seats, not so in 2020 when it will be the Repubs turn
what Dem in 2020 will defeat any Republican and become President? Joe Biden
He wants it, is greatly qualified, has personal charisma, is well liked and respected by Dems and is a great campaigner
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
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The Dems need a Kennedy figure with a rich, power-mad, unscrupulous white daddy to push him into the White House. That lacking, a dark horse could emerge prior to 2020. Never know at this early stage of the game . . .
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
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No. NO. And Joe Biden being a schoolboy with this "take him behind the bike shed and beat him up" or whatever shite will not suffice in my eyes. I will not vote for Joe Biden, I think he is a decent fella, but an idiot for saying such, and he should know better. A lot better. Do I want somebody who should know better as a POTUS? And his apology for such a faux pas, weak.
I now he is popular, I know he intelligent, I know he is competent, I know he is experienced, and forgiving his foot in mouth moment or two (or a lot, Joe Biden and gaffes, a new definition please).
Next.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
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I agree with your description of Biden’s schoolyard antics, but if he is the nomineee I would not hesitate to volunteer for his campaign, or nearly anyone else who is the nominee, for that matter.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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I am going to start a thread on social media. It will obviously not be about climbing. I will give my reasons for the years I have been a reluctant user of social media, and indeed, have not used it much.
I am not a luddite or technophobe, I have been on the Arpanet since 1983. I launched Irish Communications magazine in November 1998 and wrote about much of this this stuff then, though I am not prescient.
the thread I start, I will hope it does not go down the anti or pro Trump avenues. The dude is a pos who has had enough coverage. But, how communications, information and (perverse?) human nature can overtake common sense (of which I never had).
As to climbing threads, as for posters on politard threads who have never or very little, posted on a thread about climbing, as for the trolls, it is a Climber's forum, not a climbing forum, we do sit around and bullshit as around a campfire.
I spent a long time in C4 around campfires, I usually kept my mouth shut (super difficult for a gobshite like me), listening.
I have been so wrong about so many things in life, I could cry, but what use would that do. Perhaps I am finally learning to move on from my mistakes. No more tears, no more sighs, no more sorrows, no more feeling sorry for myself.
But I am not wrong about Donald Trump. Or the powers behind him or those that follow him and his masters.
Are we are on a cusp of human change? No. The sun will rise in east, the moon set in the west.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
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Biden is a narcissistic lying wannabe-tough-guy fraud. So he's who you all want to replace Trump with?
Anyway: who else here is getting really sick of Mueller and ready to see him him get canned, unless he can show some real evidence of "collusion" involving Trump soon?
Trump should file Magoo and replace him with an AG who will exercise some oversight over Mueller and fire his ass unless he's got something real on Trump, which so far we've seen zero evidence of.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
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Just imagine Trump and Biden rolling around on the ground, Joe struggling to fire a shotgun into the air while Trumps combover flops down blinding him as he spills tick-tacs all over.
Man, the pay per view could erase half the national debt.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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Biden said: "If I was in High School I would"
I would beat the sh#t out of him if I was in High School as well
Biden was correct, and calling out the a-hole bully
Mueller already has found plenty of collusion
Papadopplis or whatever admitted to the FBI that the Trump Organization TOLD in to get the dirt on Hillary from the Russians =Collusion
Here is Trump colluding with the Russians directly and passing off Classified intel
Do you right wingers not listen to the real News?
or do you stay in the safe fake News Fox Bubble?
Well anyway, Mueller has to also investigate money laundering, mafia criminal dealings, collusion with the Russians on election fraud, Republican election fraud, Republicans colluding with Russia and the cyber Facebook ads and fake News, why the Russians gave the NRA money, what other Republicans got help from Russia, and whatever else the trail of Trump corruption leads
And don't forget the most damming offense, using Russian Hacked data on the DNC and then the following cover up, this would have put Nixon in jail.
This may take awhile, but Trump and his crime family are in deep dodo.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 26, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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So Patrick, if Joe was the nominee who would you vote for, the Green Party candidate? That would be wasting your vote.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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Do you really think that the Democrats will win a majority in the House? And what if they do, there is no way the Senate is going to flip, they are beholden to the Emperor, the Dark Side.
So if the Dems take the House majority, what then? A split Congress?
I think the Dems are more likely than not to take the House. But probably not much better than a coin flip.
Taking the House is a big deal. The majority party controls the committees and can launch and stop investigations and control who has to give testimony under oath to the House. That is Yuge!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
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Jon, ask me when we get there. What is a wasted vote. I took the time not to mail but to go up to Dublin to the embassy to vote, because it was time all worth it. As I did in England, France and elsewhere.
And lately I usually refrain from responding to individual trolls like Lituya and Blahblahblahblahblahblah, It just warms their cockles to do so, brats.
But I am going to take the bait.
For Blahsabah, go suck on it jerk.Just as bad as some of the other trolls on this forum. Go sell your snake oil elsewhere is how I feel.
Lituya, I have taken the time, and it was not much, to see your ST history, just about all politard posts. Hardly no climbing but to slag other climbers. But your writing is quite literate, I was thinking you may be copying and pasting, but you seem to have some insights that make me think, perhaps you are not just an ordinary troll. but you come across quite literate and intelligent.
Have you fooled me?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
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"When the wind cries, the tides recede"Ⓒ
Look for it next year, in the bookshops hopefully, definitely online.
EDIT
I know it is a stupid title, my agent and my publisher both said so. But it is whatI I chose. Arrogance knows no bounds.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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Just see todays Monday st00pid politard horsesh!t updates the same as all their st00pid updates here.
Only in America by the brainwashed st00pid politards here ......
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
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Politard Kranl00n reporting as ordered, SIR!
Kennedy set the bar for philandering which Trump, in his wildest dreams,
can never hope to match!
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
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LOL .....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
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And the smoking duck is one that I sat around a campfire listening to back in the mid 1970s. How are you ducky, do you remember me? Paddy
Lunatic Fringe perhaps?
Werner, super troll. He may be a gobshite like I am, but he certainly contributed to SAR methods and techniques, more than me, more than most. But he is still a gobshite. Hah hah
I will stop now, my third glass of wine, and the roast is now out of the oven, so I best save the wine for the food.
I love this forum. I just wish I could climb more, there is eff all climbing here in Wexford, but that is where my home is.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
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Kennedy set the bar for philandering which Trump, in his wildest dreams,
can never hope to match!
And you know that how? Reilly? But then you seem to know everything. So I guess I'll take your word for it. And the Duck will agree with anything that he sees fit.
Please, give me a break.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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And Locker, I made reference to Joe Kennedy in an earlier post, but mister perfect Reilly chose to ignore it. I wish I was Reilly, so perfect,
Reilly, with all of your global traveling and the super dudes at your dinner table, you seem to forget one thing, you are not them. And never will be.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 26, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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For Blahsabah, go suck on it jerk.Just as bad as some of the other trolls on this forum. Go sell your snake oil elsewhere is how I feel.
Patrick if I were in high school I would thump you for that!
But I'm not, and I imagine you haven't been in the last 50 years or so, so how about trying to act a little more respectfully?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 26, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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so how about trying to act a little more respectfully?
Hah hah
Well, tell me how to do it Blah. I await your wisdom.
You know, the ST has many opinions of the same, and some not so, but I would never call it an echo chamber. SO its liberals seems to "rule", because, I have been on this forum since 2005.
because, "Most of us seem open minded,
I aim just trying to get through life I lost my best friend through illness, but she is in a nursing home, I f*#ked up but others say I did not, whatever.
Soi I live abroad, I want POTUS who is above all competent. I am still waiting.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 26, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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new world order2...
That Biden compilation is total nonsense and only proves that the people that believe it, are IDIOTS...
then by that logic, new world order2 is also an idiot, forum banned twice already
------
as far as Robert Mueller having not proved "collusion", another "idiot" can't spell multiple "indictments" already
thoughts and prayers won't help ease your Robert Mueller "pain", deal with it
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 26, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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Journalism at its best
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
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Trump's F.O.S. lawyer and a White House spokesman are both insisting that Stormy Daniels was never threatened with violence in a Las Vegas parking lot, or told to leave Trump alone and stop the story.
How stupid are those people?
If Trump and Co. had nothing to do with Daniels, the scandal and the parking lot goon, how could they possibly know what happened, or didn't happen?
It's like the police telling someone they found his missing business partner, and he immediately yells out, "I didn't shoot him!"
At Mar-a-Lago last weekend, Trump regaled his guests by boasting that Stormy Daniels now owes him $21 million, not just $20 million. But, his attorney, Cohen, is still insisting that Trump never had anything to do with Daniels, the NDA or the $130,000 payment. Trump's chaotic management style has him tripping over his own lies, in addition to those of the absent-minded attorney.
Stormy Daniels' latest lawsuit against Cohen confirms that her attorney is going to attack the NDA on the basis of the hush-money payment violating campaign finance laws. Avenatti now has three strong bases for invalidating the contract.
Trump and his lying goon squad are COOKED.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 12:05am PT
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Forget the Stormy Daniels interview. Her attorney, Michael Avenatti, is the real star of the Stormy Daniels Show.
This video clip has Anderson Cooper and Jeffery Toobin moderating a dogfight between Avenatti and Michael Cohen's attorney, David Schwartz.
Avenatti says that Cohen's "legal buffoonery" has created multiple traps for himself and the president.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
"Where's my Roy Cohn?"
In March, 2017. Trump learned that Attorney General Jeff Sessions had recused himself from the Russia investigation. This alarmed Trump because he thought the AG was his own personal bulldog attorney, funded by taxpayers.
In his anguish, Trump plaintively whined, "Where's my Roy Cohn?"
Roy Cohn was Trump's notoriously amoral, crooked, pugnacious and vicious NYC attack-attorney, who was disbarred for defrauding and despoiling his own clients. Roy Cohn died in 1986.
Roy Cohn is not here, Michael Cohen is a buffoon, and Michael Avenatti is moving in for the kill.
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Trump
climber
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Mar 27, 2018 - 08:01am PT
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New CNN poll has my approval rating ticking up again, now at 42%, the highest point since the 100 day mark of my presidency. Also that 2/3 of Americans believe the news about my affairs (i.e. that information is already incorporated into my rising approval ratings).
Just sharing some facts for all of the fact believers.
But don’t believe the lies I tell you - believe the ones you tell yourself! Spend your time and mental energy confirming your favorite belief. Working out pretty well for me so far.
Have a nice day!
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Trump
climber
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Mar 27, 2018 - 08:33am PT
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Well said. We think that we’re focusing on ideas and beliefs, but really what we’re paying attention to is social emotional interpersonal stuff.
If you don’t like me, don’t believe what I’m saying. Works for the rest of us.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 27, 2018 - 08:36am PT
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I like the fake Trump.
I'm lmao .....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 27, 2018 - 08:57am PT
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Paddy, pardonnez-moi for not responding. Do forgive me for trying to have a life outside the
Crankl00n Zone. I was guilty of shoddy reporting in that I should have said that Kennedy has
no equal for philandering while in the White House. Anybody who doesn’t know that is a
major denier. There have been myriad articles on it. As for anything else I say you can rest
assured that it is true and well vetted. And don’t feel bad, even me mum calls me Mr Perfect.
It is a burden that I bear.
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Trump
climber
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Mar 27, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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If we need to misunderstand me and misinterpret my behaviors, let’s go for it!
But I’m no Trump supporter. I’m Trump! I’m just like you, just that I climbed to be the leader of the free world.
DUMB, locker, you nailed it! That cuts me to the quick! Thanks for that. How long till Cambridge Analytica figures that one out?
Here’s hoping we can all find a way to cut through our own bullsh#t, with a little help from you and the duck.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Mar 27, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
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This space reserved for major zinger...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 27, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
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Well, I take Trump's word that he is not a Muslim but I have my doubts
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 27, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
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The Enemy Below.
Who is it?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
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The White House is happy to announce the latest addition to its staff, Caroline Sunshine.
Sunshine, 22, is a former Disney Channel dancer and White House intern. She has been promoted to the White House Press Office, and will soon replace Sarah Huckabee Sanders as Press Secretary.
Sunshine's 500,000 Twitter followers make her the most highly-qualified press officer to ever serve in the Trump administration.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/politics/caroline-sunshine-white-house/index.html
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall...
General Donald Drumpfkopf is a genius.
He will make the military build the wall, and then deport all the soldiers to Mexico so he doesn't have to pay them.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 27, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
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proof that Trump is a secret Muslim is that there are no credible, unaltered, photos of him in a Christian church
everyone knows he leaves the WH every Friday at 2pm and goes to play golf all weekend at Mar a Largo
no Christian churches for Sunday services at his golf courses, sorry, proof he is a Muslim
I heard he was created in a Petri dish in Kenya, educated in Indonesia, attended a terrorist training camp in Syria
brought back to the US by his father, Fred, and prepped to become President to put us all under Sharia Law
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 27, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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Sunshine, 22, is an Ivanka look alike.....
Fixed the fix.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 27, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
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Maybe Sunshine could lead Trumps legal team too. Couldn't be any worse than what they got going on now. I am going with the neurosyphilis theory.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 28, 2018 - 06:49am PT
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But fuked by a hippo...? Was that in the Steele dossier..?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 28, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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I go with the right wing burden of proof. Trump can not prove he didn't fuk a hippo, therefore he did.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 28, 2018 - 10:44am PT
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New Mueller court filing links Trump campaign, Russian intelligence, and WikiLeaks
The special counsel says Rick Gates was "directly communicating" with a former GRU officer in the fall of 2016.
https://thinkprogress.org/rick-gates-trump-campaign-russian-intelligence-gru-mueller-f53c55bb1ac6/
In a Tuesday night court filing, special counsel Robert Mueller’s office revealed that it has linked a Trump campaign official who is cooperating with the special counsel’s investigation to a person who “has ties to a Russian intelligence service and had such ties in 2016.”
According to Mueller’s office, Rick Gates — a longtime associate of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort — was “directly communicating” with a “Person A” who Gates identified to associates as “a former Russian Intelligence Officer with the GRU.” Those contacts occurred “in September and October 2016” and are “pertinent to the investigation.”
One thing that never gets discussed is Hillary's e-mail server, it was NEVER Hacked. There was never a breach in security
The DNC and RNC e-mails were hacked by the Russian's, they released the DNC e-mails though Wikileaks
In other words, the Republicans were in collusion with Russia to sway the election.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 28, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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Trump can save the taxpayers a bunch of money and his presidency if he would come clean about the hippo rump roasting...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 28, 2018 - 11:33am PT
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Sunshine, 22, is a former Disney Channel dancer and White House intern. She has been promoted to the White House Press Office, and will soon replace Sarah Huckabee Sanders as Press Secretary.
Has Sunshine already hired an attorney to get her non-disclosure agreement ruled invalid yet?
And which member of 60 minutes gets to interview her kiss-and-tell?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 28, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
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Trump would be a far more successful president if he was someone else. Too many faults.
I heard someone mention Oprah for president. Jesus. Haven't we learned that the presidency is not an entry level political position?
Mueller has something on Trump for sure. Long ago, Flynn was trying to get immunity from the Senate Intelligence Committee, like Oliver North did, and avoid prosecution. He had broken some law more serious than just lying to the FBI. That charge was just what it got plead down to.
Flynn said, "He very much wants to tell his story, and it is quite a story."
Something along those lines.
Now we are seeing attacks against Mueller. Watch Hannity some night. He is batshit crazy. If Trump isn't guilty of anything, he shouldn't worry about Mueller. Many presidents in the past have dealt with special counsels, and Ken Starr, who went after Clinton, inspected his entire life, from a bad real estate deal to an idiotic affair with an intern. For a Rhodes Scholar, that was a bad move.
It is simple to be faithful to my wife. Why do these powerful guys always get in troubles over their dicks?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
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The POSPOTUS is barely still afloat, and the toila-swirl vortex is moving faster and faster. Mueller is carefully playing out his winning hand, one card at a time. Trump will soon be staring, figuratively speaking, at a Straight Flush.
And, pretty soon, the National Chant will be:
FLUSH HIM DOWN!
FLUSH HIM DOWN!
The dubious friends of Donald Trump part 3: The billion dollar fraud
August 28, 2017, The New York Times publishes an article about Trump SOHO Tower, its Russian financing, and Russian election interference to assist Trump.
Three months later, the Trump Organization abandons its stake in Trump SOHO Tower, trying to distance itself from any ties to Russia.
Trump's biggest objection to Mueller's investigation has always been scrutiny of his business finances. He wouldn't release his taxes for the same reason: the Trump money trail leads directly back to Moscow.
The "Michael" cited in the email screenshot above is Michael Cohen, Trump's longtime lawyer. And, the "Ivanka", who sat at Putin's desk at the Kremlin, was Trump's daughter.
Ironically, the email goes on to say, "We both know no one else knows how to pull this off without stupidity or greed getting in the way."
That should have read,
"We both know no one knows how to pull this off without stupidity and greed getting in the way."
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 28, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
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Watch Hannity some night. He is batshit crazy.
Perhaps the best quote on this whole thread.
1967, For What It's Worth. Paranoia strikes deep.
Has anything changed?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 28, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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Whether or not this has to do with Trump, or just America.
What changed it for me? Vietnam, I wondered why as an 11 year old, why didn’t the criminals in prison fight the commies? Draft them I thought. Maybe it was watching the Green Berets (and John Wayne was a darn good actor, many people do not realize that, but I never liked his politics).
One day, in fifth grade, St Mary’s Elementary, Walnut Creek, an Army car pulls up, two officers get out, us kids all rush to the window. Sister Gregory, Mother Superior, comes to the door to see our teacher Mrs Burke.
We all gathered at the door of the classroom in the hallway, me at front because I am a pushy prick.
Mrs Burke, a great teacher, came running down the hall crying, her son Patrick was killed in Nam. I will never forget that. It changed my mind. It changed my life.
I never liked Reagan or both Bushes, Carter was sincere but a bit inept in my opinion, never was a big Clinton fan (either of them), Obama was okay (why he was ever given a Nobel prize is beyond me).
Trump. Donald Trump. How in the hell can America sink so low?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 28, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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Obama was okay
tell that Osama Bin Laden, and to the thankful troops he pulled out of combat in Iraq
tell that to the entire healthcare industry patients in America who can not longer be denied insurance because they had childhood measles, tell that to the 25 million more Americans who now have healthcare who had none before
The only US President who directly did as much or arguable more for the middle class in America was Lyndon Johnson who passed Medicare and the Civil Rights Act, yes he also escalated Vietnam
you would have to go back to the 1935 to find an equally great President as Obama
Roosevelt, who lifted tens of millions out of poverty by passing Social Security
all these Presidents, Democrats of course
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lincoln was a Republican - - - - back when they acted the way Democrats do now.
I heard someone mention Oprah for president.
Perfect. A cult of personality president, politically clueless, and with an easily exploited personal weakness: bread.
Some idiots were saying that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg should be president. He would sell America's private data to the Russians.
Why not dig up Steve Jobs and put him in a glass box, like Vladimir Lenin, and make him the president? At least he wouldn't be at risk of assassination by his Russian masters.
EDIT:
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Nobody gave Reagan credit for the economic boom of the late 1990's, despite its being directly fueled by the internet, which grew out of the Darpanet that Reagan pushed through.
And, Obama was blamed, as early as January 2009, for the Great Recession, which was primarily due to Bush and his cronies deregulating everything in sight.
Trump will soon be in a cage, telling the other patients he makes the sun rise and set.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Mar 28, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
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hose words appeared tone-deaf to the millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet, who sought a scapegoat and heard a more sensible explanation for their woes from Donald Trump.
But is that not the frightening thing? That these politicians, so-called leaders, neglect the obvious. And then the electorate decides some snake oil salesman has "the answer".
As far as the economy is concerned, the upturn, in employment, manufacturing (really?), the stock market, is not down to Donald Trump. As much as his supporters would like to think
Economies are their own beasts. Obama's policies may have helped to turn the tide, but unless there is a significant upheaval, things do not change. I laugh when I hear Trump and his supporters claim that his policies have turned matters around. What, in a year or so? Come on, give me a break.
The big buddies, the ones who rule the waves, they just chug along. And the average American, indeed the average person worldwide, are just the suckers. Me included.
Do you think Putin is worried? Trump? They have get free cards.
Let us not kid ourselves.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 28, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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As far as the economy is concerned, the upturn, in employment, manufacturing (really?), the stock market, is not down to Donald Trump. As much as his supporters would like to think
Economies are their own beasts. Obama's policies may have helped to turn the tide, but unless there is a significant upheaval, things do not change. I laugh when I hear Trump and his supporters claim that his policies have turned matters around. What, in a year or so? Come on, give me a break.
You're partly right, but only partly.
Obama seemed like a decent guy, but he was kind of a downer and I think he just made everyone fearful and depressed, and that led to a sluggish economy.
Trump's got a more positive, can-do attitude, and so everything is whirring along nicely now! It's really not rocket science--just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 28, 2018 - 04:50pm PT
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Obama seemed like a decent guy, but he was kind of a downer and I think he just made everyone fearful and depressed, and that led to a sluggish economy.
Yea, it had nothing to do with the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression.
It was Obama's fault for being a Downer.
Pullleeeeaaaase...
And Obama pulled the US out of the slump a lot quicker than most other rich countries managed.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 28, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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Obama pulled the US out of the slump
Pullleeeeze!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 28, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
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just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!
So that is what that was called 12 years ago when a guy flipping burgers in San Diego could buy a house sight unseen in Baton Rouge, LA.
Capitalism unleashed, has a nice ring to it.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 28, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
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blahblah! Per your mention: Obama seemed like a decent guy, but he was kind of a downer and I think he just made everyone fearful and depressed, and that led to a sluggish economy.
Trump's got a more positive, can-do attitude, and so everything is whirring along nicely now! It's really not rocket science--just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!
As folks have pointed out, Obama inherited a schisty economy & did pretty well.
What I find interesting is: The U.S. stock market mostly did very well from 2009 to 2016, after tanking horribly in 2008.
And of course, Trump inherited a booming economy & had a good first year with the stock market, but not nearly as good as 2009 & 2013, the start of Obama's two terms as president, per these S & P 500 index figures.
http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_141.htm
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
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Here's one more to be filed under You Can't Make This Stuff Up.
Trump's new press officer, Caroline Sunshine, played "Tinka" on a Disney Channel television show.
This video clip shows "Tinka", who speaks with a heavy Russian accent.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/03/28/caroline-sunshine-white-house-orig-llr.cnn
This is truly the Golden Age of Comedy. The material writes itself.
Trump was in bed, catching up on his Disney Channel reruns, and he couldn't believe it when he saw an underage Ivanka-clone speaking in a fake Russian accent.
The next morning, he ran downstairs, pointed his finger-gun at her, and said, "YOU'RE HIRED!"
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 28, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Tinka gonna give big daddy tiny hands a spanking...
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 28, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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Sooooo St000000pid .....
You people ARE insane and infantile .....
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 28, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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Meanwhile, Equador is trying to get Julian Assange to leave the embassy, by making his residence there unbearable(took away his wifi access).
Of course it is known, by anyone with any ability to deduce, that the moment he steps out that door, he is going to be nabbed, most likely by some country other that the US, since that would be bad optics. And once he is nabbed, he's gonna be taken somewhere and given a spanking and have his mouth washed out with soap. And told that he will go to bed with no supper for the rest of his life, if he doesn't tell the truth...
Oh...I forgot that we're not children. Damned DT and his shenanigans makes me forget sometimes.
Anyway, JA can receive no visitors, make telephone calls or speak to the press. I don't know about speaking to an attorney, and how that works in Equador.
The plan is, obviously, to get him out of the safe harbor of an embassy, but to what depths will the go? How does he get food? Shower? Is he allowed newspapers, or to SEE web pages?
What a BIZARRE world we've been living in, unawares. Thank you Donald Trump, for tripping the light switch on that, at least.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 28, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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So Werner - do you think Assange was doing "right" all along, and is now being maligned, as being called out as a Russian Operative?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 28, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
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Totally corrupt people posing as saviors. Oldest con there is.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 28, 2018 - 06:35pm PT
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Russian Operative
Lol ....... everything is Russian now.
No not Russian.
Better go and dive deeper as you are only swimming in the shallow end of the pool .....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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Shower?
One more to be filed under You Can't Make This Stuff Up.
Assange has had nothing to do at the embassy, except not irritate and alienate his hosts. The Ecuadoran government seemed truly sympathetic, offering him asylum, citizenship and even negotiated on his behalf with the UK.
But, now they want him gone. His personal hygiene is so atrocious, it's offending the entire embassy.
Vete ahorita y rapdio, perro sucio.
Ecuadoran Embassy Workers Say Assange Must Go: His Body Odor Is Intolerable And Is Disrupting Embassy Business
EDIT:
Trump is still playing the guy in high school who was cool because his father bought him a Corvette. He was born on third base, but told everybody he hit a stand-up triple his first time at bat. Needy, self-conscious kids with low self-esteem looked up to the Corvette Kid, wishing they were just like him. When the Corvette Kid teased and bullied and beat up the geeks, his fans (he had no friends) cheered and goaded him on, thankful that they weren't being tormented themselves. His fans would do anything to gain acceptance into the Corvette Kid's inner sanctum of Ultimate Coolness. The Corvette Kid's only concept of the world was a sociopathic perversion of Newton's Third Law: "I raise myself up when I push someone else down."
Trump didn't attend high school. His father sent him off to the New York Military Academy, which doubled as a juvenile hall for rich kids (John Gotti's son was sent there, too). Trump didn't drive a Corvette. His father gave him a purple Cadillac with a back seat, befitting a yearbook's "Ladies' Man".
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 28, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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what an imposter, so anxious for others to think he is so smart
yet when called out and challenged has absolutely nothing to back up his brilliance
80% of his "tweets" are personal insults because he lacks the intelligence and knows it
go away, disappear, everyone is on to and sick of his act
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 28, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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They should remand him to the custody of the Swedish Bikini Team.
They’ll kick his punk ass.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 28, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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I wrote "shower" as an indicator of discomfort. Most people who are used to regularly having one feel the lack of one pretty soon after whatever period of time between them they are used to had passed.
If they want him out, and are restricting him in ways, that is another way, was all I meant.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 28, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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DMT -- "And I think it was real."
The American way .... just plain guess.
No wonder this country is so st00pid ......
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 28, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
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Duck dynasty has spoken...All stoopids bow...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 28, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
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Well duck, tell us what to do. Same old same old. I could write the duck with my brain closed; at least give us new material.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2018 - 11:08pm PT
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 29, 2018 - 09:48am PT
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just unleash the forces of capitalism and let the markets work their magic!
So that is what that was called 12 years ago when a guy flipping burgers in San Diego could buy a house sight unseen in Baton Rouge, LA.
Capitalism unleashed, has a nice ring to it.
OK if I remember right, the crappy loans were based on government subsidies and programs that encouraged poor people to buy houses (which may or may not be a laudable goal, depending on the program . . .)
In a real free market, you'd never have had all the crazy loans. Sometimes our hybrid system of a sort of phony capitalism brings out the worst, the old privatized gains and socialized losses.
What we really need is good old fashioned unrestrained laissez faire capitalism, but fat chance of that happening with the brain washed millennials taking over soon . . .
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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^^More like free market loan officers abusing government programs with 'enhanced' applications.^^
Subsidized low income defaults had little to do with causing the great recession.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:09am PT
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OK if I remember right
You may have remembered hearing that, I have heard that before, it is absolute nonsense
government subsidies and programs that encouraged poor people to buy houses
but that is the talking point of people in denial. Please identify a subsidy to poor people that led to the crash. If true then the government would have taken a bath, like when the FDIC failed. Private lenders (huge banks) took the hit. The government only took a hit after the fact when they bailed the banks out. Greedy banks were screaming for consumer loans in order to issue more paper they could sell, greedy real estate types obliged them.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:13am PT
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OK if I remember right, the crappy loans were based on government subsidies and programs that encouraged poor people to buy houses (which may or may not be a laudable goal, depending on the program . . .)
I'm pretty sure the crappy loans took advantage of loopholes in programs that encouraged people to buy houses, but weren't "based" on that. What they were based on was the ability to bundle the bad loans in among others so it wasn't completely obvious the buyer was buying shite. And when the buyers began to see that they were buying sh#t, they still knew they could simply sell the sh#t and make money off the transaction. And a merry go round of selling sh#t bundles ensued, and eventually....the crash.
Aw well, somewhere the other day I saw a quote about "only fools believing Utopia was possible" or some such. Believe it or not, until that moment I actually thought "If only people weren't greedy/dishonest/manipulative, etc...." That's wishful, and stooopid, thinking,was the insight I finally accepted. There will ALWAYS be people who will take advantage of others. Always. It may be a sickness of mind that makes a person look around and say "screw 'em, I'm getting mine, and theirs," but it's a sickness there is no cure for. NO amount of "enough for all" will stop it, no risk of punishment will either.
But I will still hold on to the belief that one doesn't need to sink to that level to survive, as is what happens when all hope is lost. I still have hope.
And, also the awareness that there are levels, and though I wouldn't sell sh#t packaged loans, I am not pure as the driven snow either. The "wrong" that I do is hard enough to see and say "I won't do that any longer."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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people in denial
Are you on crack? Who do you think bailed out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Santa Claus?
What are the VA Loan, FHA Federal Home Loan, and the USDA Rural Loan Programs if not
government subsidized?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:41am PT
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Oh yes, it's those greedy poor people again.....always trying to find ways to milk the system.
Will they never learn that the system is designed for only the wealthy to milk?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:52am PT
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FNMA and FHLMC paid back the government, AIG also to some extent.
Most of the private money lost when Bear Sterns went under was never recovered. Their stock dropped from $93 and Chase almost bought it for $2, a class action bought it to $10, a bloodbath nonetheless. Plenty of private money lost.
The Federal programs had underwriting requirements that were ignored or skirted by unscrupulous PRIVATE parties
There was a massive influx of money from Europe that ballooned the market, they needed loans to eat the money up. Zero to do with government programs that existed for decades without a problem, and continue to exist.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:00am PT
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What they were based on was the ability to bundle the bad loans in among others so it wasn't completely obvious the buyer was buying shite. And when the buyers began to see that they were buying sh#t, they still knew they could simply sell the sh#t and make money off the transaction. And a merry go round of selling sh#t bundles ensued, and eventually....the crash.
This is one part of the story that never really made sense. Why didn't the buyers of the "shit packaged loans" do diligence so that they paid a fair price for them, if they were to buy them at all? That is basically what institutional investors do, or at least what they're supposed to do.
I don't expect you to be able to answer that; it's just kind of a mystery.
Anyway, this is a digression. The important point is that even though Obama came in after the 2008 meltdown, he generally had a pessimistic and gloomy demeanor and it was really tough to get the economy revved up while he was around.
Trump is basically a phony of course, but he's a promoter and salesman and I think that is maybe what we need now (speaking just for the economy)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:17am PT
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I don't expect you to be able to answer that; it's just kind of a mystery.
It is simple, irrational exuberance
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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I think that many buyers relied on brokers telling them it was a good deal. The brokers made THEIR money, on the transaction, as they always do.
And I think many brokers knew damned well what was going on. D'ya think any of them is really going to admit it, though?
It was a con game.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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The ratings agencies did their part in this, certifying the quality of things that were actually terrible. One of my favorite explanations:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
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I owned a very high volume mortgage company, originating and selling many hundreds of millions of dollars in MBS's.
Some points of clarification - FHA and VA loans are little to no down payment and any default losses are paid to the servicer by the pool of paid in premium money.
As such, FHA and VA loans defaulting were a quite minor part of the financial collapse.
It was non government or conventional mortgage underwriting that was the major contributing factor, specifically the "stated and not verified income" loans that defaulted
Those loans required down payments of typically 25%, with 75% being financed.
There is nothing wrong in theory with "liars" loans, because lenders are usually just fine if they default with substantial equity remaining and could easily be sold and often at a profit.
But the elephant is the room was the Republican House, Senate, and Presidency leading up to and during the meltdown, and the "conservative" attitude that market should be largely unregulated, free, free, like puppies, and that "big government" regulation was somehow undesirable.
And so during those critical years the mortgage market was ignored and underwriting guidelines were not toughened, and yes that is 100% "blame" of the Bush Administration.
But it was not only mortgage underwriting, it was the creation of CDO's, or Collateralized Debt Obligations that caused the collapse. Briefly, this is when you mix in car and credit loan loans to raise the overall yield backed by mortgage packaging.
And that was very much underwritten by S&P and Moodys, yes it was those guys who failed to reduce the bond ratings CDO's when deep in the bowels of the loan servicing companies the first waves of defaults started to come in.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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hmmm, so the poor folks hoodwinked the big azz banks into creating this securitized debt while simultaneously conning AIG into insuring it, it all makes sense now
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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poor folks
You know it Jon! Nothing more dangerous to society and the figurative 'pot O'gold' than the poor folk, nothing!
It sure in the hell isn't all those current admin appointees, corporate tax breaks, etc. I mean by just shear numbers, the poor folk will always win, always. There are more poor folk than there are corporations in this country and that should scare you, especially if you are an older white male!! Look at all that free stuff the last admin gave them and on top of that, WELFARE!
F my current house, I'm going shopping for a poor house so I can start living more like an American!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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After President Obama took office his Democrats passed a very good financial regulation legislation known as Dodd-Frank, which essentially required banks to act more like banks and less as market speculators.
And now the Republican Congress has weakened that regulation
---------------
That same Republican congress has just passed into law a massive tax cut to further enrich the already rich, with corporate taxes cut from 35 down to 21%.
The nonpartisan CBO estimates this will add over one trillion dollars to the national debt
can you say hypocrisy? this from the party of "financial responsibility"
-
The DOW was up 233% while Obama was President, the DOW fell 50% and the US economy went into the Great Recession under Republican President Bush
----
increasing waiting periods between application and gun purchases directly lessens gun suicide
gun suicide is, by far, the leading result of handgun possession v murder
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
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Check the defaults of folks who bought additional "homes" {3, 4, 5}? if you want to see where the real problem was.
HINT: The problem was not one-home buying "poor" people…
Anyway how much did Herr Braun weigh in the blaster photo?
Floats like a butterfly wouln't sting B
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
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And now the Republican Congress has weakened that regulation
Not so fast there Naughton, my frikkin senator did, Jon Tester is his name and rolling in the $$ is his game. I agree with most of his politics and appreciate his candor of the past but it seems as though DC might have changed him the last couple years? It seems like a disease most catch, if they don't already have it. Warren and Sanders are ~the~ couple to respect IMHO.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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good old fashioned unrestrained laissez faire capitalism
Yes, like 19th century London with 500,000 starving to death in the Lower East End and 50,000 prostitutes on the streets spreading disease. No child labor laws. Pedophile's delight! All that optimistic progress heading headlong for the trenches of WWI.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
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Trump is truly grasping at anything and everything to distract the discussion away from the Trump Show, and onto matters that are passe, settled, irrelevant, or simply never existed within the reality perceived by the other 7 billion people on the planet.
Trump's latest Twitter-attack accuses Amazon of defrauding the Postal Service, and not paying taxes.
Amazon pays postage to have the Post Office deliver packages to people, which is a concept children understand. Bulk mailing discounts are taught at the Wharton School of Business, which Trump supposedly attended.
Amazon doesn't pay any Federal income tax, but that is the new standard for many corporations. There is a long list of corporations that don't pay any Federal tax.
Trump may have intentionally driven Amazon's stock value down ($30 billion, so far) to benefit his short-selling insider-trading pals. Trump's inane tweets have created market disruptions in the past, which would be highly consistent with inverted pump-and-dump stock fraud schemes.
The real answer is probably a mixture of the two: feeding inside information to his buddies about a sudden drop in Amazon's stock price, and a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from Stormy Daniels.
Trump won't directly address the Stormy Daniels situation. The basis for his unusual silence in the matter can be inferred from the following known facts:
Stormy Daniels is a porn star
She is also a porn film producer
She engaged in sex acts with Trump
Cellphone cameras existed at that time
Trump allowed her to playfully spank him
Trump has a craving for flattery and attention
Trump is obsessed with his television show ratings
Trump is a minor actor who has appeared in a few films
The NDA between her and Trump required surrender of films
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
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oh my, still have Obama Derangement Syndrome, honey boo? hard to get over....
just can't stand the very idea of a only half white President?
name your sources, your "opinion" is the same as your vote for the Groper in Chief
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Mar 29, 2018 - 05:34pm PT
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One aspect of us humans is our tendency to form our own insular tribes. We yearn to be included, and our psyche is pre-programmed to be defensive of our tribes.
Nationalism taps into this in a big way. Make it us vs. "them" and spout off a list of scary rhetoric (real or BS) and you can rally a following. Make folks feel like their livelihood or even their lives are on the line due to outsiders and they'll suspend rational thought to defend their tribe.
Trump and other nationalist's have tapped into this in a big way. Real and imagined mistreatments are used to rally large swaths of the populous together. Want blue collar folks on your side, start thrashing on colleges and evil liberals. Want the the working class on your side, spout off against immigrants and tech companies. Want to defeat gun control, claim any gun law leads to enslavement by the government. Don't want those folks to second guess any of that, then either take over the media or vilify it.
Tribalism shows up from the micro level (friends, family, coworkers), to the macro (American, christian, white/black, and what have you). Dye a bunch of folks purple and they'll form together as a group without even realizing what their brains have done to their behavior.
I expect that in a world where there has been too much injustice and suffering that has not been well tended to by the elite that we will continue to see a fertile field for nationalism to thrive in for some time. Trump, Putin, Duerte, and others are but a sign of the times.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Defending the Amazon postal deal as good business is laughable.
Good for who? Care to elaborate? it is a very complex subject with a lot of nuance. Most of which goes over Trumps head.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Deal Artist (soon to be The Disaster Artist) alleges he is the absolute master of his arcane negotiation craft.
Now, he's complaining that the Postal System entered into a bad business deal with Amazon. Instead of addressing the allegedly bad deal in some rational fashion, he threw a Trumper-Tantrum to elicit, what? Sympathy for the Post Office? Anger at Amazon? Risible contempt for himself?
The self-styled Picasso of the paperwork, Da Vinci of the details, and Frederico of the fine-print should invest his allegedly superior deal-making skills into a more favorable contract with Amazon.
Instead, he Twitter-attacks Amazon in a childish fit of rage to feed his attention addiction.
EDIT:
DING-DING-DING-DING-DING
And, we have a winner . . . . . . . .
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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It's not about Amazon, and it's not about the USPS. It's about the WaPo.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:38pm PT
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t's not about Amazon, and it's not about the USPS. It's about the WaPo.
Yes, the same guy who owns Amazon also owns the Washington Post, and the WP publishes unflattering things about Trumposaurus.
Nice petty little feud.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 30, 2018 - 01:32am PT
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Bulk mailing discounts are taught at the Wharton School of Business, which Trump supposedly attended.
Just to be clear, mr Dennison did NOT attend the Wharton School of Business, a very prestigious post graduate school whose MBA program is considered the best in the World.
He attended the much less prestigious undergraduate program at the Wharton school, where he got a bs in economics, not business.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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Many states are getting screwed out of taxes because of online commerce.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 30, 2018 - 08:15am PT
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I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 30, 2018 - 08:20am PT
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want to bet its market rate?
$50/night when he can actually find a receipt or cancelled check.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.
Well you can get an Amazon Prime credit card that gives you 5% on back onpurchases, and you also get Prime video and music services, which are pretty good.
All in all, it's a good deal--only problem is you're making another super-rich liberal instigator (Bezos) even richer, but you gotta make some compromises in life, so I go with Amazon.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 30, 2018 - 09:26am PT
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yes, now we finally have it figured out!
it needs to be pointed out that "liberals" that are so successful in business that they make fortunes!
oh the ravages of unbridled capitalism
and when we talk about employees, it is important to also mention the political orientation of the company owner, in this case liberal
example: I am just so mad about the working conditions in a Tyson chicken slaughtering plant, those poor workers, low paid with only moderate healthcare, killing chickens all day long, and it needs to be noted that the owner of Tyson is a "conservative", how dare he make as much money as he can in America
oh the horrors
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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Oh hey we're all for a living wage for a safe wholesome day's work, and having good government and an economy where small businesses can thrive and grow.
Except when it comes to our own pocket books. Then it's screw local government, screw the workers, screw small businesses and get the tax payers to subsidize that 2-day shipping.
THIS.
It makes me so angry when people spout that they either A) Buy at such and such that beats out prices because they cannot afford to pay more(ever heard of "doing without," when it comes to yet another cute tank top, prettified cel phone case, or winter jacket when you have a closet with several already in it?) or B)Why should I NOT pay the least I can?
It's one thing if the person will admit they are a selfish prick/cunt who would/will step on anyone else just to get ahead of them; these people are what they are. But when they spout a "caring attitude," and then the eyes glaze over when reading/hearing something like what DMT just put out, then....I'm not CERTAIN I would use the word "hypocrite;" I reserve that word for things a little more cut and dry, like a pol who preaches anti-abortion, while either paying out for one, or putting pressure on a woman to have one. But I know that I think negatively when I hear/see it.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 30, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.
I have looked at the price of an item with and without the Amazon Prime account and sometimes the price without Amazon prime is cheaper, even with shipping.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 30, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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Something is definitely awry.
Classic monopolistic strategy.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 30, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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Yeah, I scratch my head on some of the deals. It is not just Amazon/USPS making deals. I had a complete motor ($750) for my Subaru shipped from San Diego to Monticello UT for FREE, go figure. It was UPS so there must have been some kind of special deal cuz UPS is not cheap. The only requirement was that the recipient take the motor off the truck.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 30, 2018 - 10:03am PT
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Nothing is 'free'. When you do hella volume you can offer all kinds of great dealios but somebody is paying for it.
Take those frikkin sky miles c-cards. The card company charge the business a higher percentage on the sale to pay for those miles, thus reducing the business's margin. If it is a Ma and Pa or brick and mortar gig, you take a significant hit. Enough hits make it hard to stay in business. Frikkin cheap humans will end up with what they deserve.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 30, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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why does it matter that the owner of Amazon prefers Democratic, Dingus?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 30, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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Amazon is a sweatshop. Their warehouse workers are driven like dogs. They suffer from repetitive stress injury and very poor oversight and the company kicks them to the curb when they get hurt.
Don't worry too much. They won't have repetitive stress injury for much longer. Just as soon they are replaced by robots.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Mar 30, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
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Oh hey we're all for a living wage for a safe wholesome day's work, and having good government and an economy where small businesses can thrive and grow.
Except when it comes to our own pocket books. Then it's screw local government, screw the workers, screw small businesses and get the tax payers to subsidize that 2-day shipping.
THIS.
It makes me so angry when people spout that they either A) Buy at such and such that beats out prices because they cannot afford to pay more(ever heard of "doing without," when it comes to yet another cute tank top, prettified cel phone case, or winter jacket when you have a closet with several already in it?) or B)Why should I NOT pay the least I can?
It's one thing if the person will admit they are a selfish prick/cunt who would/will step on anyone else just to get ahead of them; these people are what they are. But when they spout a "caring attitude," and then the eyes glaze over when reading/hearing something like what DMT just put out, then....I'm not CERTAIN I would use the word "hypocrite;" I reserve that word for things a little more cut and dry, like a pol who preaches anti-abortion, while either paying out for one, or putting pressure on a woman to have one. But I know that I think negatively when I hear/see it.
Rapacious capitalism is rapacious. Full stop. Expecting different is tilting at windmills, and will result in a slap in the face from the Invisible Hand.
However, capitalists do respond to incentives and laws. Jobs need to pay some decent minimum wage, so an inflation adjusted living wage should be the minimum wage. I believe in modest friction at the borders in the form of tariff's and immigration quotas to keep mega-corps from arbitraging wages to outside the country, free trade has gone too far IMO. Healthcare needs to be a right, and is a terrible fit for the capitalistic model.
So if you want Amazon to be a better company, pass laws that require it to behave in a more societally responsible fashion. If they do it purely voluntarily they leave themselves open for the next outfit (AKA Walmart, Target, etc) to undercut them and do that exact same thing, following the exact same laws.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 30, 2018 - 01:55pm PT
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The hourly rate of pay for an Amazon warehouse worker is $12.84/hr plus health insurance
I don't think that is bad or taking advantage at all
This is work that any healthy person can do and without college education.
No one has to work such a job, it is clearly their choice. so what exactly is wrong with this?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
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So if you want Amazon to be a better company, pass laws that require it to behave in a more societally responsible fashion. If they do it purely voluntarily they level themselves open for the next outfit (AKA Walmart, Target, etc) to undercut them and do that exact same thing, following the exact same laws.
I completely agree with what you have written. Interestingly, Patagonia has been able to do what "should" be impossible, if what you say is an absolute. Perhaps it's because Patgonia stuff is pretty much completely non-essential, I guess.
The hourly rate of pay for an Amazon warehouse worker is $12.84/hr plus health insurance
How long do you think you could sustain yourself on $13/hour? I'm not talking about your present situation, whatever it may be. I'm saying - throw out what you have. It's just you, but you do have shelter cost,and transportation costs. Because, you know - those Amazon warehouses generally aren't within walking distance from home, and most people do have shelter cost. What does your life look like, on $13/hour? What can you afford to pay for shelter, transportation, car insurance if you have a vehicle, and how much left over for food and everything else?
I can tell you that in New Paltz, NY where I live, there is no way I could pay rent, my car insurance, and eat, on $13/hour, rent being the dealbreaker. Because I made $12.50/hour last year and will probably make $13 this year. I can do fine, if I am careful, but I have zero cost for shelter. If my car breaks down unexpectedly, that could be a problem.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Mar 30, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
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Wandering waaaay off on a tangent...
I have looked at the price of an item with and without the Amazon Prime account and sometimes the price without Amazon prime is cheaper, even with shipping. Interesting -- I knew that Amazon used algorithms to vary prices on an individual basis, but hadn't bothered to experiment with it much. Someone should set up a site to do arbitrage between customers.
I'm not an Amazon fan, and would avoid them more if the local alternatives weren't so terrible. For example, I needed some bubble-mailers the other day, so I walked over to the local Office Depot, and saw that they were almost 3x the price on Amazon. Having worked at a computer shop as a teenager, I'm guessing Office Depot has a 900% markup on office supplies, like we did with cables, to subsidize the 10% markups on big-ticket items.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 30, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
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But, advanced technology is not the villain -- capitalism is.
But advanced technology - robotics and automation - are what's going to make work and labor as we have known them since the 19th century industrial revolution, in a word, obsolete.
I'm sure it's alright to work in an Amazon warehouse for low wages if you live at home with your parents in a Prop 13 house in the 'burbs. It's if you're trying to work in an Amazon warehouse and have children and a future, that things rapidly become ugly. The whole point is that unskilled labor has become obsolete for a huge segment of the working population who still harbor unrealistic ambitions carried over from the boom years from 1945 to 1973 when the US standard of living was higher. That's why a huge segment of the population is angry and resentful and looking for a scapegoat to punish.
Like Thomas Carlyle put in during the 1830s, we're living in a age of transition. A whole class of working people in the US is rapidly becoming redundant and will emigrate elsewhere or die off.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 30, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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People becoming disaffected in a time of change is nothing new. It’s arguably been going on since the Middle Ages. The last great wave of disaffection occurred in the 1890’s with the rise of the populist party in response to Henry George’s tome Progess and Poverty written in 1979 after he witnessed extreme destitution amidst great wealth in San Francisco after the civil war.
http://www.henrygeorge.org/pdfs/PandP_Drake.pdf
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 30, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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my younger brother works for the Amazon warehouse in Duluth, Minnesota
being my brother I am in very close touch with him and he talks frequently about his job
what exactly IS your problem, Dingus?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 30, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
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DMT - I looked at one hit on your google search and learned that Amazon provides health insurance, retirement plan from day one. The pay is decent. sure the work sucks, but as noted in the article, it is a job, not a career.
I have friends at UPS, sorting in their hubs is just as F'ed up. Lots of people can not hack it. He stuck it out, has full bennies with a part time job, and makes decent coin.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 05:59pm PT
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Norton - What is the job title your brother has, if I may ask? Is he an hourly floor worker? Supervisor? Manager?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 30, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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My nephew works for the Big A also, but I think he is over minimum wage.
They gave him an apartment across the street from Emirates Stadium in London.
Before that he was a slave in Luxembourg. They’re heartless.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 30, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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Good corporate citizenship has devolved into grinding employees of all stripe for their money, and the business using the cash to make charitable donations that look good on the society page.
And when the companies are collecting donations, it ain't even their OWN MONEY they're taking credit for being so charitable with...
Meanwhile, as seen on Craigslist:
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/lgl/d/seeking-lead-attorney-for/6544195570.html
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 11:17pm PT
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Looks like there may be some common ground right/left here. Amazon's model has developed some real problems, IMO. Not so much with what they pay their workers, rather, with the excessive market power they are developing. What recently got me head scratching was their opening of several brick-and-mortar book stores--that look suspiciously like the ones they put out of business over the last decade. Not to mention the thousands of mom and pops that went under. Update, in some cases they are now charging the same or more for a title transmitted to my Kindle. WTF?
And how the hell did they get the USPS to run around like little lap dogs on Sundays?? While taxpayers lose billions every year.
And now they want to enter the health care market? Hell no. In any event, more likely Bezos is simply leaking press-release influence to sway markets where he holds quite a stash and has no plan to jump in. I guess we'll see.
And yes, as a moderate-to-conservative pro-capitalist guy it bothers me that Bezos has turned a once-decent newspaper, The Washington Post, into his personal blog. "Because Democracy Dies in Darkness." Like he gives a sh#t.
Capitalism needs to be protected from its own excesses from time to time. Amazon is a "prime" example.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 31, 2018 - 08:51am PT
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President Spanky is uncharacteristically silent about the Stormy Daniels suit.. Sara Sanders claims he's too busy running the country ( golfing ) to tweet about the suit..
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 31, 2018 - 09:00am PT
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"boring work in a prison camp environment"...
Even worse he was threatened with demotion into the women's unit
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 31, 2018 - 09:00am PT
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Birthday suit?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Mar 31, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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With any luck, she has images of Trump in his birthday suit
With any luck, I won't see that image ;-)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 31, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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President Spanky claims he didn't know about the NDA...? Doesn't that invalidate the agreement allowing Stormy to share all about his Innie..?
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Mar 31, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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Working for naked emperors you’re tainted
While telling yourself they must be sainted
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 31, 2018 - 10:11am PT
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And now they want to enter the health care market?
I just saw something about Walmart wanting to buy Humana(I think, it was some health/insurance related thing).
So...what's this all really about? Why would such profit-mongering companies be looking at "getting into the healthcare game?"
Meanwhile - Trump "declares" April to be Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Except April has BEEN Sexual Assault Awareness Month for several years already.
Really, it's just terrifying. How could he be THAT stupid, that he wouldn't understand that 1) there is documentation that it's "already a thing," and 2) That the only thing "new" about his proclamation are the jokes being made about HIM with regards to sexual assault, and he has completely set himself up for it.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 31, 2018 - 12:05pm PT
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The cat scratched moron is now weighing in
"Take my advice you'd be better off dead" Ted
Ask a physicist about protons, photons, electrons ...
But everybody knows morons attract one another
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Mar 31, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
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Rapacious capitalism is rapacious.
Herbert Hoover said that the problem with capitalism was that capitalists are too greedy.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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President Spanky claims he didn't know about the NDA...? Doesn't that invalidate the agreement allowing Stormy to share all about his Innie?
That is only one of a balf-dozen reasons the Stormy Daniels NDA is invalid on its face. Stormy Daniels' attorney will very likely get the ruling he wants, that the contract has never been valid.
Trump's attorney Michael Cohen claimed that he set up the LLC, drafted the NDA and paid the hush-money himself, without consulting or notifying Trump. Cohen entered into the contract on behalf of his client, Trump, without his knowledge or permission. That not only invalidates the contract, but should result in Cohen being stripped of his law license.
Of course, all of that is just nonsense. Any reasonable person would conclude that Trump knew all about the NDA, the payment and how it would benefit his campaign. The current fiction is a pathetic attempt to deny that the $130,000 payment was an illegal campaign contribution.
Trump, Cohen and Co. are so worried about the Mueller prosecution machine, and its forthcoming Vulcan cannon barrage of indictments, they have no mental energy to deal with Stormy Daniels. Trump's legal team has made mistake after mistake after mistake. Next week's lies will conflict with last week's lies. They will soon move to privately enforce the terms of the NDA in arbitration, allowing Daniels' attorney to publicly contest the NDA's validity in Federal court before a jury. Avenatti will call Trump as a witness, and Trump will fall into the perjury trap he has set for himself.
Trump and his lawyers are thugs engaged in legal buffoonery.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 31, 2018 - 09:21pm PT
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That's why the Nuge is stepping up his verbosity
Deflection
Did Ted sign an NDA?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
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The Motor City Madman didn't sign an NDA.
He is a lifetime member of the NDA - National Dipshit Association.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 31, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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Trump will fall into the perjury trap he has set for himself.
hopefully soon.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 31, 2018 - 11:04pm PT
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That not only invalidates the contract, but should result in Cohen being stripped of his law license.
To play the devil's advocate, why couldn't Cohen enter into a binding contract with Stormy, wherein Stormy agreed to STFU. Under such a contract Trump would have no standing to enforce it. Or would he have standing as an intended third party beneficiary (ius quaesitum tertio)? Probably.
As for the ethics question. Cohen has a duty to Trump to act in his best interest. If such a scenario works for Trump and no laws are broken then there is no harm.
Of course Cohen's version of the events do not pass the smell test. The same BS brought down John Edwards.
Trump will not get a jury on the issue of validity of the arbitration agreement, judge will decide it, but it will be public, with discovery.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 04:40am PT
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Cohen, by himself, could have entered into an agreement with Stormy Daniels, paid her himself, and that would have been the end of it. Trump could have been a third party beneficiary without getting entangled.
But, Cohen is a thug practicing legal buffoonery.
The LLC and NDA were set up in such a way that Cohen represented a client, not himself. They were claiming that Trump was not the client, but are not saying who was. But, if Trump was not a party to the contract, then why is his specific performance (staying silent, and staying away from Daniels) part of what Daniels got in exchange for her silence? And, why is there a place for Trump to sign the contract? The obvious answer is that they were lying.
Trump now wants to intimidate Stormy Daniels with a $20 million judgement for breaking the contract. The LLC can't be a party to arbitration, so Trump is saying that he is the beneficiary of the contract. This directly contradicts everything he and his attorneys had been saying. It also indicates that the $130,000 payment was an illegal campaign contribution, which will bring the special counsel around soon enough.
Legal buffoonery, all the way around.
Instead of just walking away, and letting the porn star talk about "textbook generic" sex in a hotel room, Trump and his thugs keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper. It's as if they are scared Putin will poison them, so they all want to be indicted, convicted and imprisoned as quickly as possible for their own protection.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Maybe Cohen just had a standing order to make those NDA's with the people Trump humped, and maybe Trump had set up a fund beforehand, to be used in such situations. In the Universe of DT, that seems the way he might think/act. "So, in the future, if I ever mention that I screwed(or whatever) So and So, you take care of it, with the funds from this specific account. And we never actually discuss it."
"Me so smart," he thinks, that technically he's not lying.
Perhaps that might be legally so; I'm no attorney.
I wonder how much money, though, if that was the case, his attornies embezzled over the years, deciding "this one isn't in a position to do anything," or realizing that DT has the attention span of a wart and is actually too stupid to hire a third party to balance the account, so to speak.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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The Stooge, hardly a great rocker. Some folks would rather watch paint dry than Ted.
"Cat Scratch Fever" – 3:39 (from the 1977 album Cat Scratch Fever)
"Just What the Doctor Ordered" – 3:42 (from the 1975 album Ted Nugent)
"Free-for-All" – 3:21 (from the 1976 album Free-for-All)
"Dog Eat Dog" – 4:03 (from the 1976 album Free-for-All)
"Motor City Madhouse" – 4:27 (from the 1975 album Ted Nugent)
"Paralyzed" – 4:11 (from the 1979 album State of Shock)
"Stranglehold" – 8:24 (from the 1975 album Ted Nugent)
"Baby Please Don't Go" (live) – 5:58 (from the 1978 live album Double Live Gonzo!)
"Wango Tango" – 4:49 (from the 1980 album Scream Dream)
"Wang Dang Sweet Poontang (live) – 6:27 (from the 1978 live album Double Live Gonzo!)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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Maybe Cohen just had a standing order to make those NDA's with the people Trump humped, and maybe Trump had set up a fund beforehand, to be used in such situations.
Some legal analysts on CNN and MSNBC are saying that Trump may have had a slush fund to finance various cover-ups. That would be a page directly out of the Nixon playbook, which Trump has already referenced with his firing of the FBI investigators.
The legal analysts also suggest that Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal are just the tip of the iceberg. They say that Trump is the most vulnerable president in history because he can be blackmailed by so many people.
Aventatti says eight other women have contacted him, and at least two say there were NDAs involved. Avenatti's not ready to reveal details yet, because Avenatti is not engaging in legal buffoonery. Like Mueller, he's very carefully playing out the cards of his winning hand.
Avenatti says he is playing 3-dimensional chess, but Trump and Cohen are playing tic-tac-toe, and not very well.
He doesn't know me, but I will go down fast and hard, crying all the way.
President Trump, in a rare flash of self-awareness
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Why the furor over Trump's secret affairs...? He's said all along he's pro-life...Is it his fault his mistresses use of birth control were covered under a NDA... ? Hopefully the religious right recognize this injustice and continue to support Lord Spanky the victim...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Trump has me worried. His behavior is setting an unbelievably low bar for those who follow. His base is uneducated white people. He feeds them red meat everyday on Twitter, and they lap it up.
The finest newspapers in the country are now suspect because they call him out on his regular bald lies.
In Trump world, Fox & Friends and Sean Hannity set his agenda. He watches TV, doesn’t read, and is generally a completely unethical circus promoter.
Congress, unfortunately, has been his lap dog. It will be interesting to see if they lose in the midterms. They need to show their loyalty to Trump to make it through the primaries, and that will bite them square in the ass in the general elections. I have never liked one party rule, so I am rooting for the Democrats to retake the House.
Hardly a day goes by without some sort of monumental screwup. We shall see if the populace has noticed or if Fox News has them brainwashed.
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Trump
climber
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You people are still having wet dreams about me falling into a perjury trap?
Alrighty then, just don’t blame me when you lose your pants by betting against how good a liar I am. Again.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tell me more, Georgie Boy, tell me more . . . . . . . . .
To whom and how did this Facebook censoring take place? I don't know anything about using Facebook. Do I just use the Facebook search engine Foogle to look up "supertopo trump scandal jeering hecklers"?
Hopefully the religious right recognize this injustice and continue to support Lord Spanky the victim...
The Evangelicals have been making the CNN and MSNBC rounds, explaining how they reconcile Trump with their incongruous support for him. Their canned responses all sound the same:
We didn't vote for Trump because he was morally acceptable to us. We voted for Trump because of where he stands on the issues.
The logical extension of that argument is that if the devil himself showed up, the religious hypocrites would vote for him as long as his social agenda aligned with their own.
The fallacious reasoning that allows the Evangelicals to sleep at night is known as a pro homine defense. It can comprise the argument that the person has done so many good things, his crime(s) should be ignored, or at least excused.
A typical application of this false reasoning is when character witnesses attest to a defendant's good moral character. The flaw in the argument is the (false) premise that a person's behavior is consistent, and that a person who has exhibited good behavior in the past is incapable of bad behavior now. Or, that "paying it forward" allows a "good" person to "accidentally" misbehave, and simply have a few Karma points deducted as his only penalty.
In the case of Trump, the flawed argument is twisted upside down to read:
We, the Trump apologists, have benefited greatly from Trump's deeds (or misdeeds); ergo, Trump is a good man who deserves an unlimited number of Mulligans.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
TREY GOWDY EDIT:
Those two guys provide some possible hope for the Republican Party. They're breaking ranks with the doomed business-as-usual GOP gang.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
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THE THREE WAYS AN ANIMAL REACTS WHEN A HUNTER APPROACHES
1) - A bear, or a bull elephant, will charge at the hunter, believing that might makes right. They think noise and intimidation will save the day. But, just one good shot is enough to take them down.
2) - A deer will flee through the trees, bounding away quickly. Speed and distance equals safety for the timid and easily spooked.
3) - A duck will hide in the reeds, and remain as quiet as possible. The plan is the hunter will pass by, and go shoot something else.
President Trump is a #1, loudly charging down the seven spinning barrels of Robert Mueller's indictment-issuing Gatling machine.
Hope Hicks is a #2, running away because continuing to lie for Trump is not worth a stretch in Danbury.
Jared Kushner is a #3, hiding behind his attorney, being as quiet as possible, and praying that Mueller will forget to indict him.
EDIT VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Seeking consistency and logic from the GOP and the right is a fool's errand. Their true mantra is "Anybody but . . . " (fill in the blank). They are not for Trump, so much as they are against Hillary (or any Democrat).
Their ludicrous plan of "voting the lesser of two evils" is now playing out against them, and they are loudly trying to justify their prior stupidity at the polls.
The right likes their tax cut, and just ignores the deficit that someone else will have to deal with. This is just like how they want to criminalize abortion, and then it will be someone else who has to deal with illegal back-alley abortions.
Ditsy Davos wants to teach children that Jesus rode a dinosaur into Bethlehem because that makes it easier for her, and other inheritance plutocrats, to control the masses.
Trump's primary promise that he has kept is working very hard to deceive the public, and ensure that the wealthiest people benefit the most from his policies. Both promises (to deceive and to shift wealth upwards) were implicit in his speeches, but his voters were too stupid to recognize what he was really saying.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Norton! Re your question on what promise Trump has kept.
I do think his promises to roll back environmental restrictions & "make coal great again" have not been all that sucessfull, but he & his EPA Secretary are doing their best to make America horribly & more dangerously polluted again.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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I don't think any of us really knows what is going on. The media lens is heavily distorting things.
Time may tell.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The media has been remarkably correct, so has the Steele dossier.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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The Evangelicals have been making the CNN and MSNBC rounds, explaining how they reconcile Trump with their incongruous support for him. Their canned responses all sound the same:
We didn't vote for Trump because he was morally acceptable to us. We voted for Trump because of where he stands on the issues.
I saw an interview with Billy Graham's son Franklin. Franklin was asked how he could support trump, who is guilty of moral terpitude. Franklin responded "he's a work in progress."
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Aren't we all.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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I've done a bit of sinning, but I didn't have enough money to make it into a political career.
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Trump
climber
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Other people should vote the way I think they should vote for the reasons I think they should vote that way, and if they don’t, they must just be doing it wrong.
I like the idea of believing that a duck has a plan. Birds fly, humans do this believing thing.
Oh hey, look who’s president!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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So, the Republicans believe that the US would be far better off if many gov't functions were privatized: The VA, Social Security, National Lands, etc.
But we don't have to speculate as to what the outcome would be if that were done. The experiment was carried out, in Russia:
Teams of American economists thought that if you privatized property correctly, the law and order and social cohesion would take care of themselves.
Social catastrophe followed. Russia’s average life expectancy fell below that of Bangladesh. The government went bankrupt. Members of the old Communist nomenklatura plundered the nation’s resources.
Of course, if you are a member of the "inner group" that has access to the resources, you look forward to this, as it represents an unholy opportunity to take things away from the people, and turn them into your own.
People like John E. support this, and his carefully contrived show to discourage people from voting for Clinton, and continually downplaying Trumps chances for election, really made this option really possible.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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David Brooks:
Putinism is based on the idea that people who are unlike you are sowing cultural chaos; they are undermining your way of life. Putin is continually railing against gays, Muslims, atheists, the “infertile and genderless” West.
In times of anxiety and distrust, it’s a lot easier to sell us/them distinctions than tolerance for cultural diversity.
In short, never underestimate this man or his cause. All over the world political regimes are adjusting, becoming either a little more authoritarian or a little more democratic. Right now, the momentum is clearly in the authoritarian direction. That’s in part because that side has a brilliant and reckless figure at its head. It’s also because when you pause to ask who is the global leader of the liberal democratic camp, you come up with no name at all.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump lied about McCabe.....? Shocking...!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2018 - 10:13pm PT
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Sinclair Broadcasting owns hundreds of local TV and radio stations across the United States. Sinclair is forcing local news anchors to read a corporate-mandated script about "fake news" that implies other sources (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) can't be trusted. The company provided wardrobe and posturing instructions to its news anchors, to ensure they project a "non-political" image while reading the statement. The script warning viewers about fake news doesn't mention the $13 million fine Sinclair recently paid because it had broadcast paid ads that were disguised to look like news stories (i.e., "fake news").
Not surprisingly, Trump tweeted his approval for Sinclair's fake news heads-up statement. Sinclair is currying favor with Trump because of a pending Sinclair takeover of the Tribune TV and radio stations. Sinclair is establishing a pervasive autocratic media system, like an American version of Pravda .
At the same time, the Roseanne Barr Show has been exhumed, and is back on TV. The episodes are newly made, not reruns, and are chock-full of unfunny musings on current events. Playing an older version of her former character, Barr is the opinionated housewife of an uneducated blue-collar family who voted for Trump. Roseanne Barr, in real life, supports Trump, and blathers online about long-debunked fringe conspiracies, like Hillary Clinton's child sex slave dungeon below a pizza parlor. The line between Barr's character and the real person is gone, and Barr's off-screen, real-life political antics are presented as if they were bonus episodes of the TV show.
Not surprisingly, Barr's new show is a big hit in the Midwest, and a flop on both coasts.
The Trump propaganda machine is shifting into a higher gear. It wants to discredit the Russian investigation so that the forthcoming mountain of evidence can be dismissed as "fake evidence". Right-wing pundits, like Sean Hannity, will say factual indictments and evidence are fake, and compare them to the Clinton Pizzagate hoax.
As Mueller gets closer and closer to Trump, he and his supporters will become more and more desperate in their autocratic maneuvering to stay in power. It is likely that aberrant behavior coming out of Moscow will also increase.
On a more humorous note, here is President Trump making a speech to young children at the annual White House Easter Egg Roll. Watch Melania's reaction as Trump's speech rambles into subject matter wholly inappropriate for the audience and the occasion.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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An only slightly cryptic post from John Schindler on his @TheSpyBrief Twitter. because it's a pay-for account, I cannot quote, but he states that it's time to declare your fealty to Trump or your opposition; that there should still be mercy for those who honestly "don't get it," but from now on "not getting it" is a choice.
You'll have to subscribe if you want to discuss that further, or if you are one of the "don't get its" and have begun to question your position and want to learn why it is that the majority of people around the world(not just the US, and discounting those who have no limited or no access to media) are opposed.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Corey Booker.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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that would contend that some of trump voters were innocents
Yes, it would, and I have no problem allowing that. At all. Frankly, I have had concerns that everything I myself have been counting on is smoke and mirror, calming the masses until we get the chop. While I don't THINK that is what is going on, I sure won't say I positively know it ain't. What I DO know, is that SOMETHING is going on, and whatever it is is serious, and a historic chain of events in the history of this country, if not the world.
Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?
I don't think about that, until the candidates begin to present themselves. I shamedly have to admit that when Obama got nominated, I was like "Really? You think the US is going to elect a black man? We can kiss this election good bye."
But, I don't think Trump will be running, if that's anything.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?
DMT
Who we need are moderates. Unfortunately, the current political climate is unusually adversarial, which tilts the primaries towards hardliners, like Trump, Sanders or Warren.
From the GOP, I'd like to see Kasich, Huntsman or Sasse step up. If Nikki Haley ran, I'd campaign for her, even though she's got a nasty Trump taint to overcome.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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It will interesting to see who runs against Trump. Rubio is smeared with Trump stink, he blew it. Kaisch has the best chance of beating a liberal. Flake is obviously posturing for a run. he was smart to distance himself from Trump, but he is not moderate enough to overcome the Blue Wave.
edit: yeah, Huntsman and Sasse are voices of reason. I have some respect for Haley, but yeah, she smells
Trump will run, maybe even as an Independent, and screw the Republicans, he has no loyalty
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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by early 2019 the polls will be so negative that Trump will have no chance of reelection
he will declare victory and return to his opulent private life
Joe Biden will easily defeat any Republican and become President
the wave of anger and emotion against all things Republican will sweep the Dems into majority control of the House and Senate
open an account on betfair and put some money on it
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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I find Kaisch extremely annoying
And any Republican will just be more of the same Republican policies that ruined this country in the first place
The only moderates are the Democrats,
what was f-ing Hillary?? a moderate
What single policy do the Democrats want that the majority of the population are not for?
Everyone wants :
SS, medicare, social services, common sense gun laws
affordable or single payer health care
affordable college, vocational programs
taxes paying for education, science, infrastructure
preserving wild lands and having strong environmental regulations and species protections
to stop discrimination
The Republicans work against these same issues
They take away protections, services and tax payer paid entitlements from the people
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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The world as we know it will be gone soon.
We have a regular at the naked section at Split Rock, who is into ashrams and that kind of thing. Which, I can do my best to hide my eye-rolling when listening to her, but.....
In the summer of 2016, she said her guru(or someone associated) had predicted that Obama would be the last president of the US, that the US as a country would fail, and that the world would be thrown into chaos.
Yes, I eye-rolled. Until the day after 2016 elections. Then I kind of went "ha, wouldn't it be weird....." And every day since, it has been more like "Well, everything considered, it's not implausible."
Not to rush things along, but I'm getting ready to push harder to get back to NY, and if it's just going to be one of those things where you look back and say "Well, that wasn't necessary......"
I hope you are wrong Moose. But if it happens, I hope I am swept away fairly quickly and painlessly. Besides, I want to see what the world is like in 2050, and look back and be amazed, and tell any youngster who will listen "Oh, yes, we had to actually steer and stop the physical vehicles. There was none of this virtual travel back then...."
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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had predicted that Obama would be the last president of the US
true so far..
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Neebraun......lmao
Fukn classic.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 11:47am PT
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Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?
All the Democrats, and probably some Republicans, running in 2018 will be against Trump. Voters in Trump Land are going to be against him, too. The Chinese tariffs on US agricultural goods are going to hit his billy-bob fan base pretty hard.
By 2020, the only running Trump will be doing is from the law.
Mueller is working very methodically from the bottom up. He has not yet publicly mentioned the most important co-defendants. Mueller's interest in Roger Stone indicates that he is almost ready to start naming those who directly connected Putin to Trump. Trump thinks the collusion investigation is over, but it is just starting to get interesting. Trump thinks he is in the clear, because he is only a subject (not target) of the investigation. But, Mueller is prepared to upgrade his status at any time.
Trump filed his paperwork to compel Stormy Daniels to submit to arbitration. This puts him and his attorney Cohen in an untenable situation. They can no longer pretend that Cohen set up the LLC and paid the $130,000 out of his own pocket, without Trump's knowledge. The payment is now officially an illegal campaign contribution, and a felony under Federal law. Mueller will come poking around, to see if the money came from Russia.
The Stormy Daniels case is very likely to wind up in public court, with Trump being called as a witness, and having to testify under oath. That will be in addition to any questioning that Mueller subjects him to.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
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This is the list of products that China is targeting with retaliatory tariffs to call Trump's bluff, and raise him his voter base.
Yellow soybean
Black soybean
Corn
Cornflour
Uncombed cotton
Cotton linters
Sorghum
Brewing or distilling dregs and waste
Other durum wheat
Other wheat and mixed wheat
Whole and half head fresh and cold beef
Fresh and cold beef with bones
Fresh and cold boneless beef
Frozen beef with bones
Frozen boneless beef
Frozen boneless meat
Other frozen beef chops
Dried cranberries
Frozen orange juice
Non-frozen orange juice
Whiskies
Unstemmed flue-cured tobacco
Other unstemmed tobacco
Flue-cured tobacco partially or totally removed
Partially or totally deterred tobacco stems
Tobacco waste
Tobacco cigars
Tobacco cigarettes
Cigars and cigarettes, tobacco substitutes
Hookah tobacco
Other tobacco for smoking
Reconstituted tobacco
Other tobacco and tobacco substitute products
SUVs with discharge capacity of 2.5L to 3L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2500ml, but not exceeding 3000ml for SUVs (4 wheel drive)
Vehicles with discharge capacity of 1.5L to 2L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 1000ml, but not exceeding 1500ml for SUVs (4 wheel drive)
Passenger cars with discharge capacity 1.5L to 2L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 1000ml, but not exceeding 1500ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Passenger cars with discharge capacity of 3L to 4L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 3000ml, but not exceeding 4000ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of 2L to 2.5L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2000ml, but not exceeding 2500ml for off-road vehicles
Passenger cars with discharge capacity of 2L to 2.5L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2000ml, but not exceeding 2500ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of 3L to 4L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 3000ml, but not exceeding 4000ml for off-road vehicles
Diesel-powered off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of 2.5L to 3L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2500ml, but not exceeding 3000ml for diesel-powered off-road vehicles
Passenger cars with discharge capacity of 2.5L to 3L, 9 seats or less
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement exceeding 2500ml, but not exceeding 3000ml for 9 passenger cars and below
Off-road vehicles with discharge capacity of less than 4L
Other vehicles equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source. Cylinder capacity displacement not exceeding 4000ml for off-road vehicles
Other vehicles which are equipped with an ignited reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor and can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles that are equipped with a compression ignition type internal combustion engine (diesel or semi-diesel) and a drive motor, other than vehicles that can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles which are equipped with an ignition reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor and can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles that are equipped with a compression-ignition reciprocating piston internal combustion engine and a drive motor that can be charged by plugging in an external power source
Other vehicles that only drive the motor
Other vehicles
Other gasoline trucks of less than 5 tons
Transmissions and parts for motor vehicles not classified
Liquefied Propane
Primary Shaped Polycarbonate
Supported catalysts with noble metals and their compounds as actives
Diagnostic or experimental reagents attached to backings, except for goods of tariff lines 32.02, 32.06
Chemical products and preparations for the chemical industry and related industries, not elsewhere specified
Products containing PFOS and its salts, perfluorooctanyl sulfonamide or perfluorooctane sulfonyl chloride in note 3 of this chapter
Items listed in note 3 of this chapter containing four, five, six, seven or octabromodiphenyl ethers
Contains 1,2,3,4,5,6-HCH (6,6,6) (ISO), including lindane (ISO, INN)
Primarily made of dimethyl (5-ethyl-2-methyl-2oxo-1,3,2-dioxaphosphorin-5-yl)methylphosphonate and double [(5-b Mixtures and products of 2-methyl-2-oxo-1,3,2-dioxaphosphorin-5-yl)methyl] methylphosphonate (FRC-1)
38248600a articles listed in note 3 to this chapter containing PeCB (ISO) or Hexachlorobenzene (ISO)
Containing aldrin (ISO), toxaphene (ISO), chlordane (ISO), chlordecone (ISO), DDT (ISO) [Diptrix (INN), 1,1,1-trichloro-2 ,2-Bis(4-chlorophenyl)ethane], Dieldrin (ISO, INN), Endosulfan (ISO), Endrin (ISO), Heptachlor (ISO) or Mirex (ISO). The goods listed in note 3 of this chapter
Other carrier catalysts
Other polyesters
Reaction initiators, accelerators not elsewhere specified
Polyethylene with a primary shape specific gravity of less than 0.94
Acrylonitrile
Lubricants (without petroleum or oil extracted from bituminous minerals)
Diagnostic or experimental formulation reagents, whether or not attached to backings, other than those of heading 32.02, 32.06
Lubricant additives for oils not containing petroleum or extracted from bituminous minerals
Primary Shaped Epoxy Resin
Polyethylene Terephthalate Plate Film Foil Strips
Other self-adhesive plastic plates, sheets, films and other materials
Other plastic non-foam plastic sheets
Other plastic products
Other primary vinyl polymers
Other ethylene-α-olefin copolymers, specific gravity less than 0.94
Other primary shapes of acrylic polymers
Other primary shapes of pure polyvinyl chloride
Polysiloxane in primary shape
Other primary polysulphides, polysulfones and other tariff numbers as set forth in note 3 to chapter 39 are not listed.
Plastic plates, sheets, films, foils and strips, not elsewhere specified
1,2-Dichloroethane (ISO)
Halogenated butyl rubber sheets, strips
Other heterocyclic compounds
Adhesives based on other rubber or plastics
Polyamide-6,6 slices
Other primary-shaped polyethers
Primary Shaped, Unplasticized Cellulose Acetate
Aromatic polyamides and their copolymers
Semi-aromatic polyamides and their copolymers
Other polyamides of primary shape
Other vinyl polymer plates, sheets, strips
Non-ionic organic surfactants
Lubricants (containing oil or oil extracted from bituminous minerals and less than 70% by weight)
Aircraft and other aircraft with an empty weight of more than 15,000kg but not exceeding 45,000kg
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Getting a little tried of the whole Trump thing but I'd really like to see Warren take a DNA test. Hopefully someone will get a sample from her by hook or by crook if she won't do it willingly.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
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Trump says he is going to call up the National Guard and send them to the Mexican border. The reserve troops will be pulled away from their families, homes and jobs, and deployed in the desert. Most of them will come from Texas and Arizona, both of which voted for Trump in 2016.
Voter remorse will be running at an all-time high by November.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/article/The-Latest-Trump-promises-strong-action-on-12804396.php
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Trump would be better to ask "Who funded this supposed caravan of 1000's of people through Mexico". Such movement requires large amounts of $$$, coordination, planning, food,water etc. Displaced homeless people cannot 'walk' across Mexico.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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^^^^I dunno, this is an annual event. Who funded it last year and the year before that?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Brewing or distilling dregs and waste
I was not aware that the Chinese drank Budweiser
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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blah blah said:
Getting a little tried of the whole Trump thing
not surprised you are getting tired, you voted for him and the daily almost hourly flat out lying must be tiring
but I'd really like to see Warren take a DNA test. Hopefully someone will get a sample from her by hook or by crook if she won't do it willingly.
that all you got? you would "really" like Elizabeth Warren to be proven wrong that she was told growing up that she had some native american ancestry? really?
why is that such a really big deal to you?
just a good guess, One - so it deflects, about an hour in the media a little attention away from you being "tired" of Trump's lying
Two - because it proves that a Democrat may "lie" about her ancestry, therefore you can claim the US President's constant relentless lying is ok because "both parties do it"
every heard of the phrase "False Equivalence"? google it
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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that all you got? you would "really" like Elizabeth Warren to be proven wrong that she was told growing up that she had some native american ancestry? really?
why is that such a really big deal to you?
just a good guess, One - so it deflects, about an hour in the media a little attention away from you being "tired" of Trump's lying
Two - because it proves that a Democrat may "lie" about her ancestry, therefore you can claim the US President's constant relentless lying is ok because "both parties do it"
every heard of the phrase "False Equivalence"? google it
As I understand it, there are many millions of white Americans who have a "family lore" that they are part Indian. Of course some of them are. Many if not most of them are not.
As far as can be discerned, Warren is in the "are not" camp.
It's disrespectful to real Indians to claim to be one, even in part, when that's simply not true.
And the old "that's what my parents told me" is a load of crap. In general, most of us believe our parents, most of the time. But here, anyone who does 10 seconds of research can learn that false claims of family lore of Indian ancestry are rampant. Does Warren somehow think that this can't apply to her?
And what about her plagiarized recipe in Pow Wow Chow cookbook? First, she shouldn't have even been featured in the book because she's not Indian. Second, why did she shamelessly plagiarize?
Admit it: Warren is a big a liar as Trump. If you want to call out Trump for lying, great, but remember your hero Warren is just as bad!
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Warren is a big a liar as Trump. If you want to call out Trump for lying, great, but remember your hero Warren is just as bad!
Warren = 1 possible lie.
Trump = Thousands of lies.
Yup same thing.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Yep ,we could get a ton more for our tax money with Bernie,but we would not have all this great drama. Just think ,we could be near as in debt as we are now and we could redistribute some effen wealth.
Tulsi Gabbard.
Edit, We..............
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Warren is a big a liar as Trump
What a delicious irony, lying about the lies
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WBraun
climber
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Mueller is working very methodically from the bottom up
LOL, and you people believe all this horsesh!t they feed you daily.
Mueller don't know sh!t, and you people have been own and will continue to be own by these clowns running this horsesh!t .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Duck dynasty be own...quack , quack , quack...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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"That's some fu_cked_up_shit"
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zBrown
Ice climber
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A federal judge in New York has denied Bill O'Reilly's motion to seal settlement agreements he struck with multiple women who accused him of harassment, dealing a huge blow to the former Fox News host in a defamation suit brought last year
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Maybe Trump will grab OReilly's pussy and make it all better....?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Meanwhile
Zombie Raccoons are terrorizing an Ohio town
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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So the dems had another YUUUUUGE victory, this time for the Supreme Court in Wis.
I think a lot of Americans are tired of being embarrassed by the President.
They are tired of amateur hour. They are tired of people placed in gov't, who are hell-bent on destroying the gov't.
So I'm thinking along the lines of a professional, with many years of experience, who is thought well of by people on both sides, and who is thought to be honorable, and a gentleman.
It's hard to think of someone who has those qualities more than Biden.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
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I would vote for Biden. Great man.
No brainer. One of us.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Lol..... omg...
Werner is right.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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And now, the Federal gov't has taken another step to "making America great again", by bringing back slavery:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/opinion/migrants-detention-forced-labor.html
Remember the old saying: don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
No one made these guys break the immigration laws by sneaking into the US.
If they do that and get caught, it's basically on them. Not saying they should be mistreated, but making them do a little work to pay for the their upkeep seems pretty fair, unless you think they would be good with getting a bill after they're released?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Moose, maybe you should move to Mexico.
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dirtbag
climber
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"And yes, it came out where this journey coming up - women are raped at levels that nobody's ever seen before. They don't want to mention that. So we have to change our laws. And the Democrats, what they're doing is just - it's insanity. Nobody understands what's going on
-
That is what the man who bragged about grabbing women’s pussies said today about Mexicans.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Rapist sure, but at least he knows how to deal
The first is that Trump has always been a bad negotiator. The consensus among observers in the early 1990s—when Trump’s business was insolvent and he was at risk of losing everything—was that Trump had overpaid for countless acquisitions. The Plaza Hotel, and many other buildings and businesses, had failed to generate anything close to the revenues required to cover their costs. If he was making negotiating mistakes like that in a field he knew something about, why wouldn’t he make even bigger negotiating mistakes in a field he knows nothing about?
The second—again, not exclusive—theory is that moving any sort of policy requires some firsthand mastery of details. Trump, as we know, lacks this. So when he goes into meetings with Democrats and gives away the store, only to backpedal hours later and pretend he didn’t, his weakness as a negotiator is only one part of his vulnerability. The other is that he doesn’t know what’s being discussed. When the details are all mysterious, then you really can’t press for what matters or protect what’s essential. You just have to rely on the people around you to guide you through it, and the result is never going to be as good.
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john hansen
climber
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It would be pretty easy to make a bunch of money if you could move the markets with a tweet.. I wonder who was shorting Amazon before Trump attacked them?
Hopefully he does not figure this out. Talk about insider trading.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Remember the old saying: don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
No one made these guys break the immigration laws by sneaking into the US.
If they do that and get caught, it's basically on them. Not saying they should be mistreated, but making them do a little work to pay for the their upkeep seems pretty fair, unless you think they would be good with getting a bill after they're released?
So you advocate slavery as a punishment, even though several courts have ruled it illegal? Should the officials who advocate as you do, breaking the law, be sentenced to how many years of slavery?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Carl Icahn made millions off insider trading, that is why he quietly left the administration and they tried to deny he was even there. Pruitt was involved in it too.
How is that swamp draining going?
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Borrowing on Footfalls/Profound Deceptions
In only fooling the innocents
while being sustained by them
the real estate moguls maintain that
they’ve earned these rights
through crafty shell game leverage
Many original North Americans
never believed that land should be owned
Their stewardship of the earth
was about about moving through it
not overseeing the world
Sometimes I see that
the laws we adhere to
aren’t worth the paper their written on
Thank the founding fathers
those slave owners and slave traders
Enslaved by such dependence
at the very least regarding all this
in that arrogant manner
so many of us are ignorant of the fact
these are concepts of manifest destiny
Nobody owns anything
We don’t even own our physical selves
not land or personal property
Good luck holding onto all that
after we’re deceased
-bushman
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Well. it turns out that Trump is really a bloody genius and is playing a really long game. From an editorial by Michelle Goldberg in the (fake) NY Times...........
Barr’s tweet, puzzling to the casual observer, was a reference to QAnon, an expansive, complicated pro-Trump conspiracy theory. The theory is fascinating as an artifact of our current political derangement, but more than that, it’s profoundly revealing about the lengths to which some Trump supporters will go to convince themselves that his presidency is going well.
As Paris Martineau explained in New York Magazine, QAnon was born last October, when someone claiming to have “Q” level security clearance started a cryptic thread on 4chan, the online message board and troll playground. It was titled, “The Calm Before the Storm,” a phrase Trump had recently used. Q posted hints, some in the form of questions, ostensibly meant to help clued-in Trump supporters understand what was really going on in Washington beneath the facade of chaos and incompetence. (“What is military intelligence? Why go around the 3 letter agencies?”)
From these clues, a sprawling community on message boards, YouTube videos and Twitter accounts has elaborated an enormous, ever-mutating fantasy narrative about the Trump presidency. In the QAnon reality, Trump only pretended to collude with Russia in order to create a pretext for the hiring of Robert Mueller, the special counsel, who is actually working with Trump to take down an inconceivably evil and powerful network of coup-plotters and child sex traffickers that includes Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and George Soros.
I'm not sure what the repeated child sex trafficking meme from 'conservatives' is about, but it certainly reveals some twisted, defective, perverted inner selves. Weird.
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dirtbag
climber
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Wow, that is quite a tale the q people are spinning.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://theins.ru/korrupciya/97595&xid=17259,15700021,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700191,15700201
This is the news story going round now. Sure, t's easy to call it an unreliable source, fake news, speculation..... that is, if you lean more toward the Qanon side of things.
Most of this stuff has been discussed months ago, in the profiles of the people I have been following, but it's becoming a mainstream news story, finally.
Just a "coincidence" that Trump Tower had major Russian mafia people in residence?
How would YOU feel, if your landlord rents the apartment above you to criminals? Or when the neighbor down the street truns out to be a mob family?
How do evangelicals, able to forgive "sins of the flesh," justify cohorting with the mob. And not the US faction, where the FBI has some ability to staunch the flow, when it gets really insideous. But the Russian mob, who will kill anyone who gets in the way. Who regularly coerces pretty women to sign up for jobs as entertainers/dancers they put out as legitimate, but are actually just the pathway into sexual slavery. Who use some of these women for characters in sadistic and even SNUFF FILMS?
Still denying your man is about as close to scum of the earth as there is, Trumple Dumpling Gang?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Investigators are believed to be looking into whether foreign cash got into the coffers of American political organizations and if this is how, the implications are huge.
Foreign contributions to U.S. elections are illegal. And people entering the United States must notify Customs and Border Protection if they're bringing in currency or "monetary instruments" worth more than $10,000 — or it can be seized and those carrying it potentially could face civil or criminal penalties.
So much for all the "Miami Vice" drama — who are these latest Russians? What put the feds onto them? Where did the money they might have transported into the United States wind up? As usual, the news accounts fall short of the complete story and only Mueller and his team know for sure.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 10:36am PT
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Expensive real estate in NYC, as well as in SF, LA, Miami, Vancouver and other places, has been used to launder dirty money for years. The idea is to buy in with dirty cash, using an anonymous LLC to hide the buyer. A mortgage can then be taken out against the real estate to generate clean cash, or the real estate can be sold legitimately a few years later. All it takes is a seller who will accept a steamer trunk full of cash, and jet off to deposit it in an offshore LLC account of their own.
Russian gangsters are not the only ones laundering money this way. Drug dealers and corrupt Chinese officials are also sources of dirty money. Trump is just one NYC real estate mogul who has sold expensive apartments for cash to LLCs. About half of Trump's NYC apartments are owned by anonymous LLCs. NYC is now requiring that LLCs purchasing real estate disclose who the real buyers are.
Trump's connections to Russian money are quite deep. Trump SOHO Tower was financed with Russian money, via Felix Sater, who was also trying to get a Trump Moscow Tower built as late as mid-2016. The Moscow deal was abandoned about the same time Trump became the leading GOP candidate, and they started scrambling to hide his connections to Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/17/nyregion/17trump.html
Here is the NY Times story about Felix Sater putting together Trump and Putin. The goal was specifically to get Trump elected president.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/politics/trump-tower-putin-felix-sater.html
This story is only a few days old. Mueller has expanded his investigation to include Felix Sater and his connections to Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney. Felix Sater's name first appears quite far down in the article, but he is referenced in the first sentence as an "associate of the Trump Organization". Sater had an office in Trump Tower, one floor below Trump's office, and had business cards that identified him as a "Senior Advisor to Donald Trump" doing business at Trump Tower.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/politics-government/article208091014.html#storylink=latest_side
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WBraun
climber
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From the NYT “I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected,” Mr. Sater wrote.
LOL, .... you brainwashed nutcases fall for anything these st00pid morons claim
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 10:46am PT
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Werner, I beg to differ with you. I've been following this thing since about January 2017, and there has been been extensive cross-referencing on many of the points I have brought up over the time.
Worse - it just makes sense. The dots connect.
EVERYONE in NYC knew Trump was a thieving grifter. He just, simply, was.
It's not like he woke up one day and hatched this plan, and asked Jared to contact Putin and see what he thinks. He may well honestly believe there was no collusion, because he wasn't in on much more than someone slapping him on the back and saying "You will be fine president, my friend." I mean - can you IMAGINE having to explain things to that guy? He can't focus on much more than a pair of bobbling boobies in a low cut dress, and even that I doubt he can keep mindful of much longer than it takes to unzip and get his rocks off.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
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Here's my Batshit Hannity stand-up routine:
Pay NO attention to those indictment documents. They're FAKE! They're FAKE PAPERS, printed with FAKE INK, filed in a FAKE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE, by a FAKE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, who has obtained a half-dozen FAKE CONFESSIONS from FAKE FELONS who worked on Trump's FAKE ELECTION CAMPAIGN with a motley crew of FAKE RUSSIANS to make sure that FAKE MIDWESTERN VOTERS were duped and deceived with the Russian's FAKE NEWS. And, just to be clear, there is no such thing as a FAKE DUTCH LAWYER who pleaded FAKE GUILTY to FAKE LYING to FAKE INVESTIGATORS about FAKE CONTACT with FAKE RUSSIANS, and he was never sentenced by a FAKE JUDGE to serve 30 FAKE DAYS in a FAKE FEDERAL PENILE FACILITY.
Robert Mueller's FAKE investigation must be stopped RIGHT NOW, or else the entire Fox News team is going to look like EVEN MORE like complete idiots in about three months.
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WBraun
climber
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Happiegrrrl2
Putin had nothing to do with this.
That is the fact.
The Putin hates the Russian mob and has been throwing them out of Russia for years.
The Russian mob vehemently hates Putin and will do anything to make Putin look bad .....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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XCon, those are good points.
Last week, I found out that someone I went to high school with had to have a lung transplant. He never smoked, was athletic, and otherwise healthy. But, he caught some kind of super-bug that was like a flesh-eating bacteria that destroyed his lung.
That type of health hazard is becoming more common with tourism, migration, etc. The incurable ebola virus from Africa was in the news a few years ago. Before that was Bird Flu from Asia. More recently, there was the baby-deforming Zika virus. The small town where Rocky lives is a magnet for tourists from all over the world, and he may have caught something that came into SFO or LAX on a Cathay airliner. Like foreigners who can drink their own tap water, but we can't, some foreigners may have evolved an immune response to a lung-destroying bacteria. They harmlessly carry it into the U.S. when they come to gawk at Hearst Castle, and then they transmit it to us at a restaurant.
People are probably instinctively xenophobic because experience has shown that outsiders can bring disease.
Acceptance of others is probably a learned skill that does not come naturally.
And, that would explain why uneducated people in West Virgina (a state with the lowest number of immigrants) are so anxious to keep foreigners out of the country.
Mama always said, "Billy-Bob is as Billy-Bob does".
Forrest Trump
"Russian Mob" is too general a term to have any meaning with respect to Putin.
Putin likes the Mob he can control, and he allows them to exist in Russia. Basically, Putin allows theft of public resources, as long as the thieves do his bidding and support him.
Putin hates the Mob he can't control, and he gets rid of them. He also tries to get rid of anybody else who opposes him (c.f. the Pussy Riot band).
The Russian mobster oligarchs that assisted Trump are in Putin's inner circle.
They're not the ones in exile in London, in a frozen Siberian gulag, or dead from Polonium poisoning.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Putin IS the Russian mob.
The duck is a quack.
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WBraun
climber
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You people are st00pid and brainwashed to the max .......
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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You people are stOOpid and brainwashed to the max.......
And yet we persist, to drive the duck daffy..
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
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You people are st00pid and brainwashed to the max .......
I know you are, but what am I?
A rising river lifts all ducks . . . . . . . . . . . . and sweeps them away to Merced and beyond.
WVB, I hope the typhoon is treating you well. Some day (today?) a real rain is going to come, and scare all the tourists away.
A fire destroyed an apartment at Trump Tower today, and a tenant there has died.
It's only funny until somebody gets hurt. I deleted my earlier comments about the fire.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Fire-breaks-out-at-Trump-Tower-in-NYC-12815107.php
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community
"The Washington Post reported in 2010 that there were 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies in 10,000 locations in the United States that were working on counterterrorism, homeland security, and intelligence, and that the intelligence community as a whole includes 854,000 people holding top-secret clearances.[3] According to a 2008 study by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, private contractors make up 29% of the workforce in the U.S. intelligence community and account for 49% of their personnel budgets.[4]"
Yet, we don't know what's going on. LOL
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Werner, I don't know. The people I have been following have detailed connections between mobsters and Putin. Say that the Russian mob is pretty much headed by old KGB guys. Of which, Putin is also.
It may be that the information I am seeing is false. But so far, these folks are the only ones to have provided what seem to be plausible connections, accompanied by documented historical data.
What purpose would it serve, in your opinion, to have people believing that Putin has been commandeering elections within not only the US, but also Europe. What purpose, to have (some) of us believe he is attempting to undermine, and even destroy, NATO?
What purpose would it serve - really - to have out country freaking the F out over all this? And having Trump supporters humiliated by these daily stories(if he is honestly doing the best he can, which I would think would have to be the case, if the whole mobster connection is fake)?
Also, do you think that the connections (verified and documented) of just soooooo many Russians of ill repute have connections, businesswise and socially, to Donald Trump, and to people Donald Trump heavily relied on within his election campaign are really just coincidental?
edit: Did you read the newspaper article I linked upthread? What is your opinion?(besides just sayng we're brainwashed. Seriously - that story is chock full of connections which have been and can be documented. To create that complex a cover story for...for what? ....would be extraordinarily difficult and have had to have been years in development.
And, if it WERE a story created by...I guess "the deep state," that would STILL have Trump being complicit in the whole thing. Sorry, but there is no.way.in.hell. that I am buying so much as an angry inch of Donald Trump being used for some world dominion effort by the US intelligence community.
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WBraun
climber
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Happiegrrrl2
As I keep saying Putin has nothing to do with this.
But you're gonna believe all that horsesh!t the media is trying frame on Putin.
What can I do, ... you believe all that crap.
Do some serious research and you'll see very quickly how you've been owned by your own corrupt system .....
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WBraun
climber
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No, .... he's not.
Xcon has got it right .......
(Brennan just deleted his post.)
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Too little too late...... but want a conspiracy theory?
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Liberal..........Ted Spugent just a had de facto call to arms to kill them.
fuking liberals
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 10:40pm PT
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Happiegrrrl2,
When you assume, for the moment, the opposite is correct (i.e., everything in the news about Trump and Russians is fake) and you get only contradictions and absurd conclusions, then you know that the opposite is NOT correct(i.e. the Trump and Russian news stories are true). This is known as reductio ad absurdum, and was known to the ancient Greeks as a valid way to determine the truth (they used the technique in about 400 B.C. to prove that the square-root of 2 is an irrational number).
Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Fox News, InfoWars, the White House Press Office, and an ever-shrinking handful of Republicans in Congress, are acting like a housewife who knowingly denies that her husband is raping their young daughter.
It is truly disgusting to see that sort of dysfunctional, co-dependent denial of reality being normalized in the news cycle, and on Capitol Hill. Trump is an abusive POSPOTUS, and his co-dependent apologists enable him.
Luckily, laws exist that transcend the co-dependent denials, and allow prosecution of criminals to take place, based on facts. America is a nation of laws and facts, and the facts will show what the truth is, and the laws will be applied to those who have broken them. The housewife can deny the existence of forensic evidence, but at the end of the day, justice will prevail.
And, the same is true of a B.S.C. moron like Sean Hannity. He can blather as much denial nonsense as he wants, and call the moon green cheese, but at the end of the day, people have, as a FACT, been indicted and convicted and sentenced and jailed as part of the Russia investigation. The investigation, as a FACT, is expanding in scope, not contracting, winding down, or coming to an end. It is a FACT that Trump's campaign manager has been indicted in two different courts (Virginia and Federal) and is now the focus of investigations about Russians illegally financing the campaign.
Jared Kushner would not have hired the most expensive Washington D.C. attorney if he was innocent. Trump would not be tweeting NO COLLUSION every few days if he was innocent.
This isn't rocket science. Reality is a democratic process. Trump's voter base is eroding, and even without that happening, Trump is going to lose his battle with reality. And, it will probably be ugly and tragic.
My intuition tells me that Mueller will be gunning for the big game very soon.
Hannity's allegation that the investigation should be stopped now, because he hasn't seen sufficient evidence of collusion, is absurd. Only a stupid prosecutor would reveal his case and his evidence to the press before he is able to properly use it to convict a criminal.
What I am expecting is that Trump's loyal apologists will be sued, personally and professionally, for their roles in the cover-up. It may be difficult to prove that Hannity, et al, knowingly deceived the public to inflict harm, but I can imagine a gigantic class-action lawsuit that would give them a taste of what they really deserve. Free speech that intentionally and directly leads to the injury of others, like causing a bone-crushing stampede in a stadium, is an actionable tort.
Grasshoppa, do you not see the butterfly?
No, master. All I see a blob of dried gook hanging from a branch.
But, Grasshoppa, do you not see, in your mind, the butterfly that will soon come out of the cocoon?
No, master. There is no butterfly. There will never be a butterfly. That is fake news. I must stomp on the blob right now.
Time for you to leave.
Here is some Fake News that is satire:
TRUMP TOWER CATCHES FIRE APRIL 7, 2018
Trump sent some goons to start a fire at his Trump Tower office, and burn up all the evidence of Russian collusion.
Instead, the goons accidentally set fire to a secret apartment that Trump kept on the 50th floor of the building. The goons got the wrong key, from the wrong attorney, went into the wrong room, and didn't notice that the movie cameras, round bed, mirrored ceilings, dungeon chains, hot tub, and intravenous erectile-dysfunction medicine machine were not standard office decor. The goons tossed their Molotov cocktails, and fled the building before the alarm sounded.
The Russian collusion evidence the goons were attempting to destroy was in Trump's 26th floor office, and was not affected by the fire.
However, Trump's private Sala Dorata di Amore - his golden pleasure palace - was a total loss with damage estimated to be well in excess of $10 million.
Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller will be assembling a task force to investigate the suspicious incident.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2018 - 12:14am PT
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This: "Keep your gun handy, and every time you see one, you shoot one."
Did Ted Nugent really say that?
I don't think that statement is specific enough to warrant domestic terrorism charges, but a Texas Ranger should have a talk with him. Even better, a psychiatric evaluation might lead to his being stripped of his guns. Second Amendment rights don't exist for mentally ill people, especially if they threaten other people with their guns.
Nugent doesn't do drugs or alcohol, so it must the syphilis from his self-celebrated sex addiction that has gone to his head.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Ted's always talked like that.
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dirtbag
climber
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He did say it.
You might remember that he was trump’s guest at the White House about a year ago.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Is Ted part of a "well regulated militia" ?
Moron
I just can't comprehend how someone can be so completely guilty, but they try and pretend that they are innocent all the while trying to be the President...
Can't just give in and say I did it.....
The psychological somersaults that must be going on in his brain
Any normal person would know that sooner or later their wall of lies will come falling down
My opinion of Trump.
He is one of the most despicable humans on earth that just bullied and lied his way to the top of the NY mobsters, and then deluded himself enough that he could lie his way to become the President, and the idiot Republicans lapped up the con like it was milk and honey
The Republican voters are once again the true cause of our situation, they would vote in Satan if they could. They are all Authoritarian followers that will do what ever their over lords dupe them into believing.
vvvv
Hey bro, I love the alternet too
and going to link the more of Republican brain article
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Alternet... infowars..
You go to all the best places.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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A Neuroscientist Explains What Could Be Wrong with Trump Supporters’ Brains
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/neuroscientist-explains-what-could-be-wrong-trump-supporters-brains
The Dunning-Kruger Effect:
Some believe that many of those who support Donald Trump do so because of ignorance — basically they are under-informed or misinformed about the issues at hand. When Trump tells them that crime is skyrocketing in the United States, or that the economy is the worst it’s ever been, they simply take his word for it.
The seemingly obvious solution would be to try to reach those people through political ads, expert opinions, and logical arguments that educate with facts. Except none of those things seem to be swaying any Trump supporters from his side, despite great efforts to deliver this information to them directly.
The Dunning-Kruger effect explains that the problem isn’t just that they are misinformed; it’s that they are completely unaware that they are misinformed. This creates a double burden.
Studies have shown that people who lack expertise in some area of knowledge often have a cognitive bias that prevents them from realizing that they lack expertise. As psychologist David Dunning puts it in an op-ed for Politico, “The knowledge and intelligence that are required to be good at a task are often the same qualities needed to recognize that one is not good at that task — and if one lacks such knowledge and intelligence, one remains ignorant that one is not good at the task. This includes political judgment.” Essentially, they’re not smart enough to realize they’re dumb.
And if one is under the illusion that they have sufficient or even superior knowledge, then they have no reason to defer to anyone else’s judgment. This helps explain why even nonpartisan experts — like military generals and Independent former Mayor of New York/billionaire CEO Mayor of New York/billionaire CEO Michael Bloomberg — as well as some respected Republican politicians, don’t seem to be able to say anything that can change the minds of loyal Trump followers.
Out of immense frustration, some of us may feel the urge to shake a Trump supporter and say, “Hey! Don’t you realize that he’s an idiot?!” No. They don’t. That may be hard to fathom, but that’s the nature of the Dunning-Kruger effect — one’s ignorance is completely invisible to them.
apparently Trump suffers Dunning-Kruger Effect, how can anyone so uniformed think he is the best person to make decisions??
He makes the worst decisions ever IMO
Info Wars is a far right wing propaganda and conspiracy loon site that wacko cultists love
Alex Jones makes up lies as a job and doesn't know the difference between fact and fiction
the AlterNet is a left leaning news site that post facts,
you may enjoy facts for a change, check it out
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Same ol' Derf... serving up the irony.
I don't like Trump. Hope he's a one term pres.
OK, Trump's a pig.
Who are you thinking should run against President Trump in the next election?
From the GOP, I'd like to see Kasich, Huntsman or Sasse step up. If Nikki Haley ran, I'd campaign for her, even though she's got a nasty Trump taint to overcome.
About McCabe's firing
Total d@&che bag move.
Dunning-Kruger?
Let me get you a mirror.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Same old sketch, always insulting, always lying
Please look in the mirror you project
wow, Not one of those quotes were mine, who are you hating on this time
Try again
Boy you sure hate having anyone rebut your nasty comments
Maybe the nasty comments are the source of your nasty reputation here
ever thought of just saying nothing?
nothing is gained by an insult contest
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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More from the Alternet
Terror Management Theory
A well-supported theory from social psychology, called Terror Management Theory, explains why Trump’s fear mongering is doubly effective.
The theory is based on the fact that humans have a unique awareness of their own mortality. The inevitably of one’s death creates existential terror and anxiety that is always residing below the surface. In order to manage this terror, humans adopt cultural worldviews — like religions, political ideologies, and national identities — that act as a buffer by instilling life with meaning and value.
Terror Management Theory predicts that when people are reminded of their own mortality, which happens with fear mongering, they will more strongly defend those who share their worldviews and national or ethnic identity, and act out more aggressively towards those who do not. Hundreds of studies have confirmed this hypothesis, and some have specifically shown that triggering thoughts of death tends to shift people towards the right.
Not only do death reminders increase nationalism, they influence actual voting habitsin favor of more conservative presidential candidates. And more disturbingly, in a study with American students, scientists found that making mortality salient increased support for extreme military interventions by American forces that could kill thousands of civilians overseas. Interestingly, the effect was present only in conservatives, which can likely be attributed to their heightened fear response.
By constantly emphasizing existential threat, Trump creates a psychological condition that makes the brain respond positively rather than negatively to bigoted statements and divisive rhetoric. Liberals and Independents who have been puzzled over why Trump hasn’t lost supporters after such highly offensive comments need look no further than Terror Management Theory.
4.High Attentional Engagement
According to a recent study that monitored brain activity while participants watched 40 minutes of political ads and debate clips from the presidential candidates, Donald Trump is unique in his ability to keep the brain engaged. While Hillary Clinton could only hold attention for so long, Trump kept both attention and emotional arousal high throughout the viewing session. This pattern of activity was seen even when Trump made remarks that individuals didn’t necessarily agree with. His showmanship and simple messages clearly resonate at a visceral level.
Essentially, the loyalty of Trump supporters may in part be explained by America’s addiction with entertainment and reality TV. To some, it doesn’t matter what Trump actually says because he’s so amusing to watch. With Donald, you are always left wondering what outrageous thing he is going to say or do next. He keeps us on the edge of our seat, and for that reason, some Trump supporters will forgive anything he says. They are happy as long as they are kept entertained.
Of course these explanations do not apply to all Trump supporters. In fact, some are likely intelligent people who know better, but are supporting Trump to be rebellious or to introduce chaos into the system. They may have such distaste for the establishment and Hillary Clinton that their vote for Trump was a symbolic middle finger directed at Washington.
So what can we do to potentially change the minds of Trump loyalists before voting in 2020? As a cognitive neuroscientist, it grieves me to say that there may be nothing we can do. The overwhelming majority of these people may be beyond reach, at least in the short term. The best we can do is to motivate everyone else to get out to the booths and check the box that doesn’t belong to a narcissistic nationalist who has the potential to damage the nation beyond repair.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 8, 2018 - 08:45am PT
Same old sketch, always insulting, always lying
Please look in the mirror you project
wow, Not one of those quotes were mine, who are you hating on this time
Try again
Boy you sure hate having anyone rebut your nasty comments
Maybe the nasty comments are the source of your nasty reputation here
ever thought of just saying nothing?
LOL
It's okay when you do it, but return volleys are unacceptable.
Love the hypocrisy.
Edit: I see where you deleting the part where you started this ad hom back and forth. How convenient.
I posted some of my quotes, proving you wrong... and you comeback with more ad homs and lies.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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How appropriate that EdwardT gets to make post #666 on this thread.
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Trump
climber
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“The seemingly obvious solution ..”
Didn’t work. Maybe the problem is more in its seemingly obviousness than in its not working.
“it’s that they’re completely unaware that they are misinformed.”
“And even if one is under the illusion that they have sufficient or even superior knowledge, then they have no reason to defer to anyone else’s judgment.”
Good points, and probably useful advice for the geniuses on the left to whom it was seemingly obvious that I wouldn’t get elected, or to whom it was seemingly obvious that they were the geniuses who understood how to stop stoopid ole me from getting myself elected.
Better luck next time!
Me, I’m a super genius, so Dunning-Kruger tells me that I’m even righter than I think I am. Ok, if you say so. Who am I to argue with science?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Edward,
Don't despair, Craig Fry likes to pull half-baked nonsense out of the social sciences that he reads on the internet. He seems particularly fascinated with outdated and/or debunked cognitive bias measures that, not-so-ironically, fit his personal worldview. He attacks people--and then cries like a little boy when someone points out his intellectual shortcomings. Surrounded by like-minded fools here, no doubt he has come to believe he is the norm. Still, he is a particularly dark and curious case.
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Trump
climber
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Oh those silly Republicans. No-one’s going to be fooled into believing that the Democrats are going to impeach me!
Or will they be fooled? Or is it true that the Democrats will impeach me?
I guess stranger things, like me being elected, have happened. Ok, let’s give it a shot, and explain how we were right about it in retrospect.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump....I didn't vote for you but i must say i have the utmost respect for your genius and stability... Are you planning on going transgender when you move in with Pootin and who's Melania going to hook up with after the divorce...? RJ
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Kevin Williams ouster from Atlantic reveals major hypocrisy in conservative media
“The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible.”
XCon,
What little I know about Williams sounds mostly pretty bad. But he raises a real issue about struggling communities even if his language is offensive.
I have extended family in a small, farming community. The type that no longer has a grocery store and an ever higher percentage with grey hair.
I can understand why the residents don't want to move away from the home, family and friends they know. Many probably don't have any money to re-locate anyway.
But it is a costly place to run a retirement home. The nearest thing that has any sort of medical services is over a half hour away. There aren't much in the way of jobs except those related to social services and there aren't as many young/middle age people to take them either.
The farming is large scale mechanized. You don't need many farmers now that the tractors drive themselves and the workers tend to commute in from the further, larger towns/cities.
I'm sure the town consumes much more in government services than it pays in taxes. I certainly don't begrudge social services to formerly hard working families that have paid into the system for decades. But maintaining city services such as sewer, water, streets, etc is pricy compared to the number of residents. Bringing in distant emergency responders and ambulances is pricy. Seeing stone buildings that were built 50~100+(?) years ago is kind of neat, but everything is run down and generally depressing. I would guess the opioid addiction has hit hard.
It would be a lot cheaper and more efficient if that "town" relocated in its entirety next to a larger, surrounding town. And as far as morally, I'm not sure I would defend that town either.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The depopulation of the Great Plains has been underway for some time.
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WBraun
climber
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The farming is large scale mechanized.
And the food that comes out of there is dry tasteless dead sterile crap.
St00pid modern sterile people .......
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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well I guess we just have to take Donald Trump's word that he is not a Muslim
despite there being few if any photos of him worshipping in a Christian church...troubling
he has never released the long form of birth certificate, what is he hiding?
rumors that he attended a terrorist training camp in Syria in the 1970s.....educated in Sharia law
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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.....educated in Sharia law
Sorry Norton, you're not allowed to use the 'e' word when referring to The Trumpster. Plus, we're getting enough Sharia law from the evangelicals....... they just can't seem to understand that what they want to do is exactly that, because 'GOD'. You better start believing their way boy, or you're going to that section of Hell reserved for Infidels. And it ain't pretty; when God gets angry She can be a real bitch.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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I thought Jesus was a he...?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Lynching map.
"you're fired ... er ... hung "
Good people on both sides.
Get out ur Trump support maps. Not sayin' all Trumpers descended from lynchers, but you do the math.
Republicans said Mr. Trump’s push for withdrawal appeared to have given Mr. Assad the impression that he could again use chemical weapons without fear of a U.S. response.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Trump....I didn't vote for you but i must say i have the utmost respect for your genius and stability... Are you planning on going transgender when you move in with Pootin and who's Melania going to hook up with after the divorce...? RJ
Stormy's attorney.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 04:48am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Michael Avenatti is too good of a catch for the likes of a divorced Melania Trump. He is way out of her league. He wouldn't need her divorce settlement money, and even speaking five foreign languages wouldn't qualify her as an interesting dinner date. Melania had to settle for marrying Donald Trump because she's not good enough for guys like Michael Avenatti.
Don't tell me what cases you've won. Tell me who you've beaten.
This trial was a search for the truth. And the jury found it.
Let's talk about Michael Cohen, what kind of man this is. This is the kind of guy who claimed in connection with that story that there is no such thing as spousal rape. This is a legal genius. Right. Completely false. The guy doesn't even know the law. He's a thug. Your friend is a thug. Thug. Thug. Thug. Thug. Thug. . . . . . . Thug. Thug. Thug. Thug.
Avenatti made the comments to Michael Cohen's attorney, David Schwartz, on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360. Avenatti repeated the word 20 times, counted out on his fingers, to mock Michael Cohen's claim that Stormy Daniels owes him 20 million dollars. Schwartz' retort was, "You know what? You're a thug."
Trump is terrified of the real storm of the Stormy Daniels case, and his name is Michael Avenatti. The best that Trump and Cohen can hope for is to remember to sit on ShamWow towels when Avenatti deposes them.
Los Angeles Times article on Michael Avenatti from a few days ago.
Once you've driven 190 miles per hour in the pouring rain, in the middle of the night, down the Mulsanne Straight with prototype cars whizzing by you at 240-plus miles per hour … compared to that, what I'm doing right now (the Stormy Daniels case) is a warm-up lap.
VVVVVVVVV Trump and Avenatti are a matched set, and perfect as prime-time combatants.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Michael Avenatti is proof they didn't break the mold when they made The Donald.
Another win-at-all costs d-bag.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Tom Tomorrow channels the Madbolter in this installment
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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I thought Jesus was a he...?
He is. He's Her son.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 08:26am PT
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As people like Pence like to say,
"He's Jesus, not Shesus."
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Trump don’t need no stinkin’ advisers. He’s got his gut, a golden crapper, Fox News and Twitter. What could possibly go wrong?
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michaeld
climber
Beta Sprayer at your Gym
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Wait, President Trump is going to get impeached? For what? This is insane!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Trump will be impeached for whatever the U.S. House of Representatives decides to impeach him for. There is no rule.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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FBI raids office of trump lawyer Michael Cohen. Awaiting one hell of a tweet...
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Impeachment does not mean automatic removal.
He needs to be completely out of office. Maybe then the slow process of stain removal can begin.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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When you assume, for the moment, the opposite is correct (i.e., everything in the news about Trump and Russians is fake) and you get only contradictions and absurd conclusions, then you know that the opposite is NOT correct(i.e. the Trump and Russian news stories are true). This is known as reductio ad absurdum, and was known to the ancient Greeks as a valid way to determine the truth (they used the technique in about 400 B.C. to prove that the square-root of 2 is an irrational number).
Tom
You can use this to prove the Climate Change Denialism is absurd.
Let's look at the absurdity:
The scientists are making up the data to keep their jobs....
Now the facts;
The scientists would keep their jobs no matter what the evidence happens to be, so that proves that WRONG.
Who has more a financial reward, a scientist that reports a Falsehood,
or the fossil fuel company that makes billions selling their product that causes climate change.
What about the rising temperatures and Carbon dioxide concentrations, no one doubts these, it's just what the future may turn out to be is the concern.
Scientists are concerned with the future of the planet, they study what's happening
Fossil fuel Companies are concerned with selling as much of their product before they run out or stopped or phased out by superior products that don't cause climate change
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Blue Wave Tsunami Warning
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/politics/california-teens-preregister-to-vote/index.html
A whopping 100,000 16- and 17-year-olds have preregistered to vote in the Golden State since a law enacted in 2016 gave young people the opportunity to sign up to vote before they are eligible, California Secretary of State Alex Padilla said last week.
The number is an increase from the roughly 90,000 who had preregistered to vote in California as of a month ago.
"The numbers keep going up," Padilla told CNN. "These kids know that to change the political environment and policy, they need to register to vote, and they need to vote."
Padilla's announcement was tied to the launch of HighSchool.sos.ca.gov, a new portal on the secretary of state's website connecting youth with civic engagement opportunities. Later this month, Padilla said, he will kick off California High School Voter Education Weeks, where he will hold rallies and speak to thousands of students about the importance of voter registration and preregistration.
"A couple of years ago, it took a lot of work to convince young people why it's important to register to vote and to vote," Padilla said. "It's not that hard of a case to make anymore."
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The raid on Cohens office and home was cleared through Rosenstein , and conducted by the US Attorney's office, a Trump appointee. Trump crapp'n his pants over this one.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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That reminds me: who said "when you go to prison for defrauding America and perjury, your room and board will be free!"?
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Bet there are forces out there that want to strip Trump & Co. of their tinker toys and cracker box palaces. Donald has made a lot of powerful enemies in the business community and within the GOP.
Things are going to get a lot hotter me thinks!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
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Wait, President Trump is going to get impeached? For what? This is insane!
It is insane. It's the worst political situation the Unites States has ever faced. It is doubly insane because Trump was alive and sentient during the Watergate debacle, yet Trump chooses to repeat Nixon's disastrous mistakes.
President Trump has committed numerous impeachable offenses, and he continues to do so on a regular basis. It is insane that Trump thinks he can get away with his crimes by lying to the public, firing prosecutors, obstructing investigations, invoking an imaginary absolute authority, pardoning himself, and believing that he is above the law.
It is TOTALLY insane that Trump is in the most legally perilous position of any U.S. President, but ignores the legal advice of government and personal attorneys. Trump is so insane, he believes his best course of action is to "wing it" alone, and improvise contradictory actions and statements as the cases against him proceed apace.
Trump's behavior is so insane, no competent attorney will represent him. Trump's previous attorneys have mostly quit, and the others can only engage in ineffectual legal buffoonery.
It't just like my Mama used to say, "Crazy is as crazy does".
Forrest Trump
It is insane that Trump's supporters are calling for the Special Prosecutor to prematurely reveal what he's discovered during an ongoing investigation.
It is insane that Trump's supporters are calling for an end to the investigations, to allow the underlying crimes to stand.
It is insane that elected officials entrusted to investigate crimes against the United States are, instead, obstructing those same investigations as co-conspirators after the fact.
Here are some criminal charges for which Trump might be impeached:
Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, who was investigating Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. Trump later told a television reporter he did it because of the Russian investigation. Trump also attempted to coerce Comey into cancelling the FBI's investigation into ex-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, in a matter related to the Russian interference. Both actions were attempts to obstruct Federal investigations, which is a crime.
Trump has refused to recuse himself from the ongoing business of running the Trump Hotel in the former D.C. post office. Every time a foreign official pays to stay there, it violates the emoluments clause of the Constitution. As President, Trump may not receive any sort of payment or gift from any foreign king, official, agent, etc. Maryland brought a lawsuit over this, which is still before the courts. Trump's use of the hotel to justify the payments to his business, and his false statements that he is not involved in that business, do not allow him to violate the Constitution, and his oath to protect and defend it.
A $130,000 illegal campaign contribution was paid to a woman to keep her quiet about a sex affair she had with Trump. That was a felony violation of Federal campaign finance laws. Trump's role in the sordid affair may never be fully known, but his personal efforts to conceal the payment and deceive investigators may constitute obstruction of justice, and conspiracy to commit the same. Very soon, Trump will likely commit perjury under oath, which will be a separate, additional felony for which he can be charged.
It is illegal for foreign individuals and entities to contribute funds to American election campaigns. Anyone who assists in such contributions, or accepts them, or knowingly benefits from them, is guilty of the crime of conspiracy to defraud the United States. Impeaching Trump for that crime would make additional sense, because such payments would demonstrate he obtained the office through election fraud.
Money that is illicitly brought into the United States and used in sham transactions to introduce it into the legitimate economy is a Federal crime. It is colloquially known as "money laundering". A person who assists in crimes of that sort, such as a real estate seller who accepts illicit cash in exchange for property, is guilty of conspiracy. It is widely known that Trump has sold tens of millions of dollars of NYC real estate to anonymous LLC entities in all-cash transactions. The details of those transactions were intended to be complex and surreptitious, but are now being investigated by the Special Counsel, which has hired the best white-collar crime investigators in the country.
It is a crime to aid, abet and/or give comfort to enemies that have attacked the United States. Russia attacked and perverted the United States' electoral process, ostensibly to assist Trump. Trump later passed top secret information to Russian officials (in the Oval Office, no less) and has refused to enforce laws passed by Congress to sanction Russia for the election interference. Those actions aided, abetted and/or gave comfort to the Russian government. Treason is a crime punishable by death.
Impeachment does not mean automatic removal.
Impeachment is a procedure analogous to a criminal indictment. Evidence is presented to demonstrate the need for a subsequent procedure, which is usually a trial.
With respect to Trump, the House of Representatives can bring impeachment proceedings. A simple majority there will proceed the case to a trial in the Senate. The Chief Justice would be the judge there, and a 2/3 majority would remove the President from office.
Once the President is removed from office, he can be charged with his crimes in a regular court of law, like any other citizen.
There is some legal ambiguity as to whether a sitting president may be criminally charged while he is still in office. But, it has been previously shown that a sitting President can be sued in civil court for offenses he committed prior to taking office.
Stormy Daniels' attorney filed paperwork late Sunday night to compel Trump and his attorney, Michael Cohen, to testify, under oath, in a deposition related to the $130,000 payment and accompanying non-disclosure agreement.
Amazingly, Trump won't admit to the affair, blowing off the payment as being chump change for a billionaire, and put the matter to rest. Cohen would still be on the hook for the illegal campaign contribution, but at least Trump, himself, would have much less legal exposure.
Do you like peaches? Well, how do you like them impeaches?
dialogue for a remake of the Stormy Daniels film, Good Will Humping
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WBraun
climber
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Russia attacked and perverted the United States' electoral process
You're a total brainwashed nutcase Tom that believes everything you are spoon fed.
And Assad did Not gas his own people.
You are totally insane worst than Trump, dumber than Trump ......
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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“It is whole new level of unfairness “. Lol.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
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WVB, with all due and well-earned respect, reality is a democratic process.
My assertions align with those made by United States' intelligence and law enforcement agencies, and with what little the Special Prosecutor has revealed so far.
But, until the noose is actually tightened, and the feet drop through the hatch, everybody is entitled to their personal opinion about what will occur in the future.
As NostraThomas, I am only presenting my personal opinions and prognostications for the amusement and possible education of others.
Don't know. Mongo only pawn in game of life.
dialogue from Blazing Saddles
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WBraun
climber
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You are a brainwashed nutcase, dumber than Trump and worst than Trump .....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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THocking, I like your image of the elephant and the donkey finger-cuffing the sheep.
I guess the Republicans and Democrats just fight over which end of the sheep they get to exploit.
WVB says I am "worse than Trump". That's true.
Trump never hung on a cam when the belayer wasn't looking.
Trump never built a summit campfire in an "existing fire pit" that didn't exist until he built a campfire at that spot.
Trump never Fedexed his haul bags from the ZMDZ to the ZMLZ in the middle of the night using a FISH rainfly as a parachute, while relying on Whipley's Formula to figure out how far to crack open the tops of the empty water bottles to cushion the impact at splash down.
Trump never snuck into the Ahwanhee Hotel's second floor lounge to scrounge their free coffee and to read their free newspapers.
Trump never went canning in the middle of the night with a long, thin stick.
Michael Cohen is the link to Russian moneyman Felix Sater, who has ostensibly been cooperating with investigators. The raid on Cohen's office was probably planned long ago, but now was the appropriate time for that particular card to be played.
Nowadays, when poll takers ask, "How do you like Trump?", the appropriate response is, "Well done".
He is COOKED.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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The raid on Cohens office and home was cleared through Rosenstein , and conducted by the US Attorney's office, a Trump appointee.
I suspect Trump is pissing off the wrong people.......
You're a total brainwashed nutcase Tom that believes everything you are spoon fed.
And you believe what, exactly, Duck? I know you enjoy being a troll, but at some point you should explain exactly what you DO believe. All you post are negatives denouncing others as being
...... totally insane worst than Trump, dumber than Trump ......
There are a bunch of very intelligent people on the Taco, and they contribute thoughtful and frequently well documented opinions. You, on the other hand, just quack. You're a smart, experienced guy and post interesting and insightful comments on other threads; why not here?
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WBraun
climber
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More st00pid worthless sh!t from Tom.
You're insane ....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
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DMT, thanks for the good word.
But, WVB and his ilk don't bother me.
I eat trolls for breakfast.
They belong right there in the California breakfast bowl along with the fruits, nuts and flakes.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
We should all desist from ad hominem (and ad Tominem) attacks. They are just a distraction from valid discourse.
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WBraun
climber
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Says the copy paste knows nothing guy Malemute ^^^^^
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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another typical day for the President, spent constantly belittling, personally attacking others
so insecure about himself, very low self esteem, knowing he doesn't measure up to those he attacks
early dementia, severe narcism, but mostly just an ass of a man
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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tRump is the dog that chases the car and doesn’t know what to do when he catches it. No offense to dogs.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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Trump says that the FBI raid on his attorney's office and hotel room to seize evidence related to a bank fraud is a "disgraceful situation".
For once, Trump has told the truth.
I never thought Trump was capable of self-awareness and acknowledgement of the disgraceful situation he has placed the nation in.
Trump must have found redemption and salvation through Shesus. No doubt, there was a laying on of hands, and speaking in tongues that led to Trump's miraculous transformation of contrition. He's cured, Praise God!
I am skeptical that Trump's current awareness that his Presidency is a disgraceful situation and an attack on the United States in the truest sense of the word will last more than a few hours.
Trump will relapse as soon as he gets one tiny sip of Hannity.
The Constitutional Crisis is almost upon us, but we must not flee in terror from the vile words spoken by the son of the Devil. The nation must stand strong, and prove the wisdom of the Founding Fathers by properly ridding ourselves of the Presidential pestilence.
The nation's failed experiment in extemporaneous governance by a dilettante outlier is almost over.
We will soon be able to proudly wear blue hats that say, NEVER AGAIN!
Nobody thought Michael Jordan playing baseball was a good idea.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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well, it looks like it's time to tune back into this, the 17th season of the apprentice...
cause shIt is getting real out there for a few folks:
1. cohen: not everyday the president of the u.s. of a.'s attorney has his home, his car and his hotel "served" with no knock raids... and it's not everyday that this is reportedly due to the president of the u.s. of a.'s personal attorney being investigated for bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign finance violations...
2. the american people: when el presidente rehires a war hawk like john r. bolton as the national security advisor, it's time to collectively pull up the big boy pants 'cause history tells us there will be war coming down the pipeline once the propaganda machines have had a chance to lube the collective american consciousness... and if you think "deposing" of trump is going to solve that, go watch this vid from today and notice who is sitting directly to the right and who is sitting directly to the left of mr. trumperino.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
3. the syrian people: it doesn't matter that reuter's is reporting that initial assessments by the u.s. government have not determined what chemical agent was used nor what the source was, because now the israelis are throwing bombs too... 'cause really who would want to miss out on fUcking the syrian people at this point?
1+2+3= while nothing is inevitable, it looks like we've got a structure vs chaos fight between the elites within the u.s. at the same time that proxy wars are heating up overseas...
ie. i'd say the biggest loser is going to once again be the syrian people, with the next biggest loser being the american people as the doubling down on previously and repeatedly failed foreign and economic policies continues unabated, while the distraction to all of this continues to play out in all of its kabuki theatre styled largesse [and so the headlining domestic news will ultimately result in little to no change to the track that the u.s. is on, even if el drumpf himself ends up back in trump tower rather than the white house, and all of his associates/attorneys/advisors end up in prison]...
because yes... STORMMMMYYY!!!1!!!!! and the RUSSSIANS!!!!11!!!1!!!! and HILLLARRRYY!!!!111!!1!!! just like BENGHAZZZZIIIII!!!1!!!!! before them...
are [respective to the color of our partisan hats] the prizes we should all be pouring our attention and focus towards. [/s]
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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The Constitutional Crisis is almost upon us, but we must not flee in terror from the vile words spoken by the son of the Devil. The nation must stand strong, and prove the wisdom of the Founding Fathers by properly ridding ourselves of the Presidential pestilence.
Petulant liberals and DC bureaucrats and their ongoing post-election temper tantrums are what is causing this crisis. Hell, even Ken Starr didn't violate attorney-client privilege with a bogus raid. Enough of this. No collusion. There never was. Time to get on with the business of the country. Fire Rosenstein and, by extension, Mueller. Immediately. And impeach the judge who authorized this violation of sacred law.
If any of you tools ever find yourselves under legal suspicion, would you be ok with the prosecutor using law enforcement to start turning over file cabinets and desk drawers at your attorney's office--or home? What's next?
FWIW, I couldn't give two-shits about Trump. And I understand why he is disliked by many. But we had a legitimate election--and we'll have another one in 2020. Get on with your lives.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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^
Spare me. You know well and good there is no Federal interest in the Stormy Daniels affair--or who paid her. This is yet another Mueller fishing expedition, grasping at straws to justify his Russia-collusion dearth by any means necessary. Shut it down.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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“I am your president”
Makin’ ‘Merica great “again”
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Somebody- Lituya is a bot. He/she was assigned for Taco subversion by Russian intelligence.
He/she also subverts backpacking, mountain biking, river rafting and Parkour forums, however hers/his favorite venue is the bird watching forums. Hypersensitive liberals clothed in Safari atire and River shoes abound.
The Parkour forums are nice to recruit sweatsuit wearing Eastern euros, sympathetic to the cause.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
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Comrade Lityukov has the right to his opinion.
I think it's wrong and delusional. Or, propaganda to bolster the criminal defendants' absurd claims of innocence.
But, he's entitled to his opinion.
At any rate, a fact is a fact is a fact. And opinions are not facts.
FACT:
Cohen's own action - the $130,000 payment - caused his own bank to file a Suspicious Activity Report with the Treasury Department.
FACT:
A prosecutor got the warrant to raid Cohen's office, car, cellphone, etc. based on evidence presented to a New York Federal Judge. The prosecutor was not Robert Mueller, but someone else. The case is being brought in New York District Court, and is unrelated (for now) to what Mueller is investigating.
FACT:
Potential bank fraud would be a suspicious activity that a bank would be required, by law, to report. They did, and now Cohen is being investigated.
OPINION:
Trump's response to the raid of his attorney's office was hilarious, yet vaguely threatening when he mentioned the "most powerful military in the world".
FACT:
At one point, Trump defensively clasped himself tightly with both arms, and began shifting from side to side, as in "He's a shifty character".
OPINION:
Trump's tailor should make him a ShamWow! suit, so that he doesn't make a big mess when he melts down. It would be like a body-diaper for the Liar in Chief.
One step closer to Trump, sweet Jesus
One step closer to Trump
Warrants downtown for his attorney's papers
One step closer to Trump
Spare me. You know well and good there is no Federal interest in the Stormy Daniels affair-
First of all, it was Trump himself that moved to have the case heard in a Federal court.
Second, the payment was intended to benefit Trump right before the election. It was made in violation of Federal election laws.
Third, Robert Mueller hasn't shown all the cards he's holding. And, he won't until the time is right to play them, one by one. The $130,000 payment is exactly the type of thing he would be investigating, particularly whether it came from a foreign source.
OPINION:
NostraThomas predicts that the Stormy Daniels payment will be shown to have come from Russia, via a convoluted but provable route that included Michael Cohen. Cohen's bank was alerted to the suspicious activity because Cohen isn't the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree. For one thing, he used a bank in New York City, where everybody hates Donald Trump, to conduct suspicious activity to benefit Donald Trump.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Whitewater
Vince Foster
Benghazi
But this, of course, this is a 'witchhunt'...
The GOP are such whiny bitches when the shoe's on the other foot. Maybe don't use investigations for political purposes in the future because that sh#t can go both ways.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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And it's the cons investigating the cons. Libs are not in power in any branch of fed government.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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Trump's mind has snapped under the pressure.
Before, Trump relied on Fox and Friends on TV for his morning intelligence briefing. Now he is going outside that channel, and relying on a new source of information when making national policy decisions.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Petulant liberals and DC bureaucrats and their ongoing post-election temper tantrums are what is causing this crisis. Hell, even Ken Starr didn't violate attorney-client privilege with a bogus raid. Enough of this. No collusion. There never was. Time to get on with the business of the country. Fire Rosenstein and, by extension, Mueller. Immediately. And impeach the judge who authorized this violation of sacred law.
If any of you tools ever find yourselves under legal suspicion, would you be ok with the prosecutor using law enforcement to start turning over file cabinets and desk drawers at your attorney's office--or home? What's next?
FWIW, I couldn't give two-shits about Trump. And I understand why he is disliked by many. But we had a legitimate election--and we'll have another one in 2020. Get on with your lives.
there sure is a lot of obstruction of justice.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Please, feel free to enjoy your little soap opera--with all the attendant "what-ifs" and "here's what I think is gonna happen next" conspiracy excitement. Most of the country doesn't really care, because they know nonsense, hypocrisy, and sour grapes when they see it.
In any event, if Trump is somehow impeached, well, I'm fine with Pence. Frankly, even better. No doubt you all will remain very angry people either way.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Lity - the sad truth is there will be no impeachment, chaos will continue to engulf the Whitehouse. But the Democrats will take over the house. Just remember, elections have consequences.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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I'm fine with gridlock. The new House can impeach, but without the Senate to remove from office, well, nada.
Speaking of the Senate, I'm still hoping Trump gets one more SC pick before it potentially turns too. Glad to see he'll get a couple of 9th CCA picks in the meantime. And I'm really glad that Democrats nuked the Senate filibuster for judicial nominees during Obama's tenure. Consequences.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Apr 10, 2018 - 12:00am PT
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A "new" New Deal in 2020 followed by a second Constitutional Convention?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 10, 2018 - 03:01am PT
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In any event, if Trump is somehow impeached, well, I'm fine with Pence. Frankly, even better. No doubt you all will remain very angry people either way.
Pence has already lied his ass off and so is already good and well screwed in all this and likely won't survive either - more likely speaker of the house.
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perswig
climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 03:04am PT
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orwellming ??
Is that a typo, or is that weirdly prophetic, Freudian, something?
No way he'd come up with that on his own.
Dale
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 10, 2018 - 05:34am PT
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Michael Cohen's threat to a Daily Beast reporter regarding unfavorable reporting about Trump.
"I will make sure that you and I meet one day while we're in the courthouse. And I will take you for every penny you still don't have. And I will come after your Daily Beast and everybody else that you possibly know," Cohen said. "So I'm warning you, tread very f*#king lightly, because what I'm going to do to you is going to be f*#king disgusting. You understand me?"
Haha!!!
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 10, 2018 - 06:06am PT
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The US Attorney who obtained the search warrant for Cohen's stuff was appointed by Trump and was a cohort of Guliani's. There must really be some stinky stuff for that warrant to be approved by a Republican judge........
Here's Chris Christie on the warrant.......
“We’re looking at the U.S. District Attorney for the Southern District of New York, who I know well,” Christie said, referring to Geoffrey Berman, the official who would have had to have signed off on the raid. “This is a good guy… he’s a Boy Scout. He’ll do the right thing.”
Looks like some people are checking their life preservers.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 07:54am PT
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Unlikely Trump will be impeached. Very unlikly he would be convicted if he was.
What's a mother to do?
Indict him.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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Flip at least one branch of the legislature to ensure a public investigation and airing of any violations, then vote him out in 2 1/2 years. Impeachment is a no go.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 08:32am PT
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Welcome back, Pud!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 10, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Wild stuff. The U.S. Attorney for the SD of NY (a Trump appointee) had to approve the warrant application and then a federal judge had to issue it. Seeking a warrant in the first place means the FBI thought Cohen would likely destroy records if they were sought voluntarily or through a subpoena and that they have shown probable cause that Cohen has committed federal crimes.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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Well, the people in charge of the hunt (us attorney, Rosenstein, chrs Wray, Mueller, Comey bitd) are all Republicans, so trump is right in that it is a partisan effort.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:08am PT
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Like the witch says, "It's a fair cop".
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:11am PT
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but her emails. . . . . . .
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:31am PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:32am PT
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well, I guess I take Mr Trump's word that he is not a Muslim, but I have my doubts
any photos showing him attending a Christian church ceremony are likely doctored
I read that he was born in Indonesia, educated in a Syrian terrorist training camp..
and sent to the US to become President in order to impose Sharia Law
let's see the long form birth certificate..
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 10, 2018 - 10:14am PT
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Norton
Mar 26, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
well, I take Donald Trump's word that he is not a Muslim...
I mean, um, something irrelevant about a Muslim father ...I forget
but the important thing is that I really don't know if Trump is not a Muslim
I mean he "says" he is not, but how are we all to know for sure he is not?
Norton
Mar 27, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
Well, I take Trump's word that he is not a Muslim but I have my doubts
Norton
Mar 27, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
proof that Trump is a secret Muslim is that there are no credible, unaltered, photos of him in a Christian church
Norton
Apr 8, 2018 - 05:34pm PT
well I guess we just have to take Donald Trump's word that he is not a Muslim
despite there being few if any photos of him worshipping in a Christian church...troubling
Norton
Apr 10, 2018 - 09:32am PT
well, I guess I take Mr Trump's word that he is not a Muslim, but I have my doubts
any photos showing him attending a Christian church ceremony are likely doctored
Time to let it go?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 10, 2018 - 11:08am PT
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well, I guess I take Mr Trump's word that he is not a Muslim, but I have my doubts
any photos showing him attending a Christian church ceremony are likely doctored
I read that he was born in Indonesia, educated in a Syrian terrorist training camp..
and sent to the US to become President in order to impose Sharia Law
let's see the long form birth certificate..
No don't let it go, this is a complicated issued and we need Norton's help to sort it out.
Norton, here is the deal:
Under sharia law, Obama is a Muslim.
In your opinion, I suppose, Obama is not a Muslim.
So the question is: who gets to decide who is a Muslim: you or Muslims?
I think it's a close call, I can see both sides on that one:
On the one hand, we have Norton, a seemingly highly intelligent person whose opinion holds great sway on on all manner of subjects.
On the other hand, we have over a billion Muslims who have sharia law that is used to determine all sorts of issues, including who is a Muslim.
Very perplexing . . .
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 10, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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So the question is: who gets to decide who is a Muslim: you or Muslims?
My guess is that Obama gets to decide if he is Muslim or not.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 10, 2018 - 11:49am PT
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My guess is that Obama gets to decide if he is Muslim or not.
Maybe that's a good guess, but I'm not so sure.
Would it fly in a Sharia court?
Is there a difference between:
Do you consider yourself a Muslim, and
Do Muslims consider you a Muslim?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 10, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
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*Many conservatives have a loose relationship with facts. The right-wing denial of what most people think of as accepted reality starts with political issues: As recently as 2016, 45 percent of Republicans still believed that the Affordable Care Act included “death panels” (it doesn’t). A 2015 poll found that 54 percent of GOP primary voters believed then-President Obama to be a Muslim (…he isn’t).
*Then there are the false beliefs about generally accepted science. Only 25 percent of self-proclaimed Trump voters agree that climate change is caused by human activities. Only 43 percent of Republicans overall believe that humans have evolved over time.
*And then it gets really crazy. Almost 1 in 6 Trump voters, while simultaneously viewing photographs of the crowds at the 2016 inauguration of Donald Trump and at the 2012 inauguration of Barack Obama , insisted that the former were larger. Sixty-six percent of self-described “very conservative” Americans seriously believe that “Muslims are covertly implementing Sharia law in American courts.” Forty-six percent of Trump voters polled just after the 2016 election either thought that Hillary Clinton was connected to a child sex trafficking ring run out of the basement of a pizzeria in Washington, D.C., or weren’t sure if it was true.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/11/why_conservatives_are_more_susceptible_to_believing_in_lies.html
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 10, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
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Would it fly in a Sharia court?
Who cares what flies in a Sharia court. I don't. Do you?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 10, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
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Makes sense that Republicans would be ignorant of the facts. Republicans tend to be less educated and less successful than Democrats.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2018 - 01:32pm PT
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The raid on Cohes's data was done exactly according to Federal guidelines. Permission had to come from the highest level of the DOJ and a Federal judge. A separate DOJ team will go through Cohen's papers to sort out those related to his criminal activity, while shielding the others from prosecutors. The attorney-client privilege will be maintained, except for information related to Cohen's personal criminal activity.
But, the Trump apologists said the raid was illegal, and violated every American standard of decency. The apologists pretend that alternative realities can be manufactured, at will, as the need arises. They relied on "alternative facts" (not Federal law) to arrive at a delusion that the raid was illegal. Then, Fox and Hannity broadcast the delusion wholesale to susceptible, uneducated viewers who believed it to be reality.
The nation is fighting a second civil war, a battle for reality.
This situation is exactly what George Orwell was talking about in 1984.
An Alternative Reality is not the same thing as a Separate Reality.
A Separate Reality is a book about the intentional use of psychoactive substances (e.g., peyote) to achieve altered states of consciousness.**
"Alternative Facts" is a line of horseshit that came out of Kellyanne Conway's horse's ass of a mouth in furtherance of a delusional alternative reality wherein Trump's inauguration audience was the largest in history.
Trump and his foul ilk are going to lose their battle for reality, but it is going to take a concerted effort to defeat them before they destroy America.
** Separate Reality is the name of a famous Yosemite roof crack climb established by Ron Kauk. Tales of Power is another book by Castaneda, and the name of a steep corner crack leading to Separate Reality, also established by Ron Kauk.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 10, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
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Trump won't fire Mueller. On the Advice of some very crooked Senators, sycophant advisors and crafty layers, Trump will fire Jeff Sessions. This will result in the new Patsy AG replacing Rosenstein.
At this point all the aforementioned will work in concert to smother the Special counsel's Report.
The goal will be to get this to the Supreme Court where Trump has clear advantage.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 10, 2018 - 01:58pm PT
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Would it fly in a Sharia court?
Who cares what flies in a Sharia court. I don't. Do you?
Yes I do, not because I agree with it (I don't), but because I believe it's useful to understand the the thought process of something like a billion people on the planet, when at least some non-trivial number of them are motivated by their beliefs to do some rather extreme things.
Sometimes other people's beliefs have consequences, even when we disagree with them.
Would someone whose parents were Jews have been able to escape Nazi Germany by pointing out that he or she didn't believe in the Jewish religion and didn't accept that the traditional definition of Jewishness?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
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Makes sense that Republicans would be ignorant of the facts. Republicans tend to be less educated and less successful than Democrats.
Better fact-check that. Your definition of "education" notwithstanding, the 2016 election was the first time in decades more baccalaureate-holders voted Democrat. True, more post-graduate degree holders vote D--and have for a while. Who cares.
Not sure what exactly you're trying to say with your revealing statement. "We Democrats are, in fact, the one-percenters?" "Those not in possession of higher degrees are not worthy votes?" "We know best?"
Elitism in a nutshell.
Beck, I think we're really getting somewhere now! Please continue.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
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Hurray for us, we right and righteous crusaders for truth, Justice, and the American way! Boo to the other half of our democracy, my deplorable evil supporters and their wrongheaded way of being a human!
We are literally on the right side of history. That’s exactly what I’m saying. You, while distracted by our T-crossing and I-dotting obsessions, are just hearing it wrong.
Wishing you well, either way.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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This will result in the new Patsy AG replacing Rosenstein
Unlike installing Bolton as National Security Advisor, a replacement Attorney General would have to be confirmed by the Senate. At least a few Republican Senators have indicated they will not tolerate a Saturday Night Massacre-type grab for absolute power by the President. At 49-52 (that dunce Pence gets a vote if there is a tie) there would be sufficient opposition to keep Luce Ferro (or whomever Trump picks) from becoming a new Attorney General.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 10, 2018 - 02:44pm PT
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*Despite occasional left forays into reality denial, conservatives are far more likely to accept misinformation and outright lies.
*Deliberate campaigns of misinformation and conservative preferences for information that fits in with their pre-existing ideology provide only a partial explanation. Faulty reasoning and judgment, rooted in the interactions between modes of reasoning and judgment shared by all with the specific personality patterns found disproportionately among conservatives may also play a central role.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/11/why_conservatives_are_more_susceptible_to_believing_in_lies.html
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 10, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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Most Republicans are very misinformed and therefore ignorant of the facts about most issues.
lower educated people are the most vulnerable to misinformation from authoritarians, and this misinformation leads them to be threatened and fearful and then vote Republican
but even highly educated right wingers can be led astray with misinformation and believe it no matter what the facts may be, these people are called fascists, they choose to be misinformed.
so it makes sense that Trump loves the poorly educated, they are most ignorant and therefore the easiest people to dupe with his lies and con job.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Apr 10, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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Right wingers are the conspiracy nutters of the world...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 10, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
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So the question is: who gets to decide who is a Muslim: you or Muslims?
Sort of reminds me of the Mormons converting Jews to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after they were dead and buried and without their, or their living relatives, permission. I guess I can unilaterally declare anyone as a member of my little church and tough luck for them if they don't like it. Ah, the power of my God is awesome!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
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Ah, the power of my God is awesome!!!
God didn't have jack sh!t to do with it.
Some fools did.
Why do you people always make up a bunch a bullsh!t masquarading as truths.
That's why this thread is sooo full of sh!t and proves once again you people are insane ......
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Apr 10, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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lotta duck poop here..
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 10, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
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Why do you people always make up a bunch a bullsh!t masquarading as truths.
Pot, meet kettle.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 10, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
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Please....remember what happens to political threads that turn ugly with name-calling. Try to stay focused on the topic and not start bashing others.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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Despite occasional left forays into reality denial, conservatives are far more likely to accept misinformation and outright lies.
Generalizations can't predict the behavior of any one person in a group, but there certainly are situations, like the one above, where statistically those in a particular group are likely to behave in a certain way.
One of the most consistent characteristics of Republicans is their continual theft of musical compositions as the theme music for their campaigns. Being unpopular themselves, they attempt a popularity-by-proxy gambit by ripping off popular songs from people who absolutely hate their stinking guts.
Naturally, the musicians then have to send cease and desist letters to stop the unauthorized use of their property.
At one point in Trump's campaign, he claimed that a general music license, like that for a bar or dance club, applied to the arena where he had brought his MAGA act. Trump's super-brain told him he was allowed to appropriate, free of charge, any music that would jolt his Gawking Dead audience to life.
There have been instances of Democrats using music without permission, but the Repub-to-Dem ratio was about 20:1 the last time I checked.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
When Trump is good, he can be the best. And when he's bad, he's the absolute WORST.
Trump's weather vane, compass, GPS and conscience are all broken. He keeps pointing himself in the wrong direction.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Apr 10, 2018 - 06:21pm PT
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Nope, that was mentioned by China a while ago as part of their plans.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 10, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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The psychology of partisans is so interesting. Some people feel they have to pick a side. Then they will believe whatever they need (and whatever they read) to reinforce that they made the right decision.
When Trump said "grab them by the pussy", and 1/3 of Americans were able to justify that is acceptable for a candidate for POTUS, is when I realized there's nothing you can say that will get through to these kind of people. Even as I write this I can imagine the mental gymnastics they will go through as they read it so they can keep believing what they need to believe.
Anyway I'm glad Muellers on the case and he will go where the evidence leads. I hope he finds evidence of impeachable offenses and Trump is thrown out. It will be a lot of pain for the country in the short term. But in the long term it would be good to show that someone that dishonest and disgraceful will get what they deserve and people will think twice about voting for a similar jackass in the future.
Oh yeah I realized Trump tweets and statements make perfect sense if you assume they mean the complete opposite of what he says. E.g. "Partisan witch hunt" actually means "Republicans appointed by me have compelling evidence to investigate me". Try it! It totally works. :-)
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 10, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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Orange is the new Orange and the new jumpsuit will suit Trump to a tee...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 10, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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Next on Mueller's list to interview is Jack Sh#t,..
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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Believing himself invincible, Trump does what ever the hell wants to do. Like the spoiled child he is, he doesn't like anybody telling him what to do, or even worse, telling him that he can't do something.
It doesn't always work out for him, though.
He grabbed the pussy, and the pussy fought back.
Stormy Daniels' attorney, Michael Avenatti is a master of making the media rounds. He has been hinting that at least eight other women have come to him with a Trumpian Tale of Pure Sordidness. For now, though, he is still vetting their stories, and is not quite ready to turn them loose upon the already-doomed Donald Trump.
Snowy Blowy and Floozy McDoozy are names that came to me in an Edgar Cayce-like sofa trance.
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dgbryan
Mountain climber
Hong Kong
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
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X Con says of partisans that there are two camps:
"One is the desperate children of a social formation which is on the verge of being wiped out. I'd call them the poor."
So if you wipe out the poor you've wiped out poverty, right? And that would be a good thing?
Anyway, this is quite entertaining at lunchtime in my cubicle. Please continue.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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The goal will be to get this to the Supreme Court where Trump has clear advantage.
That's what Nixon thought, and he lost 9-0
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 10, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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Would it fly in a Sharia court?
Who cares what flies in a Sharia court. I don't. Do you?
Yes I do, not because I agree with it (I don't), but because I believe it's useful to understand the the thought process of something like a billion people on the planet, when at least some non-trivial number of them are motivated by their beliefs to do some rather extreme things.
Sometimes other people's beliefs have consequences, even when we disagree with them.
Would someone whose parents were Jews have been able to escape Nazi Germany by pointing out that he or she didn't believe in the Jewish religion and didn't accept that the traditional definition of Jewishness?
Whoa Whoa Whoa!
That's a ridiculous as saying that looking at a Vatican Court decision gives you insight into a billion people.
your last example contradicts your proposition---that jewish decisions about who are jewish are the important and relevant decisions---Not to the Nazis, as you point out.
Obama did not live where Sharia Law was the law of the land, and he was never a citizen of any state that did.
What is missing from your small intellectual effort is the ruling from any court, Sharia or otherwise, that legally declares Obama a muslim.
So, you have no evidence to support your assertion.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
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One is the desperate children of a social formation which is on the verge of being wiped out.
That statement is more applicable to rich kids, than the poor.
Rich people can be extremely paranoid that they will lose their self-exalted status, and have to live like plebeians. This is especially true for inheritors of wealth, who would not be able to function as they would like outside of their current pampered existence. That loss-of-identity prospect is so frightening to them, a system of armed guards, gated communities and fortified residences are the norm, and not the exception these days.
What's missing is a sense of a coherent, total community in today's society. Increases in income disparity is accelerating that loss of a coherent community. A coherent, integral and connected society was what Made America Great. Chouinard and Frost could go from Ventura to the San Fernando Valley, and buy the best aerospace metals available, and then turn them into the best rock climbing equipment the world had ever seen.
BITD, the "rich guy" had the house on the block that had a swimming pool in the backyard. The other kids in the neighborhood used it, maybe because his lawn was mown. This was true even in places like Silicon Valley, where the founders of Intel, Sun and other money-machines lived a more simple existence, were members of the group, and had no intention of isolating themselves with a platoon of chain-guns to keep the rabble at bay.
Back then, a high maximum income tax rate compelled board directors to limit executive pay packages. Now, there is no limiting forces on executive pay, and a common wisdom in board rooms is that a particular person is so extraordinary that a $200 million pay package is not unreasonable.
That Board also votes for a $4 million security package for that guy, because the Man of the Moment is so flush with excessive cash, he is a juicy target for theft and kidnapping.
As Forrest Trump's mama used to say, "Crazy is, as crazy does".
EDITED for presentation, not content.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 11, 2018 - 07:01am PT
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If just one of the hundereds of shennanigans Trump and his circus troupe have performed were done by a Democrat , impeachment would already be a done deal...More proof that the moral minority republican propaganda machine is running the country...Who cares if Trump leaves now...The tax cuts were made...Game over...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 11, 2018 - 07:16am PT
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In the news this morning: Paul Ryan not going up for re-election.
Why would so many life-ling pols decide this is the year to stop, if things are going so right?
Methinks it's kind of like the stock market. It's a risky ride, and stressful, but the key concept is that one must get out before it crashes and they lose everything.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 11, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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One of the most consistent characteristics of Republicans is their continual theft of musical compositions as the theme music for their campaigns. Being unpopular themselves, they attempt a popularity-by-proxy gambit by ripping off popular songs from people who absolutely hate their stinking guts.
When Reagan started using Born in the USA as his theme music in 1984 I was flabbergasted. Didn't anybody in the campaign listen to the lyrics?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 11, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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Are we even sure that Syria gassed it's people? NO
It could have been like the last one, a bomb from ISIS or some one blew up a chlorine tank by accident, and Trump bombed the airstrip in retaliation
or it could have been Turkey, which some experts think
or Israel, or ISIS
or it never happened
those possibilities don't matter to warmonger Trump, he must strike...
scary times
thanks Republican voters
and in the end, every thing Trump and the Republicans accused Hillary of, they/Trump and doing a thousand fold.
New revelations of Trump's foundation receiving Russian money!!
Goldman Sachs, dependent on donors, not independent
Selling Uranium
Lying, corrupt, colluding with the Russian's!!!
Everything he says about others are projections of his inner demons
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 11, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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Whoa Whoa Whoa!
That's a ridiculous as saying that looking at a Vatican Court decision gives you insight into a billion people.
your last example contradicts your proposition---that jewish decisions about who are jewish are the important and relevant decisions---Not to the Nazis, as you point out.
Obama did not live where Sharia Law was the law of the land, and he was never a citizen of any state that did.**
What is missing from your small intellectual effort is the ruling from any court, Sharia or otherwise, that legally declares Obama a muslim.**
So, you have no evidence to support your assertion.
Well if a Sharia court catches Obama, there's a good chance it will get him apostasy, for which the punishment is death!
I saw something about Michelle being deathly afraid to go to hardcore muslim countries because of that--not sure how true it is.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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WWIII any day now because of st00pid Americans in DC.
Americans in DC the dumbest idiots on the planet.
The brainwashed American public too ......
The American people are responsible.
If they had a real brain we would have a very nice peaceful planet.
Instead now nothing but dystopia .......
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 11, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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In the news this morning: Paul Ryan not going up for re-election.
So I see four reasons why.
1. Ryan knows he would lose his next election
2. He is going to run for president.
3. He doesn't want to be a part of the impeachment process.
4. Doesn't want to be the last one to jump off a sinking ship.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 11, 2018 - 08:17am PT
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WWIII any day now because of st00pid Americans in DC.
Americans in DC the dumbest idiots on the planet.
The brainwashed American public too ......
The American people are responsible.
If they had a real brain we would have a very nice peaceful planet.
Instead now nothing but dystopia .......
The American white trash are responsible.
fixed it for you.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 11, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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I saw something about Michelle being deathly afraid to go to hardcore muslim countries because of that--not sure how true it is.
That's absolutely true, she never set foot into any hardcore Muslim nation. And if she ever would, you bet she'd be wearing a head scarf out of fear.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 11, 2018 - 08:45am PT
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So Paul Ryan, the “Serious, sober-minded policy wonk,” who championed a regressive tax cut that will balloon the deficit to a trillion dollars annually, while ebabling trump’s worst excesses, decided to quit.
Good f*#king riddance to that spineless puke.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 11, 2018 - 09:48am PT
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WaPost
Trump says veterans wait too long for health care. VA’s 33,000 vacancies might have something to do with that.
You wonder if the vets who voted for Trump, on the understanding that he would start dismantling the pillars of the US Gov't, realized that the VA was one of those pillars, and that it is his goal to dismantle it?
This particular area highlights one of the real contradictions in Republican theology: Love of the military (note: Veterans are NOT the military, no matter what they think) vs hate of expenditure of tax dollars. (they don't hate to spend borrowed money, just tax money).
In this area, the contradiction becomes reconciled by giving more money to the military, and lip service to veterans, but actually interfering with veterans benefits. Nominating a man not competent to run the VA, to do exactly that, is an excellent example.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 11, 2018 - 10:53am PT
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NY Times EDITORIAL
The Law Is Coming, Mr. Trump
By The Editorial Board
The editorial board represents the opinions of the board, its editor and the publisher. It is separate from the newsroom and the Op-Ed section.
April 10, 2018
Why don’t we take a step back and contemplate what Americans, and the world, are witnessing?
Early Monday morning, F.B.I. agents raided the New York office, home and hotel room of the personal lawyer for the president of the United States. They seized evidence of possible federal crimes — including bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign finance violations related to payoffs made to women, including a porn actress, who say they had affairs with the president before he took office and were paid off and intimidated into silence.
That evening the president surrounded himself with the top American military officials and launched unbidden into a tirade against the top American law enforcement officials — officials of his own government — accusing them of “an attack on our country.”
Oh, also: The Times reported Monday evening that investigators were examining a $150,000 donation to the president’s personal foundation from a Ukrainian steel magnate, given during the American presidential campaign in exchange for a 20-minute video appearance.
Meanwhile, the president’s former campaign chairman is under indictment, and his former national security adviser has pleaded guilty to lying to investigators. His son-in-law and other associates are also under investigation.
This is your president, ladies and gentlemen. This is how Donald Trump does business, and these are the kinds of people he surrounds himself with.
Mr. Trump has spent his career in the company of developers and celebrities, and also of grifters, cons, sharks, goons and crooks. He cuts corners, he lies, he cheats, he brags about it, and for the most part, he’s gotten away with it, protected by threats of litigation, hush money and his own bravado. Those methods may be proving to have their limits when they are applied from the Oval Office. Though Republican leaders in Congress still keep a cowardly silence, Mr. Trump now has real reason to be afraid. A raid on a lawyer’s office doesn’t happen every day; it means that multiple government officials, and a federal judge, had reason to believe they’d find evidence of a crime there and that they didn’t trust the lawyer not to destroy that evidence.
On Monday, when he appeared with his national security team, Mr. Trump, whose motto could be, “The buck stops anywhere but here,” angrily blamed everyone he could think of for the “unfairness” of an investigation that has already consumed the first year of his presidency, yet is only now starting to heat up. He said Attorney General Jeff Sessions made “a very terrible mistake” by recusing himself from overseeing the investigation — the implication being that a more loyal attorney general would have obstructed justice and blocked the investigation. He complained about the “horrible things” that Hillary Clinton did “and all of the crimes that were committed.” He called the A-team of investigators from the office of the special counsel, Robert Mueller, “the most biased group of people.” As for Mr. Mueller himself, “we’ll see what happens,” Mr. Trump said. “Many people have said, ‘You should fire him.’”
In fact, the raids on the premises used by Mr. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, were conducted by the public corruption unit of the federal attorney’s office in Manhattan, and at the request not of the special counsel’s team, but under a search warrant that investigators in New York obtained following a referral by Mr. Mueller, who first consulted with the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein. To sum up, a Republican-appointed former F.B.I. director consulted with a Republican-appointed deputy attorney general, who then authorized a referral to an F.B.I. field office not known for its anti-Trump bias. Deep state, indeed.
Mr. Trump also railed against the authorities who, he said, “broke into” Mr. Cohen’s office. “Attorney-client privilege is dead!” the president tweeted early Tuesday morning, during what was presumably his executive time. He was wrong. The privilege is one of the most sacrosanct in the American legal system, but it does not protect communications in furtherance of a crime. Anyway, one might ask, if this is all a big witch hunt and Mr. Trump has nothing illegal or untoward to hide, why does he care about the privilege in the first place?
The answer, of course, is that he has a lot to hide.
This wasn’t even the first early-morning raid of a close Trump associate. That distinction goes to Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s former campaign chairman and Russian oligarch-whisperer, who now faces a slate of federal charges long enough to land him in prison for the rest of his life. And what of Mr. Cohen? He’s already been cut loose by his law firm, and when the charges start rolling in, he’ll likely get the same treatment from Mr. Trump.
Among the grotesqueries that faded into the background of Mr. Trump’s carnival of misgovernment during the past 24 hours was that Monday’s meeting was ostensibly called to discuss a matter of global significance: a reported chemical weapons attack on Syrian civilians. Mr. Trump instead made it about him, with his narcissistic and self-pitying claim that the investigation represented an attack on the country “in a true sense.”
No, Mr. Trump — a true attack on America is what happened on, say, Sept. 11, 2001. Remember that one? Thousands of people lost their lives. Your response was to point out that the fall of the twin towers meant your building was now the tallest in downtown Manhattan. Of course, that also wasn’t true.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 11, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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It's not the crime (lack of erection) it's the cover up...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 11, 2018 - 11:50am PT
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At least we'll surprise those Russkies with our Syrian missile attack. Oh wait, sorry, forgot about twitter.
Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 11, 2018
What a genius this guy is.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 11, 2018 - 11:55am PT
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“ why would so many life-ling pols decide this is the year to quit, if things are going so right? Methinks it’s kind of like the stock market. It’s a risky ride, and stressful, but the key concept is that one must get out before it crashes and they lose everything.”
I guess that makes Paul Ryan one of the smart ones.
And if in the risky ride, the stock market going up is an example of things going “right”, well then yea me! Try it, and see which side of our mouths it tastes bad in.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Apr 11, 2018 - 01:09pm PT
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When the leader of the Republican majority in Congress, doesn't even want to be politically associated with the President of his own party ... and that is what Ryan's retirement decision means ... it's the "Querencia" for Don Trump.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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At least we'll surprise those Russkies with our Syrian missile attack.
Well, that would make for be an interesting test of the upgraded radars on the S-400 air defense systems currently deployed in Syria.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 11, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
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Right, it’s not like I won the presidency of the United States by running a campaign in which I called that guy disloyal and a weak and ineffective leader two years ago.
Oh wait, I did do that. Try not to notice. It tastes pretty bad to say it out loud.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 11, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
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you may be right BJ
but the press is reporting that Donald had Stormy call a "girlfriend" to ask her to come over for a three way
and she declined
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
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USS Donald Cook brings Tomahawk missiles next to Russian base in Syria's Tartus
7 hours ago: Satellite photos of Russian naval base in Tartus, Syria show all 11 Russian naval warships have left Syria. Perhaps to avoid being sitting ducks as rhetoric between Trump and Russia escalates.
A shooting war with the Russians in the Mediterranean - what could possibly go wrong?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Apr 11, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Was this posted yet?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-legacy-trump_us_5ace4180e4b0648767761deb?o8
In many ways, that should be how Ryan is remembered: Confidently claiming that what he’s doing, or the things Republicans have accomplished, are major feats, that he’s a serious policy thinker even when his actions are nakedly political, and that he’s being honest and forthright when he’s being anything but.
Lyin Ryan. How many 14ers?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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About half of the GOP dolts who ran for President in 2016 claim to admire Ayn Rand, whose work Gore Vidal said was "almost perfect in its immorality".
The common dementhesis in Rand's novels is that we would all be better off in a law-of-the-jungle world. The strong would prevail, and the weak would die, leaving even more for the strong. She viewed the human race the way a scientist would view bacteria in a petri dish. She was BSC, and if alive would fit right in with Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity and the rest of the Fox News idiots.
I believe Trump also admires Rand. He certainly behaves as if he's one of the characters in her books, with little or no regard for the welfare of others outside his immediate family. He even screws his friends to get ahead. Trump is going to screw Michael Cohen in an attempt to save his own ass. It won't work.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 12, 2018 - 10:57am PT
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Call me stupid, I do when I look in the mirror, but okay outside of Bachelor of Science, what does BSC mean? I looked it up, such as at internet slang.com, and could not find what it means.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 12, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
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Thanks, Treez, I should have figured that out.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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If there is a plan for Syria, even a vague one that is semi-cogent, I’d love to hear it.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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Trump's plan for Syria is to reflexively respond to whatever immediate stimulus his cerebral ganglion receives.
A) Trump will Have his VA doctor guy tap his patellar tendon with a small rubber mallet.
B) If his leg jerks forward, Trump will tweet-storm a bunch of bellicose nonsense that contradicts whatever he tweeted the day before.
C) If his leg doesn't jerk forward, he'll tweet-storm a bunch of pacifist nonsense that contradicts whatever he tweeted the day before.
D) When asked about evidence about who gassed whom in Syria, Trump will respond, NO COLLUSION.
E) When asked about his threat to send missiles into Syria, Trump will respond, NO COLLUSION.
F) When asked if he still intends to pull U.S. troops out of Syria, Trump will respond, NO COLLUSION.
Trump is rapidly becoming paralyzed from the neck up. The fury and the foam are taking over, and he can't think of anything except how to plan his evasion from the rapidly-approaching reality of the Mueller investigation.
At this point, Trump is looking under sofas and rugs in the Oval Office, trying to find an escape hatch that Steve Bannon told him was installed by Richard Nixon.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
I see your point. But, Atlas Shrugged is almost as long as War and Peace and is complex, and self-contradictory. For example, Ayn Rand presents John Galt as the quintessential ubermensch, but he's a dishwashing wastrel who squanders his skills and abilities out of spite.
The part that the GOP seems to have found most useful for their own agenda, is the idea that a society shouldn't compel winners to share with losers. That Darwinian viewpoint ignores the fact that some "losers" have mental issues, or other reasons for not being "winners".
The Ayn Rand order of things would have a master hunter of a primitive tribe bringing back a huge dead animal, and then jealously guarding it in his hut, and not sharing it with the rest of the group. Even when it begins to rot and decay, he refuses to be a "communist" by sharing. He would rather have it go to waste, on his own terms, than share.
Ayn Rand would have cheered George Hearst when he flooded a productive gold mine, rather than allow his workers to unionize. And she would have cheered the German navy for scuttling their captured fleet in Scapa Flow, rather than abide by the terms of the Treaty of Versailles.
Ayn Rand's protagonists are primarily sociopaths. The dominant males in at least two of her books are depicted as "honorable" rapists. Ayn Rand was BSC.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Apr 12, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
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About half of the GOP dolts who ran for President in 2016 claim to admire Ayn Rand, whose work Gore Vidal said was "almost perfect in its immorality".
Tom, I have always thought the Republicans hijacked a very simple idea in Rand's books and turned them into something they aren't. Couldn't Progressives also have hijacked Rand? The Republicans are so status quo but Atlas Shrugged is actually progressive, like in promoting Reardon Steel as opposed to establishment status quo products. What the republicans want to do with the environment and halting progress toward cleaner energy sources in very anti Atlas Shrugged - it is promoting the old boy network Rand was staunchly against.
It could also be said ( possibly ) that the republicans of that era may have been different than the slime republicans of today.
Oh, and Tom, I'm really afraid Trump is so dirty they may be able to get him to do whatever 'they' want. But, you know, They are quite capable of doing what they want, with or without that Freak.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Tom, I read Atlas in my early 20s and found it inspiring. I did not see much of the selfishness you ascribe, but a selfishness that compels a person to follow their heart and not let the status quo hold them back. I think it is the republicans that have colored the book with Communism. I recall that she had more of a disdain for bureaucracies in general, rather than Communism per se.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
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Tom, with respect to trump’s thoughts on Syria, I think you summed it up nicely.
In fairness, there really isn’t a good plan to be had. But nonetheless, what is he going to do? He’s all over the place. Shooting a few missiles in response to a chemical attack, which seems possible, would result in good feedback on Fox and Friends, but would accomplish nothing. (Did it accomplish anything last time?)
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Apr 12, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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I don't think Trump wants to attack Syria. THEY do. It was clear he didn't want or like THEM on day one. In a way he's proving what a joke the modern presidency is. The exception is Cheney of course. Now that guy was president!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Tom, I read Atlas in my early 20s and found it inspiring. I did not see much of the selfishness you ascribe, but a selfishness that compels a person to follow their heart and not let the status quo hold them back. THAT idea can be stolen by anyone. I think it is the republicans that have colored the book with Communism. I recall that she had more of a disdain for bureaucracies in general, rather than Communism per se.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2018 - 02:28pm PT
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Ayn Rand was an anti-bureaucracy, anti-government anarchist. Her idea was that anybody should do whatever they want, and an individual's internal morality mechanism was superior to any set of laws, regulations, taxes or other interference in a person's hedonistic pursuit of happiness (notice the climbing reference there).
Alan Greenspan was a die-hard believer in Ayn Rand's BSC social dementheses. He championed the "magic hand of the free market" and was vehemently opposed to any type of regulation of the derivatives markets during the early 2000s.
We know how that one turned out, in reality, as opposed to within an alternative, delusional pseudo-reality based on false theses.
Deregulated free enterprise is great, for those who benefit from it. The rest of society suffers, whether from predatory banking fees, a polluted environment, or insider-trading stock fraud schemes.
Deregulation = lawlessness
People who are addicted to money can't be trusted to regulate themselves, any more than methamphetamine addicts can be trusted to regulate themselves.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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One of Trump's first actions as President was to remove America from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which he excoriated as being a "terrible deal" for the U.S. At the time, it was widely reported that leaving the TPP would allow China to gain economic power at the expense of the U.S.
Now Trump wants to enter into a trade agreement with other nations, in an effort to counter China's moves to increase their economic power at the expense of the U.S.
It's called the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Apparently, the VA doctor guy poked the bottom of Trump's foot with the point of his pen, and the President had a knee-jerk reaction.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/us/politics/trump-trans-pacific-partnership.html
Trump is engaging in extemporaneous improvisational governance. He is like a jazz musician feeling his way through a freeform composition, trying this, then that, then something else entirely different, ignoring the usual rules in search of a higher state of creative expression.
The problem with that jazzy leadership style is that Trump can't play for sh#t.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 12, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
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Rand had a very low opinion of leeches
The leeches run this country.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 12, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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So maybe that Obama guy was not so stupid
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Apr 12, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
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I heard this morning that Cohen intends to take the 5th Amendment. Does that mean that each time the DOJ and the FBI asks Cohen about an item they have uncovered in his office, he'll take the 5th in response? That really wouldn't look good unless his intention to take the 5th is merely preparation for a plea bargaining agreement between Cohen and the DOJ?
Awaiting further developments.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
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What if he is asked about hush money payments to Bill Cosby?
We’ve learned moments ago, within the last two hours, that Michael Cohen will be filing a motion tomorrow in our case, an emergency motion, to stay — or temporarily stop — our case,” Avenatti said. “And the grounds for that motion are going to be that it is his intention to plead the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination if our case goes forward, in light of potential criminal jeopardy that he finds himself in.”
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 04:49pm PT
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Don't gotta show you no stinkin' missiles
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 12, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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Israel’s “Safe Zone” Is Creeping Farther Into Syria
A safe zone is all fine and dandy, but did anyone bother to set up a safe word?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2018 - 05:12pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Trump will get as much serenity by yelling, "COVFEFE" as Seinfeld's father did by yelling, "SERENITY NOW!"
Cohen's gambit, in moving to stay the civil Stormy Daniels case, is to avoid a jury from equating his Fifth Amendment silence with guilt. In a criminal case, the jury can't do that. But, in a civil case the burden of proof is lower, and a lawyer who lawyers up would be looking pretty shady.
Cohen is just delaying the Stormy Daniels case. He was the one who wanted it heard in the first place. Then, he looked at his cards again, and realized that two jokers don't add up to jack squat in the current game.
The two jokers are Trump and Cohen.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2018 - 05:14pm PT
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Jim Brennen1 Per your request: Does anybody know anyone who read an Ayn Rand book after 9th grade high school was over ?
Yes, but I was a bachelor, a fast reader, & I enjoyed reading.
Post college, when I was in my early 20's & running a retail outdoor store, I read The Fountainhead & Atlas Shrugged. I remember nearly nothing, so they must not have made much of an impression.
But then again, at about the same time, I read 4 or 5 F. Scott Fitzgerald books. Likewise, I remember very little, except how rich & decadent his characters were.
I usually keep books I enjoy, but I retained zero by both authors.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
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Left to their own devices, there’s no way those human orangutans are going to develop a civilized society, or elect me. So say I, partisan sage of the ages.
But the orangutans and civilized society said differently. Try not to notice.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Apr 12, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
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I remember nearly nothing, so they must not have made much of an impression.
But then again, at about the same time, I read 4 or 5 F. Scott Fitzgerald books. Likewise, I remember very little
That's what fast reading will do for you - LOL.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 06:45pm PT
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Libby was convicted in 2007 of lying to the FBI and obstruction of justice in the investigation into the leak of the identity of Valerie Plame, a former covert CIA operative. Then-President George Bush commuted Libby's 30-month sentence, sparing him prison time, but didn't pardon him.
After Libby claimed that he couldn't have been the source of the leak, multiple people came forward to testify that they learned of Plame's identity from Libby prior to when Libby said he had first received the information.
Pardon me.
Why did you fart?
Why yes I did.
The National Inquirer, Fox News?, Trump
The bad, the worse, the hideously ugly
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
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From the NY Times article on FLoppy Don's reversal on the TPP agreement:
The Trump administration says it has ordered the Agriculture Department to create a program to help farmers hurt by (Trump's) trade (war with China). Trade advisers say the department could use a program known as the Commodity Credit Corporation to purchase potentially billions of dollars of crops from American farmers harmed by tariffs.
The GOP is now officially the FOSP.
The FOSP wants to cut social security and medicare, because they say those entitlements are what Made America Weak. But, the FOSP is anxious to hand their farmland voter base billions in welfare payments.
It has come to the point where anything that comes from the FOSP must be passed through a transfer function to obtain an intelligible, accurate signal.
Input [-1] = Output
In other words, any statement from the FOSP must be reversed or inverted in order to obtain a statement that corresponds to reality.
Yes ===> No
Will ===> Won't
Do ===> Don't
Family Values ===> Stormy Daniels
Middle Class Tax Cut ===> Middle Class Tax Hike
Law and Order ===> Stop the Investigation
Fiscal Restraint ===> Immense Deficit
No More Welfare ===> Billions for Insiders
No collusion ===> Putin's Puto
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Those doublespeak examples look more like euphemisms to me.
"Fox News" is a euphemism for biased partisan propaganda.
"Fair and Balanced Reporting" is doublespeak for biased partisan propaganda.
I guess some euphemisms are considered a type of doublespeak.
Here's an award that Trump won in 2016. It's not shown if he won't it three years in a row, but he should have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak_Award
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 12, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Intersting point made in the NYT review of Comey's book and something that I have noticed; Trump has no sense of humor.
And Comey explained how he interpreted the fact he never saw Trump laugh came from his “deep insecurity, his inability to be vulnerable or to risk himself by appreciating the humor of others, which, on reflection, is really very sad in a leader, and a little scary in a president.” A measure of our acceptance of who we are is our ability to laugh at ourselves. If Trump could watch Colbert and laugh at himself I'd respect him a lot more but it won't happen. Another observation I've had is that Republicans never seem to make good comedians; what's with that? I laugh at myself all the time for the stupid things I sometimes do (so I guess I can't actually laugh at myself all the time, if you catch my drift). Still, humor is an understanding and acceptance that we are all frangible and human.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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I realize today that nothing in the world is more distasteful to a man than to take the path that leads to himself.
The right-wing rabble-rouser Ann Coulter recently declared at a talk at Columbia University that the President was a "shallow, lazy ignoramus" and that she's now a former Trumper. "If he doesn't have us anymore, that's what he should be worried about," Coulter later told The New York Times. "He's not giving us what he promised at every campaign stop."
Washington (CNN)US law enforcement officials announced a $20 million reward Thursday for the newest member of the FBI's Top Ten Most Wanted Fugitive list, Mexican drug lord Rafael Caro Quintero.
Caro Quintero, a senior leader in the Sinaloa cartel, was charged with conspiring to murder Drug Enforcement Administration agent Enrique Camarena Salazar in 1985 as part of a continuing criminal enterprise in a federal indictment unsealed Thursday in Brooklyn.
Cohen spoke with him on the phone. El Trumpo and Cohenhead were going to turn him in and split the 20 million. Then Trumpo would pardon him and Quintero would make a 10 million contribution to the 2020 campaign to give ...
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Apr 12, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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I know this thread is about the end of Trump but it is very likely he can be remolded and made into a bright and shiny (thing), a person that too many will give undeserved respect to. I think our system is capable of making this happen. Rather than the Querencia Phase it will be the Gentrification Phase of Trump.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Apr 12, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
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I know, it sounds hideous, but just wait!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 12, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
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President Dennison is just doing his job. It's the same job Reagan and George W. had, just taken to a new level.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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Trump reformation.
Not likely.
Trump has read too much about how manipulable he is.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
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Trump is a shape-shifter. He reads his audience, and transmogrifies into what they want him to be.
It is entirely possible that Trump will have a moment of clarity, and recognize that his Floppy Don The Bully Boy act isn't going over as well as it did when he was in the fourth grade.
But, I think it's too late, even for that.
Michael Cohen's entire existence would not have been raided by the FBI wielding a no-knock warrant, unless there was more to find out than who pays Trump's Mustang Ranch bills.
Trump went crazy when Cohen was raided. When his other friends have gotten into trouble, he has remained calm. This time, the net came just a bit too close to his lair, and he came aggressively out of his hole, jaws snapping.
An innocent person doesn't behave that way.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
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Golden Showers!!!
Yep ... you st00pid politards love people pissing all over you ......
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 12, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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It may take as little as less than ten minutes within a single thunderstorm, or longer than a million years - but lightning will eventually strike the same spot again and again. A strike to any location does nothing to change the electrical activity in the storm above, which will produce another strike as soon as it 'recharges'. The previously hit location is then just as fair game for the next discharge as any other spot.
However
More than 100 people have now been slaughtered in Cancun since the beginning of 2018, as Mexico’s cartels continue to spread fear throughout the country.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2018 - 09:12pm PT
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PUD! DUUEEDE!
I'm so happy for you finding that cartoon of a libtard brain, copying it, & then managing to post it here!
That certainly proves that not all conservatives are dumb as dirt!
Proud!
You should be proud tonight!
Here! This is for you!
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
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PuD! Hey! Great photo-manip, & of course calling a liberal a queer, is a time honored ploy for conservatives, who need to strike out.
Gud verk!
Heidi & I have our 30th wedding aniversary in August.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
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OH Darn! did Pud just delete his last two snarky posts on this thread, or was he
Dissapeared??
No loss.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 13, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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Who's going to bring up Trump's love child with his maid?
Too many headlines going on at once...
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 13, 2018 - 08:43am PT
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If only liberal baiting was policy. Sigh. That is all the far right has these days. That and a kinky man-baby to lead them.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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In late 2015, AMI, parent company of the National Enquirer, allegedly paid a Trump World Tower doorman $30,000 over a rumor from the late 1980s that Trump fathered a child with a housekeeper. AMI is denying the payment was ever made. The doorman says he can now talk about the rumor, but can't talk about the payoff.
In other words, the doorman's rumor is no longer relevant, because Trump won the election. But, the payment may be highly relevant, because if it was made, people could go to prison.
The National Enquirer says it didn't publish the spawn-of-Trump story because they didn't think it was credible, and they only print the truth.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Hiding your secret son for three decades is COVFEFE.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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Sally Yates says that I’ll lose my moral authority to lead the country if I don’t do an interview with Mueller.
Me? Moral authority? You think I’m up here and you’re down there because of moral authority? Pay attention Sally.
In strikingly similar news, my HHS political appointee is saying that our forefathers would have strung up Obama for treason.
What? My great great fantastic incredible great grandpappy John Alden who came over on the Mayflower and who I’m so proud to be descended from?
Yea, she’s probably right. That’s what moral authority will do for you.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
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Traitors are not pardonable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning
"Manning was charged with 22 offenses, including aiding the enemy, which was the most serious charge and could have resulted in a death sentence."
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 13, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
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scooter libby never served a day of jail time (unlike manning 7 years).
The reason trumpy is acting now:
quote from Adam Schiff
✔
@RepAdamSchiff
On the day the President wrongly attacks Comey for being a “leaker and liar” he considers pardoning a convicted leaker and liar, Scooter Libby. This is the President’s way of sending a message to those implicated in the Russia investigation: You have my back and I‘ll have yours.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 04:03pm PT
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I most certainly do, but the comparison stands.
Tut, not sure why you always go right to the insults.
In any event, there is some real doubt about Mr. Libby's guilt or innocence. Manning, not so much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby
"On August 28, 2006, Christopher Hitchens asserted that Richard Armitage was the primary source of the Valerie Plame leak and that Fitzgerald knew this at the beginning of his investigation.[132] This was supported a month later by Armitage himself, who stated that Fitzgerald had instructed him not to go public with this information.[133] Investor's Business Daily questioned Fitzgerald's truthfulness in an editorial, stating "From top to bottom, this has been one of the most disgraceful abuses of prosecutorial power in this country's history...The Plame case proves [Fitzgerald] can bend the truth with the proficiency of the slickest of pols."[134]
In a September 2008 Wall Street Journal editorial, attorney Alan Dershowitz cited the "questionable investigation[s]" of Scooter Libby as evidence of the problems brought to the criminal justice process by "politically appointed and partisan attorney[s] general".[135] In April 2015, also writing in The Wall Street Journal, Hoover Institution fellow Peter Berkowitz argued that statements by Judith Miller, in her recently published memoir, raised anew contentions that her testimony was inaccurate and that Fitzgerald's conduct as prosecutor was inappropriate."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 13, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
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Manning was charged with...
If you knew anything about computers, IT infrastructure, and security then you'd realize the folks who should be in jail aren't Snowden and Manning, but the architects and operators of the NSA's and DoD data centers, networks and security. They built out so fast they decided they could simply forego even the most basic security designs and policies within their facilities.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 04:06pm PT
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No doubt about it.
But with regard to Snowden, I believe it is possible to be both a hero and a traitor at the same time. He seemed to hold a sincere desire to warn us. Manning, on the other hand, seemed to hold a particular malice. If you can define the line between order and chaos, well...
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
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You are a POS example of a human being
Wow, really?
In another thread you claim to be a doctor. If this is true, I certainly hope your political biases don't affect the decisions you make about caring for other human beings.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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The more we learn, the higher up we place the blame. In my kid’s school, they use a trauma informed care model.
Still though, seems like we all like to stop and place the blame on some other human, somewhere along the chain of command. I think we’re probably not so different - we just like to blame different other people.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
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Posted 5 minutes ago on Twitter:
Kaitlan Collins
Verified account @kaitlancollins
Press pool in Lima with Vice President Pence is rushing back to the hotel unexpectedly. White House is telling the press pool that’s here in Washington to gather.
Something's up.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
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The more we learn, the higher up we place the blame. In my kid’s school, they use a trauma informed care model.
Still though, seems like we all like to stop and place the blame on some other human, somewhere along the chain of command. I think we’re probably not so different - we just like to blame different other people.
Your eloquence and humanism just outed you as NOT being Trump. You're like the doofus in The Great Escape who says, "Thank You" when the Gestapo checking his papers hands them back, and says, "Good Luck".
If you're pretending to be a German, you don't say, "Thank You", or order another round by holding up three fingers; you hold up two fingers and a thumb.
If you're pretending to be Trump, you don't demonstrate a post-fifth grade level of English comprehension, or exhibit empathy for other people, even if they're your wives, mistresses, children or indicted co-conspirators.
The Third Rule of CIA-style is don't get caught doing it CIA-style. A corollary of the Third Law is be competent when doing it CIA-style.
Go back to FSB school, foo'.
I saw that one.
Trump certainly knows how to bring the country together: gets into his Hot Tub Time Machine with a couple of naked floozies, and zooms us all back to 1952.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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Maybe.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:21pm PT
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Earlier in the day Trump heard the talking heads on FOX discussing how attacking Syria would take the pressure off from Comey's book.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
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You have my back and I‘ll have yours.
Nah, Trump's not the kind of guy to return favors; he's only in it for himself. He'll f*#k you over in a New York minute if it helps him.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:26pm PT
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I'd enjoy the ST political threads more without the name calling.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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So you geniuses think Macron, May, and Merkel are out to lunch for signing onto this?
Y’all think Billy Clinton was remiss for socking it to the Serbs? Y’all got Neville Chamberlain
posters in yer sh!tters, too? Ya think the Holocaust was faked?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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Compare the responses from April, 2017 and April, 2018.
Consider the timing.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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Earlier in the day Trump heard the talking heads on FOX discussing how attacking Syria would take the pressure off from Comey's book.
It's a shame Trump wasn't tuned into his other favorite channel, where he saw "Tinka", an underage Ivanka-clone, speaking in a fake Russian accent on a Disney dancing show.
Caroline "Tinka" Sunshine is now a White House Communications Officer.
White House sci-fi geeks have nicknamed her "A New Hope".
Dora the Explorer only causes him to tweet-rant about sending the "National Army" to stop Dora and her caravan of invaders.
Consider the timing.
Friday the 13th - - - - Trump confuses himself with with Jason Voorhees?
Maybe Trump was watching a Da Vinci Code movie on TV about the Knights Templar hiding all their gold in Syria, and then getting wiped out on Friday the 13th. Maybe Trump wants to be first in line to go get the Templar Gold. It is widely known that Trump is a degenerate auroholic.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 13, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
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Bobby ( the rapist ) Peru gonna make Tinka jump back like a bunny rabbit...Ol Booby gonna rob a bank later and get his face blown clean off....
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 13, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
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I was disappointed that Trump called this necessary for national security. That is BS, he is playing to his base again. Why can't he call it the moral thing to do.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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I guess this means Putin will finally be releasing that hotel hooker video you all have been claiming he has??
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
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Why can't he call it the moral thing to do.
Because Trump's voter base and the GOP are immoral.
Unless they have a tangible vested interest in something, they aren't interested. In fact, if they don't personally benefit, they automatically oppose it. Their Ayn Rand brainwashing prevents them from understanding empathy and assistance for others.
Here's how Floppy Don caught the attention of his stupified campaign crowd when talking about the Middle East:
I am going to go in there, and I am going to take the oil.
At no time did Mr. Floppin' Hydraulics say that he would use his Art Of The Deal to bring peaceful coexistence to the region.
EDIT:
Putin's puto is in the doghouse. Trump is damaged goods. His lawyer is all over the TV, looking forlorn and despondent. The investigation is right at the White House front steps. Floppy Don has failed to properly contain the Mueller investigation, FSB-style, and Putin is cutting him loose, to tilt in the wind. Putin's final act isn't going to be getting sucked into the toila-swirl vortex that's taking Trump down.
Putin is having his spokesmen ridicule Trump's "Twitter Diplomacy", and the Russian ambassador is calling Trump "Hitler Number Two".
Trump and Putin's transactional bromance is over. Floppy Don has failed to keep his end of the bargain. Hell hath no fury like a dictator scorned.
Putin might hack into HBO, to broadcast Messy Moscow MILFs during prime time.
EDIT EDIT
America is not taking Putin's aggression lying down.
Heinz has announced that from now on, Russian salad dressing will be sold in a bottle labeled Mayochup.
Try some on your Freedom Fries the next time you're in 2003.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 07:42pm PT
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Because Trump's voter base and the GOP are immoral.
No doubt Obama(D) and his SOS(D) left a lasting impression on the people of Syria.
That said, this attack seems like a bad idea based on limited intel. Hopefully it doesn't turn out as badly as Clinton's Belgrade subway debacle.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 13, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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A limited (one day?)
missile attack on Russian chemwar (DOD lingo) facilities?
These heathens must be put in their place and hopefully the peepee (trump lingo) tape will come out in the acid wash
"This renders it beyond any possible doubt that the source of the nerve agent, named as a member of the Novichok family by the United Kingdom, is Russia.”
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 13, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just noticed the date on the Tweet.
At first, I thought you had created a sarcastic message about Trump's lack of self-awareness and impulse control.
But, Trump is auto-sarcastic. He doesn't need any help in that department.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 13, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
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So you geniuses think Macron, May, and Merkel are out to lunch for signing onto this? Merkel didn't sign onto it.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Apr 13, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
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So you geniuses think Macron, May, and Merkel are out to lunch for signing onto this?
wouldn't say it takes a genius to be aware that just because the leadership of the u.s., u.k. and france agree on something doesn't necessarily mean that it is either based on truthful information or grounded in the best long term strategy for increased security in the "west"... rather it just takes someone who has paid attention to the long term results and truthfulness, to points in the last twenty years, when western "agreement" did occur... and was subsequently shown through time to be at minimum inept and in at least a few cases horrifyingly "evil".
Y’all think Billy Clinton was remiss for socking it to the Serbs?
can't speak for "y'all"... but along the same lines: to think simplistically that billy was driven only by humanitarian intents and that regional strategic interests or even domestic distraction motivations didn't/couldn't play at least a partial role, is to miss the trajectory of the post world war two u.s. leadership's track record for being interested in humanitarian policing.
because yeah, i'm sure it's all just a coincidence that when there are significant atrocities happening in "out of the way" places [ex: rwanda], or in "strong" nations [a more historical ex: the chinese treatment of the tibetans] that nothing happens, but when it's in a historically strategic location within eurasia and involves "weak" nations, that action is/was taken. /s
Y’all got Neville Chamberlain posters in yer sh!tters, too?
had to look up who that was... so no. but thanks for the impetus for a short history lesson.
Ya think the Holocaust was faked?
hahaha... now we're getting to the highest quality of analysis... so in this line of analogous thinking who is the new hitler: assad? putin? trump? macron maybe?
those in the citizenry led down the garden path to war are able to go willingly [much of the time] because they assume the world is simple and so either their guy or the other guy is telling the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help their god(s).
but here's the stress test: when leadership isn't willing to send their own sons and daughters to the front, but is rather sending the hillbillies, the immigrants, and other folks looking for purpose/education/a basic living... then one should at minimum keep an open mind as to what the true and likely multiples of actual motivations there are behind the leadership's drive for war... regardless of the simplistic narratives that the "free press" obediently rams down everyone's throats.
and so far, from that perspective i have zero expectation that any close relative of trumperino, or may, or even the "hitler-like" [ha!] macron, will be dropped into syria anytime soon.
no, not even trump's favorite elephant hunters.
but i get it: tomahawk missiles certainly are sexually arousing to many.
[and one correction to the description under JC Marin's dumpster fire photo... it should have read something along the lines of "the u.s. foreign policy under both the democrat and republican leaderships for at least the last twenty years"]
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 13, 2018 - 10:14pm PT
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Yep!
If there are not some Russian & American "over-reactions" to this political exercise, which would unfortunately start WWIII,
Life will go on & Assad will still rule Syria, Putin will be his backer.
Hey! Trump announced last week that we were pulling our troops out of Syria, without bothering to tell his Pentagon folks about it.
And of course tonight, while Trump announced an ongoing campaign against Syria, the General at the head of our armed forces said it was a "one-time" response.
How can we not win?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 13, 2018 - 10:32pm PT
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Gassing people is against the rules
Hence the "gas_mask"
I don't have any answers, but I wonder why one method is more abhorrent than others
Edit:
Gassing people is against the rules
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2018 - 11:33pm PT
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/us/politics/lawyers-for-trumps-personal-attorney-set-for-friday-court-appearance.html
President Trump’s advisers have concluded that a wide-ranging corruption investigation into his personal lawyer poses a greater and more imminent threat to the president than even the special counsel’s investigation
Over the course of a decade, these two guys accumulated a trove of evidence of their criminal activity together. Then, they thought it would be a good idea if one of them became the most scrutinized person on the planet. In the course of achieving that goal, they engaged in numerous other high crimes and misdemeanors, and are now facing two separate Federal investigations.
"This is a legal genius"
Avenatti, ridiculing Cohen
(Trump) continued to struggle to hire a new criminal lawyer, and some of his own aides were reluctant to advise him about a response for fear of being dragged into a criminal investigation themselves.
If Trump's "Ray Donovan" master fixer can't get the job done, what hope does anybody else have?
Mr. Cohen and Mr. Trump, through their lawyers, argued in federal court on Friday that many of the seized records were protected by attorney-client privilege. Mr. Cohen argued that he or an independent lawyer should be allowed to review the documents first (before anyone at the DOJ could see them).
That sounds like a convenient defense strategy in an alternative universe:
Yawner, we believe that the defendant has every right to privately examine all the evidence against him, and to be able to conceal whatever he wants from the prosecutor.
"This is a legal genius"
Avenatti, ridiculing Cohen
On Friday, Mr. Trump’s spirits were frayed in the morning as his lawyer battled in the Manhattan courtroom. But he grew cheerier as the day went on,
There's nothing like a good missile strike to redirect your seething rage away from the injustice of a world where the law prevails.
Trump is now facing almost unbelievable legal peril. His enemies could not have ever maneuvered him into a situation like the one he has gotten himself into. Before, he was only on the hook for whatever he'd done during the election. Now, he's looking at this untenable situation:
1) Trump believed Cohen, as his lawyer, would be able to keep all their communication secret, under attorney-client privilege. Trump may have entrusted all his dirty secrets to Cohen, because he thought he was legally untouchable.
2) Trump may have discussed very incriminating subjects with Cohen, with the perception that they would always remain secret. It is possible that all criminal activity Trump engaged in was discussed with Cohen, as opposed to being spread out among his other lawyers.
3) Trump relied on Cohen to be his "Ray Donovan" fixer, a dirty trickster often operating outside of the law. A great number of crimes could have been committed during the decade that Cohen served Trump this way. Additionally, Trump may have turned over prior incriminating records to Cohen, believing him to be a safe repository for them. Cohen's own statement is that there are "Thousands, if not millions" of pages.
4) If Trump and Cohen discussed committing crimes together, those discussions would not be protected by attorney-client privilege, and would be available to prosecutors. Any records of criminal activity by Cohen would similarly be available to prosecutors.
5) On Friday, the US Attorney's Office declared in court that they believe that Cohen only had one client, Trump, and that he didn't engage in much legal work, at all, for that client. They argued that the vast majority of the records are not protected by attorney-client privilege.
6) A judge may agree with the US Attorneys, and rule that the majority of Cohen's records are not protected, and that prosecutors may access and exploit them.
7) All of Trump's dirty deeds, for decades, may be fair game for Federal and State prosecutors to pursue, at will.
8) Trump could suddenly find himself legally exposed for everything he's ever done, because his supposedly untouchable attorney was not acting like an attorney at all.
So far, it hasn't been reported if any of Trump's family members were similarly served by Cohen, but he has stated that his role was to protect Trump and his family.
Mueller has evidence that Cohen traveled to Prague in late summer, 2016, in accordance with what the Steele "Pee Tape" Dossier reported. Cohen consistently and aggressively denied that he'd ever been in Prague. The FBI raided his home, hotel and office because he had demonstrated a propensity for deception, and couldn't be trusted to not destroy evidence if subpoenaed.
The Steele Dossier reported that Cohen met in Prague with Russians connected to the Kremlin to discuss Russian interference in the 2016 election.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 04:54am PT
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So you geniuses think Macron, May, and Merkel are out to lunch for signing onto this?
Did I post that?
No, I didn't.
But if anyone thinks "this" is going to stop what is happening in Syria, they will be surprised(cough, cough, Donal Trump, cough, cough).
Cold War 2.0 just got some gasoline thrown on the physical battlefield. Anyone who still says we're not in WWIII is out to lunch, IMO.
I don't know much about the workings of world powers, but it seems they tend to like to use what they consider "disposable countries" as their skirmish fields.
Maybe the Asaad chemical attack was a false flag, to get US to act, to.... Or maybe Asaad is just that kind of a pig. In either case, Russia has outright said they back Asaad. That's not disinformation; that's speaking plainly for the stupid Americans who don't understand the subtle ironies and sarcasm of Checkist speak.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 14, 2018 - 05:52am PT
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[Jim Brennan | zBrown]:
Gassing people is against the rules It's nice to be young and naďve and blindly trust government propaganda.
I apologise for my age, but I do not believe that hundreds of people were "gassed by Assad" last month.
When hundred of people were killed in Kiev, Ukraine in February 2014 their names and addresses were published within a few days.
As a result nobody questioned whether these people were really killed.
At the same time I have not seen a list of people that were recently killed in Syria. As a result I believe that this killing is a #fakenews.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 14, 2018 - 06:26am PT
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Lituya:
That said, this attack seems like a bad idea ... What do you mean by bad idea?
Saudis and Israelis would strongly disagree with you.
Not all Americans are pleased with attack on Syria, but this is not important.
What’s important is that both Saudi and Israeli governments are pleased.
Assad represents Alawite/Shia minority. Saudis (Sunni) provide money to Syrian Sunni to fuel this sectarian war. About 10% of Syrian population are Christians and they strongly support Assad because (as compared to other Middle Eastern countries) Assad built a secular and inclusive country and because they are afraid that (similar to what happened in Iraq) Sunni would supress other minorities after taking power.
It’s not the first time Americans attack Christians abroad on Sunni behalf. Similarly, Bill Clinton bombed Serbia into submission and created independent Kosovo.
Is this a coincidence that Saudis transferred millions of dollars to Clintons’ "charities"?
P.S. Many people die in Yemen because of Saudi’s blockade and many people are killed by Saudi’s bombs. However this is apparently OK with US government. At least I have not heard anything about US government plans to bomb Saudi Arabia.
https://scontent.fyzd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30716672_1655531727901439_2408349889348477487_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a56ea91669a130943c95fb99e056abf1&oe=5B2B1257
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:02am PT
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Gassing people ...
is a quote from Jim Brennan, I quoted Jim in my post, but don't bother to read any of the rest
So it was all Trumped up, eH?
not seen a list of people that were recently killed in Syria. As a result I believe that this killing is a #fakenews.
Yury
**
When hundred of people were killed in Kiev, Ukraine in February 2014 their names and addresses were published within a few days.
As a result nobody questioned whether these people were really killed.
So you apparently believe anything that was printed by the right organization, eh?
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:26am PT
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zBrown:
I quoted Jim in my post ... zBrown, when quoting other people it makes sense to add quotation signs or to use "Insert quote formatting tags" Supertopo function. Without such quotation signs I assumed that these were your own thoughts.
zBrown:
So you apparently believe anything that was printed by the right organization, eh?
zBrown, I apologize for my poor communication skills.
I shared this list of people who were killed in Kiev, as an example of factual reporting that was accepted by people on both sides in MSM and social media.
On the other side reports of "people gassed by Assad" do not have the same level of details/truthiness and do not seem credible to me.
It's not about who published these news, but about the level of details that allows independent verification.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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deaths from the battle for Fallujah were not reported with any detail for over two weeks
therefore I simply must assume there was no battle
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:35am PT
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sorry can't resist one more thing
the moronic right wing obsession with any and all things Bill or Hillary Clinton rages on
you don't know your ass from second base about foundations or the Saudis or fundraising
what you do know is how to google image search the internet for a Hillary picture
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 14, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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224 million worth of tomahawks launched.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 14, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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MAGA
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 14, 2018 - 08:54am PT
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Magalomania...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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*Trump’s ratings with Evangelicals have actually soared since the Stormy Daniels story came out—from 61 to 78 % approval. The reason for this is simple. One of the pillars of Evangelical Christianity is the perception that Evangelicals are “outcasts” standing bravely against the evil forces of the world. This is a feature of the cult, not a bug, because it spawns a group persecution complex that solidifies their community. As the authors point out, “religious outsiders have much to gain from boundary maintenance, often courting outcast status or even persecution to rally the faithful. “
*So Trump’s sexual antics and his sociopathic insouciance when confronted with them mesh perfectly with the Evangelical mindset. His behavior conjures up sentiments not of revulsion, but of common cause. He’s an “outcast” that provides the Evangelical community a foil against which it can assert its discrete identity. Any criticism of Trump just reinforces this mindset. And most importantly, his abusive attitudes towards women reinforce the patriarchy and exploitation of women that have girded much of the entire Evangelical scheme from the get-go:
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Trump
climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 10:35am PT
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doofus and foo’. Good point.
And just another data point in our doofus and foo’ blaming ways. If we weren’t so busy constructing our mental models of what’s wrong with other people, compared to what’s right in ourselves, we might not be experiencing the belief-warping tribal political environment that we have created.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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Magalomania...
Perfect.
Magalodon is a Magalomaniac.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 14, 2018 - 10:49am PT
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Do I detect disappointment that WWIII hasn’t started?
Do I detect disillusionment with the liberal democracies’ assertion of their principles?
If Islamic rebels in British Columbia were launching missiles towards Seattle would y’all expect
us to sit on our hands?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 14, 2018 - 11:29am PT
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224 million worth of tomahawks launched
Almost a much as Trump’s parade will cost.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Apr 14, 2018 - 11:33am PT
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Assad vs Asshat...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 14, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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I guess this means Putin will finally be releasing that hotel hooker video you all have been claiming he has??
Why would he? Putin wouldn’t have anything to gain by it.
As far as collusion goes, if you have ever played the board game Risk, you make alliances (call it collusion perhaps) for your benefit, as does your ally, but when push comes to shove, it becomes knives in back time, but only if it benefits the stabber. Perhaps this is not the best analogy for explaining why Putin hasn’t turned on Trump yet, but I think it illustrates that even though people can collude with one another, it doesn’t make them pals.
Merkel didn't sign onto it.
10b4me, don’t tell him that, he knows everything.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 14, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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Wow
Aren’t you supposed to do that on a carrier?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
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Yury - all's well that ends well.
I probably should have "quoted" Jim's words
"
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 04:41pm PT
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I would bet not too many will read [quote Jim Brennan's article quote] So in summary:
This is now understood to be a general prohibition on chemical weapons and biological weapons, but has nothing to say about production, storage or transfer. Later treaties did cover these aspects — the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) and the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC).
For voracious readers put your research on which countries violate the 1972 and 1993 accords here:
Quote Here
I was wondering if these mushroom clouds are purely organic or whether they might contain "asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and of all analogous liquids, materials or devices".
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 04:44pm PT
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Almost a much as Trump’s parade will cost.
Only if you also figure in the government's costs for agents, investigators, prosecutors and judges.
Trump Parade ===> Perp Walk
Dorothy Don can click his heels together as many times as he likes, but he's not going home anytime soon. His dog Toto's papers have been seized by the Wicked Witch of the Southern District Court of New York, and the flying monkey squad will be coming after Toto, Trump and the rest very soon.
One day, Trump will wake up in a Federal dungeon, saying:
"I had the strangest dream. I was in a land where I was the biggest person, and all the little people worshiped me. And there was a fairy princess who looked just like Ivanka. And I had three friends who did whatever I told them to do. And we followed a yellow brick road that was made of solid gold. Really, really beautiful. So nice. The best road, ever.
But, then things got really ugly for me. It was so unfair. I was captured and taken to a domed building on a hill, and was put into a chamber.
"But, now I realize that I have everything I ever needed, right here. I have a bed, food, and all my new friends. I never had to be anywhere else to be happy. And I'm not going to leave here ever, ever again. Oh, Con Boss Em, there's no place like home."
WVB is old enough to remember Monty Python, but I guess they didn't pipe the BBC channel into the Valley back then. Now THAT was some dumb-ass nonsense. And it was funny as hell, and skewered some skewer-deserving aspects of British society.
It's supposed to be dumber and dumber. The dumber and dumber is what makes it great. If it wasn't dumber and dumber, people would be crying instead of laughing.
Comedy is a polite way of showing one's teeth.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
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This thread is getting dumber and dumber by every day.
You brainwashed idiots prove it every day.
This thread is dumber than Trump with Tom leading the way .....
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 14, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
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May I send you some better weed?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
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I was wondering if these mushroom clouds are purely organic or whether they might contain "asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and of all analogous liquids, materials or devices"
How would you define "gas"? What about particulate matter dispersed within the atmosphere? How small must the particles be, in order to constitute a "gas", rather than "dust"?
Most physicists and physicians would agree that radioactive particulate matter dispersed by a nuclear explosion ("fallout") is poisonous.
Thank God we have the Geneva Accords to restrain Floppy Don from lighting off the Mother of all Distractions.
Really?
California colleges consistently rank among the most difficult to get into, because the education they provide is so desirable. Even a podunk Cali college, Harvey Mudd, is in the top ten, nationwide, for percentage of rejected applicants. I think four of the other nine are also in Cali, with Stanford being #2 behind #1 Harvard.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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had to look up who that was...
Clearly, the Cali education system lends itself well to the majority opinions expressed in this thread.
"This makes me sad."
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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Really?
California colleges consistently rank among the most difficult to get into, because the education they provide is so desirable. Even a podunk Cali college, Harvey Mudd, is in the top ten, nationwide, for percentage of rejected applicants. I think four of the other nine are also in Cali, with Stanford being #2 behind #1 Harvard.
Ummmm, if you say so. History curriculum notwithstanding? Could be a K-12 issue, I suppose.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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Clearly, the Cali education system lends itself well to the majority opinions expressed in this thread.
More like open eyes, common sense, a sense of fairness, a clear understanding of the constitution, and a heart and mind free of bigotry and hate.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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Nice source xcon, here is a screenshot from their home page
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
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Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said citing the data from the Swiss laboratory that BZ toxin was used in the poisoning of the Skripals, adding that the chemical has been possessed by the US, the UK, but has never been produced in Russia.
The lab is never identified in that article. It is only referred to as "a Swiss lab", or "the Swiss lab".
The effect (of BZ) is achieved within 30-50 minutes and lasts up to four days.
Sergei Skripal is still in the hospital, more than a month after he was poisoned.
I could have, in my bathroom, a "Swiss Lab". It would be an empty Swiss Miss hot chocolate powder container that I would use for mixing up homemade toilet bowl cleaner.
And, the Swiss Lab might show that the nerve gas came from West Palm Beach, or North Korea, depending on how much fiber I have in my diet.
#BASTA
But I'd say the pages here are full of hate
Hate is not the same thing as an aversion to injustice.
You sound like the Charles Manson followers I saw on TV, back when he was on trial:
Oh, poor Charlie. Everybody here is so full of hate.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 14, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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More like open eyes, common sense, a sense of fairness, a clear understanding of the constitution, and a heart and mind free of bigotry and hate.
Again, Joseph, if you say so. But I'd say the pages here are full of hate--quite raw--and a decided lack of understanding about a great many basic subjects.
No doubt, the UC sciences remain strong--but the soft side of academia there is pushing the system over a cliff the way I see it.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 14, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
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The effect (of BZ) is achieved within 30-50 minutes and lasts up to four days.
Sergei Skripal is still in the hospital, more than a month after he was poisoned.
I appreciate that you don't routinely deal with various poisons, so you don't know from personal experience. The poison may dissipate in 4 days, but it's effect may be permanent. If it, for example, causes severe damage to your heart, the heart may remain permanently damaged.
Or, the person may have been skillfully poisoned, with the express intent of not killing, but disabling the victim.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 14, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
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RT!!! now that's a solid source
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
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RT News is the Russian government's updated version of Pravda. It's a Kremlin-funded propaganda machine.
The effect is achieved within 30-50 minutes and lasts up to four days.
The poison may dissipate in 4 days
There's no point in parsing what RT News alleges about a "confidential lab report" about the Salisbury nerve gas attack. It would be expected that Comrade Lavrov would feign broken English to additionally confuse and deceive his audience.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Apr 14, 2018 - 10:07pm PT
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Nethanzayo got trump by his balls and Bolton is his man to take care of business.Anytime the billion dollar man wants to go off track, an old case of sex whatever will surface to remind him that D.C. aint a place for the all American hero
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 14, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
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Y’all are living proof that the Rooskies invented and perfected disinformation.
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Odyssues
Trad climber
California
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Apr 14, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
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#MAGA
#kerbluey!!!
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Odyssues
Trad climber
California
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Apr 14, 2018 - 10:57pm PT
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Looks like NATO really stood up for a change.
Sweet! Even the Canadiens are on board.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2018 - 11:08pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Canadians are a understated, sedate, moralistic and adorable lot.
When a big ol' Canadian boy turns, looks, waits, and then says, "Eh?
What he really means is:
"You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Are you talking to me? Are you talking to ME? I don't see anybody else here, so you must be talkin' to me."
Canada is what you would get if you distilled America to get all the best parts, and then put that on ice so it doesn't go bad.
Canada is Britain Lite: great taste, without all those unnecessary carbs.
When W.C. Fields said, "I never met a kid I liked," he forgot about the Canadian kids. The kids from Canada who've made it in Hollywood are just priceless. John Candy, for example, or for younger readers, Mike Myers or Jim Carrey, just blow the roof off of wherever they're appearing on screen. Lorne Michaels, creator of Saturday Night Live, is a Canadian GENIUS.
And, those two Canadian kids who came to Yosemite as high schoolers, Hugh Burton and Steve Sutton, are priceless. They showed up and established Magic Mushroom. I can attest that to be a fine line that has aged well. Charlie Porter joined the Canadian Kids to put up Mescalito, which is the King Of the Trade Routes.
The nascent sport of Big Wall Camping has been developed to a very high art by Supertopo's own PTPP, who is also from Canada.
During WW II, Canada played a sedate, understated, but important role. I suppose that's how they're behaving right now.
Nethanzayo got trump by his balls and Bolton is his man to take care of business
As a child, his parents used to say to him, "Naughty. No-no."
The Israeli Knesset is still invoking that sentiment whenever they pronounce his name.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 01:32am PT
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The Trump Administration has made a great move towards draining the lobbyist swamp.
Pharmaceutical companies want to extend their expired patent monopolies indefinitely to despoil an aging, suffering public with excessively high drug prices.
Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said recently that drug makers must “end the shenanigans” that prevent competing products from reaching the market.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/us/politics/drug-companies-generic.html
Pharmaceutical companies have been restricting access to their expired patent drugs, to prevent generic equivalents from being compared to their high-dollar, name-brand cash cows. This is to prevent affordable equivalents from being available to the public. This behavior perverts the free market that the GOP/FSOP claims that they fight for.
I saw this, as a medical device engineer. It was difficult to obtain a current device, to learn from it, and strive to develop a competing alternative that was new and improved. Skullduggery and fraudulent intent was necessary to obtain an existing, simple, medical implement. The existing short-leg walkers - removable casts for the lower leg -were primitive, heavy, flexible and not ergonomic.
I hit my first home run, right out of college:
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=05078128&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.htm%2526r%3D2%2526p%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPTXT%2526S1%3DKasper-Thomas-A.INNM.%2526OS%3Din%2FKasper-Thomas-A%2526RS%3DIN%2FKasper-Thomas-A&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
Every short-leg walker today is derived from the Royce Medical Company Equalizer that I helped to develop. I was the primary structural engineer on that product. I was the first to demand glass-fiber-reinforced injected-molded nylon, and an improved torsional resistance of the sole, to stabilize the foot against rotation. Everything else, at the time, was junk.
ALL of the current short-leg walkers are derived from my design.
I worked in an environment of other companies refusing to allow scrutiny of their inferior products. Daniel Haynes, a hot-shot Beverly Hills podiatrist, was the father of my company's owner, and he not only got the competing products for us, he also came to me, and personally instructed me about how to ergonomically approach the design of the new short-leg walker that would revolutionize previously inferior designs that were artificially protected by limiting access to them.
At one time, my boss at Royce instructed me to go to a the Thousand Oaks Shopping Mall, and bribe a shoe store salesman to allow me to steal a Braddock Device, which is used to determine the size of a customer's foot.
It was right about then that I thought, "The medical industry is rife with nefarians. I need to quit, right now, and escape before I am indicted, along with the rsst."
The entire situation was a conflict between doing a great thing for humanity, and salesmen wanting to make money.
I later started making Valley Giants, stayed pure to the product, and the rest is history.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 15, 2018 - 01:58am PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 02:27am PT
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AUROHOLIC = a person who is addicted to GOLD.
This is a person who is addicted to silver - argyholic
This is a person who is addicted to gold - auroholic
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 15, 2018 - 05:50am PT
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The post world war II, white, skilled worker's pedestal has been kicked out from under him- one law, regulation, advancement and social shift at a time.
He got laid off, unemployment ran out, his daughter married a Mexican, his fat little grand kids game all day and his RV got repo'd.
Bring home the jobs? Reeducation? His tech skills are limited to playing fantasy football online. 5G and AI are coming along with the browning of America and this guy hasn't a fuking chance, he knows it.
His economic and social emasculation is complete, Fox, Rush and Hannity have explained all this to him in fine detail. Trump is the demonic hate child of his Querencia and unfortunately marks the beginning of a small but dangerous rage cult.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 15, 2018 - 06:32am PT
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Jon Beck:
RT!!! I agree.
Personally I would neither trust US MSM nor Russian MSM untill I see an independent confirmation.
Both are just tools of government propaganda (as for foreign affairs).
So far I neither saw a credible report on Skripals' poisoning nor a report on the latest "Assad's crime".
:(
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 15, 2018 - 06:47am PT
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Comparing RT to US mainstream media is laughable
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 07:42am PT
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US mainstream media is the worst brainwashing tool ever now.
What a bunch of st00pid tools the American US mainstream media is.
Americans should be ashamed.
Instead, they actually swallow all that diarrhea coming out of those corrupt terrorist organizations masquerading themselves as news ....
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Apr 15, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Repeating the same message/rant dozens of times in this thread seems like an attempt at brainwashing to me..
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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Two ducks walk into a bar in Southie.
The first duck says, "Quack, quack, quack."
The bartender puts out a bowl of oyster crackers.
The second duck says, "St00pid crankL00n Meric0ns are brainwashed idi0ts who believe everything they hear".
The bartender takes away the oyster crackers and says, "You two need to go to the back room of the kitchen".
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 15, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
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Jon Beck:
Comparing RT to US mainstream media is laughable I do not have my own opinion on RT because I watch it very infrequently, probably less than once a month.
At the same time I agree that Russian MSM is different from US MSM from manageability point of view.
In pre-1991 USSR, media was strictly controlled.
Then USSR has disappeared and government control of media got broken.
There was an incredible period of freedom when journalists and editors were able to publish whatever they wanted.
Gradually government established more control, but it's still not to the level of control in the US. Do not worry, Russian government is working on it and it will catch up soon.
You probably noticed that e.g. FOX and CNN stories are very different when they talk about internal US events.
At the same time it looks like they use exactly the same scripts when they talk about international events.
(Hint: these scripts are provided at daily foreign policy briefings by US States Department).
Exhibit 1: I assume that you heard more than 100 times about Russian aggression against Ukraine (as for Dr. Goebbels advice lies should be repeated many times to make it more credible).
How many times have you heard how US government sponsored and micromanaged Ukrainian coup in February 2014, that brought a party of Nazi sympathizers to power?
Exhibit 2: I assume that you heard more than 100 times about crimes committed by Serbs against Muslims in Kosovo.
How many times have you heard about crimes committed by Croats during ethical cleansing of Serbs in Eastern Slavonia and Serbian Krajina?
Do you really believe that free objective MSM would have provided such biased lopsided selection of stories?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 01:58pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#BattleForReality
In his new book, James Comey says Trump is like a Mob Boss.
The Don has repeatedly aggravated, annoyed and insulted the Special Prosecutor, but never thought that would not come back to bite him in the ass.
Apparently, the overgrown schoolyard bully didn't foresee the day when the geek would grow up, go to law school, become the head of the FBI, and play out his final act by redirecting all his repressed playground rage at the World's Biggest Bully to get justice for the world.
You can't make this stuff up. It writes itself.
#NeedNewChallenge #Basta
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John M
climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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Do you really believe that free objective MSM would have provided such biased lopsided selection of stories?
Actually I could believe that they would make so many mistakes. Americans care very little about foreign news unless it is dramatic. Few have any idea what is going on around the world. That carries over into the news departments mentality. The US government doesn't have to force the news providers to follow a certain story line. The news providers are cheap and lazy for the most part and are thus willing to be spoon fed. I'm sure that some news reporters would love to travel and get the story, but their bosses are too cheap to pay for that. All that you have to do to understand this phenomenon is to read todays news stories about climbing accidents. How often does the news story get the basic facts wrong? Fairly often. As climbers we know, because we care about that particular subject and we dig deeper. But the average american doesn't care and wouldn't dig deeper.
The same is true with foreigners opinions about America. I have heard all kinds of crazy things about Americans from people abroad. There are few genuinely well informed people about the entire world because that requires a huge amount of traveling and getting to know locals, and few people can do that. I would say that foreigners are probably better informed about America than American's are about the rest of the world, but that is because America has so much power and people around the world are interested in what America is doing because it affects them, thus their news agencies are more willing to spend the money to actually send reporters here. But they still have skewed views of Americans. We all have pools in our backyards and we all surf is one I have heard many times.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 15, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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Jim Brennan:
During the civil wars in the former Yugoslavia, no ethnic group were given a pass about their particular atrocities. North American media at the time, presented full reporting of what the Serbs, Croats and Muslims did to each other in pursuit of their own nation state. Jim, I have a different recollection of that time.
I remember newspapers and TV overflowing with stories of crimes committed by Serbs.
Very limited coverage of crimes committed by Croats started later.
Also I have a recollection of Americans bombing Serbia and I have no recollection of Americans bombing Croatia.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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I remember when my father voted for Nixon in 1968. That was not a bad decision. Nixon was very good as a president. He had his failings, though, the worst being that he tried to hide from a bad decision he thought was a good decision at the time he made it. It is very easy to understand that Nixon, who had no idea what drugs were, wanted to spy on the Democrats, whose unofficial spokesman was a crazy animal named Hunter S. Thompson.
Nobody ever grows up. Our society is a reflection of who we really are: children trying to make our way in the world, and some of us think that by closing our eyes we can hide from reality.
GOD! I wish Trump had stayed with making great buildings. He lost his compass when he diverted himself to the airline, the casinos and, now, the presidency.
For as long as I live, I will admire Trump for the buildings that he's created. He was one of the best. The Chicago Trump Tower was a great, final magic trick that should have been his lasting Opus Magnus.
But, it won't be.
#SAD!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Word is that the have thirty years of records from Cohen...and Donald Trump is steaming mad that his attorney/client priviledge shield may have been pierced.
I am sorry, but it is pretty hard to feel sorry for a guy who is crying "My illegal doings were supposed to be safe!"
I wonder if what he's really mad about is that Cohen has been raking him for money all these years based on the level of security his secrets have with him, and now he realizes all that money was spent on a lie.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 15, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
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Moreover, Trump’s claim that he built a real-estate fortune out of a “small” $1 million loan is simply not credible. He benefited from numerous loans and loan guarantees, as well as his father’s connections, to make the move into Manhattan. His father also set up lucrative trusts to provide steady income. When Donald Trump became overextended in the casino business, his father bailed him out with a shady casino-chip loan—and Trump also borrowed $9 million against his future inheritance. While Trump asserts “it has not been easy for me,” he glosses over the fact that his father paved the way for his success — and that his father bailed him out when he got into trouble.
For ignoring and playing down the substantial advantages his father’s wealth gave him, Trump earns Four Pinocchios.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/03/trumps-false-claim-he-built-his-empire-with-a-small-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.b8037a8e98da
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 15, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
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Trumps going to be just fine once he gets out of prison....3 years max....? He'll hit the ground running and make bank on the talk show circuit...The pee tapes will be in big demand...
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Apr 15, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
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For ignoring and playing down the substantial advantages his father’s wealth gave him, Trump earns Four Pinocchios.
That's just that popular myth that anyone can make it on their own with hard work, individual initiative and free will. It's never been that way. Like they say, behind every great fortune lies a great crime. Or else daddy's coin. The money has to come from somewhere. Anyone who tells you they made it on their own is usually a liar.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 03:27pm PT
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During the civil wars in the former Yugoslavia, no ethnic group were given a pass about their particular atrocities. North American media at the time, presented full reporting of what the Serbs, Croats and Muslims did to each other in pursuit of their own nation state.
Jim, FWIW this may have been true in Canada, but here in the US the reporting was decidedly anti-Serb. I do not recall ever seeing or reading negative reporting about Croats or Kosovar Muslims.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
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That's just that popular myth that anyone can make it on their own with hard work, individual initiative and free will. It's never been that way. Like they say, behind every great fortune lies a great crime. Or else daddy's coin. The money has to come from somewhere. Anyone who tells you they made it on their own is usually a liar.
Laughable.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 15, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
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I better go talk to my Bosnian and Syrian friends just to make sure that they’re here of their
own free will and not because liberal western democracies are fake news.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 15, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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^^^
They come here for a chance to live free and be themselves. Not to be what some people want to impose on them. That is the promise of America.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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That's just that popular myth that anyone can make it on their own with hard work, individual initiative and free will. It's never been that way. Like they say, behind every great fortune lies a great crime. Or else daddy's coin. The money has to come from somewhere. Anyone who tells you they made it on their own is usually a liar.
Sad and horrifying comments. The fruit of the CA education system I complained about earlier. You reap what you sow.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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Yeah there's a Fight Club thread, but I would love to see Don "The Pussyman" Trump jump into the octagon with James "Too Tall" Comey in a winner take all battle of the New York/Washington DC titans.
And if not that, how about
Sad and horrifying comments. The fruit of the CA education system I complained about earlier. You reap what you sow.
The non-sequitur man can carry the spit buckets
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 15, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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Lituya! Re your knee-jerk curmudgeon thoughts!
Sad and horrifying comments. The fruit of the CA education system I complained about earlier. You reap what you sow.
Frankly, I feel sorry for you & your thoughts being so luridly negative.
Horrifying comments ?
Really?
You were horrified by those comments?
Yeah, sure.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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Slippery James Comey, a man who always ends up badly and out of whack (he is not smart!), will go down as the WORST FBI Director in history, by far!
-Donald Trump
If any of us here had written something like that we would think that person was having a meltdown.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 15, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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No meltdown...Trump is very stable...And smart unlike slimeball comey who by the way is Bad...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
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The cue ball, right now, is Michael Cohen.
Trump is the nine ball, at the corner pocket.
Two different Federal prosecutors are ready to sink him.
Do you like peaches? Well, how do you like them impeaches?
Good Will Humping
I thought I was crazy, but this Trump situation, right now, is CRAZY.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Apr 15, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
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I predicted that he wouldn't last two years. I think that guess is still in the running. If he lasts four and gets re-elected by his basket and some delusional others, the US is toast and I'll be even more grateful that I live in Canada now.
But if his run is more than four years, I greatly fear for Canada too.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2018 - 08:40pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What? You can't get the news, up there in Canada?
Monday, a Federal judge is going to rule that Michael Cohen's seized documents are not protected by attorney-client privilege. The whole sordid story is going to unravel.
The appetizer, Il Plato Primero, will be the illegal payment to Stormy Daniels.
Il Plato Secundo will be Michael Cohen meeting with Kremlin spooks in Prague.
Il Plato Terzo will be Russian money funneled to the Trump election campaign.
Il Plato il Quarto will be Jared Kushner.
Ah, va bella.
A tutti bellisima.
A tutti posto.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 15, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
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I predicted that he wouldn't last two years. I didn't think he would last 6 months.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 15, 2018 - 08:58pm PT
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Can't wait till Stormy shows up in court tomorrow. Theater doesn't get much better.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 15, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
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Preet Bharara to Trump: 'Long live the crime-fraud exception'
Former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara responded to President Trump after he tweeted that the "attorney-client privilege is dead."
"Long live the crime-fraud exception," Bharara — whom President Trump fired last year after he refused to resign from his post — tweeted Tuesday.
The crime-fraud exception means that a client's communication with an attorney isn't privileged if it "involves communications in furtherance of a contemplated or ongoing crime or fraud," according to the American Bar Association.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 15, 2018 - 09:25pm PT
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We watched the one-hour interview of ex-FBI director Comey tonight on ABC.
I don't think any major new allegations were discussed, but the interview was a detailed history of Trump's disregard for normal presidential behavior, during his meetings with Comey.
It ended with Comey stating he could not say that Trump had not worked with the Russians during his election & that Trump was not morally suited to be president.
I predict another Trump "Tweetstorm" overnight.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Apr 15, 2018 - 10:31pm PT
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"That's just that popular myth that anyone can make it on their own with hard work, individual initiative and free will. It's never been that way. Like they say, behind every great fortune lies a great crime. Or else daddy's coin. The money has to come from somewhere. Anyone who tells you they made it on their own is usually a liar."
My experience people whom really make it on their own don't have to/want to brag about it..... ^^^^^I'm guessing another silver spoon fed Trumpy type such as the old fat turd
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 16, 2018 - 05:22am PT
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Nixon was very good as a president
Compared to W or Trump sure, otherwise, he was a bad president.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Apr 16, 2018 - 05:55am PT
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Slippery James Comey, a man who always ends up badly and out of whack (he is not smart!), will go down as the WORST FBI Director in history by far!
Donald Trump
Going down as the worst POTUS in history will trump that by far!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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Reilly: So you geniuses think Macron, May, and Merkel are out to lunch for signing onto this?
The French and the Brits hardly have a good record when it comes to the Middle East. Ever read The Seven Pillars of Wisdom?
The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honor. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiques are belated, insincere, incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows. It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure. We are today not far from a disaster. -- TE Lawrence
I loved it when Trump when on about dastardly nations that would kill women and children with chemical weapons. Guess it's OK to kill them the old-fasioned ways. Or is napalm considered a chemical?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:32am PT
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Oh, man - it DOESN'T get more irnonic. The con man got conned by his conman lawyer. Here's the Wiki on the school Cohen got his law degree from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Michigan_University_Cooley_Law_School
According to Cooley's ABA required disclosures, 27.4% of graduates from the class of 2015 obtained full-time, long term, bar passage required employment 9 months after graduation.[7] 23.8% of graduates were unemployed 9 months after graduation.[8] 53% of graduates passed the Michigan bar exam on their first attempt in July 2017, below the 83% average for other Michigan law schools.[9] In 2017, the school was one of ten American law schools found to be out of compliance with the American Bar Association's requirement that schools only admit students who appear capable of earning a J.D. degree and passing the bar examination.[10] The school was recently ranked the worst law school in the country by Above the Law.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Michigan_University_Cooley_Law_School
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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Ever read The Seven Pillars of Wisdom?
Like I would have made this pilgrimage without having done so?
I was in good company...
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:52am PT
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Like I would have made this pilgrimage without having done so?
It surely would have behooved the neocons to have read it before embarking on that catastrophe in Iraq. The second time I read it I substituted 'American' for 'Turk' and it was like reading the newspaper.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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No arguments there, Gary. We really should do the Arabs a favor and leave them to their
preferred pastime of killing each other, especially now that we don’t need their oil.
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The Pilsner Prophet
Trad climber
Albuquerque
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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I'm to well informed to be fooled by this crap. This has nothing to do with climbing. Trump is a great president. He was never called a racist, bigoted, homophobic man until he ran for president as a Republican. The professional liars in the liberal alphabet networks liked him. Now they hate him. The hilda-beasts lies caught up with her, and she lost. She would show up for a campaign event, only a few hundred people would show up, and the media would try to make it look like enormous crowds. Then she would faint on the way out. Trump would show up to 10, 20, 30,000 seat venues and the media would concentrate on the very rare empty seat. Bill raped women, and the media oohed and ahhed over him. Now our great president is a mysogonist because of one unproven allegation of an extra-marital affair. No- the democrat party is circling the toilet. People are waking up. They (The media) keep pushing for Trumps impeachment, but they ignored barraqk's scandals. They (Media) are one of the most distrusted organisations in existence. Fox news and News Max are attracting record numbers of viewers. There is so much news available now om the internet. The economy has taken off like a rocket after the media telling us baruk's crappy economy was all we could look forward to because we had stolen the world from the real owners. The global warming scam is being exposed. Show me some proof it's real. Don't just say the proof is there-SHOW it!! My finger is getting tired. I think I'll clean one of my 4 dozen guns.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 16, 2018 - 10:19am PT
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Funny troll Pilsner, made my morning
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 16, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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Tarbuster! That New Yorker article is interesting reading.
Here's a bit of it.
This is the week we know, with increasing certainty, that we are entering the last phase of the Trump Presidency. This doesn’t feel like a prophecy; it feels like a simple statement of the apparent truth. I know dozens of reporters and other investigators who have studied Donald Trump and his business and political ties. Some have been skeptical of the idea that President Trump himself knowingly colluded with Russian officials. It seems not at all Trumpian to participate in a complex plan with a long-term, uncertain payoff. Collusion is an imprecise word, but it does seem close to certain that his son Donald, Jr., and several people who worked for him colluded with people close to the Kremlin; it is up to prosecutors and then the courts to figure out if this was illegal or merely deceitful.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/michael-cohen-and-the-end-stage-of-the-trump-presidency
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 11:26am PT
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Didn't have to actively participate, just being aware of it is enough.
It seems not at all Trumpian to participate in a complex plan with a long-term, uncertain payoff.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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He was never called a racist, bigoted, homophobic man until he ran for president as a Republican.
the Federal Government begs to differ with you
Donald Trump was sued, twice, by the Fed Gov for refusing to rent his NYC housing to black people
I will not bother taking apart the rest of your uninformed, misinformed, and lazy intellect blather
it is obvious you have done zero research and simply repeat lies fed to you by other liars
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 16, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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How Congress’s and Trump’s latest deficit binge paved the way for the next one
By 2022, the U.S. government is projected to spend almost as much money on interest payments for its massive debt as it will on the Pentagon. President Trump and Congress have not only massively expanded the U.S. government’s debt, they have broken free of multiple guardrails intended to keep budgets balanced, freeing future lawmakers to further expand the yawning gap between what the government takes in and what it spends.
So here is the truth about GOP economists, as stated by the Wa Post.
I'm particularly disappointed that John E, in his capacity as an economist, signed onto this "borrow money to pay rich taxpayers" scheme. I also view his repeated and frequent exhortations that he was not voting for trump, nor Hillary, and others should follow his lead----I'm sure that was a defined GOP strategy to persuade Hillary potential voters to protest, and thus pull support away from her.
All to generate business for his business, and put money in his pocket, no matter how it hurts the rest of the country.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 16, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
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This is the week we know, with increasing certainty, that we are entering the last phase of the Trump Presidency. This doesn’t feel like a prophecy; it feels like a simple statement of the apparent truth.
We been hearing about Trump's ouster from day one. These bold claims remind me of Twain's "The report of my death was an exaggeration."
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
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Sean fkkin Hannity
Updated, 3:12 p.m. (AP): President Donald Trump's personal attorney has been forced to reveal that another of his clients is Fox News host Sean Hannity. Lawyers for Michael Cohen argued in court on Monday that they could not identify Hannity because he asked that his name not be disclosed in connection with an FBI seizure of Cohen's files. But Judge Kimba Wood made one of the lawyers identify him in open court. The hearing in a New York City courtroom stems from a surprise raid this month on Cohen's home and office.
Bright guy. Can he count?
Cohen's attorneys argued last week that there were "thousands if not millions" of privileged documents among the materials seized in the FBI raids.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
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Great article Tarbuster. But I fear that the GOP has done a Faustian deal with the tRump devil, and they will try to shield him until they feel he is of no use any longer. They realize his base does not care if he is a racist, mysoginist crook. It will be death by a thousand cuts as the evidence of his ugly life continues to trickle out.
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 16, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
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1000th post.
That is all.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
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That would be hilarious if Hannity gets swept up and put into a Federal dumpster along with Trump amd Cohen. Those guys could pass the time doing their Three Stooges routine for the other inmates.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
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Can one experience too much schadenfreude?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
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Trump is a great president.
Among the ranks of all the white nationalist, misogynistic, sociopath traitors who have served as president I would have to agree - none greater.
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
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Why is it that Faux News doesn't want to say anything about the new Hannity news?
Every other news agency is already reporting on the story.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:20pm PT
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But, but, but what is Rush Limbaugh saying? I’m sure he can explain this all away as a liberal conspiracy to destroy ‘Merica.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
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I gotta say, I'm a little obsessed with Hannity. He is a little man with a little brain who hit on an algorithm to make himself important in a really weird period in American history. I hate the little sycophant! He and his ilk are enervating America. I would love to see him go down.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:53pm PT
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Well, so much for any claim to lawyer-client privilege.
No, a formal relationship required in most jurisdictions. A confidential relationship can be formed during a conversation at a cocktail party if an attorney is not careful. No sympathy for Hannity, he deserved to be embarrassed.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
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Can Trump pardon himself...?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.
The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.
The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
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Things we've learned about Michael Cohen in the 11 days since Trump said "Ask Michael Cohen":
He's under criminal investigation;
The Feds think he has criminal evidence;
He barely practices law but does 'other things' for Trump;
He represents Sean Hannity.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
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Can Trump pardon himself...?
He can't pre-emptively pardon himself. He would have to be charged and convicted before a pardon was even possible.
There is an issue over whether a sitting president can be brought before a Federal court on criminal charges. There are conflicting legal theories with that, and they've never been tested before. Trump will most likely be the first to stagger into that untested legal territory. #MAGA.
The Constitution seems to indicate that the proper procedure is to remove the president from office, and then crucify him in a criminal court of law. He would not have the power to pardon anyone, and would have the same legal status as Michael Cohen, or any other criminal.
Clearly, the president can't pardon himself if convicted in the Senate to remove him from office. So, the most direct and uncontestable procedure is to impeach him, remove him from office, and then indict and convict him.
Pence could then pardon Trump, a la Ford and Nixon. And then, Pence could be impeached and removed from office.
This Trumpian tornado of turpitude is probably going to be swirling around for a long time.
I thought the Department of Justice was leading the way.
I'm just an observer, heckling and jeering from a cheap seat in the Peanut Gallery.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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Trumpian tornado of turpitude is probably going to be swirling around for a long time
With you leading the way .....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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"Not the size of my hands that concerns me, it's my tiny lil brain"
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Apr 16, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
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The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal.
Norton, I'm not arguing as I don't know, but are you sure? Earlier last year I read a book about that same issue (Author is a Constitutional scholar, can't remember his name) and if I recall, whether or not a President can pardon himself is a complex issue, open to interpretation.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 05:01pm PT
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Pence could then pardon Trump, a la Ford and Nixon. And then, Pence could be impeached and removed from office.
Yeah, but the pardon is only good for Federal crimes. The Cohen stuff is State of New York.
Where's this all going? No one could have made this shite up. I hate to say it, but I was a young man when the whole Watergate circus was running. I remember sitting in front of the TV every evening as the process proceeded. I knew all the players and later became the subject of one of my book collections. This is headed the same way.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
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pick a target and attack them personally
that's all he has and with early dementia that's all he knows how to do nowadays
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 16, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
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George from Seinfeld
Lol and no collusion.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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P R E V A G E N
Won't help Trump or Hannity
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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Can Trump pardon himself...?
He can only pardon himself in private. There are laws against publicly pardoning himself.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 16, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
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Cohen is facing at least some Federal charges. It was a Federal search warrant that served him up, piping hot, to Federal prosecutors. I have no doubt he will also face some State charges, to head Trump off at the pass.
Trump's campaign manager, Paul Manafort, has been indicted in Virginia State Court, as well as Federal Court. In February, a Virginia grand jury indicted Manafort for tax, financial, and bank fraud crimes. Trump can't pardon him for those crimes.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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Dershowitz confronts Hannity: 'You should have disclosed your relationship with Cohen'
When is the tweet storm about Kimba Woods's playboy bunny past?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 16, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
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Definetly
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 16, 2018 - 08:09pm PT
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Sounds like there are fair odds Cohen regularly tape-recorded his calls and that they might have scored a trove of such recordings. Regardless, you can bet it will be a bounty of badness.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
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Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
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When they opened Al Capone's vault, it was empty.
When they opened Michael Cohen's vault, it was so full of goodies they spilled out into the room.
Trump's command of language isn't the best. So, it's easy to understand that he confused "Cohen" for "Cohn", and thought that Michael Cohen would be the effective dirty trickster that Roy Cohn supposedly was.
Cohen != Cohn
Here's another one to file under, "You Can't Make This Stuff Up":
Kimba Wood, the judge hearing the legal fight between federal investigators and the President Trump lawyer who inked a hush agreement with a porn star, trained to be a Playboy bunny in 1966.
At this point, the only way to shock the audience would be to reveal Melania Trump to be a transvestite.
Trump reverses course on Russian sanctions, overruling his advisors
Trump is trying to kiss and make up with Putin. He's hoping Putin will forgive him and take him back, and let him live at the Kremlin.
Kimba Wood has no intention of denying that she worked briefly at a Playboy club. Back then, the cocktail waitresses, in their bunny outfits, were entirely separate from the girls who posed nude in the magazine. She could have just as well have been a waitress at the Russian Tea Room.
Judge Wood, already a Federal court superstar, was at the center of a spectacular marriage detonation in 1995 that involved a multi-millionaire Wall Street guy whose diary was raided by his wife.
My guess is that a transvestite Melania-lookalike will seek fifteen minutes of fame.
The circus is in town, and now is the time to join it.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 08:41pm PT
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Damn Tom, I didn't know that!!!!!! Can she prove she isn't?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
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Sean Hannity appears to have embarked on a toila-swirl journey into oblivion. Fox News is already synonymous with sex scandal. Hannity is apparently about ready to be dethroned in an O'Reilly Reloaded sequel.
In a legal filing before the hearing on Monday, Mr. Cohen said that, since 2017, he had worked as a lawyer for 10 clients, seven of whom he served by providing “strategic advice and business consulting.” The other three comprised President Trump, the Republican fund-raiser Elliott Broidy and a third person who went unnamed until Judge Wood demanded that Cohen's attorney stop dissembling and name the third client. It turned out to be Sean Hannity.
It was like a bomb went off in the courtroom.
Michael Avenatti
Mr. Hannity denied on Monday that he was ever a client of Mr. Cohen’s, saying that he had never paid him for his services and that his discussions with him were brief and centered on real estate.
Hannity went on to contradict himself, and say that he believed his discussions with Cohen were protected under attorney/client privilege.
Of those three Cohen clients, it is undisputed that two wanted Cohen to cover up scandalous sex affairs. It was Cohen himself who grouped Hannity with those two, and not with the other seven.
Hannity is claiming that his "brief discussions, centered on real estate" would not qualify as "strategic advice and business consulting". He's also calling Michael Cohen's attorney a liar, and accusing him of lying to a judge in Federal court.
Not only are the all the rats scurrying to get off the PSS Trumptanic as fast as possible, they're cannibalizing each other on the way out.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
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According to his forthcoming book “Higher Loyalty,” Comey—who was unceremoniously fired by Trump to take “pressure” off the Russia investigation—writes he does not recall having ever seen the president laugh.
“I don’t recall seeing him laugh, ever,” Comey wrote. “Not during small talk before meetings. Not in a conversation. Not even here, during an ostensibly relaxed dinner.”
“I suspect his apparent inability to do so is rooted in deep insecurity, his inability to be vulnerable or to risk himself by appreciating the humor of others, which, on reflection, is really very sad in a leader, and a little scary in a president,” Comey added.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
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I've seen it many times that a sitting president cannot be indicted, but why not?
an indictment is nothing but an accusation, although formal. Should not the legal establishment, having evidence of a criminal act by a President, not be allowed to so state?
It is NOT a conviction.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
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supposedly trump's inner circle is worried that this Cohen thing is more detrimental to trump than the russian inquiry.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 10:11pm PT
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Ken M,
Trump could try to control how a grand jury was convened, and pervert the course of justice. Even if there was no actual impropriety, the appearance of it would still be there. It would contaminate any result.
The most direct, foolproof and unassailable procedure would be to impeach him and remove him from office, and afterward indict and try him in court.
When a man is sent before a firing squad, he is always disarmed first, to take away any power he could use to disrupt the proceedings.
Trump has spent over $2 million in campaign contributions for lawyers. The money was donated to his reelection fund, but is being used to pay lawyers to deal with Trump's ever-widening compendium of scandal.
Campaign funds were also paid to the Trump Corp., which is owned by his sons, Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber.
Trump's lawyers and his sons received one of five campaign donation dollars this year
Trump has been busy Keeping Up With The Kashinagins:
Trump has earned over $15 million from Republican groups
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 16, 2018 - 10:27pm PT
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I've seen it many times that a sitting president cannot be indicted,
...mostly by people who don’t want to see him indicted.
There isn’t constitutional immunity for a President. There is for senators and congressmen going to and from congress for CIVIL cases, but none for a president. Not included in Congressional immunity are treason, felonies, or breach of peace. If you have a grievance against a congressman, wait until Congress isn’t in session unless is about a bar fight or something.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/congressional-immunity/
Charles Pinckney, a signer of the Constitution, said, “No privilege of this kind [given to Congress] was intended for your Executive” because “no subject had been more abused than privilege.”
SCOTUS in Gravel v. United States (1972) said, “the so called executive privilege has never been applied to shield executive officers from prosecution for crime.”
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/408/606/case.html
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:31am PT
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According to sources....
Cohen was representing Hannity on his child sex trafficking case
and a pay off to his gay boyfriend
and his Russian collusion, uranium stock, puppy strangling, and illegal gun sales
what else can we accuse him of, Hannity style!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Listen carefully to Hannity when he speaks, and you can hear him say things like:
Nobody can fault Donald Trump for chasing women. I am also unable to resist ovine lady.
a pay off to his gay boyfriend
If I had a bookie, I would bet money on that one.
I've only seen Hannity's belligerent drill-sergeant act a few times, but he reminds me of a gym class bully who only goes after little kids.
Hannity is the type of guy whose hair stays combed in the water. When younger, he would have been called a Greaser. Today, he is so aggressive in pushing his flawed viewpoint, he seems a natural candidate for leather fetishism.
Why is it inappropriate to play according to Hannity's own rules? He is a master of almost-libelous statements. It's his schtick, and why his audience tunes in to him.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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pick a target and attack them personally
call em out by name and tell them how stupid they are
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:42am PT
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:57am PT
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No sign of Hannity headlines on Faux News still...
They refuse to even acknowledge it as news.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
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Saw someone quote a Fox Statement that, despite being unaware of the conflict of interess....I mean informal relationship, they $till support $$ean Hannity.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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The only Faux News about Hannity I've seen is Laura Ingraham saying,
Hannity, I'm just glad that the heat is off of me, and now it's on you.
At least they're consistent in their dysfunctional dog-eat-dog economic philosophy.
Mirroring how they view Trump, this is what a typical Hannity viewer might say:
"I don't listen to Hannity because he is an honest upstanding, moral person. I listen to him because I like what he says."
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 17, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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No sign of Hannity headlines on Faux News still...
They refuse to even acknowledge it as news.
Well, what's the significance of this so-called news?
Seems like it's hard to say without knowing what the advice was about, and so far I haven't heard anything.
About the only thing I've even heard that is sort of a good point is that perhaps Hannity should have disclosed the relationship when commenting on Cohen, but that doesn't seem like too big of a deal.
And some of the people blasting Hannity are simply ignorant. E.g., this was Kimmel's big dig on Hannity:
According to Hannity, he never dealt with Cohen on matters between him and a "third-party."
"I don't know what kind of legal advice doesn't involve a third party?" Kimmel asked. "Unless maybe Sean Hannity was thinking of suing himself?"
Kimmel may not know what types of legal advice don't involve third parties, but take it from me, as someone who has sat in an office giving legal advice for over 20 years. The answer is: lots. I suppose all legal advice does in some hypothetical sense involve a relationship with the outside world, but that doesn't mean it involves a "third party" in the way that any lawyer would use that term. Another way to say it is a lot of legal advice does not involve an adverse party or even a specific interested third party. Consider things like intellectual property advice (what I do) or general business law advice. Some of it involves third parties, much of it does not.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
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blahblah, you dare to question Kimmel’s legal knowledge? What he is deathly afraid of is
that said third party is not a Russian oligarch or Saudi princeling. Then he would have to
come up with something substantive to smirk about. Surely you remember when comedy
was funny, don’t you?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
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blahblah - It's considered an ethical standard to disclose relationships when reporting on them. You may have heard a news anchor say something like "So and So is an advertiser on this channel" when doing a news story about So and So. Or, "It should be noted that I previously worked at Such and Such, when reporting on Such and Such.
It's about ethics, and avoiding a conflict of interest.
But, don't assume I know what I'm talking about - because, sometimes I don't, and that doesn't stop me from posting.... You may want to double check, and I'll make that easy for you. Here's a link from the American Press Institute
https://www.americanpressinstitute.org/publications/reports/strategy-studies/disclosures-values/
In that link, included is the following:
Looking across the landscape, we conclude there are typically five situations when a disclosure needs to be added to a piece of content:
Personal connections to sources, organizations or events mentioned in reporting.
Organizational links to sources, organizations or events mentioned in reporting.
Limitations of any data or material used. (Meaning: Here’s what we don’t know, or some mitigating factors.)
When unusual methods are used to gather information (such as in the above example).
When there is an unusual arrangement with sources (such as enabling them to remain anonymous or use a pseudonym).
For most people, it would be clear that Hannity should have disclosed his relationship, when reporting on Cohen. Or, he should have let Fox News know of the relationship and why his reporting on Cohen could come back as egg on his face.
But why let ethics get in the way of things, when it's just more comfortable to ignore them?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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Faux News has never cared about ethics...ever.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 17, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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For most people, it would be clear that Hannity should have disclosed his relationship, when reporting on Cohen. Or, he should have let Fox News know of the relationship and why his reporting on Cohen could come back as egg on his face.
But why let ethics get in the way of things, when it's just more comfortable to ignore them?
I did say Hannity not disclosing seemed like maybe a problem. Just not that big a deal.
A few things to remember:
First, Hannity is not journalist. He is a commentator. There is a difference, even though sometimes the lines get a bit blurred.
Second, even if he were a journalist, that is not a licensed profession with strict rules of ethics that can be enforced. As a lawyer, you are bound by actual rules of ethics (which are not always the same as what we think of as moral ethics--some of them are pretty technical and somewhat arbitrary). And if you violate the ethical rules, you're subject to sanctions, up to disbarment (you know, what would have happened to Bill Clinton had he not "voluntarily" surrendered his law license before he got disbarred).
There's nothing really like that for journalists or commentators--they've just got to use some common sense. Here, Hannity kind of blew it on Cohen, but what's the big deal?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 17, 2018 - 01:56pm PT
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Michael Cohen has never represented me in any matter. I never retained him, received an invoice, or paid legal fees.
It would seem pretty difficult to make this claim while simultaneously claiming attorney/client privilege.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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It is not difficult if you are an idiot.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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Well, what's the significance of this so-called (Hannity) news?
The significance is that Michael Cohen, himself, grouped Hannity as part of the Three Clients, and not as a member of the Seven Clients he stated were asking for business advice.
Cohen's own demarcation of clients, with Three here, and Seven there, was of his own volition. This is what he presented to the Southern District Court of New York, within his pleading to beg himself to be able to redact any inconvenient evidence against himself.
This is just legal buffoonery, and amazing to witness. Again, this is astonishing, to witness.
Again, just listen, again, at how this legal genius has played his cards in this game.
Hannity was grouped, by Cohen himself, into a Group of Three, two of whom have been proven to have made Big Money pay-offs to women to conceal extra-marital affairs.
Hannity claims he only received informal, unpaid advice about real estate conceptualization from Cohen.
Hannity's hair may stay combed in the shower, but he's is all wet, when he says that.
Cohen, himself said Hannity was not in a Group of Seven, but in a selective, and specific, Group of Three. Two in that group wanted "fixing" and not legitimate legal advice.
Hannity looks, right now, like a person who wanted to conceal something.
Hannity looks like the kind of guy who was ravenous for the skills of Trump's master dirty fixer, needing the dirty guy who knew how to money-fix porn stars, Playboy bunny pussy, and whomever else Sean Hannity had narariously engaged with, sexually, or otherwise.
Tomorrow, the Various Times might use all their available ink to print a 72-font headline about a Tale of Pure Sordidness, wherein Sean Hannity's tiny accomplice was involved in a sordid situation.
THIS STUFF JUST WRITES ITSELF. YOU CAN'T MAKE IT UP.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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It's about ethics, and avoiding a conflict of interest.
I disagree. It's more about smoke screens and mirrors these days. Journalism is at an interesting crossroad in this great country of ours...
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
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smoke screens and mirrors these days.
Yes the US lamestream media is just that nowadays along with some very criminal spin reporting to brainwash the masses as the OP in this thread keeps showing his brainwashing .....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 04:47pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BATTLE FOR REALITY
In my heart, I am a mathematical geek. Truth is within a symbolic equation. Truth, through an accurate modeling of math and physics, can predict the future.
BUT, SUDDENLY, HERE COMES THIS GUY:
A gold-addicted dipshit who pretends that prevaricational rhetoric is truth.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:49pm PT
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So if a news person or TV commentator owns stock in say for example, Apple, some ethical standard requires her to report that fact when doing a news story or commentary on Apple stock performance?
Not buying it; no such standard. In fact I think there are damn few news reporting standards; plenty of opinions however!
DMT
I think if you employ the CEO of Apple as your council, you are obligated to disclose that when you report on them.
As to the “I was never invoiced or paid by check” claim, it’s not a denial of a consideration for reciprocal agreements.
We’ll see how that plays out. There’s a reason Hannity wants to claim client privilege.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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SHUT UP. Where's my bourbon? Don't you look at me. Don't you f*#king look at me.
Frank Booth, a conscientious voter, exhorting an associate to be aware of what is happening.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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It is not that bad
Yet.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Battle for Reality
Read your Orwell.
Amazingly, that book is necessary, in these Trumpian times.
The Battle For Reality will be won by those who can assimilate reality.
Tomy Lohren, I will shut you down.
If you're ready to go, battle of the best, you better bring more to the game, than Trump tooled a strumpet.
He did, he tooled a strumpet.
Oh, well they don't speak good English in that podunk fake college you went to.
I see. Got it. You're not in tune. You don't know. . . . . . . . .
WAY, true, girl.
And, you know it be TRUE.
It be true, Trump's tiny accomplice got some good, porno-star wetness.
And, this Tomy Larhen wetness I got be WAY better, than what you got, Sista.
You ain't my Sista, Bitch.
And, you better prove your stinky wetness be better, Girl.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT SAME THING, AT THIS POINT . . . ... . .
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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What y'all will find interesting is the depth of Cohen Russian mafiya entanglements and money laundering ((in trump properties)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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but what about Hillary's missing emails...LMAO...The whiny bitch republican moral majority sh#t their pants nightly over every Fox news conspiracy theory but are silent about the ongoing trump gong show...where's your moral outrage when it really counts...?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 09:30pm PT
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What y'all will find interesting is the depth of Cohen Russian mafiya entanglements and money laundering
Dang!
Dogg!
You wid uz, or wha......
Whennidida, yo be find,
interesting in all da depths,
Wid Cohen, Russian Mayfia;
Southern Circuit: he da bitch.
It's always fun to learn a new language.
#Basta
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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From MSNBC..........
“Donald Trump is cheap,” O’Donnell said. “That’s why Michael Cohen is in his life. That’s why Michael Cohen might ruin his life.”
“Donald Trump is getting the best lawyers he can get,” O’Donnell continued, adding that he’s paying for it with funds from his presidential campaign fund. But what the president does not know, the host said, is that the “founders of that law firm were assistant U.S. attorneys” who served with former FBI Director James Comey.
“Three days after Trump fired James Comey, Spears & Imes wrote a letter to [Deputy Attorney General Rod] Rosenstein calling for the appointment of a special counsel,” O’Donnel said.
“And Donald Trump does not know that,” O’Donnell later added.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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what about Hillary's missing emails.
The New Game is too complex for Hannity,
He'll be soon going off on a one-man circle-jerk:
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THE RUSSIANS HACKED INTO THE PRIVATE SERVER. MELANIA'S EMAILS ARE SAFE. WE CAN BE ASSURED. AT THIS POINT, THE CONSPIRACY HAS BEEN SHUT OFF. AS LONG AS MY HAIR STAYS COMBED IN THE SHOWER, I WILL HAVE MICHEAL COHEN COVERING UP WHATEVER WAS DESCRIBED IN FEDERAL COURT AS EMBARRASSING TO MY LONG-SUFFERING WIFE, WHO HAS FILED PAPERS AGAINST ME THIS MORNING.
WAIT. I CAN'T KEEP THE STORY STRAIGHT.
WHOSE SIDE AM I ON?
AM I STILL WITH TRUMP?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
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Donald Trump is getting the best lawyers he can get,
The way I have heard it, those "best" are like the bottom of the barrel.
No real lawyer is going to represent Trump, and then wait for him to sabotage his own case by tweeting incriminating outbursts, in the middle of the night.
If I am fast enough, and can write my name on a discarded matchbook cover fast enough, I can become Trump's Lead Counsel:
"Yawner, the defendant pleads insanity, with an excuse . . . "
The worst part of digging to the bottom of the barrel is the slime at the very bottom.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 10:05pm PT
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Can’t wait to hear what y’all will yap about when ya git yer boi Pence.
Dude will make Torquemada look weak!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2018 - 12:27am PT
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that duck spent too many nights in the Yosemite Lounge
Don't be too fast to disrespect The Duck.
He is the Duck of Death . . . he's seen more death than anybody here.
Nobody, here, has had to see what he's seen.
Just one example:
A guy goes to free solo the Braille Book, on Higher Cathedral, and gets in trouble.
The best pilots in the world, from a Naval Air Station in Lemoore, come out to rescue him.
As I understand that situation, the helicopter had this guy, on a rope. The wind compelled the pilot to pull back on the collective pitch, and the helicopter pulled away from the cliff, losing altitude, and the guy, on the rope, was fatally dragged through the trees.
This was not a Duck, quacking in a pond.
This was a serious situation, wherein the Duck of Death had to go deal with a terrible situation that nobody else on this forum has ever had to deal with.
Please, don't give the Duck any grief. You don't know. You've never been there.
I was about four minutes removed from being, right there, when a guy fell from the Jungle at the Royal Arches, and landed on a pillar just above the Devil's Bathtubs. WVB didn't know where he was, until I said I'd found some boots that mysteriously fell from the sky, and fell into the Tubs.
The Duck has been there, seen more, and is a better man than you can imagine.
In a very real sense, the Duck is the last little piece of Jim Bridwell that is still alive. Or, at least, the last man standing who Jim Bridwell had as his lieutenant. The Duck is the last man standing from the original Jim Bridwell YOSAR crew.
Don't disrespect the Duck.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 18, 2018 - 12:29am PT
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the battle for reality
the republican party has been built on unreality for many years.
1980 Reagan was elected by promising to balance the budget while building up the military. laugh. His foreign policies such as arms for hostages help undermine large areas of the world for many decades to come.
1988 Bush Sr won against Dukakis with a negative campaign of trivial issues such as the furlough program.
1992 repubs lose to Clinton when perot wins 19% of popular vote.
2000 bush jr first wins the primaries with a campaign of lies against McCain, and then wins the presidency with massive funding from the swamp and a campaign of lies against Gore, despite losing the popular vote, plus Nader taking 2.8%. junior immediately provides astounding large tax cuts for the rich. he attempts to privatize social security but fails. His ties to crooked energy industry are Russia levels of corruption. His ill thought and unplanned attack on Iraq expecting parades was based on complete lies about WMD, cost many trillions of dollars, destroyed Iraq, led to ongoing strife with the islamic state. Between that, the denial of climate change, and a war on family planning, the repubs crippled effective US foreign policy.
2004 bush jr continues his funding from the swamp, defeats Kerry with the help of enormous swiftboating lies, pandering to the morons thinking we are fixing Iraq, and election tampering in Ohio.
2008 the kooks and racists took over the repub campaign, turning the idiot palin into their star. However McCain did not play up this idiocy nor take advantage of it as trumpy later did. Economy falls just before the election, helping elect Obama.
This popularity of Palin, which is truly the worship of deliberate ignorance, marks a turning point to where the elections become dominated by nonsense. The rise of alt media and kook news on the internet allows everyone to think they are the wisest; no matter that their IQ is 63.
see the Atlantic article for more. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/
2010 Tea Party started by billionaires/koch to delude the lemmings into thinking the billionaires would help them. Tea party deceptions promising help for the working class and quack conspiracies dominate their feeble minded followers.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=3031407&msg=3032194#msg3032194
2016 trumpy and bannon have learned that constant lies, daily outbursts on unreality tv, faux conspiracies, fake appeals to populism, fake religiousity, and unending hearings and rants about Hillary convince the lemmings to elect a crooked con man, in a country where an archaic electoral system distorts any notion of a fair democracy.
2017 they give yet another massive tax cut to the rich, by borrowing against the future, despite a healthy economy. Any lies to reform the swamp are of course forgotten, including the pledge to end "carried interest." They destroy the state dept, EPA and the CFPB and dump a new fortune on the military.
After 25 years of fox news gaining the more accurate name of faux news, trumpy attempts to adopt this terminology as his own, ranting about fake news whenever someone points out his lies.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2018 - 12:50am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I once read something from an Italian writer, and the translation into English went about like this:
The official fictions of the Roman Empire were that .... ...."
'Nough said.
Noam sane?
#BattleForReality #Basta
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 18, 2018 - 07:03am PT
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Can’t wait to hear what y’all will yap about when ya git yer boi Pence.
Dude will make Torquemada look weak!
Reilly, you got that right. Trump is a buffoon and a puppet. Pence, on the other hand, IS the anti-Christ. The man is unadulterated evil who'll happily do to the US what he did to Indiana.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 18, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Can’t wait to hear what y’all will yap about when ya git yer boi Pence.
Dude will make Torquemada look weak!
Pence is already f*#ked for repeatedly lying - speaker of the house.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Behind every great man is a great Michael Cohen:
If you dip your wick, she will submit.
What's wrong with a guy whose piety requires he never be in a room with a woman?
Jesus was never in a room with a woman, even when he was born.
Mary was a virgin and her baby was delivered by Amazon Prime.
Look it up on Hannity dot com.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 18, 2018 - 10:33am PT
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More Good Christian News
Barbara Moore, 49, told DailyMail.com in an exclusive interview she had an affair with Donald Trump from March to September 1993 - when he was engaged to Marla Maples
•She decided to tell her story after being bombarded with press requests after she was named in former Playboy model Karen McDougal's lawsuit against America Media
Moore says the secret relationship petered out shortly before the birth of Tiffany Trump. Later that year, Trump married Marla Maples. Moore was shocked by the news.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
Trump needs to date several women at a time while to satisfy his Christian urges
I wonder if he told her she reminds him of Ivanka?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2018 - 11:02am PT
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Well, at least Donald Dood has an eye . . . . . .
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If Melania wanted it, I'd take her up Snake Dike, right now.
OH, MY GOD.
Jim Bridwell gave us so much, but Snake Dike is the best. Anybody can do it.
Just, absolutely, the best.
And, the BEST on that one is suddenly getting Big Air, in an amazing place.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 18, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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I spoke to two former federal investigators who told me Cohen was introduced to Donald Trump by his father-in-law, Fima Shusterman, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Ukraine who arrived in the U.S. in 1975. Shusterman was in the garment business and owned a fleet of taxicabs with his partners, Shalva Botier and Edward Zubok – all three men were convicted of a money-laundering related offense in 1993. "Fima may have been a (possibly silent) business partner with Trump, perhaps even used as a conduit for Russian investors in Trump properties and other ventures," a former federal investigator told me. "Cohen, who married into the family, was given the job with the Trump Org as a favor to Shusterman."
Take two
Cohen joined the Trump Organization around the time that the second Sunny Isles tower was being built. A few years earlier, he had invested $1.5 million in a short-lived Miami-based casino boat venture run by his two Ukrainian business partners, Arkady Vaygensberg and Leonid Tatarchuk. Only three months after its maiden voyage, it would become the subject of a large fraud investigation. But Cohen was saved from his bad investment by none other than Trump himself, who hired Cohen as an attorney just before his casino ship sank. A source who investigated Cohen's connections to Russia told me, "Say you want to get money into the country and maybe you're a bit suspect. The Trump organization used lawyers to allow people to get money into the country."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 18, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
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It's never a good sign when you send the head of the CIA to do SecState's or UNAmb's job. In fact, I'd go so far as to say to protect our democracy we should enact legislation to make directors of the CIA and NSA ineligible for cabinet positions, the presidency, and vice presidency.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
RIGHT THERE.
What kind of Dolt (climbing related) would openly want a CIA guy as the Secretary of State?
Mama always said, "Stupid is, as stupid does."
Forrest Trump
It is astonishing that Trump thinks that a CIA guy is the best foot to put forward, to pronounce that America is doing the right thing for the rest of the world.
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SH#T UP.
#BASTA
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 18, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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Look Trump's got a tough row to hoe in N. Korea due to Obama's basically kicking the can on that one (and so many others!).
Best thing we can do is all support him and acknowledge that everything isn't going to be perfect, but just focus on the big picture--markets seem to be coming back, economy is humming along nicely, Trump seems to be making at least a little progress on NK (much more so than his predecessors at least)
. . . no reason to rock the boat by nitpicking everything Trump does.
And Hannity seems to have dodged a bullet--pretty much dropped off of CNN, and Fox never really picked up the story. Must be breathing a big sigh of relief and hopefully he learned a bit of a lesson: even though his actions may have been technically proper (hard to say for sure), he should really try to conduct himself as being completely beyond approach.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 18, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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btw, who is on first?
Yes.
No. Who.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 18, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
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blahblah? On your last post about Hannity, at the end you sum up with:
as being completely beyond approach.
I agree you likely meant "beyond reproach."
A more correct statement would say: "above reproach."
Didn't you recently imply you were a lawyer?
Where the heck did you go to school?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 18, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
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Look Trump's got a tough row to hoe in N. Korea due to Obama's basically kicking the can on that one (and so many others!).
No one kicked that one down the road, the N. Koreans have just been intractably disinterested in cooperating and trumpco is likely going to get played on the one thing he's really gambling big on.
On the other hand you can claim everyone has kicked the can on Israel who also has never had nor will have an interest in peace with the Palestinians.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 18, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 18, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
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as being completely beyond approach.
I agree you likely meant "beyond reproach."
A more correct statement would say: "above reproach."
Looking those up in Webster’s second and third unabridged dictionaries, there are the same . Each entry lists the other as a synonym.
Both mean blameless.
It’s worth noting that the King James New Testament uses the ‘above’ version, (Timothy, Phillipians, Titus)
The Old Testament uses the other version in Samuel in reference to blame carrying to succeeding generations, as does Colossians with the phrase “ Holy, blameless, and beyond reproach”
Class dismissed.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 18, 2018 - 08:38pm PT
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Didn't you recently imply you were a lawyer?
Where the heck did you go to school?
Fritz,
If you want to know where I went to school, just ask SomebodyEverybody (or something like that), Supertopo's best cyberstalker.
I'm sure he'll tell you where I went to law school, undergrad, and probably back to preschool I'd imagine (he's good).
Actually I assume your question is basically rhetorical, but I went to good ol' CU for law school.
(And thanks Lorenzo for correcting Fritz's incorrect attempt to correct me on beyond / above; as for "approach," I sincerely apologize for the consternation my typo seems to have caused!)
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 18, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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blahblah! Thank you for your polite reply:
Fritz,
If you want to know where I went to school, just ask SomebodyEverybody (or something like that), Supertopo's best cyberstalker.
I'm sure he'll tell you where I went to law school, undergrad, and probably back to preschool I'd imagine (he's good).
I am reminded of this story of mine, about Jim Donini being able to identify what University climbers attended.
I find that some well-traveled people, like Donini, are able to tell not only what state people are from, but where they attended college.
Donini was drinking and having fun with some younger members at an AAC meeting.
After a while, he pointed to a climber and said: “You went to school at Stanford, right”?
The climber smiled and said: “Yes, I did, but how do you know”?
Donini said: “I travel a lot, and have met a lot of well-educated climbers, and I have gotten pretty good at guessing where they went to school.
A while later, he pointed to another climber and said: “You went to Dartmouth, right?”
Again, that climber asked Donini how he knew his school.
Donini smiled, and said: “I travel a lot, and have met a lot of well-educated climbers. After that, it is pretty easy for me to guess where they went to school.”
A few drinks later Donini pointed to blahblah and said: “blahblah did you go to school at the University of Colorado?”
blahblah replied: “Maybe, but why do you think I went to C.U.?”
Donini replied: “It was an easy guess. I saw your class ring when you were picking your nose.”
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 18, 2018 - 09:24pm PT
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Apr 18, 2018 - 10:40pm PT
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As a matter of fact, Yes!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 12:39am PT
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Haha. All three of those guys were adulterers.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 12:47am PT
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Am I the only one who noticed that Trump’s lawyer is warning Donny that his fixer might flip?
“Flipping” only happens if there is something to flip.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2018 - 02:52am PT
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Floppy Don's fixer might flip.
Say that five times, really fast.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 04:08am PT
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I'm beginning to get a vague feeling TrumpCo's notion of a "witness protection program" might involve Russian neurotoxins. If it comes down to that then hopefully they're not as sloppy with them as everything else they touch.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 19, 2018 - 06:33am PT
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Looks like Hillary got a pass, while no stone is left unturned for The Donald. The source is conservative. But is the piece accurate?
The Politicization of the FBI
Over the past year, facts have emerged that suggest there was a plot by high-ranking FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) officials in the Obama administration, acting under color of law, to exonerate Hillary Clinton of federal crimes and then, if she lost the election, to frame Donald Trump and his campaign for colluding with Russia to steal the presidency. This conduct was not based on mere bias, as has been widely claimed, but rather on deeply felt animus toward Trump and his agenda.
In the course of this plot, FBI Director James Comey, U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, FBI Deputy Director of Counterintelligence Peter Strzok, Strzok’s paramour and FBI lawyer Lisa Page, FBI General Counsel James Baker, and DOJ senior official Bruce Ohr—perhaps among others—compromised federal law enforcement to such an extent that the American public is losing trust. A recent CBS News poll finds 48 percent of Americans believe that Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Trump-Russia collusion probe is “politically motivated,” a stunning conclusion. And 63 percent of polled voters in a Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll believe that the FBI withheld vital information from Congress about the Clinton and Russia collusion investigations.
I spent my early legal career as a federal prosecutor. I later supervised hundreds of prosecutors and prosecutions as a U.S. Attorney and as an Independent Counsel. I have never witnessed investigations so fraught with failure to fulfill the basic elements of a criminal probe as those conducted under James Comey. Not since former Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray deep-sixed evidence during Watergate has the head of the FBI been so discredited as Comey is now.
The Case of the Clinton Emails
The Hillary Clinton email scandal began in 2013 with the U.S. House of Representatives investigation into the attack on the American embassy in Benghazi, Libya, on September 11, 2012. It was during that investigation that accessing Secretary of State Clinton’s emails became an issue. But it wasn’t until The New York Times broke the story on March 2, 2015, that Clinton had a secret, personal server that things really took off.
Thousands of emails that the House at first requested, then subpoenaed, conveniently disappeared—remember those reports about BleachBit and the smashing of Clinton’s numerous phones with hammers? Clinton and her aides were, to say the least, not forthcoming. It was clearly time for the FBI and DOJ to act, using the legal tools at their disposal to secure the emails and other materials the House had subpoenaed. But that didn’t happen.
One tool at their disposal was the grand jury—the sine qua non of a criminal investigation. Grand juries are comprised of 16 to 23 citizens who hear a prosecutor’s case against an alleged criminal. The subject of the investigation is not present during the entire proceeding, which can last up to a year. A grand jury provides investigators with the authority to collect evidence by issuing subpoenas for documents and witnesses. FBI agents and prosecutors cannot themselves demand evidence. Only a grand jury can—or a court, in cases where a subpoena recipient refuses a grand jury’s command to provide documents or to testify.
Incredibly, FBI Director Comey and Attorney General Lynch refused to convene a grand jury during the Clinton investigation. Thus investigators had no authority to subpoena evidence or witnesses. Lacking leverage, Comey then injudiciously granted immunity to five Clinton aides in return for evidence that could have been obtained with a subpoena. Even when Clinton claimed 39 times during a July 2, 2016, interview—an interview led by disgraced FBI agent Peter Strzok—that she could not recall certain facts because of a head injury, Comey refused the case agents’ request to subpoena her medical records.
Comey claims he negotiated the immunity deals because of his concern about time. Yet the investigation was opened in the summer of 2015, nearly a year before he cut these deals. Compare this to the DOJ’s handling of four-star Marine General James E. Cartwright, who pleaded guilty in October 2016 to a false statement about leaking classified information to The New York Times. In that case, the DOJ bragged about its use of subpoenas and search warrants.
Not only was there no grand jury, the FBI never issued a search warrant—something it does when there is concern a person will destroy evidence. Clinton deleted half her emails and then claimed, under penalty of perjury, that she had turned over to the government all emails that “were or potentially were” work-related. The FBI later found email chains classified as “secret” or “confidential” that she had not turned over. Still no search warrant was issued.
Comey’s dereliction did not stop at the failure to utilize essential prosecutorial tools. He violated several rules that prosecutors consider sacrosanct:
Comey allowed one lawyer to represent four material witnesses, an arrangement ripe for the four to coordinate testimony.
After needlessly giving immunity to two lawyers representing Clinton, Comey permitted both to sit in on her July 2, 2016, FBI interview—a patent conflict. He claimed he could not control who sat in on the “voluntary” interview. That’s nonsense. He could have convened a grand jury, subpoenaed Clinton, and compelled her to appear and be questioned without a lawyer or else plead the Fifth Amendment.
Comey authorized the destruction of laptop computers that belonged to Clinton’s aides and were under congressional subpoena.
Comey ignored blatant evidence of culpability. It is ridiculous to the general public and risible to those who have security clearances for Clinton to claim she thought that “(c)” placed after paragraphs in her emails meant the material was in alphabetical order rather than meaning it was classified. If she thought (c) indicated alphabetical order, where were (a) and (b) on the documents? Clinton and her supporters touted her vast experience as a U.S. Senator and Secretary of State, positions requiring frequent use of classified information and presumably common sense. Yet neither experience nor common sense informed her decisions when handling classified materials.
Comey and the FBI never questioned Clinton about her public statements, which changed over time and were blatantly false. “I did not email classified information to anyone” morphed into “I did not email anything marked ‘classified,’” which morphed into the claim that (c) did not mean what it clearly meant. False and changing statements are presented to juries routinely by prosecutors as evidence of guilt.
Breaking DOJ protocols, violating the chain of command, and assuming an authority he never had, Comey usurped the role of the U.S. attorney general on July 5, 2016, when he announced that the case against Clinton was closed. He justified his actions saying that he no longer trusted Attorney General Lynch after her June 27, 2016, meeting with Bill Clinton on the tarmac at the Phoenix airport. This meeting took place at the height of the so-called investigation—just days before Peter Strzok interviewed Clinton on July 2. Thanks to the efforts of Judicial Watch to secure documents through the Freedom of Information Act, we now know that Comey was already drafting a letter exonerating Clinton in May 2016—prior to interviewing more than a dozen major witnesses. We also know that the FBI’s reaction to the impropriety of the tarmac meeting was not disgust, but rather anger at the person who leaked the fact of the meeting. “We need to find that guy” and bring him before a supervisor, stated one (name redacted) FBI agent. Another argued that the source should be banned from working security details. Not one email expressed concern over the meeting. An FBI director who truly had his trust shaken would have questioned the members of Lynch’s FBI security detail for the Arizona trip about how the meeting came to be. Comey didn’t bother.
Comey described Clinton’s handling of classified information as “extremely careless,” a clumsy attempt to avoid the legal language of “gross negligence” for criminal mishandling of classified information—and we later learned that Peter Strzok, again, was responsible for editing this language in Comey’s statement. But practically speaking, the terms are synonymous. Any judge would instruct a jury to consider “gross negligence” as “extremely careless” conduct.
Comey claimed that “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring the case against Clinton. I have spent many years investigating federal crimes, and I can tell you that a reasonable prosecutor would have utilized a grand jury, issued subpoenas and search warrants, and followed standard DOJ procedures for federal prosecutions. In short, Comey threw the case. He should have been fired long before he was.
In late spring 2016, just weeks prior to Comey’s July 5 press conference clearing Clinton of any crime, FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe ordered FBI agents in New York to shut down their investigation into the Clinton Foundation. Their objections were overruled. Sources have told me that McCabe also shut down an additional Clinton investigation. This is the McCabe who, while he was overseeing the Clinton email investigation, had a wife running for the Virginia State Senate and receiving more than $460,000 in campaign contributions from a longtime Clinton loyalist, Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe. Moreover, it was only after the news of Clinton’s private server became public in The New York Times that McAuliffe recruited McCabe’s wife to run for office. McCabe eventually recused himself from the Clinton probe, but that was one week before the 2016 election, after the decisions to clear Clinton and to pursue the Trump-Russia collusion investigation had already been made. So his recusal was meaningless.
In clearing legal impediments from Clinton’s path to the Democratic nomination, Comey and his senior staff thought they had helped Clinton clinch the presidency. Their actions put an end to a decades-long tradition of non-political federal law enforcement.
The Case of Trump-Russia Collusion
Rumors of collusion with Russia by Trump or the Trump campaign surfaced during the primaries in 2015, but gained in strength soon after Trump secured the Republican nomination in July 2016. Thanks to DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz, we now know that high-level FBI officials were involved in promoting these rumors. Among Horowitz’s discoveries were text messages between FBI Deputy Director of Counterintelligence Peter Strzok and FBI lawyer Lisa Page that suggest an illegal plan to utilize law enforcement to frame Trump. The most revealing exchange we know of took place on August 15, 2016. Concerned about the outcome of the election, Strzok wrote:
I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in [Andrew McCabe’s] office—that there’s no way [Trump] gets elected—but I’m afraid we can’t take that risk. It’s like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you’re 40.
No amount of sugar coating or post hoc explanation of this and other texts can conceal the couple’s animus against Trump and support for Clinton. Strzok’s messages illustrate his commitment to Clinton’s victory and Trump’s defeat or, if Trump won, to an “insurance policy.”
The term “insurance policy” obviously refers to the Trump-Russia collusion investigation, which to this day remains a probe with no underlying crime. This is not the talk of professional investigators, but of corrupt agents who have created two standards of justice based on their political leanings. It looks like a reprise of the schemes undertaken during an earlier era, under FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, that led to the creation of the Church Committee—a committee on which I served, and which tried to reform the FBI to prevent it from meddling in domestic politics.
At the heart of the Russia collusion scheme is the FBI’s utilization of a document paid for by the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee. Called the Steele Dossier because it was written by former British MI6 officer Christopher Steele, this document contains unsubstantiated information designed to taint Trump and his presidency. While Clinton partisans point out that candidate Clinton never referred to the Steele Dossier in her speeches, the fact is that she did not have to—the FBI hierarchy was doing it for her! Indeed, FBI General Counsel James Baker was recently reassigned because of his having leaked information about the Steele Dossier to the magazine Mother Jones.
Not one claim concerning Trump in the Steele Dossier has ever been verified by the FBI, according to Andrew McCabe himself in recent testimony to the House Intelligence Committee. The only confirmed fact is unsurprising: former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page traveled to Moscow on his own dime and met with various Russians—all perfectly legal.
Comey and then-CIA Director John Brennan laundered the Steele Dossier through the U.S. intelligence community to give it an aura of credibility and get it to the press. It was also used by the FBI and senior DOJ officials to secure wiretap warrants from a secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court. Then its contents, via court-authorized FISA warrants, were used to justify the illegal unmasking of the identities of wiretapped Trump officials. The contents of these National Security Agency intercepts were put on spreadsheets and presented to members of President Obama’s National Security Council (NSC)—specifically Susan Rice and Ben Rhodes—and subsequently leaked to the press. According to former NSC staff, President Obama himself read the FISA intercepts of Trump campaign personnel. Unsurprisingly, there was no request for a leak investigation from either the FBI or the DOJ.
In sum, the FBI and DOJ employed unverified salacious allegations contained in a political opposition research document to obtain court-sanctioned wiretaps, and then leaked the contents of the wiretaps and the identities of political opponents. This was a complex criminal plot worthy of Jason Bourne.
The Pall Over the Special Counsel and the FBI
Layered over this debacle is a special counsel investigation unfettered by rules or law. Not surprisingly, James Comey triggered the special counsel’s appointment—and he did so by design. According to Comey’s testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee, having been fired on May 9, 2017, he leaked official documents to his friend, Columbia Law School professor Daniel Richman, with the specific intent that Richman would leak them to the press. Reportage on that leak is what led Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to appoint Robert Mueller—a former FBI director and Comey’s good friend—as special counsel to investigate allegations of Trump-Russia collusion.
Mueller’s reputation has been damaged by a series of decisions that violate the ethical rules of appearances. For instance, he hired Democratic partisans as lawyers for the probe: Andrew Weissmann, who donated to Clinton and praised Acting Attorney General Sally Yates for disobeying Trump’s lawful Presidential Order regarding a travel ban for residents of certain nations that harbor terrorists; Jeannie Rhee, who donated to Clinton and represented Ben Rhodes in the email probe and the Clinton Foundation investigation; and Aaron Zebley, who represented Clinton IT staffer Justin Cooper in the email server probe.
Mueller also staged a pre-dawn raid with weapons drawn on the home of Paul Manafort, rousing Manafort and his wife from their bed—a tactic customarily reserved for terrorists and drug dealers. Manafort has subsequently been indicted for financial crimes that antedate his campaign work for Trump and that have nothing to do with Russia collusion.
Then there’s the fact that when Mueller removed Strzok from the investigation in July 2017, he didn’t tell anyone. The removal and its causes were uncovered by DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz. Why was such vital information concealed from the public? It is not, as is often claimed now, that Strzok was a minor figure. All the major decisions regarding both the Clinton and the Trump-Russia collusion investigations had been made under Strzok.
Significantly, Strzok also led the interview of General Michael Flynn that ended in Flynn pleading guilty to making false statements to the FBI. It is important to recall that Flynn’s FBI interview was not conducted under the authority of the special counsel, but under that of Comey and McCabe. It took place during Inauguration week in January 2017. Flynn had met with the same agents the day before regarding security clearances. McCabe called Flynn and asked if agents could come to the White House. Flynn agreed, assuming it was about personnel. It was not.
Flynn had been overheard on a FISA wiretap talking to Russia’s Ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak. There was nothing criminal or even unusual about the fact of such discussion. Flynn was on the Trump transition team and was a federal employee as the President-Elect’s national security advisor. It was his job to be talking to foreign leaders. Flynn was not charged with regard to anything said during his conversation with Kislyak. So why was the FBI interrogating Flynn about legal conduct? What more did the FBI need to know? I am told by sources that when Flynn’s indictment was announced, McCabe was on a video conference call—cheering!
Compare the FBI’s treatment of Flynn to its treatment of Paul Combetta, the technician who used a program called BleachBit to destroy thousands of emails on Hillary Clinton’s computer. This destruction of evidence took place after a committee of the U.S. House of Representatives issued letters directing that all emails be preserved and subpoenaing them. Combetta first lied to the FBI, claiming he did not recall deleting anything. After being rewarded with immunity, Combetta recalled destroying the emails—but he could not recall anyone directing him to do so.
The word in Washington is that Flynn pleaded guilty to take pressure off his son, who was also a subject of Mueller’s investigation. Always the soldier. But those who questioned Flynn that day did not cover themselves with law enforcement glory. Led by Strzok, they grilled Flynn about facts that they already knew and that they knew did not constitute a crime. They besmirched the reputation of federal law enforcement by their role in a scheme to destroy a duly elected president and his appointees.
A pall hangs over Mueller, and a pall hangs over the DOJ. But the darkest pall hangs over the FBI, America’s premier federal law enforcement agency, which since the demise of J. Edgar Hoover has been steadfast in steering clear of politics. Even during L. Patrick Gray’s brief tenure as acting director during Watergate, it was not the FBI but Gray personally who was implicated. The current scandal pervades the Bureau. It spans from Director Comey to Deputy Director McCabe to General Counsel Baker. It spread to counterintelligence via Peter Strzok. When line agents complained about the misconduct, McCabe retaliated by placing them under investigation for leaking information.
From the outset of this scandal, I have considered Comey a dirty cop. His unfailing commitment to himself above all else is of a pattern. Throughout his career, Comey has continually portrayed himself as Thomas Becket, fighting against institutional corruption—even where none exists. Stories abound of his routine retort to anyone who disagreed with him (not an unusual happening when lawyers gather) during his tenure as deputy attorney general under President George W. Bush. “Your moral compass is askew,” he would say. This self-righteousness led agents to refer to him as “The Cardinal.” Comey is no Thomas Becket—he is Henry II.
A great disservice has been done to the dedicated men and women of the FBI by Comey and his seventh floor henchmen. A grand jury probe is long overdue. Inspector General Horowitz is an honest man, but he cannot convene a grand jury. We need one now. We need our FBI back.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-politicization-of-the-fbi/
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 19, 2018 - 06:38am PT
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Floppy Don's fixer might flip.
The real-time consequences of having loyalty to no-one but yourself.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Apr 19, 2018 - 07:09am PT
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EdwardT wrote: “Looks like Hillary got a pass, while no stone is left unturned for The Donald. The source is conservative. But is the piece accurate?”
“looks like” are the key words. and they are key in this case because despite the premise of the title of this whole thread and a bunch of the “conclusions” as per the “guilt” of donald trump made by some of those on the raving left: the fat lady, at this point, has not sung.
and if you’ve followed this closely mueller himself has said that some of what is being reported by msm re russian collusion is false.
as i’ve said repeatedly, this whole emotional hope that trump will be deposed due to criminal wrongdoing rather than good ole compelling alternative policy and leadership being presented by the democrats, and then democratically elected in, is exactly the same as the right’s focus on BEGHAZI1!1!1!1!! for months and months on end before being ultimately disappointed and then showing up to govern with a plan that amounts to the doubling down on very recently and very failed policies [tax cuts, giant deficits, increased gov’t bloat through increased defence spending, etc].
ie. the parallels between the clinton/benghazi investigation and the trump/russia investigation are far more similar than they are different. in the same way, both cases started with possibly worthy of investigation but at the same time, initially at first, for the most part tenuous and dubious political claims [“hillary’s negligence killed servicemen” vs “trump wouldn’t have won without russian collusion”] but then quickly moved into new and more salacious areas [flawed data management, deleted emails vs stormy davis, corrupt associates] as the investigations progressed..
what we don’t know at this point is where all of this ends on the trump end. maybe he will get caught and convicted of something substantial. until it happens all of the energy the left puts into focusing their energy into assuming that that is a done deal is as wasted as all of the energy that the right put into assuming that crooked hillary was going to get locked up.
there is however, at least one very important difference. while hillary and her ilk may very well have attempted to undermine the “beghazi and its derivative” investigations from behind the scenes, publicly at least, she acted as if she respected the process.
otoh, trump has done everything in his power to publicly denigrate and politicize the fbi’s investigations into him.
and so is there a difference in the investigations? is this most recent version different than the clintonian version?
for sure: no sitting elected official that i can recall ever seeing in my lifetime has so blatantly and completely disrespectfully attempted to preemptively cast shade on what should be an independent investigation.
and if you don’t think folks in the fbi are human and this denigration doesn’t add a bit of fuel to their fire than one makes a massive strategic mistake.
and from that perspective, trump is either the buffoon to end all buffoons... or there is something substantial being hidden.
as always: time will tell what actually happens.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Looks like Hillary got a pass, while no stone is left unturned for The Donald.
The investigation into Hillarys emails was reopened weeks before the election, likely contributing to or causing her very narrow loss. Any talk of the FBI working for her and against Disgraceful Donald ends right there. No need to read a long biased piece.
And there's the nature of the crimes. Hillary may have tried to keep her communications secret. DD may have colluded with an enemy state to steal the election from the people of the US. Which is more serious ?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2018 - 11:29am PT
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On The Deficit, GOP Has Been Playing Us All For Suckers
For the past 16 months, House and Senate Republicans and the Trump administration have been operating a huge scam on the federal budget.
FORBES.COM
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 19, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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what we don’t know at this point is where all of this ends on the trump end. maybe he will get caught and convicted of something substantial. until it happens all of the energy the left puts into focusing their energy into assuming that that is a done deal is as wasted as all of the energy that the right put into assuming that crooked hillary was going to get locked up.
there is however, at least one very important difference. while hillary and her ilk may very well have attempted to undermine the “beghazi and its derivative” investigations from behind the scenes, publicly at least, she acted as if she respected the process.
otoh, trump has done everything in his power to publicly denigrate and politicize the fbi’s investigations into him.
and so is there a difference in the investigations? is this most recent version different than the clintonian version?
for sure: no sitting elected official that i can recall ever seeing in my lifetime has so blatantly and completely disrespectfully attempted to preemptively cast shade on what should be an independent investigation.
Has it occurred to you that if the left hadn't made a really, really big deal out of this, Trump might have already gotten rid of Mueller in his own version of Nixon's Saturday night massacre?
Regarding whether Trump personally colluded with Russia isn't at all clear and I'm patiently waiting for the Mueller report to shed light on that.
But impeachment is a political process conducted by congress. The founding fathers could have made it a criminal matter by putting the Supreme Court in charge, but they didn't. You don't have to have a unanimous vote of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to impeach.
I think there are already sufficient grounds for impeachment:
Based on Comey's testimony under oath and Trump's own statements, I think the firing of Comey was a misguided and ineffective attempt to obstruct justice.
Trumps business/financial conflicts of interest would also be grounds for impeachment. With the emolument clause, the founders were clearly worried money. Unfortunately, it never occurred to them that a billionare president might continue to have a billion dollar company continue to operate around the world that is ready made for influence buying. But impeaching Trump for his financial conflicts is within the spirit of the emolument clause. And again, this only requires a political finding, it is not a beyond a reasonable doubt criminal finding.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
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The founding fathers could have made it a criminal matter by putting the Supreme Court in charge, but they didn't.
Actually they did.
The impeachment trial is presided over by the Chief Justice of SCOTUS.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 19, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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Regarding whether Trump personally colluded with Russia isn't at all clear and I'm patiently waiting for the Mueller report to shed light on that
. . .
Trumps business/financial conflicts of interest would also be grounds for impeachment. With the emolument clause, the founders were clearly worried money. Unfortunately, it never occurred to them that a billionare president might continue to have a billion dollar company continue to operate around the world that is ready made for influence buying. But impeaching Trump for his financial conflicts is within the spirit of the emolument clause. And again, this only requires a political finding, it is not a beyond a reasonable doubt criminal finding.
Trump personally colluding with Russia is not "at all clear" in the sense that it isn't clear if Bill Clinton personally murdered Vince Foster, or if the moon landings were faked, or if what appears to be reality is all a figment of your imagination. Some people sincerely believe all of the foregoing, and it's not really easy to prove them wrong. Nevertheless, there is absolutely no credible evidence that Trump "personally colluded with Russia," or even incredible evidence really. It's just complete silliness. (Not to say Trump isn't guilty of other stuff, or that Russian didn't meddle in the election, but those are separate issues.)
Regarding the so-called emoluments, you're ass backwards. Many of the early presidents were wealthy landowners with extensive business dealings that undoubtedly involved selling goods to whoever would buy them, including foreign governments. Do you think it was an "emolument" if Washington sold grain to the British Crown?
What the founders likely never considered was that there would arise a class of people who have no personal business experience whatsoever because they are professional politicians, but who would nevertheless amass great fortunes from their "profession." Look at the net worth of the Clintons. Ask where that money came from. And you think the problem with our politicians is that very rarely outsiders who are legitimate business people may have arms-length business dealings with foreigners?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 19, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
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"all of the energy that the right put into assuming that hillary was going to get locked up."
The Repub strategy worked. Spray enough constant lies about Benquazi and emails and eventually they convinced enough morons to vote for a crooked con man, a man who is 1000 times as crooked as the Clintons, a shyster whose "nonprofits" are a profit making scam. (Sidenote - where is the repub witchhunt due to the 4 killed soldiers in Niger? answer - based on previous Niger experience with the crooked scooter libby crime gang, it's all Hillary's fault.)
So we have learned, based on Repubs strategy success for the last 30 years, that the key to success is a constant spray of media attacks, propaganda, and fabricated conspiracy myths.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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Do you think it was an "emolument" if Washington sold grain to the British Crown?
Red herring.
Never happened.
No king, prince, or foreign power offered Washington a title or emolument but France. They offered a title after he was president. He declined.
George III would have been the last guy to do it. something about rebels and hard feelings, which didn’t end until 1814 after Washington was dead and III was declared insane.
As President, GW declined to be called “ his highness”-
And Disregarding that the crown wasnt involved in grain trade ( they issued licenses-much easier than messy commerce), Shipping’s expensive, which is why Washington was the biggest distiller in the Naton. Booze is a great reducer of bulk.
And he didn’t open his distillery until 1797 after he served, so it didn’t affect his decisions in the Whiskey rebelión.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
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Red herring.
Never happened.
No king, prince, or foreign power offered Washington a title or emolument but France. They offered a title after he was president. He declined.
Not red herring, unless you've studied the business dealings of the early presidents and concluded that none of them ever conducted business with any foreign governments (not just UK--that's actually a red herring). Have you done that?
And to my knowledge, no prince, or foreign power offered Trump a title or "emolument" in the normal sense of the word (if that word really has a normal sense) so that's a bit of a red herring too.
Face it: this notion that a president's legitimate, arm's length business dealings are any sort of an "emolument" is just nonsense.
It is an emolument if foreign governments, e.g., foreign libraries, bought copies of the Clintons' and Obamas' books?
Edit:
And look how ridiculous Comey's "evidence" of Trump collusion is:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/19/politics/james-comey-jake-tapper-cnntv/index.html
Basically that Trump keeps bringing it up and didn't criticize Putin.
So by that logic, just accuse someone of committing some ridiculous crime in cahoots with a person your target likes. When the target denies the ridiculous crime and doesn't start criticizing the person he likes, I suppose he just might be guilty, according to Comey's logic.
(And of course it's possible whenever you make up a ridiculous accusation about someone, they could actually be guilty of it. Maybe Hillary is in cahoots with a child abuse ring in the basement of a Washington pizzeria, they just got the wrong pizzeria?)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
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don't ya just hate it when pesky facts get in the way of what you really want to believe?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
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Well, Norton, that works both ways, doesn’t it? To wit, if Trump pulls off the de-nuking of Lil Phatty I’ve no doubt the libtards will decry it as fake news.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 19, 2018 - 03:00pm PT
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More than likely Lil Phatty will have Trump peed on.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 03:23pm PT
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Lil Phatty is already pissing on Trump - he just doesn't know it.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 19, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
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wow, you really DID vote for Trump, didn't you?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 19, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
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Joe and Gary, I hate having to reflect upon the difficulty that being a good liberal requires.
I'm not a liberal, I'm too far to the left for that. Ask Reilly!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 19, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
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Trump doesn't need hookers....Rocket Man will give up his missle when Trump shows with his hookers..
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Apr 19, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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When libs squirm, you know President Trump is doing something right.
The marxist attitudes here are far from ever taking root in a free society but, rant on, your audience of 50 is enthralled.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 19, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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blahblah! You are doing one helleva job of defending your insane, offensive, & hopelessly inept, President Trump!
I'm impressed that you even can dig down to the lowest right-wing conspiracy paranoid fantasy & attempt to give it new life.
(And of course it's possible whenever you make up a ridiculous accusation about someone, they could actually be guilty of it. Maybe Hillary is in cahoots with a child abuse ring in the basement of a Washington pizzeria, they just got the wrong pizzeria?)
What a guy you must be!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 19, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Apr 19, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
When libs squirm, you know President Trump is doing something right.
The marxist attitudes here are far from ever taking root in a free society
Revenge on the libtards must be one of the greatest satisfactions you conservatives can achieve,
nothing could be better than upping the division by subjecting suffering on the majority, right pud?
So liberals are Marxist's???
Can you provide a link that proves to me that I'm a Marxist, or are you just making wild insinuations like the usual idiot conservatives fed on a batch BS propaganda..
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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Re: North Korea...
The way this is going to go is Kim will trade off this list of denuclearization steps in a very protracted manner: stop ballistic missile tests, stop underground weapons tests, stop producing fissile material, stop producing missiles and warheads, dismantle and destroy nuclear warheads, export fissile material to China/Russia/U.S., and dismantle ballistic missiles. Note that the first five of those cost Kim absolutely nothing and are good for a couple of years of negotiating by themselves.
And make no mistake, Kim is going to be looking for matching movement from everyone each step of the way. He'll want a formal recognition of N. Korea by the U.S., a full peace accord with both the U.S. and S. Korea, all sanctions lifted, a significant drawdown of U.S. forces on the peninsula, and the full withdrawal of ballistic missile defense capabilities from the peninsula (for the Chinese) at a minimum.
The problem is that the odds of TrumpCo giving them all that is slim to none, so I don't have high expectations beyond Kim stalling while holding out the appearance of willing acquiescence as he always does. And the result of not cutting a deal is TrumpCo will look like idiots for engaging over a protracted period and getting nothing to show for it. Nothing but the status quo that is (and it will only be that if those first five things on the list are on-site verified).
Trump is getting played.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
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And to my knowledge, no prince, or foreign power offered Trump a title or "emolument" in the normal sense of the word (if that word really has a normal sense) so that's a bit of a red herring too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americastrump/us-politics/saudi-arabia-donald-trump-83-gifts-us-president-portrait-meeting-swords-daggers-a7930496.html
And to my knowledge, no prince, or foreign power offered Trump a title or "emolument" in the normal sense of the word (if that word really has a normal sense) so that's a bit of a red herring too.
Too easy
Thank goodness he didn’t bow to a king.
Trumps daughter got a hundred MILLION dollars from the King in exchange for a hundred billion in arms,
And there is this:
https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2017/05/28/saudi-king-salman-gifts-1-2-billion-items-to-trump/
so yeah, in the normal sense of the word, you are correct.
Trumps parting words were. ” see you next year!”
But probably not for long. We will soon find why he is Putin’s lap dog.
It is an emolument if foreign governments, e.g., foreign libraries, bought copies of the Clintons' and Obamas' books?
By law, Not if the amount Obama got came to less than $375. That’s 3.75 hundred, not a hundred million or Billion. maybe thats too subtle to grasp.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 20, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 19, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
So liberals are Marxist's???
Can you provide a link that proves to me that I'm a Marxist, or are you just making wild insinuations like the usual idiot conservatives fed on a batch BS propaganda..
Where did he claim you (specifically) were a Marxist?
Derp
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2018 - 08:51am PT
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healyj: Trump is getting played.
According to you, but at least he is playing, and well enough that substantive talks appear imminent. No president in 60 years has done this. And if he achieves de-nuking Lil Phatty you would be so churlish as to decry it because he gave something in return? How far thinking of you.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 20, 2018 - 08:56am PT
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He's not going to de-nuke'em - doesn't have enough time left in his presidency.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 20, 2018 - 09:00am PT
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The problem is that the odds of TrumpCo giving them all that is slim to none, so I don't have high expectations beyond Kim stalling while holding out the appearance of willing acquiescence as he always does. And the result of not cutting a deal is TrumpCo will look like idiots for engaging over a protracted period and getting nothing to show for it. Nothing but the status quo that is (and it will only be that if those first five things on the list are on-site verified).
Trump is getting played.
Kim is going to make a fool out of trump.
Not hard to do.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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Floppy Don apparently hasn't treated his fixer very well. Over the years, they've had a dysfunctional codependent relationship, with Trump abusing Cohen for his own amusement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/politics/trump-michael-cohen.html
Trump's continual mistreatment of Michael Cohen was partly because he isn't Roy Cohn, Trump's notoriously corrupt dirty trickster from the 1980s.
When grandma breaks wind, we beat the dog.
Floppy Don, explaining how it's done in the Trump household
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 20, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
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That KC Fireman story is waaaay f*cked up
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
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It's a known fact here that brainwashed Tom and Fried Craig are the sheeple trying to recruit more sheeple.
The more sheeple the better for these guys so they can masquerade their bullsh!t as doing something intelligent.
This is why these clowns focus exclusively on their puppet leader TRump.
These loons know nothing beyond except more brainwashed horsesh!t from their brainwashed main loon media .....
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
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LMAO ..... ha ha ha good one ...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 20, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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pick a target and attack them personally
call em out by name and tell them how stupid they are
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
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WVB, if the topic of the forum is Trump, shouldn't he be the primary focus?
Anyway, here's a story from The Failing With Only Three Pulitzers New York Times.
It's a great story that's mostly about the DNC, Trump's campaign staff, Russian officials, and Wikileaks. The best part is that the lawsuit is based only on what has been publicly revealed about Russian interference in the election. It's concussive enough, right now, to spin Trump around on his axis a few times.
The DNC lawyers will be able to amend their complaint later, to present additional information, such as any Mueller and the Southern District Court reveal to the public as those situations proceed.
“Rather than report these repeated messages that Russia intended to interfere with U.S. elections, the Trump campaign and its agents gleefully welcomed Russia’s help,” the lawsuit said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/politics/dnc-russia-trump-lawsuit.html
REMEMBER: OJ was acquitted in a criminal trial, but Ron Goldman's family prevailed in a civil trial based predominantly on the same evidence.
Trump's national energy policy came from a Steam Punk comic book he found in Baron's room.
Energy dominance, rather than independence, does seem to be an unusual policy shift. Maybe he believes Americans should be the Warriors of the Wasteland.
Energy dominance, by the way, is what thermonuclear weaponry is all about: maximum energy release capability.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 20, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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TDS? Total Dissolved Solids?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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WVB,
Here's proof you had a good point before:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/technology/att-verizon-investigate-esim.html
WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has opened an antitrust investigation into potential coordination by AT&T, Verizon and a telecommunications standards organization to hinder consumers from easily switching wireless carriers.
Politards shouldn't just be concerned about DT Jr. "gleefully welcoming" foreign interference in a presidential election.
Politards should also be concerned that the two biggest wireless phone carriers are trying a new tactic of illegal vendor lock-in. AT&T and Verizon are attempting, again, to lock customers' phones so they can't switch carriers.
Politards are video gamers playing Whack-A-Mole against all manner of rapacious sordidians. It's an age-old game, and it's not going to end any time soon.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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Here's a Total Dissolved Solids diversion . . . . .
Reverse osmosis purification produces waste brine, that for inland areas (not seawater input) mostly contains metal oxides like calcium carbonate as excessive dissolved solids in a super-saturated solution.
What if waste brine, like that, was used in a concrete mix? Would that improve the concrete?
Maybe the Ancient Roman knew to boil off their mineral-rich water before mixing it into their concrete. Roman concrete has proven to be very durable, and better than most of the sidewalks I've seen.
Yes. Their basic mix was to burn limestone to obtain calcium oxide, and then mix it with magic volcanic sand (reactive silica) and water. Their magic sand originally came from Pozzuoli, on the Bay of Naples, downhill from Mount Vesuvius, and right down now the road from Pompeii.
Empirically (as in Empire?) they learned over time to refine their concrete to a very high quality.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Yeah, chloride attack on concrete is no joke. Roads that have not been sealed from road salt get destroyed rapidly.
Mimicing the Roman Mix by adding fly ash from coal-fired powerplants has been shown to greatly improve durability of portland cement concrete, and improve chloride resistance. The downside is it typically takes longer to cure, which can increase costs, especially for something like a skyscraper whose lower layers must take extra time to cure, in order to support a next layer.
Somewhere, in one of my hard drives, is a story about a company who moved their slip-forms too quickly, week-to-week, and a lower layer failed, bringing down the tower.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 20, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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Maybe.
Apparently the Romans used volcanic ash and lime instead of portland cement. The seawater did some unique crystallizing thingy over time.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Steel didn't become cheap enough for building construction until the invention of the Besemer Furnace. Bronze is still too expensive, except as decorative trim.
One big difference of the Roman Concrete, compared to today's OPC, is that it had a lower PH. In other words, it was not as alkaline. This is true, today, of concrete mixes that substitute some of the OPC for fly-ash, activated kaolin clay, or similar pozzolans additives.
Alkalinity in OPC is so aggressive, it can destroy fiberglass, bamboo, or other intended reinforcements. Zirconia fiberglass apparently will work, but that is not the same thing as what they make surfboards and Corvettes from. Steel is protected from corrosion, and as a bonus, the thermal expansion coefficient of concrete and steel is very similar, to minimize thermal stresses.
The Romans might have been able to get away with, say, horsehair, to at least get some early high strength.
For a civilization that didn't have access to algebra, or even the concept of a mathematical zero, they were pretty good sometimes.
By about 65 A.D., urine was a valuable industrial chemical in Rome. The Emperor Vespasian taxed it, to ensure it wouldn't just be discarded. Today, in Florence, an outdoor urinal very close to the Museo Uzzizi is called a Vespasiano.
Urine, back then, was used for retting wool. And, I would not be surprised to learn they also put it in their concrete. Have you ever seen a pee bottle that developed crystalline deposits?
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Apr 20, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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LMAO! Does he need less beer? or more grammar crackers?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 20, 2018 - 08:50pm PT
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oh thanks anyway but I will keep repeating it
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 20, 2018 - 09:25pm PT
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"This prosecutor can come after me with everything she's got, but as all faithful people know: in time comes the truth. And the time for truth is coming,"
Not dj Trump
He be spinnin' anuther tune
But who is this unmasked man
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
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OKAY. I think I now understand . . . .
Trump, when he did the Trump Tower, he was a genius. That the the first all-concrete skyscraper in NYC, and maybe elsewhere. A steel frame, with non-bearing infill walls seems kinda stupid. A concrete structure - walls and all - has its weight beneficially supporting itself. There is almost no lazy material in the Trump Tower. The recent fire in Trump Tower didn't spread, because the structure itself is inherently fire-resistant. Trump was a genius about how to build that tower. He's followed that idea with his other buildings. I think most, if not all, have been all-concrete.
Trump knows buildings.
And, Bo knows baseball. But, Michael Jordan? Not so much.
Trump says he wants more coal-fired power plants. Maybe, he wants the fly-ash waste from those power plants. He knows that fly-ash is cheaper than silica fume, but almost as good for producing very strong concrete.
Trump's big picture is not wrong, in that respect.
But, maybe he's fixated on another great tower, and he's not thinking about the other, deleterious aspects of coal.
#MixedBag
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 20, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
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Trump may get more chances to study concrete and re-enforcing bar from inside if Mueller can connect a few more dots...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 11:42pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
dis·trac·tion
dəˈstrakSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a thing that prevents someone from giving full attention to something else.
"the company found passenger travel a distraction from the main business of moving freight"
synonyms: diversion, interruption, disturbance, interference, hindrance
"a distraction from the real issues"
2.
extreme agitation of the mind or emotions.
"he knew she was nervous by her uncharacteristic air of distraction"
Trump, or his people, did this to himself. I would be surprised to learn that Trump was not apprised of what was happening, at the time, and how it would benefit him.
But, I would not be surprised to read a Twitter that Trump says he had no idea of what was going on.
Trump's grand conspiracy theory (Witch Hunt + NO COLLUSION = Fake News) is very close to going fully "Floppy Don" on Twitter: "Colluding Jared never told me anything. It was him. Not me. #JaredToJail #MTGA".
This shift, with a single midnight Tweet, will throw the blame at "a debt-ridden dolt I don't even know, who is losing his building, and who has never been married to my daughters."
("Dolt" is climbing related . . . . . . )
Trump may get more chances to study concrete and re-enforcing bar from inside if Mueller can connect a few more dots...
AH, RIGHT THERE.
BUT, IT'S TOO MUCH . . . . . DON'T KILL THE OLD GUYS, MAKING US LAUGH TOO HARD.
THIS THING IS NOT GOING AWAY.
I LIVED THROUGH WATERGATE, AND I WILL LIVE THOUGH THIS.
THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE VERY GOOD AT WHAT THEY ESTABLISHED FOR OUR GOVERNMENT.
IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THOMAS JEFFERSON KNOWING THAT A GUY LIKE TRUMP WOULD ARRIVE SOME DAY.
BUT, THE FOUNDING FATHERS LOOKED BACK, AT THAT TIME, AND REMEMBERED THEIR HISTORY: CALIGULA.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 02:14am PT
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A grasp, for absolute power.
A degenerate sex-addict invoking Elagabalus.
And, became emperor, initiating a reign remembered mainly for sex scandals . . . . .
Multiple incidences of his paying off women whom he has despoiled.
A grasp, for absolute power, as if he were a GOD.
A grasp, for absolute power, with lies and . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
We didn't vote for him, because he was morally perfect. We voted for him, because we liked what he said.
Trump, here, has to answer for some things:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 21, 2018 - 06:12am PT
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BUT, THE FOUNDING FATHERS LOOKED BACK, AT THAT TIME, AND REMEMBERED THEIR HISTORY: CALIGULA.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 21, 2018 - 09:09am PT
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tRump probably doesn't know he is a puppet. He thinks he is a real boy. They figured out early on they better not tell him anything because he can't keep his mouth shut and he really isn't that smart.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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Ditsy Davos will probably order national textbooks to teach about welfare mothers living for free in Holocaust Centers, and demand that students be taught a "balanced view" about the use of Xyklon-B gas to exterminate inferior people.
Ditsy's brother, Eric Prince, used his inherited fortune to assemble a number of mercenary armies that have committed war crimes.
The Texas slavery school assignment was not an isolated incident. There have been multiple similar incidents. Not surprisingly, they have occurred in Trump-centric states.
A school in Phoenix, Arizona, home to right-wing convicted criminal sheriff Joe Arapaio (whom Trump pardoned after he violated citizens' civil rights), was found to have offered a slavery role-playing game to students.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/11/slavery-simulation-game/752997001/
In Wisconsin, whose GOP governor is Ayn Rand super-fan Scott Walker, the charter school curriculum includes a lesson about the goodness of slavery.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/10/slavery-homework-assignment/1022098001/
A South Carolina elementary school assignment had students pretend they were members of the Ku Klux Klan.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/09/19/s-c-teacher-administrative-leave-after-kkk-themed-homework-assignment/680107001/
Ditsy Davos is pleading for the DOE to be excused from civil rights lawsuits, claiming it is "inefficient" for the department to abide by the law.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/politics/devos-education-department-civil-rights.html
What little brain power she exhibits sounds like this:
There have been so many civil rights violations, of a similar type, that dealing with them would be an inefficient use of department resources. Therefore, the department's position is that no violations have occurred.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 22, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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Comey, Republican, Hated Hillary and was one reason her vote total was lower. Never told Congress about Trump's Russian collusion until after the election.
Mueller, Republican, Head of the FBI under Bush.
Rosenstein, Republican, Appointed by Trump.
Judge who approved FBI raid on Cohen, Appointed by Trump.
Flynn, Guilty of lying about his collusion with Russia
Gates, ditto
Papadopolsis, ditto
all now flipped and talking to Mueller
Pictures of Russians in the oval office, Trump talking to Putin in private, stopping the sanctions, Sessions colluding with Russians, Donny Jr., Jarred, huge money from Russia to the NRA
DNC e-mails, hacked by Russia, released by wikilinks, Trump is collusion with wikilinks "I Love Wikilinks!!"
Cohen will flip to avoid 30 years of jail time
It's just a matter of time before Mueller comes to Congress and presents his findings, Trump will resign and blame everyone except himself, say he was innocent of everything, in other words crank to lying BS to 11, the Nazi followers will go nuts
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
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Trump didn't attend the funeral for Barbara Bush.
Trump said that his security detail would have overwhelmed the event. Apparently Secret Service agents for five presidents, instead of the four who attended, would have been too much.
Trump also said he was staying away "out of respect to the Bush family". Trump has been so uncivilized and verbally abusive to Barbara's son Jeb, a physical altercation at the emotional event would have been inevitable.
Melania Trump attended the services, and posed for this newly famous photograph. Melania used the occasion to step out with her new GFF. #MelaniaReadyToMoveOn #YouGoGrrrrrlFren
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
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What an insult. I have more class in my little finger than this 'President' has in his entire bloated body; guess he really needed to golf.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Apr 22, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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There was a movie? With a teen heart-throb?
But that was 2009.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
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The date on the movie poster below is 1994.
Marla Maples plays a teenage heart-throb.
Donald Trump plays a piece of throbbing gristle.
A raucous hatch of human cicadas - GOP hopefuls - are making the same awful noises that Trump makes. The 2018 candidates are acting just like Trump, to the point of one calling his Republican opponent "Lyin' Todd".
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/22/us/politics/trump-republican-party.html
Their flawed election strategy is to hook their campaign wagons to a nearly dead horse. Which, I applaud. I hope more GOP candidates do this. Trump & Co. will implode right before the election, and they'll all go down together.
Hannity Insanity called for a wall.
Hannity Insanity had a great fall.
All of Trump's Cohens,
and all of Trump's lies,
Couldn't put Hannity Insanity back on the air again.
These GOP guys are something else.
"Lyin' Todd" Rokita is falsely and fraudulently declaring that Trump has endorsed him for Senate. In real life, Trump has angrily rebuked and denounced Rokita, and has ordered the removal of Rokita's campaign signs.
When asked if Rokita will comply with Trump's order, his representative told the IndyStar newspaper, "We do not comment on yard sign strategy."
Here's the best part:
Rokita claims the signs are accurate, and neither deceptive nor fraudulent.
He says the signs indicate that he is endorsed by Trump-Pence 2016 Indiana Team Leaders. In other words, the signs indicate that Rokita is endorsed by certain Indiana campaign workers.
Rokita claims the signs don't indicate that he is endorsed by Trump.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/18/trump-campaign-rebukes-todd-rokita-over-yard-signs/527332002/
Normally, president's don't attend First Ladies' funerals. But, Barbara Bush was also a First Grandlady. And, Trump and Melania were invited. And, Melania showed up with a date.
Trump's behavior and excuses are just weird, that's all. Nobody is claiming (yet) that he's the son of the devil.
Trump is unprecedentedly unpresidential. His absence from that photo proves it.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 23, 2018 - 10:30am PT
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Trump didn't attend the funeral for Barbara Bush.
Trump said that his security detail would have overwhelmed the event. Apparently Secret Service agents for five presidents, instead of the four who attended, would have been too much.
Trump also said he was staying away "out of respect to the Bush family". Trump has been so uncivilized and verbally abusive to Barbara's son Jeb, a physical altercation at the emotional event would have been inevitable.
Why would Trump have attended? Did he have a relationship with Barbra?
Have other sitting presidents attended the funerals of former first ladies that they didn't know? (Here's a hint on that one: at least as I've heard reported, the answer is no.)
As I was sitting around this weekend with nothing to do (couldn't climb due to back injury, hopefully won't be out long) I was struck that the entire Barbara funeral was shown on every network. Nothing at all against Barbara, but this isn't a monarchy where we're forced to pretend that some people are special just because of their social status, is it?
Televising Barbara's entire lengthy funeral on every network just seemed really weird to me (and no, I didn't watch it all, just a few minutes to get a sense of what was going on--nothing particularly interesting.)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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Have other sitting presidents attended the funerals of former first ladies that they didn't know? (Here's a hint on that one: at least as I've heard reported, the answer is no.)
must have heard reported the answer is no?
from a Russian bot on Facebook?
Fox News ?
Starbucks?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 23, 2018 - 12:58pm PT
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… there were other aspects to TRUMP’S engagement with Russian authorities
* One of which had borne fruit for them was to exploit TRUMP’S personal obsessions and sexual perversion in order to obtain suitable “kompromat” (compromising material) on him. According to Source D, where s/he had been present, TRUMP’S (perverted) conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel, where he knew President and Mrs. OBAMA (whom he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a ‘golden showers’ (urination) shows in front of him. The hotel was known to be under [Russian Federal Security Service] control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to.
The original collection of memos by Christopher Steele contained this section:
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Comey said that when he told Trump about the dossier, Trump proceeded to put forward a supposedly logical argument and timeline of why the pee tape could not possibly exist.
Why did people vote for a lying demagogue?
Confirmation Bias.
People are biased towards believing something based on preconceptions and earlier conclusions. People are more likely to agree with what they already believe to be true, even if that belief is flawed and erroneous.
Trump's voters tune into Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, and are fed disingenuous propaganda. Then, when Trump says the same thing, they think:
"Oh, yeah. That's right. I've heard that before. Now I know, for a fact, that Hillary should be locked up because she has a torture chamber for child sex slaves at a D.C. pizza parlor. I'm going to vote for Trump."
The Trump-Hannity-Fox closed cycle has Hannity/Fox repeating what Trump says, and Trump repeating what Hannity/Fox says. They have created a tokamak-shaped echo chamber, where their deceptive nonsense just goes around and around and around.
Josef Goebbels' heir-apparent is Sean Hannity. Hannity has the same relationship with Trump that Goebbels had with Hitler.
Trump had a previously-scheduled tee-time that he couldn't get out of.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 23, 2018 - 01:32pm PT
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must have heard reported the answer is no?
from a Russian bot on Facebook?
Fox News ?
Starbucks?
How's liberal "fact checker" Snopes (trying to defuse some criticism of Obama for skipping Nancy Reagan's funeral)--
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-nancy-reagans-funeral/
While it’s true President Obama was slated to appear at SXSW during Nancy Reagan’s funeral, it appeared that many confused the political use of the word “party” with its recreational application. The President’s appearance was planned well in advance, and was the subject of a weekly address aired before Reagan’s death. Michelle Obama was scheduled to attend Nancy Reagan’s funeral as a White House representative, and sitting presidents rarely attend the funerals of former First Ladies.
Freaking hilarious. Now how many of you will admit you just had a case of Trump derangement syndrome? (Or have I been tricked by Snopes?)
Edit:
"Yeah. That's right. I've heard that before. Now I know it's true: Hillary should be locked up because she has a torture chamber for child sex slaves at a D.C. pizza parlor. I will vote for Trump."
It's an open question whether Hillary should have been prosecuted for the email scandals. At the very least investigation should be re-opened in light of apparent criminal conduct by McCabe and possibly Comey.
If Hillary was guilty, that still doesn't necessarily mean she should be locked-up--we'd have to see what the federal sentencing guidelines call for, and also would be interesting to see the punishment that similar wrongdoers received.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Hannity-Trump echo chamber is still reverberating with noise about Hillary being investigated and locked up. Trump and Hannity are using that noise in an attempt to distract from an actual, factual investigation into actual, factual crimes that have already led to Trump's associates confessing, being sentenced and being sent to jail.
Hannity and Trump are like two little kids with chocolate all over their faces, saying, "Somebody else ate the cake. We need to find out who did it."
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 23, 2018 - 01:59pm PT
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If Hillary was guilty, that still doesn't necessarily mean she should be locked-up--we'd have to see what the federal sentencing guidelines call for, and also would be interesting to see the punishment that similar wrongdoers received.
What happened in the past is established.
W “lost” or destroyed 22 million emails from the extraordinary rendition and torture years before he left office without any punishment at all. I don’t recall anybody discussing sentencing guidelines before indictment back then.
I mean, other than the foreign courts that have indictments filed on him and Cheney for war crimes at the international court at The Hague.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html
Nothing has been done after indictment, either.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35397/bush-cheney-war-crimes/
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 23, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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Well, tuning in to the Taco Stand after a week or so, this thread is both amusing and informative. And I must say the ad hominem attacks have been kept at a low, shall, I say, threshold.
I could rebut some of the things said on this thread, but what good would that do. Those who would agree, would agree, though who would not, would not. Simple, isn't it. I cannot persuade, with facts, those who are committed to their convictions.
As far as the Duck is concerned, I have had my say about him in the past on different threads, and I do not agree with him most of the time.
But Tom is right. The Duck has been at the forefront and the "cutting edge" of SAR over the past 40 or so years, and the climbing community should respect that, and to that I can 'let go' him calling us STOOPID Americans, after all he was not born in the US (so I understand), so what better than an immigrant to call out us Stoopid Americans.
To date this whole shiittshow should be about Donald Trump and his a) nefarious background, b) his policies, and c) if he actually has committed treason. Bringing in sideshows such as Hillary is history, IMO. The crux of the matter is… is Donald Trump suited to be POTUS?
Edit
I know there is much more to it than I simplify, and one could argue that I under-simplify it, or oversimplify it. But really, it is not "rocket science". Either Trump is a piece of defecation or the best thing that ever happened to the US and indeed the world.
There are a lot of factors to consider. But gosh darn it, I pride myself in trying to look at all angles. Sure I have my biases and convictions, and I do my best to override those when I write. I am an emotional person, but I believe an honest one.
That said, I have written BS in the past, no doubt my excuse is a couple of glasses of wine. Convenient. But perhaps "in vino veritas"?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 23, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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These Republicans delve so deep into the weeds it's amazing
I guess it's so they can feel still right about something
talk about BS, who was or wasn't at all the first ladies funerals, is that all you got??
How about the total hypocrisy on every other issue, how about the constant lies your side tries to sell the American People
what about the debt now??
How about the Tax scam, the EPA under attack, the minorities under attack, the lawlessness at the Very TOP
You don't care, it's all about having something to be distracted by, like Hillary's e-mails....
Do you care about the e-mails of Trump's cabinet???
Hell no, they're looting the country and you guys still care about non- crimes of Hillary, a Private citizen that lost a rigged election.
Pathetic
No Republican has any credibility on Politics, science, facts, or pretty much anything after these last year's display
The Dems may have lost the election, but the Republicans have lost everything, along with their minds which allowed them to accept and vote for an Authoritarian idiot to be our president.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 23, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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Omg.. you politards are still at it!
Round and round and round you go.
Must be getting dizzy no?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 03:31pm PT
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Yeah lol
These politards are spinning in circles completely clueless blindly believing all that daily horsesh!t brainwashing they are spoon fed ....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
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It's an open question whether Hillary should have been prosecuted for the email scandals.
See Lorenzo's post above - let's do go back and re-investigate W's administration and throw the whole lot of them in prison for illegal email server use.
And if you think TrumpCo is doing all their email through official email systems then I've got a crater on the moon with your name on it for a steal.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 23, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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See Lorenzo's post above - let's do go back and re-investigate W's administration and throw the whole lot of them in prison for illegal email server use.
Hmm, we'd have to look at the statute of limitations--no idea what it is but it may have run, W's been out off office for a long time.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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Yes let’s do spend our time confirming our bias about whether or not I’m suited to be president. This year, next year, and on and on until I’m no longer president. But didn’t we just have an election to decide the answer to that question?
The only reason that matters why I’m suited to be POTUS is because the genius Americans elected me to be POTUS, while the other genius Americans try to convince themselves that they were too clever to ever let that happen and it must have been a big mistake.
Oh yea I see - lots of good reasons why it was a big mistake. I guess I am the genius my self-confirmation bias tells me I am, and it’s only those other stoopid Americans who are guilty of confirmation bias. It’s almost like we outsmarted those idiots and defeated Trump instead of lost to him. Let’s just imagine that we did and move on.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
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This is really dumb. Some people are still fixated on the relatively mild ethical lapses of a failed presidential candidate instead of focusing on the rampant ongoing corruption comitted daily by people who have real power right now.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
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instead of focusing on the rampant ongoing corruption committed daily by people who have real power right now.
Yep finally an intelligent post.
Instead of Tom and his st00pid brainwashed politard crew ......
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 23, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
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This is really dumb. Some people are still fixated on the relatively mild ethical lapses of a failed presidential candidate instead of focusing on the rampant ongoing corruption comitted daily by people who have real power right now.
Yeah but we don't let the crooks off the hook even if they're out of power, especially when the crimes are still fresh / no statute of limitations issues.
I'm thinking McCabe and Comey may deserve at least a brief stay in a federal "bed and breakfast."
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 23, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
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Hmm, we'd have to look at the statute of limitations--no idea what it is but it may have run, W's been out off office for a long time.
Just so we are perfectly clear....
There is no statute of limitations on war crimes, Torture, Genocide, and Crimes Against Humanity by international laws the US has signed on to.
From the American Bar association:
One U.S. federal court has stated:
The principle of non-applicability of statutory limitations to certain violations of international law has been recognized in international instruments. The Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity provides that “[n]o statutory limitations period shall apply” to war crimes and crimes against humanity, including genocide.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
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Yeah but we don't let the crooks off the hook even if they're out of power, especially when the crimes are still fresh / no statute of limitations issues
She’s been investigated and investigated and investigated and f*#king investigated and cleared each time. Jesus Christ, get a grip.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 23, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
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Republican congresses have spent almost a quarter of a billion dollars investigating the Clintons. Don't you think they'd have dug up something by now? If they wanted to?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 23, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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They'll find something when the supreme court gets a hold of the investigation..Be patient...
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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She’s been investigated and cleared each time.
Only by the corrupt system that is in place.
The whole shebang is corrupted to the bone.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 23, 2018 - 07:06pm PT
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This is really dumb. Some people are still fixated on the relatively mild ethical lapses of a failed presidential candidate instead of focusing on the rampant ongoing corruption comitted daily by people who have real power right now.
what is wrong with you, Dirtbag
don't you know you are supposed to pick a target, mostly "tom" lately
and then personally attack him for no reason along with calling him and everyone stupid
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 23, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
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She’s been investigated and investigated and investigated and f*#king investigated......... I would love to see Trump sit in front of a Congressional Committee for eleven hours answering questions about Russia as Clinton did about bullshit Benghazi. The Trumpster wouldn't make it through 10 minutes of Russian questions without throwing a fit. Eleven hours.........? Love to see that.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 23, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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Hillary Clinton is not POTUS. If indeed she had transgressions against the law, and despite the Duck's assertions it is all corrupt, that is a secondary concern at this point.
The person that is POTUS has so many questions surrounding him, the so-called leader of the fee, oops free, world that is more of a concern in my eyes.
You all can post your memes of pro-Trump
And Werner, shut the f*#k up. If you have any positive input then do it otherwise you are a broken record. Stick to SAR and let me respect you for that.
And pro-Trumpers, keep wanking. Your idiocy is beyond that of the anti-Trumpers.
I have been reading this thread and others. Echo chambers. I have contributed to that echo at times. But let us grow up. The system needed changing, Trump is not the guy to do it, though to some it may seem so.
Let us see what the next 18 months hold.
EDIT
I have no solutions, at least none that will be used, though I like to think I have some good ideas. But I am not a policy maker, I am a writer, and to some a poor one (look at my bank balance I am no Super-Reilly).
I do read all the posts and follow the links, right, left or center. Some of what I read is total bullshite. But I hope I can tell the difference between truth and fallacy. I HAVE interviewed presidents and prime ministers, captains of industry and celebrities. Sifting through the truth and falsehoods can be a challenge.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
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I don't want any respect from you drama queen hypocrite ....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
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You talking' to me, Duck?
Or are you that thieving prick I caught going through my tent May 1975?
But Werner is at least right on one thing (finally), I am a drama queen, or melodramatic as I like to put it. Hypocrite? Yeah, I have done that too. What about you all?
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
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I would love to see Trump sit in front of a Congressional Committee for eleven hours answering questions about Russia as Clinton did about bullshit Benghazi.
The Caine Mutiny redux?
"They were all against me!"
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
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Werner Braun, the only respect I have for you is that you used Bridwell's (and others) techniques for rescue. They were not your own, but you utilized them for great effect and many rescues, I tip my hat to you for that dickhead.
But as I found over the weeks and months of hanging in C4 and the campfires, you were yourself a hanger on initially. But I still respect your contribution to YOSAR, whether you want my respect or not, you have it. Yet, your attitude along with several others, is one reason I decided to stop hanging in the Valley. I do not need egos and I do not need bullsh#t.
EDIT
I always thought climbers were cool people, guys and gals (I climbed with Molly several times). But having been around C4, I found some sociopaths, I only hope I was not one of them.
The best C4 person I roped up with? Charlie Porter. No doubt. Ed Barry, not far along except for the hornets, hah hah.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 23, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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There certainly are some infantile, childish and/or deranged people on the Taco Stand. I pity them.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Apr 23, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
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The Authentic Appeal of the Lying Demagogue: Proclaiming the Deeper Truth about Political Illegitimacy
Abstract We develop and test a theory to address a puzzling pattern that has been discussed widely since the 2016 U.S. presidential election and reproduced here in a post-election survey: how can a constituency of voters find a candidate “authentically appealing” (i.e., view him positively as authentic) even though he is a “lying demagogue” (someone who deliberately tells lies and appeals to non-normative private prejudices)? Key to the theory are two points: (1) “common-knowledge” lies may be understood as flagrant violations of the norm of truthtelling; and (2) when a political system is suffering from a “crisis of legitimacy” (Lipset 1959) with respect to at least one political constituency, members of that constituency will be motivated to see a flagrant violator of established norms as an authentic champion of its interests. Two online vignette experiments on a simulated college election support our theory. These results demonstrate that mere partisanship is insufficient to explain sharp differences in how lying demagoguery is perceived, and that several oft-discussed factors—information access, culture, language, and gender—are not necessary for explaining such differences. Rather, for the lying demagogue to have authentic appeal, it is sufficient that one side of a social divide regards the political system as flawed or illegitimate.
http://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/feb18asrfeature.pdf
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:17pm PT
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Gentlemen Please.
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dgbryan
Mountain climber
Hong Kong
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:31pm PT
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Dirtbag ...
(S)he’s been investigated and investigated and investigated and f*#king investigated and cleared each time. Jesus Christ, get a grip.
This Hilary or Lance we're talking about here?
Actually I'm still pro-Lance. Also, not everything goes through my work server.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2018 - 11:38pm PT
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Trump is ramping up the use of his personal, unsecured cellphone to bypass the White House switchboard and to avoid leaving a record of who he calls.
Chief of Staff John Kelly is being pushed out of the loop, when it comes to people contacting the president. Trump is hiding his outside contacts from his staff. He may soon want a Cone of Silence, like Scott Pruitt has in his office.
Trump's use of a personal, unsecured cellphone allows foreign spies to eavesdrop on him. Almost anybody can intercept his calls. He is a White House leaker whenever he's on his cellphone.
Trump is still complaining about Hillary's personal email server, which was apparently never compromised by the Russians.
Another implication of Trump's private cell phone use, Cunningham noted, is the possibility that Trump's conversations may not be "captured for the purposes of government accountability and history."
Accountability and history are two things that Trump has contempt for.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:39pm PT
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The idea that the best, the brightest, the very brain trust of the progressive left is getting their asses handed to them by Bozo the Clown is funny beyond belief.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 24, 2018 - 12:02am PT
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Even funnier is that with every passing day the very people who voted for trump are getting f*#ked further up the a*# in every conceivable economic and consumer rights way.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:05am PT
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Dr Sumner? Who dat?
Rick? Prick? Dick? Pinky?
It is easy to confuse us progressive libs. I am Patrick, but that could be Patdick. Doesn't bother me what others call me. I know who and what I am.
Progressive libs who may have stopped your Corvair from toasting you, or Three Mile Island, or infecting your Love Canal.
Come on, we need level-headed conservatives and liberals to balance the scale. Extremists, alt-right or alt-left, should have minimal input in a free-thinking democracy. Outside ideas? Input? Yes.
Stupid conspiracy theories that belong to the Twilight Zone, the Outer Limits.
Hmmm, think about them but don't dwell on them.
I am an idealist. But for some reason, reality touches me. In a big way. A YUGE way.
I am having a good time. There is no dry rock to climb so I pontificate, urinate and defecate. I hope I am not too vulgar. The Vulgarians were from the East Coast, the Gunks I think.
EDIT
The only thing that Trump has given this world, are some interesting words. Yuge, "like I have Yuge hands and a yuge… ask Stormy". And cofete, coveteie, co-something. Maybe Sir Don meant confetti. Or coffee. To wake him up at 4 in the morning so he can tweet to his heart's desire.
Donald Trump is screwing America. Yet, having said that, he has disrupted 'things' that needed disrupted. But a better person could have done that without the baggage he carries. He gives new meaning to Mafia Don.
And Tom, the architecture ideas were not his. Trump did no construct great buildings as you claim. Your claim made me want to look at Trump's real estate holdings, buildings, etc etc. My research shows that Trump is not a genius on that matter.
If Trump is a 'genius', it is on self-branding, self-marketing and screwing (literally, figuratively and financially) others. Look at his background. This is not (only) a political thought. Long before he aspired to be the most powerful man on the earth (he must wank at that in his golden toilets), he was under scrutiny for many years.
Deals were made to save his ass. The facts, the records, the court dealings are there in public.
The guy should be in prison, not the White House. This is not conspiracy theory. Look it up. I could provide links, but by researching it yourselves, on any platform, perhaps it may lead…
EDIT
By the way, Putin is the most powerful person on this earth, not the POS/POTUS currently holding that 'title'. That is how I see it.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:49am PT
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The idea that the best, the brightest, the very brain trust of the progressive left is getting their asses handed to them by Bozo the Clown is funny beyond belief.
The center-right got their asses handed to them by Trump, that's true. The progressive left is getting energized.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:02am PT
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And as far as Irish weather is concerned, 2018 went by so fast, I cannot believe it is December.
Friday and Saturday were lovely, the best summer I have ever spent.
I love this forum.
EDIT
And in Camp 4, Sunnyside, I always left (1972-1976) my good gear in the truck/van/car. Not in my tent. So any scumbags could only steal my sleeping bag (as happened twice, and my Thermarest. Why did I not learn after the first time? Too trusting I suppose). Nice.
No I mean, I'd rather be in Nice in France. Jennie lived there for years. We hung out there.
Climbers are no different than anybody else. There are good, and there are bad.
I love the feel of rock on my hands, the crunch of ice (I take my Powers neat, please). I never saw it as a competition, between me and other humans, between me and nature. Who gets the first ascent, who punches out somebody in the car park. Who is the best. Nada, to me.
To me, climbing is a love.
EDIT
Can I just add, I never used my Ibex (North Face) sleeping bag in C4. I still have it since 1969. The bags stolen were Snow Lion and Sierra Designs.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:38am PT
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The idea that the best, the brightest, the very brain trust of the progressive left is getting their asses handed to them by Bozo the Clown is funny beyond belief.
how ironic that this guy, who voted for trump, realizes that he voted for a clown. well dude, karma is a bitch.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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^^^^
10b4me, stop it. I laughed so hard my coffee, well it went into my sleeve not onto the Macbook.
There is something about buyer's remorse that comes to mind.
And I always liked Bozo, he was a good clown, unlike the clown in the White House. Orange must be the favored color of clowns (no reference to the North, okay, maybe some).
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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Mueller told Bozo " cram it clowny "..Bozo tweeted " that's a Bozo no-no "... mean while Butchy boy doles out Bozo's bucks to quiet Bozos bimbos.. The show must go on..
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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The center-right got their asses handed to them by Trump, that's true. The progressive left is getting energized.
The "progressive" left has had their whine cranked up to 11, since November 9, 2016. It's been a shrill constant.
And what's been gotten them? The country is more divided than any time since the Civil War. Even with a putz in the White House, the Dems have been ineffective in gaining ground. I guess bitching and moaning isn't the best approach.
Trump sucks! The Republicans sucks! The Democrats aren't much better.
Woe is us.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:50am PT
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Dems have been ineffective in gaining ground. I guess bitching and moaning isn't the best approach.
The Dems are not the progressive left.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:59am PT
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The level of corruption is at all levels. Obviously, those policrats that shovel $$ to the military industrial complex and of course, Ma and Pa on Main St who turn a blind eye to our violent world actions and remain comfy in their sprinterless vans and B52 haircuts and flatbills. As much as nobody gets outa here alive, nobody has clean hands in the USofA and if you think you do, you are just arrogant and hella judgemental. It is quite easy to see if you employ a little humility and I think Braun's point is exactly that, especially when you stir in the materialism that is the common thread that holds the citizens together in the USoA.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:05am PT
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the Dems have been ineffective in gaining ground.
Good day, Edward!
you have not been keeping up on your current affairs reading?
you have not noticed that the "Dems" have been winning elections all over the country
including in very traditionally held Republican seats
that is called "gaining ground", try that new thing out called an internet search engine
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:14am PT
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Trump golfed instead of going to Barbara Bush’s funeral.
There was a time when the President of the US did the right things, was gracious and humble.
No longer.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:20am PT
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I just talked with my landlord. A fine man is he. I have been a good journalist and sometimes zoologist (my training, black bears and coyotes in the field, but we all know them as climbers) for close to 45 years working in the media of all sorts (TV, national newspapers, business press, etc etc ad nauseam). I have worked and lived in over five countries and have had no better landlord than Graham.
He gave up his practice (optician) in Dublin to move to England to take care of his (late) mother (leukemia). He divorced his wife (her daddy owns hotels in Ireland and Dubai) and his sons love him for that. His partner in England is now ill, her son a GP, so hopefully she is in good hands.
The love of my life is in a nursing home south of New Ross (Kennedy homestead). She turned 67 on April 9 and I spoke with her for over 30 minutes on her birthday.
I have sh#t eff all going for me except my writing. I have nephews in the Marines or ex (my godson was in two tours of Afghanistan), the other trains with SEALs (Recon 4 or something like that, I don't know). The third is coming to Ireland to finish his BA at UCC (his girlfriend is Irish) and then OCS in Virginia at Quantico. I have some great relatives in the US.
I am healthy, lamenting the lack of rock in SE Ireland. I have a fine dog and cat, Aggie and Betty.
I am alive.
So Donald Trump is POTUS. I do not like it, at all. Never liked the man from decades ago. He is an as#@&%e. Plain and simple. How he got to be POTUS is more of a reflection on American society and politics is there to see.
Still, he is a fart in the wind. America, the world, will move on long after his stench is just a passing of the breeze. That said, His stench may still linger in some parts of society, of the world. His masters are still out there. Determined to rule us. We must ever be so vigilant.
The clouds are clearing, the rain has abetted. The sun is shining through.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:36am PT
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Even funnier is that with every passing day the very people who voted for trump are getting f*#ked further up the a*# in every conceivable economic and consumer rights way.
The idea that the best, the brightest, the very brain trust of the progressive left is getting their asses handed to them by Bozo the Clown is funny beyond belief.
Hey, who gives a ef if Republicans gut social security and other safety net programs to pay for a 1.8 trillion dollar tax cut for the rich, or that we have a corrupt, totalitarian leaning POTUS, just as long as you can laugh at libtards.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:43am PT
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Larry, you are right. Ken, I would not put so much 'emphasis' or 'concern' if Trump did not go to the late Mrs Bush's funeral. There are bigger fish to fry, so to speak.
We have to remember, the US is a democracy. Supposedly some millions voted for Trump (or at least the electoral college did), that still leaves a majority who did not. A democracy kids is not about who rules for just those that voted for "him", but for all of those in society. In the nation. And remember, the POTUS is just a civil servant, a public servant. Not God.
A good president, a good leader, should not ignore that. Isn't that the basis of the electoral college, that the little voices are heard? Oh please excuse my ignorance, that is not what the electoral college is about. Is it?
Trump will come and go (ask Ms Daniels), but America and progressive thinking will not be a flight of fancy.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 24, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
Apr 24, 2018 - 09:05am PT
the Dems have been ineffective in gaining ground.
Good day, Edward!
you have not been keeping up on your current affairs reading?
you have not noticed that the "Dems" have been winning elections all over the country
including in very traditionally held Republican seats
that is called "gaining ground", try that new thing out called an internet search engine
Republicans control the White house, both Houses of congress,
2/3rd of Governorships and
full control of 32 state legislatures.
Granted, they've given a little ground. Considering the historic success of the 2016 election, a little give is expected.
Here's to Democrats "winning".
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 24, 2018 - 12:02pm PT
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President Bozo was planning on attending Barbara Bush's funeral until he found out she wasn't attending his..." Always keep smiling..."
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
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well Edward
let us pray that your beloved Republicans remain in control of the US government
you must be so proud of them
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 24, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
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The National Rifle Association (NRA) broke a 15-year-old fundraising record in March, countering the wave of anti-gun enthusiasm that swept the country after the February mass shooting in Parkland, Fla.
The NRA Political Victory Fund raised $2.4 million from March 1 to March 31, according to Federal Election Commission filings, $1.9 million from donations of $200 or less. The windfall, the largest in one month since June 2003, came in the first full month of fundraising since 17 people were killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Valentine’s Day.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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Good one, RJ!
So is Macron a crankloon for agreeing that the Iran deal can be bettered? Y’all do know who Macron is?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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looks like Mannifort, Flynn and now Cohen will be cellmates in a Federal prison
obstruction of justice is an iffy charge to make stick but Donald's Russian money laundering days are over
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This Trump thing is the world's greatest guessing game.
If Cohen is indicted in Federal court, a New York State law prevents evidence behind those charges from being additionally used in State court. Trump's pardon power doesn't extend to State court.
HERE'S MY GUESS: Federal prosecutors will pass some of their Michael Cohen evidence to New York State prosecutors. Cohen will be indicted in both Federal and State court, on separate charges, to ensure maximum pressure on him to flip.
That already happened to Manafort. He's facing two different indictments, one in Federal Court, and one in Virginia State Court.
One of Manafort's failed defenses was claiming Mueller overstepped his jurisdiction. So, with Cohen, Mueller passed relevant evidence to the New York District Court, to obviate any further nonsense of that type. That court, in turn, will pass some evidence to the State Court.
There is plenty of Trump-related malfeasance to go around. No one Court needs to be greedy, and they all seem willing to share with each other.
Trump's echo chamber will probably start complaining about prosecutorial socialism.
And Tom, the architecture ideas were not his. Trump did no construct great buildings as you claim. Your claim made me want to look at Trump's real estate holdings, buildings, etc etc. My research shows that Trump is not a genius on that matter.
I never claimed Trump was an architectural, engineering or other technical genius. He has been, at times, a genius with respect to his building projects as a whole.
Trump Tower, his first skyscraper, required a complex and unprecedented permitting package. There were no other towers in that area, and the planning department was very reluctant to allow one. Trump had to buy the air rights from adjacent buildings, and leave the Trump Tower lobby as a permanent public space, like an indoor park. Financing a new building when NYC was going bankrupt was a bit of a magic trick. The decision to go forward with the all-concrete frame design was Trump's.
Enzo Ferrari never designed an engine, and never designed a car. Lampredi and Pininfarina did. But, Enzo was the guy who put it all together and made it happen.
That said, Trump used illegal labor when building Trump Tower, and illegally destroyed Art Deco sculptures he had agreed to preserve for a museum. He probably defrauded his contractors by not paying them. Trump Tower was one of the first, or the first, residential tower where anonymous buyers using LLCs bought property. As early as 1984, illicit Russian money was used to purchase units in the building. More recently, in 2016 Trump challenged the NY Department of Buildings over private use of the public lobby of Trump Tower, when he installed various vending kiosks to sell Red Chinese hats with a nationalistic slogan, Make America Great Again.
Enzo Ferrari was also a prick. He angered Ferruccio Lamborghini so much that he started his own car company. Enzo pissed off Ford Motor Company so much, they built the Ford GT40 to kick Ferrari's ass (which they did).
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Pardoning Cohen won't help Trump. He might do it anyway, like an idiot who randomly moves a pawn because can't think of any other move to make.
Trump is up against chess masters who have put him in checkmate.
If he pardons Cohen, the New York State Court moves forward on Cohen.
If Trump fires Mueller, the Southern District Court moves forward on Cohen.
If he tries to drop the Stormy Daniels case, she refuses the settlement, and the case moves forward against Trump and Cohen.
If Cohen refuses to flip, or disappears, prosecutors have ten boxes of papers and taped conversations, and will move forward.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 24, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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If trump pardons Cohen he should be impeached.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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the 25th Amendment requires the Presidents' own cabinet to vote to remove him from office
from that vote it goes to congress and requires majority or is it 2/3 to impeach?
Betfair has pretty even money now bet that Trump will not serve out this term
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.129133401
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:59pm PT
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the 25th Amendment requires the Presidents' own cabinet to vote to remove him from office
from that vote it goes to congress and requires majority or is it 2/3 to impeach?
Norton, I think you're confusing two separate things here. The 25th Amendment is a way for the President to be removed from office for incapacity; Congress has to agree he is incompetent.
Impeachment is a process defined in the Constitution, not an amendment; the House serves article of impeachment specifying the crimes the President is accused of; the Senate tries the President for those crimes and finds him guilty (2/3 majority) or innocent.
Different things.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
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If trump pardons Cohen he should be impeached.
Trump will pardon Cohen.
Forum politards will then be moving to Russia becoming Putins bitch.
he he heh
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 24, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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knock knock
who is there
FBI
Who first reported that the Manafort warrant was "no knock" and served pre-dawn?
BTW there are a number of posters on the ST demonstrating signs of dementia, some of them I like quite well.
-c'est la vie
It goes to show you never can tell, but PM me if any of you need help with that dandruff.
BTW2, offering or granting presidential pardons, can be seen as an attempt at, or actual, obstruction of justice.
-Will Rogers or Mark Twain (or both)
"When you have a satellite, you want to demonstrate that you can take pictures of places you wouldn’t otherwise image,”
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:15pm PT
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Larry, you have a point, although Obama was engaged in a public speech that had previously been scheduled.
Trump was off playing golf---which you will recall he promised not to do while in office, at all.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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Knock, knock.
Who's there?
F.B.I.
F.B.I. who?
Finders of Bromance-boy's Information, that's who.
According to CNN,
The so-called no-knock warrant, which was first reported by The Washington Post, was served at Manafort's home in Washington's northern Virginia suburbs on July 26, the day after Manafort met with Senate intelligence committee investigators.
Amazonghi!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 05:36am PT
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What makes you think they give us the best candidates to vote for?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:13am PT
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Looks like the Macron visit is going well.
Who knows how the North Korea summit will go, but at least there's potential.
Could it be that the Trump's warm personal touch is a more effective way to engage in diplomacy than Obama's icy aloofness? What did the Obama approach get us?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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Looks like the Macron visit is going well.
Who knows how the North Korea summit will go, but at least there's potential.
Could it be that the Trump's warm personal touch is a more effective way to engage in diplomacy than Obama's icy aloofness? What did the Obama approach get us?
I have little doubt that Trump’s racism, authoritarianism, ignorance, and blatant corruption will yield great results. Macron is used to dealing with LePen, Trump should seem very familiar.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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We’re closer to a meaningful rapprochement with N Korea than we have been in 60 years.
If you can’t admit that you have zero credibility.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:47am PT
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Poor little whiny right wingers, always crying about every rule of law that keeps them down like little snowflakes, if only those pesky libtards would sh#t up and take it like the rest of Republican sheep.
I guess their Hate for Obama and the obstruction they caused is coming back to haunt them....
Trump Keeps Whining About Obstructionism But The Republican Party Invented It
When Trump and his disciples whine like this, the universal response ought to be: "Stop whining!" The second group refrain should be: "You made this!"
Bob Cesca· Apr 23, 2018
https://thedailybanter.com/2018/04/trump-keeps-whining-about-obstruction/
There was a time when the Republican Party fancied itself the party of personal responsibility. Of course it was aimed directly at welfare recipients -- the "takers" -- and was never intended to trigger blowback. The party's use of racist "Southern Strategy" dog whistles has grown in recent years, super-charged by Donald Trump's grievance politics. Sure, the Republicans continue to demonize welfare recipients, immigrants and working class Americans today, but they seemed to have backed away from overtly claiming to be the grownups in the room, refusing, now, to accept responsibility for their own shortcomings.
Nope. Today, the Trump-led Republican Party is all about petty grievances, blaming their alleged struggles on everyone except themselves. This is one of central prongs of Trumpism. The GOP's former penchant for stoicism and self-reliance has been replaced by crazy-eyed whining, taking its cues now from the whiniest public figure in the history of American politics, Trump himself, of course, whose notoriously cranky bellyaching comes off as the ceaseless lament of a recess bully who blames his own unpopularity and personal inadequacies on everyone else and isn't afraid to collapse into flailing hissy fits when things don't go his way.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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We’re closer to a meaningful rapprochement with N Korea than we have been in 60 years.
If you can’t admit that you have zero credibility.
Whatever.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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I know, peace with N Korea isn’t as important as who The Donald got in bed with.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:55am PT
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Yes, their competence just blows me away. The best people ever. This should be a piece of cake. And our president is so studious and even tempered, too. They have a proven track record. What could go wrong?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 25, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 09:03am PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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We’re closer to a meaningful rapprochement with N Korea than we have been in 60 years.
Hannity Cycle Hot Air Engine
A perpetual-motion machine with zero useful output
Trump forced Raul Castro to resign by making it more difficult for Americans to travel to Cuba.
Trump's CIA guy Pompeo told Kim Jong-Un he was next, and he caved.
Trump could not have colluded with the Russians because he was too busy with North Korea.
Trump is the most effective president in American history.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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Hannity Cycle Hot Air Engine
A perpetual-motion machine with zero useful output
Trump forced Raul Castro to resign by making it more difficult for Americans to travel to Cuba.
Trump's CIA guy Pompeo told Kim Jong-Un he was next, and he caved.
Trump could not have colluded with the Russians because he was too busy with North Korea.
Trump is the most effective president in American history.
There's a grain of truth in that, no doubt.
But try to be objective and you'll see the libtards have their own canards, e.g., Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, who rightfully should be our president!
That's all a fairy tale, just complete nonsense.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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I don't know about it being a fairytale, going off nothing other than Trump organization emails and statements it appears there was a high level of enthusiasm about working with Russians to defeat Clinton. Not saying a crime was committed but to say there was no effort to work together is demonstrably false.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:51am PT
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Trump's CIA guy Pompeo told Kim Jong-Un he was next, and he caved.
So, less American visitors to North Korea for tourism?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 25, 2018 - 10:57am PT
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We’re closer to a meaningful rapprochement with N Korea than we have been in 60 years.
If you can’t admit that you have zero credibility.
Because N Korea has never before acted like a maniac to get attention, and then played nice to get some sort of agreement/financial help, only to ignore said agreement later.
But I'm sure Trump is such a great negotiator that this time will be different.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2018 - 10:58am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Trump is ready to push the No Tourists For North Korea button at any minute.
Kim Jong-Un better not mess with the Deal Artist, or he'll go down hard and fast, crying all the way.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:08am PT
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he'll go down hard and fast, crying all the way.
Jusy like you and your politard crew here always whinning.
You're just like TRump ......
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:19am PT
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Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, who rightfully should be our president!
That's all a fairy tale, just complete nonsense.
And you know this how, exactly?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2018 - 12:21pm PT
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Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, who rightfully should be our president!
That's all a fairy tale, just complete nonsense.
And you know this how, exactly?
Well I "know" it in the same way that I "know" that Hillary wasn't a part of the Washington D.C. pizzeria-child-molestation ring.
As a philosophical point, I'd have to concede I don't know either.
But back on planet Earth--they're both just extremely far fetched musings without any real evidence, that just got picked up by people who don't like the target (Trump or Hillary, as the case may be) and desperately want to believe any ridiculous nonsense someone else made up about them.
I'll try to remember to check back in when the Mueller thing is over and done with (hopefully his pompous ass gets fired along with Rosenstein and Magoo) and we can see how it all transpired.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 25, 2018 - 01:09pm PT
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they're both just extremely far fetched musings without any real evidence
The Russian govt. interfered with the election to increase political instability and damage Hillary by bolstering Trump and Sanders.
Papandopoulos pleaded guilty lying to the FBI about contacts he had with agents of Russia. Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. Manafort and Gates were indicted. Trump fired Comey after considering "this Russia thing", Trump lied about being in Russia when the pee tape allegedly happened.
Trump may or may not be guilty, but there's enough evidence that demands it be investigated. The whole "it's a witch hunt" thing is such B.S. because we'd be extremely negligent to not investigate it with what evidence has been made known publicly.
And it's not evidence, but Trump acts and talks like he's guilty. e.g. saying Cohen won't flip. Why would Trump care if Cohen flips if Trump isn't guilty?
Of course people entrenched in a certain viewpoint can convince themselves of anything not matter what the evidence suggests is possible.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
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Court filing shows that the Manafort warrant was not "no knock" and that it was not served pre/dawn
It would be interesting to know who exactly started the rumor
()
"In issuing the warrant, the magistrate judge authorized the government to execute the warrant any day through August 8, 2017, and to conduct the search 'in the daytime [from] 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.,'" the document says. "The government complied fully with those date and time conditions, and Manafort does not contend otherwise."
Mueller's office filed three motions:
One 11-page filing opposed Manafort's request for a bill of particulars, which is a detailed, formal written statement of charges against a defendant.
The 33-page second filing opposed Manafort's motion to suppress evidence obtained during an FBI search last May of a storage locker in Alexandria, Virginia, belonging to his consulting firm, Davis Manafort Partners Inc.
The 23-page third filing opposed Manafort's motion to suppress evidence obtained in a predawn raid on his home in Alexandria in July.
()
North Korea now has nukes and means of delivery. One cannot blame Trump for that.
Of course they are willing to sit and talk now.
There are some suspects who "may" have assisted in the process.
Wait and see what a great deal T bargains for
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
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The Russian govt. interfered with the election to increase political instability and damage Hillary by bolstering Trump and Sanders.
LOL ... massive brainwashed horesh!t.
Like I said all along you fools actually believe all that horesh!t they spoon feed you all ....
The Russian govt. wants the US to stable.
It doesn't want the US to become unstable.
You fools are totally clueless to whom was and still is behind your st00pid messed up govt.
And it ain't Russia .....
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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Trump asked Comey to use the FBI investigate the possible existence of the "pee pee tape"......
Why would he want to know if there is a tape or not, if he hadn't done the act.
Boy, blatant guilt is hard to read when he can do no wrong.
Basically, everything reported in the Steel Dossier has been confirmed.
or as blah blah says, "nothing to see here, just another manufactured witch hunt."
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 25, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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This is what it is reported that Comey said:
“He just rolled on, unprompted, explaining why it couldn’t possibly be true, ending by saying he was thinking of asking me to investigate the allegation to prove it was a lie. I said it was up to him.”
Want the turth, ask Hemmingway? I thought he was dead (RIP)
Hemingway proposes a simple account of Comey’s interactions with Trump: The FBI director was setting up the president by laying a pretext for a media ambush. “Newly released memos written by former FBI director James Comey indicate that an early 2017 briefing for then-President-elect Donald Trump about the contents of an infamous dossier was held so it could be leaked to media outlets eager to report on the dossier’s allegations,” she writes, faux-authoritatively.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:05pm PT
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*U.S. Slips Again in World Press Freedom Index
“In 2017, the 45th President of the United States helped sink the country to 45th place by labeling the press an ‘enemy of the American people’ in a series of verbal attacks toward journalists, attempts to block White House access to multiple media outlets, routine use of the term ‘fake news’ in retaliation for critical reporting, and calling for media outlets’ broadcasting licenses to be revoked,” the report from RWB read.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
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Trump asked Comey to use the FBI investigate the possible existence of the "pee pee tape"......
Why would he want to know if there is a tape or not, if he hadn't done the act.
Boy, blatant guilt is hard to read when he can do no wrong.
Basically, everything reported in the Steel Dossier has been confirmed.
or as blah blah says, "nothing to see here, just another manufactured witch hunt."
So if you're accused of something, and you're guilty, you demand that the FBI investigate it????
Hard to argue with logic like that . . .
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
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they're both just extremely far fetched musings without any real evidence
You sound like someone declaring that a climbing team jugging to Sickle Ledge will never, ever reach the summit. I have personally heard people say that, while they gawk and make absurd statements from a position of complete ignorance.
And, I've had people tell me, with great fauxthority, "You'll never get a patent on that", two weeks after filing my application for a process that takes at least a year.
And, I would invite you to go to a farm, and tell a big guy on a tractor that he's a fool for sowing his field, because you don't see any evidence of a crop.
The Mueller investigation, and several others, are still in process. They investigators have not yet revealed what they've found, because that would be counter-productive to their investigations.
The evidence already available publicly, including the circumstantial evidence of Trump's non-stop denials, indicates a strong likelihood that Trump's campaign team had contact with Russians, and conspired to pervert the election process.
"He's acting like he's guilty. Now, that could either be because he is guilty, or because he is psychotic. It's one of the two. But, it's not a very good situation to have the President of the United States behaving this way."
Richard Painter, 4-22-2018
Mueller won't be fired when his investigation is done and over with. His mandate as Special Counsel will have expired at that point, and his job will no longer exist. He'll go back into retirement.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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Yes, yes - we understand your need to attempt to discredit Mueller. Shoot the messenger/ad hominem. On the evidence, he's a text book prosecutor, who hasn't said a word publicly about his work since he was appointed. There's no evidence whatsoever to impugn his objectivity and credibility.
That's not exactly right--Hannity has done a good job exposing the bias of Mueller's team. (And selecting Mueller in the first place seems a little iffy in light of his relationship with Comey.)
But no matter: addressing this and Tom's comment, we have some common ground--we will wait to see what Mueller comes up with. I'm basically sure it will be nothing that links Trump with any meaningful collusion (which isn't to say he's never spoken with a Russian), have no idea what else Mueller may find.
Muller's been doing is boy scout routine for how long now? And what's he got on Trump, viz-a-viz Russian collusion? Think about it. . . .
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 25, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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yes, the logic is clear
President Trump's own hand picked Republican Attorney General, Mr Magoo, should be fired
tell us again how Trump has raised the image of America across the world?
really, you are a disservice to your own conservative brand
over and over reinforcing the well proven image of the Repub "base"
as being uninformed, misinformed, believing lies and repeating lies
all without a 4th graders level of intellectual curiosity to getting facts first, before going "blah blah"
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 25, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
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Whether formal collusion by trump himself on the campaign or just directing a strategy of engaging the Russians, what's clear is the intersection of his [laundering] business interests and abiding love of fellow white nationalists run counter to U.S. security interests on a number of fronts. And when you roll it all up - the election interference, weakening Russian sanctions wherever possible, and tacitly supporting Putin's activities around the globe - it's hard for me to come away with any conclusion other than the lot of this crew are traitors plain and simple.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Hannity has done a good job exposing the bias of Mueller's team
There is no reasonable response to that statement.
It just is what it is.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 25, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
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That's not exactly right--Hannity has done a good job exposing the bias of Mueller's team.
OMFG
"Hannity has done a good job exposing the bias of Mueller's team."
well we can end it all now
blah
tell us more.. please
you have made some great points
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 25, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters. - Trump
I thought this was an exaggeration, but now I realize it's true. At least for some voters. He could literally murder someone and many people would believe whatever BS they needed to because they don't have the mental fortitude to examine their beliefs and admit they could be wrong.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 25, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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Muelller hasn't revealed much , less showing any bias..I suppose some Trump lovers think Putin should be doing the Russian collusion investigation...Sorry , will not happen...But keep fantasizing...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:37am PT
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So Flynn is being prosecuted for lying to the FBI.
McCabe lied at least four times to federal investigators.
Comey may also have lied to Congress when he testified that he had not written his report on the Hillary Clinton email scandal before interviewing Clinton.
Former director of national intelligence James Clapper and former CIA director John Brennan lied under oath to Congress on matters related to surveillance.
Then there's the matter of Hillary's deleted emails (I didn't know they were classified... derp!) and destroyed phones (with hammers). Subtle.
How about using a DNC-funded, unsubstantiated, hit piece as the primary evidence for a FISA warrant.
Last week, a lawsuit was filed in DC District Court accusing the DNC and the Hillary campaign of illegally funneling 84 million dollars into Hillary's coffers.
All of this gets a ho-hum... move along folks... nothing to see here, while we get weeks of Stormy Daniels.
The "trump colluded" story has been investigated for a year and a half. Meuller's scored a few minor wins. But there's still little evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians to win the election. Meanwhile, all these other examples of wrongdoing/corruption get a pass.
Move along.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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^^^^^^^^
I no longer believe that there was collusion, but I do believe that there has been obstruction of justice.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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^^^^^^
just more proof that he is nuttier than hell.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:30am PT
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So if you're accused of something, and you're guilty, you demand that the FBI investigate it????
In Trumpland this is logical. Being the narcissist that he is known to be, he thought he had an "ironclad" alibi, in that he was not in Russia that night.
ha ha
BTW, when is the last time that any U.S. legal authority successfully served a subpoena at the Kremlin?
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Trump
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.”
If only Clinton had understood her voters as well as I did, maybe I wouldn’t be president.
“All without a 4th graders level of intellectual curiosity to getting facts first, before going "blah blah"
Yes I’m sure that we’re all very impressed with our post fourth grader understanding of how to influence other people by impugning their intelligence as pre-fourth grader intelligence.
Put those together and you got me.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:07am PT
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Only the mob take the fifth Trump, 2016
If you're innocent, why are you taking the fifth Trump
Only the guilty take the fifth Trump
Cohen takes the fifth
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:20am PT
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To still be a trump supporter you have to be in total denial that:
a) he's stacked every agency with corrupt carpetbaggers who's sole intent is undermining and dismantling every form of rights and protection low and middle-class workers currently enjoy and to remove every form of government oversight of corporations possible
b) he's absolutely clueless with regard to any aspect of foreign policy
c) he's a devout white nationalist racist more beholden to other white nationalist regimes than to the U.S., its constitution, or to our democracy
d) he's an inveterate liar and sociopath
e) he's a traitor
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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To still be a trump supporter you have to be in total denial that:
To many of his supporters, some of those things, particularly white nationalism, are features, not bugs.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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he's a devout white nationalist racist more beholden to other white nationalist regimes than to the U.S., its constitution, or to our democracy
Baseless haterade.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:09am PT
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To still be a trump supporter you have to be in total denial that:
...
To many of his supporters, some of those things, particularly white nationalism, are features, not bugs.
Tell it to Kanye, Trump's new bestie.
As for Trump being a traitor, we've been over that -- basically a complete lack of evidence to support that far fetched theory, notwithstanding the massive witch hunt that's been going on since he was a candidate.
As for the Russian "interference" in the election--probably should be an investigation, and there is. Some of it is just giving us a taste of our own medicine, some of it was probably a public good (releasing DNC wrongdoing, even though it may have been the result of some sort of hacking, just like a lot of whistle blowing), some of it likely was malicious from our point of view.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:15am PT
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Baseless haterade.
Don't make my case...
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:26am PT
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Tell it to Kanye, Trump's new bestie.
Hey Kanye, the object of your man crush is a racist, with a lengthy career of discriminating against African Americans and praising white supremacists.
There. Easy.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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You know you are running out of ammo when you say "Look, Kanye likes me"
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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healyje
Apr 26, 2018 - 11:15am PT
Don't make my case...
How about you make your case?
As it stands, your claim is nothing more than shrill hyperbolic nonsense.
Go ahead. Explain how Trump is a devout white nationalist racist, who favors other white nationalist regimes.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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I thought this was an exaggeration, but now I realize it's true. At least for some voters. He could literally murder someone and many people would believe whatever BS they needed to because they don't have the mental fortitude to examine their beliefs and admit they could be wrong.
That that is true of many Trump voters isn't my greatest worry.
My bigger worry is that Trump could publicly murder someone and the Republican congress wouldn't impeach him.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:34am PT
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I thought this was an exaggeration, but now I realize it's true. At least for some voters. He could literally murder someone and many people would believe whatever BS they needed to because they don't have the mental fortitude to examine their beliefs and admit they could be wrong.
Enough with the Vince Foster business.;-(
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:53am PT
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How about you make your case?
Make my case that his supporters are in denial about his racism and affinity for other white nationalist regimes?
Just by the fact they would still support him regardless. The fact he is a racist and is a white nationalist is way beyond dispute and you'd have to be suffering from said denial to believe otherwise.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 26, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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There are good people on both sides here.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
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Of course there are good people on both sides, but that's my point - that good people who still support trump are either duped, blind, oblivious or in denial.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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yes, much like Charlottesville
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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Make my case that his supporters are in denial about his racism and affinity for other white nationalist regimes?
Just by the fact they would still support him regardless. The fact he is a racist and is a white nationalist is way beyond dispute and you'd have to be suffering from said denial to believe otherwise.
Nice job, avoiding the issue.
Again. Explain how Trump is a devout white nationalist racist, who favors other white nationalist regimes.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
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Trump’s real-estate company tried to avoid renting apartments to African-Americans in the 1970s and gave preferential treatment to whites, according to the federal government.
*Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources. A former hotel executive said Trump criticized a black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.
He spent years suggesting that the nation’s first black president was born not in the United States but in Kenya, a lie that Trump still has not acknowledged as such.
Trump called Obama (who was editor in chief of the Harvard Law Review) “a terrible student, terrible.”
anyone who to this day does not believe Trump has been and continues to be an ignorant racist is well, just really stupid themself
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 26, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
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Trump called Obama (who was editor in chief of the Harvard Law Review) “a terrible student, terrible.”
Obama did not release his college or law school transcripts.
Under the theory that a president should release things that most people keep confidential just so we can see what they are or were up to (e.g., Trump's tax returns), and if they don't, it's because they are hiding something:
It would be reasonable to conclude that Obama's transcripts would not have been favorable.
There's a theory that Harvard basically gave Obama honors he didn't deserve on merit (remind anyone of a certain Nobel?), and neither Harvard or Obama wanted Obama's actual grades released because that would expose the affair. Not saying I believe this, just that it's out there.
If Obama really had top notch grades, it does seem likely he would have released them, especially since other presidential candidates have done so. (By the same token, I do think Trump's tax returns would expose all sorts of unsavory things.)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
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Obama did not release his college or law school transcripts.
Really?
I mean, is that really relevant to any discussion about Trump?
What other president, or top-level government official, has ever released their school transcripts?
And if someone ever has released a school transcript, why not also a copy of their entire SAT test, not just their score? How about their Presidential Fitness Report from high school, showing how many pull-ups they could do? What about how many gold stars they got in first grade? Why are they hiding that from the public? What did they learn, and when did they learn it?
Trump's not releasing his tax forms is highly relevant because disclosure of his finances, especially if he received Russian loans and investments, could reveal that Trump is a big, fat, stupid liar.
Oh, wait.
We already know that.
We don't need to see Trump's tax returns.
And, neither does Robert Mueller. But, I would guess that Mueller's going to subpoena them, anyway, after he examines Cohen's papers.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 26, 2018 - 02:44pm PT
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George W Bush was admitted to Yale in 1964 under an affirmative-action policy for children of alumni — what colleges call a “legacy” system. “Legacy” policies — preferential treatment of children of alumni
*Bush never released his high-school grades from Andover — an elite New England prep school that his father had also attended — or his SAT scores. But when The New Yorker got hold of Bush’s Yale records, it discovered that he scored a 566 on the verbal SAT and a 640 on the math SAT — 180 points below the median score for his Yale classmates
hp
Clearly, this proves that white people like George W Bush can only get into good colleges with the aid of Affirmative Action Programs
but George was a Credit to His Race, he did graduate in spite of low racial genetic intelligence.
FU, moron
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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Just in case...
"C#m laude" is a Latin term that translates to “with honor” in English. "Magna c#m laude" means “with great honor,” and "summa c#m laude" means “with greatest honor." In U.S. academics, the terms designate graduates who have distinguished themselves with exceptional grades or performances in a particular area of concentration or field of endeavor.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That cracks me up. Everything is so politically-correct these days, a latin phrase is censored as being obscene.
And Apu, on the The Simpson's TV show, is now persona non grata, after being on the show for 29 seasons.
I wrote an email to my father, explaining how a pimp takes his earnings to buy bling, so that additional ladies are attracted to him. He then pimps them to get more bling, to attract more ladies, to get more bling, and so forth.
My father suggested that my little story sounded racist.
I pointed out to him that the pimp I had in mind was a white country boy, and his bling was a big ol' belt buckle with a silver dollar in the middle, a $600 Stetson hat, and $6000 Kimodo Dragon-skin boots.
Not all that blings is gold.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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"C#m laude" is a Latin term that translates to “with honor” in English. "Magna c#m laude" means “with great honor,” and "summa c#m laude" means “with greatest honor." In U.S. academics, the terms designate graduates who have distinguished themselves with exceptional grades or performances in a particular area of concentration or field of endeavor.
The theory is Harvard gave Obama the honors without regard to his grades.
Harvard was heavily invested in politicizing having the first black (half black really, but who's counting) editor of their law review. That's clear from contemporaneous records.
Far fetched? Not nearly so much as the nonsense people have been spouting about Trump colluding with the Russkies (and so what if he did a little bit? Look at who Obama liked to hang out with (domestic terrorists)).
Anyway, Kerry released his transcripts, apparently with some reluctance (not surprising since he was a bad student).
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8127403/ns/politics/t/kerry-got-slow-start-yale-transcript-shows/#.WuJOe4jwaF4
If someone like Kerry ultimately fessed up to having crappy grades, we could reasonably guess that Obama's were somewhat worse, or he may have released them and said at least they weren't any worse that Kerry's. (Not saying they were, just that it would be reasonable speculation.)
Bush's grades were leaked. Could it have been the Russians who did it? Maybe with Kerry's collusion?
Oh and not that serving at Kingtut's beck and call is my highest priority, but I am glad he didn't have to wait long :)
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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False equivalence,just as I tried to point out earlier.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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Cuum laudanum
One man barfs at what another man swallows whole
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:28pm PT
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Fantasy....... the basic topic of this thread!
Keep at it, boys.
Just checking in.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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False equivalents
The output from Trump, Hannity, Fox News and InfoWars comprises an omnia exempla of logical fallacies and defective arguments.
Entire textbooks on logic, reason and rhetoric could be based on corrections to just a few days' output from those guys.
you're confusing "hypothesis" with "theory"
And, don't confuse "hypothesis" with "dementhesis", which is a demented hypothesis.
EDIT: I corrected my defective Latin.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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blahblah, you're confusing "hypothesis" with "theory". There are no facts to support your hypothesis, so it's not a theory. Fantasy may be a better word for it.
About the only real "facts" we have is that Obama refused to release his transcripts, notwithstanding that they were the subject of legitimate public interest and there was clear recent precedent to release college transcripts for presidential candidates.
I don't know how they do it in your country, but I can tell you that in the US, people who graduate from law schools generally provide transcripts to potential employers.
Isn't a presidential candidate looking for a job from the American people?
I would say it's almost certain that Obama's actual grades were worse than what he calculated people would assume they were. That's why he didn't release them.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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The output from TOM, and his main loon media brainwashing, Trump, Hannity, Fox News, InfoWars and much of the GOP comprises a veritable nosology of logical fallacies and defective arguments.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
Apr 26, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
Trump’s real-estate company tried to avoid renting apartments to African-Americans in the 1970s and gave preferential treatment to whites, according to the federal government.
*Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources. A former hotel executive said Trump criticized a black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.
He spent years suggesting that the nation’s first black president was born not in the United States but in Kenya, a lie that Trump still has not acknowledged as such.
Trump called Obama (who was editor in chief of the Harvard Law Review) “a terrible student, terrible.”
anyone who to this day does not believe Trump has been and continues to be an ignorant racist is well, just really stupid themself
Good stuff Norton. Got anything more recent than 25 years ago.
xcon - loved the dog-whistle, barely connected dots about Trump's trip to Poland. Comical seeing how it was pieced together.
Your "proof" about Trump being a racist is little more than all the Trump haters keep repeating it, so it must be true. fits the narrative.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:36pm PT
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"He doesn't have a plane you ass_hole" Cosby snapped back.
So I guess Cosby didn't fly tRump outa Russia before the show
I wonder if any of those pee pee gals were drugged? Was the plane searched for latex gloves?
You can't touch that
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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Is it love?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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Maybe I'm not old enough to have paid attention to long term cycles in politics... but have we ever been through a time where so many people are focused on real or imagined faults of prior office-holders or candidates when egregious faults are on full display at the present? Is it just repeating the arguments put out by the propaganda machines?
Even if various allegations/hypotheses about former presidents or former candidates were true... does that make it ok that we are experiencing the dismantling of institutions, which will make it harder for most us to pursue happiness and prosperity while protecting those who march to the beat of a different drummer? Is the implied basis of the deflection arguments that our political leaders have always been very screwed up and so we should just accept the screwed-up-ness of our present leaders and the policy decisions that they entail?
Just a little bit of thought should lead folks to question the parroting of petty ideas that distract from the important issues that affect us all.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
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Yeah, like the fact the president is a traitor.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
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The wingnuts have dug deep into their conspiracy playbook today. Vince Foster and Obama's grades. Oh my!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:32pm PT
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The wingnuts
You definately are one of them .....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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"Where's the beef" crowd should realize that Sometimes it's a long and complicated process to connect up all the dots.
JJ is said to be claiming that it's all A big witch hunt
Quote Here Sacramento investigators tracked down East Area Rapist suspect Joseph James DeAngelo using genealogical websites that contained genetic information from a relative, the Sacramento County District Attorney's Office confirmed Thursday.
The effort was part of a painstaking process that began by using DNA from one of the crime scenes from years ago and comparing it to genetic profiles available online through various websites that cater to individuals wanting to know more about their family backgrounds by accepting DNA samples from them, said Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Grippi.
The investigation was conducted over a long period of time as officials in Sacramento County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert's office and crime lab explored online family trees that appeared to have matches to DNA samples from the East Area Rapist's crimes, Grippi said. They then followed clues to individuals in the family trees to determine whether they were potential suspects.
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article209913514.html#storylink=cpy
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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If trump was a democrat, impeachment proceedings would have flown through the house six months ago.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:35pm PT
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We love you too, brawny!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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!@!@!@
That should be national headline news, and a springboard for a conversation about our democracy, the polarization of two dominant parties, and the way it hurts most people who support either of the dominant parties in our country.
Instead, we have reached a level of societal beat-down that a strong majority of us don't expect or strive for more.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
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The last one was lost becasue progressives adopted the fringe-right's Hillary narrative as their own and then turned their noses up at her in significant enough numbers to lose. And as icing on the cake, their ceaseless droning managed to turn off young people and minorities from voting at all.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
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If trump was a democrat, impeachment proceedings would have flown through the house sixteen months ago
Fixed it for you.
Kanye West, who regularly deviates from reality, Tweeted this a few days ago:
Bill Cosby Innocent!!!!!!!!!!!
Kanye also Tweeted that he and Trump have "Dragon Energy", which is an upgrade from Charlie Sheen's Vatican Assassin Warlock Tiger Blood.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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X has a really good point. I still think they f ucked up by screwing Bernie. Hillary was a (obviously) terrible candidate.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
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I believe Kanye is releasing an album in the near future which explains all the outrageousness.
The thing he and Trump have in common is that they share the rare talent of attracting the admiration of legions of human manatees.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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There's a theory that Harvard basically gave Obama honors he didn't deserve on merit (remind anyone of a certain Nobel?), and neither Harvard or Obama wanted Obama's actual grades released because that would expose the affair. Not saying I believe this, just that it's out there.
blabby - You obviously know nothing about how law schools operate. editor of the harvard law review is about 100 times a greater honor than any good grades. If appointing him editor was a scam to elevate an unknown black man / Manchurian candidate then the grades would have been fixed too. Law school grades mean absolutely nothing in the real world.
Meanwhile Trump went through Wharton? Doubtful he completed the class work, his grasp of economics is mind numbing.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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if by dragon energy you mean babydick, then, yeah, sure.
HealyJ, why are the hardest HRC supporters I know, including women of your generation, re-registering as Independents?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
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HealyJ, why are the hardest HRC supporters I know, including women of your generation, re-registering as Independents?
Because they want to ensure a gop majority in the house in November and re-elect trump in 2020.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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And there it is. Elect our garbage insider candidate or you'll get their garbage candidate.
And let's ignore 45% of our base and pick Timmy Kaine as VP.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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But, but Bernie couldn't have been elected!
Apparently Hillary couldn't either.
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john hansen
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
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Fox and friends interview,,, or rant.
How many diet cokes did he have this morning?
This guy is a raving lunatic. Repeating the same 20 talking points ,and stock lines.
I think even the anchors were stunned and embarrassed ...
I dare you to watch the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lu_Hgw60Ns
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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This headline is from today, but it could have been from any time in the past 30 years:
Entering Trump's orbit often ends with a crash landing
Trump is definitely getting close to a full-scale neurological meltdown. Voluntarily disclosing incriminating information about oneself is normally something that is done in a lawyer's office, or in a confessional, and not on the telephone with Fox and Friends during a live television broadcast.
As the pressure builds, and Trump's battle with reality becomes more and more untenable, his frontal lobes, which control complex thought and voluntary behavior, will begin to shut down as a defense mechanism. The conflicts within his own mind will be recognized as a threat to survival, and the brain will compensate by shutting down dysfunctioning cerebral regions. Partial loss of cerebellar function, which controls balance and coordination, may result in the president falling over. The brain stem will ultimately seize primary neurological control of the organism, to maintain homeostasis.
EDITED - to amend style, not content.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
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*George W Bush was admitted to Yale in 1964 under an affirmative-action policy for children of alumni — what colleges call a “legacy” system. “Legacy” policies — preferential treatment of children of alumni
*Bush never released his high-school grades from Andover — an elite New England prep school that his father had also attended — or his SAT scores. But when The New Yorker got hold of Bush’s Yale records, it discovered that he scored a 566 on the verbal SAT and a 640 on the math SAT — 180 points below the median score for his Yale classmates
Clearly, this proves that white people like George W Bush can only get into good colleges with the aid of Affirmative Action Programs
but George was a Credit to His Race, he did graduate in spite of low racial genetic intelligence.
The original poster causing this "affirmative action" nonsense talk is a racist who still can't handle an only half white man being President, hence his constant Obama Derangement
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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there is no logical basis for an assertion that the editor of the Harvard Law review was given any preference whatsoever or an assumption that his grades must be worse than Kerry's, unless you are simply a racist.
suck on that one, blah
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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Say what you will about Dubya's brain-genes, he's got a smokin' hot sister, in a Jeffrey Tambor kinda way.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
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Blahblah! I can only sigh for your continued attempts to demean Obama on this thread.
Do you have any idea how sick & racist all your carefully-worded protests look to anyone, but another racist.
Schist duede! I live in Idaho & I'm a Republican & your posts still stink of hate for Obama, but also your own racism, however you try to slyly mention that you are just quoting other (racist) sources.
From Blahblah: There's a theory that Harvard basically gave Obama honors he didn't deserve on merit (remind anyone of a certain Nobel?), and neither Harvard or Obama wanted Obama's actual grades released because that would expose the affair. **Not saying I believe this, just that it's out there.
**
If Obama really had top notch grades, it does seem likely he would have released them, especially since other presidential candidates have done so. (By the same token, I do think Trump's tax returns would expose all sorts of unsavory things.)
As Jon Beck mentions:
blabby - You obviously know nothing about how law schools operate. editor of the harvard law review is about 100 times a greater honor than any good grades. If appointing him editor was a scam to elevate an unknown black man / Manchurian candidate then the grades would have been fixed too. Law school grades mean absolutely nothing in the real world.
Meanwhile Trump went through Wharton? Doubtful he completed the class work, his grasp of economics is mind numbing.
And Blahblah whines about Obama some more:
The theory is Harvard gave Obama the honors without regard to his grades.
Harvard was heavily invested in politicizing having the first black (half black really, but who's counting) editor of their law review. That's clear from contemporaneous records.
About the only real "facts" we have is that Obama refused to release his transcripts, notwithstanding that they were the subject of legitimate public interest and there was clear recent precedent to release college transcripts for presidential candidates.
I don't know how they do it in your country, but I can tell you that in the US, people who graduate from law schools generally provide transcripts to potential employers.
Isn't a presidential candidate looking for a job from the American people?
**I would say it's almost certain that Obama's actual grades were worse than what he calculated people would assume they were. That's why he didn't release them.
**
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
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About the only real "facts" we have is that Obama refused to release his transcripts, notwithstanding that they were the subject of legitimate public interest Where is Trump's transcript? Turn about's fair play.......
And where are Trump's taxes? They would seem to be 'the subject of legitimate public interest'. Even more than grades.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2018 - 11:34pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have a vewy gweat fweind in Wosemite named Biggus Tickus. He is a vewy gweat quack quimer.
How did everyone else miss that QUACK = CRACK? I certainly did, until just now.
The great thing about a discussion / comedy roundtable is that ideas get thrown around, and everybody gets the opportunity to feed off of something that's new to them.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 27, 2018 - 12:06am PT
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About the only real "facts" we have is that Obama refused to release his transcripts, notwithstanding that they were the subject of legitimate public interest
Trump can’t even get right what school he went to, much less claim grades from it.
He keeps saying he graduated from Wharton business school when he did not.
That’s a grad school - probably the best business school in the World.
His degree is a BA in economics, not business, from the much less prestigious Wharton school of the university of Pennsylvania after two years at Fordham.
He also claimed to graduate first in his class, which he also did not. He didn’t even make the deans list, which is published each year by the university newspaper.
See for yourself.
https://dparchives.library.upenn.edu/cgi-bin/pennsylvania?a=d&d=tdp19681025-01.2.27
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Apr 27, 2018 - 12:11am PT
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ok. so, i willingly took the hansen challenge. and watched the whole fox and friends “interview”... or more correctly “deranged old man rant”.
i went in expecting to be bored by the same ole, same ole...
but, damn.
that shIt was next level.
when one can watch, in explicit and horrifyingly slow motion, the last bit of remaining soul, that had been inside of the made up doofusi behind the camera, slowly and excruciatingly leave their bodies...
well, you have to know this whole show is headed to an even stranger collective place than it has already been.
that’s because in the end this has never been, nor is it currently, about trump.
it’s about the collision course the u.s. has been on, for decades now, with the collective lies it tells itself and which grow unsustainable when sedentary manifest destiny runs out of the easily exploitable and instead faces off, as every empire before it has inevitably faced off, with a/the final frontier of futilely attempting to domesticate the nomadic [and to be clear that doesn’t refer to the arabic]..
and so instead of facing that truth, here we are once again proving the depth of one of the many truths expressed by mencken:
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
[and anybody who thinks the immediately preceding statement applies to republicans more than democrats - or democrats more than republicans for that matter - has the long term attention span of a gnat.]
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 27, 2018 - 02:22am PT
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I tried to listen to what he said, but I was too distracted by the expressions on the faces of the “ friends”.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 27, 2018 - 06:48am PT
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Bernie is more Libtard than Hilliary, but is not as corrupted.
He's still a commie though.
Cosmic, You don’t actually know the definition for “commie” do you.
Something that I’ve noticed about many of the most vociferous defenders of the United States of America is that they don’t know much about civics.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 27, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 27, 2018 - 07:48am PT
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Commie means bringing the things we used to have back to America
Like affordable medical care
Free Collage, well funded k-12
Good Social Services
no homeless begging for change
Good paying jobs and affordale housing
clean air and water
Not provide insane amounts of money to the Military Industrial Complex, invest that money into America infrastructure
Republicans hate these things, only the commie libtarbs fight for these socialist civilized entitlements
Cosmic wants High Medical costs, so when he hits 65, he can give us the middle finger, and say "suckers.... now you have to pay the high costs that I put off so I could get my free newly obtained socialized medicine"
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 27, 2018 - 07:59am PT
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Malemute! Ree your post & the link:
The 53 most stunning lines is pretty amazing. We have the most amazing president!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 27, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Red Meat is inflicting pain on the afflicted
and lying about all the good you're doing
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 27, 2018 - 09:18am PT
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This is not a civic?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 27, 2018 - 09:34am PT
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Doonesbury pegs it with this cartoon!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 27, 2018 - 09:40am PT
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Craig Fry
Apr 27, 2018 - 07:48am PT
Commie means bringing the things we used to have back to America
Like affordable medical care
Free Collage, well funded k-12
LULZ
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 27, 2018 - 10:37am PT
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No, Putin already has Sarah Huckabee Sanders for that job.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 27, 2018 - 10:58am PT
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Doonesbury pegs it with this cartoon!
I didn't know Doonesbury made it past 2000, much less that it's apparently still around.
And the winner of today's coveted SuperTopo old fart of the day award is . . . .
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
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We have the most amazing president!
Amazing
adjective
causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing.
Trump is truly amazing. His behavioral nadirs are astonishing.
Everyone should be awake and aware.
This is not something that happens once in a lifetime. It's something that doesn't even happen every two hundred years.
We are witness to history. The future will look back at this and say, "Dang!"
The balance of power that the Founding Fathers wrote into the Constitution has been subverted and perverted by a bipolar political party system. Congress was intended to have a check on the power of the presidency, but Trump's party controls both houses, and they won't exercise their Constitutional mandate to stop a madman. Trump can wave his dick around at the country, and he won't lose any GOP support.
#SAD!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As the noose tightens, and the petri dish fills to capacity, the conditions necessary for the reappearance of an anti-Christ become more and more saturated.
It is well established that animals in captivity become stressed and sociopathic when crowded beyond a certain point. People have reached that point.
There is a simple solution to the over-population problem: stop f*#king, you horny bastards!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 27, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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Soloists don't need no stinkin' pro
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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The oldest method of birth control is bad aim. The Greeks mastered it, and the Romans took it to a new level.
Somehow, in the past 20-odd years that I have been asleep, it has become fashionable in the United States.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
They don't vote Republican because it works for them.
They vote Republican because they wish they had a lot of money.
If they had a lot of money, the Republican agenda would benefit them.
Most Republican voters are acting in the context of a future situation that will never materialize.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 27, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
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you guys are giving conservatives bad cover on this thread
all you can come up with is photoshopping Craig Fry
all you can come up with is racist fixations on the past President?
small things amuse small minds.....
what you all should be doing is defending those grand and sweeping reasons why you vote Republican!
tell us how "limited government" and "cutting regulations" is making your own lives better!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 27, 2018 - 03:27pm PT
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OK Norton, how about this:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3082711/End-of-Korean-war
Lorenzo apparently felt this was significant enough to start a separate ST political thread on, but maybe it really belonged here.
DT seems to have done more to at least start to solve the very serious Korean problem than than the last three of four administrations combined.
(And how's that for not picking on Obama? It's true he did absolutely nothing to solve the problem, but then neither did the Bushes or Clinton, so he sorta gets a pass on that one.)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Apr 27, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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you are a nauseating racist, fixated with an only half white President
grow up, we are are pulling for you
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 27, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
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I’m ok with his racism because he’s draining the swamp!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 27, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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He's draining the swamp!
Does that mean you'll you will soon disappear?
:-)
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 27, 2018 - 06:21pm PT
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Apr 27, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
He's draining the swamp!
Does that mean you'll you will soon disappear?
N’ah, I’m sorry to say that ducks are more likely to be hurt by swamp draining.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 28, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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Here's Trump, the blatantly racist, getting kudos from Robert Johnson.
BET founder Robert L. Johnson, America’s first black billionaire, said during a CNBC appearance on Friday that black Americans should be encouraged by the growing economy under President Trump.
“Something is going right,” said Johnson, owner and chairman of Bethesda-based asset management firm RLJ Companies.
He cited the December jobs report showing that unemployment among black workers was at its lowest since the Labor Department began tracking the data in 1972.
Black unemployment did fall to 6.8 percent in December, before rising and dipping again to 6.9 percent in March, according to the latest jobs numbers released Friday. But black unemployment remains nearly double the white unemployment rate of 3.6 percent, even though the gap has narrowed somewhat.
Johnson, during his appearance on “Squawk Box” on Friday morning before the March jobs report was released, was optimistic about how black Americans will continue to fare economically.
"You have to take encouragement from what's happening in the labor force and the job market," Johnson said. "When you look at African American unemployment, in over 50 years since the Bureau of Labor Statistics has been keeping the numbers, you've never had two things: African American unemployment this low and the spread between unemployment among whites and African Americans narrowing.
Johnson said he continues to have access to top administration officials -- including Trump himself during a meeting last week in Florida -- who he speaks with regularly about improving the economic lives of African Americans. Among the issues he said he's engaged them on are encouraging black workers to save for retirement and keeping black-owned banks solvent so poor communities would have access to capital.
Johnson, a Democrat and supporter of Hillary Clinton, had previously penned an essay on how African American voters should respond to the “tectonic political rift” resulting in Trump’s election.
“Why shouldn't we, as Black voters, reject the notion that we are locked into one party which undoubtedly limits and dilutes our voting power? We should, instead, use the power of our vote to support and elect whichever party that best serves our interests,” Johnson wrote.
He went on to quote former representative William Lacy Clay Sr. (D-Mo.), who formed the Congressional Black Caucus in 1971: "Black people have no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, just permanent interests."
“That was the CBC motto then and Black Americans should embrace it as our rallying cry today,” Johnson wrote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/07/americas-first-black-billionaire-says-trump-economy-benefits-black-americans/?utm_term=.eb33c560e654
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 28, 2018 - 09:12am PT
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For sure...Just look what Ben Carson is proposing for HUD...Now that the blacks are rolling in employment they will be able to help pay down the Trump tax break for the rich deficit...Times are good...MAGA...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 28, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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So Kanye West is an uncle tom?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 29, 2018 - 07:44am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 29, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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The good Job report for blacks is all part of Obama's legacy
Trump hasn't done a single thing to help blacks or the employment numbers
actually the trend that Obama started has waned since Trump
And Johnson is correct, Blacks should vote for the best party for blacks, and that is the Democratic Party, he didn't say any Black should have voted for trump or be a Republican voter, he's not an idiot
Where can we get some of that Dragon Energy Kanye and Trump have???
oh wait a second, maybe it's the dragon energy that makes both of those idiots such narcissists...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 29, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Black Jobs Matter...Then there's the article where Trump was discriminating against women employees at his golf courses who didn't meet his standards for being attractive...Shocker...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Apr 29, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, told President Moon Jae-in of South Korea when they met that he would abandon his nuclear weapons if the United States would agree to formally end the Korean War and promise that it would not invade his country, a South Korean government spokesman said Sunday.
Clearly, President Trump had nothing to do with this recent detente.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 29, 2018 - 09:21am PT
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FBI questions Russian MMA fighter who fought in the short lived Affliction league...Mike Cohen was CFO for the league which Trump had financial interests in...Putin was seen at these fights...I'm sure Trump never talked with Putin...witch hunt...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 29, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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It's funny that the National Enquirer is now Trumps mouth piece! The originator of fake news!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 29, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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So you don't have to look it up
The durian is a tropical fruit known for its strong, stinky smell.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
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Trumpdate late April, 2018:
Trump's supporters say he deserves the Nobel Prize for fixing the North Korean situation. North Korea's underground nuclear bomb testing facility has collapsed after a series of earthquakes were triggered by test explosions. Satellite images of the site appear to confirm that the facility is no longer usable. As a result, North Korea has said it is suspending its nuclear testing program. Trump insists he did it all by himself.
White House Doctor Ronny Jackson was Trump's nominee to head the Veteran's Affairs Department, which is the second-largest bureaucracy in the nation. Jackson was forced to withdraw from consideration after numerous sordid allegations about him surfaced. One amusing anecdote had the Good Doctor walking up and down the aisles of Air Force one, handing out prescription medication to any White House staffers who held their hands out. Staffers called him "The Candy Man" for his propensity to pass out drugs indiscriminately, some of which, such as Percocet and Ambien, are dangerously addictive.
Scott Pruitt, Trump's EPA chief, was questioned by lawmakers regarding at least ten different scandals involving violations of Federal law, padding associates' paychecks, receiving bribes from lobbyists, excessive spending, misusing government resources, abusing his power of office and lying to investigators. Pruitt's typical responses to the allegations were that somebody else - not him - must have done those things.
Trump phoned into Fox and Friends for 30 minutes, at times babbling angrily, repetitively and incoherently. The show's hosts eventually cut off his rambling diatribes and hung up on him. Less than one hour later, Federal prosecutors in New York filed legal motions, citing Trump's statements that that Michael Cohen only did "a tiny, tiny" amount of legal work for him. Similarly, Trump said that Michael Cohen represented and represents him in "this crazy Stormy Daniels deal", eviscerating what little chance Trump's lawyers had for success in that ongoing litigation.
Trump Tower in Baku, a construction project funded by a corrupt Azerbaijan oligarch, caught fire twice on the same day. The first blaze burned through much of the building before firefighters could put it out; later that same evening, a second blaze further destroyed the building. Azerbaijan fire officials have not yet accused anyone of arson or insurance fraud. Trump sought to distance himself from the project right after he was elected, because U.S. State Department officials had been warning him, since at least 2008, that his business partners were multinational criminals. Trump's Azerbaijan business partners are closely aligned to Vladimir Putin, the Kremlin and Iran's Revolutionary Guard. Trump has exhibited favoritism towards those groups by minimizing enforcement of sanctions and other penalties.
- Comedian Michelle Wolf hosted the annual White House Correspondents' Association Dinner, which Trump avoided (again) by going to a rally of his supporters in Michigan. White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was on the dais only a few feet from Wolf, who proceeded to insult, vilify and ridicule her to her face. Wolf's off-color, anti-Trump comedy routine left members of the audience sometimes silent and sometimes gasping in astonishment. At one point, Wolf compared the president's daughter, Ivanka, to an empty box of tampons, and said that she and the president were both unable to satisfy women.
Wolf's first joke of the night was, "Like a porn star says when she's about to have sex with a Trump, let's get this over with."
Wolf's last joke of the night was, "Donald Trump is so broke, he grabs pussies because he thinks there might be loose change in them."
Early into her routine, Wolf pointed out, "Yeah, shoulda done more research before you got me to do this."
EDITED TO ADDRESS COMPLAINTS
Here are some articles supporting the above statements and observations.
In my day, we were expected to read and understand information ourselves, not just have sound bites spoon-fed to us.
The idea was that someone would present enough to interest you in a subject, and then you'd go learn about it
She (Ivanka Trump) was supposed to be an advocate for women, but it turns out she’s about as helpful to women as an empty box of tampons. She’s done nothing to satisfy women. So I guess, like father like daughter.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/north-korea-nuclear-test-site-collapse-may-be-out-of-action-china
http://www.newsweek.com/chants-nobel-greet-trump-michigan-rally-following-north-korea-peace-talks-905177
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/27/trump-nobel-peace-prize-messer-says/559547002/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/us/politics/ronny-jackson-veterans-affairs-nomination.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ronny-jackson-withdraws-as-trumps-nominee-to-lead-veterans-affairs/2018/04/26/5a343806-48f6-11e8-9072-f6d4bc32f223_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2018/04/26/scott-pruitt-braces-for-tough-questions-at-double-hearings-on-capitol-hill/
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/politics/pruitt-house-hearings/index.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/04/26/trumps-unwieldy-fox-and-friends-interview-annotated/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/trumps-fox-news-interview-cited-by-us-attorneys-in-new-court-filing-on-cohen-case
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/28/world/asia/fire-trump-tower-azerbaijan.html
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-iran-business-ties-trump-didnt-disclose
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-azerbaijan-hotel-linked-with-corruption-iran-2017-3
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/10/ivanka-trump-played-key-role-in-her-fathers-failed-and-potentially-corrupt-azerbaijan-hotel-deal-report-says/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/04/29/michelle-wolfs-caustic-comedy-routine-at-the-white-house-correspondents-dinner-annotated/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/29/business/media/michelle-wolfs-routine-sets-off-a-furor-at-an-annual-washington-dinner.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/michelle-wolfs-white-correspondents-dinner-monologue-takes-aim-at-sarah-huckabee-sanders-trump-administration.html
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 29, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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More nutcase brainwashed horsesh!t from Tom the politard loon.
You're just as bad as Hannity and the rest of the fruitcake loons with all the Russiaphobia bullsh!t.
You're actually dumber than TRump, because you're smart enough to be st00pid but have zero intelligence.
There's a huge difference between smart and intelligence of which you have none ......
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wallonawall
Sport climber
Virginia
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Apr 29, 2018 - 04:42pm PT
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You know you have a good post when there are quoted snippets with proper citations
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 29, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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Just read Michelle Wolf's speech and it's brilliant. Not sure what the "furor" was about.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The "furor" was just some fake partisan indignity, and just one more example of conservative double-standard hypocrisy. It's who they are.
Trump regularly bashes the media when pushing forth his fraudulent alternative reality. Trump has repeatedly used offensive, abusive, caustic and defaming statements about reporters and news organizations that report factually about events.
Now, Michelle Wolf comes forth, and gives back some of the same aggressive rhetoric, and the conservatives go frickin' crazy.
It's like when the Republicans complain that Ronny Jackson can't get a fair hearing to confirm his nomination as VA chief. But, the Republicans refused to give Garland Merrick, Obama's Supreme Court pick, any kind of hearing whatsoever.
And, it's like when the Republicans oppose abortion, unless it's an abortion to go with a $1.6 million payoff to keep a pregnant Playboy bunny from going public about her extramarital affair with a top RNC fundraiser.
Double standards and hypocrisy are part and parcel to the GOP's dysfunctional approach to public service. Or, more accurately, it's part of a bigger plan to subjugate the lower classes, weaken them, and move more power to the people at the top.
It is truly amazing, to me, that there are so many people in this nation who are easily duped and stupefied by what the GOP feeds them. But, they are the easy prey that the GOP is relying on to advance their plutocratic agenda.
There is an educational crisis in this country, and it's no coincidence that the GOP's pick for Secretary of Education is Ditzy Davos, a billion-dollar trust fund heiress.
Yes.
The Republicans cry when their pussies get grabbed: Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, Trump
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 29, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
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Republicans are just more sensitive than libtards...That's why they cry like little bitches when someone grabs their pussies..
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 29, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
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Double standards are part and parcel to the GOP's hypocritical dysfunction.
That is true. But you can replace "GOP's" in that statement with "Democrats'" and it does not become any less true.
And move to pretty much any other country, and replace "GOP's" with whatever political party, and it still stays true.
I suppose you could find exceptions -- fringe parties from the very far-right and far-left (or very far whatever) are sometimes less dishonest and more true to their stated ideals, but who wants to be ruled by Nazis or commumists?
If you are fed up with the hypocriticial dysfunction of the other guys, good for you. But don't forget to take a good look into the mirror.
I don't have the answer, but I'm pretty sure dumping on the other guys and whitewashing your guys isn't it.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 29, 2018 - 09:29pm PT
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Trump's supporters say he deserves the Nobel Prize for fixing the North Korean situation Xi Jing Ping, of China, should get it. drumpf didn't do anything.
btw, trump is the ultimate snowflake.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 29, 2018 - 11:41pm PT
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The "furor" was just some fake partisan indignity, and just one more example of conservative double-standard hypocrisy. It's who they are.
Trump regularly bashes the media when pushing forth his fraudulent alternative reality. Trump has repeatedly used offensive, abusive, caustic and defaming statements about reporters and news organizations that report factually about events.
Now, Michelle Wolf comes forth, and gives back some of the same aggressive rhetoric, and the conservatives go frickin' crazy.
Not true. There are a lot of people who are moderates, who are repelled by the personal, particularly vile attacks.
You wonder about the standing of women, who complain about the objectification of their physical appearance, who take the opportunity to attack the physical appearance of opponent women.
When you see liberals complain about how inappropriate and gross Trump often is, you don't claim the moral high ground, and appeal to those to whom you have been appealing, by getting down into the gutter, too.
It feeds into the poisonous rhetoric that there is no difference between the two sides.......
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2018 - 12:19am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was a little shocked by Michelle Wolf's routine myself.
First, I was shocked that Michelle Wolf had been asked to perform at the event. I've seen her a dozen times on Comedy Central, and she's mildly NSFW, to put it mildly. Her bias always made me laugh, like she was the anti-Andrew Dice Clay, or something.
To host the WHCA dinner show show, I figured some writers would be hired to tame her down a bit. But, Ms. Wolf just came right out, and said that Trump is so sexually repellent, he can make a porn star grimace before he even touches her.
Even Wolf was aware that she didn't belong there. About a third of the way through her routine, she suggested that whomever hired her had never seen her perform before.
Xi Jing Ping, of China, should get it. drumpf didn't do anything.
Fidel and Raul Castro probably had some influence, too. North Korea is essentially the last Stalinist nation. With China and Cuba opening up to the rest of the world, North Korea was becoming more and more isolated.
The Iran deal may have encouraged them that the U.S. is not just a global bully.
Twitter rants, epithets and insults are probably far down the list of things that led to the summit with South Korea. If anything, I would guess that Trump is going to screw the whole thing up by cancelling the Iranian deal, or by doing something outrageous to push himself to the forefront of the situation.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 30, 2018 - 12:54am PT
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She had some cringeworthy moments (only because the people she was roasting were there and it was true) but much of it was hilarious and it was clearly portrayed through the audience reaction.
I honestly liked her much better last night (2 nights ago) than when she was doing bits on the daily show.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 30, 2018 - 02:07am PT
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^^^ Political analysis at its finest.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 30, 2018 - 08:17am PT
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If anything, I would guess that Trump is going to screw the whole thing up
I still think that Kim Jung-un will make a fool out of trump. Contrary to what he says about himself, trump is not that bright.
He will probably have bolton, or pompeo explain to him what is going on.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 30, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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Both Trump and Sanders are habitual liars and their routine has become accepted behavior based on the tell a lie enough times theorem.. The only humor in her skit was calling a spade a spade by calling Sanders what she is , a liar...Boo hoo...Get over it snowflake trumpies...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2018 - 11:44am PT
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The video below is a great example of a talking head, Matt Schlapp, trying to justify a double-standard hypocritical conservative position.
Matt Schlapp, a die-hard GOP guy, walked out on Michelle Wolf during the WHCA dinner. Here he attempts to demonstrate that Wolf's comedy routine was inappropriate, but that he's fine with Trump doing worse during the campaign, and as president.
Mama always said, FOS is, as FOS does. - - - Forrest Trump
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The video low offers no useful information, just innane ranting, and out-of-context video clips. It could be used for a pop quiz in a logic class: identify and correct all flawed logic and defective arguments. It appears to be a typical piece of RT/FSB troll propaganda. ENJOY!
HA! I called B.S. on a video posted by XYZ, which used to be below this post, and it's been taken down. Another minor victory in the Battle for Reality.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 30, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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And what say you Little Marco?
MARCO RUBIO: There's 'no evidence whatsoever' that Trump's tax bill has helped American workers
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 30, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
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Trump's tax break for the little people is a carrot without the stick...
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nah000
climber
now/here
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
ridiculing of ms. huckabee’s appearance?
she said she had a “perfect smokey eye”...
sounds like a compliment to me.
disrespectful of ms. huckabee by saying she lies while she’s seated at the same head table?
i guess we should have given equal time to baghdad bob while he claimed the iraqis were winning.
cause anybody who calls what regularly comes out of the white house press secretary’s mouth “spin” is part of the problem.
that whole act by ms wolf was the most masterful w.h. correspondent’s dinner “roast” since colbert stood next to dubya and said the emperor has no clothes. [with the main difference being that trump is too much of a limp dick to even show up]
and so the whole act could not have been more appropriate given the current context.
when you have a leader who speaks of grabbing women by the pussy, then defends it by saying that was locker room talk all while having dozens of claims of harassment and worse against them? and that’s only the start of the lowest hanging fruit?
well... given who is the head leader of the current group of lying sycophants collectively “leading” the u.s.:
ms. wolf nailed it out of the park.
kudos.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Fascists Compete To Own America
Now might be a really good time to examine the origins and nature of the whole right-wing collusion between business and government
by Thom Hartmann
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/04/30/fascists-compete-own-america
Given how reactive hard right snowflakes have gotten in response to a few truth-based jokes from Michelle Wolf, and that Mick Mulvaney has confessed to running a pay-for-play operation out of his congressional office, and Trump is daily breaking the Constitution’s emoluments clause, now might be a really good time to examine the origins and nature of the whole right-wing business/government model known as “fascism.”
“The really dangerous American fascists,” Wallace wrote, “are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information.”
And continued, “With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.” Vice President Henry Wallace, 1944
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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They have perfected the art of propaganda
We have First Amendment Protection of the finest propaganda production in the history of mankind
Billions of Republican dollars are spent on think tanks, messaging and media outlets that spout the State Sponsored talking points
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Most Republicans here can easily fend off the accusation of being a Trump supporter, even though they voted for him
It's easy for them to call him a clown, and idiot, a moron
but the choice was clear, for them, the hate for Hillary could not be overcome, anything was better than Hillary
Why did they think that?
The billion dollar smear campaign worked on them
It will work on them next time with a whole new set of clowns
Both sides are not the same, our side will be smeared to high heaven, resist the lies
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Bald-faced lying is the default political tactic and strategy for this crew and how they got to where they are in the first place.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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"What knowledge did you (Trump) have of any outreach by your presidential campaign, including Manafort, to Russia about possible assistance to the campaign?"
Prosecutors never ask questions when they don't know the answers...
Ummm, that little legal bon mot relates to cross examining a witness at trial (and it's not really prosecutor specific), not with discovery (formal or otherwise). (And of course, it's not strictly true, especially when you throw "never" in there, although I suppose it's a useful generalization.)
How do you think the prosecutors (or other lawyers) know the answers to the questions they ask?
But now I should be "corrected" by Kingtut and the rest of the ST know-it-alls . . . .
They need to speak up on the record. A lot of other republicans feel the same way but are too cowardly to say or do anything.
If there were any credible evidence of "collusion," I may be inclined to agree. But since there isn't, what "needs" to happen is Mueller's gotta wrap it up or get his arse canned.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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get his arse canned
Why do you say this? What is your credible evidence that there is a legal need to fire him?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Why do you say this? What is your credible evidence that there is a legal need to fire him?
I didn't say there was a legal need. I put "need" in quotes just to parrot the language of an earlier poster who was saying what "needed" to happen as a way, I suppose, of saying what that poser would simply like to see.
Mueller's been there for about a year now, it's just time to wrap it up one way or another. I don't believe there's any precedent to having something like a permanent special counsel who has the job of investigating whatever he feels like for the term of a presidency. (I suppose with Ken Starr and Slick Willie it was sorta similar, but remember he actually caught Clinton himself, not just hanger-ons.)
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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If there were any credible evidence of "collusion,"
Well given that "collision" is not a legal term but everyone knows what we're talking about: Kushner and others met with Russian operatives who offered dirt on Clinton. That's not proof but it's certainly credible evidence, that demands an investigation. If you can't admit that you are fooling yourself.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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We all wish Mueller would wrap it up soon
and throw Trump and his mob family in prison
I don't know how longer this country can take the disgrace of him and his corruption
Then we just got to get rid of the rest of the Republicans colluding with Russia, colluding with the mob, and colluding with the Koch Brothers billions and then we can become a decent country once again.
They are nothing more than Transaction Party of money for policy.
Money Trumps all consideration of ethics and morality
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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And Trump wouldn't have an audience for his lies if this latest phase of the industrial revolution wasn't tearing up the manufacturing base in the heartland of middle America, making a lot of workers obsolete or redundant.
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dirtbag
climber
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I haven’t made up my mind on trump’s involvement in any collusion with Russians. I haven’t seen any evidence of it, although his underlings are up to their armpits in unsavory Russian associations. The truth is, we simply don’t know what evidence mueller has, and investigations like this take a lot of time. With that said, mueller does have quite a bit of evidence of obstruction, which largely undid Nixon. And trump has always acted in a very suspicious manner, which begs the question as to why trump is constantly lying and trying to get investigators to drop the matter.
I do not understand the impulse to can mueller soon except to cover trump’s big orange butt.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Using stolen e-mails from the DNC in your campaign is a crime
"I Love WikiLeaks"
DT
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Using stolen e-mails from the DNC in your campaign is a crime
"I Love WikiLeaks"
DT
Nonsense, not unless there was some sort of involvement with an underlying crime, which would be an entirely different matter (at least that is my patent lawyer's view--admittedly this is not my forte as a legal practitioner!).
Here's an example to illustrate the point: let's say someone steals the secret formula for Coke, a valuable trade secret, and publishes it on the Internet in a way that is impossible to immediately eradicate. That person would be liable civilly and perhaps criminally, depending on the details.
But once the formula is out, it's out: you can make a knock off product using the formula. That's essentially all Trump did--use information that entered the public domain, even if that entry may have been the result of crime (in which Trump had no involvement).
When they look at dying in prison they then flip and agree to tell you everything they know.
Ahh, got it, thanks for the lesson. Just make sure you don't ask them questions, while they're flipping, unless you know the answers, right? :)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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George Papadopoulos
Mr. Papadopoulos, a former foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, pleaded guilty on Oct. 5 to lying to the F.B.I.
Michael T. Flynn
Mr. Flynn, President Trump’s first national security adviser, pleaded guilty in early December to lying to the F.B.I. about conversations he had in 2016 with the Russian ambassador to the United States at the time, Sergey I. Kislyak. P
Richard Pinedo
Richard Pinedo, a Southern California computer science major, pleaded guilty in February to identity fraud after he created and sold fake bank accounts from 2014 through the end of 2017. While his indictment supported the charges Mr. Mueller brought against 13 Russian nationals for election meddling
Alex van der Zwaan
The son-in-law of a Russian billionaire and a lawyer who worked with the former Trump campaign aides Rick Gates and Paul Manafort, Mr. van der Zwaan pleaded guilty on Tuesday to lying to prosecutors
Rick Gates
Rick Gates, the former deputy chairman for Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign, pleaded guilty on Friday to a pair of charges, conspiracy against the United States and lying to investigators.
Paul Manafort
Mr. Manafort faces dozens of counts of money laundering and bank fraud
Others Charged
Thirteen Russians: Yevgeny Prigozhin, Mikhail Bystrov, Mikhail Burchik, Aleksandra Krylova, Anna Bogacheva, Sergey Polozov, Maria Bovda, Robert Bovda, Dzheykhun Ogly, Vadim Podkopaev, Gleb Vasilchenko, Irina Kaverzina and Vladimir Venkov.
Three companies: Internet Research Agency, Concord Management, Concord Catering
In a sprawling 37-page indictment, Mr. Mueller charged the 13 Russians with conspiracy to defraud the United States, and connected them with a four-year effort to undermine and influence the 2016 presidential election. The Russians — and the three companies that facilitated and funded their work — are accused of using social media, the identities of American citizens and politically charged topics to manipulate an already divisive campaign.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Prosecutors never ask questions when they don't know the answers...
exactly. So they'll get him on collusion, obstruction, money laundering, and then toss in perjury after he lies through the entire interview.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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What’s The Longest Straight Path On Earth You Can Take Without Hitting Land
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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What’s The Longest Straight Path On Earth You Can Take Without Hitting Land
Hard to believe until you get something like Google Earth that allows you to see great circle routes, but the longest one I know is from somewhere around Seattle, heading west. Get it just right, and you wind up approaching the South Carolina coast from the east after having spent the entire flight over water.
It does take you over the archipelagos of Indonesia, so you can quibble and say that it passes over some tiny islands, but otherwise you're over water the whole time.
Edit: Wait. What does this have to do with this politard nonsense thread?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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*Dr. Harold Bornstein says Trump himself wrote 2015 letter claiming he was healthiest candidate ever
Trump's personal doctor said he's also opening up about that infamous letter he released, during the campaign, the one touting Donald Trump as the very specimen of outstanding health, with "physical strength and stamina" that were "extraordinary."
He says Trump wrote it.
"He dictated that whole letter. I didn't write that letter," Bornstein told CNN on Tuesday. "I just made it up as I went along." [...]
He said Trump read out the language as Bornstein and his wife were driving across Central Park.
"(Trump) dictated the letter and I would tell him what he couldn't put in there," he said. "They came to pick up their letter at 4 o'clock or something."
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Donald Trump's Nobel Peace Prize Speach
*On my way to the Nobel Prize, I knocked the hell out of the Islamic State, sent nice, new, smart missiles into Syria and dropped the Mother of All Bombs on Afghanistan. But those are only a tiny, tiny fraction of the countries I could have bombed.
I did not bomb Mexico even though they’re murderers and rapists. I did not bomb Canada, even though they are disgraceful about trade. I didn’t bomb Pakistan, even though they have given us nothing but lies and deceit. I didn’t bomb China, even though they are raping our country. And I have strongly supported the leaders of Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and Russia, as they promote peace by silencing noisy dissidents.
*Your Majesties and Highnesses, people who worked for me once said “do not congratulate!” — but I fired most of them. So come on, get up and applaud. You are so lucky that I gave you that privilege.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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What this has to do with politico is that sometimes you need to take a day off and reset your bearings
True.
And an interesting path.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Will the secret service allow Melania to keep the presidential soap and towels when she and the stable dictator get sentenced for the fake collusion , money laundering , and perjury...?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Trump owns you crazy people. He lives in your head.... forever!
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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I can't wait to see the hillbillies of America cry over not seen America as great again
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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@Norton - Donald Trump's Nobel Peace Prize Speach
Obama's. "Speech."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump's speach is going to be live from stormy's bunker...
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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I haven’t made up my mind on trump’s involvement in any collusion with Russians. I haven’t seen any evidence of it, although his underlings are up to their armpits in unsavory Russian associations. The truth is, we simply don’t know what evidence mueller has, and investigations like this take a lot of time. With that said, mueller does have quite a bit of evidence of obstruction, which largely undid Nixon. And trump has always acted in a very suspicious manner, which begs the question as to why trump is constantly lying and trying to get investigators to drop the matter.
I do not understand the impulse to can mueller soon except to cover trump’s big orange butt.
I am having doubts about collusion, but have no doubts about obstruction of justice.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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He says Trump wrote it.
Not sure what to say about anyone who, on reading it when it first came out, had any doubts about it being fraudulent and who it's true author was.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Fear
May 1, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
Trump owns you crazy people. He lives in your head.... forever!
Ain't it the truth. These guys obsess over his every word. His every gesture. Kind of a creepy stalker obsessiveness.
It's said a lot of the most vocal gay bashers are actually trying to offset their uncomfortable urges towards other men. Could a similar dynamic be in play for the most vocal Trump bashers????
Trumpophobic attraction?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Trump is just a distraction. He grabs your attention while the real crooks lift your wallet.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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only thing creepier than this admin is Sketch's constant apologies and defense of it. Look Away Sketch, Look Away111!!!666
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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"Seventy-two times, the president has falsely claimed he passed the biggest tax cut in history — when in fact it ranks in eighth place.
Fifty-three times, the president has made some variation of the claim that the Russia probe is a made-up controversy. (If you include other claims about the Russia probe that are not accurate, the count goes to 90.)
*Forty-one times, the president has offered a variation of the false claim that Democrats do not really care about the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program that Trump terminated."
That's just a small sample.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Poor little swnowflakes, can't handle a little humor directed at their dear leader
Should we take off her head for such Heresy!!!
The fake outrage is palpable
The dear leader can be the most vulgar hate filled slandering ape like buffoon, but he gets a clear pass with any of his transgressions
I want More Michelle Wolf
you go girl, use your comedy like a spear into the heart of the fascist enemy
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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only thing creepier than this admin is Sketch's constant apologies and defense of it. Look Away Sketch, Look Away111!!!666
Clearly, Wade's pounding it to he Trump porn.
Careful. You'll go blind.
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2018 - 08:42am PT
Poor little swnowflakes, can't handle a little humor directed at their dear leader
Should we take off her head for such Heresy!!!
The fake outrage is palpable
The dear leader can be the most vulgar hate filled slandering ape like buffoon, but he gets a clear pass with any of his transgressions
I want More Michelle Wolf
you go girl, use your comedy like a spear into the heart of the fascist enemy
Another fine illustration of Dunning-Kruger.
Thanks for sharing.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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the only thing that will reveal Trump's true hypocrisy is when he hires the same lawyer who defended Clinton during his impeachment.
wrong BrawnyKnee!!! Trump hiring Clintons lawyers would prove that Trump has some brain matter remaining. Problem is that none of Clintons lawyers would represent such an idiot client
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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the only thing that will reveal Trump's true hypocrisy
Tax returns, for some hey there, say there, look over here at the gravy-info.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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It looks like hiring Flood is not a done deal. As soon as Trump's base laughs, the guy is out - LOL. This is all pretty special. The good doctor's fake medical report is a real gem, and the leaked 50 Mueller questions thing..... all great SNL material.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jerry Fallwell was impressed enough with the lawyer who successfully defended Hustler magazine against Falwell's defamation claim that he ended up hiring him for unrelated work.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Bu-bu-bu-but I get all my legal commentary from ST and they toll me Trump wazznt gonna git a good lawya!!!!
Cuzz good lawyas only git clyents who be gud peeple!
Wanhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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A Running Tab Of Mueller Investigation Convictions & Indictments
Goerge Papadopoulos:
*Former Trump Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor, continued in that role after Trump became President. Convicted October 5, 2017 for lying to the FBI regarding communications, on behalf of and with the encouragement Trump Campaign, with Russians aimed at getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from Russian hacked emails
Michael Flynn
*Convicted (by guilty plea) on December 1, 2017 for lying to the FBI and regarding contacts and communications with Russians on behalf of the Trump transition team. The plea bargain agreement requires that Flynn fully cooperate with the investigation.
Richard Pinedo:
*California man convicted February 2, 2018 for helping the indicted Russian individuals and companies in their meddling in the Presidential election
Alex Van der Zwaan:
*The son-in-law of a Russian oligarch pleads guilty on February 20, 2018 for lying to the FBI regarding his communications with Rick Gates and Paul Manafort on behalf of pro-Soviet elements in the Ukraine.
Rick Gates:
*As widely anticipated, on February 23, 2018 Rick Gates strikes a plea agreement and pleads guilty to multiple counts for conspiracy to defraud the United States and making false statements.
Paul Manafort:
*Originally hired by Trump in the crucial role of securing delegates for the Republican National Convention then made Trump’s Campaign Chairman. Fired abruptly after a NY Times report describing massive possible illegal financial transactions from pro-Russian groups in the Ukraine. Indicted with Rick Gates on October 30, 2017 on charges of conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and multiple counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Former 'Apprentice' Contestant Who Accused Trump of Assault Has Subpoenaed Video Footage
Attorneys representing Summer Zervos, a former “Apprentice” contestant who has accused President Donald Trump of committing sexual assault, have issued subpoenas for key “Apprentice” video recordings that they say will prove their client’s claims.
*Zervos is suing Trump for defamation after the president called her a liar when she originally made her assault claims during the 2016 presidential campaign.
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Trump
climber
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Trump’s doctor had a ghost writer for the letter? So what? The doctor signed it, didn’t he? The doctor put his doctor credibility on the line to back up what that letter said, whether the exact words came from his mouth or pen or whatever.
And then he lied about writing it himself. And now we’re falling over backwards to believe this guy who lied to us? Who cares, and why does anyone care? Maybe we’re the ones who need to see a doctor.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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And now.....
Rudy Juliani reveals to Hanity that the trumpster not only knew Mickey paid Stormy $130K, , but Trump paid him back.
( he did this, btw, while being asked a question about Russian collusion by Hanity.)
So now we have Trumps attorney admitting his client violated campaign finance law since it wasn’t reported, and we have Rudy saying he does stuff like this without his clients knowing it “ all the time” which is a violation of NYS bar ethic rules.
This is way more entertaining than who shot JR.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mueller might already know trump knew about the stormy payment and giulianni is trying to defuse a grenade...? At any rate President got caught lying once again...MAGA...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Andrew Dice Trump will answer that in the grand jury subpoena...Hickory dickory dock....
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Going back to the playbook, just as Wiki leaks came out after the release of the pussy tape, the trump folks are announcing a NorthKorean prisoner release to deflect the story.
Kim is just doing a fellow despot a favor.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
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This is way more entertaining than who shot JR.
With Nixon, it was "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"
Then, a TV show had this hanging question, "Who shot JR?"
This time, it's "Who funded DT?"
Trump's life is like diving an ancient shipwreck: all kinds of things, from the past, can be found by simply digging a little deeper into the slime.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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And now.....
Rudy Juliani reveals to Hanity that the trumpster not only knew Mickey paid Stormy $130K, , but Trump paid him back.
( he did this, btw, while being asked a question about Russian collusion by Hanity.)
So now we have Trumps attorney admitting his client violated campaign finance law since it wasn’t reported, and we have Rudy saying he does stuff like this without his clients knowing it “ all the time” which is a violation of NYS bar ethic rules.
This is way more entertaining than who shot JR.
This is just another example of drumpf's relationship with the truth.
in regards to Rudi, at 74, is suffering from early onset dementia.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
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Trump is angry, and tweeting, about the leak of the list of questions that Mueller suggested would be asked of him, if he was deposed.
Mueller's team didn't leak that list of questions.
Trump had them released, by his own attorneys.
Trump is trying to play a PR war against seasoned Federal investigators, who have investigated money laundering and other crimes so many times, they can do it in their sleep.
Trump is perverting Joy Division, for his own sordid ends:
No language, just sound, that's all we need to know; to synchronize love, to the beat of the show.
Pure, unperverted Joy Division, c. 1979, on BBC
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Trump has been nominated by 18 House Republicans for the Nobel Peace Prize.
By that logic, if I end a public dispute by threatening to punch someone in the face I should receive a Good Samaritan reward.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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^^ The purpose was not to help workers. It's not like that should be a surprise to Rubio.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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There were unconfirmed reports on Thursday that North Korea has moved U.S. nationals from prisons in the isolated communist country to a hotel in or near the capital ahead of an expected meeting between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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^^ The purpose was not to help workers. It's not like that should be a surprise to Rubio.
Of course it wasn't meant to, but that's how it was advertised.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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tRump's entire "presidency" is a treasonous scam. He has lived his entire life that way. He doesn't know any other way.
House Repug's, Fox News and the rest of the "family" are scrambling to keep Don tRump out of the slammer.
Good luck with that.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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tRump's entire "presidency" is a treasonous scam. He has live his entire life that way. He doesn't know any other way.
House Repug's, Fox News and the rest of the "family" are scrambling to keep Don tRump out of the slammer.
Good luck with that.
so I heard that the republican strategy to stay in power is to say that if the dems get control of congress, they will impeach donnell. Consequently, all of the "good" things he has done will go by the wayside.
Bannon is heading the effort to keep the fear mongering high.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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“A supreme sexist.”—Barbara Res, former executive vice-president of Trump Organization, who also said “he thinks he’s God.”
“Like an 11-year-old child”— Steve Bannon. The now estranged advisor also allegedly complained that he was “sick of being a wet nurse to a 71-year-old man.”
Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”—White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh
“The White House has become an adult day care center”—Republican senator Bob Corker of Tennessee
“Morally unfit to be president,” “unethical” and “untethered to truth”—former FBI director James Comey, who also compared the US president to a mafia boss.
“Less a person than a collection of terrible traits”—Trump’s former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn.
Someone who “sucks up and shits down”—former Fox News chief and confidant Roger Ailes.
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DanaB
climber
CO
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"When Kissinger won the Nobel peace prize, satire died."
Tom Lehrer
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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Giuliani went on Fox and Friends, and said that Trump reimbursed Michael Cohen for the $130,000 porno pussy payoff money that was paid to Stormy Daniels. In other words, Trump paid for his own porno pussy, from his own porno pussy pocket money.
But, the legal buffoonery didn't stop there . . . . . .
Michael Avenatti
Giuliani then said that because the money was not campaign funds, it was perfectly legal. In other words, he says Trump was perfectly entitled to pay for some primo porno pussy right before the election, and use a lawyer and a shell company to hide it from the public.
NostraThomas predicts Melania won't last through Halloween before she separates and/or files for divorce. Her pre-nup has vested, and she's had enough of this sh#t. She'll get sole custody, because Trump is headed for Federal custody.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The American Public subsidized the porn star's payoff
Trump is claiming he reimbursed Cohen through a monthly retainer. That is called tax evasion, unless Trump did not write off the retainer for legal fees as a business expense, doubtful. We will never know unless tax returns are released.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So y’all do know they’re laughing themselves silly, unless they’re too busy yawning, in France over this, right? The French might think Trump is stoopid but they think this obsession about sex is equally stoopid and soooo typically American.
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dirtbag
climber
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Huh. Other than the entertainment factor, I haven’t seen much interest in the sex part of it. The usual religious right prudes, shockingly, haven’t raised a peep, although several of these folks have expressed a desire to suck Trump’s dick for awhile now that stormy is finished.
The possible campaign finance violations, however, are another matter....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Are we even sure these are the same Republicans whose indignant rage over Clinton blowjobs and denials led to an impeachment? Maybe they've all been replaced by alien doubles - I mean, what else could explain the turnabout?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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Of course it wasn't meant to, but that's how it was advertised.
"Bait and Switch" is a core element of the education of every MBA (Morally Bankrupt Asshole).
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Name Role at time Insult Occasion
Rex Tillerson Secretary of State a f*#king moron Pentagon meeting
H R McMaster National security advisor “An idiot [with the intelligence of] a kindergartener” Private dinner
John Kelly Chief of staff an idiot Conversation with Trump
Sam Nunberg Adviser he’s an idiot Live TV
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Are we even sure these are the same Republicans whose indignant rage over Clinton blowjobs and denials led to an impeachment? Maybe they've all been replaced by alien doubles - I mean, what else could explain the turnabout?
There's a big difference between some alleged dalliances that happened well before DT was president or even a candidate, on the one hand, and "Slick Willie" using his willie with an early-20s subordinate in the Oval Office, and then lying about it both under oath and to the American people (and fessing up only after learning the existence of the infamous blue dress).
Actually saying there's big difference isn't really the right way to frame it--they are just two completely different things that have no analogy, other than both involved an extra-marital "affair" of sorts.
Slick wasn't impeached for having an affair.
(Now DT may have done a little lying himself about some of this stuff and could be in a spot of trouble--we'll have to see how this shakes out.)
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dirtbag
climber
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There's a big difference between some alleged dalliances that happened well before DT was president or even a candidate, on the one hand, and "Slick Willie" using his willie with an early-20s subordinate in the Oval Office, and then lying about it both under oath and to the American people (and fessing up only after learning the existence of the infamous blue dress).
The payoff occurred about three weeks before the election, in that distant time of October, 2016.
Try again...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Cohen was wiretapped!!! LOL!!
if they were not breaking the law they have nothing to worry about
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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You guys just don't get it. He's delighted to have you denigrate him - it keeps him at the center of attention. So, keep piling on and cursing the Donald, and keep avoiding the issue of resurrecting the DP, and come the next presidential election he's back in office.
Confirmation bias may be good for the soul, but it's counter productive
Just MHO.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Not all Republicans are racists
but damn near all racists vote Republican
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^* That explains all the blacks and Hispanics that voted for him! Thanks!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Reilly is correct, 8% of Blacks voted for Trump, 28% of Hispanics voted for Trump
therefore, they are racist!
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^I guess the other 92% figured out what the hell they’d have to lose.^^^
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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You guys just don't get it. He's delighted to have you denigrate him - it keeps him at the center of attention. So, keep piling on and cursing the Donald, and keep avoiding the issue of resurrecting the DP, and come the next presidential election he's back in office.
People pay lip service to the idea that you have to run on an actual platform instead of just attacking the other side. But the reality of our two-party system, especially for the mid-terms, attacking the other side gets more traction with voters.
Hell, the R's go to platform is to still run against Hillary.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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America has changed, and whatever you view as the good old days ain’t coming back. Changed with a capital C. Expect more strife, more authoritarianism, more egalitarianism, and less of the middle. My heart is in the middle, and it’s being crowded.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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But the reality of our two-party system, especially for the mid-terms, attacking the other side gets more traction with voters.
Yes, it is more exciting and gets the spirits up.
President Pelosi. I like the sound of that! She won't stop at the speakership. Pelosi vs Trump, what a treat!
;>)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Democrats lose elections because they talk about government policy, no one cares
Republicans win elections because they sell emotion, racism, hate, and the 3 G's
God, Guns, and Gays
pack it in Dems, you can't beat em, you don't have it in you to compete on their terms
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Pelosi? Seriously? If she was a guy she wouldn’t be able to tie her shoes.
Elisabeth Warren would, or should, destroy her in the primaries.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Pelosi
Trigger word
they must defeat the possibility of Pelosi coming back as Speaker
Who cares what policies she would enact,
like lower cost health care, more higher paying jobs, better education, environmental progress, better economy, etc...
it's all about trigger words
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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President Trump is fabulous. I read all of his tweets. He might just be the best president in my lifetime if he keeps going like this.
The real problem is that he is so brilliant that the vast majority of people can not appreciate him.
I would rather have an outspoken Republican president than a secretive Democratic president like Hillary Clinton would have been.
He is standing up to North Korea, he is addressing our trade deficit, the Mideast became much quieter after he ordered the dropping of the Mother of All Bombs and his responses to Syrian use of chemical warfare. His speech defending the bombing of the Syrian chemical weapons facility was brilliant.
The Republicans have lowered taxes for the majority of Americans, especially renters and famiies. He is the best friend of the taxpayer since George W. Bush, who got rid of the marriage tax penalty, issued three rebates to low income taxpayers and allowed low income taxpayers to pay zero capital gains taxes in many instances. The Democrats only want to increase taxes.
Unemployment is at an extreme low. Some people are waking up to the fact that we can achieve more than a 3% annual growth rate in GDP. It will happen despite the doubters. China and India can do it. So can we.
All of you who don't believe in him are entitled to your opinion. But derogatory comments don't outweigh his accomplishments.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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So, in other words, his continuing supporters really are that delusional.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
May 3, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
President Trump is fabulous. I read all of his tweets. He might just be the best president in my lifetime if he keeps going like this.
The real problem is that he is so brilliant that the vast majority of people can not appreciate him.
I would rather have an outspoken Republican president than a secretive Democratic president like Hillary Clinton would have been.
He is standing up to North Korea, he is addressing our trade deficit, the Mideast became much quieter after he ordered the dropping of the Mother of All Bombs and his responses to Syrian use of chemical warfare. His speech defending the bombing of the Syrian chemical weapons facility was brilliant.
The Republicans have lowered taxes for the majority of Americans, especially renters and famiies. He is the best friend of the taxpayer since George W. Bush, who got rid of the marriage tax penalty, issued three rebates to low income taxpayers and allowed low income taxpayers to pay zero capital gains taxes in many instances. The Democrats only want to increase taxes.
Unemployment is at an extreme low. Some people are waking up to the fact that we can achieve more than a 3% annual growth rate in GDP. It will happen despite the doubters. China and India can do it. So can we.
All of you who don't believe in him are entitled to your opinion. But derogatory comments don't outweigh his accomplishments.
The real problem is that he is so brilliant that the vast majority of people can not appreciate him. Yes, this is the Real problem, too brilliant for us mortals
you are entitled to your opinion
and it's nice for you to post yours here
We should all be able to express our opinion of Trump
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zBrown
Ice climber
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You guys just don't get it. He's delighted to have you denigrate him - it keeps him at the center of attention
I disagree Prof Gill. He loves being the center of attention but he seriously feels bad when folks don't admire him.
Anyway very few pay attention to this thread.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Any high end legal team, and most others, would be fully aware of the consequences of what Mr. Giuliani said last night. For example, are there any campaign finance, tax or civil liability implications? State law violations in any of the states in which the conduct was alleged to have occurred? Certainly one would want an opinion on the criminal jeopardy, if any, from someone who knows what they are talking about. I wonder if they have a plan or are just sort of doing a bat sh#t crazy hope it works out approach.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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The real problem is that he is so brilliant that the vast majority of people can not appreciate him.
some people cannot hide their ignorance.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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You guys just don't get it. He's delighted to have you denigrate him - it keeps him at the center of attention. So, keep piling on and cursing the Donald, and keep avoiding the issue of resurrecting the DP, and come the next presidential election he's back in office.
Confirmation bias may be good for the soul, but it's counter productive
Yep. There's a myopia among the Trump haters, including the MSM. They're so focused on sticking it to him and denigrating any and all of his supporters, they fail see how their behavior alienates moderates. It helps Trump.
If Trump can help secure improved relations with North Korea and the market doesn't tank, there's a chance the GOP will maintain control of Congress after the midterms.
So, you guys just keep on spewing your Daily Hate. It may be cathartic, but it's not really helping your end game.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Crab crisis: Md. seafood industry loses 40 percent of workforce in visa lottery
Nearly half of the Eastern Shore’s plants have no workers to pick the meat sold in restaurants and supermarkets. “This is going to cause the price of crabmeat to go out of sight,” said one crab house owner.
gosh, so tired of winning.......
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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When you tell that many lies on daily basis, it is impossible for his staff of fixers to keep track of them all.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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*“A supreme sexist.”—Barbara Res, former executive vice-president of Trump Organization, who also said “he thinks he’s God.”
“Like an 11-year-old child”— Steve Bannon. The now estranged advisor also allegedly complained that he was “sick of being a wet nurse to a 71-year-old man.”
*Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”—White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh
“The White House has become an adult day care center”—Republican senator Bob Corker of Tennessee
*“Morally unfit to be president,” “unethical” and “untethered to truth”—former FBI director James Comey, who also compared the US president to a mafia boss.
“Less a person than a collection of terrible traits”—Trump’s former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn.
Someone who “sucks up and shits down”—former Fox News chief and confidant Roger Ailes.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Well done, Norton! Keep up the good work.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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You are all partisan. Extremists, some. Kinda sad.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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No one that works for Trump that any expertise seems to think Trump is brilliant,
queue Norton's list
Who thinks he is brilliant?
Who thinks he is doing a great job?
Fascist think this, you have to be a fascist to be that blind
or awake and just love fascism, millions of Hitler followers prove that it can happen with any population
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Democrats lose elections because they talk about government policy, no one cares
Republicans win elections because they sell emotion, racism, hate, and the 3 G's
God, Guns, and Gays
pack it in Dems, you can't beat em, you don't have it in you to compete on their terms
Yea, it is terribly sad that the Dems haven't had control of the House, Senate, or White House in living memory. They should just disband.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Yea, it is terribly sad that the Dems haven't had control of the House, Senate, or White House in living memory. They should just disband.
well, if in living memory includes eight years ago, the Dems had majorities in the House and Senate from 2008-2010, including the WH
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2018 - 01:23pm PT
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The real problem is that he is so brilliant that the vast majority of people can not appreciate him.
I liked that bedtime story better when it was called, The Emperor's New Clothes. Back then, the grown-ups telling the story weren't trying to pretend that the irony and the satire somehow established the story as being factual.
I would rather have an outspoken Republican president than a secretive Democratic president like Hillary Clinton would have been.
Speculation about what would, or would not, have occurred if Hillary were president is a favored GOP canard: a distraction from the FACTS that exist in the real world, as opposed to Trump's alternative universe of distractions, deceptions, lies and concealment.
Trump is outspoken, but he has no regard for the truth. He lies and contradicts himself, and wants that to be the new normal for presidential decorum. Soon, nobody will be able to trust anything he says. Even worse, after Trump is gone, his political sycophants will take up his habit of lying to the public.
This morning, reporters directly asked Trump to reconcile prior denials - he made on camera - of any knowledge of the $130,000 porno pussy payment, with statements a day ago that he knew all about the payment, and that he had reimbursed his lawyer, Michael Cohen, for making the payment. Trump's response was to say, "We haven't changed our story. You'll have to go back, and check again, what I said."
This is where Trump is, again: denying the existence of video footage of himself making a statement a few days earlier. Trump is absolutely insane, nefarious and diabolical.
Trump is to lying as Thomas Kinkade (The Painter of Light) is to painting. There is a prodigious, even obscene, output of low-quality schlock. Idiots who don't know any better admire what they see, and will defend it against legitimate criticism with a virulent fanaticism that borders on the insane.
It was both amusing, and telling, that Hannity and Giuliani got together on Fox News to completely destroy Trump's legal strategy about the porno pussy payoff. Hannity said that the porno pussy payoff was funneled by a lawyer through a shell company. Giuliani called that bid, and raised it with Trump personally paying back the money. It was like Hannity and Giuliani were in some sort of contest with each other, about who could reveal the most damaging inside information about Trump.
It just further showed that Trump is insane, and he has surrounded himself with people who are insane.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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well, if in living memory includes eight years ago, the Dems had majorities in the House and Senate from 2008-2010, including the WH
They did a fine job all that important legislation. Immigration reform, new gun laws, raising minimum wage - living wage, carbon neutrality... and about those burdensome student loans.
Good work on so many fronts.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-judge-manafort-case-skeptical-scope-mueller-investigation-n871401
"The judge said prosecutors wanted the former Trump campaign official to “sing,” but he worried that Manafort might also 'compose.' Judge Ellis then opined that the American people do not want a special counsel with unfettered power and even went so far as to ask when the investigation would conclude."
CNN's finally picked up on that story (Fox led with it earlier).
This could turn out to be a pretty big as it gives Trump a legitimate hook to continue his "witch hunt" narrative.
Seems like a pretty fair bet that they'll get Trump at least on some technicalities relating to Stormy D, so he's going to have come up with some kind of an angle.
I'm thinking the Giuliani stuff wasn't quite as random as it seemed either--since none of the stories Trump can tell related to Stormy D are really good for him, I think the strategy will be to get a bunch of different stories out there and take the position that no one, even Trump himself, can really know what happened since there are so many different versions!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2018 - 01:59pm PT
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Judge Ellis then opined that the American people do not want a special counsel with unfettered power and even went so far as to ask when the investigation would conclude.
Judge Ellis exhibited partisanship with those statements.
Nobody thinks the special counsel has unfettered powers. Mueller's mandate is restricted to a specific inquiry, and allows him to pursue attendant crimes as they are discovered. If anything, the mandate is too restrictive, because it only concerns Russian interference, not Ukrainian, Azerbailan, Cypriot or that of other countries with financial ties to Manfort, Trump, his campaign and to current cabinet-level White House officials.
The judge has no business asking when an investigation will end. It will end when the trail of relevant facts is exhausted. The whole truth is what is sought, not some selected, limited set of facts.
The judge's comments sound like the constant noise coming from the Trump Team echo chamber.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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well blah blah blah
first, the Democrats did not, ever, during President Obama's terms, have a filibuster proof majority to pass legislation
if fact, for a very short period of time, some 30 days, they had 58 Dem Senators
and convinced the two Independent Senators to join them
while bringing in Kennedy in a wheelchair to vote
in order to pass the Health Care Act, all while enduring every delaying tactic to block to from your Republcans
during that same time period the Dems passed the Lilly Fair Pay Act, ensuring women get paid the same as men for work, explain why your Repubs voted against that
------
meanwhile, your Republicans have had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency for well over a year
and all they could manage was to add one and half trillion to the debt by passing a massive tax cut for corporations, while throwing a crumb to the rest
why don't your Republicans use their power nowadays to outlaw abortion, pass Federal laws ordering all adults to carry handguns, find ways to add another trillion to the debt
the biggest failure of your Republicans was their pathetic attempts to repeal the Dems healthcare law, could not do it, even with majority power, big talk no action
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WBraun
climber
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Are you two clowns above ever gonna get past kindergarten yourselves??
Answer: never .....
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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first, the Democrats did not, ever, during President Obama's terms, have a filibuster proof majority to pass legislation
if fact, for a very short period of time, some 30 days, they had 58 Dem Senators
and convinced the two Independent Senators to join them
while bringing in Kennedy in a wheelchair to vote
They did, in fact, have a filibuster-proof majority from July 7. 2009 (when Al Franken was officially seated as the Senator from Minnesota after the last of Norm Coleman’s challenges came to an end) to August 25, 2009 (when Ted Kennedy died, although Kennedy’s illness had kept him from voting for several weeks before that date at least); and from September 25, 2009 (when Paul Kirk was appointed to replace Kennedy) to February 4, 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after defeating Martha Coakley); for one day in September 2009, Republicans lacked 40 votes due to the resignation of Mel Martinez, who was replaced the next day by George LeMieux.
They used this super-majority to end debate on ObamaCare. Later, when they lost it, they "went nuclear" and killed filibuster tradition to get liberal judges appointed to District and Appellate positions.
They later came to regret this new precedent--as you know.
gonna finally graduate high school this year?
...asks the guy who complains about personal attacks?
BTW, it's s-p-e-e-c-h--not "speach." Geeeeeezzrolleyes.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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That's 28 working days
The Senate doesn't work every day
The Republicans filibustered and obstructed everything before and after
They even obstructed a Supreme Court Appointment
In other words, they do what they want no matter how unconstitutional it is.
Screw the people, politics over the good of the people, let the lobbyists pay them for policy
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zBrown
Ice climber
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By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Atto ey General, including 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515, in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian govemmenfs e orts to inter re in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as llows:
(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed t serve as Specia] Counsel r the United States
Department of Justice.
(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation con nned by then-FBI Director James 8. Co ey in testimony be re the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links an or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly om the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is
authorized to prosecute deral crimes arising om the investigation of these matters. (d) Sections 600.4 through 600. l 0 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are
applicable to the Special Counsel.
T.S. Ellis is to receive the full, unredacted Rosenstein memo (under seal) which shows that Mueller has the authority to proceed along the path they are on.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Speculation about what would, or would not, have occurred if Hillary were president . . .
Anyone here watch the latest season of Homeland? Elizabeth Keene, a former senator, is the new president, and she looks and sounds like HRC, wears pants suits, and can be quite gruff. Also, she is almost assassinated, and is forced to step down from the office of president briefly, until a Russian GRU plot to disrupt American politics is revealed to the public.
But, as the season unfolds, she becomes more and more dictatorial and vindictive, starting with jailing most of the CIA leadership. She releases them, but then fires her cabinet en masse. In the end she resigns for the good of the country.
Quite a change from Obama's uncertainties and geopolitical wanderings.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Ever notice how Hillary is eerily similar to Angela Lansbury's character in the Manchurian Candidate.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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I think it’s hysterical the tea party is still talking Obama and Hilary.
They are gone and will never resurface. You might as well go on about Teddy Roosevelt busting trusts.
Hillary didn’t sleep with and pay off a porn star.
That we know of.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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See,they are still talking about it.
It is amazing the dissonance,really ,these folks are even talking re election.
The lack of facing reality ,is ,well,amazing.
Do you really think more than the 30% you have are going to re elect him.
Lol.
You are very lucky Hillary ran.It’s a good thing you did not lock her up before the election. I mean she lied!
HS
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2018 - 10:32pm PT
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You might as well go on about Teddy Roosevelt busting trusts
That's who we need, right now.
T.R. pushed back against a tide of big money taking over, and exploiting the public at large. He knew that was not in the best interest of the United States, and nobody called him a socialist.
Cutting money addicts off at the knees is in the interest of maintaining the United States as a viable, ongoing enterprise.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2018 - 11:55pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BEAUTIFUL
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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yosemite 5.9 is the poster that started the Paul Ryan 40-14ers thread and then deleted it after it turned into the truth about lying Ryan
may be a Russian bot, or just another Faux News causality
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WBraun
climber
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The cause of the WW's was the British.
The British occupied half the world in their colonization.
Germany produced high quality industrial goods but couldn't sell them because the aszhole Britishers wouldn't allow.
The Britishers would take their goods and stamp "Made in England" and sell it.
German economy tanked gave rise to Hitler types.
The WW are Karmic reactions to st000pid greedy people and cause everyone to suffer.
But you wouldn't know this because you're moron brainwashed Politards clowns splashing in the shallow end of the pools stuck in drooling into Trumps hair.
That's why yer all dumber than Trump .....
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Who has time to read this delusional thread?
What's the score this week anyway?
Out in the greater world Bozo is laughing and there is the slightest whisper in the wind of a fat lady singing
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Did Sarah Sanders start taking voice lessons...?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2018 - 09:42am PT
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Hitler started WW because it was cold in Germany, and he wanted a nice, warm vacation house in:
BENGHAZI
The WVB economic analysis is mostly correct. WW was partially due to economic tariffs and trade wars.
Trump is now calling for tariffs, and wants to "win" a trade war with China ("So easy, so easy")
#MAGA #92F #SAW #Oerlikon #chaingun #Vulcan #GAU-8 #JDAM #Apache_AH-64 #AC-130 #B-52 #Teller-Ulam_FTW #big_hands
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^^ Partly ‘neutral’ Sweden by guaranteeing him a suitable supply of high grade iron ore.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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What's the score this week anyway?
Out in the greater world Bozo is laughing and there is the slightest whisper in the wind of a fat lady singing
Obviously has no sense of humor
NOW this is funnny
“Let's test this most recent claim,” Avenatti tweeted. “For over 9 yrs after the end of the affair - 2007, 08, 09, 10, 11 (In Touch), 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16 (Jan-Sept) - Mr. Trump had a family. And yet no payment was ever made to 'protect them.' Then, two weeks before the election, the payment was suddenly made.”
"Damn spearchuckers"
-Donny 'Don't PoleAxe Me" Trump
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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who paid hitlers rise to power?
In Germany, steel magnate Fritz Thyssen was a big financier. W.Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush ( Daddy of GWHB and granddaddy of GWB ) were his chief banking arm in the USA.
Their investment bank, the Union Banking Corporation, a part of Brown Brothers Harriman, continued to do business with Thyssen even after the start of WWII and was shut down in 1942 under the trading with the Enemies Act of 1917.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
Those dealings were a big part of the Bush fortune, which began with $125 investment in UBC.
Oh, and there is he fact that Henry Ford’s German subsidiary used slave labor during the war to aid in Nazi armamnent poduction. He was producing armaments for Germany as early as 1936.Does that count?
Ford - Dearborn provided Rubber and raw materials even after war broke out. After the war, Fords assets were returned to the family fortune. ford’s German assets doubled during the war.
https://www.thenation.com/article/ford-and-fuhrer/
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WBraun
climber
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Go study all those brainwashed Perfumed Prince's in the Pentagon.
No ... poltards can only see as far as Trumps hairdooo nothing more.
And just go take a look at the morons Pompeo, Haley, etc.
You politards should be ashamed.
But you're not, instead, you're too busy studying Trump's golf swing and his st00pid tweets while the elite criminals are busy raping you ......
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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xcon, hypocritical Swedes get a pass just cause they’re semi-socialists now?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2018 - 12:11pm PT
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WVB, you are, absolutely, correct. We should be ashamed.
This current state of affairs is an atrocity.
How, in the context of God's great design, did people screw things up so badly?
The Bible says that we're supposed to nurture and cultivate the earth.
Nowhere, in The Bible, does it sayeth that a man shall go forth, and commiteth Playboy bunny pussy adultery until he runeth out of payoff money.
The Good Book is rather clear, on that subject.
God is not stupid.
WTF kind of demonic moral majority would embrace such a thing?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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It all proves one thing and demonstrates it profoundly
There is no God, No Karma, No retribution,
No higher power, no Gaia, and no hope for humanity
You can get away with anything as long as you dupe the right people
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WBraun
climber
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It proves only one thing that Fried Craig is insane ......
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well stated, and correct in every aspect.
Except for one thing: my high-school French is well past its pull-date. I only understand one word of what you posted.
Gaia is just a short drive east from Santa Cruz. If you simply put a few gallons of gas into your tank, it is possible to drive there, and realize that it actually exists.
Or, just use the Google Map thing on your computer:
https://www.google.com/maps/search/Gaia/@36.8840683,-122.0867897,10z?hl=en
#BattleForReality
Hate My Guts on LinkedIn
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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And just go take a look at the morons Pompeo, Haley, etc.
agreed..idiots who do not belong in government.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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President Chicken Little
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
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Avenatti tweeted
I've never been in love with a man, until Michael Avenatti. He is the JEDI MASTER.
I'd chop my thing off myself, if it'd get us together.
Trump can fire Assistant Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, and put some flunky, like Scott Pruitt, into position to fire Robert Mueller.
But, Trump will NEVER be able to be able to evade the tenacious and ferocious legal mind of MICHAEL AVENATTI.
I'll say it again: MICHAEL AVENATTI.
Someday, history will be written, and MICHAEL AVENATTI will be right there, at the top of an important chapter.
It is sometimes difficult to see history, as it is unfolding.
But, NostraThomas has a vision, a prescient vision, that this hill-billy lawyer from Missouri, who went to law school at night at the top of his class, will become one of the most important individuals who ensured that the United States of America didn't fall down during a Constitutional crisis.
This is true democracy in action. The GOP can derail the government's investigations, but a citizen pleading legitimately before the courts cannot be stopped.
God bless Michael Aventatti.
He's a true patriot. He's a formidable and herculean warrior in the Battle For Reality. He's the Man Of The Moment, at exactly the time that we need him, right now, at this moment. His aggression against lies, deceit, concealment and fraud are an inspiration to any person who values truth over falsity.
Michael Avenatti is so aggressive, you would want him to be on your side in a seriously dangerous fight.
And, he is.
If you can't take a punch, you don't belong in the ring.
Michael Avenatti
I be woke.
And, you, too, should be woke.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Ah, too much!
When the discussion gets lively, that's when it gets good.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Who's Michael Avenatti?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
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Oh, John. You've been there, for both Watergate and Humjobgate. This thing is both, all at the same time.
This guy, Michael Avenatti, is "Stormy Daniels"' lawyer, and wants to vacate a non-disclosure agreement between his client, a porno movie actress and producer, and Donald Trump. She asserts that she had a one-night stand with Trump, and also asserts that she was threatened with violence in furtherance of concealment of the affair. A sizeable payoff to keep her quiet - $130,000 - took place in late October 2016, right before the election.
But, it's more than that.
Mr. Avenatti wants to ensure that his client's case be brought forth, in full public disclosure.
Mr. Avenatti wants to reveal, what Trump and his crew have tried to conceal, is a feloniously illegal campaign payment to hide the ostensibly embarrassing tryst.
The sex is not the issue.
The cover-up, and the ongoing deceit, is the issue.
This is EXACTLY what got both Nixon and Clinton into trouble: impeding a Federal investigation. Martha Stewart went to prison for the same reason. Lying to Federal investigators is no joke, and Trump, the liar of all liars, is trying to dance around a potentially lethal deposition from Michael Avenatti in the present "Stormy Daniels" civil lawsuit. Trump can't hide behind the presidency, as couldn't President Clinton, when Paula Jones demanded that he answer for his prior behavior.
The facts have shown that $130,000 was paid to "Stormy Daniels", on, or about, three weeks before the election, to hide Trump's unsavory behavior from the public.
Michael Avenatti, representing "Stormy Daniels", alleges that she was threatened and bullied into silence by Trump's attorney/fixer/henchman, Michael Cohen, whose records from his office and residences have been raided by the the FBI, as part of a criminal investigation.
Michael Cohen is also being investigated by special counsel Robert Mueller, with respect to illegal foreign interference in the 2016 presidential election.
It's hard to imagine a situation more surreal than this.
Even the salacious movie producer Quentin Tarantino wouldn't be able to write this as a movie script.
This surreal situation is writing itself, in real time.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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John, Avenatti is bulldog of an attorney, who is all over the media these days. He is assertive, clear talking and comes across as brilliant.
he is also HIGHLY entertaining!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2018 - 10:30pm PT
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Ken, I like that video. Avenatti is a master of his craft.
But my all-time favorite Avenatti video is this one.
Here, Avenatti goes bulldog-versus-lapdog against Michael Cohen's attorney.
THIS is the true meaning of "Covefe". ENJOY!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Your friend is a thug. Thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug, thug . . . . . .
Avenatti counted off "thug" twenty times on his fingers, mocking Micheal Cohen's claim that "Stormy Daniels" owes him $20 million.
Michael Avenatti predicted, in that video, that Michael Cohen would be indicted. This was before Cohen's office and residences had been raided by the FBI to obtain information related to a criminal investigation.
Indictments against Michael Cohen are speculative at this time, but it is clear that his information has been seized by the FBI pursuant to a criminal investigation.
This is not FAKE NEWS that the United States Department of Justice has obtained and served a search warrant for whatever evidence was obtainable from the homes and offices of Michael Cohen. This is REAL NEWS.
It HAPPENED. It OCCURRED. The event TOOK PLACE. There is NO denialability. FACTS are FACTS. Papers were served, spaces were searched, evidence was collected, and an ongoing investigation is in process.
Trump's diatribes don't change the FACTS.
Reality in not based upon one crazy man's absurd statements.
Trump is acting in a manner similar to a guilty person, and the looming evidence against him would suggest prison for the rest of his life. His children and his daughter's husband are also under investigation, and appear to be indictable.
Trump's myriad delusia may be interesting to a studious team of hospital psychiatrists in the future. But, for now, Trump's quixotic battle with reality is a serious concern for the people of the United States, and for the rest of the world.
Michael Avenatti has accurately predicted the future, and will continue to do so.
Michael Avenatti is the Jedi Master.
Watch him, you will.
Hmmmmmmmm.
The Force.
Strong with him, it is.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2018 - 01:09am PT
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I've got a photo, taken in Santa Margarita, of a woman with her TRUMP banner in her yard.
It's hard to tell, sometimes, just what sort of person would still rally behind Trump, and pretend that their illusional reality somehow supplants the reality known to 6 billion people.
It really is astonishing.
I don't care if what he says is not the truth. I like what he says.
It is just INCREDIBLE, and UNBELIEVABLE.
Who are these people? And why do they think (don't think) the way they do?
I was raised on Euclidean geometry and other ancient Greek logic. The people who believe in Trump are not even at an intellectual level where 2+2 = 4
It's no coincidence that Ditsy Davos is the Secretary of Education. Ignorance = disempowerment
This is not just a Battle for Reality. It is a second Civil War, and we're not fighting back hard enough.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Tom wrote: "I was raised on Euclidean geometry and other ancient Greek logic. The people who believe in Trump are not even at an intellectual level where 2+2 = 4"
jayzeus.
to be clear, for someone claiming to be logical there is a simple and basic error that predicates the "logic" underlying your previous post.
most of your post assumes the people who voted "for" trump are the issue.
while it is true that there was and is a percentage of folks who voted "for" trump and still support him, it is certainly not near to what pushed el trumperino into the winning column.
that came due to the mass of folks who held their nose and were voting "against" hilllary and the democrat platform...
these are the people the dems need to win back over...
yes, the folks who believe trump and his crew's lies are truly making america great again are effectively lost causes...
there are also still folks who think that "whites" marrying "blacks" is "wrong"...
who gives a shIt?
to assume that the relatively tiny [but vocal] minority of folks who voted "for" trump are where energy needs to be focused is mind bogglingly inept for anyone who claims to know that 2+2=4.
until the dems examine why people didn't want to vote for hill [it's been pretty simple since day one... and no it's not entirely because she is a woman, although i am certain that also played a role] and then figure out what they stand for that is different than what the republicans are offering and then finally find a good pitch person to present it all...
well... prepare yourself for 6 more years of the orange one, assuming mueller doesn't dig up some real dirt in the next bit.
BENGHAZI!1!!!!111!!!1!
STORMY!1!!!!!!!!
RUSSIA!1!!!!!1!!
EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE!1!!!!!!1!
or whatever the new great white hope of the entitled, who don't want to battle things out at the ballot box, is...
[tl;dr: the dems lost. either figure out why, accepting that barring the unknowable you're going to get four years led by someone with toddler-like emotional development resulting in at least tyrannical tendencies, or continue to contribute to eight years of the orange shIt gibbon and all of the buffoons he surrounds himself with...]
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2018 - 02:40am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No response needed. It's self-refuting.
Trump and his followers have brought something new to the world:
Linguistic defects comprising self-refuting statements.
#MAGA
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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the dems lost. either figure out why
we figured out why already
Well first, we won the popular vote
second, 100s of thousands of votes were either not counted or taken off the voter roles, fact
third, a billion dollar smear campaign against Hillary (Benghazi)
fourth, Russian and Cambridge Analytica smear campaign
fifth, Russian money funneled through the NRA
sixth, possible election fraud by changing vote totals, exit polls have documented this discrepancy
Having Canadians dictate the facts as they know them is quite disingenuous IMO
This election was Rigged, Trump said it and knows it
he is completely illegitimate
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Speaking of Mr. A, let us not forget Keith Davidson. Whole truth, hahahha. What do ya want for nuthin' richochet biscuit?
(CNN)The attorney who represented a porn star and Playboy model in deals that buried their allegations of sexual encounters with Donald Trump in exchange for six-figure payouts said the "whole truth" about the now-public scandal has not been told.
In exclusive interviews with CNN, attorney Keith M. Davidson said he believes his clients Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal were telling the truth about their relationships with Trump, but that details surrounding their deals and his role in negotiating them have not fully been disclosed.
Davidson said he was contacted in recent weeks by Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen, who encouraged him to go out and reveal what he knew about his clients and their agreements. He said Cohen argued that the women had waived attorney-client privilege by going public with their stories.
"He suggested that it would be appropriate for me to go out into the media and spill my guts," Davidson said.
Can we get an Amen finally for some collusion?
Ms. McDougal similarly sued American Media Inc., the media company that had paid her $150,000 for the rights to her story, arguing that she was deceived into accepting the terms. She said that Mr. Davidson, acting as her own lawyer, inappropriately pressured her and secretly colluded with Mr. Cohen, who was not technically part of the negotiation. This week, A.M.I., the parent company of The National Enquirer, freed her from that agreement.
Coud we get some chipos with that order? Sure why not. Lawyer talk, plain and simple.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Who is Michael Avenatti?
Michael Avenatti - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Avenatti
Since 2010, Avenatti has raced as a driver in approximately 34 professional sports car races, including various American Le Mans Series, FIA World Endurance Championship, Porsche Supercup and United SportsCar Championship races in the United States and in Europe.
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dirtbag
climber
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Well first, we won the popular vote
second, 100s of thousands of votes were either not counted or taken off the voter roles, fact
third, a billion dollar smear campaign against Hillary (Benghazi)
fourth, Russian and Cambridge Analytica smear campaign
fifth, Russian money funneled through the NRA
sixth, possible election fraud by changing vote totals, exit polls have documented this discrepancy
With only 80,000 votes in a few key states making the difference last election, any single reason in your list would’ve made a difference. You could also add Comeys round of blunders at the end.
#3 probably made the biggest difference. The email thing, which few voters could ever really explain, was made into as big of a deal as trump’s racism, corruption—which was well known, ignorance, and authoritarianism. Related is the media’s misguided tendency to give equal negative airtime to candidates, making both candidates seem equally corrupt.
So, we ended up with the demagogue.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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seventh, Comey's ill timed politically motivated blunder and the subsequent leaking, and then the crazed out rage, which turned some polls from a for sure win to a No Win
eighth, a lying bigot telling the dupes that he will make everything better, more jobs, more winning, free healthcare, and Mexico will build us a wall
most of us have moved on
We know why we lost
We have to vote him and his Republican partners in crime out, that is all we can do at this point, and hopefully more folks will wake up and join the fight for Democracy.
But with the Republican election fraud going on, we may never win again
Why still talk about Hillary?
Because that's all they got to justify the reason Trump won, they can't allow themselves to think they were duped by well orchestrated con
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump is going to be indicted and the next step , to add to Fry's list , will be congress electing to do nothing..." Do nothing " being the key words and the republicans MO when it comes to maintaining power at any cost , including colluding with an enemy country...No suprises there...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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from the polling some 14 days before the election Hillary Clinton still had about a 2% lead
when Comey came out with his "we have found more emails" enough people threw up their hands and said there just me something, I don't know what, about all this email stuff that is possibly as "criminal" as Trump is insisting
and it was that Comey release that changed just enough votes to make Trump president
-----if is not the FBI's responsibility to involve itself in influencing elections, yet they did
we do not have "law" against that, if we did Clinton would be President
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Just watched the SNL opening with Stormy Daniels, and when she said "a Stirm's a comin, I remembered how the Qantas go on and on about... "the storm."
Rather ironic.
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John M
climber
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......
9. A large group of people believing Hillary was a good choice.
Until you understand that one, you will run the risk of losing again. Because you can't stop the right from using smear campaigns and you likely won't stop them from deleting a few voters.
"Better then Trump" is pathetic. Is that really the best that the Dems could do? We really are in sorry shape if that is the truth.
10. A large group of liberals not paying attention when a big group of liberal voters said that they didn't like Hillary. And then making fun of them for not liking her.
11. Believing that voters didn't like Hillary because of the smear campaign against her. A good candidate would have been able to rise above the smear campaign.
Before you attack me.. I voted in California. If you don't understand that. well..
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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every once in a while we should do a status check: yup, the electoral college is still a kludge unique in the whole democratic world
Which presidents lost the popular vote?
Elections
1824: John Quincy Adams.
1876: Rutherford B. Hayes.
1888: Benjamin Harrison.
2000: George W. Bush.
2016: Donald Trump.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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"Better then Trump" is pathetic. Is that really the best that the Dems could do? We really ar Quote Here e in sorry shape if that is the truth.
Democratic voters do not control the primary process, they can only cast their one vote at a time, and yes, they preferred Clinton over Sanders, fair and square, and so she was the nominee
10. A large group of liberals not paying attention when a big group of liberal voters said that they didn't like Hillary. And then making fun of them for not liking her.
so, when a larger number of primary voters prefer Clinton to Bernie it is because they did not pay "attention" and vote for Bernie, sorry that logic fails
11. Believing that voters didn't like Hillary because of the smear campaign against her. A good candidate would have been able to rise above the smear campaign.
yes, "smearing" candidates works, and Comey's email confusion was indeed a last minute smear
-Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, just not in the right electoral counties/states
give your Bernie bleating a break, John - he was never fully vetted by the political right because they knew he would never be the nominee
and if he were the Dem nominee, they would have unleashed hell on Bernie, blasting his quasi "nazi socialist" youth organization memberships and his "free college" for all garbage
Bernie is a nice old man, but he is a broken record of division, the "rich against the poor"
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John M
climber
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It started well before Bernie. Bernie would have had no shot if the Dems had a better candidate. He wouldn't have even tried if the Dems had a better candidate. The simple fact that he got as far as he did should tell you how weak a candidate Hillary was.
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dirtbag
climber
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Well lituya/skip, trump is a racist. Yet, you and most other republicans continue to defend him.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Oh, the guy with Stormy Danica. Thanks.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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xcon knows the people do not vote on anything and the majority does not rule
we are a representative democracy
the fore fathers wanted it that way, they felt the public was dumb as hell and knew nothing
but if you were a white, male, land owner then you qualified as being smart enough to vote
to vote only for another white, male, land owner
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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One of Jefferies best
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Read it and weep.
Uber uber alles?
Buddy can you spare a ride?
Take a hike.
This is why Cohen and Trump opt for arbitration "agreements".
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Xcon stated
affording a return to the free college system that we had a few decades ago wouldn't pain the system one wit fiscally
when I bring this up in conversation with the conseratives I'm subject to they hem and haw and then tell me they are afraid of what bringing education to the minorities will mean to the lifestyle their accustomed to
your siding with these sensibilities
why? ---------------------------
when was college free, ever, in the USA, other than by scholarship a couple of decades ago well before lotteries? I paid my own tuition and books a couple of decades ago and believe me if someone had told me it was free I would signed up
Since I totally disagree and frankly are shocked you actually believe college was free a couple of decades ago, I cannot see how you state that I am siding with conservative sensibilities have told you "are afraid of what bringing education to the minorities will mean to the lifestyle their accustomed to"
Exon, you must be having a d bad day, I have never such distorted logic from you before.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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In the 1960's in California going to college was very inexpensive. Not free mind you
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Zbrown! Re your mention:
In the 1960's in California going to college was very inexpensive. Not free mind you
I put myself through school at the U of Idaho 1967-71 with the help of a mutual fund my maternal Grandmother set up for me, & all her grandchildren. But, after finding summer work on a Forest Service Helicopter fire crew the summer of 1969, I had more money than I needed with summer fire-crew work from then on.
I had a car, but still shared a seedy two-bedroom apartment with 4 room-mates & lived the poor college student life. But, I didn't have to find work during the school year either.
It's hard to imagine that college has now become so expensive that folks can't pay for it with summer jobs & school-term work.
I'm sure it is all the fault of the Republicans, since they hate those liberal college-educated voters.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Lituyu! Re your spew:
Must be a recent thing then. Hate to burst your bubble again, but Democrats don't have a lock on college-educated voters. (FWIW)
Per your charts, the most recent figures on college-educated voters shows a leaning of 37% Democrat to 31% Republican.
That's easily enough reason for Republicans to discourage kids from attending college.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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LMAO...good one fritz....
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Yes, I suppose the children of Republicans will be attending college in decreasing numbers--since only the children of elitist Democrats can now afford to go. :-)
Truth is, college looks a lot like big hospitals nowadays. More about ribbon-cutting ceremonies and less about learning/patient care.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Meli didn't go to college
=
Quote Here
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Big guy looks like a steam shovel about to eat some dirt...
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Per your charts, the most recent figures on college-educated voters shows a leaning of 37% Democrat to 31% Republican.
One election does not a trend make. That was the point. Apparently lost. Dig deeper. I know you can.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Must be a recent thing. Hate to burst your bubble again, but Democrats and liberals don't have a lock on college-educated voters. (FWIW)
it's obvious that you are not a college graduate.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Read Fritz's original premise re college-educated voters and college affordability. Context is difficult for you sometimes, I know.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Must be a recent thing then. Hate to burst your bubble again, but Democrats don't have a lock on college-educated voters.
The problem is, that the website you link does not, itself, agree with your underlying premise:
Americans overall are better educated than they were a quarter-century ago, and this change also has had a profound impact on the composition of the two parties. The share of voters who have a college degree or more education has increased by 10 percentage points since 1992, from 23% to 33%. Better-educated voters are increasingly identifying as Democrats and expressing liberal attitudes across a range of issues.
Since 1992, the share of Democratic and Democratic-leaning registered voters with at least a college degree has increased sharply, from 21% to 37%. Among Republicans, 31% have at least a college degree, up only slightly from 28% in 1992. As a consequence, a greater proportion of Democrats than Republicans now have a college degree or more education.
What you seem to be ignoring is the TREND, which has changed the numbers a great deal.
The other two big demographic trends: There are a lot of teens ageing into the voting block, and they seem motivated. Not towards Republicans. 90,000 have pre-registered to vote, just in California.
We had about 45,000 people die of opiate OD last year, and this seems to be a disease of less educated, less wealthy white people----in other words, Republicans.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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We had about 45,000 people die of opiate OD last year, and this seems to be a disease of less educated, less wealthy white people----in other words, Republicans.
Sorry, Ken, but you blew it with that last sentence. I thought libs like you were peddling the notion that Republicans were the wealthy ones? You can't have it both ways.
In any event, the level of arrogance found among urban elites is often seeded with the notion that the vast majority of college grads vote for Democrats. Fritz was employing this device--and the numbers just don't bear it out.
As for my original reply--"must be a recent thing. Hate to burst your bubble again, but Democrats and liberals don't have a lock on college-educated voters. (FWIW)"--well, again, I don't see where the aforementioned liberal arrogance is earned. The 2008 election saw more college-educated voters cast for McCain than for Obama. Do two cycles make a trend? Who knows.
The other side of the blade is this: Fewer HS grads are voting for Democrats. Are you abandoning them? No doubt Republicans are happy to have them--their votes look just like the ones cast by smarm with a credential. People don't like being maligned, mocked and looked down upon. And you Dems are doing a fine job of alienating your former base.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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How affordable was college in the 1960's?
Whaal you could go with a small NDEA loan and part-time work.
Almost free.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Russian Bot propangada
They worked the Jade Helm Conspiracy in 2015
with our very own Ron Anderson repeating the bot conspiracy
"They're coming fer us"
Former CIA director says Russian bots amplified Jade Helm conspiracies
https://thinkprogress.org/russian-bots-amplified-jade-helm-conspiracies-6caa41073c08/
In 2015, a new conspiracy theory swept across much of the American South and Southwest, claiming that then-President Barack Obama was planning on using an upcoming military exercise to install martial law across the country.
Known as Jade Helm, the exercise took part over a number of states, including Texas. The conspiratorial concerns were sufficient enough to convince Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) to send the Texas State Guard to monitor the exercises — a move that a plurality of Texans agreed with.
In other words, Repubs will fall for any lie if you attach liberal, Hillary or Obama to it
Just look at the crazy sh#t Litya claims liberals are responsible for!
High college costs, low wages, high cost of living are ALL because of Republican policies, and the poorest of the poor vote Republican, they VOTE FOR Lower wages and fewer jobs
Can you explain why?
I can, they're dupes, that's why.
Fewer HS grads are voting for Democrats. Are you abandoning them? That's some crazy speculation
The Repubs have abandoned reality, so why the F would you say the Dems have abandoned them.
The Democratic Party is their only hope, the Repubs are hell bent on making this country a hell hole so the rich can use them as slave labor
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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well, zbrown
I went to college in the 60s, it took me six years instead of four to get a Bachelors
in addition to tuition and books, I had to pay food and rent
while making $2 an hour pumping gas at 30 below zero in the Minnesota winters
so yeah, I disagree, college was not even close to being "free", for me anyway
perhaps your experience was different?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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after the last election, republicans should be stripped of their voting rights for the next 100 years as punishment for the world wide damage and embarrassment inflicted by this cheese nug we call our president.
Ground Chuck. I suspect you are infected with 1.5 years worth of virus from TESC. Am I right?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Student debt has now overtaken both car loans and credit card debt as the second largest type of debt ($1.48 trillion), behind mortgages. Student loans cannot be ended through bankruptcy, they will always be there. Student debt carries interest rates of 7% to 8%, mortgages, @ about 4.50%, car loans @ about 3.5%.
This is a huge problems that will plague some borrowers for the rest of their lives. Average student debt in 2017 was about $39,400. Average monthly payment is $351/month. Over 11% of loans are in default (90 days late).
A lot of students never finish college but still owe the money; not every student should go to college; there are other options leading to reasonable incomes such as trade schools or apprenticeships, or attending junior college to see if you can have the right stuff.
I, as a parent, have been very fortunate with college education for my daughter as she attended Smith College on a full scholarship, to the tune of about $200,000 for the four years. She then got her MS at the University of Vermont, again on a scholarship. She worked all summers for spending money. We couldn't have afforded to pay for this and I never would have allowed her to get in debt over college.
The cost of a college education is f*#king ridiculous.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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I went to college in the 60s, it took me six years instead of four to get a Bachelors
Fact is, school is still fairly affordable--especially if the student goes to a public university, stays in-state, and finishes on time. More so if he or she lives at home and/or completes the first two years at a community college.
Truth is, the marketing of "the college experience" by Big University Inc. racks up a huge part of the bill.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump is threatening to sue democrats who are behind mueller investigation.. Cheetoboi is like a caged animal lashing out in fear and anger...Avenatti thinks Don will resign when the disgusting truth about him is told...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Americans overall are better educated than they were a quarter-century ago,
I can think of quite a few metrics that could dispel that assertion. They might be packing
more sheepskins but they’re at least, if not more, stoopid.
What do they eat? Crap.
What do they watch on TV? Crap.
What movies do they watch? Crap.
How do they drive? Like crap.
How do they save for their future? Like crap.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Avenatti thinks Don will resign as long as drumpf is in the spotlight, he won't resign.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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IHMO if impeachment looks likely, I think he'll resign. May it come soon. If no impeachment threat I think he'll want to stay in the dogfight.
I'm surprised he hasn't already proposed a great bronze statue of him, like Saddam Hussein's.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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not every student should go to college; there are other options leading to reasonable incomes such as trade schools or apprenticeships,
Exactly. More than just reasonable incomes too; damn good ones.
Marco Rubio was the only Republican talking about this during the primaries. Too bad he wasn't our guy.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Americans overall are better educated than they were a quarter-century ago,
More book learning, yes. But definitely none the wiser.
Mainstream America has become Dug.
We are Dunning Kruger.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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And stay the hell off reilly's lawn
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Its hard to imagine that college has now become so expensive that folks can't pay for it with summer jobs & school-term work.
So googling U of Idaho cost tells me that residents tuition is around $9000 and room and board is around $11000. So working full time all year at a crappy service job and you would Still need loan.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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So googling U of Idaho cost tells me that residents tuition is around $9000 and room and board is around $11000. So working full time all year at a crappy service job and you would Still need loan.
What's so bad about taking out a modest loan to acquire an asset that will presumably enhance your earning potential for the rest of your life, especially when said loan is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mainstream America has become Dug.
Certainly half of America has - it's how trump got elected.
Oh look, it's a muslim
Oh look, it's a black
Oh look, it's an immigrant
Oh look, it's a homosexual
Oh, don't look while we pick your pocket and strip you of any and all protections
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jon, it’s OK today...
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Big guy looks like a steam shovel about to eat some dirt...
Can't let that one go by as a connoisseur of sorts of comedy.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Criminals are celebrities on the Right Wing.
The bigger the A-hole, the bigger the support
Wrong is right
up is down
Black is white
They are the opposite of Public Service
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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Fact is, school is still fairly affordable--especially if the student goes to a public university, stays in-state, and finishes on time.
Your "facts" are not facts at all, in the context of the reality that over 6 billion people are capable of perceiving.
Here are some FACTS about the affordability of college education today. The example here is indicative of the current situation, not some sort of aberration or exception to the rule.
California Polytechnic State University is less expensive than the more elite University of California programs. It provides one of the best values for cost vs. earning power upon graduation. It is, therefore, at the very top of the list of "fairly affordable" public, state universities.
FACT 1:
Tuition and fees in 1981 were $139, per quarter, for full time, 12 or more class units. That comes out to $417 per year.
FACT 2:
Today, tuition and fees are $9432 for one year, for state residents. For others, add about another $12,000 to the tuition bill.
https://financialaid.calpoly.edu/coa1718.html
FACT 3:
Inflation over that time means $1116.52 has the same purchasing power today, as $417 had back then.
FACT 4:
$9432 is 8.5 times $1116.
FACT 5:
Tuition and fees at Cal Poly have risen 8.5 times the rate of inflation.
There are other fact that can further demonstrate that higher education is becoming less affordable. One obvious example is declining public grant monies that have been supplanted by student loans that profit big banks.
There is NO question that higher public education, even at its most favorable, is significantly more expensive today, and getting worse. Public education, in general, is being systematically defunded by idiots like Trump and Ditsy Davos. Those two were born to extreme wealth, and never saw a tuition bill in their lives. Trump, Davos and other inheritance plutocrats will do anything to maintain their self-exalted position in society, even if it means destroying that society.
Even without the rampant inbreeding that afflicted the upper classes in the Roman Empire, today's plutocrats exhibit extreme stupidity and self-destruction, working hard to wreck the very thing they are so afraid of losing. Their plan is to hunker down, with sophisticated weaponry, and use that to shoot out the flames as the house burns down.
The GOP's Master Plan for the future of America has the following features. ENJOY!
1) Cut taxes, primarily to benefit wealthy people and big corporations.
2) Reduce and eliminate social programs due to a lack of revenue to fund them.
3) Shift public education funds to private schools with a partisan agenda.
4) Large donations and bribes will be the primary fuel of the political process.
5) Defund basic research, to ensure impaired and inferior technological prowess in the future.
6) Greatly increase military spending and present a belligerently nationalistic posture to other nations.
7) Eliminate diplomats in favor of hawks and CIA operatives to set forth foreign policy.
8) Embrace a last-man-standing strategy to declining resources.
9) Eliminate all truth, facts and reality when communicating with the voting public.
10) Concentrate political power in the hands of a few plutocrats, with a buffoon dictator at the top.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
The plutocrats don't realize that if foreign aggressors come knocking on the city walls, the disaffected and enslaved lower classes will have no vested interest in protecting the wealth held by just a few.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Even without the rampant inbreeding that afflicted the upper classes in the Roman Empire, today's plutocrats exhibit extreme stupidity and self-destruction, working hard to wreck the very thing they are so afraid of losing. Hey, I like this one too!
Climate change alone will almost certainly adversely affect all but the very richest of the plutocrats. You would think that they would understand the long-term consequences to their progeny. I mean, this is evolution 101 -- protect your genetic lineage.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Welcome to the GOP privatization of ‘Merica. It is all pay to play now boyz and girlz. It you can’t pay, you can join the rest of the serfs, feeding your feudal overlords or fighting their battles for them. The NRA will make sure the fascist militias are well armed to suppress any uprisings.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Tuition and fees at Cal Poly have risen 8.5 times the rate of inflation.
There is NO question that higher public education, even at its most favorable, is significantly more expensive today, and getting worse. Public education, in general, is being systematically defunded by idiots like Trump and Ditsy Davos.
Tom, once you calm down I suggest writing your governor and state legislature--Democrats all. Avoid using allcaps, bold text, italics, and the hyperbole you seem fond of.
The people of California and their chosen Democratic Party representatives are free to fund higher education to whatever degree they see fit. And they have been for decades.
FACTS! Facts! Facts! FACTS!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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^^^ Same reason Pelosi won't yield to younger more attractive Dems: EGO
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zBrown
Ice climber
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There is no free lunch?
Seems to be an ongoing topic of (x)conversation
So as I recall, in my last undergraduate year at the University of California fees were about $81/qtr. I had a couple thousand dollar NDEA loan (interest free until you got out of graduate school and then 3%) and I lived in a student co-op which required about 10 hours of work a week.
So it was not luxurious, but comfortable and easily managed.
$243/yr in fees seems almost free to me.
I guess I owe Edmund G. 'Pat' Brown (not my daddy) and Jesse 'Big Daddy' Unruh a debt of gratitude
What does Donny The court Trumpster owe his daddy
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
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I suggest writing your governor and state legislature--Democrats all.
Another false statement, coming from what appears to be an FSB-controlled propaganda bot.
For the record, exactly one half of the California governors since 1981 - three out of six - have been Republicans, not Democrats. Over the past 100 years, 11 out of 16 (69%) of California's governors have been Republicans.
At no time, as in NEVER, has either the California state assembly, or the California state senate, been populated solely by members from a single political party.
Information technology has been weaponized with the goal of artificially affecting the outcomes of elections worldwide. A related goal is to engender public mistrust of the government, and foment citizens' mistrust of each other.
America is currently under attack by a foreign enemy engaged in Psychological Operations (PSY-OPS) against the nation. President Trump is engaged in his own brand of Psy-Ops against the nation, which has the effect of aiding and abetting the enemy's Psy-Ops. That is the very definition of treason.
The digitally-launched cyber operations want to divide the nation, polarize us, and destroy the integral, coherent strength of the nation that has traditionally been what made America great. The foreign enemy is attempting to divide the nation, in order to make us easier to attack. Trump's continual lies, and his attempts to decree an alternative reality, empower the foreign enemy.
Red Chinese hats displaying a MAGA platitude are not going to offset the current attacks on America. Trump's MAGA hats are part of the problem. They lull wearers into a false sense of national pride, as if the president was a competent and patriotic defender of the Constitution.
Here's something for the GOP to embrace. It's a variation on events from the 1980s, updated to reflect changing times.
The New President of the NRA is Oliver North
Weapon availability will be financed by drug sales operations conducted within the United States. Oxycontin and fentany - not cocaine - will be the cash cows this time around.
As a bonus, adverse foreign interference in a sovereign nation's domestic affairs (ours) will also be part of the current events.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Happy Monday!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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well then Edward, why did you vote tor Hillary then?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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Ike won 55% of the vote based on that platform
And the highest marginal income tax rate was much higher than today. Wealth disparity wasn't a national crisis, and people didn't live in fortified compounds.
The Interstate Highway System and affordable college education were just two results from Ike's domestic policies.
Nobody called Ike a commie, back then.
Today, Ike would quit the Republican Party, in disgust, after witnessing the previous few years. Ike defeated Germany, and its duplicitous propaganda machine, to prevent its pathological dysfunction from spreading to other nations.
If Ike were alive today, he would lead the fight against Trump and the alternative reality narrative that Trump and his echo chamber present to the nation.
The Ghost of Eliot Spitzer Past is back in the news. Dominique Strauss-Kahn's sex scandal also seems strangely familiar.
New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has resigned, following a report on allegations of assault by multiple women, as printed in The New Yorker. Physically abusive behavior, sometimes in bed after both parties had been drinking alcohol, seems to be what is alleged.
The first incident described in The New Yorker article is shocking enough, all by itself. If true, Schneiderman did the right thing by resigning. But, the victim in that incident continued to be involved with him romantically for almost two more years.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/four-women-accuse-new-yorks-attorney-general-of-physical-abuse
The New York Attorney General's office seemed poised to investigate, indict, and convict Michael Cohen, in a manner that would obviate any pardon Trump might offer in exchange for Cohen's loyalty and silence. The Southern District Court presently has jurisdiction over the treasure trove of Cohen evidence, but it's been speculated that at least some of it would be passed to the State of New York, to allow a separate prosecution in that jurisdiction. A similar situation has already occurred with Paul Manafort, who is facing both Federal and State indictments.
Until today's resignation, Eric Schneiderman headed up the New York prosecutor's office that would have accepted and acted upon any such bequeathed Cohen evidence.
Maybe it's all just a coincidence . . . . . . . . . . . .
And, maybe Benghazi doesn't rhyme with fugazi.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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JulioOnKnees next Atty General of NY?
Make New York FD (i.e. fukked)
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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coming from what appears to be an FSB-controlled propaganda bot.
One of my favorite memes--anyone who disagrees with liberal whackjobs here is a Russian bot. Or a troll. What a small world you all live in. Clearly you are missing something when you talk only to one another. And with the exception of, maybe, JH, none of you seem to be in possession of a generalist praxis that would earn you or your views any standing outside this forum.
Anyway, sorry things aren't going your way. I know you all had such high hopes for the downfall:
http://www.cnn.com/2018/05/07/politics/cnn-poll-trump-steady-right-direction-rises/index.html
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Lituya...CNN is fake news...Even Trump knows this...Got a more reliable source...? rj
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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UpChuck posted....
Abusing Others for enjoyment
Action, failing to take
Aloof
Anger
Antagonistic
Appearances, preoccupied or obsessed with
Argumentative
Arrogance
Beauty, obsession or preoccupation with
Bigotry
Blaming others
Boastful
Boundaries, not setting
Busybody
Cheating
Choosing easy prey,
Closed-mindedness
Coldheartedness
Companions, seeking corrupt / lower
Compassion, lack of
Competitive, excessively
Complaining
Conceit
Condemning
Controlling
Cowardice
Critical Crude
Deceptive, deceiving
Destructive
Devious
Dishonesty
Egotistical
Exaggeration
Excess
Fanatical
Favoritism, playing favorites
Fearful
Filthy-mindedness
Gluttony
Greed
Harsh
Hatred of others
Ignorance
Ill wishes toward others
Immodesty
Impatience
Incompassionate
Inconsiderate
Indifferent
Injustice
Insecure in your own skin
Insensitivity
Insincere
Intolerance
Irresponsibility
Jealousy
Judgmental of others
Knowing it all
Leering, crude lewd
Lifestyles, not accepting others’
Love and friendship, refusal to accept
Lustful
Lying
Manipulative Measuring self against others
Meddling
Overcompensating for weaknesses
Physical appearance, obsession or preoccupation with
Playing God
Possessive
Preachy
Prejudice
Pride, False
Reckless
Revenge, vengefulness
Rude
Sarcastic
Secretive
Seeking attention
Seeking negative attention
Self Importance
Self Justification
Self Seeking
Self, putting self on pedestal
Self-absorbed
Self-centeredness
Self-indulgence
Selfishness
Sex, hidden
Stealing
Step on others to get to top
Thoughtless
Uncharitableness
Undisciplined
Unfaithful
Ungrateful
Unreliable
Untrustworthy
Valuing the opinion of a sick mind
Vengeful
Immoral Thinking
Reeks of Liberalism. I could peg a different Lib for each adjective.
Good job UpChuck. Meaningfulll!!!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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I thought the sin categories only numbered seven.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2018 - 02:36am PT
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Trump The Lothario was notorious long before his wife Ivana couldn't tolerate any more openly public cheating, and she divorced him in 1992.
Trump told Howard Stern, during a live radio broadcast, that his "personal Vietnam" was avoiding STDs. A draft dodger, he said he should receive the Congressional Medal of Honor for surviving his own degenerate promiscuity.
Trump told Stern, during a different on-air broadcast, that "deeply troubled women are always the best in bed," implying that Trump had preyed upon and exploited vulnerable women before he made the statement.
Candice Bergen went on a date with Trump c. 1965. She said there was no physical contact, no attraction, and no second date. Trump showed up in a 3-piece burgundy suit that matched his loafers and his limo. Bergen said Trump was a "d#@&%e". She was back home by 9 p.m.
Salma Hayek says Trump hit on her when he knew she was already involved with someone else.
Emma Thompson turned Trump down for a date in 1996-1997, during the time she was filming the movie Primary Colors. Trump was married to Marla Maples at the time.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/14/media/trump-stern-vietnam-stds/index.html
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/14/candice-bergens-60s-date-with-donald-trump-he-was-a-d#@&%e/
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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CNN is fake news...Even Trump knows this...Got a more reliable source...? rj
How about Reuters?
Washington, DC - The Reuters/Ipsos Core Political poll has a significant realignment this week across a number of metrics. Most pronounced is President Trump’s approval rating which currently sits at 48% with all Americans. His number with registered voters is essentially the same at 49%. Corresponding with Trump’s stronger approval rating, evaluations of his job performance across the board are stronger this week from 57% approving of his handling of the economy to 44% approving of the way he treats people like them. On the generic congressional ballot, our current poll shows a +5-point advantage for Democrats, the smallest lead we’ve seen in recent weeks.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Americans are really smart, well read and informed
85% of Americans believe in ethereal spirits, "Angels"
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sorry Edward...Trump said Reuters was fake also...it's liberal ...rj
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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In his First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1817, President James Monroe warned:
"What raised us to the present happy state?...
The Government has been in the hands of the people. To the people, therefore ... is the credit due ...
It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising the sovereignty.
Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found.
The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin ..."
Are we there?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2018 - 08:17am PT
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Yeah, we're there.
Trump is a master manipulator and deceiver. His audience just laps up whatever he puts out for them.
A little under 50% of Americans think Trump is a great president. They don't care that he lies, because they like what he says; they want to be lied to.
Ten years ago, maybe 30% liked being lied to. Ten years from now, 60% will want to be lied to.
The Trumptenstein monster has come to life, and after him will come another.
It's the decay of the republic into an imperium, the same that happened to Rome.
Maybe China will save us by invading us.
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WBraun
climber
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You are constantly repeating yourself over and over.
This means you are talking to yourself.
Like most all st00pid politards, who constantly talk to themselves.
To the voices in your tiny little head .......
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Why are we there?
Because we allow the right wing media outlets to lie to us and call it news.
50% of the population are completely misinformed and think the lies they hear are facts
We need to enforce our propaganda laws that we enacted after WWII to make sure what happened to Germany will never happen to us.
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WBraun
climber
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50% of the population are completely misinformed and think the lies they hear are facts
You definitely are one of them yourself.
Brainwashed to the max .....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2018 - 09:19am PT
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You are constantly repeating yourself over and over.
I believe if a vote were taken here, you'd win the contest for continually repeating the same words and phrases, over and over.
I make the effort to absorb news - fake videos, fake lawyers, fake statements, fake indictments, fake courts, fake evidence and fake people in fake jails getting faked by fake con bosses - and then I attempt to make sense of it all.
I am too old to climb thin cracks, so the only finger exercise I ever get is typing politard nonsense into my computer.
Sometimes, it makes people laugh.
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dirtbag
climber
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So what’s the new plan for Iran?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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So what’s the new plan for Iran?
Hi Dirtbag,
the new plan is for thoughts an prayers to go out to the other countries who signed the Iran deal
now that America is no longer part of it
because that black President put it together and everything he did must be negated
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dirtbag
climber
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Peace on earth through thoughts and prayers.
What could go wrong?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Tom,
you're right about the top repeater.
It's funny about human nature that often the least useful comments get such excessive attention. (just like the trump campaign)
WBraun,
In my opinion, the Democrats have started to learn something from the success of Republican garbage political campaigns, especially the reality that often negative campaigning works.
Repeated publicity about the crappy and crooked job done by many politicians is the only way to convince many voters. There is no way to stop the nonsense spewed by alt news. The only thing you can do is to attempt to overwhelm the distortions with real reporting.
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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I believe if a vote were taken here, you'd win the contest for continually repeating the same words and phrases, over and over.
Correct.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Ironically it's the "deep state" (career bureaucrats and politicians from both sides of the aisle) that are the firewall between Trump and a complete dictatorship.
Lord knows that republicans in Congress have abdicated their responsibility of checks and balances and an electorate with a serious case of short man's complex decided to throw ape sh!t at the wall with their sacred right to vote.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Where do I vote brotherb? Can I vote twice?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Trump will win again in 2020.
The reason? Apathy.
The laziness of the self righteous will continue to be their downfall.
Keep complaining on obscure websites. It seems to be your only strategy.
IMHO, you get what you deserve.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Fuk you and your apathy
We don't have no stinking apathy
Trump won't make it to 2020
and if he did, the Repubs would primary him
and if he won that, he would lose in the largest landslide ever, fact
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Anyone who still supports Trump after all the awful things that have come straight out of his mouth has self-identified who they are and what they believe in.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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"I know I've f#cked you plenty, but vote for me in 2020!" Trump's new motto.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
|
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Tom@ Maybe China will save us by invading us.
Finally, a true reveal! From a decidedly undemocratic stooge.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
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Trump dumped the Iran deal.
Trump's folly indicates to the North Koreans that he is capricious, and can't be trusted to keep his end of a deal. North Korea is not going to enter a similar deal, and then wait for Trump to defraud them.
Iran has the whole world, except for the U.S. and Israel, with them on the nuclear arms deal. Iran has said they will not re-negotiate it. They want to keep the deal with the rest of the world, and get what they want, without the U.S. being involved.
South Korea and China may do a North Korea deal themselves, without the United States. North Korea was wary of dealing with Trump even before he reneged on the Iran deal. Now, they won't trust him at all.
Trump, like a child, with throw a tantrum when he is marginalized, and will call for economic sanctions and banking restrictions for any countries that don't join him in punishing Iran and North Korea for not bending to his unilateral will.
Trump, Bolton and Pompeo are the Three Stooges of International Relations.
All we can do is pray for a heart attack trifecta.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Enjoy your peak while it lasts.
Fumbling North Korea for a return from the 10 yard line (by dumping the Iran deal) will bring your numbers back down within a month, or so.
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Trump
climber
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New Gallup poll has my approval rating up to 42%.
Since November, my approval has gone up 5 points among 18-29 year olds, and gone up 7 points among people who rarely or never go to church.
Sorry righteous people, but if this is what the bull’s fall feels like, I’m Ok with that.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 2 -
"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur . . ."
Ahhh, the gift of Obama and his contempt for The Constitution. What was done is now undone. A fool's deal from the start.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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The politard Libtools here will never learn.
They will persist their endless circle jerk in this bubble of stupidity.
A sanctuary from reality.
A 'safe space' to obsess(celebrate?) over Trump.
What a waste of life stuck to your sticky icky chairs.
Norton must be dishing out his narco's to all of you froggy brained fools.
Oh wait....that's a problem beset to poor uneducated white people
Hmmmm?
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dirtbag
climber
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"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur . . ."
Ahhh, the gift of Obama and his contempt for The Constitution. What was done is now undone. A fool's deal from the start.
What treaty?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
|
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What treaty?
Exactly.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Dirtbag,
just ignore it
Latuya does not have the intellectual curiosity to know the difference between Treaties and International Agreements
he does not even know that his beloved Republicans in the House and Senate during that time did not bother to legally contest by even a simple normal lawsuit or action to request a ruling on the International Agreement to be a "Treaty" as it was OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE IT WAS NOT A TREATY
they knew the definition of Treaty and Latuya's contention of it requiring 2/3 Senate approval was dead in the water, uncontested
really Latuya, you keep giving your party bad cover, always misinformed and uniformed
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Russian billionaire gave Trump the money to pay to keep his harum quiet. That is more than collusion.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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@Norton - I went to college in the 60s, it took me six years instead of four to get a Bachelors
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dirtbag
climber
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just ignore it
Latuya does not have the intellectual curiosity to know the difference between Treaties and International Agreements
Yeah...But sometimes, if folks like Skip are intent on digging themselves into a hole, I like to hand them shovels. :-)
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Lituya,
Your photo:
Originated witha conservative who promised with an scrap of paper peace in our time. It took a liberal like FDR and a bunch of commies to put Hitler in his place. Thanks for reminding us!
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Naivete knows no ideology.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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NAFTA hasn't been dumped. It's being renegotiated.
Very few have the status of treaties, as the presidents rarely bother to refer them to the senate any more.
Why do you think this is the case MH? Norton prolly knows.
You clowns don't have a clue what's going on outside your fart bubble.
Make-up and distort whatever BS you can to prop up your faulty premises.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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I think he provided the answer for ya'll
APATHY
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Maybe China will save us by invading us.
Tom has entered the Querencia Phase of his own topic.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 8, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
Russian billionaire gave Trump the money to pay to keep his harum quiet. That is more than collusion.
Slipped right by them didn't it?
Trump will just deny it happened.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Lituya quoted my post regarding college being "free" decades ago
@Norton - I went to college in the 60s, it took me six years instead of four to get a Bachelors
does Lituya have a point to make by quoting the fact that because I had to work at a gas station in order to pay tuition, rent, food - that it took me longer to graduate college than other kids who had scholarships or parents footing the bill?
or is Tuly as confused about how this college thing works as he is about "Treaties"?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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I think Lituya's point is that he supports Trump ( but not really he seems too smart for that ) and if you don't he'll find a way to ridicule you...?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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China absolutely LOVES trump. They're just swooping in behind every vacuum we leave in our isolationist wake with lots of emigrants and Yaun up the jing-jang. By the time he leaves office, we will have ceded half of the world that was formerly aligned with us.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Another hero of the left.....you guys can pick'em. At least we get rid of them. You just keep them.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Poor Norton. He's free to use all manner of insult and bile--but cries like a baby when someone punches back. Typical lib.
I worked my way through my first degree in the early 80s doing graveyard shift at a convenience store-deli making sandwiches for drunks and my fellow classmates. And, occasionally, getting a handgun pointed at my chest. I suspect if we met in person, you'd be more civil since our stories sound similar to a degree. I would. But who knows, right?
Don't like your story challenged? Don't be so rude.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Trump got the 3 American prisoners back from N. Korea. Another BIG WIN for Trump.
Yet another no-cost PR giveaway for N. Korea. It would normally be considered diplomatic chump-change but in this case...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2018 - 03:24am PT
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MONEY
$X,000,000
This Big Money, from foreign sources, is now a potential, and indictable, interest in the Mueller investigation into illegal activity.
RUSSIAN BOT says, "Nothing to see here, liberals."
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Give it up Lituya
you got owned, period
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dirtbag
climber
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I’m rarher enjoying Skip’s tortured non-explanations of how Obama supposedly violated the constitution.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 9, 2018 - 08:14am PT
what a f*#king ass. the biggest snowflake there is.
It’s what dictators aspire to do.
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dirtbag
climber
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Back to hillary-bashing. (You know she wields no power right now, right?)
There’s something about hillary-bashing that gives old right wing men stiffies.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Bashing The Donald or Hillary is really poaching the low hanging fruit.
Come on over to the Musk bashing thread!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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"Learn before you speak. It’s a lot easier.” Hahahahah
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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normally considered diplomatic chump-change but in this case...
Trump-change is the new chump-change.
So big. Really. The biggest. Ever.
My penny is bigger than your penny.
Trust me. I know what I'm talking about.
By the way, I don't use windex.
That stuff sucks.
ComicCragMan is 199% correct.
Windex sucks. It's overpriced. All you need to do is mix water, soap, rubbing alcohol and ammonia, and you'll get the same stuff.
If you want it to turn blue, add a few drops of food coloring from the Cake Aisle at the grocery store.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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I’m rarher enjoying Skip’s tortured non-explanations of how Obama supposedly violated the constitution.
well, he is only half white
and according to blah blah he was not smart enough to get into Harvard on his own
-must have been "Affirmative Action"
so when his classmates made him Editor of the Law Review the vote count was surely fraud
*on the other hand, consider how a white guy needed Affirmative Action to get into college
George W Bush was admitted to Yale in 1964 under an affirmative-action policy for children of alumni — what colleges call a “legacy” system. “Legacy” policies — preferential treatment of children of alumni — are the quintessential example of the “old boys network.” Colleges view them as a way to get into the pockets of rich alumni. Admit my child and I am more likely to increase my donations to my alma mater — or at least maintain whatever level of giving worked to help get my child in there.
*Bush never released his high-school grades from Andover — an elite New England prep school that his father had also attended — or his SAT scores. But when The New Yorker got hold of Bush’s Yale records, it discovered that he scored a 566 on the verbal SAT and a 640 on the math SAT — 180 points below the median score for his Yale classmates.
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WBraun
climber
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All you need to do is mix rubbing alcohol with ammonia, and get the same stuff.
Nope .... WRONG!!!!!
You forgot the blue dye.
That's secret ingredient that makes Windex work (rolls eyes), lol.
Anyways you're a good sport Tom. I like you ......:-)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
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WVB, you rescue-my-ass kind of fool, I know where the blue dye, in the Cake Aisle, can be found at the Food 4 Less store. It's right where it was the last time I was there.
I have developed, as a human being, and understand the concept of Object Permanence. Duh.
When I put in a cam, on a free route, it will still be there, so that I can hang on it when the belayer isn't looking.
Alma Mater is literally translated as "our beneficial mother".
Another way to say it is, "A big, fat tit that we're supposed to affix to, and feed".
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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No, you see, we are the ones that insist he resign.
We??
No, it was the Women.
You were too busy getting tooled in the ST circle jerk.
You fools have zero impact on what goes in the real world b/c you are here tooling each other.
Cosby is more in your wheelhouse Tut
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Wasteville....LMAO...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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You can buy Windex at the $.99 store for
You guessed it 😅 Ninety😅-nine cents
Plus you get to keep the souvenir bottle to keep your aviation fuel in for spicing up your medicinal mj
But, if you have a lot of time on your hands you can probablly put the home brew together fora buck fitty
Then you still have to get it outa the toilet somehow
And explain to your fat wife or fat girl friend why she has too pee out in the bushes todayu
Do women have fat beaufriends and/or husbands?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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HoMan, are you the Westside climber (Needles, etc.) that got booted a while back? Your takedowns seem familiar.
Regardless, there haven't been enough guys willing to come out and play lately.
Avanatti has perfectly timed a big turd dump on all of Trumps accomplishments recently as well as exposing the actual link to Russian money- I hope he has a good security detail.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Avenatti doesn't need security as long as Stormy is packin the twin 50's....
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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I'm just wondering what my employer (AT&T) got for their 600 thousand payment to Cohen?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 10, 2018 - 12:23am PT
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It should also be noted the 'hostages' were all missionaries who deliberately entered N. Korea to proselytize despite knowing it's against the law there. This is not a new phenomenon by any means, just the latest round. They knew exactly what they were doing and the risks involved - more like 'martyrs' than 'hostages'.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 10, 2018 - 05:51am PT
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Three Americans held in North Korea have been released and are back in the US.
Thanks Mr President.
-------------------------------------------
Washington (CNN)The generic congressional ballot has continued to tighten, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS, with the Democrats' edge over Republicans within the poll's margin of sampling error for the first time this cycle.
About six months out from Election Day, 47% of registered voters say they back the Democratic candidate in their district, 44% back the Republican. Voters also are divided almost evenly over whether the country would be better off with the Democrats in control of Congress (31%) or with the GOP in charge (30%). A sizable 34% -- including nearly half of independent voters (48%) -- say it doesn't matter which party controls Congress...
The Democrats' advantage in the generic ballot dipped from 16 points in February to six points in March to just three points now...
By 48% to 43%, registered voters say they would rather back a candidate who opposes Donald Trump than one who supports the President. That margin has narrowed from the 52% who opposed Trump to the 41% who supported him in January.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 10, 2018 - 05:55am PT
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Thanks Dennis Rodman for being so nice to his lil buddy rocket man...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 10, 2018 - 07:31am PT
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Easiest way to reduce surface? Hock a loogeie and smear it around and rinse in water. Divers always do it to scuba masks, I have never had a mask fog.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 10, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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Thanks Dennis Rodman for being so nice to his lil buddy rocket man...
So, I've heard that trump is giving a copy of Rocket man, by Elton John, to Kim.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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May 10, 2018 - 10:07am PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 10, 2018 - 10:12am PT
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^^^^
my goodness but Trump supporters absolutely just ADORE him don't they?
must be all those coal mining jobs he created for the unemployed in Appalachia
or was it the expansion of healthcare?
oh wait, it was the reduction in the Corporate tax rate, that's it !!!
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Trump
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 10:42am PT
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/opinion/democrats-partisanship-identity-politics.html
“The politics of economic self-interest that underpinned the New Deal era have been supplanted by “expressive partisanship,” a form of “affective polarization,” as political scientists put it.
A distinctly social type of polarization that includes political prejudice, anger, enthusiasm, and activism has superceded political conflict over issues.
The more highly educated also tend to be more strongly identified along political lines.
Political knowledge tends to increase the effects of identity as more knowledgeable people have more informational ammunition to counter stories they don’t like.”
1800 posts of intelligent tribal people who’ve convinced ourselves that we’re just intelligent. Cool.
At least we’re no longer doing our little tribal thing over skin color. Me, I don’t even notice skin color, like the way we use that picture of the attractive thin woman sitting on her boyfriend’s lap. I’m one of you - I’m just righteously intelligent.
I would like to hope that Trump will win a Nobel Peace prize for denuclearizing North Korea, but as Kid Cudi says, don’t f*#k up the Feng Shui (of your tribal political identity).
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 10, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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Rincon,
The US is certainly not immune from fascists and totalitarian leanings.
Respect for the Constitution? Rule of Law? A system of Checks and Balances?
That's all for libtard sissies. Isn't it more fun to grab a gun and threaten violence! What could possibly go wrong once it is no longer possible to investigate the executive branch?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 10, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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“The politics of economic self-interest that underpinned the New Deal era have been supplanted by “expressive partisanship,” a form of “affective polarization,” as political scientists put it.
The new "liberal" embraces a zero tolerance attitude towards non-believers. Intellectual discourse is out. Crush the "opposition" is in. Sadly, many of the opposition are old school liberals. But embracing diversity (of thought) is unacceptable.
Every week, I hear about intolerance of the new left. Richard Ned Lebow, Bret Weinstein, the Starbucks manager, Nicholas and Erika Christakis etc.
Interesting times
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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The more highly educated also tend to be more strongly identified along political lines.
Not educated, but brainwashed to the hilt .......
Libtards are brainwashed to the hilt .....
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 10, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
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They don’t know jack about window washing.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 10, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
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Intellectual discourse is out.
Seriously? There hasn't been "intellectual discourse" on the right since Buckley died.
The right gave up on "intellectual discourse" sixty years ago when Phillips, then Dent, then Atwater, then Rove decided fear and hate worked oh so much better. In fact, it worked so well, it created and unleashed an anti-intellectual monster which then turned around and devoured the party-formerly-known-as-the-GOP which today, in reality, is a fringe-right collection of extremists, nutjobs and traitors and truly GINO ('GOP-in-name-only') - moderates republicans were shown the door years ago. Hell, Log Cabin republicans are more honest and out in the open today than moderate republicans.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 10, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
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The idea has taken hold that citizens discharge their obligation to the republic merely by ascertaining the political leaning of the person raising an objection.
Once they acquire this knowledge, they believe they have everything they need to exercise the duty of citizenship and make an informed, independent judgment.
But especially today, when the foundational institutions of American life are under constant assault and the very idea of truth is called into question by the loudest voices in the public square, we cannot afford to collapse deliberative democracy into partisan branding.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
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Thank you, lord Jesus, for Robert Mueller.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 10, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
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Remember when you decided to vote for Donald Trump?
When he said John McCain was a not a real hero because Trump's heroes don't get captured?
You liked that one didn't you Boo?
--------
*A White House official derisively dismissed John McCain’s opposition to President Trump’s CIA nominee in a closed-door staff meeting Thursday by saying that the senator from Arizona battling brain cancer is “dying anyway,” according to another White House official with knowledge of the comment.
McCain, 81, who has been at home in Arizona fighting brain cancer. McCain — a Navy officer who was captured in Vietnam after his aircraft crashed and was tortured as a prisoner of war — urged his Senate colleagues to oppose Haspel’s nomination
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 10, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 10, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
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PEW,What do they know,they research.
Brainwashed .......
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 10, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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Seriously? There hasn't been "intellectual discourse" on the right since Buckley died.
The right gave up on "intellectual discourse" sixty years ago when Phillips, then Dent, then Atwater, then Rove decided fear and hate worked oh so much better. In fact, it worked so well, it created and unleashed an anti-intellectual monster which then turned around and devoured the party-formerly-known-as-the-GOP which today, in reality, is a fringe-right collection of extremists, nutjobs and traitors and truly GINO ('GOP-in-name-only') - moderates republicans were shown the door years ago. Hell, Log Cabin republicans are more honest and out in the open today than moderate republicans.
Thanks for the illustration.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 10, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
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One American too stooopid to quit
... a shocker: Donald Trump, a man who took sociopathic pleasure in “firing” people on television for over a decade and allegedly stiffed hundreds of workers and contractors, is a terrible person to work for.
The New York Times reports that Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen—who was branded one of Trump’s “fiercest loyalists” by the New Yorker just two months ago—was so thoroughly berated by Trump in front of the entire cabinet on Wednesday that she was prepared to quit, and even drafted a resignation letter, although she didn’t submit it.
And
Like a bloated, portly fake billionaire rolling off a hooker after a hot 45 seconds of passionate sex, Donald Trump’s ardor for Rudy Giuliani seems to have cooled.
Trump has been mostly unable to hire and retain top-flight litigators because he destroys everyone around him. His record of stacking former staffers like cordwood as they are either fired, humiliated, shamed, permanently scarred, forced to cut off a finger by the Yakuza, morally compromised, or moved into the Witness Protection Program will go down in presidential history. It’s no secret that he’s a spectacular liar at all times and on all subjects, leaving his legal team constantly wary they have a client who combines a stubborn streak and a self-destructive nature with an endless capacity to lie to them about his marital, financial, and political lies.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 10, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
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Healyje- I couldn't agree more. I hated Buckley's politics but he was honest and unapologetic about capitalism and not the State as the provider of society. Yet he revered the state as the the foundation that all factions relie upon and the determiner of the lines not to be crossed.
The current philosophy coming from the right is not actually a philosophy- It's a snake oil salesman, carpet bagger and plantation owner all rolled into one with the sole intent of tearing down the State as we know it and making off with the loot.
Pundits and politicians of the Buckley lineage still exist but they have been marginalized and pegged as compromising intellectuals. Two years ago, not in my wildest dreams, could I have imagine Peggy Noonan and George Will as allies of moderate thinkers.
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ß Î Ř T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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May 10, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 10, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
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From the New York Times:
Kirstjen Nielsen, the homeland security secretary, told colleagues she was close to resigning after President Trump berated her on Wednesday in front of the entire cabinet for what he said was her failure to adequately secure the nation’s borders, according to several current and former officials familiar with the episode.
Ms. Nielsen, who is a protégée of John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, has drafted a resignation letter but has not submitted it, according to two of the people. Well, don't just talk about it, do it for god's sake. Talk is cheap. Have some principles; time to say the Emperor has no clothes. On a similar topic I do not understand how Sanders can stand up and lie every day to the press; she knows she's lying and still does it. Damn, is there no self respect, no basis?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 10, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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Sanders likely makes a good salary lying thru her front teeth....And maybe there's the bonus grab when she has a good performance...
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 10, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
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From the New York Times:
Kirstjen Nielsen, the homeland security secretary, told colleagues she was close to resigning after President Trump berated her on Wednesday in front of the entire cabinet for what he said was her failure to adequately secure the nation’s borders .
Gee, I thought that what was the border patrol was supposed to do.
On a similar topic I do not understand how Sanders can stand up and lie every day to the press; she knows she's lying and still does it. Damn, is there no self respect, no basis? She only has that job because of her daddy. Besides, who would hire her, Walmart?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 10, 2018 - 10:07pm PT
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Yeah, I know who her father is, I just don't understand how anyone could can prostitute themselves like that. I couldn't live with myself; I'd be wiping the slime off all the time and run out of paper towels.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 10, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
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Yeah, I know who her father is, I just don't understand how anyone could can prostitute themselves like that. I couldn't live with myself; I'd be wiping the slime off all the time and run out of paper towels.
I read a profile of her about 8 or 10 months ago that tried to answer that question. Its conclusion was that she doesn’t care whether she’s lying or not, because she feels her job is serving a greater purpose. Namely (I’m paraphrasing here, of course), promoting a right wing evangelical Christian political agenda.
You and I might think that an agenda based on lies is not worth defending, but obviously that is not how she views the world.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 11, 2018 - 05:50am PT
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The current philosophy coming from the right is not actually a philosophy- It's a snake oil salesman, carpet bagger and plantation owner all rolled into one with the sole intent of tearing down the State as we know it and making off with the loot.
What's the current philosophy coming from the left, other than destroy Trump?
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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May 11, 2018 - 05:57am PT
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Well, a more stable peace with North Korea would certainly be an unexpected but welcome side effect of a Trump presidency. And Kim Jong-un and Trump do have a lot in common, characterwise. So, who knows? Maybe they'll hit it off. On the other hand, I worry a bit about two such volatile wingnuts sitting down to talk. At least the encounter will be mediated through translators. Let's hope it works out for the best!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 11, 2018 - 06:11am PT
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Well, a more stable peace with North Korea would certainly be an unexpected but welcome side effect of a Trump presidency. And Kim Jong-un and Trump do have a lot in common, characterwise.
Yep. I think Kim realized he's met his match. One with a much bigger arsenal. Trump's lack of intellect and juvenile bravado may be just the ticket for peaceful coexistence in Korea.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 11, 2018 - 06:35am PT
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First stormy daniels and the hot playboy bunny...Now trump has a juvenile bravado...There's no shame for this president...
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 11, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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^^^^^^^
Oh the constant outrage
The ST Libtard circle jerk never stops
Wasters of life
Endless supplies of drool and greasy mitts
Get out the squeegee sharper!! lol
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 11, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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Trump's lack of intellect
nice to see that you finally admitted that.
but I digress, Do you seriously think China would let trump attack NK?
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 11, 2018 - 07:58am PT
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What's the current philosophy coming from the left, other than destroy Trump?
#crickets#
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 11, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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I read a profile of her about 8 or 10 months ago that tried to answer that question. Its conclusion was that she doesn’t care whether she’s lying or not, because she feels her job is serving a greater purpose. Namely (I’m paraphrasing here, of course), promoting a right wing evangelical Christian political agenda.
ironic in that the trump administration is the least christian like. . . . .in forever
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 11, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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The Conservative/right wing Christian movement is nothing other than a authoritarian cult.
It's mobsters at the top, with goodies for the loyal,
and a guarantee that you can achieve something if you tow the newest pro authoritarian talking points
Like Hitler's henchmen, the base is swarming with rats willing to take it to the next level
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 11, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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What is the liberal/Democratic agenda?
Good paying jobs,
Medicare for all
Affordable college
Strong regulations on Corporations
Good relations with our allies
Clean air and water
Plan for a future
Common sense gun regulations
Stop the predatory what ever
social services for the least among us
Fair Progressive taxation
I can add
But I will say this, Republicans Fight against these American values
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 11, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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yet one more stone in the wall of dismissal of veterans:
White House official derides McCain over his opposition to CIA director nominee: ‘It doesn’t matter, he’s dying anyway’
Like the way they kicked the VA chief aside, in spite of his service, they seem to take great pride in deliberately insulting veterans.
I guess that the veterans have not learned that they are not independent free Americans in this equation, they are expected to be slaves.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 11, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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' for peaceful coexistence in Korea."
what do think that would look like?
Germany
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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May 11, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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' for peaceful coexistence in Korea."
what do think that would look like?
My guess is, US oligarchy freed to do business and trade with the North Korean government, who in turn will have changed nothing about the way they treat their citizens.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 11, 2018 - 03:18pm PT
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There is an armistice which was
... signed on July 27, 1953, and was designed to "insure a complete cessation of hostilities and of all acts of armed force in Korea until a final peaceful settlement is achieved."
So Trump has done a magnificent job of insuring the peace for some 60 years, bone spurs and all.
Kudos Donny
And
Rudy Giuliani is having none of a debate challenge issued by one of his most outspoken critics, Michael Avenatti.
“I wouldn’t debate that guy if they paid me $10 million,” Giuliani, a new lawyer for President Donald Trump, told POLITICO in an interview on Friday. “He’s a liar. All he does is put out statements in the press and they fawn all over him.”
Mr. Giuliani — you just called me a 'pretty unsuccessful lawyer' and stated that you 'can't remember a case he's ever had that meant anything,'" Avenatti said, adding: "1st, you obviously can't remember much. 2nd, check my bio and you will find over a BILLION worth of verdicts and settlements. #dumb."
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 11, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
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What is the liberal/Democratic agenda?
Good paying jobs,
Medicare for all
Affordable college
Strong regulations on Corporations
Good relations with our allies
Clean air and water
Plan for a future
Common sense gun regulations
Stop the predatory what ever
social services for the least among us
Another stand-up Dem
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/nyregion/sheldon-silver-retrial-guilty.html
Craig Fry.....still drooling?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 11, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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Wasting your efforts HoMan--there's not a brain cell to share among them. The saddest (and dumbest) of this little Bolivarian Circle jerk are, a.) young Master Fry; b.) Ground Brain Chuck from the Evergreen State College with no standards; and, of course, c.) Horton who, unfortunately, left his brain back in the late 1960s--and his soul on a few thousand '08 loan applications.
Of course, we can't neglect Tom--the fella who really really really likes to hear himself talk. Especially post-affirmation.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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May 11, 2018 - 10:06pm PT
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Look...
The pot is the kettle! And the kettle is the pot!!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 12, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
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Ground Chuck- finally a lib-bot, good on you!!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 12, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
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Tired of all that "Winning" ?
Notice that gas prices are going up, because you voted for Donald Trump
President Donald Trump's decision to take the U.S. out of the Iran nuclear deal is hitting investors (and gasoline-buying Americans) where it hurts -- the oil market. That's because the U.S. will reimpose sanctions on Iran's economy and its oil exports. … Crude oil has zoomed above $71 a barrel, returning to levels not seen since late 2014 and pushing up pump prices.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 12, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
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Lib - bot,lol.
You are right though, I mean why couldn’t Sweden or Canada hack our elections or collude with a Progressive .
I mean ,it’s legal.....
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 12, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
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proof of the depth of the gene pool....
deflect and laugh, yeah you voted for a third grader for Pres
good night honey boo boos
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 12, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 12, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
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Brennan...what's with all the questions....? You channeling Mueller...?
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 12, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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Norton says....
Notice that gas prices are going up, because you voted for Donald Trump
Always sound logic from you Norton. L0L!!!!
Hey Norton, at least pill prices are going down b/c of Trump.
Let yur l00zer pill-brain-fog-freek-flag-fly!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 12, 2018 - 10:04pm PT
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Hey Norton, at least pill prices are going down b/c of Trump.
Man, you did swallow the delusional red pill if you really think drug prices are going to be coming down.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 12, 2018 - 10:13pm PT
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Homan! Re your thoughts!
Hey Norton, at least pill prices are going down b/c of Trump.
Homan: I sigh for you. Gas prices went down when Obama was president, way down.
Gas prices & the price of everything, are going up, way up, during Trump's presidency.
Just suck it up #loser#!
What's good for corporate America is good for Trump!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 12, 2018 - 10:26pm PT
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Homan is a ho for punishment ...Have much trouble swallowing Trump's horse pill..? First it was the tax break for the middle class ( 1% ) ...wink , nod...then jobs for the coal miners...double wink...next is cheap drugs...lol...hopefully the lower class can buy vaseline over the counter cause Donny's gonna be loggin some sausage over-time on middle america's back end...
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ß Î Ř T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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May 12, 2018 - 11:45pm PT
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 13, 2018 - 12:20am PT
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Cosmic, man, talk about taking the delusional red pill. That's some classic shite right there. Pretty much the complete fringe-right pablum menu writ large.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 13, 2018 - 07:07am PT
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Yes, and we are to believe they all are Clinton supporters plotting the conspiracy of all conspiracies to keep Trump from making America great again.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 13, 2018 - 08:42am PT
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Dan Rather is indignant:
As a citizen, I detest the stench of corruption. As a journalist, I know corruption makes for very fertile investigative reporting. And as a student of history, I have learned that corruption often lays waste to the powerful.
That is why I am stunned by what is taking place today. Over the course of my life, I have never seen a level of corruption in the United States equal to that emanating from the Trump Administration. It is the ultimate threat to effective governance. It is morally repugnant and a repudiation of the very ideals of our democracy. It is the rot of power for sale.
Of all the current dangers to the norms of our democracy, and there are many, I worry most that we will become a nation that shrugs off corruption as business as usual. This is not to say that we haven’t had corruption in the past. But one thing that has marked this country from others is that, especially at the highest levels of government, our corruption (and our tolerance for it) has been comparatively very low.
The corruption that has already been proven is staggering. But with the latest revelations around slush funds, the money passing through Trump properties, this bizarre story of a “dirty ops” campaign against Obama Administration officials, the daily Pruitt perfidy (and so, so, so much more) one has a sense that we are seeing but the tip of the corruption iceberg. I have long felt that one reason why our global competitors and adversaries like China and Russia would falter was that the corruption that pulsates through their political systems is ultimately destabilizing. And now we are following down that same dangerous path.
I hear many on air and online invoke President Trump’s promise to “drain the swamp” to mark his rank hypocrisy. But I suggest that those who care about this issue drop the “swamp” metaphor as a reference. It is too cute, too passive, and too esoteric for what is going on. This is about hardworking, law-abiding Americans being played for suckers. This is about the very idea of honest government becoming just another partisan divide. There are already many worrisome signs that this mindset is seeping into the candidacies of those seeking lower office.
In the end, however, I trust the American people will not sit idly by and allow the fleecing of their country to take place without a reckoning at the ballot box, and likely in the halls of justice.
https://www.newsandguts.com/dan-rather-seeing-tip-corruption-iceberg/
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dirtbag
climber
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May 13, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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Hey, he’s pissing off liberals, which is the real measure of making America great again.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 13, 2018 - 10:22am PT
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When all is said and done DOJ should hand Trump the bill to cover the cost of the investigation...The republicans spent 70 mill to discover clinton lied about having an affair...How many has Trump had and how much has he spent to try and cover them up...?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 13, 2018 - 10:31am PT
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This is how Trump makes America Great Again, by making America First:
Trump pledges to help Chinese phonemaker, declaring ‘too many jobs in China lost’
The president's conciliatory comment comes weeks after the Commerce Department penalized ZTE for violating a settlement with the U.S. government over illegal shipments to Iran and North Korea. As a result, the Trump administration barred U.S. firms for seven years from exporting parts to the company.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 13, 2018 - 10:42am PT
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Mueller is NOT taking his time. He is being deliberate, thorough, and doesn't miss a chance for the criminals to indict themselves.
For comparison, the only real one that we have, look at the timeline for Watergate:
July 1, 1971: David Young and Egil “Bud” Krogh write a memo suggesting the formation of what later became called the "White House Plumbers" in response to the leak of the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg.
August 21, 1971: Nixon's Enemies List is started by White House aides (though Nixon himself may not have been aware of it); to "use the available federal machinery to screw our political enemies."
September 3, 1971: "White House Plumbers" E. Howard Hunt, G. Gordon Liddy, and others break into the offices of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist Lewis Fielding looking for material that might discredit Ellsberg, under the direction of John Ehrlichman or his staff within the White House. This was the Plumbers' first major operation.[2]
By early 1972, the Plumbers, at this stage assigned to the Committee to Re-Elect the President (CRP), had become frustrated at the lack of additional assignments they were being asked to perform, and that any plans and proposals they suggested were being rejected by CRP. Liddy and Hunt took their complaints to the White House – most likely to Charles Colson – and requested that the White House start putting pressure on CRP to assign them new operations. It is likely that both Colson and White House Chief of Staff H.R. Haldeman did so, starting the train of events that led to the Watergate break-ins a few months later. This narrative was confirmed in the famous "Cancer on the Presidency" conversation between Nixon and White House Counsel John Dean on March 21, 1973.[3]
May 2, 1972: J. Edgar Hoover dies; L. Patrick Gray is appointed acting FBI director.[4]
June 17, 1972: The plumbers are arrested at 2:30 a.m. in the process of burglarizing and planting surveillance bugs in the Democratic National Committee offices at the Watergate Building Complex.
June 20, 1972: Reportedly based on a tip from Deep Throat (associate director of the FBI, Mark Felt), Bob Woodward reports in the Washington Post that one of the burglars had E. Howard Hunt in his address book and possessed checks signed by Hunt, and that Hunt was connected to Charles Colson.
June 23, 1972: In the Oval Office, H.R. Haldeman recommends to President Nixon that they attempt to shut down the FBI investigation of the Watergate break-in, by having CIA Director Richard Helms and Deputy Director Vernon A. Walters tell acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray to, "Stay the hell out of this". Haldeman expects Gray will then seek and take advice from Deputy FBI Director Mark Felt, and Felt will obey direction from the White House out of ambition. Nixon agrees and gives the order. [5] The conversation is recorded.
September 15, 1972: Hunt, Liddy, and the Watergate burglars are indicted by a federal grand jury.
November 7, 1972: Nixon re-elected, defeating George McGovern with the largest plurality of votes in American history.
January 8, 1973: Five defendants plead guilty as the burglary trial begins. Liddy and James W. McCord Jr. are convicted after the trial.
January 20, 1973: Nixon is inaugurated for his second term.
February 28, 1973: Confirmation hearings begin for confirming L. Patrick Gray as permanent Director of the FBI. During these hearings, Gray reveals that he had complied with an order from John Dean to provide daily updates on the Watergate investigation, and also that Dean had "probably lied" to FBI investigators.
March 17, 1973: Watergate burglar McCord writes a letter to Judge John Sirica, claiming that some of his testimony was perjured under pressure and that the burglary was not a CIA operation, but had involved other government officials, thereby leading the investigation to the White House.
April 6, 1973: White House counsel John Dean begins cooperating with federal Watergate prosecutors.
April 27, 1973: L. Patrick Gray resigns after it comes to light that he destroyed files from E. Howard Hunt's safe. William Ruckelshaus is appointed as his replacement.
April 30, 1973: Senior White House administration officials Ehrlichman, Haldeman, and Richard Kleindienst resign, and John Dean is fired.
May 17, 1973: The Senate Watergate Committee begins its nationally televised hearings.
May 19, 1973: Independent special prosecutor Archibald Cox appointed to oversee investigation into possible presidential impropriety.
June 3, 1973: John Dean tells Watergate investigators that he has discussed the cover-up with Nixon at least 35 times.
July 13, 1973: Alexander Butterfield, former presidential appointments secretary, reveals that all conversations and telephone calls in Nixon’s office have been taped since 1971.
July 18, 1973: Nixon orders White House taping systems disconnected.
July 23, 1973: Nixon refuses to turn over presidential tapes to Senate Watergate Committee or the special prosecutor.
Vice President replaced:
October 10, 1973: Spiro Agnew resigns as Vice President of the United States due to corruption while he was the governor of Maryland.
October 12, 1973: Gerald Ford is nominated as Vice President under the 25th Amendment.
October 20, 1973: "Saturday Night Massacre" - Nixon orders Elliot Richardson and Ruckelshaus to fire special prosecutor Cox. They both refuse to comply and resign. Robert Bork considers resigning but carries out the order.
November 1, 1973: Leon Jaworski is appointed new special prosecutor.
November 17, 1973: Nixon delivers "I am not a crook" speech at a televised press conference at Disney World (Florida).
November 27, 1973: the Senate votes 92 to 3 to confirm Ford as Vice President.
December 6, 1973: the House votes 387 to 35 to confirm Ford as Vice President, and he takes the oath of office an hour after the vote.
January 28, 1974: Nixon campaign aide Herbert Porter pleads guilty to perjury.
February 25, 1974: Nixon personal counsel Herbert Kalmbach pleads guilty to two charges of illegal campaign activities.
March 1, 1974: In an indictment against seven former presidential aides, delivered to Judge Sirica together with a sealed briefcase intended for the House Committee on the Judiciary, Nixon is named as an unindicted co-conspirator.
March 4, 1974: the "Watergate Seven" (Mitchell, Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Colson, Gordon C. Strachan, Robert Mardian, and Kenneth Parkinson) are formally indicted.
March 18, 1974: Judge Sirica orders the grand jury's sealed report to be sent to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
April 5, 1974: Dwight Chapin convicted of lying to a grand jury.
April 7, 1974: Ed Reinecke, Republican lieutenant governor of California, indicted on three charges of perjury before the Senate committee.
April 16, 1974: Special Prosecutor Jaworski issues a subpoena for 64 White House tapes.
April 30, 1974: White House releases edited transcripts of the Nixon tapes, but the House Judiciary Committee insists the actual tapes must be turned over.
May 9, 1974: Impeachment hearings begin before the House Judiciary Committee.
June 15, 1974: Woodward and Bernstein's book All the President's Men is published by Simon & Schuster (ISBN 0-671-21781-X).
July 24, 1974: United States v. Nixon decided: Nixon is ordered to give up tapes to investigators.
Congress moves to impeach Nixon.
July 27 to July 30, 1974: House Judiciary Committee passes Articles of Impeachment.
Early August 1974: A previously unknown tape from June 23, 1972 (recorded a few days after the break-in) documenting Nixon and Haldeman formulating a plan to block investigations is released. This recording later became known as the "Smoking Gun".
Key Republican Senators tell Nixon that enough votes exist to convict him.
August 8, 1974: Nixon delivers his resignation speech in front of a nationally televised audience.
August 9, 1974: Nixon resigns from office. Gerald Ford becomes president.
September 8, 1974: President Ford ends the investigations by granting Nixon a pardon.
October 17, 1974: Ford testifies before Congress on the pardon, the first sitting president to testify before Congress since President Lincoln.
November 7, 1974: 94th Congress elected: Democratic Party picks up 5 Senate seats and 49 House seats. Many of the freshman congressmen are very young; the media dubs them "Watergate Babies".
December 31, 1974: As a result of Nixon administration abuses of privacy, Privacy Act of 1974 passes into law. Ford is persuaded to veto the bill by Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld; Congress overrides Ford's veto. (Note that the newly elected Congress had not taken office yet, this Congress was still the 93rd Congress.)
January 1, 1975: John N. Mitchell, John Ehrlichman and H. R. Haldeman convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury.
July 27, 1975: Church Committee, chaired by Frank Church, commences to investigate foreign and domestic intelligence-gathering activities.
So it took FOUR YEARS to move from the first criminal act to beginning impeachment hearings! We are, what?, ONE YEAR into this mess, and there was no internet back then.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 13, 2018 - 10:47am PT
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May 5th 1976...Ford drives golf ball off spectators forehead sending spectator to ER room...May 6th , 1976...Xrays show Ford has an extra bone in his head...
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 13, 2018 - 11:04am PT
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"Pressing a political view from the Oscar stage, declaring a conservative campus speaker unacceptable, flatly categorizing huge segments of the country as misguided — these reveal a tremendous intellectual and moral self-confidence that smacks of superiority. It’s one thing to police your own language and a very different one to police other people’s. The former can set an example. The latter is domineering."
"Even if liberals think their opponents are backward, they don’t have to gratuitously drive people away, including voters who cast ballots once or even twice for Mr. Obama before supporting Mr. Trump in 2016." NYT
It's entertaining to read this thread and see what the author is describing.
;>)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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Copious complex and convoluted criminal cases (Cohen, conspiracy, collusion, cash) coexist.
Demystifying dastardly deeds done by devious dipshits who have despoiled domestic denizens with degenerate and depraved disregard for democracy takes time.
Mueller dude demands endungeonment.
It's as simple as that.
The time for plausible deniability is long gone. The factual evidence was sufficient months ago. Today, it is overwhelming. Each week brings forth a new facet of a fascinating and historical Tale of Pure Sordidness.
The very concept of reality itself has become polarized: you are either attuned to reality, or you are delusional.
As the noose tightens, and the petri dish fills to capacity, the conditions necessary for the reappearance of an anti-Christ become more and more saturated.
NostraThomas, 1999
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 13, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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The very concept of reality itself has become polarized: you are either attuned to reality, or you are delusional
Keep up the good work!
Here's a political home for some of you:
Democratic Socialists of America
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
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^^^^^ Man, those Watergate investigaters clearly weren’t concerned about job security!
What were they thinking?
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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May 13, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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The guy is either a pathological narcissist or has histrionic personality disorder. Or both. No, I'm not a psychologist, but look it up.
And he's a potential and almost realized autocrat. It is going to be difficult for the US to recover from him and the party-before-state Republicans. This is a far more dangerous situation than the McCarthy era. He's got to be taken down, soon.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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May 13, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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And while you are at it, look up the definition of fascism.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 13, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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The guy is either a pathological narcissist or has histrionic personality disorder. Or both
Wayne, the psychiatric association has recently changed their rules to now allow publicly
diagnosing high profile citizens
More than 60,000 mental health professionals have signed John’s petition, which states:
*The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump
“We, the undersigned mental health professionals, believe in our professional judgment that Donald Trump manifests a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States. And we respectfully request he be removed from office, according to article 4 of the 25th amendment to the Constitution, which states that the president will be replaced if he is ‘unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.’”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-time-cure/201709/the-dangerous-case-donald-trump
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2018 - 10:21pm PT
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why would tRump agree to play president when he knows he will be impeached when all he gets out of it is attention and all his family gets is the opportunity to get rich off shady deals?
Your question presupposes that Trump is not insane, and has some sort of logical endgame in mind.
Money addicts, like drug addicts, do not behave rationally, or logically. They fixate on appeasement of a mental defect. Their behavior is focused, and single-minded: all they want is their fix.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 14, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 14, 2018 - 10:02am PT
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Wade,
If you're going to post that photo of Trump superimposed onto Adolf Hitler, at least photoshop out the iron cross on the left chest. Trump couldn't have earned that or any other military medal since he seems to lack any form of courage (physical or mental) and also avoided the draft.
And BTW, dingleberry Trump is much more like a different German leader, Kaiser Wilhelm II. That Kaiser was also an entitled, snowflake, egomaniac, hypocrite. A bumbling, amoral fool in many, many ways. Just like our current dear leader.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 14, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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Wade icey cracks me the f*#k up....
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 14, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
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If you're going to post that photo of Trump superimposed onto Adolf Hitler, at least photoshop out the iron cross on the left chest. Trump couldn't have earned that or any other military medal since he seems to lack any form of courage (physical or mental) and also avoided the draft.
When Emperor Trump award himself an iron cross, than Emperor Trump has an iron cross.
What don't you get?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 14, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
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When Emperor Trump award himself an iron cross, than Emperor Trump has an iron cross.
What don't you get?
I don't disagree. But I don't think Emperor/Sergeant Bone Spurs made any such award. But Wade may have, and I doubt he meant to ;)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 14, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
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Trump earned the medal for avoiding venereal diseases when his generation was fighting in Vietnam. Trumps own words
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 14, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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Trump wasn't in Viet Nam?
I guess no Vietnamese ever called him an idiot.
This guy could have blown him away and nobody would have cared or even noticed.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 14, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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For whatever our wisdom and expertise may be worth, surely we are obligated to share it.
And it's worth about what a forum-posting pundit's is worth: less than a rat's left testicle. The mind "sciences" are a mess and always have been. Don't forget that it wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was in the DSM as a mental illness. This "science" LITERALLY makes it up as it goes along.
Worse, every single opinion in America today has become politicized. I'm afraid that you guys don't have any idea what a dangerous game you're playing at this point.
If the tactics you're employing prevail, the entire bar gets moved, and election-nullification becomes the norm. EVERY person can be "evaluated" by "professionals" as unfit, and that's why any authority granted to the mind "sciences" is deeply suspect. Politicize that "science," and you literally have the foundation for everything Orwell warned about in 1984.
Look, rant and wring your hands all you want for a couple more years. Then put up a decent candidate and see if you can keep reelection from happening.
But meanwhile have the good grace to behave like you expected the right to behave "when" Hillary won: just accept the election result.
If Hillary had won and the right was ranting as you now are, comparing Hillary to some notorious historical figure and predicting the demise of society itself, you'd have entire threads devoted to DEMANDING that they shut up and quit "hating" on Hillary.
Basically any idea you don't agree with is instantly labeled as "hate speech."
You predicted that the stock market would implode post-election. It didn't and it's higher than ever.
You predicted that Trump would ere-this have shut down the free press. He didn't.
You predicted executive orders that never came to pass.
You predicted that Trump would be impeached before 100 days. He wasn't.
You predicted that Trump would bungle us into another Korean war and that his "bluster" would force NK into the use of nuclear weapons. Trump backed them down.
And it goes on and on and on! I could literally write out 100 things you've predicted on these politard threads that have spectacularly not come true or played out as predicted. But still you froth and rant.
Fine. You have your echo chambers, and most of us that don't agree with you just check in now and then to chuckle. I haven't posted on this thread for a long time.
But with this movement toward "professional" election-nullification, I've gotta post my one little shot in the dark in the hopes that it can move at least one lurker back from the brink.
Consider carefully: From your predictions of the election outcome to your predictions about Trump's results in office, your batting average is absolutely dismal.
So, rather than to crow about the fact that a pile of (left wing) social "scientists" are now attempting to remote-diagnose Trump, you might ratchet back the rhetoric a bit and recognize what a dangerous path that really is!
EVERY sword you swing against Trump today is one that will lop YOUR head off on the back-swing when your candidate wins an election. Every new tactic changes the bar and further sullies what an "election" even means.
Instead of working yourselves into a froth about comparing Trump to Hitler, perhaps calm down a bit and recognize that pretty much nothing has played out according to your analysis, and that this entire thread has been so hate-filled that you pretty much have the whole echo-chamber to yourselves.
People like me that would even TRY to suggest an alternative perspective to your assessments are so viciously vilified and dog-piled that we immediately just shake our heads and leave you to your own devices. I'm confident that this will be the result of my current post.
But when your devices include "professional" election-nullification, you've gone way beyond the pale. Meanwhile, as if the professional reputation of the mind "sciences" could get any more tarnished, this petition pretty well lets the last vestiges of professional credibility dribble away.
You like to just dismiss all Trump voters as stupid, racist, haters. But you should be students of the subtleties of how he won, because then you might actually learn something that would enable you to put up a future candidate worth voting for.
I for one don't vote on party lines. But, you should be able to see it for yourselves, you are utterly losing the middle of this nation, and the uglier your verbiage gets, and the baser your tactics become, the more you lose the middle.
If you want to win future elections, rather than double-down on vile rhetoric, YOU should be the first to call out somebody who posts Trump-as-Hitler pictures and draws such comparisons. It's base. It's vile. It's flatly disgusting, and that's saying something, since Trump IS such a disgusting person in his own right. But if YOU can't find a balanced sense of proportion, you entirely lose people like me!
Prior to the election, I repeatedly posted on politard threads, "The more you call people like me 'stupid' and 'racist' and 'haters,' the more you publicly determine that you WILL NOT engage in civil dialog. You're losing people like me."
I'll say it again. If you want to see the Democratic party emerge from its present bumbling mess, first clean up the vast corruption in your own party. Then, try civil dialog rather than epithets and dirty tactics.
People like me WANT a GOOD alternative to the swill put out by the Republican party. But if you think that forcing the likes of HILLARY down our throats, politicizing the FBI and IRS, and then engaging in your grotesque verbiage and tactics count as a "good alternative," well, I guess you'll have to lose more elections to learn your lesson. People like me will keep holding our noses and voting ANTI what you're dishing out.
If you're interested in a more balanced assessment of "Duty to Warn," here's a well-written article that cites a number of other mind scientists that do not agree with this present tactic:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/diagnosing-trump-is-more-about-politics-than-mental-health/
I'll quote the summary statement of Susan Molchan, a psychiatrist who spent much of her career at the National Institutes of Health: "It's making an assumption and trying to attach a stigma, and it's not fair to people who are clearly mentally ill and aren't bad."
And: "A diagnosis is good for treatment and for insurance reimbursement — without a diagnosis you can't get your psychological or psychiatric visits covered — but it's not very good for understanding people in their depth and complexity."
As long as you personally evidence that you don't give a rip about "understanding people in their depth and complexity," preferring instead to "diagnose" and vilify rather than dialog, you're going to have an increasingly hard time moving people from the middle toward your "side" in any given election. Just dog-piling people that don't agree with you and calling them filthy epithets doesn't change minds.
And this echo chamber has gotten unusually ugly, which is really saying something for politard threads!
Carry on.
(BTW, I won't be checking back to see responses to this post; I'm pretty certain what they will be. So, don't be surprised (or count it as a minor triumph) when I don't respond to the typical vile epithets.)
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nah000
climber
now/here
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May 14, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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+1 fear: thanks for the lulz
+1 mb1: trump owes all of the folks, looking to preemptively remove him from office by some other means than coming up with the tried and true combo of compelling policy meets inspirational pitch person, a personally signed gold leafed thank you card...
everytime a left winger focuses their energy on anything other than policy and a trump alternative, first a kitten dies... and then we get one granular step closer to six more years of trump and the almost entirely impotent band of spineless republicans that he is currently leading...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 14, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
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The dissonance.... ... ... ...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 14, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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does anybody actually read the Walls Of Text Madbolter posts? I sure don't
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 14, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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It is time off your life,really......lol
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 14, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
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I took the Evelyn Wood speed eating course and read every one of Mads walls of Tex....
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 14, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
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Lotta words but +1 Madbolter
We have to think not just about the “ends,” but what the “means” means for society.
I hope as much as the next bleeding heart liberal that Trump (and Pruitt, and ....) are held accountable in a court of law. I’m for prosecuting Democrat criminals too. But whatever societal angst we have should be focused not on vengeance against Trump (who is a symptom of a broken system), but on fixing the system
Election finance reform, media transparency, redistricting rules, voting access and integrity, enforcement and accountability for provable lies...the foundations of a healthy democracy are badly damaged in our country but they can be fixed. If we keep ignoring them, we should expect more of the same of Trump’s ilk, more us/them drama while the rich/poor divide grows and we squander rights that people have shed blood for hundreds of years to provide us with.
Our country is in deep need of introspection, and I don’t see it happening yet. It is hard enough for one person to make major strides in emotional growth, and pretty daunting to consider how we can do it together as a society. It will only come about through rational dialog and finding common ground that taps into our shared emotional needs and desires. It won’t happen from a witch hunt against Trump (even if he is a despicable human being by many of our judgments).
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 15, 2018 - 05:59am PT
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Trump keeps another campaign promise, saving Chinese jobs in exchange for a half billion dollar investment in TrumpCo. Swamp much?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 15, 2018 - 06:33am PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
May 14, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
does anybody actually read the Walls Of Text Madbolter posts? I sure don't
Here's a short recap, old man.
Everybody thought Trump was a joke, who would screw everything up and be gone in short order. Turns out he's doing an excellent job of keeping his campaign promises. You know.... the promises that attracted voters.
MB1's bigger point goes to the mindset/behavior of the left. It's become overrun with intolerant myopic haters. They exemplify the negative characteristics they accuse Trump supporters of possessing.
There's little room for civil discourse. It's about shutting down the other guy.
"We have met the enemy..."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 15, 2018 - 06:47am PT
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Ed...thanks for editing the wall...Mexico didn't pay bolter...? ...trump hasn't kept his promise of draining the swamp ( he's still treading swamp water ) but his voters don't care as long as hillary isn't prez...
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 15, 2018 - 07:03am PT
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Madbolter, shoveling piles and piles of didactic verbage to mask your bullshit reasoning doesn't fool anyone here. (Edit- I guess it does)
To a rational person, only one point resonates- You are forever on record for defending Trump.
From and academic standpoint, let's you and I revisit this topic in about a year.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 15, 2018 - 07:44am PT
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...to a rational person, only one point resonates- You are forever on record for defending Trump.
Actually, I don't think any reasonable mind could interpret Madbolter's comments as defending Trump (once that reasonable mind was able to labor through his whole novel that is).
I think he's arguing for less dogmatic thinking and more analyzing for oneself. For an attempt at objective fairness.
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2018 - 07:45am PT
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Yep, that's right ^^^^
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 15, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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Actually, I don't think any reasonable mind could interpret Madbolter's comments as defending Trump (once that reasonable mind was able to labor through his whole novel that is).
I think he's arguing for less dogmatic thinking and more analyzing for oneself. For an attempt at objective fairness.
It's the things he has written in the past that lead me to believe he supports trump.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 15, 2018 - 08:18am PT
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Madbolter-Basically any idea you don't agree with is instantly labeled as "hate speech." There it is in one sentence.
Classic MadBolter equivocation, and a common chord struck by those who wish to brand Trump as and his supporters as victims of left-wing intolerance.
Almost every renowned presidential historian, nonpartisan National Security expert and Constitutional law scholar agree that Trump is attempting to tear apart our institutions and subvert the Constitution. This goes well beyond your cavalier label of political disagreement.
Again, let's see where this is in one year.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 15, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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I think he's arguing for less dogmatic thinking and more analyzing for oneself. For an attempt at objective fairness.
A civil and reasonable response. But good luck convincing liberals here. They quite firmly believe "you're either with us. . . or against us."
Almost every renowned presidential historian, nonpartisan National Security expert and Constitutional law scholar agree that Trump is attempting to tear apart our institutions and subvert the Constitution.
Oh geeeezzz, now you're just making things up. Kinda like when you claimed you would pay your work crews a living wage, right?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 15, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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...but good luck convincing liberals here. They quite firmly believe 'you're either with us. . . or against us.'
See, the thing is, viewed from the center, you could just as easily have typed "conservatives" where you typed "liberals."
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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May 15, 2018 - 08:40am PT
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A civil and reasonable response. But good luck convincing liberals here. They quite firmly believe "you're either with us. . . or against us."
And, the right was/is objective about?
Hilary? Gore? Climate?.....
"Liberals"?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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May 15, 2018 - 09:36am PT
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does anybody actually read the Walls Of Text Madbolter posts? I sure don't
He does use big-boy words, that might be the genesis of your consternation.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 15, 2018 - 09:40am PT
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See, the thing is, viewed from the center, you could just as easily have typed "conservatives" where you typed "liberals."
And not even from the center but from predominantly an ethical standpoint.
I'm a lifelong liberal, Democrat and have railed often against Hillary and her cadre of cynical, lying operatives. And yes, I got plenty of sh#t from the partisans- we know who they are.
Just have the balls to call out one of your own...
Lituya- my employees are free to seek employment elsewhere but they just seem to stick around for years- wonder why?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 15, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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Again, let's see where this is in one year.
OK... let’s see what’s going on in a year.
For some really fun reading.... look back one year and see what the ST boys and girls were predicting.
Try it.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 15, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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Great, let's keep it civil so the thread doesn't get axed and revisit in May, 019.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 15, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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This is one of the more disgusting actions of the administration, taking children from their parents.
I thought the Repugs liked to trumpet that they were the party of "family values". What family value is served by taking children from parents?
It is for the express purpose of punishing these innocent (in the sense of criminality) children without due process.
I can't speak for others, but my opinion of people who deliberately inflict harm upon children are bound for a special sort of Hell.
I also find it ironic that by this action, they embrace the Elián González case of years ago, when they were so against it at the time.
Trump administration preparing to shelter migrant children on military bases
The proposal marks the latest sign that the government is moving forward with plans to split up families who cross the border illegally.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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This is one of the more disgusting actions of the administration, taking children from their parents.
This is consistent with Trump's idea of the Art of the Deal: find any seam, or point of weakness, and attack it with a vengeance. Roy Cohn, Trump's fixer back in the 1980s, taught him to use blackmail and extortion-type tactics when dealing with people. Outrageous threats are also part of Trump's self-styled artistry; nobody can every tell if he's serious, or if he's seriously insane.
Trump is like a gangster, threatening to take children hostage to coerce compliance. Loan sharks and drug dealers do the same thing when they don't get paid. No court would ever uphold the new border enforcement plan, but it doesn't matter. All Trump cares about is terrorizing anybody who is considering crossing the border.
Trump issued a similar threat for dealing with ISIS terrorists: hunt their wives, children and families down, and kill them all.
Not surprisingly, Nixon also used an "Unhinged Madman" shtick as a negotiation ploy. Nixon and Trump were both football players, and they both believed that by head-faking an apocalyptic disaster, they could run in for the Big Win.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 15, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
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I guess trump won't be getting the Nobel Peace Prize anytime soon. Lol
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 15, 2018 - 01:33pm PT
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Here’s a pretty unconscionable one:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-protests-latest-israel-palestine-trump-blocks-un-security-council-statement-investigation-a8352006.html
What business does the USA have in blocking an independent investigation of how Israel handled the killing of 50+ and the wounding of 1200+ Palestinians during a border protest? Let’s assume there is some blame to go around, that the protest was designed to be threatening and eliciit a violent response for the sake of gaining world sympathy. Even so- what is wrong with a proportionate response? Tear gas and rubber bullets could not have protected the borders?
Without judging the particulars of the tragedy of which I am not well informed... How can the USA hold a policy position AGAINST doing an independent investigation? Perhaps because USA would look guilty and complicit by provoking a very sensitive power struggle by moving the embassy in a hugely symbolic gesture of taking sides?
Do most Trump supporters think it was a good idea for USA to be the as#@&%e of the world blocking an independent investigation into the very disproportionate violence and death, potential war crimes? It seems that the only people who can support such actions are the people who will never travel outside the USA and look members of the rest of the world in the eye.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 15, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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Trump, like all the other recent presidents, does what he's told. It's not Trump that's the problem, he's merely a symptom. The kleptocracy is the problem.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 15, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
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The Obama Legacy Deserves to Be Destroyed
It’s strange that a president who had such a transformative effect on our national discourse will leave such a negligible policy legacy.
But Barack Obama, whose imperial term changed the way Americans interact and in some ways paved the way for the Trump presidency, is now watching his much-celebrated and mythologized two-term legacy be systematically demolished. This, in many ways, tells us that American governance still works.
When President Donald Trump announced that the United States would withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal, he was able to do so without much difficulty because the agreement hinged on presidential fiat rather than national consensus. Obama’s appeasement of Iran was only one in a string of unilateral norm-busting projects that deserve to be dismantled...
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/05/11/the-obama-legacy-deserves-to-be-destroyed/
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 15, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
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When will the conservative intellectual discourse start
All I've read is opinionated BS so far
The Iran deal??
Trump violated it for one reason, Russia wants us to.
So if you conservatives agree that you are in bed with Russia, I guess I can see why you agree with Trump and his dismantling of Obama's legacy
Trump has created mostly just chaos and insecurity, more Plusses for Russia
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 15, 2018 - 02:44pm PT
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so now Edward is excited that he found someone on a "conservative" web site who wrote an opinion piece that states the obvious
yes Edward, Donald Trump hates President Obama and lead the "birther" lies
he has used "executive orders" to overturn anything of President Obama's that he can
this has been obvious to everyone for well over a year now
and this is somehow news to you? so exciting you just had to tell someone else, whoopee!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 15, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
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So, don't call him "moron" or "idiot;" call him what he is: a conniving, corrupt con man, a dangerous, divisive demagogue -- and, most sobering of all, the man who carried 30 states in the last election, and may well do it again if Democrats don't focus their fire more effectively.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 15, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
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Sorry if this is a repeat post. Trump supports jobs in China for ZTE and within days of that Chinese government gives $500,000,000.00 loans to a project that will personally enrich Donald Trump.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-china-zte_us_5af9f701e4b0200bcab7fa66
So how much money is enough for Trump to stash outside USA to be able to keep running from USA law enforcement when he is convicted? Or more likely, how much is enough to bribe/threaten the prosecutors and judges and their management chain and pay for the next-generation of Cambridge Analytica to flood Facebook and Twitter and the interwebs to change our perception of the facts?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 15, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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Odds on the Kleptocracy?
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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Oh for fux sakes it is already known that Bin Laden will be next US POTUS.
He will be revived from the C.I.A crypt and be remade into a new American winner masqueraded as a dark horse from out of the blue.
St00pid Americans will be shocked once again with a "WTF just happened!!!!!" .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 15, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
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Only fools predict the weather and elections...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 15, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
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Prediction: Trump wins a fake Nobel Peace prize
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 15, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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That's fake news, Jon Beck!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 15, 2018 - 08:41pm PT
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Cross your fingers that Biden is still with us in a couple of years. He's up around my age.
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WBraun
climber
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May 15, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
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Meh .... Biden is a washed up clown.
Putin will run America in 2020 by remote control .......
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 15, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2018 - 11:22pm PT
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When President Donald Trump announced that the United States would withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal, he was able to do so without much difficulty because the agreement hinged on presidential fiat rather than national consensus.
You just made the Trump haters' argument for them.
The overwhelming national consensus was for the U.S. to stay with the Iran nuclear deal. It would have given us ten years' time, without an Iranian nuclear program, for further negotiations toward a more permanent agreement. Instead, Trump ignored the will of 2/3 of the American people, and dumped the agreement without having any other deal, or any other plan, in place.
The overwhelming international consensus was also for the U.S. to remain with the agreement, and not reject it. Now, those other nations are working to continue the deal with Iran, without America's involvement or influence.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/08/politics/poll-iran-agreement/index.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/10/12/poll-most-americans-support-the-2015-iran-nuclear-deal-infographic/#150315387d93
http://www.euronews.com/2018/05/07/where-do-countries-stand-on-the-iran-nuclear-deal-
People hate trump because he continually does the exact opposite of what the majority of Americans want. Usually, he does things to benefit the special interests he spoke out against during his campaign, which was ostensibly a major reason people voted for him. And, his promises to help his Middle American voter have been forgotten, or diametrically violated to the benefit of rich people. Trump's former supporters are onto his conman bait-and-switch game, and the Republicans are going to get severely hurt in November.
Trump's voter base is rapidly deserting him because he gave big tax breaks to rich people, and only peanuts to them. He promised to get rid of Obamacare, and give everybody health care with "something so much better". Instead, he simply eliminated health care for tens of thousands of people who voted for him. Trump had people chanting, "Drain The Swamp" at his campaign rallies, then he installed one of the most corrupt and "swampy" administrations since the days of the Teapot Dome Scandal. Trump says that "nobody is tougher on Russia than I am", but ever week there is more and more evidence that his lawyers, his associates, his business partners, his campaign staff, and his administration officials have close ties to Russian oligarchs, and thus, to Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin.
The law, the facts and time are not on Trump's side. He is twisting and gyrating randomly, lashing out here, spewing insane lies there. Trump's dwindling crowd of supporters are cheering his frenetic last moves, as if that will somehow cure his presidency of its malignant, metastasized and terminal cancer.
Trump has continually attempted to cover-up and/or derail investigations surrounding himself and his associates. It should not surprise anyone that he is now doing the same thing, over in Israel, because he cavalierly moved the embassy to Jerusalem, and now there are protests and riots and dead people.
Jared Kushner's family has close ties to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. When Netanyahu has come to New York, he has stayed at the Kushner family residence. The Kushner family has contributed financially to Netanyahu's political career. Jared Kushner knows Netanyahu personally, and has acted on behalf of the White House during diplomatic interchanges with him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/jared-kushner-israel.html
The Trump administration has no business being involved in Israeli politics. There is no pretense of America being an objective broker of peace. Jared Kushner is an active proponent of a unilateral Israeli agenda. Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was just the beginning.
Ari Melber, an MSNBC newscaster, used the phrase,
. . . . Guiliani's ongoing, unorthodox defense of Trump . . . .
Rudy Guiliani's "Unorthodox Defense" relies on "Alternative Facts" conjured by a "Senile Septuagenarian".
Robert Mueller and Michael Avenatti are getting ready to play 110 mph Major League hard ball.
Rudy Giuliani is serenely bumbling along towards first base, pushing a shuffleboard puck with his stick, oblivious that he's playing the wrong game, and unaware that the real game hasn't even started yet.
Trump is so insane, he has given Giuliani a sinecure position on his legal team, and doesn't know, or doesn't care, that Giuliani's ongoing, televised blunders are of the greatest legal and tactical benefit to the opposing counsel.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 16, 2018 - 03:03am PT
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More of the Steele dossier has been proven true, the Qatar/Russian connection is another layer of corruption. The ZTE stuff is indefensible.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 16, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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As if we needed any more evidence that Donald Trump is insane, look at this:
https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Trump-s-controversial-ZTE-order-came-days-after-12917519.php
A Trump-branded golf course, resort and amusement park project in Indonesia received $500 from the Chinese government, and at least another $500 million from Chinese banks.
Three days later, Trump ordered removal of domestic bans on Chinese-made ZTE phones. He also suggested that ZTE could have access to U.S.-made computer and electronics components that had previously been off-limits. In a tweet, Trump said he wanted to increase jobs at the Chinese factory.
"You can't make this stuff up," Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont tweeted Monday. "Trump promised over and over again that he would bring back American jobs that have been outsourced to China. Instead of working to bring back outsourced jobs, he is now pledging to help create jobs in China."
Federal agencies have said the ZTE phones pose security risks because they can be used to spy on users. The Pentagon banned ZTE phones from being sold at military bases, and considered a complete ban on the devices. ZTE says that it would be impossible for the Chinese government to make them install backdoor surveillance features into the phones.
Trump has not divested himself from the Trump Organization, so the direct payments from China to his resort project is a clear, blatant and serious violation of the Constitution's emoluments clause, which forbids the President from receiving any sort of gift or payment from a foreign nation.
If the payments were made in exchange for Trump lifting the sanctions, he could be additionally prosecuted for bribery.
The next thing we can expect to see in the news is that at least some of the millions of dollars that Michael Cohen received, as bribes from AT&T, Novartis, Columbus Nova and other corporations, was eventually paid directly to Trump.
Trump is like an overgrown Augustus Gloop who can't stop eating all the candy, even when his continued bad behavior is leading directly to his impending doom.
Ironically, Trump's physical appearance is similar to that of an Oompa-Loompa.
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Trump
climber
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May 16, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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Trump is insane for getting himself democratically elected president by ‘mericans and then using his political clout to flout the emoluments clause, much to his advantage.
While we righteous geniuses fret about it on the internet and launch politically damaging bombshells in the form of criticisms of his appearance to the other 6 people paying attention.
Alrighty then. It’s something to do I guess. It really tweaks me when that doody-headed president calls other people names.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 16, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
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Avenatti's threats were not well-received by journalists, including FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver who said, "Avenatti seems quite Trumpian in both loving the media attention and acting quite contemptuously toward the free press."
Exactly Eddie, and Trump is a laughing stock also
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 16, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
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This article:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/politics/tillerson-trump-truth/index.html
brings 2 things to the forefront for me:
1. Thank goodness there are traditionally conservative voices who have not abandoned facts and reason.
2. Our media is a big part of the problem, playing to the least common denominator. This is a meaty story with an essential truth for the preservation of democracy, and what CNN decides to headline with is "Rex Tillerson just majorly trolled Donald Trump." So do we have the least mature 14 yr olds in the class writing the news now? Or is it that they think our society is accurately reflected by the least mature 14 year olds in the class? This is just asinine and shows a lack of perspective and duty to inform or work toward the advancement/preservation of our civilization.
Perhaps it speaks more deeply to our shortcomings as a society, where we respond more to childish attacks than to substantive arguments. Perhaps this thread and other political discussions on Supertopo are a good microcosm highlighting that shortcoming.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 16, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
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Why is the left so obsessed with what Trump does with his dick?
It's front page everyday for months. Creepy to say the least.
I doubt they'd be praising his morality if he hadn't followed the footsteps of FDR, LBJ, JFK, Clinton and the like. Inconvenient truths are so ....inconvenient.
The funnest part is, he distracts his opponents with this BS and flies on unabated making long needed changes to many of the f*#ked up laws you guys voted for. I love this guy !
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 16, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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The real question{one of them} is why Trumpo is 💰 paying out hundreds of thousands of $$ for those unfortunate enough to have seen his junk not to talk !
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 16, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
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Pud, why was the right so obsessed with what Clinton did with his dick?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 16, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
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No one cares about the Porn Star affair
what we care about is the constant lying and cover up
and NOW! the millions Cohen and Trump took in as bribes
All fascists lover their fascist leader, they do such a great job leading their flock into the gates of hell
Do you care about the lies he tells?
Do you care about the documented corruption?
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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May 16, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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only someone so obsessed with his own dick would call himself pud...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 16, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
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BREAKING: Trump Has Now Been Referred For Criminal Prosecution
The Office of Government Ethics sent a letter to the Department of Justice regarding the payments, informing the DOJ that “the payment made by Mr. Cohen is required to be reported as a liability.” While Trump’s latest disclosure “meets the disclosure requirements,” that Trump previously lied about it in financial disclosures is, simply put, a felony.
Former DOJ spokesman Matt Miller says that the letter is “essentially a criminal referral” to the DOJ “for Trump making a false statement in his previous financial disclosure.”
this is essentially a criminal referral to DOJ for Trump making a false statement in his previous financial disclosure. https://t.co/4yhHnqcNmf
— Matthew Miller (@matthewamiller) May 16, 2018
The former Director of the OGE confirmed that “this is tantamount to a criminal referral” and that the “OGE has effectively reported the President…for potentially committing a crime.”
Trump also did not report the payment in 2016 which, like when he left it off of his 2017 disclosure, is a felony.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 16, 2018 - 06:35pm PT
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You guys are grasping at straws.
The fact is, your team lost and you're sore losers. Losers none the less.
I teach my children differently.
Fry, has there ever been a POTUS that didn't lie?
Trump is the best thing to happen to this country in decades.
Trump will win again in 2020 because the people that put him there outnumber the bleeding hearts that would give this great country away. Lock, stock and barrel.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 16, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
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Pud...which one of trump's lies do you believe...?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 16, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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we are now over 3000 documented lies that the US President has told since taking office
does that phrase "False Equivalence" mean anything?
if one is so desperate to defend the 3rd grader they voted for, should they be so naive to try to compare "lying"
fools believe other fools, and many many people simply will never admit they made a mistake
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 16, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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Would a climber grasp at a straw?
He is going to miss that piss boy.
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WBraun
climber
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May 16, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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You st00pid Americans should believe all Trumps lies.
That's why they are called lies.
If you don't believe they are lies then you are st00pid like rot-brained Johnny .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 16, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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As the duck continues to swim in trump's drool- filled swamp..
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 16, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
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Trump will win again in 2020 because the people that put him there outnumber the bleeding hearts that would give this great country away.
It seems the bleeding hearts outnumbered the Trumpistas by nearly 3 million.
Clinton received 65,844,610 votes, or 48.2% of the total vote.
Trump received 62,979,636 votes, or 46.1% of the total vote.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 16, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
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Cosmic...Hillary won Nevada which leads me to believe you're a closet libtard..?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 16, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
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Yes! Finally! Some honest Republican congressmen agree that Trump was elected with considerable help from the Russians!
The Senate Intelligence Committee has determined that the U.S. intelligence community was correct in assessing that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election with the aim of helping then-candidate Donald Trump, contradicting findings House Republicans reached last month.
“We see no reason to dispute the [intelligence community’s] conclusions,” the committee’s chairman, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), said Wednesday in a joint statement with its vice chair, Sen. Mark R. Warner (D-Va.), who added: “Our staff concluded that the ... conclusions were accurate and on point.The Russian effort was extensive, sophisticated, and ordered by President Putin himself for the purpose of helping Donald Trump and hurting Hillary Clinton.”
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/russia-favored-trump-in-2016-senate-panel-says-breaking-with-house-gop/ar-AAxnbP8?li=BBnbfcL
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 16, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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honest Republican congressmen
That's a stretch under the best of circumstances - more like cowardly Republican congressmen who have put trump and party before nation.
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WBraun
climber
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May 16, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election
Russia didn't do sh!t.
Brainwashed st00pid politards believe all that horsesh!t.
If really knew who did it you'd you'd be blown away.
And that's why they try to frame anyone but the real culprits.
They know who did it.
But revealing it to America and world will be the end of America to the world.
Already is anyways as the rest of the world knows Americans are just plain st00pid brainwashed fools ....
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 16, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
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WBraun!
All I can retort is:
QUACK!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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I apologize for the ALL CAPS, but at this point in time, shouting is appropriate:
IT IS HAPPENING, IN REAL-TIME, RIGHT NOW.
WE ARE WITNESS TO HISTORY BEING MADE, RIGHT NOW.
WE ARE WITNESSING THE PROOF THAT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WAS CREATED, INVIOLABLE, SO THAT IT WILL, FOR ALL TIME, WITHSTAND EVEN THE NEFARIOUS PREVARICATIONS OF A MONEY-ADDICTED MEGALOMANIAC.
DON'T YOU LOOK AWAY.
DON'T YOU FKING LOOK AWAY.
THIS IS HISTORICAL, AND YOU WILL WANT TO BE THERE, TO SAY TO BABIES WHO'RE NO LONGER BABIES: ''I WAS THERE''.....
The American republic deserves no less.
The American republic is strong, and robust.
Occasionally, a test of the strength of the republic is good.
It proves its worth to the Peoples who believe in it.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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May 17, 2018 - 04:53am PT
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Fritz:
Yes! Finally! Some honest Republican congressmen agree that Trump was elected with considerable help from the Russians!
I am still confused.
Could you please clarify the meaning of the word "considerable"?
Have they micromanaged a coup that has overthrown a legitimate US government?
Have they handpicked members of the next US government?
(This is what US did to Ukraine in February 2014. )
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 17, 2018 - 06:04am PT
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less than "considerable" willing help from the Russians does NOT nullify the assault on our Democracy
the bigger questions is why isn't every Trump voter really pissed about this by now
because they lack the courage and intelligence to even admit they were and are, wrong
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 17, 2018 - 06:48am PT
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The right wing has anointed themselves as great patriots, protectors of the Constitution when it is convenient. Yet when the sh1t hits the fan they reveal themselves as spineless self-centered traitors. Phucking sad.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 17, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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Yury! Just click on the link, Russian doode.
The Senate Intelligence Committee has determined that the U.S. intelligence community was correct in assessing that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election with the aim of helping then-candidate Donald Trump, contradicting findings House Republicans reached last month.
“We see no reason to dispute the [intelligence community’s] conclusions,” the committee’s chairman, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), said Wednesday in a joint statement with its vice chair, Sen. Mark R. Warner (D-Va.), who added: “Our staff concluded that the ... conclusions were accurate and on point.The Russian effort was extensive, sophisticated, and ordered by President Putin himself for the purpose of helping Donald Trump and hurting Hillary Clinton.”
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/russia-favored-trump-in-2016-senate-panel-says-breaking-with-house-gop/ar-AAxnbP8?li=BBnbfcL
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WBraun
climber
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May 17, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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Yury -- "This is what US did to Ukraine in February 2014."
They brought in Neo Nazis and slaughtered civilians.
That was McCain and Victoria Nuland criminal activities in Ukraine.
St00pid clueless Americans like Fritz doesn't give a sh!t about regime changes and US collusions to destroy countries by his very own country.
Fritz only cares about the horsesh!t he's daily spoon fed by his irresponsible controlled mainstream media .....
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 17, 2018 - 08:20am PT
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OK I think I've got it:
We should all try to figure out if a foreign entity may have given a little encouragement to one side or the other in a political campaign.
Then, if that side wins the election, we should all say the winner should be impeached or is illegitimate or, more generally, that the world is coming to an end.
I don't see any problem with that logic at all, or see how a foreign entity could ever abuse such power. And there's a zero percent chance that the foreign entity may have considered, like everyone else, that Hillary was almost certain to win, and so giving a little to help to Trump (which was almost certain to come to light) could not have been part of a general screw-things-up campaign.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 17, 2018 - 08:26am PT
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you sniffing Windex again blabby
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 17, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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The Russian's also hacked the DCCC
and used the dirt to influence down ticket elections
The early polls were favorable for Congress and state Dems in many Red states
but after the Russian "what ever" (voter roll tampering and FB hysteria)
there was a RED Wave of wins in every district
It looks like the whole GOP may be involved in election fraud
and then there is the Blatant disregard for the known facts about the Russian goings on before the election, they made a big deal about Hillary, but didn't report the crimes of the Trump team were involved in
Why? Our Gov. is deep state Republican, the whole FBI are Repubs
and they take their orders from the Republican leaders
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dirtbag
climber
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May 17, 2018 - 08:36am PT
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Last week, some trump defenders were saying that those of us unwilling to acknowledge trump’s impending success with North Korea were loco.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 17, 2018 - 10:36am PT
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@TheSpyBrief on Twitter says there will be something big dropping in next 24 about Cohen, Someone asked if it would "connect the Don" and TSB said "the visuals will be very,very, bad."
I posted a comment that it had occurred to me the "Russian Adoption" program restriction that got put in place as retaliation in response to the Magnitsky Act was a cover for human traffiking.
Within a minute, I got a direct message from him, and he is in a position of authority to know, that the program was a cover for a "cover for several unpleasant things."
Don't know if there is connection to DT, but come the f on....a meeting about adoptions? REALLY? Does ANYONE really think DT Jr was meeting about the welfare of legitimate adoptions of children?
Consider the Trump Panama hotel that had "issues" a short time back, which was rumored to be a traffiking stop....
Go ahead and make the remarks about me and my foolish conspiracy ideas. I wouldn't mind being wrong on that.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 17, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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"A meeting about adoptions" related to how Russia blocked USA folks from adopting Russian babies, as a retaliation to the USA sanctions in the Magnitsky act. The Magnitsky act was a reaction to the corruption and money laundering in Russia, where criminals were taking over companies and filing false tax returns to get huge refunds from the Russian government, and members of the police and government were complicit in the racket. Some of the money was traced to New York real estate... who do we know who is deeply involved in New York real estate and potentially has connections with Russians and questionable mafia-like folks?
A guy just doing his job (Magnitsky) that uncovered elements of the fraud was then blamed for it and tortured for a year in prison in Russia, then killed the day before his legally mandated release because they had nothing to hold him on. His family fought for years in court, their lawyer "fell out the window", and a lady lawyer on the criminal side of that was the same one in the Trump mtgs talking about "adoptions".
Don't forget- Preet Bharara (US Dist Attorney in New York) was on top of this and doing his job to hold folks accountable, and Trump fired him.
More detailed info from a post I researched about a year ago:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2960645&msg=3010974#msg3010974
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 17, 2018 - 11:47am PT
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Don't forget- Preet Bharara (US Dist Attorney in New York) was on top of this and doing his job to hold folks accountable, and Trump fired him.
Don't know about the accuracy of anything else in the above post, but the above sentence is highly misleading.
US Attorneys are political positions and are typically replaced en masse when a new administration comes in.
That's what Clinton, Obama, and Bush did. That's what Trump did.
So while it may technically be correct to say Trump fired Preet, in context, it means absolutely nothing, and anyone pretending it does is either ignorant or trying to deceive you.
(There was some brouhaha about Preet saying he thought he was going to be kept on and then throwing a hissy fit when he got kicked to the can with everyone else, but that doesn't change the fact that US Attorneys are replaced when a new admin comes in, with very rare exceptions.)
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 17, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
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DT said he hoped Barrara would remain with his administration, and later fired him.
While that doesn't prove he was fired over any issue in particular, it is a strange thing to do. Of course, doing strange things is not unusual for DT.....
Edit, the details in the post you don't know the accuracy of have been well reported and documented by reliable sources.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 17, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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While that doesn't prove he was fired over any issue in particular, it is a strange thing to do. Of course, doing strange things is not unusual for DT.....
Look, he was not "fired" in any normal sense of the word, he was replaced along with every other US Attorney, just like previous administrations had done, with rare exceptions. Granted it would not have been particularly strange to have kept him on either, as in some rare (but not incredibly rare) situations prior US Attorneys have been kept on.
Here's another way to say it: there was absolutely nothing strange in replacing Preet. So absolutely nothing strange happened. But keeping him on would not have been really strange either. So discussing keeping him on was not particularly strange.
This is not really that complicated. It just seems a little complicated in the same way that if you're forced to give super precise instructions on how to do something that everyone knows how to do, it could come across as a little odd.
The only thing "strange" is arguing this point rather than just admitting that Nutjob's post was highly misleading, as I wrote, and fessing up.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 17, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
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Last week, some trump defenders were saying that those of us unwilling to acknowledge trump’s impending success with North Korea were loco.
It’s painfully obvious you guys are desperately hoping peace talls fail.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 17, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
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It’s painfully obvious you guys are desperately hoping peace talls fail.
What peace talks?
So far it has been two egomaniacs all over the map oneven having talks.
And even if there were talks, who believes Rocket man or the dotard would honor them?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 17, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
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and we have already told them that a Libya style solution is the goal. Yeah right, is Trump that stupid?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 17, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
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I don't see that post as misleading at all, much less "highly misleading."
And while, yes, it is nit unusual for a president to maje changes in the administratiin, the protocol has been that peopke submit theur resignation and the president asjs them to stay on, or accepts the resignation. It's ridiculous to use the "maverick" excuse for DT's behavior.
Do you really believe other presidents publicly stated they hoped so and so would remain with their administration, and then turned around and fired them? Please, don't say "may be," unless you are able to document at least one prior president who acted in that way.
I am so sick of the daily excuses some people seem capable of accepting for Trump's behavior.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 17, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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And while, yes, it is nit unusual for a president to maje changes in the administratiin, the protocol has been that peopke submit theur resignation and the president asjs them to stay on, or accepts the resignation. It's ridiculous to use the "maverick" excuse for DT's behavior.
You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole.
I'll try it one more time:
The overwhelming majority of US Attorneys are replaced when a new administration comes in, but there are occasional exceptions.
Apparently there was some discussion about making Preet one of those occasional exceptions, but it never happened. So, regardless of what happened in those discussions, he ended up getting replaced, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER US ATTORNEY IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND JUST LIKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER US ATTORNEY IN RECENT ADMINISTRATIONS.
Therefore, suggesting that Preet's replacement is somehow evidence of wrongdoing by Trump is highly misleading, so much so that it suggests a lack of candor on the part of anyone advancing such an argument.
If you're having trouble understanding this, DO NOT reply as it's just wasting everyone's time.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 17, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
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And UNLIKE every other president, Trump personally interviewed prospective replacements in an attempt to do what? Find one that would go easy on the illegal activities of the Trump and Kushner gang
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 17, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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Don't waste time letting the Trump supporter dig deeper and deeper in the weeds to find something he can call you on
It doesn't matter
Trump wants Judges and everyone else to be complete sycophants that let him get away with all his crimes
as you can tell, blah blah doesn't care about the crime, it's all about the technicalities he can find, so in his opinion those crimes don't matter
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 17, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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I am so sick of the daily excuses some people seem capable of accepting for Trump's behavior.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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May 17, 2018 - 03:18pm PT
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damn, the world really is turning upside down: i’m in agreement with Yury, Reilly and blahblah over the course of a singlish political based page?
while i’ve always been in the camp placing money that trumperino wll likely not make it through this term... i’m starting to think that for entertainment and schadenfreude purposes it might be best for me to lose that bet and rather get to sit back listening to the chants of “lock him up” four years from now, in the case that mr trump survives his own personal beghazi111!1!1!!!11
pro tip: if the dem loyalists are looking to indict someone for their losing the last election they should focus their energy on looking for whoever thought it was a good idea to:
1. send the second most disliked presidential candidate in modern [post the start of polling for this type of thing] history to the ballot box [against the most disliked presidential candidate of all (polled) time]
2. send someone to the presidential ticket whose main strength [cause it certainly wasn’t being an inspirational speaker, or a visionary policy proponent, or cuttingly insightful analyst] was being a woman and so running on the gendered “i’m with her” tag line, in an era where many folks are/were, for better or for worse, fatigued with identity politics.
but, oh, wait... that would mean indicting most of the party faithful...
[because yes... everything else is, like bitching about the referee, spilt milk.]
the arrogance of the democratic party and its propaganda fed followers is beginning to become as mind boggling to me as the die hard trump supporters who seem to enjoy their president and his minions publicly profiteering from a position that in other times at least purported to be one of dignity and so above at least petty profiteering.
now the orange shIt gibbon stands behind stacks of blank paper in order to demonstrate all of the legal steps he’s “taking” and one side seems to be hoping that biden or sanders doesn’t keel over dead before the next election [or that maybe h. weinstein can get his shIt together in time...] while the other side seems to think hillary won and so is still chanting lock her up...
like i said: the world appears to be upside down and we truly are living in very, very strange times.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 17, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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US Attorneys are political positions and are typically replaced en masse when a new administration comes in.
I agree that my post was not worded in a neutral way. I erred on the side of brevity to hit the central point, rather than the chain of caveats to be more carefully nuanced and accurate. The chain of situations tied to that Magnitsky thing is convoluted enough already but pretty damning. Given that Bharara was in a powerful position to help or hurt Trump, Trump probed whether this could be an asset for him. Bharara leaving with all the others would have been in the normal course of business, but being held back for a bit and evaluated, and then let go after gauging his leanings on the cases he was pursuing... that shows criminal intent. While it seems like a normal and natural thing for any manipulative person used to using whatever at their disposal to get ahead, it is conduct that we should try to root out of positions of power regardless of which party occupies the office.
edit: Some reference from contemporaneous stories:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/11/politics/bharara-not-resigning/index.html
According to a source familiar with the meeting between Trump and Bharara in November 2016 at Trump Tower, the President-elect asked Bharara to stay on the job and they shook hands. Trump then directed Bharara to go out to the cameras and tell them, "I asked you to stay."
New York Sen. Chuck Schumer also said at the time that Trump called him before the meeting to ask what he thought about Bharara continuing in his role as US attorney.
"I told him I thought Preet was great, and I would be all for keeping him on the job and fully support it. ... He's been one of the best US attorneys New York has ever seen," Schumer said.
A source close to the President told CNN that Trump informed Bharara that he wanted to keep him on as a gesture to Schumer -- then the incoming minority leader -- whom Trump had previously supported for years. Since November, however, Schumer has led the Democratic opposition in the Senate, which the White House views as obstructionist and running counter to the President's agenda.
In a statement Friday, Schumer said he was "troubled" to learn of the Trump administration's request for Bharara's and other US attorneys' resignations, adding that Trump "assured him" he wanted Bharara to continue to serve as US attorney.
By asking for the immediate resignations of the remaining US attorneys before their replacements have been confirmed, "the President is interrupting ongoing cases and investigations and hindering the administration of justice," Schumer said.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
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We should all try to figure out if a foreign entity may have given a little encouragement to one side or the other in a political campaign
Federal election laws prohibit foreigners from influencing or contributing to national elections. What Mueller is investigating isn't "a little encouragement" coming from abroad. He's investigating serious election law violations, conspiracy to defraud the United States, and now, money laundering and other felonies associated with the election interference.
Denying the existence of what is occurring will not make it go away.
Here's a metaphor for Trump apologists claiming nothing is going on:
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 17, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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I will only side with Bernie or the next progressive.
That said ,Hillary would be in jail right now for half of the crap this brat has done.
Go ahead, look the other way,he is great ,America is so much better.
The dissonance is unbelievable really.
The man can’t even show his taxes,FFS.
Edit:Being a John is against the law. Is it not?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
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Progressives, the young and minorities who decided not to vote Hillary did so largely due to her being hammered by both sides. It was expected the right would push a delusionally-hyped corruption line, but it was Bernie and the progressives who, by joining the right's flaming choir and singing hallelujah along with them at all the choruses instead of campaigning on their own agenda, that elected trump.
And because of that, we have a bigoted, sociopathic traitor in the White House and have lost the Supreme Court for the next thirty years.
In 2020 it doesn't f*#king matter who the Democrats nominate for president or how - whoever it is this time, don't be a whining asshat, vote for them.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 17, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
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You bet, It is all our fault that you have just as crooked a party.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2018 - 05:08pm PT
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It doesn't f*#king matter if the dems stab all the other candidates in the eye and run Satan for president when the Supreme Court majority is on the line.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 17, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
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It will be allright,have to vote this out.
Edit; I voted for the lady.Yell at someone from Wisconson.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
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It's not alright and even if progressives won the presidency and both houses in 2020 their agenda is not going to survive endless court challenges - the progressive agenda is officially hosed.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 17, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
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Thanks.
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DanaB
climber
CO
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May 17, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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**So what is Trumpo's main thrust in his little "animal" speech?
He's telling Americans - every one of us, right, center, and left - how he really feels about us.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 17, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
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Take a listen to what a real billionaire (Bill Gates) has to say about a fake one (Trumpo).
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 17, 2018 - 07:34pm PT
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
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Well guys - keep drinking the kool-aid as you've now got rightwing control of the court to enjoy and that's two big thumbs up for a progressive agenda which is now no more than a romantic fairytale.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 17, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
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Well guys - keep drinking the kool-aid as you've now got rightwing control of the court to enjoy and that's two big thumbs up for a progressive agenda which is now no more than a romantic fairytale. Senate approval of trump's picks for the lower courts will take fifty years to rectify.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 18, 2018 - 04:18am PT
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you would figure that the back forty knuckle draggers who took a day off from noodlin catfish to vote for the chump would be the first one's to call him out on selling out the country to russian, but no, they go around with flags sticking out of their pickup trucks, telling everybody what a kick ass job this bang hole of a president is doing, these freaks must be one can short of a six pack to be that hypocritical, either that, or their self esteem is so low from livin in some broke-ass double wide and bangin their over weight meth snortin oxy shootin bridezilla vegetable woman that to have their ego bruised by admitting that they got turds for brains would just be too much.
You would figure the snowflake crybabies would quit being such whiny little pussies about the 2016 election. Trump won. Such it up, bitches! The haters have an online circlejerk ever time there's a new rumor that might be Trump's undoing. I guess it's not all their fault. The media spoon feeds this drama every day. The issue of Russian collusion has been investigated for almost two years. Ever since "the day after", we've been bombarded with "Trump colluded... Trump colluded". And here we are... 18 months since those accusations began... with still no evidence of Donald Trump colluding with Russia.
Talk about bruised ego. A.G. Hillary lost. Move on. Is that too much for turds for brains whiners to process.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 18, 2018 - 05:04am PT
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. It’s painfully obvious you guys are desperately hoping peace talls fail.
It’s painfully obvious you’re full of sh#t. There is nothing I would love to see more than lasting peace on the peninsula. But for some bizarre reason, you believe that ill-informed, narcissistic, orange dope would likely succeed where other wiser administrations had failed.
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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May 18, 2018 - 05:20am PT
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Cheeto Jesus had to ask Bill Gates what the difference between between HIV and HPV was. What a d#uche-nozzle!! And this was since he's been POTUS. Yeah, he's a "genius."
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 18, 2018 - 06:30am PT
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Nixon and McCarthy had 30% approval ratings to the bitter end.
Pick a reason; a small dick, a wife cheated, lost a house, a failed business, a gay child, Dad was an as#@&%e, poor social skills- There's no reasoning with these people- their copping mechanism is grinding an emotional axe and taking retribution through proxy.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 18, 2018 - 06:47am PT
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I forgot the most important one- reformed addict, born again residing on a sanctimonious pedestal of judgment.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 18, 2018 - 07:20am PT
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Looks like it's over for Trump
Senate Intelligence Committee finds Russian election meddling meant to help Trump, hurt Clinton,
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/16/russian-meddling-intended-to-help-trump-hurt-clinton-senate-says.html
•Senate Intelligence Committee leader Mark Warner says Russia's election meddling efforts were ordered "for the purpose of helping Donald Trump and hurting Hillary Clinton."
•GOP chairman Sen. Richard Burr said, "We see no reason to dispute the conclusions. There is no doubt that Russia undertook an unprecedented effort to interfere with our 2016 elections."
After a thorough review, our staff concluded that the [Intelligence Community Assessment] conclusions were accurate and on point," said Warner, the committee's vice chairman. "The Russian effort was extensive, sophisticated, and ordered by President [Vladimir] Putin himself for the purpose of helping Donald Trump and hurting Hillary Clinton."
are you guys going to apologize after all this is over for being such a-holes about this Trump-Russer thing?
Trump has been lying to us about f-ing everything, and you guys say we are supposed to take it as fact?
I'm sorry, that will never happen
This may be an act of treason, we know that he will not enact the lawful sanctions on Russia
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 18, 2018 - 08:27am PT
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Oh Contrarian! Sketch for the defense. Good work on the Roy Moore Campaign, Bro!!!111666
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 18, 2018 - 09:42am PT
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Is that too much for turds for brains whiners to process.
#LIBTURDS
And with two short quotes we bring the thread even lower. Are we now at the level of a second grade playground?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2018 - 09:49am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's called Follow The Leader. Every second-grader knows how to play.
When the President leads the way, down a path of childish idiocy, some people will Follow The Leader. Trump's primitive language skills and his use of disparaging nicknames should be a disinspiration for all Americans.
Another childish game that Trump likes to play, and which encourages others to do the same, is called "I Know You Are, But What Am I". In this game, a culprit accuses another person of committing the very crime that he, himself, has committed.
It's called "Pay to Play". Crooked Hillary. Blah, blah, blah.
Trump
There is no collusion, except by the Democrats.
Trump
Scientists Made Snails Remember Something That Never Happened to Them
Those scientists should study Trump and his White House staff. They are able to auto-spontaneously remember things that never happened.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 18, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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no we've descended to the lowest common denominator of reading comprehension. Stupid Edumacation!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 18, 2018 - 10:51am PT
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Be Best!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 18, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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Hey Cosmic, Edward, blah blah, etc
I know the pride you guys take in being well informed on the issues
so I would like to get your take on this one
Trump in clear violation of Constitution’s Emoluments Clause as China funds new Trump resort project
A billion-dollar resort project being developed in Indonesia by the president’s business empire, the Trump Organization, is to receive $500 million from the Chinese government. The president’s company has been involved in the project since 2015, according to the South China Morning Post.
Trump’s continued involvement with his business empire has resulted in multiple violations of the Emoluments Clause, argues CREW. The group has sued him for illegally taking payments from foreign heads of state as well as state governors, as many international and American politicians have stayed at Trump’s hotels, dined at his restaurants, and held events at his resorts since he became president.
So guys, explain how Trump is not violating the Emoluments Clause?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 18, 2018 - 11:15am PT
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^^^
I'd love to see just such an explanation from one of the conservative-leaning members here.
No name-calling, just a rational explanation.
Is there one?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 18, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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And, please add to the explanation a description of how the following is not overt bribery by the Chinese of President Trump:
1. The President takes a hard line on trade with China;
2. Having caught the Chinese company ZTE cheating and lying about North Korean sanctions, the President orders them cut off from American made parts, thus effectively gutting the company;
3. The President's Indonesian business venture then receives half a billion dollars of Chinese investment;
4. Shortly thereafter the President backs off of sanctions against ZTE.
Is this bribery? It appears like bribery to me, but I certainly don't know all the background facts either.
Are there other explanations? Did anything else change other than this Chinese funding?
I'm open minded. I really dislike President Trump and his utterly corrupt administration. But I'm open minded.
To prove that I'm open minded, I'd be willing to start listing things that this fool has done that I like.
But one of you right-leaning posters help me out here. Please. No name calling, just a simple-english explanation. Was President Trump bribed by the Chinese?
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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May 18, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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This is how they will get him to take a soft line on North Korea.
Of course Trump is going to get bribed - it's his MO. It's not really bribery though, it's just BS as usual.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 18, 2018 - 11:29am PT
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Hey Cosmic, blah blah, Edward, etc
*Are you happy you are going to being paying higher healthcare premiums under "TrumpCare"?
If you buy your own health insurance, gird yourself for another round of big premium increases next year.
Double-digit premium increases again appear to be on the horizon for many consumers.
Health insurance companies instituted big premium increases for 2018 in anticipation of Trump’s plan to cut off billions of dollars in repayments the federal government owed health insurers covering the lowest-income exchange customers. Insurers also reacted to Trump’s comments in 2017 that hinted his administration wouldn’t fully enforce the individual mandate.
You get what you vote for, how do you like all this "winning"?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 18, 2018 - 11:35am PT
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But, but Hillary and Obama....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fox News hires reporters that The Onion has rejected for being unimaginative.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Calling people returded is offensive to them. Use a different word.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 18, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
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#LIBTURDS
Cosmic, your powerful intellect scares me so much
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 18, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
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Cosmic, your powerful intellect scares me so much
@Norton--I went to college in the 60s, it took me six years instead of four to get a Bachelors
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Because Russia has a lot of power.
The USA must keep up with Joneses by making a smear campaign against whomever it feels there is a threat perceived or not.
Russia is NOT a threat.
The US makes artificial boogymen and threats to keep the war machine in business as that drives the economy,
That is why Americans are st00pid and brainwashed as they believe all that horesh!t coming out of the phony intel smear campaigns .....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 18, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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Russia is NOT a threat.
Unless you're a former spook who irritated Putie
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 18, 2018 - 08:23pm PT
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Russia isn't a threat ...vladmir wants to be your friend...lovable and huggable but so masculine..
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2018 - 10:41pm PT
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I went to college in the 60s, it took me six years instead of four to get a Bachelors
I entered college in 1980, and didn't get my filigreed walking papers until 1988 (OK, it was January, 1989, because I had to resubmit my undergraduate thesis, again, because I submitted it too late in '88). I took two years off, in the middle, and went climbing. I swapped leads on my first Big Wall, back then, instead of making excellent grades and running as fast as I could towards a career treadmill.
It's not the hand you are dealt; it's how you play it.
My advisor suggested that I stop taking classes, all over the place, and concentrate on getting a degree, and getting on with my life. But, college, for me, was a wonderful experience. I was taking classes, all over the place, in all different disciplines. I would spend my homework time at the top floor of the library - where all the good technical books were - learning, and not working towards a degree.
For what it's worth, the architecture program at Cal Poly, at that time, recognized that four years was not enough time to get a degree. Classes were difficult to get into, and it was acknowledged that five years was more reasonable.
No such reasonableness existed in my mechanical engineering department, when I was there. I was an aberration.
And, student throughput was a highly sought goal, for the department officials who were wrassling away in a publicly-funded university environment.
I finally decided to leave. There is only so much you can learn in school, and that is how to learn how to learn.
Hunter S. Thompson
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 19, 2018 - 07:10am PT
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I never got a degree...2 credits for taking a photography class...ha, ha lituya ...you can't make fun of me for taking too long for a BA...I may be a stoopid american but i'm not a loser like the people that voted for the stable genius...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 19, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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no one, no employer, has ever asked me for proof I graduated college or my grades
it is kind of like going through divinity or reverent school, never have to prove anything
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 19, 2018 - 07:38am PT
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Litya has only cheap insults to make his weak points that provide zero discourse on the subject matter
Russia is a threat if they want to screw with the country's democracy, create division, sow chaos and discontent
Russia has been successful in this endeavor
Our Country has never been such a mess, and it's all due to The Donald and RUSSIA
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 19, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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That is horrible Moose. have you no shame?
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 19, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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Litya has only cheap insults to make his weak points that provide zero discourse on the subject matter
Lituya puts out counter points in a reasonable manner which are always met with the b.s pussy retorts that ST is renowned for.
It screws up your circle jerk rhythm I guess?
You libtards here have very little in the way of intelligent discourse. Just self-loathing masked by petty outrage. It's a joke.
Copy/paste of whatever garbage pops up on YOUR Google and say "prove me wrong". You lazy fawks.
Google keeps you drooling and in your safe space.
Your Blue wave is what I see when I drop a deux and flush at 37,000ft
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 19, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
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Yet HoMan is either new to ST and pretty much solely here to make anti-"Libtard" posts to this thread, or another ST user unwilling to be associated with t=what they write and masking their identity with a throwaway profile.
One thing I do notice about the "anti-libtard crowd is that they seem to tend to make baseless statements, and then repeat them ad nauseum. It makes for low quality discourse. While I do agree that there are some anti-Trumpers who post hateful things, for the most part, we try to bring up reality-based current events topics. They may SEEM outlandish, because they ARE, but that's not because they are made up, but rather the actors are behaving so outlandishly.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 19, 2018 - 03:21pm PT
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Radical and skip, old hands at this.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 19, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
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tRump was elected based on a constant stream of total BS, that continues to this day. There is little hope his hard core base will return to fact-based reasoning on anything while he is in power.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 19, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Did Bill Gates teach tRump the difference between Melville and Melanie?
"Nuthin' but a big Whale Hunt, I tell ya."
-Lloyd Bridges
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 19, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
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While I do agree that there are some anti-Trumpers who post hateful things, for the most part, we try to bring up reality-based current events topics.
Stunning that you actually believe this. Of course, you are kind of a conspiracy-nut, right? Sweep the latest unrealized 'prediction' under the rug and blather louder about the next?
There really is little hope of reaching any of you. Your social realities were constructed long ago and reinforced by the company you choose to keep. One of the few (only?) places you can see alternative points of view just seems to work you into a collective frenzy--always followed by a string of insults.
You truly are the proverbial Mob.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 19, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
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Melania is the one I do feel sorry for
She was a poor immigrant girl trying to get a start in modeling when she met Donald
and Donald was overcome with empathy and compassion for her low income and job
but somehow the two crazy people saw what they needed in each other
Melania saw great financial security and unlimited Gucci purchases, Donald saw huge boobs
so the kids rushed into a whirlwind of great passion and love for each other
but then things started to change, that lying actor who played Donald in the AccessHollywood video...
then the lying Stormy Daniels banging Donald right after little Baron was born...
then the Playboy Bunny lies about her and Donald falling in love...
then the 12 other lying women...all planted by those Libtards of course
so nowadays Melania lives in her floor of Trump Tower in New York City with Barron
--meanwhile the betting markets have it at 50/50 she files for divorce from Donald by Halloween
While I do agree that there are some anti-Trumpers who post hateful things, for the most part, we try to bring up reality-based current events topics.
Just the facts Ma'am.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 20, 2018 - 03:00am PT
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Pud, Donald Trump is a liar.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 20, 2018 - 06:20am PT
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General questions, discussion, community — join the conversation!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 20, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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I don't who's predictions haven't come true,
but all of mine have, or will become true
1) Will be the WORST President EVER. True
2) Will only work for his own glory and monetary gain. True
3) Will lie about everything. True
4) Is a Fascist. True
5) Will work in tandem with the most corrupt deep state swamp monsters and influential right wing billionaires to give them everything they want while the common working class gets F-ed. True
6) More homeless. True
7) Will be indicted for this Russer thing. Will happen
8) Will resign in shame, but his supporters will call it a deep state take down like idiots. Will happen
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 20, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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9) Will balloon the National debt in collusion with a corrupt Congress and the Republicans won't give sh#t until they lose the next election. True
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 20, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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Jolly Roger...Yeah i would want Hillary in jail...corruption is corruption but trump is the one being investigated by a republican Bush appointee appointed by another republican attorney general...I'm all for hillary getting investigated but hasn't that been done...? Maybe not but it's Trump turn in the hot seat and it seems like he's desperately trying to derail the investigation which leads me to believe he's hiding something...? Like , where's his tax returns...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
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While not defending Trump in any way, I do wonder if all you die hard haters would push the same if it were HRC?
"Die Hard Haters" is a strange euphasmism/epithet for people who want to see that the law is enforced when criminal activity has occurred.
I suppose that people who hate criminal activity could be called haters. And, so could people who hate Africanized bees, mosquitoes, rabid dogs, flu virus, sinkholes, termites and other things that distress normal human beings.
The phrasing of the question reminds me of seeing remnants of the Manson Family outside a courtroom, on TV, back in 1969:
"Oh, poor Charlie. Everyone here is so full of hate."
The 4-year investigation into HRC, a la Benghazi, was a witch hunt. The only indictment came down against a Libyan, Ahmed Abu Khattala, for instigating the attack. And the people pushing so hard, back then, are the same ones who are calling for an end to Mueller's investigation.
Mueller's investigation is not a witch hunt. He has indicted 20, gotten confessions from five, and already jailed one. Each week, the official Trump story changes a bit more towards corresponding to what most people already suspect to be the truth.
I wonder if you die hard haters would push so hard, if HRC had blown up the Oklahoma Federal Building after she burned up all the Waco Davidian children, and then flew the private jet Goldman Sachs bought her into both World Trade Center towers.
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WBraun
climber
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May 20, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
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Hey st00pid politards .....
The criminals Trump, Hillary, and etc are all still running free doing damage.
This proves you politards are only useless loons to only drool on the internet .....
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 20, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
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Thanks for sharing, WB.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
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Trump's Freudian slip indicates that while his wife was away, he snuck out and played.
There is some confusion about who Trump was referring to, because there are many porn stars named Melanie.
Will Robert Mueller uncover a Trump connection to Columbian drug lord money and favors?
It's OK to roast and ridicule Trump with absurd lies, because that is how he likes to play. Trump is dishonorable and contemptible in the way he treats other people. So, it is only proper that we, the People, embrace a Hammurabi-derived "eye-for-an-eye" response to his wickedness.
Ironically, all of Trump's boasting of being the world's #1 hotelier isn't going to help him when he has to sleep in the filthy, vermin-ridden bed he has made for himself.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 20, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
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He is complaining so much about the investigation because it is going to cause his 7th bankruptcy. Daddy won’t bail him out this time.
No morals, born into money and privilege, what a d#@&%e.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 20, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
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does anyone here notice that It is distracting us from the impending Zinke-fied "good thing" hydrocarbon infrasructurization, drilling and eventual hydraulic fracturing of bedrock beneath the 10k'-sourced xtal clear creek that feeds Grand Junction's, you know, MUNICIPAL DRINKING WATER?
anyhow, babydick's curling up more into an orange milk dud with It's diminishing quality of life for sure. finally going under the bus like errybody else It and them-themmers encounter.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 20, 2018 - 04:50pm PT
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also, it occurs to me that W von Brawny has a thing for HRC. gross.
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Trump
climber
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May 20, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
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Yea old punky Trump, got himself elected POTUS so he could flout the rules in our faces, benefit from his anti-emolument stance, and have everyone thinking and talking about him (even we nonpunky supertopo geniuses) 24/7.
Yea, that must really chap him, because he built his empire on good press. It’s not like he publicly called his own daughter a piece of ass on the Howard Stern show 20 years ago or anything like that, right? His image must really be taking a hit in his eyes.
Or maybe he just likes living in his head more than he would like living in our delusional heads.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 20, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
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Talk about a fake. Pud couldn't even get Williamson Rock reopened. Lol
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Trump
climber
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May 20, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
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“that distress normal human beings”
Oh Jesus can we get any more sanctimonious than we already are? The other half of the people who voted for Trump - the 42+% of Americans who approve of Trump - we’ve gone so far off the deep end that we’ve got to think of them as abnormal humans just so we can sleep at night while maintaining our hardline hater attitudes/identities?
Yea I guess we do. That’s just how we normal humans work. On the plus side, normal humans aren’t doing it about my black daughter as much as we used to.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 07:48am PT
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Still funny; Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Qatar, Philippines...
The law that prohibits taking anything of value from any foreign national for a campaign
11 CFR 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510).
(a)Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:
(1)Disbursement has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(d).
(2)Donation has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(e).
(3)Foreign national means -
(i) A foreign principal, as defined in 22 U.S.C. 611(b); or
(ii) An individual who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20); however,
(iii)Foreign national shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States, or who is a national of the United States as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22).
(4)Knowingly means that a person must:
(i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national;
(ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or
(iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable inquiry.
(5) For purposes of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, pertinent facts include, but are not limited to:
(i) The contributor or donor uses a foreign passport or passport number for identification purposes;
(ii) The contributor or donor provides a foreign address;
(iii) The contributor or donor makes a contribution or donation by means of a check or other written instrument drawn on a foreign bank or by a wire transfer from a foreign bank; or
(iv) The contributor or donor resides abroad.
(6)Solicit has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(m).
(7)Safe Harbor. For purposes of paragraph (a)(4)(iii) of this section, a person shall be deemed to have conducted a reasonable inquiry if he or she seeks and obtains copies of current and valid U.S. passport papers for U.S. citizens who are contributors or donors described in paragraphs (a)(5)(i) through (iv) of this section. No person may rely on this safe harbor if he or she has actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, accepted, or received is a foreign national.
(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
(c)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals to political committees and organizations of political parties. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to:
(1) A political committee of a political party, including a national party committee, a national congressional campaign committee, or a State, district, or local party committee, including a non-Federal account of a State, district, or local party committee, or
(2) An organization of a political party whether or not the organization is a political committee under 11 CFR 100.5.
(d)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals for office buildings. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party for the purchase or construction of an office building. See 11 CFR 300.10 and 300.35.
(e)Disbursements by foreign nationals for electioneering communications. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any disbursement for an electioneering communication as defined in 11 CFR 100.29.
(f)Expenditures, independent expenditures, or disbursements by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
(g)Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.
(h)Providing substantial assistance.
(1) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the solicitation, making, acceptance, or receipt of a contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d), and (g) of this section.
(2) No person shall knowingly provide substantial assistance in the making of an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement prohibited by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section.
(i)Participation by foreign nationals in decisions involving election-related activities. A foreign national shall not direct, dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process of any person, such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization with regard to such person's Federal or non-Federal election-related activities, such as decisions concerning the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with elections for any Federal, State, or local office or decisions concerning the administration of a political committee.
(j)Donations by foreign nationals to inaugural committees. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a donation to an inaugural committee, as defined in 11 CFR 104.21(a)(1). No person shall knowingly accept from a foreign national any donation to an inaugural committee.
[ 67 FR 69950, Nov. 19, 2002, as amended at 69 FR 59780, Oct. 6, 2004]
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 21, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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Thanks Craig.
You really know how to bring the levity.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 08:24am PT
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This long, yes, but such a good analysis that it must be read by ALL
This is what comes of conservatism, because it is what ALWAYS comes of conservatism
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/18/1765271/-This-is-what-comes-of-conservatism-because-it-is-ALWAYS-is-what-comes-of-conservatism
What does it mean to do the same thing over and over and expect different outcomes? It means being a conservative. Across history and across cultures, conservatism always winds up in the same place: violence, xenophobia, cultural division, inequality, societal breakdown, oligarchy, kleptocracy, eroding values, subjugation of truth, concentration of power.
Pick a society or culture, conservatism always serves the interests of a few at the expense of the general populace, always betrays the people in favor of the powerful. By being a force to preserve the past, conservatism may sound benign and high-minded — tradition, values, merit. The questions to always be asked, however, are these:
Whose tradition?
What values?
How is merit to be defined?
For the issue of conservatism is always the same: someone is in the position of choosing these things, excluding others — conservatism is, ironically but not, elitist. Conservatism purports to favor the marketplace of ideas, a sort of intellectual capitalism, but as in all forms of capitalism favored by conservatives they try to rig the game. Exclude certain voters, limit rights, control media — because conservatism’s principle is for a powerful few to select certain deserving ideas over undeserving ideas.
As a backward-looking movement, conservatism chooses what tradition, what values, what merit matters. Orwell’s observation that who controls the past controls the future identifies the ultimate conservative notion. MY version of tradition, MY version of values, MY version of merit, claiming universality for values that are strictly sectarian.
That is the fundamental of conservatism — to decide what and who deserve to thrive, and to exclude (or worse) the underserving. Fundamentalist religions determine who believes the right things and determine what the right things are, condemning all alternatives. Fiscal conservatives aren’t interested in limiting spending, only in the power to select where the money is spent, excluding things they don’t like. Social conservatives don’t condemn all perverse behaviors, only the ones they get to choose as perverse.
For conservatives, the principle issue is to choose who is deserving. If some are, then some are not, as simple as that.
Traditional definitions of “right” and “left” make those loaded terms: communism is “leftist”, so Soviet Russia and Red China are said to be leftist. However, those societies were and are fundamentally conservative — the “leftist” communism became the banner waved to preserve the extreme conservatism of the powerful elites. US conservatives like to focus on the communist label, assign it to liberals everywhere, when what they mean is the despotic conservative governments of the USSR, the PRC, DPRK, the old Warsaw Pact, and others. Those are perfect examples of conservatism — the label doesn’t describe the contents.
The real question is always: who gets to choose who is “deserving”. In conservative systems, important questions are “Who is Christian enough?”, “Who is Communist enough?”, “Who is American enough?”...who is in the club and who is not? “Who is wealthy enough?” has become a question in the US, an inversion of the question “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?” — “I am rich, therefore, I am smart and deserving”.
In conservative worlds, the burden of being undeserving is dealt with cruelly, betraying the lies of whatever underlying values are claimed by the deserving. So-called Christians demand cruelty for immigrants, prisoners, poor people, dark people, Muslim people, sick people, disabled people, anyone they can label as “undeserving” of the blessings of liberty, undeserving of the blessings of Christ’s teaching: Blessed are the meek, the poor, said Jesus. “That which you do the the least among us, that also you do to me”, admonished the Son of God.
These anachronisms are called out as hypocrisy, but hypocrisy misses the point. It’s not hypocritical, it’s conservative — that is what conservatism does, it’s what conservatism has always done.
Conservatism rises and always falls. It rises on the populism of inclusion in the club, the power to choose who is deserving and undeserving. It is always corrupt, because it always depends on a rigged game. If a conservative is decrying a rigged game, it is because they either didn’t get to do the rigging or they are playing their subjects’ fears of being victims of getting rigged out of what they think they deserve.
The assertions of conservatism always depend on fallacy:
•Ad hominem — abuse of the opponent.
•Ad baculum — might makes right, the wealthy are the job creators, the backbone of America
•Ad populum — “The American people demand...”, “everyone is saying I deserve the Nobel Prize”
•Ignoratio elenchii — Bill Clinton had an affair. Liberals lack morality.
•Fallacy of accident — what was true in one case proves a generalization. One immigrant in one place is accused of murder, therefore immigrants are murderers and immigration is a threat to society.
•Fallacy of converse accident — putting even limited gun laws in place will lead to all guns being confiscated.
(From reader libre nos)
•Appeal to authority: The Bible says … the Founders … original interpretation … Adam Smith. WTF, even Laffer.
•Appeal to antiquity: “We've always done it this way.” “Surely , if there was something wrong we would have fixed it by now.”
•Circular reasoning: The unrestricted free market is the best economic system, because it works better than any other system in a republic, which is the best political system, because it’s compatible with the unrestricted free market.
•Petitio principii (begging the question, unjustified assumptions): Conservative social values are best, because they’re based on a strong nuclear family with well-defined gender roles.
What can one say about conservatism when it depends entirely on fallacy?
Conservatism always falls the same way — justice prevails. Justice is the force that resets the term deserving to mean everyone. Conservatism always fights justice the same way — with power exercised by the select few. The only variable is the power applied: money, intimidation, physical force.
Be very clear. Donald Trump is a symptom, not the problem. Neo-Nazis are symptoms, not the problem. Vast inequality is a symptom, not the problem. Voting rights suppression is a symptom, not the problem. Violence against immigrants is a symptom, not the problem. Economy-breaking tax breaks are a symptom, not the problem. Putting a US embassy in Jerusalem and getting protesting Palestinians killed are symptoms, not the problem. Denying Medicaid benefits to poor people is a symptom, not the problem. Good Lord, one can go on and on and on for days. The denials of justice are stacking up like a Jenga game. Like Jenga, conservatism always fails. By denying justice, conservatism is fundamentally unstable. It always pulls blocks from the foundation to benefit the top.
America, hopefully, has come to a point in the conservative Jenga game where enough people know it needs to stop and get dismantled into a more just state. I’ve been thinking of conservatism as a futile struggle against time, gravity and equilibrium, but that’s going over the edge, don’t you think?
Democrats, as liberals, need to frame each individual battle in service of fulfilling America’s mission. Standing up for oppressed constituencies are battles. Every battle must to be fought, in the context of winning the war of justice for all. Justice for some but not all is failure in America’s mission. This is a war that has been underway for America’s history.
Liberalism requires confidence. The Founders knew that and debated the degree of confidence that should be placed in the wisdom of the people. The design of the republic reflects their negotiated means to manage extremes in various directions. The breathtaking courage in the design at the time reflected liberal confidence in the people. Many of the shortcomings in the design descend from failures of confidence, even cowardice on the parts of conservative elements, preserving power structures that betrayed justice.
If liberalism requires confidence, it is also true that conservatism requires cowardice. Liberalism trusts all the people to participate and that wisdom will prevail. Conservatism distrusts, fears futures. Liberalism, ironically, says “Trust, but verify”. Conservatism says, “Fear, so control”.
Hell, conservatives even prefer their own sectarian interpretations of their own (religious, financial or political) Bible over the American Constitution out of fear that the Constitution permits too much for too many underserving sorts.
As liberals, as Democrats, the mission is to restore America on a pathway to a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, insuring domestic Tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general Welfare, and securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.
The strategy must be to make sure America knows that ALL those values must be secure for ALL if they are to secure for any. A Union that creeps toward denying voters and setting states against one another is not becoming more perfect. Mistreating sectors of society for racial, religious, sexual orientations, or other reasons is not establishing Justice. Domestic Tranquility is not insured by armed groups prepared to inflict casualties on people. The common defense is not served by betraying allies and provoking killing abroad. The general Welfare is not promoted by denying rights, food, medical care and housing to poorer people while transferring wealth to the wealthy. The Blessings of Liberty are only secured to ourselves AND our Posterity if we have the courage to trust individuals in the expression of their rights and to look forward.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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I am a moderate
That's why the far left hate me as well
To bring DWS up at this point??
Loony
This far left will screw up 2018 just like 2016
vvv
and I've been a moderate since the seventies, and still a Dem
if DWS is trigger for you, then you are a far left loon
and susceptible to any negative propaganda, especially Russian
it's like bringing up Uranium One, or Bill's BJ, a distraction and pointed attack to create division
step away from the kool aid
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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The Brave Cowboy,Lol
Craig , I just want to remind you, I have the same ideology as I had in the seventies,now I am the far left.
You made my point, I was a moderate,now my long entrenched ideas are Radical. It is how far right everything has gone.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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That is the fundamental of conservatism — to decide what and who deserve to thrive, and to exclude (or worse) the underserving. Fundamentalist religions determine who believes the right things and determine what the right things are, condemning all alternatives. Fiscal conservatives aren’t interested in limiting spending, only in the power to select where the money is spent, excluding things they don’t like.
Social conservatives don’t condemn all perverse behaviors, only the ones they get Traditional definitions of “right” and “left” make those loaded terms: communism is “leftist”, so Soviet Russia and Red China are said to be leftist. However, those societies were and are fundamentally conservative — the “leftist” communism became the banner waved to preserve the extreme conservatism of the powerful elites. US conservatives like to focus on the communist label, assign it to liberals everywhere, when what they mean is the despotic conservative governments of the USSR, the PRC, DPRK, the old Warsaw Pact, and others. Those are perfect examples of conservatism — the label doesn’t describe the contents.to choose as perverse.
For conservatives, the principle issue is to choose who is deserving. If some are, then some are not, as simple as that.
The real question is always: who gets to choose who is “deserving”. In conservative systems, important questions are “Who is Christian enough?”, “Who is Communist enough?”, “Who is American enough?”...who is in the club and who is not? “Who is wealthy enough?” has become a question in the US, an inversion of the question “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?” — “I am rich, therefore, I am smart and deserving”.
In conservative worlds, the burden of being undeserving is dealt with cruelly, betraying the lies of whatever underlying values are claimed by the deserving. So-called Christians demand cruelty for immigrants, prisoners, poor people, dark people, Muslim people, sick people, disabled people, anyone they can label as “undeserving” of the blessings of liberty, undeserving of the blessings of Christ’s teaching “Blessed are the meek, the poor, said Jesus. That which you do the the least among us, that also you do to me”, admonished the Son of God.
These anachronisms are called out as hypocrisy, but hypocrisy misses the point. It’s not hypocritical, it’s conservative — that is what conservatism does, it’s what conservatism has always done.
Conservatism rises and always falls. It rises on the populism of inclusion in the club, the power to choose who is deserving and undeserving. It is always corrupt, because it always depends on a rigged game. If a conservative is decrying a rigged game, it is because they either didn’t get to do the rigging or they are playing their subjects’ fears of being victims of getting rigged out of what they think they deserve.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 21, 2018 - 10:39am PT
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Not everyone likes Trump. We get it.
But it's important to keep in mind that picking federal judges (or so-called "justices" when they happen to be on the Supreme court) is one of the more important things the prez does, and so far Trump has done a good job at that.
For example, who can doubt that the decision would have been the opposite in this case: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/21/divided-supreme-court-rules-for-businesses-over-workers.html
Consider the wonderful lucidity of Justice Gorsuch in his majority opinion:
Justice Neil Gorsuch, writing for the majority, said the contracts are valid under the arbitration law. "As a matter of policy these questions are surely debatable. But as a matter of law the answer is clear," Gorsuch wrote.
Here we had what was really a very simple case, with a "clear" answer as explained by Justice Gorsuch. But the Lib (in)Justices hated the result, so tried to "legislate from the bench" to rewrite the statutes to get the result they wanted. Thankfully they're in the minority (except when jointed by the sometimes treacherous Kennedy) so they just have to cry about it like ol' Ginsburg did!
So, when you're hating on Trump, at least spend a moment to reflect that it's not all bad, and give thanks that he's put such able jurists on the the bench!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 21, 2018 - 10:46am PT
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I'd rather we selected Justices based on their looks.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 21, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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Hey, that's a great example of yet another case where trump's working class base voted to f*#k themselves up the a*# as they are the very workers in question.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 21, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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That was funny blah blah you try to make a point about con justices being impartial but infuse it with so much ideology and partisanship that you completely undermine you point. Was that a joke?
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dirtbag
climber
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May 21, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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But it's important to keep in mind that picking federal judges (or so-called "justices" when they happen to be on the Supreme court) is one of the more important things the prez does, and so far Trump has done a good job at that.
Many of his picks have been grossly, even shockingly unqualified.
Yes, he coughed up gorsuch and a few others. But so would’ve any other right wing president with a right wing congress. It’s not like he had any special insights to offer.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 21, 2018 - 11:56am PT
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I was a moderate,now my long entrenched ideas are Radical.
Which of your formerly moderate views are now considered radical?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
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Universal Health Care for one,if you need more look at any progressive point.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 21, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
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Excellent Question, Edward! I would like to know too.
How far "right" have things gone since the 60s? I'm sure he's talking about abortion on demand? or maybe gay marriage? or teaching grade school kids that gender is now a 'spectrum?' or blue-state property tax rates that have become oppressive? or state and local bureaucracies that now treat citizens as subjects?
Universal health care? It was never a "moderate" position here in the US.
Try harder. Or just admit your premise was hyperbole.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 21, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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Universal healthcare wasn't being discussed back in the 70s.
Not really.
It was a non-issue. Today it's not a far left issue. I'd be okay with it. Does that make me a leftwing radical?
Were you an advocate for gay marriage? Transgender rights?
How about elimination of immigration controls?
Repealing the 2nd Amendment?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
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Jimmy Carter talked of it ,so your right ,it wasn’t discussed.
HS
Everything in the progressive agenda,for people,is revered today as radical or dreaming Same as the 70s,wages,war ,MIC,you name it.
You are lucky those coastal elites up there ran HIllary.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 21, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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GoSuck was such a great pick? Ironically Trump appointed him because Congress violated the Constitution and refused to vote on Obama's choice. Good one blabby.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 21, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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How far right? Goldwater would be considered a Progressive, Nixon slammed as a moderate Republican, and Reagan disavowed as a Democrat.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 21, 2018 - 01:01pm PT
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For example, who can doubt that the decision would have been the opposite in this case: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/21/divided-supreme-court-rules-for-businesses-over-workers.html
Hey, that's a great example of yet another case where trump's working class base voted to f*#k themselves up the a*# as they are the very workers in question.
Oh the plaintiffs' class action lawyers are Trump's working class base? They're the only ones that strike it rich in that game (well I suppose their well heeled counterparts on the defense side don't too badly either).
But anyway, not everyone is in favor of a judicial system where you just pick which outcome in a particular case you like and then magically that's what the law becomes. No, we'd rather have the honest "balls and strikes" jurisprudence of the great Chief Justice Roberts, even though it occasionally may generate an undesirable result in a particular case. (But if you look at Supreme Court cases with Roberts in charge, the honest balls and strikes approach seems to provide a pretty good outcome most of the time!)
GoSuck was such a great pick? Ironically Trump appointed him because Congress violated the Constitution and refused to vote on Obama's choice. Good one blabby.
True they may have played "fast and loose" with the Constitution on that one, and used a little hardball to get rid of Garland. I would have preferred that they would have considered Garland and, after due deliberation, voted his ass out of there! But as the result would have been the same, we can consider the Senate's seemingly unconstitutional refusal to even consider Obama's pick just a "harmless error" as they say in legal circles.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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Conservatism always falls the same way — justice prevails. Justice is the force that resets the term deserving to mean everyone. Conservatism always fights justice the same way — with power exercised by the select few. The only variable is the power applied: money, intimidation, physical force.
Be very clear. Donald Trump is a symptom, not the problem. Neo-Nazis are symptoms, not the problem. Vast inequality is a symptom, not the problem. Voting rights suppression is a symptom, not the problem. Violence against immigrants is a symptom, not the problem. Economy-breaking tax breaks are a symptom, not the problem. Putting a US embassy in Jerusalem and getting protesting Palestinians killed are symptoms, not the problem. Denying Medicaid benefits to poor people is a symptom, not the problem. Good Lord, one can go on and on and on for days. The denials of justice are stacking up like a Jenga game. Like Jenga, conservatism always fails. By denying justice, conservatism is fundamentally unstable. It always pulls blocks from the foundation to benefit the top.
Can any conservative disagree with any of this analysis?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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True they may have played "fast and loose" with the Constitution on that one, and used a little hardball to get rid of Garland.
The Republicans think they're being clever when they game the system, as with Gerrymandered districts and violating the Constitution. But, the public is becoming fed up with favoritism towards an elite few, and Congress will soon be in the hands of the Democrats. And, all the monkey business that temporarily empowers the Republicans will be thrown back at them, in spades.
The presence of a deceptive, deceitful and dishonest president is part of the GOP's temporary empowerment. Like all con men, Trump's game plan relies on people being stupid and gullible, and he has contempt for his victims. Soon, Trump will be fully exposed and voter remorse will be widespread.
It is truly fortuitous that Trump is so arrogant and hubristic, he continues to violate law after law, erroneously believing himself to be too big to fail. He thinks that he can't be indicted, because that would be too disruptive for the nation. Trump's false sense of invincibility will directly contribute to his downfall, the same way it did for Nixon.
History will show that Trump did, indeed, make America great again. His moral turpitude, disregard for the truth, and his financial exploitation of the office of president is so extreme and repugnant, entire chapters will be written into the law books. For example, it will be mandatory for presidential candidates to release their tax returns, and for them to sever financial ties that could pose a conflict of interest. Laws against pay-for-play corruption will be tightened up, and penalties will be harsher. There will be greater scrutiny and enforcement of election laws, so that foreign nations, hostile or friendly, do not influence or interfere in our elections. Foreign influence in our political system, as a whole, will be diminished.
A Democratic backlash against the current Republican agenda favoring elites is coming. The key word is democratic, as in coming from the voters. #MAGA
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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I have not posted on this thread for a bit of a while, but I follow it, it is fun.
I have made my beliefs and feelings known already and I am not going to change anybody's mind.
So…
I have power washed the house to prep for painting, polished off a manuscript, now for the tough part… my publisher.
Got the kayak out as the weather and sea is much calmer lately, bouldered some.
So this weekend, a bottle of wine, reduced (price) fillet steak and prawns (surf and turf, no lobster though).
and watched the first three Star Wars. It's been a while.
And one thing that struck me is that, Jabba the Hutt and Donald Trump could be twins.
Cue some window cleaner digging up photos of me and altering them. I await.
EDIT
And…
Aggie (dog) and Betty (cat) get along like sister they play, "fight", it was funny to see Betty chasing Aggie around the yard yesterday, I wish I could have videotaped it.
But this evening, I always feed Betty first, as the younger and smaller always goes first. Aggie ate her full then "sniped" at Betty, jealously probably. Betty was nervous and hid behind the TV, never saw that before. I quietly and slightly reprimanded Aggie,
I am trying to reconcile them, of course they will, they love each other, just two different species misunderstanding one another.
Homo Sapiens are one species, and the level of misunderstanding between humans can be staggering.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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Tom, you make good points, I wish I had the same hope
The conservatives will never change, they will do everything possible to win in 2018 and 2020. The smear campaigns, gerrymandering, voter roll purges, voter machine tampering, and every other way to cheat will be off the charts...
The far left will vote for a third party, and we may lose.
The Republicans have control of all the branches of Government
It may take a Constitutional crisis to take this cancer out.
Just look at the circular firing squad here,
we're screwed
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
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Look if you believe the far left did not vote for HIllary and just voted for a third party candidate,there is nothing I can say to change your mind.
Every progressive I know voted for H.
It was the weekend liberals and moderates that stayed home ,allowing all this.
Go back and read what DMT said about this.
The real problem was H not caring about a few states that won it for T.
Edit;Tom, I hope you are right.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 04:09pm PT
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Agreed
But H lost those states from other reasons than not caring
Those states were targeted for must wins by Trump and the rigged system
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
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Agreed
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 21, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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The conservatives...will do everything possible to win in 2018 and 2020. Of course, as it should be. The considerable potential for losing the voters they've gained over the years probably why they are so loathe to acknowledge, much less call out, the Trump shenanigans.
I think the GOP pols would rather see their *party* morph into a dictatorship rather than let go of what they see as control.
The far left will vote for a third party, and we may lose. We will lose. We already did in 2016 due to the Bernie campaign. I really enraged me that people were selfish and went with the pie in sky ideals like "free college, free healthcare," when there was so much more at stake.
There has been indication that the 2016 support for Bernie was as much a fake news/amplified campaign as was the anti-Hillary. Dems can be angry all they want that GOP's voted Trump, but when it comes time to look at themselves, and admit they fell for a smoke and mirror campaign themselves - not so willing to accept that one. They DO bear a responsibility for the Trump win.
You can COUNT on a push toward another idealistic candidate in 2020.
It may take a revolution to take this cancer out.
That is what *they* want us to believe. AND act upon. It is just MORE DISINFORMATION AND PROVOCATION. Be CAREFUL about that line of thinking.
It is utterly naive to believe there is ANY possibility that a repeat of the founding fathers of this country will rise like the phoenix of war again in a new generation. NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN.
Take a look around at any of the countries engaged in civil war. THAT is the reality. Starvation, Displacement, Round-ups, Torture, Rape, Murder... While the rich and powerful sit back and enjoy the show the way the proles watch Game of Thrones. Waiting it out, looting resources anything of value while the chaos is enacted, with the bonus of a reduction in population.
Talk of revolution is a bad, bad, idea. Learn about your candidates, vote at your local level, and hold them accountable. Don't fall for "false" candidates who seem almost too good to be true. They will be. The "carrot candidate," as Bernie was, as Warren will be, is absolutely going to be part of the GOP strategy.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
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This thread has become an echo chamber, for both sides of thought, for both sides of the aisle.
That is how I have been reading it.
Round and round it goes.
An "Us against Them" mentality has taken root, and it seems my fellow liberals and progressives who are the primary "culprits ".
Not to say that the pro-Trumpers are any gauge of intelligent rhetoric.
So we can diss Trump, diss, Mueller, diss Hillary (old news), diss… take your pick. I personally think that Messi is a far better all-round footballer than Ronaldo. Just my opinion.
Where is that getting us?
To some degree I can agree, all of this dissing of Trump's supporters is counterproductive.
Look back on earlier threads (I do not care to do the research, I am lazy at times, especially at 1am with some wine on me). When that idiot Hillary called that idiot Trump's supporters deplorables", I said it was a big mistake. Look it up on the Taco Stand, it is there, somewhere.
You just do not do that, the opposition will close ranks, even I know that.
So what in the wide world of sports can get Trump out of the WH.And to get more moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats in DC?
Bitching up Trump supporters is not the way. Neither is Pelosi or friends. The Democrats need a viable alternative to the Trump shitstorm. I do not see one.
EDIT
And who am I to talk. I have so many faults, the San Andreas would be envious.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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At this stage in the game, I do not care about Hillary, she is not POTUS, or Mueller, or Pence or Nunes, or Ryan or….
In my eyes, in my opinion, Donald Trump has no morals, no empathy for people. He is not amoral, he is immoral, He is greedy. He only cares about himself (perhaps his family some).
It is so obvious. The mob ties, long before he had dreams of being POTUS, the screwing of contractors and subcontractors (people trying to make a living). The shafting of shareholders of his failed businesses.
The numerous lawsuits. The… shall I go on.
How in the world can the people of America elect this guy? I know, but it is weird.
Like I said, forget about all the other "scum" and chancers, they are out there (Clinton, Nunes, Pence, too many to count), Donald takes the cake, and he wants to eat it too.
Instead of all of this name calling and dissing Trump or others, what can be done to turn the tide to a moderate, consensus, comprising democracy?
The Taco Stand, this thread, has shed some light, but then…. has it?
IMO, stop dissing Trump supporters, they are not going to change their mind. Instead, come up with a viable, intelligent options, a person who can lead the only other party (two-party system, weird sort of) out of this morass. Stop bitching about Trump, we all know (even his supporters I would think, to some degree), we all know he is a scumbag.
Find somebody better to replace him. That should not be so difficult to do.
EDIT
I suggest Reilly to be POTUS. He knows it all, has done it all, has been around the block, many times it seems, he even has an appreciation thread. He has rubbed shoulders with the best, and owns the Willis Wall.
Reilly for POTUS. He could not be any worse that Trump.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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Another post (did not somebody say that posting twice or more in a row is a sign of mental illness?, Hmmm)
I sort of think that Trump, if he can bypass through his bullsh#t, scandals, distractions and idiotic tweets, he could be re-elected.
Think about that.
And who is going to challenge him.? He could actually win the popular vote, keeping with the "establishment" is against him, all the negative news coverage (from the Fake News crews), all the witch hunt, all the seemingly endless revelations that he sheds off of his back like a duck in the water.
Where then for America? What then for the US?
The Democrats have no consolidating figure, no clue, headless chickens and the Trump camp loves it.
As much as I despise Trump (not hate, you idiots, despise and hate are two different things, get an effing clue), as much as I think he is bad for America and the World, he has a good chance of re-election.
Think about it, and then cry.
EDIT
And you anti-Trumpers will not just listen to the pro-Trumpers, and vice versa.
Close minds make closed souls.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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This is a critical point,someone has to stand up and challenge and then some have to unite behind them.
Now.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
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And who will that be Wilbeer?
I see no strength from the anti-Trump side. I could be wrong, I hope I am. I just do not see it.
That is my viewpoint looking from the outside in.
EDIT
I just do not see anything positive. All I see is negativity. I try my best to read and consider all viewpoints, albeit I consider myself a liberal, but open minded, but in the US I just see polarization.
In the EU (where I live) I see confusion. of my immediate concern, Brexit and the Irish Border, but further afield, the EU is under strain, from within and from without. Much like America in my opinion.
The sands are shifting.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
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I wonder how some claim pie in the sky when we are all subject to this daily clusterf*#k.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 21, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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Just look at the circular firing squad here, we're screwed
Dr. Fail...you were spraying last week that NO WAY Dem's lose next election. Did you run out of meds? All of your predictions have been wrong. People like YOU are what's hosing the DEM party. Calling people you don't even know racists and Nazi's. YOU are the projectionist FASCIST!
Crazee Old Uncle Fritzee said last week he's a Republican. You must hate him too?
First, DEM's must sack Puhlosi and Shroomer. Those two are as dirty as Trump.
I'd like see this young lady run for Prez. Very solid human being
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 21, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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Jaysus Homan, what effing drugs are you on? Your above post made hardly any sense.
Could you retry and rewrite it so I can understand what you are trying to say? In simple words, some of us liberals are dumb.
Edit
And Homan, you have 21 posts and counting. It is nice to hear from such a new and refreshing viewpoint.
Homan is new to the Taco Stand. Many of you know me, know my views. Many of you have also read my self-deprecating posts (many pathetic) about being a failure (in my eyes) as a full-time carer. I have never pretended I am the bees-knees and perfect, like some have (Willis Wall guy), I just try to get along (I have certainly slung some BS in some posts, apologies, we live and we learn).
But it maddens, and saddens, me to see the state of America. Where is the consensus, the compromise, the tolerance, the understanding?
Heck, I leave the country and it goes to pot. Guess I should have stayed there, hah hah.
Best wishes to all. Matters will sort themselves out, they usually do. A pendulum.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 21, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
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Tulsi,you bet?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 21, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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She from Oklahoma..?
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 21, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
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Pat....I was bagging on Dr. Fry for being an azzhat hater
Then I suggested trying a new outlook on a DEM candidate.
Tulsi Gabbard
But first clean House...and Senate leaders.
Then....wait for STools to rise from the sewers and their ensuing stupid comments.
Maybe even get a Twitter #vanlife# update from Happigirl...lol
BTW...I've been here since 07'. Resurrected.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 21, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
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O7...just get out of jail?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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By revolution I mean a Constitutional Reset to overrule the conservative SCOTUS and Congress to eliminate the Influence of money in politics
This is the root cause of all our problems at this time
Never would I endorse any kind of revolution other than to deal with our impending Constitutional crises by using the Rule of Law to repair our institutions
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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HoMan =SkipT
=the fake Dr. F
=the fake philo
=potato head
and several more avatars that were banned by admin
all he does is insult us
and look like an idiot with his lies
and blah blah blah until he gets banned again
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 21, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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Good stuff for uncovering our own unconscious biases that most/all of us have in at least some area:
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html
(I just went through a mandatory training at work that mentioned this and had us do the age-related one).
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 21, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
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It may take a revolution to take this cancer out.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 21, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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OK, we can "Lock him up" now
This is 100 times worse than Hillary's e-mail server that never got hacked
Trump is using an unsecured cell phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111116666666666
https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/everybody-listening-tech-expert-explains-why-trumps-reported-unsecured-phone-use
A new report published Monday by Politico found that President Donald Trump's cell phone use may leave him vulnerable to hackers, potentially risking the spread of any sensitive information he communicates.
"This is insane," said Garrett Graff, director of the Aspen Institutes cybersecurity and technology program, on Twitter of the report. "This means everybody is listening."
According to the report, Trump's White House cell phone lacks the security features that would protect his communications. He uses two cell phones, one for tweeting and one for calling people, but he reportedly doesn't follow the recommended practice of changing out the phones every month, as is advised for the president.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 21, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
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HoMan =SkipT
=the fake Dr. F
=the fake philo
=potato head
and several more avatars that were banned by admin
all he does is insult us
and look like an idiot with his lies
and blah blah blah until he gets banned again
HaHa...wrong again. Dude you flail like no ones business. Dr. Flail
The insults fly here from most posters. Mostly I'm insulting YOU....b/c are a hater bigot.
What about Fritz? He said he's a Repub from ID. Do you hate him Craig. I bet you lie again.
Nutagain....thx for the link. I was in the 17% group. Guess I'm a moderate Nazi per Dr. Flail's math.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 21, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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By revolution I mean a Constitutional Reset to overrule the conservative SCOTUS and Congress to eliminate the Influence of money in politics
A Convention of the States? Take a look at the map, young partisan. The only way that's gonna happen is if the red states want it to.
BTW, Craig Fry, you actually were talking about violent revolution. You're a poor back-peddler.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 21, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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From the notoriously capitalistic/right-wing magazine Forbes:
May 20, 2018 @ 07:00 AM Editor's pick
Trump May Be The Most Fiscally Reckless President In American History
Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2018/05/20/trump-may-be-the-most-fiscally-reckless-president-in-american-history/#1eb5cfe9564a
All of this makes it quite easy to confirm that, less than 18 months into his administration, Donald Trump is the most fiscally irresponsible president at least in recent American history...and quite possibly of all time.
Trump's behavior on everything and anything having to do with the federal budget has become blatantly predictable and painfully obvious. It always includes some combination of:
1. Proposing whatever he wants on revenues and spending regardless of whether it is the right policy for the economy.
2. Making up his own rules of economics, mathematics and budgeting to justify what's being proposed and make them politically palatable.
3. Discrediting the facts when they get in the way of what he wants to do and demeaning those that produce them.
4. Ignoring reality when what actually happens turns out very different from what he swore would occur.
5. Paying no attention whatsoever to the budget deficit and national debt.
Trump's big tax cut demonstrates every ingredient of this witches' brew.
First, the bill's $1.5 trillion revenue loss, debt increase and stimulus was the absolute wrong fiscal policy with the economy so strong.
Second, no amount of Trump insistence and bullying about dynamic scoring was going to make that tax cut revenue neutral.
Third, even when they came from Republican-led groups like the Joint Economic Committee, nonpartisan groups like the Congressional Budget Office and Wall Street, the analyses (and those that did them) showing Trump to be wrong were trashed by the White House.
Fourth, now that the tax cut has been enacted, Trump doesn't seem to care that his promise of a deficit-neutral bill was flat out wrong even though it will cause the budget deficit to reach record heights in good economic times.
But the tax cut is hardly the only example.
Trump's combination of a big increase in military spending and a very large reduction in revenues meant rapidly growing interest payments both because of higher deficits and debt and fast-rising interest rates. There was also Trump's "skinny budget" that wasn't a budget at all; the two full Trump budgets the White House abandoned
seemingly moments after they were released; and the health care debate during which the White House scurrilously criticized CBO for daring to produce highly credible analyses showing the president's numbers were wrong.
The worst thing about all of this is that, even after his policies have done so much damage, neither Trump nor any other members of his economic policy team -- Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow and Council of Economic Advisors Chairman Kevin Hassett -- have even hinted about there being a problem that requires attention and a change in attitude and direction.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 21, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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I know this should really be posted on the 'Giant Ark on the Moon' thread, but here we are.......
In October 2017, President Trump posed with a group of high-ranking military officers and cryptically declared that it was “the calm before the storm.” Most journalists puzzled over the remark for a moment and moved on to whatever chaos came next. But that seemingly random comment was the spark for a what’s now become the new right-wing conspiracy theory du jour: “The Storm”
A few weeks after Trump’s statement, an anonymous poster who claimed to have top secret “Q Clearance” (in reality, a classification only used by the Department of Energy) began posting cryptic “breadcrumbs” of “intel” related to what they claimed was the imminent revelation of a massive conspiracy at the highest levels of government. And Q called it “The Storm.”
https://twitter.com/55true4u/status/973939989347106818
In short, rhetorical fragments, “Q” (also called “QAnon”) revealed that President Trump was not actually under investigation as the mainstream media was reporting, but had really brought in Special Counsel Robert Mueller to crush the gigantic Obama/Clinton child sex trafficking ring first revealed by “Pizzagate.”
When Trump and Mueller have finished their work, ten thousand sealed indictments (some Q followers claim it’s actually as high as eighteen thousand) will be unleashed, with the Democratic evildoers rounded up, tried by military tribunals, and shipped off to a massively expanded Guantanamo Bay prison, with peace and prosperity to follow.
These Trumpian people really believe this sh#t. Here's a link for further edification:
https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/qanon-the-storm/ It's an interesting read.
And what happened to all the 'relocation camps' Obama built? You'd think Trump would have exposed those right away. Maybe he's saving them to use himself to get rid of liberals........
The great thing about conspiracies is that they're endless and not disprovable (as anything is not). Exciting times indeed.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 21, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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I feel a bowl movement coming on...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 21, 2018 - 08:15pm PT
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'bowl movement'? What's that? Carrying cereal to the table? But, still, I understand.
Yeah Cosmic, the repubs sure were civil and polished while Obama was president. How soon they forget. Sort of reminds me of '1984' and the constant rewriting of history. Soon we too will believe two opposite things can be true at once and the boot heel will grind us forever. Sure glad I still have my NZ passport.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 21, 2018 - 08:15pm PT
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By revolution I mean a Constitutional Reset to overrule the conservative SCOTUS and Congress to eliminate the Influence of money in politics
Never! We'll defend our right to Free Speech (and remember, $$$ = speech) to the bitter end!
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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May 21, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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Cosmiccragsman, where was this article published?
Regardless of way too extensive use of metaphors and hyperboles it has some interesting ideas.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 21, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
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Winemaker...Can i buy a vowel..?
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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May 21, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
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Marshall Kamena is a registered Democrat and was elected mayor of Livermore, CA.. He ran on the democratic ticket as he knew a Bay Area city would never vote for a Republican. He is as conservative as they come.
He's as conservative as they come, yet he's a democrat. Hmmmm....
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/he-fights-trump/
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 21, 2018 - 08:22pm PT
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Ah, the resident troll! Do they pay you by the word or do they have better metrics?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 21, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
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Nope rotting, they're fre! In fact, take one from my last word in the previous sentence; no chaarge!
Comrade Yury, read rincon's comment.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 21, 2018 - 08:28pm PT
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Thanks Winemaker...I owe you on-.....
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 21, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
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Hey rotting, I can't find no 'Sands Motel' in Las Vegas. You pulling our leg(s)?
Seriously, this Trump sh#t in America has just gotten too weird. Is this just a dream?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 21, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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Cosmic gets Snoped again.
The former mayor did not write that piece.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 21, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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The new work is the first comprehensive estimate of the weight of every class of living creature and overturns some long-held assumptions. Bacteria are indeed a major life form – 13% of everything – but plants overshadow everything, representing 82% of all living matter. All other creatures, from insects to fungi, to fish and animals, make up just 5% of the world’s biomass.
Another surprise is that the teeming life revealed in the oceans by the recent BBC television series Blue Planet II turns out to represent just 1% of all biomass. The vast majority of life is land-based and a large chunk – an eighth – is bacteria buried deep below the surface.
“I was shocked to find there wasn’t already a comprehensive, holistic estimate of all the different components of biomass,” said Prof Ron Milo, at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel, who led the work, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
“I would hope this gives people a perspective on the very dominant role that humanity now plays on Earth,” he said, adding that he now chooses to eat less meat due to the huge environmental impact of livestock.
The transformation of the planet by human activity has led scientists to the brink of declaring a new geological era – the Anthropocene. One suggested marker for this change are the bones of the domestic chicken, now ubiquitous across the globe.
The new work reveals that farmed poultry today makes up 70% of all birds on the planet, with just 30% being wild. The picture is even more stark for mammals – 60% of all mammals on Earth are livestock, mostly cattle and pigs, 36% are human and just 4% are wild animals.
“It is pretty staggering,” said Milo. “In wildlife films, we see flocks of birds, of every kind, in vast amounts, and then when we did the analysis we found there are [far] more domesticated birds.”
The destruction of wild habitat for farming, logging and development has resulted in the start of what many scientists consider the sixth mass extinction of life to occur in the Earth’s four billion year history. About half the Earth’s animals are thought to have been lost in the last 50 years.
But comparison of the new estimates with those for the time before humans became farmers and the industrial revolution began reveal the full extent of the huge decline. Just one-sixth of wild mammals, from mice to elephants, remain, surprising even the scientists. In the oceans, three centuries of whaling has left just a fifth of marine mammals in the oceans.
“It is definitely striking, our disproportionate place on Earth,” said Milo. “When I do a puzzle with my daughters, there is usually an elephant next to a giraffe next to a rhino. But if I was trying to give them a more realistic sense of the world, it would be a cow next to a cow next to a cow and then a chicken.”
Despite humanity’s supremacy, in weight terms Homo sapiens is puny. Viruses alone have a combined weight three times that of humans, as do worms. Fish are 12 times greater than people and fungi 200 times as large.
But our impact on the natural world remains immense, said Milo, particularly in what we choose to eat: “Our dietary choices have a vast effect on the habitats of animals, plants and other organisms.”
“I would hope people would take this [work] as part of their world view of how they consume,” he said. ”I have not become vegetarian, but I do take the environmental impact into my decision making, so it helps me think, do I want to choose beef or poultry or use tofu instead?”
The researchers calculated the biomass estimates using data from hundreds of studies, which often used modern techniques, such as satellite remote sensing that can scan great areas, and gene sequencing that can unravel the myriad organisms in the microscopic world.
They started by assessing the biomass of a class of organisms and then they determined which environments such life could live in across the world to create a global total. They used carbon as the key measure and found all life contains 550bn tonnes of the element. The researchers acknowledge that substantial uncertainties remain in particular estimates, especially for bacteria deep underground, but say the work presents a useful overview.
Paul Falkowski, at Rutgers University in the US and not part of the research team, said: “The study is, to my knowledge, the first comprehensive analysis of the biomass distribution of all organisms – including viruses – on Earth.”
“There are two major takeaways from this paper,” he said. “First, humans are extremely efficient in exploiting natural resources. Humans have culled, and in some cases eradicated, wild mammals for food or pleasure in virtually all continents. Second, the biomass of terrestrial plants overwhelmingly dominates on a global scale – and most of that biomass is in the form of wood.”
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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May 21, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
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I cringe in a way when I ask this, but Cosmic how old is the planet ?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 21, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
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Winemaker...Sands is a fake address...I did that for Locker since he was always posting pics of my large head buried in the sand...rj
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 21, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
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Cosmic! As usual, you are posting another right-wing lie, per your post about the mayor of Livermore CA!
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/he-fights-trump/
First off, although Dr. Marshall Kamena (an optometrist) did serve as the mayor of Livermore, California, from November 2001 to November 2011, he does not currently hold that office: that position is now occupied by John Marchand. (It’s also unlikely Dr. Kamena “ran as a Democrat,” as the application process for the office of mayor instructs candidates to submit “nonpartisan qualifying papers.”)
More important, though, is that Dr. Kamena is not the author of the article referenced above. That opinion piece was penned by Evan Sayet and published (under the title “He Fights”) on the Townhall web site on 13 July 2017.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 21, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
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Hey, I had a six pack of Moosedrool beer a few weeks ago. Any relation? I suspect a story......
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 21, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
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how do you window wash a snowflake?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 04:00am PT
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I just do not see anything positive.
Spend the $10/mo I do following @TheSpyBrief on Twitter, or at least follow @TeaPain, @Countercheckist and pay attention to some of those they RT.
You may not see sunshine and roses positive, but you will see what reality looks like without the distortion of Fox News and similar. This is a key point which STILL is holding people's thinking process in a vise. People actually believe that the news stories and tweets and opinion pieces and interview statements being made by them are "our reality."
If you hear a damned talking point repeated ad nauseum - ANY talking point - view it as part of a disinformation campaign. It probably is. THINK.FOR.YOURSELF.
They are not. They are the political equivalent to funhouse mirrors.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 04:15am PT
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And Cosmic - WTF?
When one posts an item they are copy/pasting, it's kind of a thing to attribute the source, or at the least somehow indicate the words are not our own.
That's one thing, but more importantly - NOW, can you let the smallest sliver of critical thinking shine on what you are clicking on, or watching and reading on "news outlets," about this political situation? At least even CONSIDER the possibility you are not the only one pulling manips?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 22, 2018 - 05:30am PT
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Happiegrrrl2, who has a spare $10/month? And I do not Tweet, I do not Twitter, and I do not follow anything on Twitter. But thanks for the advice.
As for the window cleaner, he may be good at cleaning people's windows, but it seems his own windows are a bit foggy. Perhaps he should look closer to home.
I am having fun, but then I think about the topic(s), and the fun disappears. It is all well and fine to joke about the mess/morass, but then the reality of the Trump/GOP shitstorm hits, and the Dems, the only other viable "opposition", run around like headless chickens.
As for the media, of which I used to be part of, they helped to elect Trump, even the so-called liberal press, of which Trump views as enemies of the State. He should thank them for giving him so much page space and air time and exposure, not that I want to see his exposure, I'll let ladies of the night do that.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 05:43am PT
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Patrick, I doubt that I am in a position with more expendable cash than you are, but I made a choice, when Schindler went to his pay platform, to use $10/mo toward staying with him, since he had been proven to be accurate for months previous. Everything that has come out about Trumpco in the MSM is old news to me, because I followed him. From 3 days to 3 weeks to 3 months old.
We make our choices - two cheap bottles of wine sacrificed each month would cover the cost.
Or, get the lite version for free by following @20Committee
As for "I don't Tweet," - again, your choice. I'm just offering what seems to me a very authorative voice for anyone looking for information.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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May 22, 2018 - 05:57am PT
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I'm trying to get my head around that biomass survey synopsis posted by zbrown. It's truly staggering!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 22, 2018 - 07:58am PT
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Hey, Happie, who says I buy cheap wine? Inexpensive maybe, but not cheap plonk.
Lighten up.
EDIT
And my earlier attempt at the differences of species (cat and dog, Betty and Aggie) they are best of friends now, frolicking together in the sun (yes, Ireland does get some sun).
Point is, different species, different views, yet can we not all frolick in the sun, on good rock?
Despite our differences?
That said, would I climb with Donald Trump? Are you effing crazy to even think of that?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 22, 2018 - 08:26am PT
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Climb? He can't even walk 200 yards. Plus belaying that mass would be problematic, you couldn't trust him at the other end, and you'd need at least a 12mm rope.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 22, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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Kingtut, trump is a mean SOB. Too mean to die anytime soon.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 22, 2018 - 08:51am PT
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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Hey, Happie, who says I buy cheap wine? Inexpensive maybe, but not cheap plonk.
I didn't say you bought cheap wine. What I inferred was that, just like all people who really are not without choice when it comes to eating and having shelter, you could choose to spend that $10/mo on the subscription I mentioned by making a rather small sacrifice.
I've paid for The Spy Brief since he started it, which was January or February this year. As the 15th approaches each month, which is when my subscription comes due, you bet I am aware of it and have the option to cancel and use the $10 elsewhere. Now that I am back to my seasonal job, that decision isn't difficult to make, but I can tell you that when I was spending my time driving between the library and the 2 miles to Walmart for 8 days on my way east this spring, waiting for enough an influx of cash to hop to the next stop, that choice felt pretty hefty.
Yet I did it.... one or two bottles of wine a month would have gone unnoticed by me - even in my alcoholic bottom - as I am pretty certain would be the same case for you. Therefore, I posit that it's not the $10/month that stops you from seeking a more "positive" reference point to view these current events from.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 22, 2018 - 08:59am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 22, 2018 - 09:06am PT
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^^^^
Whiner and Chief
He can't even take the press playing back his very words
What winning has happened?
or are you saying that winning will start as soon as Mueller indicts him?
Because that would be a great win for our Country
The Resistance: bolding standing up against Fascism, just like the resistance to Hitler
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 22, 2018 - 09:14am PT
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EdwardT:
Implying, claiming or even thinking that Trump isn't a huge whiner is a losing argument. Don't make yourself look like a fool by making it.
He may have some virtues (I haven't seen any yet), but Trump is about the snowflakest snowflake there is.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 22, 2018 - 10:05am PT
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Trump's bold leadership on every issue, "We'll see what happens"
Such a strong leader, such a strong decision maker
"we'll see what happens" says it all
He doesn't know sh#t, and has his swamp creatures tell him what he's supposed to do, which will turn out to be the exact opposite of the best decision to make
What a tool he is
to the billionaires, to the Koch Bros, to the polluters, to the Christian Right, to the white supremacists, to Russia, Saudi, Israel, idiot conspiracy loons, Hannity, etc
Manchurian Candidate to the stars
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 22, 2018 - 10:31am PT
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Poor little Trump voters, all us mean liberals saying mean things to them
Here's Why So Many Right Wingers Think of Themselves as Victims
Hollywood is out to get them. The media is out to get them. And any American who doesn’t see things their way are part of the problem.
https://www.alternet.org/heres-why-so-many-right-wingers-think-themselves-victims
The lack of proper respect comes down to being told they’re wrong, or—like my coworker—freaking out over nothing. Whether it be scientists, Hollywood, the media, or Democrats, calling stupid ideas stupid has somehow become “elitist” and evidence of bias. It’s one of the bitterest ironies that the people who bitch and moan about political correctness and wear shirts saying** “f*#k your feelings”** are the ones whining about respect whenever a TV show or movie has a story which steps on their toes, or a science article actually advocates science.
So what gives? Where does this victim mentality come from?
There are poor white people out there who care more about Colin Kaepernick’s posture in pre-game than their black neighbors who can’t go to a store or get stopped by police without being harassed. There's an entire swath of America that’s probably more outraged by two women or two men showing affection on television, and how that might “influence” their children, than whether the schools those children attend are fully funded. And we are surrounded by MAGA idiots who covet the title “American” while defiling everything the term stands for.
In essence, this is the thinking of a bully. Hollywood is out to get them. The media is out to get them. And any American who doesn’t see things their way are part of the problem.
And to this end, to point this out, to speak the truth, to call an as#@&%e an as#@&%e, is the height of disrespect in some people’s eyes. The same pricks who can dish it out, calling human beings “animals” or spread disinformation and conspiracy theories about pizza parlor pedophile rings, CAN NOT take it when they’re called on their sh#t. Then we’re disrespectful.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 22, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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Tired of all that winning yet?
Harley-Davidson took its tax cut, closed a factory, and rewarded shareholders
The motorcycle maker in January told Kansas City workers it would close a plant there. Days later, it announced a nearly $700 million stock buyback plan.
Just over a month after Trump signed the tax cuts into law, the Kansas City closure was announced. Workers found out when they arrived at the plant that morning: They were kept in the hallway, informed that the factory would be shut, and sent home for the rest of the day without pay. The union had no advance warning, said Greg Tate, a staff representative for the United Steelworkers District 11, which represents about 30 percent of the Harley-Davidson plant’s workers. (Harley-Davidson and the two unions that represent most of its production employees last year terminated their 22-year partnership agreement.) vox
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 22, 2018 - 10:59am PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
May 21, 2018 - 08:35am PT
I am a moderate
Most of your political posts involve bashing Trump, Trump supporters and/or conservatives, in general
Rarely, do you serve up the same for liberals.
Yea, you're a moderate. Sure thing, sport.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 22, 2018 - 11:13am PT
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I'm trying to get my head around that biomass survey synopsis posted by zbrown. It's truly staggering!
By the year 2050, collaborative research (University of Auckland, University of Melbourne, Yokohama University, Cal Tech, Stanford University and University of Edinburgh) believes that the plastics in the oceans will outweigh the marine life.
I think that it will be sooner that 2050.
Cue some window cleaner digging up photos of me and altering them. I await.
Good ole' window cleaner, he could not resist, he is like a trained dog, except he still pees on the floor.
Happie, lighten up I was being a bit flippant.
EdwardT, you can have some thoughtful posts, stick to that. Your meme post betrays you.
As for Trump, he will not be impeached, but he may yet fall on his own sword (you know, the little one).
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 22, 2018 - 11:47am PT
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And talk about whingeing.
Okay, I am contributing to the liberal echo, big deal. Perhaps one reason some of us proles, us little people, whine is that it is some little comfort to be had. But The Donald, the so-called billionaire (I bet he is by now, since taking office), the grab man, I mean great man, the leader, he whines all the time with his tweets. Talk about a sensitive snowflake.
Who is the biggest whiner in the past year or so? Donald, hands down, even small hands down. Look at his tweets. Poor soul. The world is against him. Maybe if he shot somebody on Fifth Avenue, he'd get some sympathy.
Seriously, how can some of you Trump supporters like the guy. There must be better alternatives to conservatives than this buffoon.
The liberals are leaderless, like chickens with their heads cut off, the conservatives are led by a chicken that never had a head (but some bone spurs, does that count?)
I am having fun, my work is done for the day, and a beautiful day it is, the sun is shining (even in Ireland), and in turns I take this thread seriously, and on the other hand, a fun diversion. At the end of the day I see very little difference in the liberal posts and the conservative posts.
Mindsets, probably mine too.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
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a beautiful day it is, the sun is shining (even in Ireland), and in turns I take this thread seriously
First mistake .....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 22, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
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Yeah Werner, I agree with you on that.
Actually, your comment sort of made my evening. Thank you. I am still laughing.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 22, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
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There's an entire swath of America that’s probably more outraged by two women or two men showing affection on television, and how that might “influence” their children, than whether the schools those children attend are fully funded. And we are surrounded by MAGA idiots who covet the title “American” while defiling everything the term stands for.
In essence, this is the thinking of a bully. Hollywood is out to get them. The media is out to get them. And any American who doesn’t see things their way are part of the problem.
For a lot of them, I think they are far more furious about two women or two men showing affection on television than they would ever be about how crappy the schools for those people's kids are.
And Hollywood is absolutely out to get them. I hope Hollywood succeeds. That one day they won't be so homophobic is possible. But I don't ever expect them to give a sh#t about the education of poor kids.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
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Lock him up . . . . up . . . . up . . . . up . . . . up
Hey! This thread IS an echo chamber.
Trump is a very simplistic animal and he's easy to understand. Almost everything he says is false and misleading. Nothing he says can be trusted to be the truth.
When Trump says something (e.g., "Melanie is feeling well") the first response should be to consider it to be a lie. Only then should it, possibly, be investigated to see if it is the truth.
It is not an exaggeration to say that ANYTHING Trump says must be considered false, until proven otherwise. Trump is the exact opposite of what a good leader should be.
Trump is the anti-role model. Today's youth will be tomorrow's leaders, and parents should duct-tape the eyes and ears of their children until Trump is gone.
Trustworthiness, honesty and telling the truth is the basic cornerstone of any civil society. When that is gone, civil society is gone.
One guy lying and cheating the rest of a group can get away with it for a short time. If the rest of the group decides that they, too, should lie and cheat, the group will no longer exist as a group.
If you put 100 Ponzi schemers into a room, nothing will happen. 100 matches, and no candles, equals some brief flashes of light, and then darkness.
Duct tape = climbing related, per Chris Mac's wonderful book about Big Wall climbing in Yosemite Valley.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2018 - 12:32pm PT
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Here's the real animal.
Roger Stone openly boasts that he is a political animal. And, he will very likely wind up in a cage, like an animal.
Unlike the Kremlin propaganda above, this picture of Roger Stone was not photoshopped.
EDIT:
HA!
I applied a little propagandacide, and the nefarious post that was previously just above this one disappeared, like magic. #MAGA
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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May 22, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
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still a swamp. always will be...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 03:11pm PT
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A longtime business associate of President Trump’s personal attorney Michael Cohen has reportedly agreed to cooperate with government prosecutors as part of a plea deal.
The New York Times reported on Tuesday that Evgeny Freidman agreed to cooperate with state and federal prosecutors, potentially raising pressure on Cohen to assist in the special counsel investigation into Russia's 2016 election meddling.
In return, Freidman got five years of probation for pleading guilty Tuesday to a single count of evading $50,000 worth of taxes. Freidman, who was reportedly disbarred earlier this month, had faced four counts of criminal tax fraud and one of grand larceny, each carrying a possible sentence of up to 25 years.
Freidman, a Russian immigrant nicknamed the "Taxi King," has been partners with Cohen in the taxi business for years, the Times reported.
Cohen is reportedly under investigation for bank fraud and campaign finance law violations. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/388881-cohens-business-partner-to-cooperate-with-prosecutors-as-part-of-plea-deal
According to Wikipedia, not only in the taxi business, but the owner/operator of NYC's largest taxi company.
And - surprise - he's Russian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Freidman
Looks like Cohen will be going for a ride.....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 22, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
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Obummer Administration SPYING on the Trump Campaign? Yep. Fukkin Libtard Democrats and their sneaky tactics.
Pablum never tasted so good.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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What was that term I mentioned a page or so back? Hmmm...critical thinking.
The other perspective on "they spied on me" whine is that some of those associated with Trumpco(yup - more than one), upon realizing there was serious malfeasance going down, went to the appropriate people and let them know. INSIDERS of the Trump campaign went TO the FBI.
Like actual patriots, you know.
Not the loyal mafia-wannabes that Trump demands of his hangers-on.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 22, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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Geez Cosmic, if the FBI/Obama were so determined to take Trump down why didn't they actually, in real life, release stuff about the Ruskies to do so? Why didn't Obama get the word out? Instead the FBI shot Clinton in the ass and cost her the election. Seriously, how do you explain that? How soon we forget...... when it's convenient.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 22, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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You could never make this up.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 22, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
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One way to get Tarrump out of the white house is to place a greased donut pile on the front lawn...
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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May 22, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
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Happiegrrrl2:
Spend the $10/mo I do following @TheSpyBrief on Twitter ..
Happiegrrrl2, could you please clarify my confusion.
How do you pay for Twitter?
I had a perception that Twitter was free.
How "Espionage and national security" can help you to better understand internal socio-economical-political situation in the US?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 22, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
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Comrade Yury, just go away. Or prove your bona fides by telling us how to tie a Bruskner knot and what a leaper rappel is. Bet you can't.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 22, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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if the FBI/Obama were so determined to take Trump down why didn't they actually, in real life, release stuff about the Ruskies to do so? Why didn't Obama get the word out? Instead the FBI shot Clinton in the ass and cost her the election. Seriously, how do you explain that? How soon we forget...... when it's convenient.
It's all been explained before.
"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth."
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 22, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
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Yury - It is a premium channel which links in via Twitter. I don't know technically how that works, but the feed is basically a private twitter feed.
The answer to your other question - I have no desire to even consider formulating.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 22, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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Wanna smoke a bowel yury ?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 22, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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At this point, if you're a defender of Trump, you are Trump.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 22, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
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At this point, if you're a defender of Trump, you are Trump.
That happened back when the grab 'em by the pussy tape leaked. Seriously, that tape showed how he talked and what he thought when he believed he was in private. I've yucked it up with plenty of guys and said things much cruder, but the misogyny and entitlement he displayed in that tape was revolting. If someone was willing to hold their nose and still support that guy a that point it makes me question what's more important to them, good vs. evil, or us vs. them.
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Br3tt
climber
Los Angeles
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May 22, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
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Maybe people support(ed) him because they believe in his policies and the way the country would be governed with him as President, as opposed to the other choice (whether you do or not)?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 23, 2018 - 01:10am PT
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Mueller has all the cause and license he needs to turn the last thirty years of trump's financial life completely inside-out. He also has some of the top white-collar crime, organized crime, financial crimes, and cybercrime prosecutors on his team as well as the nation's top expert on executive privilege. Trump could attempt to cut Mueller off his leg but Mueller's severed head would still be chowing down on him for years to come.
Trump is already so completely f*#ked it's stupid and at this point just a matter of when.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 01:30am PT
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Trump is like a child with chocolate all over his face, denying that he ate the cake.
It would be humorous, if he didn't have his finger on The Button..
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 23, 2018 - 04:15am PT
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Mueller has all the cause and license he needs to turn the last thirty years of trump's financial life completely inside-out.
Or, 130 years, if you believe the ex WH physician. Remember THAT one?
I truly do feel bad for those who had hope that Donald Trump would be the one whose tailcoat ride would manifest the idealistic US they envision. Most of them were NOT of the belief that black people would be thrown out of "the many, many, GREAT jobs!" that would become available, nor that women would be held in check with "God's work," the enslavement of child-bearing(yes, I am aware that statement will blow some fundamentalist gaskets). Nor that he was really as bad as was being touted by "the left."
They believed in the abundance of America, and that DT was in a position to bring about fair play.
He was not. I am sorry, for those folks, that their Great White(as in "pure") Hope is a Great White(as in "supremicist) Hoax.
But Donald Trump is what he is, and to hold on to the fantasy any longer is....well, it certainly is.
But for those who believe he is their man DESPITE what they understand to be truth..... I don't even know what to say.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 23, 2018 - 04:22am PT
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Even with all the crap our POTUS has served up, the Dems are still pissing away their advantage.
Too stupid to get out of their own way.
A Reuters poll this week gave the GOP a 1.4 percentage-point lead over Democrats on a generic ballot. When asked if the midterm elections were to be held that day—Reuters conducted the poll on May 17—38.1 percent of respondents said they would vote for the Republican candidate in their district, as opposed to the 36.7 percent who said they'd cast their ballot for the Democratic one.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 23, 2018 - 06:44am PT
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Republicans are now going to be able to view intelligence regarding the so-called planted campaign spy...Like the thread title says...Trump is cornered , desperate...He's the little boy that cried wolf...Trumps claim that Obama wire tapped him was a totally bogus lie and i bet his latest claim is the same...Hopefully it backfires like his other cheap stunts...Sad that the repubs are stupid enough to support this corrupt clown...Bozo that is...
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 23, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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That happened back when the grab 'em by the pussy tape leaked. Seriously, that tape showed how he talked and what he thought when he believed he was in private. I've yucked it up with plenty of guys and said things much cruder, but the misogyny and entitlement he displayed in that tape was revolting. If someone was willing to hold their nose and still support that guy a that point it makes me question what's more important to them, good vs. evil, or us vs. them.
So I guess you're 'revolted' by your own comments as well? That's twisted.
Trump will win again in 2020. Deal with it.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 23, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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you ever been to the Double Down, pud?
do you find Donnie to be a good role model for children, pud? do you think Donnie lies at all?
Unity party 2020, sucka! Hickenlooper-Kasich
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 23, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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Even with all the crap our POTUS has served up, the Dems are still pissing away their advantage. Yep. I hear nothing, nothing from Dem 'leaders' about this sh#t storm. The Repubs have the noise machine figured out; time for the Dems to make some noise. Getting out the vote will be critical but I doubt there's a plan.
Guess we're all bozos on this bus.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 23, 2018 - 07:59am PT
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When asked if the midterm elections were to be held that day...
Unfortunately for the GOP, the midterms are still an endless number of trump escapades, missteps and lies away.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 08:15am PT
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Guess we're all bozos on this bus.
There is wisdom in that statement.
While the hippies were attempting to create a better way to live, the greedheads moved right in, and took advantage of a lack of vigilance.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 08:15am PT
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I personally believe in the long term benefit for our society of democratic platform positions more than republican positions. I think Trump as a human being has demeaned the office of President of the United States of America. as Steve Bannon said early on, his cabinet choices have been made to deconstruct the agencies they represent. My opinion reflects what a lot of people think- but clearly not all or even a large majority?- that it is a disaster.
All that said, I am gravely disappointed in the lack of leadership and unity and messaging in the Democratic Party. Instead of rising up with a clear vision for our future, there is a whole lot of nothing, and playing follow-the-leader with Trumpian politics of pointing out the problems of the enemy instead of telling people what you would do if you were elected. Heck even Trump has done better in terms of giving people a vision- even if it is one that divides and weakens our society.
Acquiring a lot of money is a prerequisite to getting publicity and winning an election; candidates who take the easier path of corporate sponsorship are hobbled from following the ideals of the Democratic Party (at least on the issues of campaign finance reform, corporate taxation, financial regulations), which might be why we hear so little about messaging from the mainstream party these days.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 23, 2018 - 08:27am PT
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Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push it hard enough it WILL fall over.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 23, 2018 - 08:44am PT
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There is a reason you don't hear the Democratic Party Platform, the MSN does not report it.
They MSN reports sensationalism, which the Dems do not offer being the party of moderation and sensible governing
The Democratic Party is strong and has a message
The party has won most elections since 2016
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform
Raise Incomes and Restore Economic Security for the Middle Class
□ Raising Workers’ Wages
□ Protecting Workers’ Fundamental Rights
□ Supporting Working Families
□ Helping More Workers Share in Near-Record Corporate Profits
□ Expanding Access to Affordable Housing and Homeownership
□ Protecting and Expanding Social Security
□ Ensuring a Secure and Dignified Retirement
□ Revitalizing Our Nation’s Postal Service
□
Create Good-Paying Jobs
□ Building 21st Century Infrastructure
□ Fostering a Manufacturing Renaissance
□ Creating Good-Paying Clean Energy Jobs
□ Pursuing Our Innovation Agenda: Science, Research, Education, and Technology
□ Supporting America’s Small Businesses
□ Creating Jobs for America’s Young People
□
Fight for Economic Fairness and Against Inequality
□ Reining in Wall Street and Fixing our Financial System
□ Promoting Competition by Stopping Corporate Concentration
□ Making the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes
□ Promoting Trade That is Fair and Benefits American Workers
□
Bring Americans Together and Remove Barriers to Opportunities
□ Ending Systemic Racism
□ Closing the Racial Wealth Gap
□ Reforming our Criminal Justice System
□ Fixing our Broken Immigration System
□ Guaranteeing Civil Rights
□ Guaranteeing Women’s Rights
□ Guaranteeing Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights
□ Guaranteeing Rights for People with Disabilities
□ Respecting Faith and Service
□ Investing in Rural America
□ Ending Poverty and Investing in Communities Left Behind
□ Building Strong Cities and Metro Areas
□ Promoting Arts and Culture
□ Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations
□ Fighting for the People of Puerto Rico
□ Honoring the People of the Territories
□
Protect Voting Rights, Fix Our Campaign Finance System, and Restore Our Democracy
□ Protecting Voting Rights
□ Fixing Our Broken Campaign Finance System
□ Appointing Judges
□ Securing Statehood for Washington, DC
□ Strengthening Management of Federal Government
□
Combat Climate Change, Build a Clean Energy Economy, and Secure Environmental Justice
□ Building a Clean Energy Economy
□ Securing Environmental and Climate Justice
□ Protecting Our Public Lands and Waters
□
Provide Quality and Affordable Education
□ Making Debt-Free College a Reality
□ Providing Relief from Crushing Student Debt
□ Supporting Historically Black Colleges and Universities and Minority-Serving Institutions
□ Cracking Down on Predatory For-Profit Schools
□ Guaranteeing Universal Preschool and Good Schools for Every Child
□
Ensure the Health and Safety of All Americans
□ Securing Universal Health Care
□ Supporting Community Health Centers
□ Reducing Prescription Drug Costs
□ Enabling Cutting-Edge Medical Research
□ Combating Drug and Alcohol Addiction
□ Treating Mental Health
□ Supporting Those Living with Autism and their Families
□ Securing Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice
□ Ensuring Long-Term Care, Services, and Supports
□ Protecting and Promoting Public Health
□ Ending Violence Against Women
□ Preventing Gun Violence
□
Principled Leadership
□
Support Our Troops and Keep Faith with Our Veterans
□ Defense Spending
□ Veterans and Service Members
□ Military Families
□ A Strong Military
□
Confront Global Threats
□ Terrorism
□ Syria
□ Afghanistan
□ Iran
□ North Korea
□ Russia
□ Cybersecurity and Online Privacy
□ Non-Proliferation of Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological Weapons
□ Global Climate Leadership
□
Protect Our Values
□ Women and Girls
□ Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender People
□ Trafficking and Modern Slavery
□ Young People
□ Religious Minorities
□ Refugees
□ Civil Society
□ Anti-Corruption
□ Torture
□ Closing Guantánamo Bay
□ Development Assistance
□ Global Health
□ HIV and AIDS
□ International Labor
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 23, 2018 - 08:53am PT
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My opinion reflects what a lot of people think- but clearly not all or even a large majority?- that it is a disaster. I disagree. I believe that there is a large majority that agrees with you.
All that said, I am gravely disappointed in the lack of leadership and unity and messaging in the Democratic Party.
I agree. There doesn't seem tobe anyone from the democratic party who consistently contradicts what trump says.
I don't even see anyone that has stepped up as a presidential candidate.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 23, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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Far too soon to worry about 2020.
As far as messaging, the party seems to be slowly embracing an anti-corruption theme. Not a bad message since it worked for them in 2006 at the height of Abramoff, and this sh#t is 1000x worse.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 09:22am PT
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Far too soon to worry about 2020.
As far as messaging, the party seems to be slowly embracing an anti-corruption theme. Not a bad message since it worked for them in 2006 at the height of Abramoff, and this sh#t is 1000x worse.
^^^
This is it in a nutshell.
Political events/themes rarely develop all that fast. As a random example (yeah, random) look how long all the events that made up Watergate took.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 10:14am PT
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Premise: Trump says the Mueller investigation is a witch hunt
Premise: Mueller says Trump is a subject of his investigation
Conclusion: Trump is a witch
Ta-da!
Every week the witch hunt is more exposed to the public as being a valid investigation.
This is, truly, an astonishing state of affairs. It smacks of the impending fall of America, and it's end as one of the great civilizations in history.
Premise: sane people do not knowingly and willfully subject themselves to a high level of public scrutiny if they are culpable of numerous crimes.
Premise: Trump and his henchmen have knowingly and willfully subjected themselves to a high level of public scrutiny.
Premise: numerous crimes by Trump and his henchmen have been discovered, and continue to be discovered.
Conclusion: Trump and his henchmen are insane.
It is instructive to remember that Al Capone, the gangster, favored the press, and enjoyed having a high level of public scrutiny. He was released from Alcatraz prison when his syphilis rendered him incapable of posing a threat to society.
Trump is on the record as stating that his "personal Vietnam" was being a promiscuous degenerate.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 23, 2018 - 10:28am PT
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45 = illegitimate President: frmr DNI Clapper says Russia gave Trump the WIN in 2016 election!
former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper clearly laid out that Russia gave Trump the win in 2016! Essentially he talked about what he wrote in his new book Facts and Fears:
“Of course the Russian efforts affected the outcome. Surprising even themselves, they swung the election to a Trump win. To conclude otherwise stretches logic, common sense, and credulity to the breaking point. Less than eighty thousand votes in three key states swung the election. I have no doubt that more votes than that were influenced by this massive effort by the Russians.”
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 23, 2018 - 10:33am PT
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President Obama - October 2016
But the larger point I want to emphasize here is that there is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even — you could even rig America’s elections, in part, because they are so decentralized and the numbers of votes involved.
There is no evidence that that has happened in the past or that there are instances in which that will happen this time. And so I’d invite Mr. Trump to stop whining and go try to make his case to get votes.
* Edited for accuracy.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 23, 2018 - 10:56am PT
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Edward T - A bit of research on that meme might leave you embarrassed. But just keep on keeping on, with the deza your *news* sources are pouring down your gullet.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 23, 2018 - 11:00am PT
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Meanwhile:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44215656
Donald Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, received a secret payment of at least $400,000 (Ł300,000) to fix talks between the Ukrainian president and President Trump, according to sources in Kiev close to those involved.
The payment was arranged by intermediaries acting for Ukraine's leader, Petro Poroshenko, the sources said, though Mr Cohen was not registered as a representative of Ukraine as required by US law.
Mr Cohen denies the allegation.
The meeting at the White House was last June. Shortly after the Ukrainian president returned home, his country's anti-corruption agency stopped its investigation into Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Robert Mueller is aware of that statement.
He is not dissuaded from pursuing his mandate.
No amount of absurd propaganda is going to make the investigation go away.
Facts and reality will prevail over lies and deceit.
Michael Cohen's henchman pleaded out and is cooperating with prosecutors.
Michael Cohen says he would jump out of a building before he would turn and bite his master. He might not get the chance to jump. His master might have him put down.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 11:05am PT
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Craig,
Calling Trump "illegitimate" is inaccurate and it sounds whiney.
He was sworn in as president and he is the president (yours and mine).
He's a lying, corrupt piece of crap, but he is the legitimate president, made so by the normal, legitimate processes of our political system.
EDIT:
Happiegirl, I love your response to EdwardT. He'll have to figure out what's true and not by himself (if he ever manages to open his mind so that truth can penetrate).
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 23, 2018 - 11:11am PT
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It was the title of the story I posted
Sounds Whiney??? Talk to Clapper
He is illegitimate if he broke the law to win
If he would have lost if he had not broke the law, then he is illegitimate
"I Love WikiLeaks"
This was an unlawful action
promoting stolen e-mails
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 23, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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So I guess you're 'revolted' by your own comments as well? That's twisted.
Trump will win again in 2020. Deal with it.
My comments weren't misogynist and didn't indicate I felt entitled to assault women because of my position. The types of crude humor me and my friends engaged in didn't include sexual assault. That's the point I was trying to make, sorry if it went past you. And Trump wasn't even talking to a friend, he was bragging to a TV host.
I think my comments hit you close to home. You are willing to support someone that morally corrupt because he enacts policies you agree with. You have to live with that.
I seriously doubt Trump will win again. He barely squeaked by, lost the popular vote, and was facing a flawed candidate. Along with Comey reopening the email investigation weeks before the vote, and timed series of leaks of Hillary's emails by Russia. Of course he could win again, there's enough people who believe his constant lies and are willing to overlook his morally corrupt ways. And as always a lot of it will come down to the economy, which the president only has minor influence on. The Republicans are doing everything the can to extend the current expansion, (including adding $1T to the debt), but we are due for a correction, it's just a matter of when it hits.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 23, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
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Listened to Rush Limbaugh this morning on the way downtown. You would not believe the incredible tale he is weaving. Gobsmackingly stupid and amazing that his ignorant listeners eat it up. Basically the story is that the Russians have infiltrated churches and higher education, bunch of leftists, that is why the FBI and CIA recruit from Ivy League schools, so the CIA and FBI are filled with Commies. The FBI and CIa ginned up this controversy to hurt Trump. The guys pleading guilty are plants, every adverse fact is a carefully coordinated scheme. Kinda like Obamas birth announcement in the local Hawaiian papers.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 23, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
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^^^The weird nonsense trump and his sycophants heap on the gullible masses is mind boggling. ^^^
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Trump
climber
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May 23, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
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Unfortunately for the GOP, the midterms are still an endless number of trump escapades, missteps and lies away.
According to 538, a year ago my approval was at 38.8, and today it’s at 42.2. Sorry, unfortunate for who?
Believe it if you need it, if you don’t just make something up. Works for me. You too?
My lies have been bad for the GOP?! Yea those repubs would have been a lot better off with Hillary as potus. You guys and your self mind bending optimism are inspiring for a liar like me.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 23, 2018 - 12:25pm PT
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Instead of rising up with a clear vision for our future, there is a whole lot of nothing, and playing follow-the-leader with Trumpian politics of pointing out the problems of the enemy instead of telling people what you would do if you were elected.
Bernie's campaign in a nutshell.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 23, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
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Wow cosmic, I knew you were highly partisan but didn't know you were racist. I guess I hope you are just ignorant.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 23, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
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How do you define "libtard," Cosmic? And what is it that makes them so abhorrent in your view?
I can certainly understand your being annoyed and even angry at those on this thread who say crass things to you personally, but I doubt that is a defining factor in being a "libtard."
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 23, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
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Cosmic glad to hear it. But posting that racist Obama meme makes you appear like one.
The use of Libtard is a identifier of a someone who is ignorant or just an ass. Using retard is now known as a hurtful way to marginalize mentally challenged people. Like the N word. Combining it with liberal is just a way to try to hurt them but just makes the user appear like an ass.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 23, 2018 - 01:53pm PT
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Definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results
Apparently, Conservative philosophy can be called insanity
What does it mean to do the same thing over and over and expect different outcomes? It means being a conservative. Across history and across cultures, conservatism always winds up in the same place: violence, xenophobia, cultural division, inequality, societal breakdown, oligarchy, kleptocracy, eroding values, subjugation of truth, concentration of power.
Pick a society or culture, conservatism always serves the interests of a few at the expense of the general populace, always betrays the people in favor of the powerful. By being a force to preserve the past, conservatism may sound benign and high-minded — tradition, values, merit. The questions to always be asked, however, are these:
Whose tradition?
What values?
How is merit to be defined?
For the issue of conservatism is always the same: someone is in the position of choosing these things, excluding others — conservatism is, ironically but not, elitist. Conservatism purports to favor the marketplace of ideas, a sort of intellectual capitalism, but as in all forms of capitalism favored by conservatives they try to rig the game. Exclude certain voters, limit rights, control media — because conservatism’s principle is for a powerful few to select certain deserving ideas over undeserving ideas.
As a backward-looking movement, conservatism chooses what tradition, what values, what merit matters. Orwell’s observation that who controls the past controls the future identifies the ultimate conservative notion. MY version of tradition, MY version of values, MY version of merit, claiming universality for values that are strictly sectarian.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/18/1765271/-This-is-what-comes-of-conservatism-because-it-is-ALWAYS-is-what-comes-of-conservatism
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Trump
climber
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May 23, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
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Oh hey Jared Kushner just got his permanent security clearance after all, didn’t he? Oh never mind, wrong storyline for our favorite story.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 23, 2018 - 01:58pm PT
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But posting that racist Obama meme makes you appear like one.
How is that worse than the malicious Trump photos we see week in, week out?
Thanks to all the Trump haters, bringing their worst, there's no longer a standard of decency when it comes to mocking the POTUS.
It will be open season on the next Democrat President.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 23, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
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These anachronisms are called out as hypocrisy, but hypocrisy misses the point. It’s not hypocritical, it’s conservative — that is what conservatism does, it’s what conservatism has always done.
Conservatism rises and always falls. It rises on the populism of inclusion in the club, the power to choose who is deserving and undeserving. It is always corrupt, because it always depends on a rigged game. If a conservative is decrying a rigged game, it is because they either didn’t get to do the rigging or they are playing their subjects’ fears of being victims of getting rigged out of what they think they deserve.
The assertions of conservatism always depend on fallacy:
•Ad hominem — abuse of the opponent.
•Ad baculum — might makes right, the wealthy are the job creators, the backbone of America
•Ad populum — “The American people demand...”, “everyone is saying I deserve the Nobel Prize”
•Ignoratio elenchii — Bill Clinton had an affair. Liberals lack morality.
•Fallacy of accident — what was true in one case proves a generalization. One immigrant in one place is accused of murder, therefore immigrants are murderers and immigration is a threat to society.
•Fallacy of converse accident — putting even limited gun laws in place will lead to all guns being confiscated.
(From reader libre nos)
•Appeal to authority: The Bible says … the Founders … original interpretation … Adam Smith. WTF, even Laffer.
•Appeal to antiquity: “We've always done it this way.” “Surely , if there was something wrong we would have fixed it by now.”
•Circular reasoning: The unrestricted free market is the best economic system, because it works better than any other system in a republic, which is the best political system, because it’s compatible with the unrestricted free market.
•Petitio principii (begging the question, unjustified assumptions): Conservative social values are best, because they’re based on a strong nuclear family with well-defined gender roles.
What can one say about conservatism when it depends entirely on fallacy?
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Trump
climber
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May 23, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
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wonder if the good people in the citys would starve them out or just go ‘whatever’
From this thread, seems like the good people in the citys have been mostly admiring themselves for being the good people and vilifying the other half of the people with different lives and values and political perspectives for being bad. But hey at least the good people aren’t still discriminating goodness based on skin color!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 23, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
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I don't agree with posting memes like the examples you showed, Cosmic.
However, it does seem to me that there was plenty of that aimed at Obama and his family. Here's a Google search of such images.
https://www.google.com/search?q=racist+obama+memes&client=firefox-b-1-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW6cv-45zbAhXC5IMKHfABDAIQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=654
I think that while comparing actual images of some in the Trump team to those of Adams Family is a low quality way to convey a message, it's nowhere on the scale of images where the Obama family is photoshopped to be apes, or the one based on Obama's campaign theme of "Hope," where he is being lynched, and the word changed to "Rope."
Are you forgetting how pervasive the memes were during the Obama presidency? Did you speak out against THOSE at the time. Or did you partake in the "fun?"
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 23, 2018 - 02:44pm PT
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Who have convinced me Cosmic, you are being as big an ass as the others
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 23, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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Its been open season for a long time. Did you ignore the Obama meme's? The advent of the internet has expanded the ability of ugly humans to spread their ugliness.
Obama got about the same amount of abuse as Dubya. Volume-wise, it was 2-3, with occasional spikes.
With Trump, it's been cranked up to eleven, since November 2016.
Granted, Trump brings a lot of it on himself.
----------------------------------------
I'm wondering how I've gotten drawn into siding with The Donald. I can't stand the man. I worry about the damage he's doing. I'd be hard-pressed to make a case for him not being the worst POTUS ever. Nevertheless, I think all the constant, over-the-top abuse heaped on him is harmful to this country. It's part of our slippery slope to Idiocracy.
And... it alienates a lot of people who might otherwise vote against Trump in 2020.
We have met the enemy...
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
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There is nothing racist about the tRump memes. Anyone that talks as much trash as tRump shouldn’t whine when it comes back on him. That is what an entitled, spoiled brat does.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 23, 2018 - 03:50pm PT
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Aug 3, 2009 · US President Barack Obama is the target of more than 30 potential death threats a day and is being protected by an increasingly over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, according to a ...
Secret Service Employs Five Body Doubles For Donald Trump As Death Threats Mount
gents protecting the president are particularly pleased with the performance of a horse brought in to mimic POTUS45 and throw potential assailants off guard. In September during a livestock sale in Ames, Iowa where President Trump was in attendance, a few hundred people lined up to get a photograph taken with the horse’s ass instead of the president who was standing only a few feet away.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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We may have a deeply divided nation, in a mess of frustrations over what our values should be and how we should achieve them... but at least there is one area where we can count on our legislators to come together:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-art-of-a-banking-deal-1527114002
Passing legislation that makes life better for bank owners!
I, for one, am relieved that the pathway to go from large regional bank to too-big-to-fail has gotten easier.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 23, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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I'd be hard-pressed to make a case for him not being the worst POTUS ever.
George W. Bush still holds that honor.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 23, 2018 - 05:07pm PT
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Balanced budget, that was not a campaign promise was it?
So Cosmic, how are you spending your tax cut? stock buy-back or hiring more employees? Libtard minds want to know.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/harley-davidson-workers-stunned-plant-closure-after-tax-cut-n876901
Workers were taken aback by the decision to close the plant. “You could see it on everybody’s faces, just shock and awe,” recalls Primeaux. “It was like I was in a bad dream, just stuck in it.”
Harley is also building a new plant in Thailand. However the company maintains that the Bangkok plant is “separate and unrelated” to the decision to close the Kansas City plant, according to Michael Pflughoeft, a spokesman for Harley-Davidson.
The company calls the closing of the Kansas City plant a tough decision but says domestic sales are down and it needed to “address the excess capacity in the U.S.”
But some Harley employees in Kansas City believe that their plant was closed to make money for the Bangkok one.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 23, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
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Divided Nation? Not the way you may think.
The ultra wealthy have weaponized conservative media platforms to encite ancient cultural and political divisions.
This isn't about Left or Right, it's vertical, economic stratification of populations. We are witnessing a historical replay every society has faced and there will always be pathetic, boot-licking collaborators at the ready.
The explosion of the 1 percenter's wealth, the overt and sinister alliance of oligarchs across international lines and the decline of middle classes everywhere is irrefutable evidence of their success.
Witnessing the depth the swamp creatures in this Government will go to proves the unthinkable- from the halls of Yale to the offices of Wall Street to our Nation's Capial- the mega-rich are in collusion to rescind our representation, sell off our public assets and enslave the masses.
Citizens United was the death nail of checks and balances.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 23, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
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^^^
BINGO
"There is a war of the classes, and my class is winning"
W. Buffet
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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It will be open season on the next Democrat President.
The same way it was for the previous two Democrat Presidents?
Republican politicians have been leading the way towards hyper-partisanship since Reagan was president.
There is a legitimate, factual reason for investigating the Trump campaign. People are not pleading guilty out of loyalty to Hillary Clinton. They're pleading guilty because they have committed crimes. GOP members hindering the investigation won't change the facts. They'll just delay the inevitable, and hopefully they will be indicted, themselves, for obstruction.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 23, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
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Yep. I hear nothing, nothing from Dem 'leaders' about this sh#t storm.
One of the major rules of politics, is that when your opponent is tripping all over themselves, DO NOT become a distraction by speaking up. Trump is on the line with N. Korea. I think he will not be winning the Nobel this time around....
I see no reason to distract from the sh*t-storm that is Trump. Indictment after indictment. Guilty pleas galore.
The only message that is not being well addressed, is the tax cuts that people MIGHT get, based upon what the Gov't has borrowed to give them. Run that deficit up to give rich people money.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 23, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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What Contractor said.
I think he's giving W a run.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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Funny, in between the first grade name calling, I never got any answer/explanation on this one from our right-leaning friends. I'm asking again nicely. How is this not accepting a bribe? Here's the original question:
"And, please add to the explanation a description of how the following is not overt bribery by the Chinese of President Trump:
1. The President takes a hard line on trade with China;
2. Having caught the Chinese company ZTE cheating and lying about North Korean sanctions, the President orders them cut off from American made parts, thus effectively gutting the company;
3. The President's Indonesian business venture then receives half a billion dollars of Chinese investment;
4. Shortly thereafter the President backs off of sanctions against ZTE.
Is this bribery? It appears like bribery to me, but I certainly don't know all the background facts either.
Are there other explanations? Did anything else change other than this Chinese funding?
I'm open minded. I really dislike President Trump and his utterly corrupt administration. But I'm open minded.
To prove that I'm open minded, I'd be willing to start listing things that this fool has done that I like.
But one of you right-leaning posters help me out here. Please. No name calling, just a simple-english explanation. Was President Trump bribed by the Chinese?"
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
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And while you (whichever right-leaning friend takes this on) are thinking on/answering that one, here's a pair of questions for any poster here who thought we should "lock her up:"
1. Was Hillary's use of email systems as Secretary of State a reason to "lock her up?"
2. Is Trump's use of totally unsecured phones as President appropriate?
If you (the person kind enough to respond) answer with a yes/yes pattern, feel free to add in an explanation of how and why the double standard should be applied.
Thanks ahead of time!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 23, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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Mtn. Young...When pigs fly...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 23, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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Wise guy ey...? Moe poking curly in the eyes with forked fingers..
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 23, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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I posted pictures making fun of public figures appearances sure. I didn't post racist things. If you can't tell the difference I guess you'll never know.
Combing through peoples accounts and history is creepy.
I posted a picture making fun of Hillary, I wonder why you didn't post that one?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 23, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
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Brad at least we know DJT ain't doin' no Weiner style funny bidness self skin art cellie captures with his unsecured phone. can you prove such about the losing (loser) candidate in the past election?
, djt sprayed cohen paid and all I got was this lousy Bengerzer tshert
gotta say Ken M if you think that your party of democrats has political strategy well wrapt then boy you got some sausage skin to get clipping. forget the republicans bent over by an orange impotent. forget the dems and the lame lame lame political inability to be dicks. UNITY PARTY 2020
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 23, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
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What we have here is failure to... cooperate.
Answers please??
Nice post Malemute; important questions.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 23, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
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George W. Bush still holds that honor.
Gary, I disagree. It took GWB eight years to win the worst president prize.
Trump won it in less than a year and a half.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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May 23, 2018 - 11:20pm PT
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Here you go mtnyoung. I'm interested too. This also has bearing on the goofy stuff happening with North Korea. I have to wonder if China gave the same kind of deal to Kim. How would we know? Hang a carrot in front of Trump and see what happens. The way Trump has been hanging the carrot of enrichment in front of Kim is kind of a giveaway to Trump behavior. He expects Kim to react in a way that Trump responds himself to China and China responds to Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/opinion/trump-china-bribe-national-security.html
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 06:24am PT
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McHale's Navy,
Excellent article. Plain English and objective.
I hadn't even heard of the very, very similar Qatari situation. There Trump has - at least - left an appearance of bribery:
"...this wasn’t the first time the Trump administration made a peculiar foreign policy move that seems associated with Trump family business interests. Last year the administration, bizarrely, backed a Saudi blockade of Qatar, a Middle Eastern nation that also happens to be the site of a major U.S. military base. Why? Well, the move came shortly after the Qataris refused to invest $500 million in 666 Fifth Avenue, a troubled property owned by the family of Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law" [emphasis added by me].
This statement from the article fits perfectly with all I've ever been taught about political ethics:
"We’re not talking about a court of law, where the accused are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Where the behavior of high officials is concerned, the standard is very nearly the opposite: They’re supposed to avoid situations in which there is even a hint that their actions might be motivated by personal gain."
I've also heard the words as "the appearance of impropriety."
I'm approaching "wall of text" length here, so two quick questions to our right leaning Supertopians:
1. Is the President of the United States using his powers to specifically enrich himself?
2. Isn't the mere appearance of such impropriety the very definition of the Washington swamp?
I'll take my answers in plain English please ;)
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 06:26am PT
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xCon, I was referring to the failure of right-leaning posters here to respond to my questions (to cooperate).
But it fits too with current prevailing political attitudes too doesn't it?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 24, 2018 - 06:35am PT
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— Do you believe in democracy, or not?
— Are you faithful to your country, or to your party?
— Are you loyal to the law and the Constitution, or to a man?
— Do you reflexively ascribe the worst motives to your opponents, but somehow deny, excuse, or endorse every repulsive thing your compatriot says, does or tweets?
Democracy
Country
We are a country of laws.
I reflexively ascribe the worst motives to most politicians. Dems more than Repubs. Most of both parties are ultra-partisan turds.
Who do I consider to be admirable politicians? Trey Gowdy, Nikki Haley, Ben Sasse and Barack Obama.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 24, 2018 - 06:36am PT
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King Donald has ordered an investigation , witch hunt , into a spy being planted in his campaign by Obama...The King has created a conspiracy theory matching his previous claims that Obama wasn't born in the US and Obama wire tapped his room..It's obvious King Donald is trying to derail the collusion investigation following his pattern of obstructing justice...Trumps MO in winning the presidency has been attacking his opponents full force with lies designed to ruin his opponents integrity...Now 2 republicans will meet and review secret intelligence regarding Donald's latest conspiracy theory...Is it a coinicidence that Nunes , Trump's court jester , is going to be one of those Republicans viewing the secret inteligence..
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 24, 2018 - 06:57am PT
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Perhaps the "Which Hunt!" that DT is constantly decrying is actually his own hunt - throw down a breadcrumb trail and see who is following it. Sort of like the exploding ink packets on bank robber cash bundles....
Those who pick up the breadcrumb trail are the "witches," having pretty much handed themselves in, making the job of controlling those folks much easier.
Yes, I do tend toward conspiracy, but you have to admit - IF a group were trying to exterminate a segment of a population that they considered subversive to their goal, this would actually be a great, and effective, strategy. If I were a dastardly tyrant, I'd be patting myself on the back pretty nicely for thinking of this idea.....
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dirtbag
climber
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May 24, 2018 - 07:12am PT
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McHale's Navy,
Excellent article. Plain English and objective.
I hadn't even heard of the very, very similar Qatari situation. There Trump has - at least - left an appearance of bribery:
"...this wasn’t the first time the Trump administration made a peculiar foreign policy move that seems associated with Trump family business interests. Last year the administration, bizarrely, backed a Saudi blockade of Qatar, a Middle Eastern nation that also happens to be the site of a major U.S. military base. Why? Well, the move came shortly after the Qataris refused to invest $500 million in 666 Fifth Avenue, a troubled property owned by the family of Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law" [emphasis added by me].
This statement from the article fits perfectly with all I've ever been taught about political ethics:
"We’re not talking about a court of law, where the accused are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Where the behavior of high officials is concerned, the standard is very nearly the opposite: They’re supposed to avoid situations in which there is even a hint that their actions might be motivated by personal gain."
I've also heard the words as "the appearance of impropriety."
I'm approaching "wall of text" length here, so two quick questions to our right leaning Supertopians:
1. Is the President of the United States using his powers to specifically enrich himself?
2. Isn't the mere appearance of such impropriety the very definition of the Washington swamp?
A bit of congressional oversight from the beginning could’ve reigned some of this in, reducing doubt about his motives, and actually strengthening his presidency. Oversight could be trump’s friend, in many cases.
Lacking any backbone, congress has encouraged this to fester.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 24, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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I don't know what you're talking about!
Ever since Citizens United, American corporations, foreign governments and investors have taking their Congressional oversight duties very serious with remarkable results.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 24, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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King Donald has ordered an investigation , witch hunt , into a spy being planted in his campaign by Obama...The King has created a conspiracy theory matching his previous claims that Obama wasn't born in the US and Obama wire tapped his room..It's obvious King Donald is trying to derail the collusion investigation following his pattern of obstructing justice...Trumps MO in winning the presidency has been attacking his opponents full force with lies designed to ruin his opponents integrity...Now 2 republicans will meet and review secret intelligence regarding Donald's latest conspiracy theory...Is it a coinicidence that Nunes , Trump's court jester , is going to be one of those Republicans viewing the secret inteligence..
and people don't believe trump is senile.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 24, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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hey there say, st00pid Americans... yes, Trump's presidency is a total and complete train wreck, but at least he still has the Singapore Summit.
No he doesn't.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 07:52am PT
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No he doesn't.
But he should still get the Nobel Peace Prize because... well, he tried.
Anyone who knows an iota of history could have predicted this.
I admire the President for trying something new regarding North Korea. But his execution of the idea has been barely good enough to be called amateur (and who knows, time continues to tick onward, maybe he'll pull this one off...).
At least he hasn't accepted a bribe from North Korea (that we know of).
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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I know for fact that Trump IS insane.
But you people are the direct cause of idiots like him appearing in power.
it's been more than 50 years in the making.
It's completely your faults.
If you believe otherwise then you are as insane as Trump is ....
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 24, 2018 - 08:24am PT
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What an idiot. Here's the start of the letter cancelling the meeting........
Dear Mr. Chairman:
We greatly appreciate your time, patience, and effort with respect to our recent negotiations and discussions relative to a summit long sought by both parties, which was scheduled to take place on June 12 in Singapore. We were informed that the meeting was requested by North Korea, but that to us is totally irrelevant. l was very much looking forward to being there with you. Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting. Therefore, please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place. You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used.
This is written at a 4th grade level. If Trump didn't write it we're in even more trouble than I thought.............
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dirtbag
climber
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May 24, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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I’m kind of relieved. He is so I’ll prepared, vulnerable to flattery, and impetuous, that the whole thing seemed set up for failure. God only knows what concessions he would have made.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 24, 2018 - 08:31am PT
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He has a plan for everything
"We'll see what happens"
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 08:36am PT
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...God only knows what concessions he would have made.
I wasn't worried so much about concessions as about falling for a pack of lies from a North Korean dictator.
Those who don't know history are condemned to repeat it (so they say). And Trump is as ignorant of history as they come. Even recent history, like the Clinton and Bush "agreements" with North Korea that weren't worth the paper the were presumably printed on.
He'd have come home patting himself on the back for accomplishing "peace in our time" while having actually gotten nothing of value.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 08:57am PT
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Public Service Announcement:
It's a gorgeous day here in the Sierra after days of on-and-off rain storms.
I'm taking the dogs and heading up to 8,000 feet to see what snow levels are like at my favorite crags. I think I will also do a hiking recon of a fantastic, alpine granite cliff system that may be as much as an hour and a half hike from the trailhead. But worth the hike - maybe as many as 50 new route possibilities.
These words have nothing to do with this thread's topic.
They are designed only to make fellow readers jealous.
Now get back to work.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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May 24, 2018 - 09:13am PT
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^^^where is this is?^^^
Beyond Burst?
Have fun and post a pic or 2 with your report when you get back, por favor!!
I miss your zone...
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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May 24, 2018 - 09:29am PT
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I’m looking forward to seeing all the awesome new Big Walls and routes to be formed within the next two million years. Unfortunately for the rest of you, my time machine goes with me.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 24, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 24, 2018 - 11:10am PT
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Can we still buy the commemorative coin?
edit: just checked, they marked the price down
https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/summitcoin.htm
The Coin Will be Made Whether or Not the Summit Occurs as Scheduled
Because the Theme is
Coming Closer to Peace and Celebrates the Act of Communication Among Countries
If Summit Does Not Occur You can Request a Refund but Most Supporters Have Said They Want This Heirloom of
Political History Regardless of Outcome.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 24, 2018 - 11:34am PT
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Latest Trump quote:
"I believe that this is a tremendous set back for North Korea and indeed a set back for the world. I've spoken to General Mattis and the joint chiefs of staff and our military which is by far the most powerful anywhere in the world, that has been greatly enhanced recently as you all know, is ready if necessary."
"Likewise, I have spoken to South Korea and Japan and they are not only ready should foolish or reckless acts be taken by North Korea, but they are willing to shoulder much of the cost of any financial burden, any of the costs associated by the United States in operations if such an unfortunate situation is forced upon us."
This guy is good. Not only did he get Mexico to pay for the wall, he's going to get Japan and S. Korea to pay for the war!!!! Amazing.
Please bring back the adults.........
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dirtbag
climber
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May 24, 2018 - 11:34am PT
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I am shocked it tanked.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 24, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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Never had a chance. It's like watching two monkeys trying to screw the same football.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 24, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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^^^where is this is?^^^
Beyond Burst?
Have fun and post a pic or 2 with your report when you get back, por favor!!
I miss your zone...
Cragar:
There is no Burst Rock anywhere near where I live.
If there was a Burst Rock near where I live, there would be absolutely no unclimbed rocks anywhere nearby.
If there were any unclimbed rocks anywhere near the Burst Rock that does not exist anywhere near my house, they would be chossy.
(Feel free to PM me for details and maybe a photo. Maybe.)
Unclimbed, 30 minutes from parking, 50 feet high:
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 24, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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Everything anyone needs to know about our moron president summed up in five words.
...but ours are so massive...
You just can't make this infantile sh#t up.
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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So Malemute now confirms that he is 5 years old that's why he can only copy and paste and knows nothing himself .....
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 24, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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Braun, just f*#king give it up. You make even less sense than you did.... whenever. You got something to say, say it. You got nothing to say, which is the situation, just STFU. Yeah, I get you get off on the bullshit repetitive posts, but at least change the pattern or the words or something. Pretty lame man. What a tool.
And yeah, I know my response is what you want, but you look like a stupid idiot quacking into the sunset. Nothing personal, just happy to make your day.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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May 25, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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Interesting that my generation of leftists, who used to be suspicious of CIA, NSA, FBI and other spook agencies of the US gov't, now take their word as the gospel.
Interesting times
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dirtbag
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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Interesting that my generation of right wingers, who used to take the word of the CIA, NSA, FBI and other spook agencies of the US gov't as gospel, and criticize Russia without hesitation, now attack the spook agencies as stormtroopers because they dare to investigate criminal activities of trump and high level trump associates, while praising the Russian dictatorship.
Interesting times
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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May 25, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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Hey Dirtbag
We should all be skeptical of anything that comes out of DC. What do any of us really know?
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WBraun
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 07:59am PT
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St00pid clueless brainwashed fools like Dirtbag, fried Craig and Malemute etc. don't investigate anything.
They just swallow everything they are fed ......
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 25, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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Nature’s joke thread is one of my favorite here. I didn’t want to dilute the great jokes by commenting about them in that thread :)
Madbolter, your “yeah right” joke especially got a big chuckle out of me today.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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I am happy that I started this conversation. There have been many, many lucid and intelligent responses. I have learned many new and important things through this experience.
Unfortunately, or obviously, there hasn't been much, in the way of rational responses that can answer for the behavior of President Trump. The mental contortions necessary to rationalize what Trump is doing are not based in logic and reason. They seem to be based on emotion, or worse, on delusion. #SAD
I would like to hear one, even one, rational, logical and intelligent person explain to me how it is acceptable for Trump to lie, over and over, and how that is edifying for our nation.
Al Capone, in Chicago, was deemed, by some, to be a great guy. He would give away Thanksgiving turkeys in depressed neighborhoods. Is that what we want?
When I converse with people who still support Trump, they want to divert from the investigation, and gloat about their puny-money tax break that, somehow, seems to them to be a wonderful thing.
I am confused, but accepting. I like those people. I just don't understand how they can defend an onslaught of lies, and support an attack on an investigation that seeks to protect our electoral system.
Franz Kafka, having a child with George Orwell, could not have, ever, produced a child that would grow up to be Donald Trump, and see him become the President of the United States.
Truth is, truly, stranger than fiction.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 25, 2018 - 11:02am PT
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ot to echo werner or anything, but who f*#king cares?
after W I retreated into the americunt southwest. any reason to emerge? nope didnt think so.
oh wait, yes there is: supposed "heads" like cosmic taking to the schwaggity sticky and stemmy Jefferson Davis Sessions drug policy and Trump's undermining of my own marriage in spite of Cosmic and similar support of antigay state mandates; with no word from cosmic as to Trump's claimed (and real) ability/desjre to "grab some pussy" from my wife, I gotta conclude that cosmic is schwag as f uk.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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Why in hell can't Trump supporters have a conversation about what is going on w/out bringing up Hillary
The New Godwin's law is; "The first one that brings up Hillary loses"
Hillary is Not the problem, and was never the Problem
The Problem is Money in politics number 1
and that Republicans can not admit that they are complete hypocrites and see can not see what is going on rationally
They are completely misinformed on almost every subject
There is no intellectual discourse coming from their side
We have entered dark times due to ONE THING, Republicans Putting up Trump as their leader and rigging the election for him and other Repubs in every district.
He is an Fascist Authoritarian leader, he breaks the law every single day and not a single Republican Congressman cares
This is not normal and should not be normalized
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 25, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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same reason you cant talk about drumpf without sucking some dem D Craig. quit being such a limp twotrack twoparty mind craig and we will all be a bit more receptive to your cut and paste diatribes
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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Bill Maher recently came up with some great premises and a conclusion:
The birth rate in America is down.
More people generally result in better economic benefit to a nation.
Restricting immigration will result in a decrease in population.
America's economic power will decline, if there is a decline in its number of endeavouring individuals.
Ergo, restricting immigration will hasten America's decline.
Bill Maher, in his statements, did not address the dilemma that more people, in general, stress available resources. This is true around the world, and not just in America.
Pull your pants up.
And, while you're at it, tie your shoes.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 25, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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Trump rips the NFL for disrespecting the flag. Then he jokes about a military flag ceremony.
By Patrick Martin
Trump joked about “Retreat.” Here’s what you need to know about the military custom.
President Trump joked about a bugle call he heard on Harrisburg Air National Guard Base on Oct. 11. The call is part of the military’s flag ceremony. (Patrick Martin/The Washington Post)
After he had repeatedly railed against professional athletes over perceived slights to the American flag and military, President Trump joked on Wednesday about a bugle call that is part of the armed forces’ time-honored tradition of showing respect for the Stars and Stripes.
The bugle call occurred during Trump’s interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity, conducted in an airplane hangar used by the Pennsylvania Air National Guard in Harrisburg and before the president’s address on tax revision.
“What a nice sound that is. Are they playing that for you or for me?” Trump said before turning to the audience. “They’re playing that in honor of his ratings,” he added, referencing the popularity of Hannity’s news program.
Trump went back to speaking about economic growth as several audience members behind him stood up. The bugle call was “Retreat,” which signifies the lowering of the American flag on a military installation.
Although Trump attended a military high school, the commander in chief appeared unaware of the music’s meaning.
The White House did not respond to questions seeking to understand Trump’s familiarity with this military tradition.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 25, 2018 - 11:52am PT
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The Marine Corps never did the Retreat bugle thing as far as I can recall, but I did hear it all the time on Air Force bases. You had to stop your car, not sure you had to actually get out of the car or not. Of course Trump is ignorant about that ceremony, it is military
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2018 - 11:55am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Trump is activated from compendium of conflicted emotions and logic.
Trump operates from a misunderstanding of Chaos Theory. #NOT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
EDIT:
Anyone who can play more than one note from a bugle is better than I am. I have big conch shell, from Cozumel, Mexico, and I can, just barely, get one note out of it. #MexicanRapistsWithSeaSnailShells
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 25, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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Crickets.
Not one word explaining how/why President Trump has not accepted bribes. I don't think it's an outrageous request. I've asked twice. No one to defend him?
I'm starting to think that he absolutely did accept bribes and that his administration is the mother of all swamps. Corruption personified.
How about an answer to my easier question (easier because it only asks for a poster's opinion, not for an explanation ) Here's my second unanswered question:
"1. Was Hillary's use of email systems as Secretary of State a reason to "lock her up?"
2. Is Trump's use of totally unsecured phones as President appropriate?
If you (the person kind enough to respond) answer with a yes/yes pattern, feel free to add in an explanation of how and why the double standard should be applied.
Thanks ahead of time!"
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, crickets.
I paraphrase, here, but the Master Jedi, Michael Avenatti, shared this with us:
"When the facts are on your side, you argue the facts.
When the law is on your side, you argue the law.
When you have no facts or law on your side, you pound the table."
The crickets aren't brave enough to pound the table.
Their position is so ludicrous, they're cowering.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 25, 2018 - 12:52pm PT
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^^^^^^
I'm starting to think.......
Ho Man.....how did it feel? Now....you can re-insert tool! lol
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 25, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
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HoMan,
Very, very artful, out of context quote. Pretty funny.
One might be forced to conclude that you've got half a brain ;)
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 25, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
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^^^
That's the first intelligent response I've had to my question about Trump accepting bribes.
I'll summarize your comment (which seems to be an observation, not an argument defending him) as "he doesn't see that as bribery."
So if any other reasonably intelligent person would consider that conduct bribery, but President Trump does not think of it that way, is it bribery?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 25, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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Just to make sure that the question discussed above is easy to find, here it is again, with the introduction I made the second time I posted it:
"Excellent article. Plain English and objective.
I hadn't even heard of the very, very similar Qatari situation. There Trump has - at least - left an appearance of bribery:
'...this wasn’t the first time the Trump administration made a peculiar foreign policy move that seems associated with Trump family business interests. Last year the administration, bizarrely, backed a Saudi blockade of Qatar, a Middle Eastern nation that also happens to be the site of a major U.S. military base. Why? Well, the move came shortly after the Qataris refused to invest $500 million in 666 Fifth Avenue, a troubled property owned by the family of Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law' [emphasis added by me].
This statement from the article fits perfectly with all I've ever been taught about political ethics:
'We’re not talking about a court of law, where the accused are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Where the behavior of high officials is concerned, the standard is very nearly the opposite: They’re supposed to avoid situations in which there is even a hint that their actions might be motivated by personal gain."
I've also heard the words as "the appearance of impropriety.
I'm approaching "wall of text" length here, so two quick questions to our right leaning Supertopians:
1. Is the President of the United States using his powers to specifically enrich himself?
2. Isn't the mere appearance of such impropriety the very definition of the Washington swamp?
I'll take my answers in plain English please ;)
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dirtbag
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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That's the first intelligent response I've had to my question about Trump accepting bribes.
I'll summarize your comment (which seems to be an observation, not an argument defending him) as "he doesn't see that as bribery."
So if any other reasonably intelligent person would consider that conduct bribery, but President Trump does not think of it that way, is it bribery?
Except that he tries (sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard) to keep it on the down low, so he knows it’s not kosher.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
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Trump is a money addict.
It is very clear that his addiction to money is interfering with his intended role as president.
His money addiction perverts his mental capabilities, and even when an innocuous decision won't fulfill his cranial cravings, he behaves abnormally.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
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It’s the Trump University presidency.
We can’t say we weren’t warned.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 25, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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Sucking some Dem??
what other option do we have?
Does anything think third parties are going to save us?
So many here know way too little about politics to even be posting on a political thread
Do any of you people read the REAL NEWS??
or is it just confirmation bias retreat into fairy tale land
As Far as I'm concerned, if you can't say I should have voted for Hillary, then you are completely brain DEAD
You should say I should have done anything possible to KEEP The Republicans out of office, because we know what they do, they work for bribes. They will start wars, they will raise the National debt, they will corrupt the system, they will screw healthcare, screw working people and an 10000 other awful things,
Only the Democrats have the power to get money out of politics
NOT a single Republican will go along with this, so if you don't vote for Democrats, then things will just get worse
But I guess the truth is, blaming Hillary and the Dems makes you feel better.
It gives you an out. Pretty lame IMO
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 25, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
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Gud one!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 25, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
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USA Today- Two graduates of the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., penned an op-ed in The Baltimore Sun questioning President Trump's suitability to deliver the commencement speech to this year's graduating class of midshipmen on Friday.
It is right and fitting that the president of the United States give a commencement address to a service academy’s graduating class," Daniel Barkhuff and William Burke wrote in Wedesday's edition of the paper. "It is also right and fitting that citizens of the democracy for which these graduates will soon be charged with protecting point out the personal cowardice, narcissism and incompetency of the current president."
Barkhuff and Burke, who work a Veterans for Responsible Leadership, wrote of the sacrifices made by various Naval Academy graduates, such as Sen. John McCain, over the years.
"Contrast this to the personal and professional honor of the sitting president of the United States, who time and again makes small choices guided by self-interest, ego, impulse and immediate self-gratification," they wrote. "He could never do what we ask our U.S. Naval Academy graduates to do. He is a physical coward, a liar and no leader at all.
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Trump
climber
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May 25, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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So what?
Those guys are protecting the personal cowardice, narcissism and incompetence of the country who elected Trump leader. So what - there’s this one guy who’s president who isn’t the leader these geniuses want him to be. They’re not protecting him - they’re protecting the genius people and the genius system and the genius country who made him our leader.
Trump is just an excuse to blame someone else for who we are, and if the moral leaders of our military need to do that too, well, they’re probably living in the right country.
And what a great opportunity for us to get behind these geniuses who think it’s about this one person and not about the entire country who elected him, and make ourselves feel better by not noticing that they’re morally righteous geniuses like us who don’t even notice our own self-delusions, and who want to make it all about him, and not about us.
Ok, if those are the cards you’ve got, I wish you luck, ‘merica .
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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May 25, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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So what?
Those guys are protecting the personal cowardice, narcissism and incompetence of the country who elected Trump leader. So what - there’s this one guy who’s president who isn’t the leader these geniuses want him to be. They’re not protecting him - they’re protecting the genius people and the genius system and the genius country who made him our leader.
Trump is just an excuse to blame someone else for who we are, and if the moral leaders of our military need to do that too, well, they’re probably living in the right country.
And what a great opportunity for us to get behind these geniuses who think it’s about this one person and not about the entire country who elected him, and make ourselves feel better by not noticing that they’re morally righteous geniuses like us who don’t even notice our own self-delusions, and who want to make it all about him, and not about us.
Ok, if those are the cards you’ve got, I wish you luck, ‘merica .
Don has a point.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 25, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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Yep, Trump's got a point there.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 25, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
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So many here know way too little about politics to even be posting on a political thread
Do any of you people read the REAL NEWS??
or is it just confirmation bias retreat into fairy tale land
^^^^^
Dr. Fried at it's best!
Dude's reality is made up of lies and delusion.
If he ate his San Pedro it might right the sinking ship?
He pursues the ways of the sociopath
Sic fuk
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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May 25, 2018 - 11:50pm PT
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^^^^ Yes, we're referred to as deplorables. And you're a deluded member of a shrinking minority in a rubberized echo chamber.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 25, 2018 - 11:56pm PT
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is that the world's tiniest little violin I hear?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 26, 2018 - 06:00am PT
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rump does not drink. not a drop. this suggest that at one time, he noticed he had a problem with alcohol. so he quits drinking. now what?
Trump does not drink because he watched his brother kill himself with alcohol, not an uncommon scenario. To be fair, Trumps issues likely relate back to the way he was raised. There are documentaries about his early life and it is sad. What is even sadder is the fact that Trump seems to have little engagement with his son Barron, he is repeating the mistakes of his father. I think most parents will tell you that the birth of a child changes your life. Does Trump ever do activities with Baron? No, he left that to Melania and nannies. According to Michael Wolff's book Fire and Fury, "Trump often bragged to people about Melania Trump, calling her a “trophy wife." Wolff’s book also stated that Melania Trump’s life before her husband's presidency was nearly “entirely focused on her young son”, while the president was nearly absent from Barron's life." Normal behavior for a self-centered narcissist.
Hell, even the name Barron reeks of narcissism. https://www.romper.com/p/why-is-barron-trump-named-barron-his-dads-kind-of-obsessed-with-the-name-15068
Melania said Donald never changed a diaper or put his son to bed. This is in keeping with a statement Donald made to Howard Stern the year that Barron was conceived: "I like kids. I mean, I won’t do anything to take care of them. I’ll supply funds and she’ll take care of the kids." Not only has he kept that promise, he gave his youngest son the bonus gift of his favorite name in the whole wide world. Pretty generous.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 07:10am PT
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My guess I was correct
Only confirmation bias news sites being used to flog the Democratic Party
Here is the Current Democratic party Platform, which is devoted to creating a true Democracy by strengthening voter rights and GETTING The Money out of politics
1. Empower the American Voter to Ensure Responsive Government. We must protect every citizen’s right to vote, safeguard our election infrastructure from hostile actors and put an end to partisan redistricting.
2.Strengthen Our Nation’s Ethics Laws to Fight Special Interests. We must end the revolving-door in Washington and rein in the influence of high-powered Washington insiders, lobbyists and big-money donors – and the special interests that are driving Washington’s agenda.
3.Fix Our Broken Campaign Finance System to Combat Big Money Influence. We must break the stranglehold on our democracy by wealthy and well-connected campaign donors by empowering everyday Americans and ending the scourge of unaccountable “dark money” unleashed by Citizens United.
https://abetterdeal.democraticleader.gov/better-deal-for-our-democracy/
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dirtbag
climber
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May 26, 2018 - 07:21am PT
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Yes, an aging socialist most definitely would’ve won.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 26, 2018 - 07:25am PT
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Hillary could have won. Instead she decided to ignore 45% of the dem base and pick Timmy.
Timmy will roll up his sleeves and work for you. Go, Timmy, Go!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 07:26am PT
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Turns out the Primary wasn't rigged against Bernie
Shocker eh!
I guess most people don't know how to use Google and would rather cling to misinformation for comfort
Was the Democratic primary rigged?
Within a few days, both Brazile and Warren walked their statements all the way back. Brazile now says she found “no evidence” the primary was rigged. Warren now says that though there was “some bias” within the DNC, “the overall 2016 primary process was fair.”
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged
Donna Brazile who said it was rigged now says it wasn't
What now?
Are you going to take all the BS you posted back?
The facts as of now, Hillary did win, but due to numerous Republican illegal activities, the election was stolen.
and down ballot elections were affected as well.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 26, 2018 - 07:28am PT
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Hillary has class. She prefers to lose with dignity by keeping her ticket pure and corporate.
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WBraun
climber
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May 26, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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Round and round in circles you nutcases go .....
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 26, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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And we know you love it WB, or you would not be here yourself.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 07:41am PT
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Fact
The Russian's have used Bernie as a wedge to divide Democrats/liberals
Can we please move past the use of Russian weaponised BS and try to come together as a movement to try and elect progressives
I agree, Hillary was not that great, but she won the Primary, and there was very little difference on policy between Hillary and Bernie
Who in hell would want to be President?
It's hard to get good liberals that want such a terrible job
Here is another fact, if Hillary won, the Deplorables would have made her presidency a Horror show of investigations, lies and total derangement
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 26, 2018 - 07:54am PT
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Here's where I part ways with my fellow Democrats. Yes, the Clinton machine and Debbie Wasserman Schultz rigged as many components as possible to screw Bernie- It's a fact. These include control of scheduling, committee bylaws and backroom deals.
It was subtle and it didn't include foreign governments, nonetheless, it was designed to tip the scales which in the end, still subverts the will of the voter.
Obama set a high bar for ethics in Government. I suppose this is why so few Obama people we're willing to hold their nose and join the Clinton campaign.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 07:56am PT
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Yet the people that made those claims now say they were wrong
and some of it was Russian troll farm lies, fact
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 26, 2018 - 08:06am PT
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monolith
climber
state of being
May 26, 2018 - 07:28am PT
Hillary has class. She prefers to lose with dignity.
LOL
Typically, election losers make a concession speech and disappear for a while or just return to their previous job. Hillary (like Sarah Palin) chose to capitalize on her notoriety, going on a prolonged Whine Tour. Poor pitiful Hillary. Whah, whah, whah.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 26, 2018 - 08:08am PT
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Gosh, using the word "fact" so decisively is utterly convincing.
Hey, rick sumner: you seem to lean to the right. Would you care to answer my questions about President Trump's apparent willingness to accept bribes? Or his use of unsecured phones?
I'm not looking for argument, but instead for rational explanations, reasons that what appears to be true (to me) isn't.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 26, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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Yes, we're referred to as deplorables
an admission of guilt.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 26, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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^^^
Rick sumner, lemme know if you need me to re-post the questions.
Intelligent people can think for themselves. Do you think for yourself? Is there any room at all to admit that our current president is anything less than perfect?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 08:29am PT
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This article explains a lot about the Trump voter
and why they don't care what crimes he commits or the constant lying
there are a 25-33% of any population that are Authoritarians
they love strong leaders that impart cruelty on 'the others' that they can blame for their suffering
The rise of American authoritarianism
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism
In South Carolina, a CBS News exit poll found that 75 percent of Republican voters supported banning Muslims from the United States. A PPP poll found that a third of Trump voters support banning gays and lesbians from the country. Twenty percent said Lincoln shouldn't have freed the slaves.
Authoritarians are thought to express much deeper fears than the rest of the electorate, to seek the imposition of order where they perceive dangerous change, and to desire a strong leader who will defeat those fears with force. They would thus seek a candidate who promised these things. And the extreme nature of authoritarians' fears, and of their desire to challenge threats with force, would lead them toward a candidate whose temperament was totally unlike anything we usually see in American politics — and whose policies went far beyond the acceptable norms.
A candidate like Donald Trump.
lots of good info in the long article
apparently, some people are more susceptible to BS than others
Who would have thought..
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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May 26, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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Craig, here's a thought: isn't there an element like this on either end of the political spectrum?
There's no science behind my comment, just kind of an observation/guess.
It's easy to see the 20% r so that the article describes on the right. It seems to me that there's an equal, utterly unthinking, close-minded group on the left.
Am I crazy?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Right and left
The phrase "right-wing" in right-wing authoritarianism does not necessarily refer to someone's politics, but to psychological preferences and personality. It means that the person tends to follow the established conventions and authorities in society. In theory, the authorities could have either right-wing or left-wing political views.[17]
Milton Rokeach's dogmatism scale was an early attempt to measure pure authoritarianism, whether left or right. The scale was carefully designed to measure closed-mindedness without regard to ideology. Nevertheless, researchers found that it correlated with British political conservativism.[18] In a similar line of research, Philip Tetlock found that right wing beliefs are associated with less integrative complexity than left wing beliefs. People with moderate liberal attitudes had the highest integrative complexity in their cognitions.[19]
There have been a number of other attempts to identify "left-wing authoritarians" in the United States and Canada. These would be people who submit to leftist authorities, are highly conventional to liberal viewpoints and are aggressive to people who oppose left-wing ideology. These attempts have failed because measures of authoritarianism always correlate at least slightly with the right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 26, 2018 - 09:18am PT
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Interesting test, Craig.
It conveniently ignores leftwing authoritarianism.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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Although authoritarians in North America generally support conservative political parties, this finding must be considered in a historical and cultural context. For example, during the Cold War authoritarians in the United States were usually anti-communist, whereas in the Soviet Union authoritarians generally supported the Communist Party and were opposed to capitalism.[22] Authoritarians thus generally favor the established ways and oppose social and political change, hence even politics usually labeled as right or left-wing is not descriptive. While communism in the Soviet Union is seen as leftist, it still inspired the same responses.
The Communist Countries had strong Authoritarian Leaders that appealed to the Conservative Authoritarians followers
hence, they were not left wing nor liberal
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 26, 2018 - 10:00am PT
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Kinda like the unelected European Commission, huh?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 26, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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It's easy to see the 20% r so that the article describes on the right. It seems to me that there's an equal, utterly unthinking, close-minded group on the left.
You can get left wing authoritarianism but that doesn't seem to be how this country is going.
Some of the those, say down-and-out rust belt workers, who previously voted Dems left the party and voted for Trump. I'm sure there are various reasons why different voters switch but I would imagine a high percentage of those who did switch have various fears and want a strong man to tell them everything is going to be ok.
I don't think the Dems are in danger of going down the totalitarian road.
On the other hand, the Dems aren't immune from angry populist that are out of touch with reality. Sanders is the opening offer on that one.
The wonkish intellectuals and social justice warriors are going democrat and the anti-elites are going R. The 1% got their trillion dollar tax cut so they are still pretty gung-ho on the R's and the religious right got their Supreme Court pick.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 26, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Who is Rick Kantor?
Rick Can't-or-won't Answer
Oh yeah CFry: we can all get along if you just stop with the useless adherence to a single party to a broken system. Otherwise I won't ask you about cactus or mineral stuff, like ever. ;-)
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 26, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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right on bro
Is it Ok if I adhere to a 2 party system, like we have here?
or should I promote more parties
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 26, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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Yes Craig, not-bro (thanks for clarifying that, given that you and I voted for the same loser, just one of us is a bit straightlaced to be any fun), you may stay in your Democratic party rut. Maybe you'll steer out of it but I guess knot.
Yes, though one might consider (gasp!) UNITY PARTY 2020 Hickenlooper kasich sucka, one may yet be too dogmatic (yes that means no-fun closed mind party tardiesl like, aherm aherm, YOU) to entertain the sharing of a middle ground or the inherent necessity of further sacrifice of women's rights that is SO SO SO impordant to the Dems (hahahaha, cumrag interns anyone? weinstainage contributions, anyone?) to not-do, in the interest of the partisanat!
entertaining and revealing stuff that dorworth articule.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 26, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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That Dorworth link doesn't work.
Sorry, the first one does. Good article, but needs some paragraph breaks.
From the end of the article (credit where credit is due):
You see, there is this, then and now: It is reasonable to posit that if a large black male sporting an outsized, well-coifed Afro or Long-Plaited Dreadlocks, or any female flaunting any hair style, had behaved like Donald Trump at the ski school desk, police would have been immediately summoned and he/she would be, at the least, ejected from the building and told not to return.
That is America, and Donald Trump embodies it.
Don’t you think?
And what are you doing about IT?
Guess I'll vote twice (joke, as I live in Washington which has mail in voting which is great and the whole country should have it; verifiable ballots, no lines, lots of time to think). Maybe it's time to have a national voting standard; mail in would work great and save money and voters' time and not be hackable via electronic voting machines. Or maybe have voting on a weekend, Saturday and Sunday, so working people have an easier time of it. Maybe the Australian system, where you are required to vote, would be helpful. Nah, it would hurt the Republicans, whose goal is to actually reduce the number of (Democratic) voters.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 26, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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I think Trump would be open to a mail in vote since he has a mail-ordered bride...?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 26, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
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we are one inaugural first lady PPV tittay'sposay away from losing the next round due to buttoned down partisans, and all we have to offer is a post menopausal neolib? seriously craig-not-bro?
because that is like fatally not hawt. the people what have a larger hardon for her than you, well they just hate her.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 26, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
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It's interesting that two of Trump's wives, Ivana and Melania, are eastern European. Another Russian connection? Inquiring minds want to know........
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 26, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
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Yeah, time for some new blood. I just don't hear anyone out there. It's really time to get past the oldsters. Trump is in his senile decline; I don't want another old person (although I am) as president. Come on, someone, start making some noise.
Maybe add a requirement they can go up 1000 feet in an hour. That should be easy enough and it would get rid of Trump.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 26, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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Hey Fritz, it"s a good description of a personal encounter with da Man. What an idiot.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 26, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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Yeah...It's terrible that Donald has to put up with those drama queens and their narcissistic tantrums...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 26, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
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So, not surprising that Trump left an indelible mark on Mr. Dorworth.
I heard he almost cut his hair.
Almost cut my hair
Happened just the other day
It's gettin' kind of long
I could've said it was in my way
But I didn't and I wonder why
I feel like letting my freak flag fly
And I feel like I owe it, to someone, yeah
Must be because I had the flu this Christmas
BTW
A timeline of all the foreign payments to Donald Trump’s moneymen, Elliott Broidy and Michael Cohen
It's on Quartz Media
Don't have the link handy
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 26, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
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Yeah, time for some new blood. I just don't hear anyone out there. It's really time to get past the oldsters. Trump is in his senile decline; I don't want another old person (although I am) as president. Come on, someone, start making some noise.
Maybe add a requirement they can go up 1000 feet in an hour. That should be easy enough and it would get rid of Trump.
I think that anyone over the age of 65 should not be allowed to run for public office. Doesn't matter what political affiliation they claim.
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jstan
climber
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May 26, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
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If you look ahead a few years it is hard not to imagine Chinese power over far eastern events will be far increased over that which exists now. Lindbergh and "America Firsters" saw this already in the thirties. Un is playing very skillfully to this fact as he works to break South Korea's dependence upon the US as a guarantor of their independence.
On the other side Trump has very effectively shown that treaties signed by the US are now not worth the powder required to blow then to hell. It will be very interesting to see how the europeans deal with Trump's threat of future sanctions against our allies who try to keep the Iran agreement in play. The US is on track to have no allies.
Trump has shown one other thing. The US does not really need to have someone in the oval office. We could just rent the white house out.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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May 27, 2018 - 05:16am PT
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jstan:
If you look ahead a few years it is hard not to imagine Chinese power over far eastern events will be far increased over that which exists now. Chinese already have this power over Far East events.
In 10 to 20 years they will have the same power over the whole world.
On the other side Trump has very effectively shown that treaties signed by the US are now not worth the powder required to blow then to hell. American government (at least since the end of the II World War) has not bothered to stick to signed treaties.
Unilateral duties on Canadien softwood lumber imposed with complete disregard for trade agreements and WTO rulling by previous governments is a good example.
You can find plenty examples to understand that this is not an exception.
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Ashrogers
Gym climber
Arizona
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May 27, 2018 - 06:56am PT
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So whats about that?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 27, 2018 - 08:29am PT
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On the other side Trump has very effectively shown that treaties signed by the US are now not worth the powder required to blow then to hell.
Which treaties have been violated by Trump?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 27, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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Which treaties have been violated by Trump?
Edward is correct, President Trump has not, to my knowledge, caused any Treaties to be violated
the word treaty is reserved for an agreement that is made by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate (Article II, section 2, clause 2 of the Constitution);
agreements not submitted to the Senate are known as executive agreements
an example of a US Treaty would be between an Indian tribe and the US Government
a Treaty is often confused with an International Agreement
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dirtbag
climber
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May 27, 2018 - 09:45am PT
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This morning, Twump tweeted:
Who’s going to give back the young and beautiful lives (and others) that have been devastated and destroyed by the phony Russia Collusion Witch Hunt? They journeyed down to Washington, D.C., with stars in their eyes and wanting to help our nation...They went back home in tatters!
Yes, young and beautiful lives, like Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 27, 2018 - 09:49am PT
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The young and beautiful had dollar signs in their eyes and drool on their chins...
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Yeti
Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
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May 27, 2018 - 10:01am PT
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Fritz: Cerebrating, not celebrating. Thanks for the fix.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 27, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
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^^^^^ He's pissed that Hope won't return his calls anymore and he'll never get in there. ^^^^^^
Trump is so over Hope Hicks, his new "piece of meat" is 22 yo Caroline Sunshine
She has an impressive resume, starred on Disney Channel’s “Shake It Up,” AND had a role in the movie Marmaduke.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 27, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
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Yeti! Re your mention:
Fritz: Cerebrating, not celebrating. Thanks for the fix.
Sorry! Cerebrating went right over my head, since I had never read the word before.
It's still a great article, even if I misunderstood the title.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 27, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
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^^^lol!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 27, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
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So said the Germans after Sudetenland, Poland, the Maginot Line and right up to Stalingrad and Normandy.
The mastery of day trading and zero long view on full exhibit.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 27, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
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...the young and beautiful lives (and others)...
What I do not get is how he seems to think it is normal to separate categories of people. There is the "young and beautiful," and then "and others."
So bizarre, not simply that he values people on such superfluous levels(many people do), but that it is a primary signifier to him, and he seems to have absolutely no idea there may be other merits people might be considered on. Or, that people might be valued simply because they are living beings.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2018 - 03:53am PT
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hope that the Mueller investigation is going to come up with kind of a smoking gun
Your command of the English language is impaired, and is neither correct, nor coherent. I would give you a C- grade, based on your incomprehension of how to conjugate a sentence, with respect to time.
Your erroneous use of a future tense, about Smoking Guns to be found, in the future, is childishly incorrect, because Smoking Guns have already been found, in the past.
Your other statements were false.
In addition to illiteracy, you exhibit deception.
I'll set you up with my ex-girlfriend.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 28, 2018 - 06:32am PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2018 - 03:53am PT
hope that the Mueller investigation is going to come up with kind of a smoking gun
Your command of the English language is impaired, and is neither correct, nor coherent. I would give you a C- grade, based on your incomprehension of how to conjugate a sentence, with respect to time.
Your erroneous use of a future tense, about Smoking Guns to be found, in the future, is childishly incorrect, because Smoking Guns have already been found, in the past.
Your other statements were false.
In addition to illiteracy, you exhibit deception.
I'll set you up with my ex-girlfriend.
Thanks for spreading the joy.
No doubt, Ed Snowden caught your post and appreciated the sentiment.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 28, 2018 - 06:44am PT
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This is how Trump memorializes fallen soldiers; what a classy guy ........ You can't make this stuff up.
Happy Memorial Day! Those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. Best economy in decades, lowest unemployment numbers for Blacks and Hispanics EVER (& women in 18years), rebuilding our Military and so much more. Nice!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 28, 2018
Yep, Happy Memorial Day!!!!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 28, 2018 - 07:10am PT
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In this article, just published, John Schindler writes about how the FBI began their investigation into the 2016 Trump presidential campaign.
As I've been saying, John Schindler, and several others, have been putting out details on the story days, weeks, and months ahead of mainstream media. Well worth the read, whether it's the Observer series, @20Committee on Twitter or via blog, or (for those who have no interest in drama via trolls) the @TheSpyBrief premium channel.
NSA isn’t just the world’s most powerful intelligence agency, it’s the hub of the whole Western spy system. In late 2015, based on GCHQ reports, the word went out to NSA’s close friends and partners to be on the lookout for any intercepts touching on Russian efforts to infiltrate the Trump campaign. They found plenty. As the Guardian explained, in the first half of 2016, as Trump’s presidential bid gained unexpected steam, Australia, Germany, Estonia, and Poland all had SIGINT hits that indicated a troubling relationship between Trump and Moscow. So, too, did the French and the Dutch—the latter being an especially savvy SIGINT partner of NSA’s.
http://observer.com/2018/05/what-did-the-fbi-do-in-2016-about-russian-connections-to-donald-trump/
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 28, 2018 - 07:48am PT
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It's obvious what's going down ..Just listen what Trump blurts out and it's guaranteed the opposite is true..Rudy Tourette Guiliani can't keep his trap shut continuing to blow Trump's cover.. More distractions to divert attention from the fact that Trump is up to his neck in swamp doo doo...
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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May 28, 2018 - 09:41am PT
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Your command of the English language is impaired, and is neither correct, nor coherent. I would give you a C- grade, based on your incomprehension of how to conjugate a sentence, with respect to time.
Your erroneous use of a future tense, about Smoking Guns to be found, in the future, is childishly incorrect, because Smoking Guns have already been found, in the past.
Your other statements were false.
In addition to illiteracy, you exhibit deception.
Tom, the words were Snowden's from the piece--not mine. Quotation marks and italics just to make sure the slow kids could follow along. Apparently you're slower than most.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 28, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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Ever wondered
What song is Trump listening to right now?
You niggers listen now
I'm gonna tell you how
To keep from getting torchered
When the Klan is on the prowl
Stay at home at night
And lock your doors up tight
Don't go outside or else you'll find
Those crosses-a-burnin' bright
Now I know you won't believe me
So I'm gonna tell you why
The Kajun Ku Klux Klan
Is gonna get you by and by
I'm warnin' you that when I'm through
You're gonna change your tune
This story's 'bout a nigger
His name was Levi Coon
Read more: Johnny Rebel - Kajun Ku Klux Klan Lyrics | MetroLyrics
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 28, 2018 - 08:50pm PT
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Aside from poor context, grammar and vocabulary, our president is a Russian mole.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 29, 2018 - 04:27am PT
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zBrown
Ice climber
May 28, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
Ever wondered
What song is Trump listening to right now?...
What motivated you to post that trash?
What's your point?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 29, 2018 - 04:45am PT
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Yesterday I went to meet, and thank in person, Claude Taylor. He is a photographer who was doing the New Paltz Craft Festival as part of his show circuit.
He also has worked on three presidential campaigns, and was part of the Clinton White House as Director of Volunteers, and is on Twitter as @TrueFactsStated.
I wanted to go see him and shake his hand. I found him on Twitter back in January 2017, right around the time of the presidential inauguration. I can't remember what search it was that led me to one of his tweets; just that the tweet made the difference between a feeling of depression over what laid ahead in our country, now with an idiot at the helm of a GOP-controlled legislature,(at this time the "Trump/Russia" connection was ONLY, in MSM, a one-day mention back in early autumn), and a shock to understand there was real potential our country had been seriously undermined.
He tweeted about the first set of sealed indictments at least two weeks before the press did, and he stayed on top of it. By the time I heard ANYTHING pertaining to Trump/Russia in the news, I was like "Wait. That's old news...." It was a little strange, to be honest.
He and a few others were collaborating on research. They tracked flights and the travel lists of people on them. It seemed soooo cryptic and weird. And guess what - has been proven to be accurate in connecting some of the dots as to who was where when what went down.
So, yesterday, I didn't ask him for any new scoops. It seems he has passed that phase anyway. Nowdays he spends his twitter time fundraising for statewide Democrat campaigns and running Mad Dog PAC, which he founded, and which has gained attention for it's pissing off of several GOP's who've had billboards exposing their particular brand of toxic governing placed in well-trafficked corridors of their constituents. He sells t-shirts and other things to help boost the donations rate. The newest thing is a Commemorative Coin, two sided, that parodies the Trump/Kim coin.
I just thanked him, and he said "It's been our pleasure." And he assured me that we ARE making progress, that the depth of the deception WILL be exposed, and that we WILL get through it. He also said, which I think most of us can already see, that details are being exposed on a near daily basis, and there is much, much, more that will surface. But the thing to keep in mind is that it is over, at least from the side of the Trump campaign people. They have been stopped. Whatever it was they were supposed to do to receive the payments/benefits, or were blackmailed into, has been halted. He knows much of the entire story, and says outright it is much more sinister than simply a narcisitic man trying to get it up one more time with a Trump Tower in Moscow.
So - that was that. I haven't supported the Mad Dog PAC yet, but this payday I am going to buy a t-shirt that has the GOP as a logo, with the USSR sickle and wheat sheaves as the "O." The billboards it helps support will help in the mid-term elections. https://maddogpac.com/
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 29, 2018 - 04:50am PT
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Trumps Tweet 22 minutes ago:
Sorry, I’ve got to start focusing my energy on North Korea Nuclear, bad Trade Deals, VA Choice, the Economy, rebuilding the Military, and so much more, and not on the Rigged Russia Witch Hunt that should be investigating Clinton/Russia/FBI/Justice/Obama/Comey/Lynch etc.
I guess he got told in no uncertain terms that if he didn't act more presidential on Twitter they were going to take his phone away for real this time.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 29, 2018 - 05:04am PT
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LOL Last night, my fifteen year-old daughter said the same thing. "Take his phone away."
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 29, 2018 - 06:07am PT
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Yesterday I contacted the White House via email asking exactly that; please just stop tweeting, as well as some other comments. Guess the Secret Service will be watching me now! But seriously, I did ask the President to act more maturely although I suspect he just might reject my input......
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 29, 2018 - 06:41am PT
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Sometimes I post stuff just to hear the whiners whine. It seems that, like Trump, they don't get enough attention.
Anyway, that song was written by one of the 'good' people who support trump and he felt proud enough about it to post it on line. It wouldn't surprise me if trump had listened to it.
Maybe I can prevail on Obama to tap his eight track player.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 29, 2018 - 06:41am PT
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Happi
If you want a good source of info, you should subscribe to Sirius Radio
and then listen to channel 127, Progressive Radio
$10.99 a month
24 hours of liberal talk a day
I've been listening to progressive radio since 2003 in one form or another
It puts you way in front of the curve for being informed
Stephanie Miller and Thom Hartmann are just fantastic
I can't listen to NPR anymore after being so spoiled
anyone else listen to it here?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 29, 2018 - 06:50am PT
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dirtbag
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 07:09am PT
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24 hours of liberal talk a day
That’s as unhealthy as 24 hour faux news. News bubbles will be the death of America.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 29, 2018 - 07:21am PT
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BS, how would you know, have you listened to it?
No listens to it 24 hours a day
it's reality check radio
someone needs to be the voice of reailty
if you find one thing they say is untrue, then you can complain
and fer f sake, can't anyone admit anything w/o the someone jumping down yer throat
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 29, 2018 - 07:26am PT
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A lot bigger news going on in Italy right now but you wouldn’t know it reading this drivel.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 29, 2018 - 07:33am PT
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The pope come out of the closet..?
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dirtbag
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 07:34am PT
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In limited doses I’m sure it’s fine.
Otherwise, news bubbles are ruinous.
“Hey, let’s listen only to stuff we agree with.”
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 29, 2018 - 07:35am PT
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This seems sort of significant:
At a time when acts of defiance against the Trump administration are routine in Sacramento, the rebuke that breezed through the California Assembly this month still came as a jolt. Even Trump loyalists in the chamber joined in.
The message to the administration was clear: Forget about your plan to unleash on freeways a class of rebuilt trucks that spew as much as 400 times the choking soot that conventional new big rigs do. Getting caught behind the wheel of one of these mega-polluters in California would carry a punishing $25,000 minimum fine under the measure that lawmakers passed 73 to 0. It had the support of 25 Republicans.
"This was a reaction," said Chris Shimoda, vice president of government affairs for the California Trucking Assn., which sponsored the legislation. "A lot of people have made the investments to clean up their trucks. They don't want to see an obvious loophole that allows others to be gross polluters and undercut them."
..."We urge you to consider the adverse impact on the economy," said a letter that the Environmental Protection Agency recently disclosed from the Republican senators of Indiana, West Virginia and North Carolina. They warned EPA chief Scott Pruitt that the plan is ill-advised and disruptive to industry. Ten House Republicans concurred in their own letter, which warned the proposal is a potential job-killer. "We respectfully ask that you carefully consider the negative impacts," the GOP lawmakers wrote.
Lots of interesting points in the article.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-pruitt-polluting-trucks-20180528-story.html
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 29, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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Trump and cone of silence Pruitt the environmental terrorists...
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Trump
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 10:20am PT
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From the failing CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/29/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller-demonize/index.html
Trump winning the fight to demonize Mueller?! That can’t be right. I keep waiting for reality to validate my genius over that idiot Trump, and reality keeps failing to do so!
First that stupid reality elected him president against my will and better judgment and political analysis, and now reality is saying that idiot is successfully working on a way to escape the results of Mueller’s findings?!
Stupid reality. In a contest between whether reality is right or I’m right, I win every time!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 29, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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Rudy Tourette Guiliani can't keep his trap shut continuing to blow Trump's cover..
And now that Guiliani has blown Trump's cover on multiple occasions Trump supporters are deserting him in droves.
Oh wait...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 29, 2018 - 10:53am PT
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A lot bigger news going on in Italy right now but you wouldn’t know it reading this drivel.
The news that the anti-EU populists in Italy couldn't form a government is actually probably good news, at least in the short term.
But it might only be a temporary setback for the populists bent on causing mayhem and destruction.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 29, 2018 - 11:30am PT
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A lot bigger news going on in Italy right now but you wouldn’t know it reading this drivel.
The Dow took note and dropped 450
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 29, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
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The news in Italy is another data point that people around the world are increasingly making isolationist decisions in response to their economic struggles. Many people seek scapegoats and are goaded into political positions by us/them arguments and hollow unreasonable promises. It's fine to recognize when one is dissatisfied; but that is useless if one does not take the additional step of considering what will really lead to satisfaction and making strides in that direction.
From my perspective, it would be more effective if people placed greater value on campaign finance and media transparency reforms, and finding better ways to balance capitalistic reward with socially-sustainable policies of rich/poor disparity.
Gutting regulations to maximize short-term corporate profit is going to drive our society into the ground, and the locust corporations will pick up and head elsewhere when they have razed our society. Then the present 1st and 2nd world can become the new 3rd world of unemployed desperate people ready to work for nothing to power the growth of other countries exploiting us. Like a big long-term global convection cycle of prosperity and poverty.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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This guy is Trump Lite.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/29/politics/eric-greitens-missouri-governor/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/us/eric-greitens-resigns.html
Last month, a House investigation found that he subjected a woman to non-consensual sexual activity and violence. Like his role-model Trump, he dismissed the factual findings as "tabloid trash gossip" rooted in "lies and falsehoods."
In late April, Governor Greitens (a Republican) was felony indicted for computer tampering and data theft related to his 2016 election campaign. Greitens, an ex-Navy SEAL, stole a donor list from a veterans' charity, and pestered people on the list for campaign contributions.
A separate felony invasion-of-privacy charge against Mr. Greitens was dropped earlier this month, right before it was to go to trial. In that case, Greitens took a nude photo of a woman without her permission, and then threatened to blackmail her with it to prevent disclosure of their illicit sexual activity.
Greitens resigned after learning of a special legislative session to impeach him. He continues to deny that he did anything improper, wrong, or illegal.
When announcing his resignation, he wouldn't take questions from reporters, but he did make a Trump-like statement of delusion:
"We have a good and proud story to tell our children."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 29, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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“Gutting regulations?” How about living beyond yer means as a nation and expecting yer neighbors to bail you out? You can’t have everyone retiring at 50. It just doesn’t work. Italy is like Greece, only 10 times worse. This could get ugly.
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Jorroh
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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'living beyond yer means as a nation"
What does that actually mean?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 29, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
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Does a 20 Trillion in Republican National Debt and another >1.5 trillion per decade qualify as living beyond their means
Economists predict the National debt to increase even further than the usual trickle down predictions have claimed
doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result, Trickle down = insanity
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WTF is with Trump demanding that defense spending go up, and education and other domestic spending go down? The U.S. is already the most highly militarized nation, by a big margin.
A sensible leader would want to invest in peace-time science and technology, like, say, clean energy, to empower future industries. Some by-product from military spending occurs, but in the meantime, all we have for our money are over-priced engines of death, which trigger-happy fools like John Bolton would like to use.
Trump seems to think that there is no way to win the economic war with China, so he wants to revert to a 1930s-era tactic of economic belligerence coupled with heavy military spending.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
The Supreme Court, in Citizens United, ruled that money talks, talk is a form of speech, and freedom of speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. So, anyone, or anything (such as a corporation) shall not be stopped from exercising their freedom to spend money, such as to influence elections and politicians.
In a related twist of illogic, in the same case, the Supreme Court ruled that freedom of speech principles should be applied to a listener, and not just to a speaker. In other words, a listener has the freedom to hear whatever speech is available to him. Therefore, a corporate message can't be stifled, simply because a corporation has no constitutional rights. Corporations must be allowed to communicate a message, because intended listeners have a constitutional right to hear that message.
The next thing the Supreme Court of Dolts will rule is that foreign powers, such as Russia, can operate under the same logic as corporations, and can spend as much money as the want to influence elections and politicians.
Dastardly Donald, and Malevolent Michael, for the win.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 29, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
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The original Tea Party was mostly opposed to any new spending or taxes and fought for balanced budgets. Their body was quickly infected by Republicans with a zombie virus called corporate whorism. The disease also goes by the name "Freedom Caucus".
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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May 29, 2018 - 04:51pm PT
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feel free to pick up the slack for them Reilly. ;-)
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 29, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
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“them”
Lol
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Trump
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
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I don’t get it. The political idiots get themselves elected president while the political geniuses become posters on Supertopo. I blame reality’s misunderstanding of reality. No need for me to change my thinking!
Smoke ‘em if you’ve got ‘em!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 29, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
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your not honestly concerned about 'living beyond means' nationally unless your first and foremost an anti-war anti-military advocate
true Xcon, in addition to taxing the massive profits churches rake in
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 29, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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“Gutting regulations?” How about living beyond yer means as a nation and expecting yer neighbors to bail you out? You can’t have everyone retiring at 50. It just doesn’t work. Italy is like Greece, only 10 times worse. This could get ugly.
'living beyond yer means as a nation"
What does that actually mean?
This is a ripe area for discussion. Let's focus on Reilly's point about "retiring at 50". Just this morning my wife (who came to USA from Italy about 12 years ago) said "if you can make it to 50 in Italy, you are basically set." This was in the context of a discussion about how people in America don't seem to plan or save for retirement. I made the point that many people consider it hopeless because all the planning goes out the window if you have a low-paying job and multiple kids to send to college (a contestable argument), or anyone in your family has a major medical issue that drains your life savings. People either can barely survive in the present based on their perceived material needs, or they think that no amount of saving will protect them from expenses outside of their control, so they ignore saving for retirement.
My wife's response was that, in Italy, houses are relatively less expensive and most people can afford to buy and pay off any loans on a house before they retire... there are no major debts related to sending kids to college, or medical expenses. So people can survive on very little in their retirement years- and government paid pensions are very high compared to Social Security in America. This of course, presumes a government that provides education and medical care an retirement coverage.
And here we have the rubber meeting the road in the "living beyond our means" argument. If the average person consumes more resources from the government than they pay in taxes over their lifetime, how can the government survive? I haven't looked at the numerical details, but I would be interested to see lifetime deposits vs withdrawals of the average citizen with respect to the Italian government.
One aside from this discussion, is how much money is squandered by cronyism and corruption. For example, Berlusconi giving coveted political positions to attractive models who provided him sexual favors, and these positions come with very high lifetime pensions. Another aspect is how much money is lost to mafia/business/government schemes to divert national funds to private interests.
This is all very relevant for America too, to see what real data-driven models look like for lifetime pay-ins vs resource consumptions of the average American. Considering education as an "expense" is ridiculous and short-sighted because higher education is correlated with higher lifetime income and thus high pay-ins for taxes. As such, education should be seen as an investment by the government, just a like a person puts money in an asset that appreciates over time. It's not the same as blowing money on popcorn and coke at a movie. Similarly, investments in social causes that improve the socio-economic status of people are an investment if they result in greater employment and tax revenue, and reduced crime and law enforcement and incarceration costs.
But, our politicians are elected on 4/6 year cycles, and aim for numbers in those timeframes while the long-term benefits of education and socio-economic uplift programs are measured in decades. Our type of short-term planning leads us into the toilet, and is one reason why China is making better strides to advance their society than we are. They can afford to take the long view and make decisions that lead to better outcomes rather than what looks best before the next election.
If we were able to do multi-decade financial planning as a nation, we would invest in more:
education at all levels (public pre-K, K-12, university, trade schools)
socio-economic uplift programs to give paths out of generational patterns of poverty and non-contribution to society. Figure out what sorts of investments lead to more people getting engaged in their communities and in gainful employment
corporate stimulus is good, but removing regulations that protect individuals and the environment are not. Carefully weigh the outcomes from giving X dollars for corporate stimulus (to indirectly stimulate private sector job creation, which has a very shaky track record), vs. directly creating government jobs that improve some aspect of humanity/society.
infrastructure renewal projects (creating jobs that generate cash flowing through local communities and being spent multiple times, giving employment to more people and generating more tax revenues with each exchange of the money)
The path of increased law enforcement and military spending while locking down everything else to a society that very few people want to be a part of. But somehow, this is the goal of one of our major parties, and the ideology has the support of almost half of our country.
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WBraun
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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We already know what YOU do with your free time.
You waste it on this st00pid horesh!t to brainwash your head.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 29, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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I guess the world is filled with all types.
I feel compelled in these political threads to exchange ideas and consider what would make the world a better place.
I don't see the attraction of calling each other names or insulting each other. It's on par with smearing your feces on the wall in terms of emotional and intellectual development.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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May 29, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
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Great post Nutagain, even a duck could appreciate it.
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WBraun
climber
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May 29, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
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I always appreciate Nutagain's posts but not that hypocrite old goat frostback .....
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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May 29, 2018 - 06:35pm PT
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Thank you NutAgain!!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 30, 2018 - 06:11am PT
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How many years does a president have to serve to qualify for worst ever...?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 30, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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Nut, a thoughtful post, as always, and a propos anecdoctal evidence, if somewhat faulty. Italy’s real estate situation, as I’m sure you know, is not friendly to the young, hence so many 30 somethings living with Momma dearest. Secondly, one of the major sources of Italy’s woes is their banks’ high percentage of non-performing loans. They’ve done yeoman’s work on shoring up the banks these last few years and have reduced their non-performing loan portfolios considerably. Unfortunately, all this idiotic populism talk about leaving the Euro has caused investors to flea in droves for fear of the whole banking segment going tits up. Most Ite bank stocks are now trading at well below book value - true bargains if you can stomach the risk! Even crazier is the Ite bond market. Who in their right mind would buy Ite debt given the extreme risk of forfeiture? Currently 10 yr Ite gubmint bonds are selling at 3% - the same as US! Seriously? Look to that to double sooner than later, although I’m not sure 6% provides enough of a risk premium for me.
OK, back to our regularly scheduled ad hominum meaningless non sequitors.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 30, 2018 - 07:43am PT
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I very much doubt Trump even knows they are American citizens in Pweerto Reeeko as he pronounces it
The US President is a racist, everyone knows it, and those island people ain't white
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dirtbag
climber
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May 30, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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Stephen miller, Steve Bannon and Jeff sessions approve.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 30, 2018 - 11:54am PT
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bush ran up a 5 trillion dollar tab for the Iraq fiasco
im told Reagan did worse but its in aggregate
those are the bar's you gotta reach to be in the running for worst...
For financial damage, you might be right about Bush. That is a lot of money that could have gone to health care, or children's education or rebuilding infrastructure.
But the biggest damage Trump is doing, in my opinion, is to our political norms. Trump didn't invent the echo-chamber, or fake news, or tribalism, or corruption, or authoritarianism, or kindergarten attacks on opponents...
But he has amped all those up. He is doing Nixon style damage to our political system that is actually going to be harder to recover from than the financial damage from the Iraq war.
When the investigation into Nixon was getting towards its end, Nixon resigned in the face of impeachment.
If it turns out that the Mueller report shows that Trump has indeed done equivalent, high crimes and misdemeanors, I'm expecting a big "so what" from Republicans and Trump staying in office.
I hope I'm wrong on that...
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 30, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
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tRump’s attention span is pretty short (like a 4 year old). As his 6 bankruptcies and attrition rate attest, he has no long term planning or management skills. He will make his friends and family richer in the short term, and then bail leaving the economy in tatters. Typical GOP.
Hope they save enough for their legal bills.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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America is about to enter the querencia phase of its existence.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/business/volcker-rule-banks-federal-reserve.html
The 2008 financial crisis was such a great success in shifting wealth upward, the Trump administration is firing up the big banks, so that they can do it all over again.
The banking regulations put in place to prevent another 2008 event are being rolled back. This necessarily indicates that the banks will, again, behave as corporate psychopaths. They will callously fixate on enriching executives and shareholders, oblivious to any injury to society.
Deregulation is equivalent to lawlessness, so it is not surprising that a president who has no regard for the law would want to deregulate banks, to the peril of the nation.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
People aren't falling for the trickle-down economic scam, any more than they are falling for the trumped-up Spygate scam.
The trickle-down scam is being forced upon the nation. The trickle-down rhetoric is repeated as part of a demented ritual, wherein those in power falsely and deceptively assure the people that they will benefit from pro-corporation policies.
The people aren't falling for the scam. They are powerless to stop it.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 30, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
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It is amazing that people are still falling for the “trickle down” economics scam.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 30, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
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NY Times Columnist Thomas Friedman calls Code Red - DO NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/30/1768182/-NY-Times-Columnist-Thomas-Friedman-calls-Code-Red-DO-NOT-VOTE-FOR-REPUBLICANS
I don’t write this easily. On many non-social, non-environmental issues, I’m not a card-carrying Democrat. I favor free trade, fiscal discipline, pro-business regulations, a democracy-expanding foreign policy, and I have an aversion to identity politics.
...what we’ve learned since 2016 is that the worst Democrat on the ballot for the House or Senate is preferable to the best Republican, because the best Republicans have consistently refused to take a moral stand against Trump’s undermining of our law enforcement and intelligence agencies, the State Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Civil Service, the basic norms of our public life and the integrity of our elections.
[The Democrats] job is to get hold of at least one lever of power — the House or the Senate — in order to oust the most corrupt Republican lawmakers who lead key committees, to properly oversee the most reckless cabinet secretaries, like Scott Pruitt, and to protect the F.B.I., the Justice Department and Robert Mueller from Trump’s intimidation.
Again, this is Code Red: American democracy is truly threatened today — by the man sitting in the Oval Office and the lawmakers giving him a free pass.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 30, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
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Tom,
I don’t agree. After tRump and the GOP threw the 99% under the bus with his tax cuts, his supporters still think he is a genius. They are all in.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 30, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
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Friedman is 100% right.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2018 - 03:31pm PT
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StahlBro,
Do Trump's supporters think he's a genius, or are they just blindly supporting him because he's not Hillary?
They run from a snake, and fall off a cliff.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 30, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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DT actually Tweeted that HE never got a phone call from ABC executives with an apology when someone said TERRIBLE things about HIM on their broadcast.
It's almost asking too much to believe he really is THAT obtuse.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 30, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
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America has put a fourth grader in the White House
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 30, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
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WBraun
climber
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May 30, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
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I can't wait for more st00pid Trump tweets so the politards will flip out again and go insane ......heh heh heh
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 30, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
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Tom,
I agree with that. Also, I think there is embarrassment factor. It is hard to admit that you made such bad mistake.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 30, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 30, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
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New book coming out about the Mueller investigation, it is called the Russian Hoax, you can find it in the Fiction, Fantasy section of your book store. Written by a Fox News fluffer, a real class act
this is him in action
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2018 - 10:50pm PT
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Trump pulled a "Spygate" fantasy out of thin air. There is no evidence that his trumped-up lies have any basis in reality. Republicans, such as Trey Gowdy, have joined Democrats in assuring the public that there is no basis, in fact, regarding Trump's false statements about an FBI spy infiltrating his 2016 election campaign.
https://newrepublic.com/minutes/148595/trey-gowdy-rejects-trumps-spygate-theory
http://time.com/5295321/trey-gowdy-fbi-spy-campaign/
The FBI pulled a shredder machine containing documents out of Michael Cohen's office. There is no doubt that the contents of the shredder exist, and that the FBI is now working to restore the damaged documents. "Shreddergate" is based on facts, physical evidence, and what will soon be coherent evidence used by prosecutors in a court of law to obtain convictions.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/prosecutors-michael-cohen-case-piecing-together-shredded-documents-raid-n878646
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal-prosecutors-poised-to-get-more-than-1-million-files-seized-from-michael-cohens-phones/2018/05/29/ff407104-63b1-11e8-99d2-0d678ec08c2f_story.html?noredirect=on
Oh, ye, of little faith, it is cognition that has led you astray.
-Trumpinthians 6:96
It is faith, and a lack of cognition, that has brought you before this court of law.
Judgements 1:2:3
For a Trump statement, it means an excuse conjoined with a false accusation.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Melania hasn't been heard from, or seen in public, for three weeks . . .
. . . it took that long for Team Trump to hack into her Twitter account, and post a fake Tweet.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2018 - 11:21pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A late night tryst might comprise a cheeseburger, Trump, Hannity (on the phone), and Rosy.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 31, 2018 - 05:57am PT
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If you want a good source of info, you should subscribe to Sirius Radio
and then listen to channel 127, Progressive Radio
John Schindler is live on that right about now, according to his Twitter.
Alert: He's not a Lefty, Libtard or Socialist. He's actually Republican.
And in very staunch opposition to the Trump Trainwreck. You see, it's not just a Libtard thing; it's an Ability to Think Critically. I feel bad for people who want to trust their party(most of us do) and then have something like what is happening right now. It's defies belief, really, and considering that when Obama was in the WH, the baloney about birthplace was "news," I CAN understand how this whole Trump-Russia thing sounds just preposterous.
It sounds preposterous, because it is preposterous. Unfortunately, it's real.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 31, 2018 - 06:15am PT
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John Schindler is live on that right about now, according to his Twitter.
Alert: He's not a Lefty, Libtard or Socialist. He's actually Republican.
About your guy, John Schindler:
http://blackbag.gawker.com/the-crazy-emails-that-took-down-nsa-spook-john-schindle-1610203101
Remember John Schindler, the conservative talking head, retired NSA spook, and Naval War College professor who briefly went incognito after screenshots of (what appear to be) his penis leaked onto the Internet? While he has since reappeared on Twitter—where he first drew attention for defending domestic spying and criticizing Edward Snowden—he has refused to comment on the mysterious emails, sent to the Naval War College by an unnamed blogger, that prompted the school to place him on leave, and his penis under official investigation.
The emails sent to NWC, which Gawker obtained under a Freedom of Information Act request, refer to Schindler’s habit of calling himself a “spy”; detail his correspondence with an unnamed woman (who apparently received his penis photo); and, in a lengthy missive, accuse Schindler of staging “cyber warfare” against his online enemies, using “thuggish tactics” to silence NSA critics, and violating various federal laws.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 31, 2018 - 06:32am PT
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EdwardT - Yes, the penis picture happened. He has written about it on occasion in his blog and twitter feed. It's not some dark secret your source worked to uncover.
Yes, he sometimes writes things that I find distasteful. He sometimes posts to detracting comments, what I consider bullying things. He would probably fit in here at Supertopo, if he climbed.
Maybe that's the Republican in him!(Sorry, best I can do on a joke right now).
I don't like that he pulls the low-level "communications" of bullying. I don't like it when people here do it either.
But his credentials are real, and he's been shown to be accurate.
But feel free to dismiss him whole cloth, if those things are too much to stomach.
Of course....that begs the question as to why the "Schindler Flaws" disqualify him as a source of reference while Donald Trump is acceptable as a leader of the country. Care to explain such a contradiction?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 31, 2018 - 06:59am PT
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Of course....that begs the question as to why the "Schindler Flaws" disqualify him as a source of reference while Donald Trump is acceptable as a leader of the country. Care to explain such a contradiction?
Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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May 31, 2018 - 07:13am PT
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Of course....that begs the question as to why the "Schindler Flaws" disqualify him as a source of reference while Donald Trump is acceptable as a leader of the country. Care to explain such a contradiction?
Ask someone who thinks Trump is an acceptable leader.
And for you, Gary:
“Twentieth century communism, fascism, and movement that tried to create a new man ends up committing atrocities, ends up committing mass murder. If there are any historians here, but as far as I understand it most left wing revolutions have ended in mass murder because you have this utopia, people don’t go along because you got human nature incorrectly, they don’t go along, but you know you’re right because you have reason on your side, so you use force, and you use more force, and you use more force, and you end up like Cuba, or North Korea, or the other communist revolutions. It doesn’t work.”
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 31, 2018 - 07:25am PT
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I heard some of John Schindler's talk this morning
He is credible, that's why they want to smear him
Trump has been laundering Russian and other Countries mafia money for years
Mueller has all the evidence
Trump is nothing more than a Mafia Don
on another note,
anyone hear Trump's Klan rally speech he gave in Tennessee?
wow
"We have the worst laws in the world!
our laws are the worst in the world..." That is not patriotic speech, that is a tyrant talking
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 31, 2018 - 09:06am PT
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And for you, Gary:
Hi, EdwardT, may I a recommend a book? Socialism by Michael Harrington. You'll learn what socialism IS and what it ISN'T. You'll be surprised. You'll learn how the term has been misused and misrepresented over the years. After, we can discuss the quote in your post.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 31, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
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Anyone that thinks Trump is comparable to any recent president of either party is in denial. The things we have heard Trump say or tweet are far more dishonest, sexist, racist, and he is actively trying to damage the publics trust in the media and law enforcement to cover up his own lies and corruption.
Sure most national dems and reps lie and abuse the system. But Trump has taken it to a whole other level.
Again, he could literally shoot someone in public and many people would still justify supporting him. You can't reason with that level of denial.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
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Egypt has a political crisis.
Millions of people are the Queen of Denial.
Stormy Daniels' attorney has been rebuked by New York Federal Judge Kimba Wood. She said Michael Avenatti must "stop his publicity tour", or withdraw himself from her courtroom.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/30/politics/avenatti-cohen-publicity-tour/index.html
You know the legal feeding frenzy is becoming too crowded when attorneys voluntarily leave the fray.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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May 31, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
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"We have triumphed over evil like nobody has seen before."
Spoken on May 29th in Nashville Tennessee by the greatest man who has ever lived.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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May 31, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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"We have triumphed over evil like nobody has seen before."
wait just a little while...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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"We have triumphed over evil like nobody has seen before."
That is like the serial killer cannibal Jeffery Dahmer saying,
"Nobody likes young gay men more than I do."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/us/politics/dsouza-pardon.html
“Donald Trump has sent a message to his friends and cronies that if you break laws to protect him or attack our democracy, he’s got your back,” said David Donnelly, president of the watchdog group Every Voice. “Contribution limits are a key bulwark against corruption in politics, and pardoning the man who knowingly violated them is in direct conflict with his pledge to drain the swamp in Washington.”
Trump's swamp makes the Everglades look like a backyard kiddie pool.
Avenatti
Trump has already pardoned Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Dick Cheney's chief of staff, who had illegally revealed the identity a CIA agent to punish her husband, who had, correctly, said that Iraq had not sought to obtain uranium from Africa.
Trump also wants to pardon:
A former stock broker who engaged in insider stock trading to achieve massive profits.
A governor of Illinois who was convicted of 18 counts of corruption, including trying to sell a Senate seat.
This Trump circus will go around and around and around, until Robert Mueller reaches his hand out, and grabs the brass ring.
With a very unpleasing sneezing and wheezing, the caliope crashed to the ground.
Bruce Springsteen
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 31, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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"I say publicity tour not in a derogatory sense," the judge told Avenatti. "You’re entitled to publicity. I can’t stop you. Unless you’re participating in a matter before me."
At a hearing Wednesday in Manhattan, U.S. District Judge Kimba Wood said Avenatti’s public clashes with Trump’s longtime personal attorney and "fixer" Michael Cohen, whose business and finances are being investigated, could taint a jury if charges are ever filed.
"I can’t stop you, unless you’re participating in a matter before me," Wood said to Avenatti in the packed courtroom. But she added if he wants a seat at the courtroom table, he’d have to cut out the media appearances and stop talking about Cohen’s guilt.
"That means you would have to stop doing some of the things you’ve been doing," Wood said.e Here
Can we get a Warble here?
Sally Field has weighed in on Samantha Bee calling Ivanka Trump a “feckless c**t” on her show “Full Frontal With Samantha Bee” on Wednesday night.
The 71-year-old tweeted on Thursday afternoon that Bee was wrong to call the first daughter a “cunt.”
“C#&%s are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest,” Field wrote.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 31, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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When DT said he would "drain the swamp," I guess he meant he was going to shake down the swamp.
We can tick that one off as Another Campaign Promise Kept!"
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 31, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
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Swamps are actually productive and full of life. tRump is replacing them with lifeless toxic waste dumps.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 31, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
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Ah, Sally Field. She had me at Absence of Malice, 1981, with Paul Newman. Two thumbs up!
I can confirm...
"I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a c#&%. C#&%s are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest." -Sally Field, tweet
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 31, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
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Anyone that thinks Trump is comparable to any recent president of either party is in denial
You bet. I'm waiting for Trump to invade Iraq (oops, Syria) on spurious advice from the CIA. And I'm eagerly awaiting him deflowering some innocent maiden in the Oval Office. Count the days, fans!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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May 31, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
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I always like the film, "My Fellow Americans". Some good actors and some funny moments.
As for living in the US, it has been years, but I still try and to keep in touch. As for living in the EU,,, some comments are just plain ridiculous. Get a clue.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 31, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
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yes, Monica Lewinski was hardly unwilling
Jan 28, 1998 - Andy Bleiler, who presented the details of his years with Lewinsky through his ... when Lewinsky first left for Washington, she vowed "to get my presidential kneepads.
-----------------------
Bill Clinton was always a cheating sleaze to Hillary, way back as governor of Ark
so what if he and Monica were enjoying messing around privately?
Lying? yes Bill lied about it, he had a wife and young daughter he did not want to embarrass, damn near any man would have lied
-------------
Is beating and raping your wife, Ivana, a crime? not according Donald Trump's lawyer
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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May 31, 2018 - 05:08pm PT
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...deflowering some innocent maiden in the Oval Office
If you are referring to Clinton's behavior with Monica Lewinksi - while I think Clinton was sleazy - Ms. Lewinski was far from an innocent maiden. She authored an autobiography, and it details her earlier affair with a professor or maybe even someone higher up(I forget) at the college she attended. That man, too, was married. She also detailed some of her earlier acting out in sexual ways.
That's not to excuse Clinton, but really - your statement infers his behavior when it comes to extramarital sexual encounters is somehow something Trump can only aspire to.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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Ivankunt
She sold a tape recording of herself, ostensibly as a number of empowering suggestions for people engaged in business. She, like her father, said something to effect of:
If the person you are doing business with is mistaken about a certain detail of the deal, don't be afraid to just let them believe what they believe.
In other words, Ivankunt suggested that if one party to a deal is deceived or confused, the opposing party to the deal should remain silent, and benefit from the deception or confusion.
Ivankunt also forced a family-owned jewelry making business to sue her, twice, to obtain payment for goods that Ivankunt received, and then sold for a profit. After the courts ruled that she had to pay for the jewelry, her attorneys demanded that Ivankunt's AutoCAD drawings of the jewelry be returned before payment was made. Ivankunt then delayed and delayed making the required payment, claiming that the returned AutoCAD drawings were in some other, allegedly non-acceptable format (perhaps, AutoCAD 2000, vs. AutoCAD 2008). Eventually, the court ruled, again, that she had to pay for the goods that had been delivered.
Ivankunt perverted the legal system as a vexatious litigant in the hope that she could deplete her opponent's monetary resources, and cause them to abandon their just cause.
Ivankunt was also sued by an Italian shoe manufacturer for copyright infringement, after she blatantly copied a design, and sold it as her own.
Those are just two instances, that I know of, when Ivankunt was a kunt.
Here are more stories, including a Federal filing for fraud and money-laundering related to her jewelry business, which has apparently been shut down. I Googled to find references for the above two incidents, and instead found all of this:
http://www.newsweek.com/ivanka-trump-diamonds-caught-alleged-money-laundering-scheme-757168
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5130359/Ivankas-jewelry-line-sued-20K-missed-payments.html
http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/ivanka-trump-a-timeline-of-copying-and-litigation
Ivankunt is a chip off the old blockhead.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 31, 2018 - 05:26pm PT
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another what about
what about Clinton..
what about Bush...
what about Obama..
wahta bout hillay..
can we focus on the problem we have at this time?
If you need to 'what about' when you make a judgment call on the issue at hand then you need to evaluate your moral standards
Clinton was Not given a pass for what he did, he has been punished and now we have to move on
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 31, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
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'What about' the Trump admin. taking babies away from immigrants?
11,000 immigrant children in Govt. internment.
It's supposed to be used as a deterrent for illegal immigration...
"We will take your babies if you come here..
and we will store them in concentration camps"
no 'what about' needs to be used to divert from the issue
it's worse than appalling
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 31, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
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This is about Trump,drawing equivalents are not.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 31, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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Yeah, it's fun to have hissy fits about the Dumpster, but the real deal is the upcoming election. The Democratic leadership needs to understand they will NEVER convert Trump voters to their candidates; they need to pound the ground, get out the vote, and make this about something positive. Trying to draw Republicans over is a lost cause. Get out the youth vote, get out the woman's vote, get out the men's vote, get out the Hispanic vote, get out the black vote, drive people to the polls, just get out the damn votes. There are more Democrats than Republicans, use that fact.
Hit the universities and high schools and press on real issues that affect people. I remember being amazed and excited when Obama won his first term; America elected a black President and I couldn't believe it. This energy still exists, but it's simply up to a moribund, aged Democratic leadership to get off their fat ass and win the mid-terms; hopefully they are working a 50 state strategy, because it's possible. Start speaking up for god's sake, give us something.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 31, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
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neeBraun posted
hey there say, st00pid Americans... how do you tell the head nurse of a hospital? The one with the dirty knees...
over the line, way off topic, stupid and only grade school "funny"
women read this forum and thread too, you believe they think it real funny?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 31, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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The Democratic leadership needs to understand they will NEVER convert Trump voters to their candidates; they need to pound the ground, get out the vote, and make this about something positive.
The Dems need to be a lot smarter this time around, but don't forget Hilly beat Trump by 3 million in the popular vvote
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 31, 2018 - 07:14pm PT
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A lot of them sat home ,this idiot should energize a few...
Or ,the economic thing coming...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 31, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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What do you see as a positive,now speak up ?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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May 31, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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You guys are rediculous. Need a better more unifying message than the continual divisiveness.
Actually, it's spelled 'ridiculous'.
Trump and the Republicans are inclusive? Trump has had one 'State Dinner' and didn't invite a single Democrat, The President of the United States is supposed to speak for all citizens, not just the ones who voted for him. He, as President, is supposed to be concerned about the welfare of the United States of America. He has sworn to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States, a document that he has never read and does not understand. No, he's only concerned about the welfare of Donald Trump. That's it; he is only concerned about himself. He would f*#k you in a New York minute if it were to his benefit.
Edited for language.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2018 - 01:38am PT
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Power, polarization, and disruption is Putin's game plan.
His infection is infecting America.
The President is allowing it.
And, Congress is complicit in allowing it.
The people who were elected to protect us are, instead, standing by, idle.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Ask and you shall receive...
BLM? Blacks against whites | No, people against unnecessary police violence
Antifa? Socialist against everyone | an unfortunate far-left response to blatant neo-fascism
Feminism? Women against Men | Seriously? More like women against moronic neanderthals
Global warning? Valid | That must have hurt
Free whatever it is? Rich against poor | Well, with the current state of wealth distribution it's only going to get worse
White privilege? Everyone against white males | You just can't get after this one enough
LGBT. You have to accept someone regardless of your personal beliefs? | No, you're free to ignore them...
LGBT. You have the right to be served.... | ...unless you run a business that serves the public, then yes, in that case, everyone has a right to be served
Transgender - a man, women or whatever is obligated to their choice of restroom? | No one is obligated, simply let them use the restroom of the gender they identify with
Trump Sucks. Russians won the election for him? | Trump is a carpetbagging, white nationalist sociopath and a traitor in bed with the Russians, but it was progressives aping and amplifying conservatives' Hillary strategy that turned off progressives, young people, and minorities and won trump the election. But Mueller is fastened to his leg like a rottweiler at this point and time is not on his side
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Yes,more false equivalence.
You cannot defend,so ,attack the opposition.
I wonder how many Russians are here.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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BLM? Blacks against whites
Antifa? Socialist against everyone
Feminism? Women against Men
Global warning? Valid
free whatever it is? Rich against poor
white priveledge? Everyone against white males
LGBT. You have to accept someone regardless of your personal beliefs? You have the right to be served....
Transgender - a man/women whatever is obligated to their choice of restroom????
Trump Sucks..Russians won the election for him????
Your perspective is coming from a defensive posture. What is it that you are protecting?
BLM is not "against." It is an acknowledgement that....Black.Lives.Matter. You know how school children across the country are being affected by concerns their school could see a mass shooting? Many Black people have gone through a similar trauma; living in fear of a random and violent death. BLM is NOT against White people. Those who say it is - are wrong. No debate.
Antifa - It's coming out that many of the Antifa "members" and "events" are actually part of the Russia campaign; just as the "fake news" during 2016 election campaign. I know that seems implausible. We have been cursed with living in interesting times. So, if it must be seen as being "against," consider it is actually Russia against the US, weaponizing people.
Feminism is NOT women against men. It's women standing up for their rights. As people. Maybe if the English language didn't assume gender, and the Declaration of Independence was written "All People are created equal," things might have been different. We'll never know, but if you imagine it WAS written that way, I THINK one would have an "interesting" time arguing that was not intended that way; an argument that offers an example of why Feminism is necessary.
Global Warning: WarMing, not warning, but we all make typos and that one actually is an interesting malapropism; I like it. And,you didn't argue the point, so...next.
Free whatever - Sigh.... there is no free whatever.
White Privilege - Ummm, since when are white women exempt from receiving the benefits of being white in the United States? I certainly have experienced being given benefit of the doubt, due to my skin tone, in plenty of circumstances where a person of color would be viewed/treated differently.
LGTB(and Q) - "You" as a person can hold whatever beliefs you want to hold, but your right to those beliefs stops at the end of your hands. Are you seriously arguing for the right to treat someone poorly because "you" don't want to accept their humanity?
Transgender Bathroom - I don't know that "obligated" is the word you want.
Trump Sucks - Please pass the bleeach for my eyes at "seeing" that imagery.
A "message of unity" IS what the Democrat policy stands for, with regards to much of what you have posted in that quote. Is it REALLY difficult for you to imagine that other people are as deserving of certain inalienable rights as yourself? Do you view yourself as standing on the outside looking in when it comes to those groups? You know, you are welcome at any time.... Nobody but yourself is keeping you out.
Inclusive, that IS the message.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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The right wing victimhood meme is playing hard these days, those mean liberals and minorities are giving these poor conservative snowflakes such a hard time,
you should hear them whine on Rush and Hannity, I wonder how they make it through the day with out some new fake outrage
Part of the fascist playbook
stoke division
and the transgender bathroom thing!!!!
are you telling me that Chaz Bono should use the women's bathroom?
Please make your argument...here
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Trump was elected because of 8 years of this divisiveness. That is fact.
I don't recall the eight years under Obama being as divisive as the first year under trump.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Ground Chuck, if you had a SHRED of sense, you'd delete your latest post before the Secret Service comes knocking on your door.
I quote: "Convictions under 18 U.S.C. § 871 have been sustained for declaring that 'President Wilson ought to be killed. It is a wonder some one has not done it already. If I had an opportunity, I would do it myself'; and for declaring that 'Wilson is a wooden-headed son of a bitch. I wish Wilson was in hell, and if I had the power I would put him there.'"
Ground Chuck is vaguer but no less venomous!
The sheer level of froth on this thread, and the fact that nobody else has enough of a shred of sense to call Ground Chuck out on this, reveals how far off the rails you guys really are.
Advocating for the death of the President is a felony, and this echo chamber should be able to recognize when somebody's froth has boiled over and vocally ratchet him back. The fact that it can't says volumes about what an echo chamber it is.
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Trump
climber
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The failing NY Times is reporting that they’re running out of superlatives to describe how good the latest jobs report is. So what? Seriously they’re kicking Stormy Daniels off the front page for this irrelevant bullsh#t? What kind of deplorable idiots care about jobs anyway?
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Hear hear. I noted the gravity of the comment, but didn't consider typing about it.
An aside, the time and money federal investigators spend on the Trump campaign investigation could be spent on other important issues.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Look at the whiplashing trade discussions/announcements. Chaos coming from the president. His mind changes like that of a six year old.
And then he says whatever's on his mind whenever it's there. Is it a strategy? Hardly. Total chaos; an inability to focus and stay focused.
Substitute the word "war" for the word "trade," and my comparison of our dear leader to Kaiser Wilhelm II is looking pretty good. Nitwits leading countries.
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Trump
climber
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Over on the failing CNN they’re reporting that black unemployment rate has hit a record low. Those damn deplorable racists! Who measures that irrelevant sh#t by race? I’m so woke I don’t even see color anymore.
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Trump
climber
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Yea that mental midget and his 6 year old chaotic mentality seems to have just stumbled into the Presidency, at least according to my genius calculations. That and half of the country are infantile racist deplorables! This should go well the second time around. Keep up the good work.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I’m not protecting anything. Just merely pointing out the simplicity of what people have seen from the left. You can counter them all you want, but they are by and large divisive in nature. Each can be argued to death. The point is they are not unifying at all.
You choose how you want to view what other people are saying. The right wing / leaning media presents an extreme interpretation that fits into your bias if you choose it.
I'm not on the left. I'm centrist. Most of what I see from the left is not divisive. It's inclusive and striving for equality and tolerance (not acceptance there's a difference). There are a small percentage of far left people that are divisive, like antifa, and the right media spends a lot of time trying to make conservatives think everyone not a conservative is far left like that. There are terrible far right people too, neo-nazis, but I don't believe most people on the right are like that.
The NFL kneeling for the flag is a good example of how the right skewed something to generate outrage and make it something it wasn't. Players took a knee (changed from sitting to show more respect) to say that black people weren't being treated equally like the US ideals state. The right media (and Trump) created this narrative that they were protesting the country and military. And millions of people bought into it. I'm not thrilled about the players using the flag to make their point, but at least I know what they were saying and respect that, to make it something it isn't is dishonest and low.
The cake example is a tough one. I don't know how to solve that. On one side you have the business being forced to do something they don't want to do, on the other side you have denial of service. Like blacks at lunch counters in the 60s once you open the door to denying service how do you contain it? E.g. what's to prevent LGBT housing discrimination? I kind of feel if the baker doesn't want to decorate LGBT cakes they should make cakes and decorate them without any words or male/female figures and stop there so they don't have to deny any specific people anything. What if a mixed race couple came in and they said they wouldn't sell them a cake? Again it's a tough one, I'm not sure how everyone could be treated fairly.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Advocating for the death of the President is a felony,
The comment was offensive, but it did not advocate killing anyone. Protected speech.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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The right wing media lies about what liberals are, lies about our values, lies about what we want and makes us out to be the Problem
When you LIE to create division, then you are the source of that division
it's pure evil, in the Nazi vein
Please list anything that Jesus taught that was Conservative.
Then list all the liberal values he preached.
Jesus (dead) was the archetypical Bleeding heart Liberal.
And Liberal policies are to give the least among us value and a voice
How do conservatives treat the least among us?
with cruelty..
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Well said the Fet.
It goes back to what I have said about everything moving right,now the progressive side of Democrats are demonized as “antifa”.
Whilst there are a superminority of the left that are active “antifa” the number is very low.
That said most center left responsible people are against fascism.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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GOP hypocrisy knows no bounds. Bitch about support for the less fortunate as “entitlement”, spend money on your cronies like there is no tomorrow.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Only Billy's Bush knows...
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Advocating for the death of the President is a felony,
Did you know that law extends to former presidents and candidates?
It’s not exclusive to the elected guy.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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What if the president is secretly cooperating with an enemy communist country that has nuclear rockets pointed at us... Can the president be given the electric chair or hung by his short ones...? would his hair stick straight out like Buckwheat when he sees a ghost or messican...?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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It's a damn shame; the denizens on this here thread seem to be suffering from terminal cerebral trumpbosis.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Wondering how many times the old Donald grabbed zBrowns wife by the feckless kunt
Prolly many. Zb is too locked-up wasting life on the ST to give 2 fuks. An OG-Loser it is.
Hall of Fame Wanker....ya got that going for ya zB
Post-up about your wifes new BF. Climber?
That would be a first for her
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Meeting With Donald Trump ‘Was Like Talking To A Toddler’
Rhonda Hart, whose daughter, Kimberly Vaughan, was among eight students who died in the shooting last month, told The Associated Press her conversation with Trump “was like talking to a toddler.”
She said the president focused on the shooter and his appearance, repeatedly describing him as “wacky.”
During a White House listening session after the shooting, Trump was seen holding a notecard reminding him to tell victims and families that “I hear you.”
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mafia bosses apparently are not good at expressing empathy
who would have thought?
They are good at lying and requiring loyalty.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Harming our closest allies, raising the prices on key intermediate products, and provoking retaliation
Angering our allies, aligning with our adversaries, trade wars, deregulating, stoking division on immigrates....
This is only aiding Putin
along with pulling out of the Iran Agreement and the Paris Accord.
All Putin goals
Our Country is in crisis and the Republicans are negligent in doing what the Constitution requires
Therefore they are complicit in letting the Russian's control foreign policy
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I think this is much more about a global class war than Russians out to hurt USA. It is a successful campaign to obfuscate the real battle lines, away from the real divide of rich vs poor, and instead reframe it in terms of ethnic/country/religious or other divisions.
People instinctively recognize that their situation is getting worse, and this is fueling populist movements around the world. The problem is, with lack of critical thinking and observation and memory of past cause and effect, and now the growing war on truth and fact, we are all vulnerable to being redirected to whatever bogeyman gives us emotional succor in the midst of bad circumstances we can’t change.
“Russians”, “ISIS”’ “Republicans” “Democrats” “Trump”
While it is fair to say the Republican supported policies do hasten the divide between rich and poor... the Democratsare selective in drawing attention to some but not all policies that hasten the growing divide. They try to be “pragmatic” and find a space that helps average people while not alienating their Uber-rich donors. That is what made Bernie different, and what made me excited about the Democratic Party again. But in the aftermath of that election, I am still disillusioned with the lack of leadership and vision in the Democratic Party... such a historic time in terms of being able to educate people about what policies will help and which will hurt the average person... and the main gestalt I get from Democrats these days is “not Trump.” That should be a given, but when you create a void, it must be filled with something. The Democrats are failing badly to articulate how they will fill that void. It just seems like politics as usual.
Maybe I’m just not paying attention to the right people, or my media filters are all out of whack. I’m still going to vote Democrat as the better set of policy and world view alternatives to Republican, unless we have alternative candidates talking honestly about policy issues that I agree with.
The tricky part, as Mr. Fry would point out, is how that sows division on the liberal side and creates a weakness for Republicans to remain in office. My answer to that, is if the Dems want to seriously fight back, then stop sucking the corporate tit and fully commit to the policies that support the average person. Articulate the problems of global competition, and the harm to our local economy if we support hard-line policies against corporate excess that shift their assets and investment elsewhere. Articulate how we need a cooperative global economic environment with consistent regulatory protections for people and environment in each country, and that isolationist fractionalized economies HELP the ultra rich while hurting the vast majority of poor people, because they can move to exploit the inequalities and get richer from it while most of us are stuck in our spot.
Explain the nature of the conflict, the long term vision to fight against it, and what price we must pay as we achieve milestones toward that vision. The complete lack of that vision and getting the buy-in from society, assuming that people are “too stupid” to get it and instead treating them like toddlers, is part of the reason for the rebellion against the set of policies that would in the long run help more people.
Or, just say “vote Democrat because Trump is helping the Russians.”
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Yeah, what happened to 'free market' Republicans? Used to be, only a year or two ago, the magic market would decide who wins or loses; now Trump wants to subsidize the coal industry 'cause the price of natural gas is killing it.
On another topic, Trump needs to be careful with that pardon thingie. Once a person accepts a Presidential pardon they can no longer plead the 5th Amendment against self incrimination; they have to talk.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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The “real answer” is to remove Trump from office using the 25th Amendment to replace him, Sachs concludes.
trump is suffering from the effects of early onset dementia.
where's Melania?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Quit with personal attacks and ad hominem attacks. I tried to do it (I may still do but I hope not, but there are some posters who annoy me, know it alls, I shouldn't let them bug me, but they do, either I am an idiot or they are), and it does not work.
Calling the other sides names gets nowhere. I think we all actually know that, but for some it is fun to resort to schoolyards insults. Okay, if it is done in fun and jest, I guess it is not so bad.
This is an echo chamber but for both "sides", the liberal side is just more "populous" and vociferous.
Seriously though, please tell me how Trump is the bees knees? What has he done, seriously? What legislation that will help the average American? He has started a trade war, now I am not an economist (for what that would be worth) and I have been a business journalist for years in several countries, but how can he expect to win, turning on US allies?
And, I am not a conspiracy person, but his lack of supporting sanctions against Russia, and his flip flops on China (ZTE, anyone?), how can one not help but think something smells fishy there?
Maybe it is a storm in a tea cup. But he is breaking all norms, and IMO not for the better. It seems he likes smelling his own farts and crap. He is a failed businessperson, though he is great at marketing (himself).
Yes Trump has upset the status quo, but for the better? I do not think so, I think for the worse. His lack of understanding of the Constitution, his indifference to most Americans, his lining his pockets while as POTUS (deny it!), his courting of right-wing groups.
Draining the swamp? Come on, look at his cabinet appointees.
At the recent press conference where Sanders (Trump) said the ABC should apologize to Ivanka for Bee's use of the C word, and he (Sanders that is) said there were double standards (there are, hypocrisy knows no ideology), and a reporter asked at the end of the press conference; "When is the president going to apologize for all he has said?" Sanders waked out.
I love it.
Trump has no scruples (not unlike many politicians).
You cannot ever convince me he is NOT a scumbag. He is.
A two-party system. Okay, and when will we get sensible moderate liberals and conservatives who know how to compromise and come to a healthy consensus?
I await.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Nutagain..The dems have to suck on the corporate tit...It's the quickest easiest way to get elected and into power...Bernie was an exception to the rule..changing campaign rules is a tough nut to crack..the american people aren't bright enough to demand it...If Trump gets off the hook America is going to get screwed opening the flood gates to more corruption and abuse...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Trump
climber
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Quit with personal attacks
...
(Trump) is (a scumbag)
Nicely said. Now we see the problem. Or not.
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dirtbag
climber
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Seriously though, please tell me how Trump is the bees knees? What has he done, seriously? What legislation that will help the average American? He has started a trade war, now I am not an economist (for what that would be worth) and I have been a business journalist for years in several countries, but how can he expect to win, turning on US allies?
If you are conservative you probably like a lot of his judicial appointments, although any run of the mill conservative President would probably have done better. Several of his nominees have been complete morons.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Trump, when I said personal insults, I meant on this forum, perhaps I should have clarified that.
By calling Trump a scumbag on this forum, I do not think I was being hypocritical. Because he is. Double standards? In 1994 Ted Nugent called Hillary Clinton a c*nt, yet years later Trump invited Nugent to the White House.
Trump has insulted so many people (not to count the contractors and subcontractors he has screwed over the years), and he has never apologized (has he, I do not recall, perhaps he has).
So do not hold me up to double standards, if your standard bearer wants to throw rocks at houses, he'd better make sure he does not live in a glass house.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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If you want some personal criticism, who in the hell picks "Trump" as an avatar, as an handle, not very original, not very clever. Facetious? Perhaps. Still not original or clever. IMO
EDIT
I believe in conservatives and liberals, I believe in consensus and suitable compromise, It is the extremists that get on my nerves, or should I say, that worry me.
And liberals are called snowflakes by the alt-right. As far as I can tell, there are plenty of snowflakes on the right. Sensitive souls. As bad at taking critical thinking as any leftie. Perhaps even worse.
EDIT
In the past, I have made an ass of myself on this forum (over 13 years), usually when I am depressed or had some booze on me, or both. I have always tried to apologize, sincerely.
So I do not need to be lectured. I have been around the block as many times as many/most of you people. I can be opinionated, but I try to be an informed "opinionated".
I would love to see Trump (as much as I dislike him, his policies, his personality) succeed in Korea, a festering wound. So there know-it-all Reilly, Mr Perfect, some of us do not want Trump to fail like you have implied. But I fear it will not happen for the best. Trump has no clue how to deal on the global stage. Perhaps he will learn for the best. Somehow, I doubt it.
Do I hold double standards? Can I be a hypocrite? I guess so, but I try to keep it at the absolute minimum.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
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pray for a stroke or a heart attack
Madonna, the aging pop tart, publicly stated that she wanted to blow up the White House. As far as I know, she is still loose, and weird, on the streets. Kathy Griffin, the comedienne, held up a partial effigy of the president (head only), and received a tremendous backlash. The Secret Service has not arrested and prosecuted her.
Praying for a stroke would seem to fit right in with the evangelicals' support for the president. Fox News commentator Jeanine Pirro has said that Trump is acting in accordance with scriptural prophesies. Presumably, she was referring to the Book of Revelations. Evangelicals are apparently anxious for fulfillment of this:
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast."
A stroke is a type of brain injury that can be fatal, but is often survivable.
Jeanine Pirro, and her evangelical fan base, might be praying for a more television-ready head injury to the President, like his bumping his head on the Marine One doorway, falling down the stairs, and requiring four stitches to stanch the bleeding. They get their "fatal" head injury, he stands back up, and then the entire world marvels at, and follows, the Beast.
A cheeseburger, in time, saves nine.
That just means that a fat cat getting a cheeseburger in time preserves its nine lives. A can of Frisky's Buffet would make more sense, but if all you have is a cheeseburger, to keep your cat alive . . . . .
A cheeseburger, in time, saves lives.
I don't know what that one means.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Anyone tired of winning yet?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/vetoes-unsc-resolution-protection-palestinians-180601201831238.html
The US was, in turn, the only country to vote in favour of a revised draft-resolution it submitted subsequent to the Kuwait-sponsored initiative.
The second vote saw 11 countries abstaining and three rejecting it.
The US version had omitted references to Israeli use of force and protecting Palestinians. It instead demanded that Hamas and other Palestinian groups cease "all violent provocative actions" in Gaza.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Maybe it needs to be done ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or happen.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2018 - 11:02pm PT
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EPA chief Scott Pruitt is cheered on by billionaire coal barons as he repeals the Obama-era Clean Power Plan in Kentucky. A month earlier, Pruitt postponed enforcement of Federal laws against dumping toxic mine waste into public waterways, which was also cheered on by the coal industry.
The photo has not been photoshopped. The guy wearing the emphysema rig is actually happy he's going be breathing dirty air.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/02/us/scott-pruitt-coal-joseph-craft.html
Pruitt is in bed with at least one billionaire coal baron, Joseph Craft III, at left in the above photo. Pruitt and Trump have received millions in donations from Craft, as well as various gifts and favors. Craft has been to see Pruitt in Washington a dozen times, more than the number of times Pruitt has met with conservation and protection groups. Pruitt and Craft have been buddies since the days when Pruitt was the Oklahoma Attorney General, and was suing the EPA to hinder its activities.
Trump's swamp makes the Everglades look like a backyard kiddie pool.
Michael Avenatti
Trump and Pruitt have embraced a Steam Punk approach the nation's energy situation.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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So that is what Pruitt needed a thousand dollar pen for.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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^^^^^^
Tom, that photo speaks volumes. If true, about dumping mine wastes into public waterways, that is scandalous. My late mother is from West Virginia, I talk with some cousins there, they do not agree what Trump, Pruitt and company are doing. They think it is a step backwards.
EDIT for clarification
When I write Trump, I do not refer to the poster who goes by the 'Trump handle', though he/she apparently thinks so. I refer to Donald Trump. I think most of us realize that, accept maybe the poster "Trump", who has only been on this forum since March 23 of this year. A troll or WUM perhaps?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Scott Pruitt, the epitome of Government corruption
Being paid by lobbyists to deregulate their industry for profit
What do the Republicans/conservatives think?
Unfortunately, they don't comment on the particulars of what Trump does
they only whine or insult
or give broad brush platitudes like "I think he's doing a great job"
every department is being stocked with this level of corruption
Trump supporter = "I think he's doing a great job, he's pissing off the liberals, he must being something right"
the Nazis said the same thing, "Hitler is pissing off the liberals, he must being doing something right"
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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. . . billionaire coal executive who's lobbied the EPA on issues important to his company--and is looking for major victories under Pruitt
Pruitt has already given this guy the right to dump toxic mine waste into rivers, and has repealed Obama's Clean Energy Plan to encourage burning more coal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/02/us/scott-pruitt-coal-joseph-craft.html
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/In-secret-memo-lawyers-argued-Trump-has-complete-12963098.php
Trump's lawyers, Dowd and Sekulow, claim that Trump has absolute power over the Department of Justice, and that it is impossible for him to obstruct an investigation, in a criminal or legal sense. They say that since he controls the DOJ, he can hire and fire investigators at will. They claim that Trump can simply end any investigation or prosecution, at any time, against anyone, including himself. Conversely, he can order an arbitrary investigation, at any time, against anyone, using his absolute power.
Trump's lawyers say that he is immune to indictments, subpoenas and any other legal process. Those in Trump's favor would be similarly immune to any legal process, if he so chooses. Conversely, Trump's enemies could be subjected to random, baseless legal process, investigation, prosecution and incarceration because of Trump's alleged absolute power over the DOJ.
Trump's lawyers must similarly argue that Trump has absolute power over the entire executive branch of government, and not just the Department of Justice. In other words, Trump must have absolute power of office.
Trump's lawyers are arguing that Trump has autocratic powers that override the Constitution, and allow him to behave as a king, emperor, dictator, tyrant or similar autocrat that is not beholden to any rule of law.
Because the DOJ investigates voter fraud, Trump must have also have the power to invalidate future presidential elections, and remain in power for life.
It is truly astonishing that these foolish and false legal arguments, which were presumably not facetious, were made by trained and licensed attorneys in the United States.
One of those attorneys, John Dowd, has since abandoned Trump and the attempt to declare him emperor for life. The other one, Jay Sekulow, still represents Trump, and supposedly stands by his earlier statements, and is prepared to defend them.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Giuliani-Trump-constitutional-power-pardon-himself-12963839.php
Rudy Giuliani says that Trump has the power to pardon himself, which is an alternative statement that he is above the law.
Giuliani is all over the place with his nonsensical pseudo-logic and Buffoon's Guide To The Law.
Giuliani stated that Trump can't be indicted, tried or convicted while in office; but Trump can pardon himself if he is convicted while in office; but then he would be impeached and removed from office for pardoning himself, while in office, for a crime that he can't be convicted of while he is in office . . . . . .
Trump and his lawyers are an insult to the nation, and are embarrassing us before the rest of the world. Trump is an incompetent dolt who gained the presidency through fraud, and he is now making overtures to obtain absolute power over the government, for the rest of his life (and then what? The emperor's ring is given to Eric?).
Figuratively speaking, Mueller needs to cook Trump up, smear him with mustard, and feed him to the dogs.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Talk about the bottom of the dreck swamp monsters
How about John Bolton and Ruby Giuliani ?
Also these seem to be in play;
He has Hannity as the head of Communications
Ralph Reed, head of Women's Health
Putin, Foreign Relations
Rush, King of Chaos
Ted Nuggent, Endangered Species Act
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Do we really have the presidents top advisers musing about the ability of the president to pardon himself? Definitely not a first world issue.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Trumps pardons of truly undeserving convicts and this latest stance are clearly meant to send a messagge: we are above the law. Now, if I were one of the prosecutors I’d be countering that by working up concurrent pardon-proof state law claims against the various criminals in the administration. The message of that would be: you might get pardoned but then you will face state charges with no chance of a plea deal.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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When it comes down to it, though, the Supreme Court will likely rule in favour of the rule of law. Trump is no more above the law than anyone else.
Trump has already shown that he is above the law for a lot of things. Just look at his decades long career screwing business partners and contractors.
With so many scandals there are lots that go generally under the radar. Bush senior owned a few million dollars of stocks and felt the need to put that in a blind trust while he was president. Compare that to Trump who has millions of dollars of real estate and business investment in countries that are quite happy to make things more or less profitable depending on how Trump behaves. How is he not above the law?
Supreme Court will likely... Exactly. What if they don't? If Ginsburg kicks off one of these days and the Dems don't have a majority, Trump will really reshape the Court. And no, I don't think a filibuster will save the Dems. It only takes a simple majority of Senators to get rid of the filibuster rule.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Schindler says he is hearing RUMINT that there may be some Mueller announcements this week.... Man and the dept. have been vewy quiet, hunting wabbits you know.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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FREE MELANIA
blink twice if you need a rescue
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dirtbag
climber
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It seems like she is hiding. Mental health? Thoughts about dumping him?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2018 - 03:22pm PT
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FREE SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS
That poor woman is booby-hatchable right now, and will only get worse as her tortured mind continues to wrestle reality versus absurd lies that nobody believes.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
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Jackie Kennedy married into even more money - Aristotle Onassis.
Maybe Elon Musk will dump the post-teen pop tart, and go for Melania.
What about the Sheldon Adelson guy? He's a dreamboat, compared to Rupert Murdoch, who is married to an ex-model about 50 years too young for him.
Melania might hook up with . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sean Hannity
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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lol.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Melania and Limbaugh, the good lord knows she has earned it.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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I love the little American flag that politiicans wear on their lappells that says we're the good guys...what a joke...
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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It seems like she is hiding. Mental health? Don't think so unless you mean trump's.
Thoughts about dumping him?
more than likely. she is probably trying to get the timing down.
I saw Christie opine on the argument that the president is above the law. He said he doesn't think trump would win that one.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Interesting how the entire klan goes to Camp David, Tiffany included, but Baron stays with his mom. That has "next stop, Splitsville USA" written all over it.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2018 - 11:43pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Baron might be simply exhibiting intelligence beyond his years.
Even without a loving parent going down the world's biggest toila-swirl, being in the public eye would be obnoxious for a young man. What benefit is there, for him, to have all the TV cameras directed at him? NONE.
I don't remember very much about Amy Carter's behavior when her father was president, except that there wasn't much being shown on TV, or in the newspapers. I think it was about the same with Chelsea Clinton, and the Obama kids. In any good fish bowl, there are places for the shy ones to hide, away from omnipresent gawking eyes.
The strongman at the circus doesn't usually have his family on display with him, unless his daughter is the bearded lady and his sons are the werewolf boys.
If Melania and Baron can hide out, away from the circus, good for them.
I think that Melania might be approaching a breaking point. Her body language, at the Easter Egg event at the White House, indicated that she wanted to SHUT TRUMP UP when he started boasting to the children about how much money he was spending on weaponry that is intended to kill people.
Even without the Stormy Daniels + Playboy Bunny sex scandals, all the rest must be a tremendous strain on the relationship. Trump's lies are so transparent, it is obvious that Melania must be embarrassed.
Somewhere, in New York City, there are attorneys and accountants calculating the net payoff if she decides to exercise the prenup divorce option coupons that have already vested.
The sad thing, for everyone involved, is that Trump is self-destructive, and he's doing all of this, rather unnecessarily, to himself. He's like a gambling addict whose family might be destroyed because he can't resist throwing the dice, over and over again, in a game that he cannot possibly win. Or, like a card player who continues to bluff, and bet big, when the cards are against him. Trump is holding three clubs and a diamond queen, and with only one more card to be dealt, Trump thinks he will win.
The Boz Scaggs song Lido Shuffle comes to mind, right now.
Nixon, Clinton and Martha Stewart all went down because they didn't know when to just tell the truth, take their spanking, and get on with their lives. All three of them, and soon Trump, were pilloried for lying about relatively meager misbehavior.
Nixon could have plausibly denied knowledge of the DNC Watergate break-in, and admitted that his campaign staff was overzealous in its methods. He could have asked for an open investigation, sent some people to jail for less time than they received later, and nobody would have heard the Oval Office tapes.
Clinton could have fessed up to a cutie under the desk, and then, like Kobe Bryant, bought his wife a big ol' diamond ring. It would have been scandalous, but not impeachable. Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe, all over again. #Yawn.
Martha Stewart could have claimed that she panicked when she got the call about the medical company stock, and admitted she did something stupid in the heat of the moment. The guy who gave her the insider trading tip might not have gone to jail, either. It was the lying and the attempted cover-up that sent them both to prison.
At this point, Trump has very few options. He has almost no wiggle room at all, because he has dug himself into such a deep hole.
I can imagine Trump thinking about Luke Skywalker suddenly flying out of the Carbonite Machine, just as Darth Vader throws the switch to freeze him up for transport to the Emperor.
Human nature is a trip, man.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Yep
“Senator [Mitch] McConnell & Speaker [Paul] Ryan: If Mr. Trump continues along this disastrous path, you will bear major responsibility for the harm done to our democracy,” Brennan wrote in another tweet on May 20. “You do a great disservice to our Nation & the Republican Party if you continue to enable Mr. Trump’s self-serving actions.”
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WBraun
climber
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All the pussies in the American Congress should be giving Trump a serious tongue lashing.
A major one to reel in this screwball if anything.
But instead these pussies in Congress just make lukewarm pussy statements from their closets ......
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Trump
climber
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Well this is an embarrassing turn of our attention. Slow day on the soap operas, so gossiping about celebrity marriages is what we righteous thinkers have on our plate today?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2018 - 04:04pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First Rule of Avoidance Behavior:
Direct your attention away from what you want to avoid.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Do you know the reason for Sarah Sanders's behavior?
If not for a paycheck, or to support Trump, then what?
I understand that the White House has to have a consistent, and ostensibly coherent, message. Every White House has, and will, do the same thing.
But, it must be distressing to stand at a podium and make statements that are then, immediately, challenged by the press as being in conflict with previous events and statements, and therefore must be false, or, at the very least, misunderstood.
He was relying on alternative facts.
Kellyanne Conway
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DanaB
climber
CO
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That poor woman is booby-hatchable right now, and will only get worse as her tortured mind continues to wrestle reality versus absurd lies that nobody believes.
I disagree, Tom. She knows what she is doing, and does it for a reason - and that reason is not holding onto her job or her belief in Trump or in most of what he does and says.
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Trump
climber
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Ah yes, let’s delve in to the inner workings of Sarah Sanders psychology. Do you think that she had a domineering father? How significant is her cognitive dissonance on saying those things that she knows are lies? It pains me to even imagine.
And Baron, poor Baron! The humanity! How can he stand having a president for his father, and Melania! poor Melania! Where has she been? Is her marriage on the skids? And why did she wear that particular shade of eyeshadow in her last public appearance?
And Trump, the evil villain at the center of our imagined psychodramas. Our psycho gossip is no fun without you, Trump.
Stay tuned for our mental speculations about these and other questions on our favorite thread, The Days of Our Lives.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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And YES!
Trump's lies & more lies, are finally catching up with him!
WASHINGTON — For nearly a year, the denials from President Trump’s lawyers and spokeswoman were unequivocal. No, the president did not dictate a misleading statement released in his son’s name.
“He certainly didn’t dictate,” said the White House press secretary , Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
“The president was not involved in the drafting of that statement,” his lawyer Jay Sekulow told NBC News.
“That was written by Donald Trump Jr., and I’m sure in consultation with his lawyer,” Mr. Sekulow told CNN.
“The president didn’t sign off on anything,” he told ABC.
But in a confidential, hand-delivered memo to the special counsel, Mr. Trump’s lawyers acknowledged that, yes, Mr. Trump had dictated the statement, which attempted to deflect questions about a meeting with a Kremlin-tied lawyer at Trump Tower. Prosecutors are asking whether the statement was part of an effort by the president to obstruct a federal investigation.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-pushed-false-story-line-about-meeting-with-kremlin-tied-lawyer-memo-shows/ar-AAydZ8T?li=BBnb7Kz
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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I want to see Rudy Julianni walk into the Supreme Court with the legal concept that Donald could walk in there with a Beretta and take out the whole court and then pardon himself...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
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The Battle for Reality is being waged online, on the tube, and, thankfully, has not risen to the point of injurious weaponry.
I read a book about the Roman Empire, translated from Italian, in which this phrase appeared:
The official fictions.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trumpboi continues stirring the pot by pondering whether he can pardon himself...One former prosecutor asks just exactly what it is trump wants to pardon himself for...? I think don should be more concerned about whether his jail cell is big enough for a putting carpet...
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Doesn't Rudy know that a good catholic boy doesn't use the lord's name in vain?
Trump cancels Superbowl winners' White House visit.
It seems only ten members out of about ninety of the Super Bowl winning Philadelphia Eagles accepted Trump's invitation to visit with him....so he canceled the invite.
He claimed they:
"disagree with their President because he insists that they proudly stand for the National Anthem, hand on heart, in honor of the great men and women of our military and the people of our country."
None of the Eagles knelt during the anthem for the entire 2017 season.
Philadelphia mayor, Jim Kenney, responded with his own statement:
"Disinviting them from the White House only proves that our President is not a true patriot, but a fragile egomaniac obsessed with crowd size and afraid of the embarrassment of throwing a party to which no one wants to attend."
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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tRump is losing the plot, and he is surrounding himself with people like Rudy that are helping him spiral further into madness. Nobody that has any reasonable advice will have anything to do tRump at this point. I fully expect Sarah Sanders to finally have enough and pull the plug.
How long is congress going to sit on their a** and watch the tRump sh*t show pull the whole country down with it? Is there any honor or self respect left?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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How long is congress going to sit on their a** and watch the tRump sh*t show pull the whole country down with it? Is there any honor or self respect left?
Honor and self respect? Nope. Those that are limited by that have already left or are leaving like Jeff Flake.
There is only winning. If R's think they can still win elections by standing behind Trump, they will.
They will only turn if enough voters turn. And hey, Fox news says its all good.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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A tweet from Schindler this afternoon: “What if the real secret of the Trump campaign isn’t that it’s a Kremlin operation, rather an Israeli operation masquerading as a Russian one?”
Haveb't been able to look at any of the discussion or much else he has written today(work day for me), so not sure what that's about but when I read the tweet, my stomach dropped.
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cintune
climber
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Whoever is behind it, the code name is “Operation: Rhymes With Chump.”
Farcical tragedy on an epic, yet simultaneously pathetic scale.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Daily
If he did nothing,then why act as if he is guilty.
Bad acting.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Big Don will fire Rudy when he tires of the reach around and gladiator costume rentals...Don't blame Rudy though...Are denture cleanings considered billable hours...?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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I got all excited when I read Donald was going to be deposed..
Then I found out that just meant he was going to have to answer questions under oath in his defamation case
Damn! I was hoping for a coup d’etat or something.
Oh well. At least we have the probability that the Donald will lie under oath, and he can’t grant himself immunity in state court.
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dirtbag
climber
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Why did you post it?
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dirtbag
climber
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Ok, but without context, I’m not sure why it’s a good idea to post it either here or there. I still know nothing about why drudge posted it: you haven’t told us or provided a link. All I see is a disturbing photo, and I don’t see much difference beween what drudge allegedly did and what you are doing now.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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It is a horrible picture and irrelevant to the topic of this thread, why not just delete it and we can move on to bashing the 4th grader the Deplorables elected as US President?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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how is your picture of dead bodies relevant to the thought process of Republican voters?
How does the DNC do the "same shit" and not get called on it?
can you be more specific, thanks
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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Lee Harvey Manafort made a last ditch effort to save his bacon by witness tampering
Manafort is stupid, insane, or both. Tampering with those two witnesses could not have saved him, at all.
He is facing many charges, ranging from money laundering, to tax fraud, to failing to register as a foreign lobbyist. The foreign lobbyist charge is what Manafort's witness tampering activity was related to, not the other charges. The foreign lobbyist charges are relatively minor, and often only result in a fine, or short jail sentence.
The witness tampering charges are serious felonies, with up to ten years for each count. Manafort traded a fine, and maybe some time, for 20 years in prison.
Shrewd.
The funniest part is that the two witnesses immediately contacted the FBI when Manafort suggested that they "remember" that no lobbying took place in the United States. Those two witnesses know that the Trump Show is going down, hard and fast, crying all the way, and they want to stay as far away as possible.
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Trump
climber
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Those two witnesses know that the Trump Show is going down, hard and fast, crying all the way, and they want to stay as far away as possible.
Don’t be silly. The Trump show is going down as soon as that Access Hollywood tape is released. Everyone knows that!
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huh
climber
anchorage
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It is the under the presidency that the administration (including conservation and access) of some of the best climbing in the United States is possible. Considering that, it is appropriate to comment directly on Trump. Ryan Zincke will pull $ away from budget lines that historically maintain and preserve climbing areas and destinations. Zincke is one of President "Capone's" thugs, and he'll treat climbing areas thuggishly, and possibly climbers as well. In the case of the historical Capone, his people went away, in timely and untimely ways. In the current case of criminals in charge of not only Interior, but also Justice, etc., there won't be an opening for personnel changes until 2020. I hope those changes are not too late, and that President Pence isn't as whacky as his history to date indicates.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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The president could have shot James Comey if he had wanted to, legally speaking.
Indeed, Obama summarily executed US citizens, so the precedent has been set.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Who on this site listens to the conservative military analyst Ralph Peters?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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^^^
The first sentence above is a legitimate comparison/argument.
The second sentence makes the posting party seem childish and ruins their credibility. Too bad.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Who on this site knows of Ralph Peters?
He’s a retired U.S. Army Lt. Colonel who’s known for being quite conservative. He’s also a very rigorous thinker, and ruthlessly, ruthlessly realistic.
Politically I “lean” left. Peters is well to the right. And yet he thinks for himself! I like those who think for themselves, so I’ve followed his writing for over two decades now; for example; I’ve got old copies of a magazine that used to carry his articles (Armed Forces Journal International).
I still remember one of his articles from almost 20 years ago in which he called out dangers presented by Iran. Not “canned,” everybody-knows-them dangers, but deeply analyzed issues. He also discounted several of the then “commonly held” worries about that country. His suggestions for “solutions” to the “Iran problem” were deeply practical, varying from flat-out making peace with them to military solutions.
He thinks, thinks, thinks. He does not follow “the party line.”
Ralph Peters worked for years recently as a military analyst for Fox News.
And then he quit. When he quit he literally and bluntly accused Fox of "assaulting our constitutional order and the rule of law."
Today Ralph Peters said that Fox is doing a "great deal of damage" to the United States.
He also used words that actually shocked me. He said about the current president of the United States:
"I am convinced that Vladimir Putin has a grip on President Trump," adding, "I hope I'm wrong."
Conservative readers: think about that. Think for yourselves. Here’s one of YOU who is flat brilliant.
What matters conservative readers, the United States of America, or blind, rah rah loyalty to its president (any president)?
And by the way, don’t take my word for it. Think for yourselves. Search out Ralph Peters earlier commentaries (I think he’s the one who called President Obama a “pussy” on air). Find his current comments by yourselves and listen to them.
Fake News? A disguised “commie?” Yeah, I don’t think so.
Search for yourselves. And then decide: are you a patriot or a sycophant?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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And I don't post for yours. So if you want to act like a second grader, be ready to be called out on it.
Leaving to go climbing now, sweetie ;)
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ec
climber
ca
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Yea bro, because a drone strike in Yemen against a traitor working with a terrorist organization that has launched attacks on our soil and is advocating the destruction of the USA is the same as assassinating the Director of the FBI who is investigating your crime family.
Yes, you are really that stupid.
Do citizens of the United States lose their constitutional rights because they are out of the country?
In what court was that person convicted of treason?
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dirtbag
climber
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Quite a cover for “Time.”
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^^ If yer medical analyses were equal to yer political analyses then you likely deemed
someone presenting with a UTI as having suffered a sprained ankle first.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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So, kingtut, if Trump determines that Mueller is an enemy of the American people, he can be executed at Trump's pleasure?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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The first sentence above is a legitimate comparison/argument.
The second sentence makes the posting party seem childish and ruins their credibility. Too bad.
So if somebody posts a really stupid comparison, it is childish to say that they posted a really stupid comparison?
If someone makes a kindergarten type taunt, and you point out how childish it is, that ruins their credibility?
And this is what we do now instead of debating the real problems that this country has? Those that don't want to engage in reality are, sadly, winning. But reality will bite back sooner or later.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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But, the precedence has been set by Obama. It was wrong. Obama was great President, but he made some questionable decisions.
after following President Obama's Administration closely for eight years
but unfortunately not being invited to attend any of the intelligence security council briefings
I would like to be educated about the questionable precedences and decisions? thanks
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Quite a cover for “Time.” He'll love it.
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Trump
climber
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A guy who called Obama a pussy is now calling Fox News a threat to our democracy.
Glass half empty says he’s full of sh#t for calling Obama a pussy, and don’t trust his judgment about fox.
Glass half full says he doesn’t have a partisan axe to grind, so he’s equally right about what he’s saying. If this is you, great, you think Obama is a pussy and Fox is bad for our democracy.
Or from both sides of the mouth, pick and chose whatever you want to believe, and imagine that it’s consistent, and that this guy’s opinion matters about the things we agree with him on, and doesn’t about the things we disagree with him on.
We decide - are we going to be consistent, or fit the data to our pre-existing belief? Save yourself some time - we’re all gonna do the latter anyway.
I do agree with him though - the media is threatening our democracy! It’s undermining our presidency! Witch hunt!
Who knew I leaned so far left?!
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Trump
climber
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Sure I can see that too. And if that’s the way you see it, then I can see why you’d cite his history of views as indicative of his good judgment. Is that how you see it? Did you see that I offered that as one option? If you agree with him that Obama was a pussy, then I can see why you’d offer that when citing his good judgment, and believability, with respect to Fox News.
One of my voters and fellow supertoper - a fine white parent of a black daughter - called Michelle Obama a man a little while back. It is what it is. If you think calling our First Lady (and black American woman role model) a man is good judgment in raising a black daughter in our racist society, where white folks (like that black girl’s parents) are often privileged to not have to notice or consider the sexist racist bullshit they engage in, and the effect that bullshit has on blacks, like his daughter, then you might respect his judgment in other regards. If not, perhaps not.
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ec
climber
ca
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...more like a Golden Shower.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about having an affair...Trumps been lying about having an affair with Putin...Will trump be impeached...?
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WBraun
climber
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Trumps been lying about having an affair with Putin
It's amazing how st00pid and brainwashed you Americans are.
8200 had their dirty hands in it and they are the ones.
Even Muller is now starting to figure it out ......
Because You Americans are so st00pid and brainwashed you end up and deserve a st00pid POTUS.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Fill us in,will you!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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werner has yuuuge intellect. like, the greatest. that's why he's here in the loony bin. will all you reprobates
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Needless to say in this context, it is brought up in an attempt to normalize Trump, which is to be derided.
In a way, perhaps. Trump is merely a distraction. If he gets too far out of line they'll do to him what they did to RFK and MLK 50 years ago.
If you get to be too much of a threat to the system you are dealt with. You get imprisoned like Eugene Debs. Lynched like Frank Little. Executed like Joe Hill. Obama certainly did not rock the boat, even though that's what he campaigned on during his first run.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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The Mueller investigation has been compromised....Brraun knows too much...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Obama certainly did not rock the boat, even though that's what he campaigned on during his first run.
really?
well you could have fooled me, given the entire Republican party and media going absolutely ape sh#t over the Affordable Care Act and the guarantee of not being denied health insurance, the twenty million American expansion of Medicaid, etc
and on and on it went for eight years, with over 40 votes in the Republican House to repeal the ACA - but no, that certainly was not fulfilling a campaign promise that "rocked the boat"?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dan Wenk booted as superindent of Yellowstone National Park...Wenk was a conservationist and in the way of mining interests backed by collusional trump...Maybe donny will try and grab a bison by the pussy...?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Norton, I know you paid attention to that election, you listened to Obama speak. He talked Hope and Change. He talked like he was going to be another FDR. It was going to be another New Deal. Hell, I voted for him. What did we get? Bush Light.
More war in the middle east. Guantanamo is still there. The Pentagon still rules. The oligarchs are getting richer and richer.
The ACA? What did it do but pump money into private insurance companies.
Please, tell me what Obama did that was so revolutionary, what shook the system?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Good evening Gary,
I have to get up earlier so going to bed after this reply.
Make you a deal? I will check back with you here on this thread tomorrow.
By that time can I expect you to know what you are talking about with the ACA
because at this point I have to respectfully think that you are hugely uninformed.
Anyone, anyone, who has read even a very short 20 page summary of the ACA simply
could not in good conscious say what you just did above, that the ACA was nothing more than a money grab.
I will end by saying, that the "hope and change" that President Obama campaigned on was indeed delivered, big time, through the ACA.
And you would know that if you had paid attention since it was passed in 2010.
It is not my job to educate you as to the benefits that ten of millions of Americans have
gotten from the new health care bill, you can read and you know how to google.
So I will check back with you to discuss in depth each and every positive aspect of the ACA
and if you can convince me through your powerful intellect and depth of ACA knowledge that it did not deliver "hope and change" well then, Gary, congratulations in advance, ok? good night
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Please, tell me what Obama did that was so revolutionary, what shook the system?
come on Gary, you know as well as I do that Obama's hands were tied.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Because You Americans are so st00pid and brainwashed you end up and deserve a st00pid POTUS.
From the mouths of ducklings....
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dirtbag
climber
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Trump wants to readmit Russia to the g-8, despite Russia offering no concessions, and only a year and a half after tampering in our elections.
Gee, I wonder why trump would up and decide to do all that for Russia?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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come on Gary, you know as well as I do that Obama's hands were tied.
Yes, 10b, exactly my point. The question is who was tying his hands.
Hope and change are needed in this country, but as long as Money makes all the calls it will not happen.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Good News for the far Left
Russia will be running Jill Stein in 2020
Now you can vote your conscious
and not have your delicate sensibilities and morals compromised with less than perfect
It's a Protest Vote!
I know Gary is on board
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Must be Friday, the Hillary fan boys are whining about the election again.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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So what you are saying is that there is no hope
Just let it run it's course, there is nothing you can do
and voting is a waste of energy
bend over, take it and shut the HELL UP
That is your OPINION
I get it
Your Opinion is not shared universally
I think it's asinine
There has to be hope,
No hope equals all is lost
Can you see why people want hope
There is only way out, vote out the Plutocrats
That is my hope
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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ok Gary, I am ready to discuss and defend the "hope and change" the ACA has been delivering for years now
how about it Gary, you say President Obama did not deliver on his campaign message,
I say he certainly did
go ahead, make your case
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Dan Wenk booted as superindent of Yellowstone National Park...Wenk was a conservationist and in the way of mining interests backed by collusional trump...Maybe donny will try and grab a bison by the pussy...?
Yellowstone National Park Superintendent Dan Wenk is resigning over a feud with U.S. Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke.
Zinke thinks there are too many Bison in the park......because local ranchers are complaining that they're a danger to cattle.
Yellowstone biologists believe the 4,000 Bison are sustainable and pose no danger to cattle ranchers.
Wenk has forty years experience with the National Park Service. He was offered a transfer to Washington but declined feeling it was "punitive action".
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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I know Gary is on board
You bet. When you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil.
I say he certainly did
Did he close Guantanamo? Did the inequality of wealth in this country diminish during his term? How about those wars in the Middle East? And what about that Public Option in healthcare?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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This gesture had me baffled for a moment:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/08/politics/trump-nfl-athletes-kneeling-pardons/index.html
Then I thought of the playbook for abusers in relationships, to alternate cruelty with compassion, to keep the victims hoping for more compassion and to keep them more tolerant of more cruelty. Never mind that he encourages racism and widespread disrespect and contempt and hatred between people, and models the exact opposite of what the vast majority of parents would want to teach their kids. Let’s compete to see who gets the honor of having Trump pick someone to pardon! Will we have a televised board room and tense music, some tears and emotional pleas, then Trump on a throne frowning for an uncomfortably long time, then a “You’re Pardoned!” with the jab of a finger and a forced hug.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Yeah, that pardon thing is odd. We know Trump is addicted to attention, and he loves nothing more than seeing his adversaries grovel before him. Remember Romney's romantic dinner with Trump. It is all part of Trumps mental illness.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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I guess you have no understanding how our political system works
If you vote for third party, your vote directly gives a vote to the greatest of evil
and if the lesser of two evils doesn't win, then pure evil is emboldened.
Your list is nothing to do with Democrats and everything to do with Republicans that you refuse to vote against, so hence, you are Part of the problem with your voting criteria
Did he close Guantanamo? No, because Obama didn't have a Democratic Congress, the Republicans voted to keep it open
Did the inequality of wealth in this country diminish during his term? because Obama didn't have a Democratic Congress, the Republicans voted to increase inequality
How about those wars in the Middle East? because Obama didn't have a Democratic Congress, the Republicans voted to keep the wars going
And what about that Public Option in healthcare? because Obama didn't have a Democratic Congress, the Republicans and Independents voted for no public option
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Did he close Guantanamo? Did the inequality of wealth in this country diminish during his term? How about those wars in the Middle East? And what about that Public Option in healthcare?
oh come on now Gary, you can do better than that
why don't you throw in the fact that there are still pot holes in streets?
surely Obama could have solved that with an Executive Order!
yes, President Obama failed, he failed because he did not not end 2000 years of war in the middle east
he failed to bring Hope and Change because the ACA could not get the votes in the 28 days it had in congress to include a Public Option
you made your point Gary, congratulations on exercising your powerful intellect
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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They’re breathless in Singapore! And at least they’re having fun with it, besides making a buck.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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The ACA? What did it do but pump money into private insurance companies.
Yea, who cares if any those people got insurance. They aren't real Americans anyway...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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HOH_Man(ofort)
Robert Mueller's special counsel's office hit former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort with two more criminal charges Friday and added his longtime business associate Konstantin Kilimnik as a second defendant in the case, after accusing them earlier in the week of attempting to convince witnesses to commit perjury.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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I think I'm pretty scared of Alston Chase's numbers too.
He's pretty inflated about himself. . .
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dirtbag
climber
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“Democratic National Committee officials on Friday moved forward with a proposal to force the party’s presidential candidates to identify as Democrats, a move that drew immediate criticism from a top official in Bernie Sanders’ 2016 campaign.
So?
Isn’t that the point of the Democratic Party: to elect Democrats?
To stay on the outside of the party, then bitch when not fully embraced by the party, is pretty silly.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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The Democratic Party has always been in agreement with all of Bernie Sanders Policy recommendations
So the need for a third party is what is silly
It's really just another way to screw the people by dividing up our side so we are ineffective as a voting block
Please, what ideas of Bernie's are not part of the Democratic party Platform?
Any?
Are all Dems perfect?
Hell no, no one is
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Party platform and what you actually engage in are two different things. She would have made Sanders VP if she was actually interested in what 45% of the dem voters wanted.
Instead, we got the safe insider Timmy Kaine to keep the ticket pure.
Timmy will roll up his sleaves and work for you. Go, Timmy, Go.
Isn’t that the point of the Democratic Party: to elect Democrats?
How did that work out for you?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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No surprise here, Trump didn't know the words to God Bless America- a song we all learned to sing in grade school.
I'm fairly certain he knows the theme song to Gilligan's Island.
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dirtbag
climber
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you didn't get the point, gents.
Are we becoming a party of exclusion?
Moose
No. Anyone is free to join. If he wants to run as a dem, join the party.
I’m not sympathetic to folks who neither join the party or join late then whine about how the party is not going to bat for them.
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dirtbag
climber
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How did that work out for you?
Gosh, yer sooooo right! If only the socialist was nominated we wouldn’t have had trump. Cuz America has always voted for socialists!
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monolith
climber
state of being
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The 'socialist' beat Hillary in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Do those states ring a bell?
Considering the razer thin margins of the rust belt states, Hillary would be president if she had the very popular Sanders campaigning as VP by her side.
Love it when people use the 'socialist' label, particularly when the 'socialist' got 45% of the dem vote. Ignorance on display.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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The main reason Trump will win in 2020 is the unwillingness of the DNC players to make substantive changes in the parties platform and strategy.
You are out of touch with real problems and concerns of the working public, you've been losing members for a decade and your constant attack on everything new and different is unproductive.
Get used to Trump. You are the reason he is and will remain our president for the next 6 years.
Now go climb a rock.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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You are out of touch with real problems and concerns of the working public
I'm curious what the "real" concerns of the working public are and in what general manner the working public would like these real concerns addressed.
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Trump
climber
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Yes, Hill-dawg would have been better than what we are living but she and Bill represent the worst of the Dem Party at the top
The dems and the repubs both put their worst foot forward. Common ground!
And the repubs worst foot won. How can we all stop putting our worst foot forward, without blaming other people for what we do.
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dirtbag
climber
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The 'socialist' beat Hillary in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Do those states ring a bell?
Considering the razer thin margins of the rust belt states, Hillary would be president if she had the very popular Sanders campaigning as VP by her side.
Love it when people use the 'socialist' label, particularly when the 'socialist' got 45% of the dem vote. Ignorance on display
And guess what?
He still lost.
Oh I know, Debbie whatersname Schultz and whatnot.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Hear that sucking sound, dirtbag? It's the sound of a loser blaming other folks for losing.
edit: your kettle color is showing there, black man.
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dirtbag
climber
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Yes, some of the Bernie supporters indeed do that, cowboy.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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go climb a rock
Do you have the permission of Delaware North to use that phrase?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Trump has managed to "Trump-Up" the G-7 meeting in Quebec with our closest long-term allies.
I don't understand why he acts like a spoiled child, except that it appears he is a spoiled adult/child.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-west-is-in-crisis-despite-trumps-glowing-assessment/ar-AAyqTjP?li=BBnb7Kz
President Donald Trump said Saturday that his relationships with other Western leaders are perfect, but the truth is the transatlantic alliance has never been so split.
Trump angrily hit back at suggestions that he had thrown the West into turmoil at the G7 summit in Canada, branding a question over any downturn in relations as "fake news." Yet Trump showed up late and left early from a summit that highlighted gaping divides within the bloc of democratic industrialized nations that America nurtured.
But when he was asked about frustrations flying between him and other leaders like French President Emmanuel Macron and Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, he reacted angrily.
"I would say the level of relationship is a 10. We have a great relationship. Angela (Merkel) and Emmanuel (Macron), Justin (Trudeau). I would say the relationship is a 10," Trump said.
His anger was revealing of his operating method as President, his attitude towards America's traditional foreign policy positions and his skill in using theatrical moments on the world stage to send a strong message to his loyal voters back home.
Trump's hyperbolic praise for a summit that was evidently discordant shows his refusal to allow any venture in which he is involved to be portrayed as anything other than a roaring success.
It's far from the first time Trump has created an alternative reality that serves his political narrative.
The President's comments also show how he views international diplomacy through the prism of personal connections with other leaders.
This is a holdover from his days as a deal closing real estate executive. It also hints at his view that lavish receptions he has received in places like China and Saudi Arabia are signs of unusual respect for him personally, and thus, show US ties with such states have never been better.
Trump's critics argue he is fixated on optics and risks falling prey to foreign states who use personal flattery as a way to get what they want from him on more meaningful issues.
So while Macron, who winked at Trump when he turned up late for breakfast Saturday, and Trudeau and British Prime Minister Theresa May all may have been cordial towards him, that doesn't mean that they are not frustrated and perplexed at the same time.
One senior European diplomat rejected Trump's 10-out-of-10 assessment.
"He must mean there are 10 things on which we totally disagree. Or like the title of the movie, '10 Things I Hate About You,'" the diplomat told CNN's Michelle Kosinski.
G6+1
In the days before the summit, European leaders made no secret of the fact that there were fundamental disagreements with Trump, leading some observers to dub the summit the G6+1.
"The American President may not mind being isolated, but neither do we mind signing a 6 country agreement if need be. Because these 6 countries represent values, they represent an economic market which has the weight of history behind it and which is now a true international force," Macron, who sources said also had a difficult call with Trump, tweeted on Thursday.
Trudeau and Trump also had an acrimonious exchange over the phone over his decision to impose steel and aluminum tariffs on US allies, CNN has reported. And before he left for Quebec, Trump accused the European Union and Canada of treating the US "unfairly."
And Chancellor Angela Merkel has made clear her disquiet with Trump's policies, arguing that Germany may no longer be able to rely on its US ally.
Her spokesman Steffen Seibert tweeted a picture that seemed to capture the mood of the summit.
Merkel, hands on a table, is leaning over the President who, seated, looks defiant, with his arms crossed, with national security adviser John Bolton peering over his shoulder.
Macron is also engaging Trump -- while Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is standing with arms folded and with a resigned look on his face.
Another view, tweeted by White House social media director Dan Scavino shows the same exchange but in a less tense moment, with some officials grinning.
It's about more than personalities
At their root, tensions between Trump and fellow leaders run deeper than personality.
In European capitals, officials complain that the US President's populist nationalism and economic sovereignty arguments reject values that have bolstered the West since World War II.
There have been tensions and trade spats before. In 2003, France and Germany broke with the United States in a bitter dispute over the US invasion of Iraq. But the West has never been so divided over ideology.
And no US President has been so solicitous to the West's foes, like Russian President Vladimir Putin and China's President Xi Jinping, and treated America's partners as adversaries.
Trump's faithfulness to his election promises on pulling out of the Paris climate deal and the Iran nuclear pact also caused splits with allies who believe both agreements are critical to their national security.
Many Europeans view Trump's claim that climate change is a hoax, his policies on immigration, his racial and religious rhetoric and his "America First" ideology as antithetical to European values.
Trump has frequently expressed disdain for the EU and was an enthusiastic cheerleader after Britain voted to leave the bloc.
A year into his presidency, it is now clear that efforts by foreign leaders to manage and temper the unpredictable US leader have failed, and that he is who he said he would be.
That leaves America's allies with a huge problem.
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dirtbag
climber
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^^^Wtf is wrong with that man? ^^^
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Bernie as VP would have been worse ,for sure.
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A Essex
climber
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Trump is a King and will be in for life.
mark my words
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Pardon
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 06:12am PT
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Dirtbag, how many people identify with the Democratic Party at 100%?
And, what is the party’s agenda anyway? It changes all the time. It used to be racist, now is against it. It used to be fiscally liberal, now it’s against excessive spending. The same with the GOP. The game seems to be, if a Republican is supporting it, a Democrat has to be against it, and vice versa.
Following somebody’s agenda leads to fanatism. I vote with the Democrats because I have much less in common with the Republicans. If you (partisans) keep pounding on me, I’ll stop voting for any party.
It’s not about “if you are not with us, you are against us”.
Think about it.
Who says you have to agree with a party’s platform 100% of the time, or that its some kind of lifetime commitment? As you point out, it’s agenda is not immutable.
I still don’t see why a party would give someone resources if they can’t even bother to join.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 06:18am PT
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Social climber
909
Jun 10, 2018 - 04:22am PT
During the summit itself, Trump's behavior seemed almost deliberately disdainful: coming late, leaving early, contradicting others on Russia and suggesting that Canada lift all tariffs on US goods (which elicited a nervous laugh from Trudeau).
Such a humiliating disgrace, with awful consequences.
We are going to pay for this, literally, and it will be well deserved. I hope our next president can mend some fences. Sorry, world. Most of us didn’t vote for this as#@&%e.
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A Essex
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 06:30am PT
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you still think there will be a 'next president'
StOOpid MuriKKKns luv authoritarianism now
big Sky Daddy is brought to life on Earth.... Halleluia!
damn Canada and their socialist milks!!!!
this weirdo is in for life
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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John McCain does some pushback on Trump's loutish behavior at the Quebec G-7 meeting.
Trump's decision not to endorse the G7 communique brought pushback from some in the US, including Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, who broke with Trump on Twitter.
"To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," McCain wrote. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't."
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 10, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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If you (partisans) keep pounding on me, I’ll stop voting for any party.
So you would give up your right to vote because of some heated comments on the Internet?
Got it.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 10, 2018 - 09:51am PT
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He has his piss boy Bolton with him.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 10, 2018 - 10:22am PT
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The DNC asking for loyalty pledges sounds very much like Trump asking for loyalty pledges.
Is there some kind of loyalty ceremony? Does Hillary preside?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jun 10, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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None of us outside the US really cared if Trump beclowned himself this weekend, again. We recognize who he was before he was elected and are ready to be ourselves with the US now or whenever you can get it back together. Until then everyone is just waiting it out so we can interact with the US as a whole in an adult fashion again.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
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The rest of the world sees tRump as a joke. The ultimate ugly American. An arrogant, classless, fat slob who thinks being American and white gives him the right to push everyone else around. Even the brutal dictators he sucks up to think he is a clown, and are making a fool out of him.
I have zero doubt that Putin has compromised tRump. He is using him to destroy America’s standing in the world.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 10, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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I fear that Pud and others who say that Trump will be re-elected may very well be 'right'.
As for NK, I think it is win-win for Kim and Trump. Regardless of the outcome, Kim will have gained the recognition that he (and his father and grandfather) has sought, sitting down with the POTUS of the US, probably legitimizing NK in many eyes, while Trump will spin the meeting as being successful, even if it may not be.
His base support will believe that he was successful, some people sitting on the fence may just jump to his “side” and those who know what a scumbag he is will not be suckered, and Trump will not care about the latter. IMO he doesn’t care about any of the three “groups”, he just wants to appear as a winner.
We (I) have to admit he is not the idiot some have taken him for, though mentally ill and incompetent, but he certainly is good at marketing, certainly his own brand.
Unless there is a serious Republican willing to take Trump on in the primaries (never will happen) he will win the nomination. As some commentators have said, it is no longer the Republican Party but the Trump Party.
And the Democrats still cannot seem to get their act together, though I hope I am wrong.
After Trump? The way I read things are going in America, the arch-conservatives/alt-right may will be in power (all three branches of government) for some time to come.
But eventually the pendulum will swing back, and hopefully get stuck in the middle.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 10, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
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"To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," McCain wrote. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't."
So, McCain is speaking for American now? Does anybody think that McCain's opinions are relevant anymore?
Do you libs really endorse "globalization," which really means "American global empire"? How do you think that's going to come about if not for the ever-increasing ascendancy of the very mega-corps you claim to despise?
Ohhh, wait just a doggone minute. Is this the same McCain that you libs despised when he ran? The one that chose Palin as a running mate? The one you worried was so ultra-right that he (now like Trump) could cause an existential crisis?
Those "shared values"? You mean McCain's values?
Count me confused by strange bedfellows.
Or is your present argument something like, "Even that whack-job McCain can't stand how whacked out Trump is. Trump is whacked beyond even whacked."?
You mean the Party-endorsed McCain? Yeah, Trump is anything but Party-endorsed. But that couldn't have anything to do with McCain's present sour grapes, could it?
Who knows? It's a straw that a grasping, helpless perspective can cling to as it circles the drain and learns NOTHING from its past arrogance and flagrant mistakes.
Pretty much everything you guys have predicted from three years ago, and counting, has failed to materialize. Let's see. Here's a VERY short list....
* Hillary will win, cannot lose, and it will be an electoral landslide.
Oops, that land slid the wrong way. It seems that the rest of the nation simply refused to be overpowered by the over-large populations of a few left-wing states. (Try to remember that it's a GOOD thing that we have a republic rather than a democracy.)
* Trump will not last 100 days and will be impeached before then.
Oops, that's not happening, and it's way past 100 days. LOL
BTW, how long could/should we expect the supposed "Querencia Phase" to last? I'm just curious if this clever turn of phrase actually explicates anything. Perhaps some bright bulb can illuminate how we'd know when the "Querencia Phase" is over, cuz it sure looks like Trump's here for the long haul.
* Stock market crash.
Oops. Typical blips, but ever climbing.
* Economic crisis. Recession. Depression.
Oops. If the lowest unemployment rate and fastest rate of job growth (among MANY other indicators of economic health) in 18 years is a "crisis," then I guess: bring it! I, for one, live for such "crisis." And that's contrary to what liberal rags, like Slate, assert without stats, that the participation rate is "way down, as people have just given up finding a job." In FACT, as of May the labor participation rate stands at 62.70, which is in line with the average from 1950 until the present, and WELL above the 1954 low of 58.10. Can we have more of this sort of crisis?
* War with N Korea. Possibly (likely) nuclear. Escalating into war with China.
Oops. Talks arrangements are proceeding, and N Korea has formally put on the table its willingness to entirely denuclearize. Sanctions working; bluff called. Maybe Trump's better informed and equipped to play this game than armchair quarterbacks and talking heads. Just a thought.
* Abandonment by the rest of the world.
Oops. Oh, crap, and then there was Brexit, Spain, Greece, the EU's quickly declining GDP and economic relevancy, etc.; now it looks like the EU is gonna need us more than ever. You think that S Korea and Japan are abandoning us? Canada?
* Absolute overthrow of the free press.
As if we have a free press now. LOL. Trump is just the first President in my lifetime that isn't running scared of your so-called "free" press. He calls it what it is, and you guys just FREAK. It is seriously hilarious. Oh wait. Any minute Trump is going to turn off the Internet because too many people say not-nice things about him there.
That's literally how ludicrous your hand-wringing predictions are.
Take a chill pill. Your "free" press should take one too.
You guys have such tunnel vision that from an outsider's point of view, occasionally looking in this thread for its sheer entertainment value (and wondering how long CMac is going to let the frothing-over continue), I stand in flat-out awe.
In my lifetime I have literally never heard such moaning and whining, epithets, and sheer raging hate as among the defeated libs now. While you rage and hate, advocate the President's violent death, call names and make vile associations about anybody who doesn't drink your particular flavor of Kool-Aid, and you now embrace McCain!, sane people around this nation watch and think, "Uh, THOSE idiots can never be allowed to gain power!"
Do you REALLY believe that "the story" is THAT the DNC got hacked rather than what the hacking REVEALED about DNC corruption? Do you really believe that mainstream America is so fixated on the former that, like you, they literally ignore the latter?
Do you REALLY believe that moderates and independents watch your behavior (with this thread being just one of many examples) and think, "Yeah! Trump IS a Nazi, and we have to put in power ANYBODY (like Hillary) that the Democratic party (corruptly) hands us next time."?
If you honestly think so, keep dreaming, but brace for impact. You guys and your heroes like Obama, Waters, Feinstein, and Pelosi are SO far left that "center" isn't even a distant, tiny speck on your horizons. And you've had about all the pendulum-swing you're gonna get.
Hey, I know what can help! Make GUN CONTROL the center of the upcoming Democratic platform! That's bound to gain you lots of traction in mainstream America.
Pffftttt.
With any administration, it's possible for the "other side" to find lots and lots to bash on. But, you know, objectively speaking, things are going pretty well. Its quite apparent that the sky isn't falling in any of the ways you have predicted. And we've survived other shitestorms in the WH, you know, like Bill Clinton. Trump wasn't the first, and he won't be the last. Corrupt parties (both of them) and human nature will ensure that.
Chill out; it's not an existential crisis.
Let's give him another six years and see how it goes. Waddaya say, guys?
;-)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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And the Democrats still cannot seem to get their act together, though I hope I am wrong.
Finally, a spark of prescience among the libs on this thread.
But eventually the pendulum will swing back, and hopefully get stuck in the middle.
Given the "arch left" evidenced on this thread, t'aint likely.
America has become fundamentally factious and for one reason: The federal government was NEVER supposed to become ALL-powerful, yet it finally has.
Now, every election is "life or death" because it is so inordinately important that "people that think more or less like me" wield that ABSOLUTE and all-pervasive power!
Centrists, by definition don't think "enough like" anybody to garner the needed money and support. So the "edges" grow and grow and become more and more frothy and invested in the FIGHT! This thread is a perfect example.
It's human nature to want to control other people. The left and right have different control-priorities, but they are NOT about freedom. It's about power and control. Period.
Recognize that sick fact, realize that the United States CAN no longer be the "land of the free," and then you'll understand why each election from now on MUST become more and more corrupt and contentious, with more and more hand-wringing and violence from the losing party.
The center is nowhere to be had at this point. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think that we're sliding down a slippery slope anymore. I believe that we're nearing the bottom.
And BOTH parties believe that their version of the bottom is the high moral ground.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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Life is too short to read a mb WOT defending our racist president.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:11pm PT
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Nice posts, MB. I think what we’re seeing is the final devolvement of the two party system along the lines of your absolute power premise. At least parliamentary systems are forced to compromise although the Italians make a mockery of that.
Dirtbag, you’ve got better than that I would have hoped.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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^^^ That!
This is pure game theory.
We all lose.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:37pm PT
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I am happy you are so confident with our POTUS,you are the minority.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:41pm PT
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Wilbeer, you is not very specific. YOU and yer fellow libtard reading comprehension challenged crankloons make endless fallacious assumptions which don’t even rise to the level of fallacious defuctions.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:46pm PT
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I am glad you’re confident,lol
Hey ,the economy is crushing , no doubt,he has everything in control,lol
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
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tRump is doing exactly what Uncle Puti told him to do. Break up the western alliances. Isolationism plays right into his plans. Any bets on Uncle Puti’s next “annexation”?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jun 10, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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It isn’t break up. It is break away. The rest of us are all still friends despite the seven year old throwing tantrums in the G7 room.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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tRump is doing exactly what Uncle Puti told him to do.
You brainwashed nutcase morons with your Russian collusion nonsense.
You're worst than trump and dumber than a sack rocks you sit on.
You people are sooo damn st00pid you deserve a moron like Trump ......
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 10, 2018 - 04:35pm PT
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MB1 & Reilly?
I am curious when you look at this photo taken at the G7 by an Angela Merkel aide, if you see what I see?
I see a U.S. President, who is obviously showing very negative body language, with his crossed arms & defiant body posture, to world leaders we should be getting along with. But, I also sense so much more, from the attitude of others in the photo
Merkel is obviusly making a point, Abe is also showing crossed arms, but has overall relaxed body language, Bolton is also in a negative stance & clearly looks like he wants to say something.
It does not make me proud of Trump.
How about you folks?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 10, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
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Pardon
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
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tRump looks like a little boy who wants to take his ball and go home because all the adults are being mean to him.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jun 10, 2018 - 05:29pm PT
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Bolton is preparing to put his foot in his mouth.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 10, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
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I am glad you’re confident,lol
I'm not "confident." I'm simply not wringing-hands, frothing, stressed like you guys. No more than does one politard thread get shut down, and another springs up. You libs RULE these threads, and they end up as almost pure echo-chambers until they are again shut down.
You LIVE in false-dichotomies. Anybody not as distressed as you is "confident." Anybody who doesn't agree with you is a "racist," "misogynist," or "Nazi." For you guys, it's a zero-sum game: YOU win, or the world is coming to an end.
Again, your predictions are dismal failures. Should be a wake-up call. It's not. That should indicate that you're in a bubble. It doesn't. That should indicate....
Well, reasonable people get the point.
Regarding the above picture, imagine YOUR life was literally lived under the camera, where every instant could be a photo-op by your enemies to paint you in the worst light. Every INSTANT could be taken out of context to PAINT a caricature of you.
Either you bow and scrape to the relentless "free" press, or they bury you! What you're seeing with Trump is a guy who literally doesn't give a shite about that stupidity.
Would you like me to start posting unflattering pics of Obama? Hillary? Waters (that's too easy!)? How would you "see" those?
You read into these instant-in-time pics whatever you're looking for. And your lack of reliability (and that of your preferred media) SHOULD cause you to realize that you're not "seeing" very accurately!
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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Jun 10, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
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^^^ Trump looks like a prick at any moment in time.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 10, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
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^^^ He is.
But so is Hillary. So is her husband, and he got the opportunity that few do: Personally sully the WH. Slick Willy indeed. But the media loved him.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
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If that table collapsed under it's obvious stress it would have sent Merkel's face straight into Trumps lap.
I think the guy on the left saw it coming. Killjoy.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
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MB1! I am always somewhat in awe of your massive posts & obviously quick thinking.
Of course, I sometimes wonder where you derive your obvious energy & passion, but that is not for me to judge.
However, earlier tonight, you refuted my post of John McCain’s thoughts on our President’s childlike behavior at the Quebec G7 meeting.
John McCain does some pushback on Trump's loutish behavior at the Quebec G-7 meeting.
Trump's decision not to endorse the G7 communique brought pushback from some in the US, including Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, who broke with Trump on Twitter.
"To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," McCain wrote. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't."
My McCain quote obviously spurred your response:
So, McCain is speaking for American now? Does anybody think that McCain's opinions are relevant anymore?
Do you libs really endorse "globalization," which really means "American global empire"? How do you think that's going to come about if not for the ever-increasing ascendancy of the very mega-corps you claim to despise?
Ohhh, wait just a doggone minute. Is this the same McCain that you libs despised when he ran? The one that chose Palin as a running mate? The one you worried was so ultra-right that he (now like Trump) could cause an existential crisis?
Those "shared values"? You mean McCain's values?
Count me confused by strange bedfellows.
Or is your present argument something like, "Even that whack-job McCain can't stand how whacked out Trump is. Trump is whacked beyond even whacked."?
You mean the Party-endorsed McCain? Yeah, Trump is anything but Party-endorsed. But that couldn't have anything to do with McCain's present sour grapes, could it?
I must reply, that I believe John McCain is an American hero, & I was going to vote for him in 2008, until he picked Palin as a running mate.
The thought of an Evangelical Christian, who appeared to know almost nothing about world events, being a heart-beat away from being President. convinced me to vote for Obama & I never regretted that decision.
My respect for John McCain has grown with his well-deserved opposition to our “know-nothing” president.
McCain vs Trump?
An American hero versus an American coward, who somehow became President & covers his bad behavior by being a bully.
By the way MB1, I accept that all conservatives are not the same, & you lower yourself & your credibility, by posting that you think all liberals are the same.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
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Fritz says -- "I believe..."
You're so brainwashed it's unbelievable.
McCain is an American global criminal.
A sick st00pid disgusting man who slaughters innocent people and did everything possible to fuk over the veterans for years ....
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
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Jgill
You beat me to it!
Bolton is almost as big an a$$ as tRump
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Bolton looks, and sounds like a guy I used to mountain bike with. Used to being the operative word.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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WBraun! Thank you for your thoughts!
Obviously!
You now respect me for voting for Obama!
Quack!
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:34pm PT
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ATG? I appreciate from a quick review of your 9 posts on ST, that you do have a climbing background.
However, many of us on this forum, have climbed, camped, drank, & talked with others that post here & know where they are combing from, when they post.
Unfortunately, I know nothing about you, except that you have been a climber & post that the Trump is a "wonderful-boss."
That is not nearly enough to make me support the bastard.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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he is troll, Fritz
nobody is that shallow, that worshiping
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
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yes-man, bootlicker, brown-noser, toady, lickspittle, flatterer, flunky, lackey, spaniel, doormat, stooge, cringer, suck, suck-up
"I thought you wanted a competent assistant, not a nodding sycophant
ie - Donald Trump ball cupper
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
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^Primo
""I request this thread be closed as using as a vehicle to insult each other is profane. How dare you guys drag your petty squabbles in to this?""
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 10, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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Fritz, I'm speaking in generalities rather than universalities.
Obviously on a thread like this, it's impossible to speak to every little detail with fine granularity.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 10, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
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That is not nearly enough to make me support the bastard.
Is that what we think we’re doing here? Trying to influence other people to believe what we believe?
Just FYI - that’s not what we’re doing here.
he is troll, Fritz
nobody is that shallow,
That’s the guy you choose to identify as an obvious troll, because his comments are shallow? Have you been reading this thread? If the idea that anyone could possibly be so supportive of Trump means that we need to immediately identify them as a disingenuous troll, in the face of the shallow self-confirming gibberish posted by many in opposition to Trump, why bother reading other people’s posts at all, unless we’re just trying to get off on the rightness of our own beliefs?
Again, your predictions are dismal failures.
Great point. And does that matter at all? We’re going to go on making dismal failures of predictions, because what we’re doing is, by and large, not trying to be objective, we’re just trying to validate our own subjective perspectives. Yes, those pointy horns are coming for me any day now.
It does not make me proud of Trump.
How about you folks?
I’m more embarrassed to be an American than I’ve ever been before. And I’d say the same about being a human.
And yet ... Best to y’all!
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 10, 2018 - 09:29pm PT
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I do believe Donald Trump will go down as one of the greatest presidents in American history.
troll
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jun 10, 2018 - 11:50pm PT
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If you muck about reading the writers of the 18th century Englightenment, you'll find there are a fair number of them who voiced concerns about the dangers of mobocracy and enthusiasm. Democracy does contain some implicit dangers.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 03:27am PT
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Madbolter and others, I consider myself a liberal, but just because I am, you are incorrect in writing that libs (like me) are in lockstep with the likes of the Clintons, Pelosi, the DNC, or any other “liberal” leftist whatever movement/party/organisation. I believe you have implied that, perhaps I read you wrong.
By pigeon holing liberals, you are using a narrow brush, (or is that a broad brush?) and doing exactly what you say the “other side” is doing. As for the whining, I do recall a lot of whining from the “right of centre” when Obama was elected, and of course the obstructionism of the Republicans, not compromise or consensus, but outright obstructionism.
Don’t take my word for it, the records of Congress are there to see.
Yes I despise (not hate, there is a difference) Trump, yes the system needs changed. Trump has been disruptive (though if not him, somebody else would have done it eventually, maybe somebody with more empathy and not just money-oriented, Hope Springs Eternal).
Disruption can be a good thing, or not so good, depending on how it is done and what it has achieved.
If some want to call me a libtard, I do not care, it is just a word. If some want to use a broad brush to tar me, big deal, I just want those people to know, they may be wrong.
On another note, whatever happens in Singapore, if either Trump and/or Kim receive a Nobel Peace Prize, it will just show a mockery of what that has become. In a BBC interview even Obama said he did not know why he received one, neither do I, what did he do to deserve such a "prize"?
Two examples IMO: If Kissinger received it (at least Le Duc Tho had the sense to decline it) and Aung San Suu Kyi (turning a blind eye to the Rohingya) as well, then it is a worthless prize.
Nobel is not noble.
And yes this thread has become an echo chamber, for both "sides", the libtards are just more vociferous than the rightards. I am a wingnut, you are a wingnut, let's all become wingnuts. A toast to the wingnuts in the world.
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A Essex
climber
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:37am PT
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hey ATG, did tRump let u use one of his porn stars? are u a 'christian'?
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Late Starter
Social climber
NA
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:42am PT
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Can you guys photoshop Obama in all your funny screenshots and headlines, that way we can all be be brainwashed into talking about a Nobel Peace Prize and amazing Time Magazine covers.
There isn't anything Trump could do that would force you to live outside your brainwashed mainstream hate.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:27am PT
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I am not stressed at all,rather entertained,I really do not have to call you names to prove anything.
I am happy you are confident.
38% are happy.
Reasonable people get the point......lol
But, but ,Obama,HIllary.....lol
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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Can you guys photoshop Obama in all your funny screenshots and headlines
that has already been done, for the entire 8 years of his Presidency
deflection to the prior President will not work, try again out of desperation, you can't defend
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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That’s the guy you choose to identify as an obvious troll, because his comments are shallow?
correct, nobody is that ignorant in America anymore, he is a troll
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jun 11, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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I wish Cosmiccragman was on this thread still. Cosmic, are you still out there?
He was so proud when the president kept his campaign promise to move our embassy to Jerusalem.
I'd like to ask his impression of Trump's recent G-7 performance (It'd be nice to just get an answer without all the usual noise).
Cosmic and other conservatives: why, oh why did our President suggest that Russia should be readmitted to that G-7? Why the overt hostility to our free-world allies of 70 years?
My impression is that Trump was keeping a campaign promise by suggesting Russia's readmission. I can't think of any other reason he'd do it.
My worry is that the promise Trump made wasn't to American voters.
Please explain to me how I am wrong.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 07:54am PT
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Isn't Trump's "The Art of the Deal" to screw everyone else while he comes out with the goods?
How's that going work out with North Korea?
Well we all know the Trump is a lousy deal maker because he's nothing more than a cowardly bully
and when he doesn't get his way, he will whine and retaliate.
all bad for America
and why do we still have to hear about Hillary?
The spokes are coming off the wheels and some here can only quell their frothing guilt by blaming Hillary for not winning??
Or others for noting voting for her, or some kind of crap
It looks more and more like she did win, but with the illegal voter purges, knocking voters off the rolls, and other fraud including Russian.
Like Clapper says, Trump is wholly an illegitimate President, and he should know
We are in a Constitutional Crisis, something has to be done to stop Trump and his Deep State Swamp Monster assault on our Democracy
and by the way Mad hatter, that corruption at the DNC was more Russian troll farm outrage, so you are zero for zero
Breaking into the DNC is what took Nixon down, so the crime is stealing the data and using it as a weapon
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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Trump is bringing world leaders together.
He is leading.
He is stopping the flagrant disregard our "friends" have for fair trade.
Your paychecks go farther than they have in the last decade because he is not afraid to dismantle the insane regulations put on this nation by the last admin.
You cry because he doesn't do things the way you think they should be done but, are more than happy to reap the benefits of his work.
Trolls like Norton, groundchuck, healyje, tom, 10b and their ilk have no life.
This is why they condemn and criticize those that do.
Pure jealousy.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:18am PT
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^^^
pure insanity
That's bringing World Leaders together????
he hasn't made my life better in one single aspect
in fact, he has made my life worse
and less secure
and I do have a life, and one aspect about my life is keeping up on current events, which I guess makes you mad since we disagree
vvvv
succeeding to rip America apart is one of Conservatives greatest goals,
let the Billionaires and the mafia run it
So I can see why it makes you happy.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:21am PT
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He's succeeding then.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:24am PT
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Trump is bringing world leaders together.
He is leading.
Thanks Pud, but conclusions aren't very helpful. On the other hand I'd like to read your explanations behind that conclusion.
I see him driving away allies who share our values. I'll read your explanation of how I am wrong (your explanation, not your conclusion - your conclusion isn't interesting).
And do you have an explanation for why he suggested bringing Russia back into the G-7?
Same with your Rick. You "drive by" this thread once in a while and give your conclusions. Care to provide any of the explanation behind them?
How are my impressions of Trump on these issues wrong?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:30am PT
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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Trolls like Norton, groundchuck, healyje, tom, 10b and their ilk have no life.
pay no attention to Wayne, aka pud. He put a lot of effort into getting Williamson Rock reopened, but alas he failed. . . . . .miserably.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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I was just on the phone lastweek with the USFS regarding Williamson.
Never say die mother fuker !!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:46am PT
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I wonder how many of these girls are out there,
the author of Fire and Fury says there are hundreds!!!!
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:54am PT
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They hate all those pesky job killing regulations except when the regulations affect them.
Note to Mr. Clueless, all regulations are put in place to protect people LIKE YOU, except they are protecting other people that need protection
or big things that need protection, like the air, water and environment
AND!!!
Regulations create jobs, my job as an air pollution tester is because of regulations
Fact, cutting regulations only kills jobs, no jobs are created because some company can pollute more
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 11, 2018 - 09:10am PT
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Regulations create jobs, my job as an air pollution tester is because of regulations
Skill and ability are a better way to get a job craig.
Powercrux dumps black water on park blvd but thinks he's an environmentalist.
Scumbag more like.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 09:22am PT
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You don't approve of me making my living as a Air Pollution Scientist?
Science isn't a good skill set?
is that your claim?
What kind of skills do you use to make a living?
Please let me know so I can approve of it
or not
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 10:08am PT
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Nothing better than pissing off liberals
Lincoln (liberal) would be proud
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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PUD confidently posted:
Your paychecks go farther than they have in the last decade because he is not afraid to dismantle the insane regulations put on this nation by the last admin.
Name those regulations passed into law by the Obama Administration that were "insane"
and then "dismantled", therefore resulting in larger paychecks for me
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 11, 2018 - 10:56am PT
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‘We’re America, Bitch,'"
Which is derived from “America, f*#k yeah!”
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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Further to my last post, contrary to some people's beliefs or implications, I do not believe that most liberals want Trump to "fail" with the Kim talks, I sincerely believe most sound and sane people, liberals and conservatives, want to find a solution to the "Korean" situation.
I hope for the best outcome for the talks, or as least for positive dialogue and progression towards a peaceful solution.
That said, I do not trust Kim or Trump one iota as far as their concerns are for peace. As far as I can tell, and of course I am not an expert on the matter, just my gut feeling, neither man has altruistic motives but rather ulterior motives… such as making sure they stay in power and enrich themselves further.
Neither gives a damn about the "people". That is how I see it. I'd hope I am wrong. For the world for the people.
Jerry Molen ("Death of a Nation"), sounds like he has turned into a right-winger. He didn't seem so when I interviewed him at Amblin in 1995. People do change.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 11:08am PT
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Trump's isolationistic America First nationalism is naive and immature in 2018
prices for corn and soybeans are dropping across the plains are Trump's tariffs hurt farmers
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jun 11, 2018 - 11:10am PT
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Let's see how well this "We're America B!" strategy works for us in the coming decades as China continues it's economic growth and continues to expand it's military with more equipment and more investment and more soldiers that will inexorably overpower us. We'll try to match and escalate for a while, until our history of deconstructionist government policies catch up and we can no longer generate enough tax base to pay for that military (never mind all the society-advancing programs we canceled long before). Then we go running to whomever is left in NATO, and we will find no help because in deconstructing ourselves we have also deconstructed the world order that would have provided some oversight of individual nations.
We will become the victim of our own short-sighted game. And people in small towns across America will blame whatever President is in office at that point, and look back longingly at how great President Trump was and we need a new leader to bring back that pride we felt in those days.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 11, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
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History could teach.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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Is it a case that every generation is doomed to repeat the mistakes of the previous generation?
Ad infinitum.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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So it is a learning curve, a process, that every generation has to go through? Is that in order to grow?
Out here in the fields...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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We will become the victim of our own short-sighted game.
There is no short-sighted game. Trump is simply a 2-bit player with a role to follow perhaps with a little of his own orange flair. If he strays too far, he'll be removed.
The game is actually long and there's plenty of ruin to plunder in this empire still on it's inexorable way down. Others will rise.
The real game is measured in thousands of years and scores of generations.
We're along for the ride squabbling among ourselves over BS propaganda, false dichotomies, and table scraps tossed into the ring. Same as it's ever been.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
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Um, San Francisco, Seattle, Houston, and New York City come to mind.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
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LA, SF, NYC
now can you tell us a single thing that Republicans have done that has helped the Average American?
Next questions, where do you get your lies about Liberals, from Rush?
or Hannity, or both?
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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From a friend of mine.
In solidarity with the Golden State Warriors. Justify has turned down an invitation to the White House. He decided that if he wanted to see a horse's ass, he would have finished second.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
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Um, San Francisco, Seattle, Houston, and New York City come to mind.
don't fall for it !!
do not answer easily answerable questions from conservatives...
it enables them, it is not your job to educate conservatives..
they need to learn how to do internet searches on their own, without your help
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
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PUD confidently posted:
Your paychecks go farther than they have in the last decade because he is not afraid to dismantle the insane regulations put on this nation by the last admin.
Name those regulations passed into law by the Obama Administration that were "insane"
and then "dismantled", therefore resulting in larger paychecks for me
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
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ATG, I do not have those stats or those cities.
But on another note, I am glad you have been paid fully by the Trump organization and treated well.
However, perhaps you can explain the many contractors and sub-contractors who have complained or indeed filed legal complaints against the Trump organization? Or the multiple (hundreds, some say thousands) of lawsuits that Donald Trump has been involved in, either as a defendant or a plaintiff?
That is a heck of a lot of litigation. It strikes me as something not being on the level.
I do no think you are a troll. Nobody who claims to be in the sheet metal business would lie or exaggerate. One of my best friends is in the sheet metal business.
Also, stick by your leader, Mr Trump. You are on a winner.
Best wishes, Patrick
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 11, 2018 - 01:57pm PT
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I’m sure the families of the 4600 dead Puerto Rican’s are wearing maga caps in appreciation of trump’s deft handling of last year’s disaster.
The paper towels also came in handy.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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At the end of the day, Donald Trump is just another piece of crap in my eyes. If he achieves his "greatness", so be it, he will always be crap in my eyes. It is not hate, despise yes, but I can see through him.
But as many have said and pointed out, he is but a symptom of the malaise that affects all of the US, and perhaps indeed, the world.
I am no philosopher, but I have been around the block and in more than one country, living and working. Trump is not a saviour as his loyal followers believe, nor the sycophants in the so-called Republican party who support him.
If he achieves some sort of intelligent, successful plan for the Korean issue, kudos to him. But as I see it, both Kim and Trump are not doing it for the common good, but for themselves. Time will tell.
Trump supporters, he does not give a flying f for you, you are just a means to an end for him.
Trump dissenters, it does not look good.
He will be re-elected, the way things are going now. Perhaps it may change.
That is my two cents. I will rebut anybody, but only if they have a serious contention with my POV. Otherwise, let's not waste each other's time.
EDIT
And to be honest, I have really never liked any of the post-war (WW2) presidents, those that were in my lifetime. Carter, good heart but sort of weak, I kind of liked Ike.
Who in the world would want to be POTUS. Don't look at me. No thanks. I'll leave it to the vain, self-righteous, glory-hunting megalomaniacs out there. Good luck and good riddance.
Before I was born? FDR? yeah, I suppose so. Okay.
Teddy was okay, but then my grandfather was a Rough Rider with him, so there is a bias. And he liked national parks.
Otherwise I cannot think of a POTUS that has inspired me. Lincoln? Perhaps. Jefferson? Washington? Meh.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
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Wow ATG, us liberals are a threat to America. I never knew that.
Some may say that the right-wingnuts are a threat to America.
Who to believe?
They have the lie about everything and use deception and chaos to get their way which ultimately brings everything to ruin.
Wait a minute, are you telling me that Donald Trump is a liberal? I never knew that.
Easy words on your part ATG. I suppose easy words on my part too.
Hook, line and sinker. They've got you ATG. That's cool, to each their own.
Sometimes my critical thinking faculty is f*#ked up too, usually because of one glass of wine too many. What is your reason/excuse?
Liberals are a bigger threat to our country than ISIS could ever dream of being. But, there is always the opt out option.
Leave the country. Leave the world. Gtfo and bye.
Gtfo? Like get the f*#k off and bye? So you do not like other people's opinions but those that jive with yours, is that right? People who disagree with you are not worthy of a place on this planet?
Wow. If that is not elitism I do not know what is.
I still do not think you are a troll. But I am glad there are still reasonable conservatives and liberals out there. Oh wait, us liberals are the real threat to America, according to the gospel of ATG.
Get real dude.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
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Not worth a response, Patrick.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
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Moron Alert
What a load of crap
Everything 100% backwards
does everyone like high priced health care like the Repubs gave us
and everybody hates low cost healthcare like the libs want,
that makes sense
and everyone wants dirty air, and the mafia running things
and an out of control ICE taking babies
and being hated by other countries
and trade wars
which is a war
everybody loves these things
and everybody hates the opposite
moron
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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Dirtbag, I know, but I do not think this guy (gal?) is a troll. I think he/she really believes that liberals are a threat to the US. How so effing sad. I do not think that conservatives are a threat to the US, I think they are a plus, like liberals.
ATG, if he is 'real', his line of narrow thinking, be it left or right or cosmic, is the threat to democracy.
Just my opinion, what do I know, right ATG?
EDIT
And if ATG is a troll, then the hook, line and sinker has got me. Hah hah.
I love it, I am having fun. I used to take it seriously, perhaps still do in some ways, but then I read what I have written, what others have written and I think: "There must be more to life than this. Where is the nearest rock? If I cannot climb it, I'll jump off." Hopefully there will be deep water below.
I think the Calanques, limestone and then "plonck" in the Med, Three Pools off of 120 down the fire trail from Rainbow Pool (after Buck Meadows before Yo NP entrance) .
ATG go jump in a lake. The bridge over Berryessa is a good start. Fun too.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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ATG,
Republicans got their whole wishlist in Governor Brownback’s Kansas—how’d that work out?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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Pat
take a listen to Rush, Mark Levin or Hannity
that's what they say is true, it's the liberals that are the ENEMY
These idiots have no idea it's all lies
Was it OK for Trump to bomb Syria but not OK for Obama?
How about all the other troops lost due to Trump's blunders?
And 6400 dead in Puerto Rico
that's more than Bush killed in 911 and Katrina
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 11, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
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Do you hate Jesus too
since his ideas were all liberal
Do unto others as you would do unto you
cater to the least among us
name one conservative teaching of Jesus'
I guess he can't debate real issues
but has all the canned responses ready to go
Here's another question
What did liberals lie about, what liberal chaos?
are you sure you just aren't projecting?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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Dirtbag, I know, but I do not think this guy (gal?) is a troll.
I do
nobody is that painfully, so obviously intellect challenged, has to be a troll
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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PUD confidently posted:
Your paychecks go farther than they have in the last decade because he is not afraid to dismantle the insane regulations put on this nation by the last admin.
Name those regulations passed into law by the Obama Administration that were "insane"
and then "dismantled", therefore resulting in larger paychecks for me
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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here is really no reason to discuss these things here. This is a climbers forum.
I have nothing to learn from liberal politics. I am only interested in the wholesale defeat of the idea.
ATG, I am biting because it is fun.
As far as a "Climber's" Forum, you are new to the Taco Stand (I think, perhaps you are the ghost of Christmas past, an exiled Supertopian posting under a new handle). It has been debated before. I think, and I could be wrong, that it is not a "Climbing" forum, but a "Climber's" forum, hence just like around the camp fire we talk more than just shop.
Otherwise it may be a bit boring, thought ST does have some of the best TRs, advice and stories from yesterday.
You claim you have nothing to learn from liberal politics, that you want to defeat liberal politics. What then? An homogenous world?
How boring.
Think about it ATG, if liberals were not there, who would you vent your hatred and frustration, who would you target? Your cat? Your dog? Your partner?
Be thankful for liberals, they give you a reason to hate. Though I am sure you would find another reason to hate.
If Trump had a jockstrap, would you lick it?
You come across as more self-righteous than many conservatives and liberals that I have met and known. Maybe you are knot, note I stress, you "come across". Am I judging you? I suppose so, like you seem to judge all liberals. You want us off the earth, you wrote it. How sad.
Leave the world. Gtfo and bye.
I do not want you off the planet. Earth needs all kinds of people, even ignorant ones, that is how we learn, in some ways, through our ignorance and the ignorance of others. And the realization of such ignorance, the futility of it.
Who is the close-minded ignorant one? You or me?
Therein lies my lesson for the day. Now as far as sheet metal is concerned, enlighten me. It makes good chimney flues, doesn't it?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 11, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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ATG...You can't sniff Trump's jock it's been subpoened by Mike Avenatti for the Stormy case...rj
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:02pm PT
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to debate morons on.
That is Mr Moron to you, if you please ATG. There are so many morons out there, I need to be differentiated, so ATG please be kind and courteous to this snowflake, Mr Patrick Moron, if you will. A little respect, please.
Quite a speech. How much is true? I would hope all of it, otherwise you are just a twit like many who can claim this and that, falsely, to try and prove a point. And do you care what I think? I do not think so. So this snowflake will just melt in the sun.
Yep, get cosmiccragman to come up with the usual. How is the window cleaning Cosmic? Yeah, you got a response out of me, and I laugh. Duane/Dwayne, how do you spell your name?
There is a rhyme somewhere in there.
ATG, I am in awe of you. That could be awesome or awful. Take your pick. You are a saint. Hispanic wife, unpaid service in Africa to the underprivileged. I am in awe. More that I have done.
Ever thinking about running for office?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:09pm PT
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Dwain, one can never believe what is true under one's avatar.
ATG I corrected that before you did, Of course, rhyme, why couldn't it be spelt rime, like lime? Semantics, linguistics or just linguine. Or lasagna.
ATG, with the exception of this forum and emails, both of which I do not consider to be social media, as my Facebook page is hardly touched and I am not a tweeter twit, I have never tweeted, nor ever will, I would never post anything on a YouTube or such, i do not do social media a such, and would never be negative on it.
So do not fret. I am not that sort. I will look at your video and will not comment on it. Suffice to say, you taking the courage to post about it is enough for me to see that you are (perhaps) genuine. I commend you (but not your politics, hah hah).
So I am just curious, why do you hate liberals?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
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Sure, like Kenyan or American what's the real difference?
Now, one could take that as a slight against Obama. of course, ATG, you did not mean it that way, did you? if so, you betray yourself and your apparent altruism.
And I could have read that wrong, but then I ask, why did ATG post that?
To be divisive? Or trying to be clever? Or just… ignorance. I mean, he worked with African children in remote villages, perhaps he knows Kenya. I do knot, what a "Goridan knot", a liberal hater that has worked with some sort of Peace Corps or missionary group or something.
It is late, I retire for the evening. As a liberal. And I shall wake up as a liberal, though ATG wants me off the planet. I guess he may hate me. As a liberal.
it has been fun though, better that television.
EDIT
And ATG, just remember as you lay your head on a pillow this night, as you pray to your Almighty, whatever/whomever, that may be, that the liberal scum of this world are banished forever. Sweet dreams.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
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....that are a 180ﾟ off .... To type the 'degree' symbol hold the Alt key down and type 248. 180°.
You've got a lot of anger there ATG. It's interesting that 'liberal' organizations like the ACLU (of which I am a card carrying member) try to protect the Constitutional rights of all citizens, including Nazis, not just the 'liberals'.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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Just one more post and then I am hitting the sack.
I agree, of the many posts, ATG's does come across as very angry towards liberals, the others we know about as they are regulars. ATG comes in and attacks liberals from the start. There is anger there, and hatred, and I recall some poster wrote that 'the hate will hate"or something like that.
Dwain, can you perhaps give me a new photoshop look, as the ones you have posted a number of times are getting quite old. You know my email address, I'll give you new images to work with. Contact me if altering images of me helps with your therapy.
None of us, even you Reilly, are not going to change or alter the the course of America. We are just here to spin our wheels.
One thing I learned being a full-time carer, we are all fragile, most of all, our psyches are. Who among you can deny that?
I have never met superman or superwoman. And never will.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
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ok ATG, i clicked on the link you provided and refreshed my own memory on the genocide in Africa
horrible, but what is your point? You seem to be linking that mass murder to what?
to "liberalism" or maybe the "criminal Clinton family"
how so, make your case clear and specific so we all can understand just what you are trying so hard to say
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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And you blame liberals for that? Your "crowd" has nothing to do with it? At best, naive, at worst, propaganda.
I do not want your respect ATG, and I would guess you do not want mine. But if you did, your double standards would "stand" in the way. you choose to look one way but apparently not the other.
I would think you would know, there are two sides to every story, that life is a two-way street, that there are a number cliches.
So you have experienced, if you are to be believed, blood on the ground in Africa. I have not, but that does not mean I do not understand.
You blame the blood on the ground on liberals. Please do not tell me you are that ignorant or naive.
I may have some troubles in my life, but I try to empathize and understand, to try and be open-minded.
Can you say the same with your hatred of liberals? ATG, whatever your experiences may be, do not dig the hole deeper.
Heavens, if you have indeed been to the blood fields of Rwanda as you claim, you should know better that to disparage any one group. Sure, it is easy in your mind to blame liberals. Easy and simple do not make the truth. You should know that.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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Nice video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f3kao72ZG0
So where are you ATG, at what "minutes and seconds" in the 3+minute vid? You do not have to say, I am just asking.
There are a lot of conservative and liberal and non-secular and secular and everything in between organizations doing such work throughout this world, and they are to be commended. It is not just the conservative religious ones doing it.
Why pounce on liberals? What is your agenda?
There is hypocrisy on every side, surely you must see and understand that. If you cannot see that, I feel sorry for you, but I am sure you do not want my pity. You are righteous. You do not need liberals like me, you wish us off this planet, How Christian. I wonder what Jesus Christ would say if he were here today.
EDIT
I know, it is past my bedtime.
The Red Cross, the Red Crescent, they both do a lot of good work, extremely good work.
Do they blow their horns? Like some religious organizations do?
Cults. Christianity, Islam… what did L. Ron Hubbard say about creating a religion? Money?
I have no time for cults and their self-righteous beliefs that they are the pathway to some god.
And how they are the chosen ones, and how they are the only new to help the poor, invalid and stricken.
While collecting riches all the time. All of them.
My late mother taught me the golden rule. Do unto others as you would etc etc, old hat and cliche. But the right way to go.
Tell the truth as lies will only catch you out (and bite you in the butt).
Basically, be a good person and life will reward you. But do not be pious. You are not pious, are you ATG?
My rule is that I will treat others like I would be treated. Simple, isn't it. I do not need a bible or rocks etched in stone or a koran or a torah to tell me that.
I despise Donald Trump, but I do not hate him. I do not hate religion as such and `i do not wish conservatives off this planet like ATG does liberals, by his own admission.
I saw the hypocrisy, being baptized a Catholic and raised in religion. I do not need that. I want to treat my fellow humans with dignity and hope they return the favor. Naive? yeah, but better than praying to some icon of a god.
So ATG, I am not going to wither away and get f*#ked off the earth, though you seem to want liberals that (your own words/writing). But you can pray for that.
EDIT
I have been going through some of my previous ST posts over the years (since June 2005), sometimes I sure came across as an as#@&%e. Apologies if I offended anybody.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Just one more post and then I am hitting the sack.
This is why the Libs just can't win... they lie all the time.
Benghazi!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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Mighty Hiker! Per your post: Canada's plan to invoke the Monroe Doctrine, invade the USA, and put things there right:
https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-case-for-invading-america/
I admit, after the current Trumpian verbal attacks & this photo of Trump with your Prime Minister Trudeau at the recent Quebec G7 meeting, you folks likely have just cause.
As I have repeatedly been reminded by Canadian friends, wars between the U.S. & Canada have been won 2 – 0 by Canada, although the Canadians were obviously cheating, since the wars were being run by their British rulers.
However! I will be quick to surrender to Canadian forces if I can sign up for their healthcare plan.
Please, please! Don’t use Justin Bieber "music" as a weapon. That would be unfair & likely a war-crime too.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 11, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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Damn near interesting .
Not Fritz.
Are Kim and Donny going to a private room,to, you know, deal......lol
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 11, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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This is why the Libs just can't win... they lie all the time.
Damn Russ, that made me laugh. Thank you. I needed that.
And I am hitting the sack, NOW, no lie.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
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The American regime was bound by law to intervene.
what law was that, AVG? Name, passed into law when, ordering military action?
seriously, we are trying to understand what your point is with your above long post
various things, genocides, mass murders, Kennedy, Clinton, vague words like liberalism, babies, etc
why don't you try again, be specific, make whatever point you are trying to make....
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jun 11, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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its hard to get more scum of the earth than Christian missionary
and there aint nobody going to missing krouthammer
You're judging scum of the Earth?
LoL
You are a Sycophant scum loser of the highest order.
You wake every day and spread your dirty cheeks here.
Get a life. Wipe the scum from your dirty bum
Come out from behind your cowardly keyboard.
Or are you still 'locked-up'
Bet you can't go a week, let alone a day w/o posting here haha...pussy
Dare ya
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Jun 12, 2018 - 02:09am PT
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^^^^ This guy blows goats.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 12, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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STEPHANOPOULOS: You say his people love him. Just a few months ago you accused him of starving his people. And listen, here’s the rub. Kim is a brutal dictator. He runs a police state, forced starvation, labor camps. He’s assassinated members of his own family. How do you trust a killer like that?
TRUMP: George, I’m given what I’m given, okay? I mean, this is what we have, and this is where we are, and I can only tell you from my experience, and I met him, I’ve spoken with him, and I’ve met him. … he wants to do the right thing.
Fuking idiot.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 12, 2018 - 09:30am PT
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The Donald is a master negotiator! He gave Kim what he wanted, but in return got...diddly squat.
Tired of winning yet?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 12, 2018 - 10:28am PT
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It’s breathtaking to see an American president emerge as a spokesman for the dictator of North Korea.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 12, 2018 - 10:30am PT
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so I'd do anything to further the kingdom.
And this is what scares the hell out of normal people. this has been the justification, thoughout history, for the most grotesque torture of people----in the service of Jesus.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jun 12, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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Not to hard to imagine Trump using that excuse too.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 12, 2018 - 10:42am PT
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In January 2017, Trump proclaimed in a tweet: “North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won’t happen!”
But in fact it appears to have happened on Trump’s watch, and nothing in the Singapore summit seems to have changed.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 12, 2018 - 12:26pm PT
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“As an example, they have great beaches,”
Trump told the assembled reporters.
“You see that whenever they are exploding their cannons into the ocean. I said, boy, look at that view, wouldn't that make a great condo? And I explained it. I said, instead of doing that, you could have the best hotels in the world.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 12, 2018 - 12:32pm PT
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Do not question the Orange Sh1t Gibbon's ability to judge character. Wasn't he the only one to give Putin the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.
Truth is the whole think is kabuki theater, a hail mary for the upcoming elections.
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toejahm
Trad climber
Chatsworth, CA
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Jun 12, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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So, an important first step, second step and third step have been taken in denuclearizing the peninsula, bringing the two countries closer together and reducing tensions in the region not to mention reduction in the armed forces and you still have the balls to complain. You know there’s a big fat giant line between leftist ideology and common sense!
Oh ya, so we’re clear, I’m no fan of the current president, but that doesn’t mean I have my head thoroughly shoved up my ars…
p.s. I don't care if I get kicked off this site because there's a good portion of you that fn suck!
p.s.s. this is why the democrats will loose the next election!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 12, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
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tRump got ridden like a $2 mule. Kim’s sh*t eating grin says it all. One of the most brutal, murdering dictators ever legitimized by a US president.
And Kim had to do nothing. Just told tRump “trust me”.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 12, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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p.s.s. this is why the democrats will loose the next election!
You misspelled “lose.”
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toejahm
Trad climber
Chatsworth, CA
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Jun 12, 2018 - 01:32pm PT
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Thanks DB
it's always the easy words that'll get ya.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 12, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
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“Frankly, at this point I would vote for a potted plant over Donald Trump if that potted plant was the nominee,” she said.
Republican Strategist Ana Navarro
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 12, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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John McCain's Campaign Manager Steve Schmidt, on Trump
“The Placement of the US flag next to the flag of North Korea, a murderous slave state, is an absolute desecration of our national colors.”
“Claims of achievements from this summit are nonsensical. Trump got nothing except empty promises. Kim Jong Un achieved global standing for his evil regime and got military exercises cancelled. The sycophantic panting and exultations across the GOP and Trump media are delusional,”
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 12, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
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I’d rather have them talk than not, but I don’t give him credit for easing tensions that he had unnecessarily ratcheted up (e.g., his “bigger button”/“fire and fury” recklessness), nor do I give him credit for stopping war game exercises without getting any firm concessions in return, and especially without consulting our ally, South Korea. A promise to “denuclearize” doesn’t mean sh#t.
Finally, his praise of that murderous dictator Un is disgusting, betrays American values, and feeds into Un’s propaganda machine. And yet, Trudeau gets trump’s wrath. Go figure.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 12, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
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tRump said Kim was a “good man”.
WTF?
I hope congress gets off it’s ass and gets this train wreck under control.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 12, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
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Just after the two leaders met in Singapore, Trump appeared on ABC News where he claimed that Kim’s “country does love him” and North Koreans “have a great fervor.”
Illustrations by Kwon Hyo Jin given to the the UNHRC’s Commission of Inquiry by Kim Kwang-il, a former detainee, depict scenes of torture, starvation and rat infestations within the camps.
"President" Trump - "Kim's country does love him"
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jun 12, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
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Someone with nuclear arms is going to give them up because someone else with nuclear arms wants them to, while keeping theirs. Sounds like a deal that can't be refused.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 12, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
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Tuesday’s agreement included a commitment by Kim to work toward the “complete denuclearization” of the Korean peninsula, but the terms “verifiable” and “irreversible” were conspicuously absent from the document.
It failed to explicitly define the scope of denuclearization, and didn’t outline how North Korea might go about achieving it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 12, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Trump has been utterly owned by Kim from start to finish. Period.
The verbiage "work toward complete denuclearization" in the agreement is a vague promise and very far cry from the "complete, verifiable, and irreversible denuclearization" which has been the explicit basis of our negotiations with North Korea up until yesterday.
This lack of any mention of formal verification in the agreement is highly troubling and casts serious doubt about any real chance of success. As it stands now the summit has delivered little more than a legitimizing photo op for Kim on the international stage.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 12, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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North Korea has no nukes to begin with.
You st00pid people have been owned from the start ......
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 12, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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You must be confident saying that .....lol
I may be owned ,but the average North Korean makes less than 2k a year.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 12, 2018 - 11:33pm PT
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Trump has been utterly owned by Kim from start to finish. Period.
Trump has absolutely dominated the international media cycle for a couple of days.
He got great pageantry, a great photo op, a chance to look presidential, and his base is loving it.
Sounds like winning to me.
So both of them made promises they have absolutely no intention of keeping. What else is new?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 12, 2018 - 11:40pm PT
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What did someone say? Their ITunes agreement is more restrictive than Trumps nuclear sanctions.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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“Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea,”
Fuking idiot.
Fuking liar.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:09am PT
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Trump could cure cancer and you lunatics would criticize him for putting morticians out of work.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:29am PT
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I have a, Trump for President in 2020, bumper sticker
on my truck.
Should I get a bullet and I.E.D. armored truck?
No, you should get a brain, Dwain!
Sorry, just liked the rhyme.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:30am PT
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Could
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:53am PT
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Pretty sure his name is Power Crux, pud.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 10:06am PT
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Faux News got it wrong. It was not a meeting between to dictators, it was a meeting between one dictator and a wannabe.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/13/media/trump-tweet-media/index.html
Yep, a free press is truly the biggest enemy of the state. Only state sanctioned media is to be believed. The war on reality continues unabated.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 13, 2018 - 10:09am PT
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a free press
What's the mythical "free press" I keep hearing about? Is corporate-owned press somehow better than State-owned press? If so, why?
I thought that you guys HATE mega-corps.
Precious little of that "free" stuff around!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 10:13am PT
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Oh, I forgot. tRump says Kim's people really love him. That is the kind of unconditional love tRump is yearning for.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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"Again, who the fuk are you "power crux"?"
says a guy who goes by "pud."
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 13, 2018 - 10:56am PT
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No,the free stuff goes to the 1% and corporations.
You know “Socialism for the rich,rugged individualism for the poor”
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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See word that Cohen has been alerted he's about to be arrested... His window on flipping is about to get slammed on his fingers.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 13, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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Who would Jesus be rooting for? The people of North Korea I think. Where is the moral majority now?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 13, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
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So those of you that are saying Trump got a good deal, were you also in favor of the Iran Nuclear deal negotiated by Obama and other countries?
You know, the one that actually had paper terms signed by all the parties, and specified inspectors on the ground(which actually happened).
Or are you like Trump, more in favor of flashy talk without anything behind it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with him talking to Kim. Trying to bring NK into the world is a good thing. But until there's an actual, detailed agreement that shows evidence of being abided by, this is pretty much all hot air. In direct contrast to the Iran deal.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
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Cmon dude, how can we process what you’re saying without knowing your real name? I need to warp my beliefs with some social emotion, and you’re making it hard for me to do that without knowing your name!
F*#k you partisans! I’m partisan to the nonpartisans. You partisans can all go to hell, while we nonpartisans and our nonpartisan children inherit the earth.
This should go well.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 13, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
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Trump, you doing pretty good but you have to be more emotionally self righteous
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jun 13, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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Excellent post, Stevep.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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Many were desperate and at the end of their chain. The Dynamics of this economy had kicked them the curb and they had come to grips with their meager prospects.
Trump was their last gamble. They rolled the dice and put all of our futures in the hands of a charlatan that had guaranteed them he never loses.
Snake eyes folks...
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Jun 13, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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Considering where we are now, conservatives’ concerns that Obama was building a cult of personality during his campaigns and presidency are unbelievably quaint.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 13, 2018 - 02:53pm PT
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Snake eyes folks...
I'm no Trump fanbois, but I'm baffled when people say this sort of thing.
What evidence do you cite to draw such a sweeping confusion.
For my part, the leveling of the corporate tax code (which most of you clearly have zero understanding of, since you assert the ridiculous claim of "welfare for mega-corps") enables our small company to be tax-level now with the two mega-corps that are our competition. Our tax situation has improved so much that that alone has us ready to hire again. That's literally a new job that didn't exist and wouldn't exist pre-corporate-tax reform.
Our personal tax situation is also better, as it is for the vast majority of Americans.
The economy is doing well, and Trump is NO different from former presidents who believe in kicking the debt-can down the road while adding to it. Obama doubled the national debt in his time, and with Obamacare he also set us up for vast future debt-liabilities. Some of that liability is now being undone (and you scream about that too).
Seems to me that you guys want big-government coupled with an ever-increasing welfare state. You just want the welfare flowing to the people you decide. And you only selectively attack presidents for kicking the debt-can down the road. Obama got a full pass on that point from you guys.
Fine, but the present economy is sure not "snake eyes" for the majority of Americans, and we're hiring again, as are a huge number of other companies. I guess "snake eyes" for all those job-seekers that now have newly available jobs?
And don't try to float the liberal-rag-line about "reduced employment participation." The participation metrics are exactly in line with historical averages, no more and no less, and FAR better than the low in 1954. Or perhaps you imagine that Trump affected participation in 1954, which is why it was so low then. It's sure not low now.
I seriously don't get how you guys can complain about "snake eyes" in this present economy. If it were Hillary in office, you'd be CROWING about how AWESOME she was doing (of course, also while kicking the debt-can down the road, as all presidents now must do).
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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Thank you for that.
I'm the owner of a small S Corp with five employees and usually 10 to 20 subcontractors on my projects at any one time. I've submitted itemized tax returns for over 20 years.
I have quite a bit to say on this topic but the wind is currently down and there's a small swell in the water so I'm going surfing.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 13, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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I hear you.
The economy is good.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 13, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
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ATG wrote "The irony is that liberals are the most intellectually easy people to manipulate. They believe anything and will gleefully kill anybody as long as it's part of their groupthink mob.
They supported creating a refugee crisis in Syria over the same pack of lies that got us involved in Iraq."
That is some funny stuff. Will you be playing here all week?
Sorry but faux facts from trumpyland only fly at lemming rallies.
Anyone who voted for trumpy who is not part of the ~1% is a lemming who voted against their own pocket, feeding into the growing wealth inequity.
Trump is no different than the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Massive tax cuts, during a time of healthy economy, financed by deficit spending will eventually collapse the economy.
Bush and the neocons started Iraq.
Bashar Hafez al-Assad is the dictator destroying Syria.
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Krease
Gym climber
the inferno
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Jun 13, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
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the murdering optometrist is a patriot?
lol, f*#k you trumptard
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 13, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
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Bashar is a patriot
breathtaking, stunning
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
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It’s been disheartening this past year to realize that so many of our fellow citizens truly do not care about democratic/republican ( small d and small r) principles, and will eagerly embrace authoritarians.
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
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"madbolter said
"The economy is doing well, and Trump is NO different from former presidents who believe in kicking the debt-can down the road"
I would have said that what is important is what the debt was used for in the first place. In that respect the difference between Obama and Trump is huge.
I think its pretty spineless to be making these sort of false equivalencies.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
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Splater! I agree with your thoughts on the Republican's tax cut.
And!
MB1! I appreicate the Republican tax cuts have been good for your small corporation & you. You lower yourself by touting their benefits to the rich. Please, let me tell you why you have become a Trumpian shill for the Republican's disasterous tax cut.
From Splatter:
Trump is no different than the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Massive tax cuts, during a time of healthy economy, financed by deficit spending will eventually collapse the economy.
I'm not MB1's poor & needy liberal, but anyone, who is not blinded by greed, can understand that the Republican's passed that tax cut to benefit their donors.
From that noted liberal publication (jest kidding) International Business Times:
Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said that “the financial contributions will stop” if tax reform fails.
New York Rep. Chris Collins told reporters on Tuesday that his donors were “basically saying, ‘Get it done or don't ever call me again.’”
A review of these legislators’ campaign finance records shows which kinds of donors they appear to be scared of irritating. Both Graham and Collins are dependent on donors who can contribute large sums to their campaigns — those who also are likely to gain from the GOP tax cut plan, which heavily favors the wealthy and large corporations — and take in relatively few small contributions.
According to the Federal Elections Commission data analyzed by International Business Times, only 1.4 percent of the money this year from individual donors to Graham — a member of the Senate Budget Committee — came in the form of “small donations,” or contributions of $200 or less. The vast majority (70 percent) came from donations of $2,000 or more.
Among the top corporations that have donated to Graham’s campaigns from 2013 to the present are several that are sponsoring a “Tax Prom” event next week in hopes of the GOP passing a tax reform bill that will drastically cut their corporate tax rates from 35 percent down to 20 percent.
PACs and individuals associated with companies such as Tax Prom sponsors Altria, Boeing, ExxonMobil, and Raytheon have lavished Graham with donations over the past five years. Of Graham’s donor industries, the securities and investment industry ($814,000 since 2013) is second only to lawyers and law firms, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics.
The wealthy will also benefit from income tax cuts; the latest Tax Policy Center analysis of the regressive tax plan concluded that by 2027, those in the top 0.1 percent of Americans in terms of income will see an average tax cut of over $278,000, while those in the bottom 20 percent will get a tax cut of only $10.
The New York Times estimates that nearly half of middle-class families would end up paying more in taxes in 2026 as a result of the plan.
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/behind-tax-cut-records-reveal-donors-republicans-fear-2612982
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
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With a scrap of paper Trump has guaranteed peace in Korea!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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Mad BolterObama doubled the national debt in his time, and with Obamacare he also set us up for vast future debt-liabilities. Some of that liability is now being undone (and you scream about that too).
Obama inherited two wars, the Great Recession and Bush's tax cuts- that predominantly benefited the wealthy.
The fact is, deficit spending started to trend down towards the end of Obama's second term. Some of this was the result of sequestration . I don't think he did enough to decrease deficits or reign in spending. However, Republicans are statistically much worse in terms of deficit spending over the last 35 years.
Anyways, when I mention Snake Eyes I'm referring to the measure of a Man. The despot inherited a strong economy and he's going to f*** it up. The tax breaks that you claim are so wonderful and allowing you to employ one more person will evaporate in the next 3 years and your taxes will actually go up while the wealthiest Americans will reap favorable tax benefits in perpetuity.
I'd be glad to revisit this discussion in two years.Deficits and the national debt are projected to explode with Trumps new tax plan and budget per the CBO.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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Gary! Your photo & post are a little bit of a reach, even for the noted historian Fritz.
But I like the comparison a lot!
Thank you!
From Wikipedia:
Prime Minister Chamberlain's aeroplane landed at the Heston Aerodrome on 30 September 1938, and he spoke to the crowds there:
The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine. Some of you, perhaps, have already heard what it contains but I would just like to read it to you: " ... We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again."[3]
Later that day he stood outside 10 Downing Street and again read from the document and concluded:
My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.[3]
Chamberlain's return was not universally well-received. 15,000 people protested against the Munich agreement the same day in Trafalgar Square, three times more than welcomed him at 10 Downing Street. Due to Chamberlain's ongoing manipulation of the BBC, this news was largely suppressed at the time.[4] Labour spokesman Hugh Dalton publicly suggested that the piece of paper which Chamberlain was waving was "torn from the pages of Mein Kampf." [5] Disbelieving Chamberlain, Isaac Asimov published in July 1939 "Trends", which mentions a World War in 1940; he later wrote "I was too conservative".[6]
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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Yeah, yeah, I'm hearing the predictable arguments, summed up by the perpetual, "Obama didn't do it; he inherited it. It's ALL the Republicans' fault."
Obama inherited two wars, the Great Recession and Bush's tax cuts- that predominantly benefited the wealthy.
Do you even want to get started on all of Obama's campaign promises, particularly regarding wars and the military, that he didn't even start to fulfill? And he had a party-line Congress, for his first two years. Oh, yes, he didn't QUITE have a filibuster-proof Senate (a few votes shy), but you're gonna tell me that he couldn't get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan within two years?
He promised to end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet here we are. HE was the commander in chief, yet he kept signing new funding legislation from HIS Congress for two years, and then kept signing new funding legislation sent to his desk by a Republican Congress.
He promised to NEVER raise taxes on the middle class, yet Obamacare passed muster with the SCOTUS when his lawyers CHANGED their tune and started calling it a "tax," which was by his own admission a massive new TAX on the middle class. And don't even get me started on the fact that his strategists were laughing about how stupid the American public is, while they handed us to the INSURANCE COMPANIES on a silver platter.
As I said, you want welfare for the poor, but you don't want job-CREATING tax breaks for companies that do create jobs that could thereby help fewer people BE poor. What you guys don't get about Trump's corporate tax plan is that it LEVELED the playing field.
If you look at what the corporate tax rates were prior to this year, you'll quickly see HOW protectionistic they were to mega-corps. Mega-corps have NEVER been paying over 20%, while the VAST majority of small to medium sized businesses trying to compete with these mega-corps were hit with tax rates of 34% to 39%. The plain tax rates don't even start to tell the whole story, either. Mega-corps enjoyed deductions not available to small to medium size businesses, such as a "reinvestment" deduction that could shield up to 20% of REVENUE from being counted as "revenue" when it was simply not paid out in dividends (profits) but instead "reinvested" (where "reinvestment" could count as salaries, etc.).
You can't compete heads-up with a mega-corp when you're paying TWICE the tax rate that they are! Just look at where the highest rates hit. And that was the point to these scaled tax rates: Protectionism. Keeping the small to medium sized businesses from ever getting over the outrageous tax threshold to becoming "large."
So, the new corporate tax code gave nothing new to mega-corps. They ALREADY paid the lower rate and enjoyed other benefits not available to small to medium sized business. What the new code did was put such tax rates into the hands of the job-creating level of companies, small to medium sized businesses, by enabling them to pay the same rate as mega-corps. This was no "tax break for mega-corps," as is to IGNORANTLY trumpeted. This was a tax break for small to medium size companies that ARE the job creators in this nation.
So, yeah, I would definitely prefer to kick the debt can down the road if it creates jobs, improves the GDP, and thereby helps to ultimately keep the debt within range of GDP. That's not just giving money away. That's investing in future GDP.
And even the way we're talking about it reveals how twisted the dialog has become. "The government" HAS nothing to give away. The only money it can "give" is money it TAKES.
YOU equate TAKEN money with "money the government has to give away," as if "the government" and the people it gives money to are entitled to it!
By stark contrast, a tax reduction on job-creating companies (who are, in fact, already creating new jobs as a result, as both the stats and I personally attest!), is "the government" not TAKING as much. If there's less to give away, so be it! NOBODY is entitled to free money. We've all "just accepted it" because supposedly "nobody should suffer" in this "great nation." But in THIS nation, nobody is really suffering. Sorry to burst your bubble, but even the "poor" in this nation have it amazingly, astoundingly good!
I won't abide conflating GIVING less with TAKING less, as though they are talking about the same sort of thing. Obama TOOK MORE and gave more. Period. If Trump TAKES less, more power to him. It falls to Congress to cut spending, giving less, and they had better!
I'm with you guys insofar as the cuts should begin with the military. But government should TAKE less, SPEND less, and GIVE AWAY far less (to individuals and to corporations).
Meanwhile, I seriously doubt that the person we hire next is going to curse Trump's tax plan that made that job possible.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:30pm PT
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A couple of points of interest relating to some of the above commnets
1) Sub "S" corporations do not pay income tax, virtually all income net of expenses is dispersed to the shareholders by the end of the year as mostly ordinary taxable income
therefore, the Republican tax cuts do not really effect S corporations, of which I have been involved with seven in the past 35 years, it is the "C" corps that have had their Federal tax rates reduced from 35 to 21%
because C corps are, mostly, large to very large corporations it is they who are truly benefitting from the tax cuts, and make no mistake, study and study is showing that those donor pay back wonderful, fast, tax cuts are resulting in using that money to buy more shares of their own corporations back and NOT resulting, by and large, in rank and file employees getting significant raises in income, or in any mass increase in hiring new employees- anyone who understands basic economics knows it is demand in the marketplace that drives new hires
but don't take my work, google search on Trump tax cuts share buybacks
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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And he had a party-line Congress, for his first two years.
I am not going to bother correcting all the factual errors (lies) in Madbolter's above post
I will just quickly point out that President Obama never, ever, in his entire 8 years had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress sufficient to overcome Republican filibusters, and in fact it was only in a 28 day period that the two Independent Senators joined the Democrats to overcome the Republicans to pass the ACA and the Lilly Fair Pay Act, and that was only with bringing in a dying Ted Kennedy in a wheelchair onto the Senate floor for the deciding votes
but carry on, never bothering to get the truth, the facts correct prior to opining
that would require too much intellectual credibility and look it up yourself curiosity
good night all
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
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MB1! I do regret your not refuting my post on the Republican tax cuts for the rich.
I'll give you another chance:
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
Splater! I agree with your thoughts on the Republican's tax cut.
And!
MB1! I appreciate the Republican tax cuts have been good for your small corporation & you. You lower yourself by touting their benefits to the rich. Please, let me tell you why you have become a Trumpian shill for the Republican's disasterous tax cut.
From Splatter:
Trump is no different than the Bush tax cuts for the rich. **Massive tax cuts, during a time of healthy economy, financed by deficit spending will eventually collapse the economy.
**
I'm not MB1's concept of a poor & needy liberal, but anyone, who is not blinded by greed, can understand that the Republican's passed their tax cut to benefit their donors.
From that noted liberal publication (jest kidding) International Business Times:
Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said that “the financial contributions will stop” if tax reform fails.
New York Rep. Chris Collins told reporters on Tuesday that his donors were “basically saying, ‘Get it done or don't ever call me again.’”
A review of these legislators’ campaign finance records shows which kinds of donors they appear to be scared of irritating. Both Graham and Collins are dependent on donors who can contribute large sums to their campaigns — **those who also are likely to gain from the GOP tax cut plan, which heavily favors the wealthy and large corporations — and take in relatively few small contributions.
** According to the Federal Elections Commission data analyzed by International Business Times, only 1.4 percent of the money this year from individual donors to Graham — a member of the Senate Budget Committee — came in the form of “small donations,” or contributions of $200 or less. The vast majority (70 percent) came from donations of $2,000 or more.
Among the top corporations that have donated to Graham’s campaigns from 2013 to the present are several that are sponsoring a “Tax Prom” event next week in hopes of the GOP passing a tax reform bill that will drastically cut their corporate tax rates from 35 percent down to 20 percent.
PACs and individuals associated with companies such as Tax Prom sponsors Altria, Boeing, ExxonMobil, and Raytheon have lavished Graham with donations over the past five years. Of Graham’s donor industries, the securities and investment industry ($814,000 since 2013) is second only to lawyers and law firms, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics.
**The wealthy will also benefit from income tax cuts; the latest Tax Policy Center analysis of the regressive tax plan concluded that by 2027, those in the top 0.1 percent of Americans in terms of income will see an average tax cut of over $278,000, while those in the bottom 20 percent will get a tax cut of only $10.
The New York Times estimates that nearly half of middle-class families would end up paying more in taxes in 2026 as a result of the plan.
** http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/behind-tax-cut-records-reveal-donors-republicans-fear-2612982
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:02pm PT
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Meanwhile, I seriously doubt that the person we hire next is going to curse Trump's tax plan that made that job possible. Ironic thing, me being a liberal- I don't need the governments help to be a jobs creator.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
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Via Fox News
Pennsylvania driver allegedly defecates on another man in road rage incident
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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There is no lower limit to Trump's childish behavior.
Trump destroys presidential documents on a regular basis, and his White House staff has to tape the shredded papers back together to comply with Federal records keeping laws. Like a spoiled child in control of his nannies, Trump refuses to abide by the rules, and forces others to compensate for his misbehavior.
The White House staffers who reassemble and repair Trump's torn-up documents earn roughly $65,000 per year, paid by taxpayers.
http://time.com/5308542/trump-presidential-records-nixon/
Michael Cohen's legal team has abandoned him, which probably indicates that they have no reasonable hope of defending him. Cohen, facing a long prison sentence, will probably show Trump the same degree of loyalty that Trump is showing him: NONE.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-attorneys-expected-to-quit-his-case-1528903379
https://www.politicususa.com/2018/06/13/cohen-flips-and-will-cooperate-with-mueller-after-lawyers-quit.html
Here is a valid and relevant question that Trump and his lawyers should be pondering:
If Trump is indicted and convicted for crimes, what sort of Secret Service protection would he receive while in prison?
Trump's alleged power to pardon himself is illusory. If a sitting president had that sort of power, Nixon and Clinton would have both wielded it. Similarly, Trump's professed immunity from subpoenas and indictments would have been used by Nixon and Clinton if such powers actually existed. Nixon and Clinton were both successfully subpoenaed by investigators, although Clinton agreed to voluntarily testify if the subpoena was withdrawn as a formality. Nixon fought the law, and the law won. Watergate prosecutor Leon Jaworski obtained the Oval Office tapes, and they became the centerpiece of the fall of Nixon.
Trump might be prosecuted at the State level, which would cleanly bypass Trump's delusional and imaginary claims of legal invincibility at the Federal level. Mike Pence would not have any power to pardon Trump for crimes committed at the State level.
Going down fast and hard, crying all the way.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 14, 2018 - 08:24am PT
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therefore, the Republican tax cuts do not really effect S corporations, of which I have been involved with seven in the past 35 years, it is the "C" corps that have had their Federal tax rates reduced from 35 to 21%
As usual, you are missing the point. There are MANY benefits to being a C-corp, yet the tax schedule was explicitly designed TO keep smaller companies from becoming C-corps and enjoying those benefits, such as the "reinvestment" benefit.
The change in tax law has made C-corp accessible to small companies for the first time, and MANY of us are taking advantage of that.
The new tax code DOES level the tax code for the first time, and it DOES make C-corp accessible to the "little guy" for the first time.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 14, 2018 - 08:31am PT
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I am not going to bother correcting all the factual errors (lies) in Madbolter's above post
You've got nothing to correct.
I explicitly stated that for two years Obama had a not-quite filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and that is FACT. 57 Senators is a majority that no Republican President has enjoyed in (most of) our lifetimes.
I will just quickly point out that President Obama never, ever, in his entire 8 years had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress sufficient to overcome Republican filibusters
Wait. That's what I said. I thought that you were "correcting" me!
For his first two years, Obama had a huge House majority and the largest Senate majority in (most of) our lifetimes.
But you guys moan and snivel that "it was the Republicans" just because poor, poor Obama didn't have a filibuster-proof Senate.
It's mighty hard to have sympathy for the huge majorities he DID have!
but carry on, never bothering to get the truth, the facts correct prior to opining
that would require too much intellectual credibility and look it up yourself curiosity
It is literally amazing to me that some libs here are SO blind that they are emotionally compelled to "correct" somebody that doesn't agree with them--even when that "correction" is LITERALLY saying exactly the same thing they are "correcting."
Look to your echo-chamber mind, Norton. Something in those deep, dark processes itself needs some serious correction.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 14, 2018 - 08:40am PT
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but anyone, who is not blinded by greed, can understand that the Republican's passed their tax cut to benefit their donors.
Well, since you're going to descend to loaded, pejorative language like "greed," I'll play along.
Anybody not motivated by a twisted Robin Hood complex can understand that BOTH parties (including the one that corporate shill, Hillary represented) are in bed with mega-corps and wealthy donors.
If you think that the Democrats have the interests of the little guy in mind, well, you have really drunk the Kool-Aid. And the old economic saw really hums in this context: Steal from Peter to pay Paul, and you'll always have the support of Paul.
The Democrat party is determined to create a nation of Pauls, and you Robin Hoods think that they have the high moral ground to do so.
Meanwhile, BOTH parties cater to mega-corps and the MIC.
I say, end ALL the theft! NO more subsidies to mega-corps, the MIC (cut the military in half), OR to the "poor" in this nation.
But noooo. You guys are determined to keep STEALING and playing Robin Hood, and you justify it by calling the middle class "blinded by greed." It's really outrageous. We're just trying to get by! Meanwhile, I watch people in Walmart paying for their (junk) food with WIC and then whipping out a credit card to buy a $1,000 Samsung TV.
That's not an "isolated abuse." That's the REALITY of the "poor" in this nation. You are determined to have a nation of Pauls.
You've got the "greed" label attached to entirely the wrong people. And you just want to be in control of the stealing, not actually end it.
Which is why the partisan cluster-fornication will continue.
I'm out. Got better things to do for awhile.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:38am PT
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NY Attorney Sues Trump, Family And Foundation For Charity Self-Dealing
The lawsuit also accuses defendants of making expenditures to influence the outcome of an election Attorney general accuses defendants of self-dealing, wasting charitable assets, or violating US Tax law. It seeks restitution of $2.8 million, penalties against the president, a ban on donald trump serving as an officer of a charity, and a declaration that the foundation conducted business in a 'persistently illegal manner' Lawsuit filed in the new york state supreme court in Ma
“As our investigation reveals, the Trump Foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments from Mr. Trump or his businesses to nonprofits, regardless of their purpose or legality,” said Attorney General Underwood. “This is not how private foundations should function and my office intends to hold the Foundation and its directors accountable for its misuse of charitable assets.”
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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Everyday norton??
Don't you have a better way to start your day?
Have fun today. Do something you enjoy. Find peace.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 14, 2018 - 10:06am PT
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The wealthy will also benefit from income tax cuts; the latest Tax Policy Center analysis of the regressive tax plan concluded that by 2027, those in the top 0.1 percent of Americans in terms of income will see an average tax cut of over $278,000, while those in the bottom 20 percent will get a tax cut of only $10.
The New York Times estimates that nearly half of middle-class families would end up paying more in taxes in 2026 as a result of the plan.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 14, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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As I said, you want welfare for the poor, but you don't want job-CREATING tax breaks for companies that do create jobs that could thereby help fewer people BE poor. What you guys don't get about Trump's corporate tax plan is that it LEVELED the playing field.
While I agree with quite a bit of your post, MB1, this I can't go along with. In my lifetime, IIRC, tax cuts have always led to recession.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 14, 2018 - 11:35am PT
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Mb1! Per your less than satisfactory reply to my post, where you start slapping your imaginary Liberal opponents again:
I did say this:
but anyone, who is not blinded by greed, can understand that the Republican's passed their tax cut to benefit their donors.
And I then proved my point, with quotes from two top Republican congressmen & some statistics from the International Business Times.
I also quoted these statements & gave the source:
The wealthy will also benefit from income tax cuts; the latest Tax Policy Center analysis of the regressive tax plan concluded that by 2027, those in the top 0.1 percent of Americans in terms of income will see an average tax cut of over $278,000, while those in the bottom 20 percent will get a tax cut of only $10.
The New York Times estimates that nearly half of middle-class families would end up paying more in taxes in 2026 as a result of the plan.
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/behind-tax-cut-records-reveal-donors-republicans-fear-2612982
And you reply with yet another schist attack on Liberals. I thought you were better than that, but I'll think again.
I thought Republicans believe Greed is good? Why hang another 1.73 Trillion dollars ($5,674.00 per person) of debt on America with that self-serving tax bill otherwise? No Democrats voted for that tax handout for the rich & corporations.
MB1 responded!
Well, since you're going to descend to loaded, pejorative language like "greed," I'll play along.
Anybody not motivated by a twisted Robin Hood complex can understand that BOTH parties (including the one that corporate shill, Hillary represented) are in bed with mega-corps and wealthy donors.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 14, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
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Fuking idiot.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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For anyone who still believes the Mueller investigation is a "baseless witch hunt", the New York Attorney General's lawsuit today comes after a 20-month investigation. The investigation into the Trump family's sham charity was conducted quietly, without releasing information to the public. Trump never claimed it was a partisan witch hunt because it was off his radar. Trump will now pound the table, and shriek that it's a witch hunt.
Trump has no legal precedent for claiming immunity from the New York civil lawsuit. In fact, the Supreme Court ruled that Bill Clinton had no such immunity in a civil case arising from his pre-presidential actions. Trump's fraudulent charity operated for about a decade, well before he became president.
How do you like Trump?
Well done.
Trump's lawyers may claim that the lawsuit is so complex and time-consuming, that the President should be excused from it, in the interest of being able to do his job. In effect, that would mean that the bigger your crime, the more relief from prosecution you deserve. Another way to put it is that Trump's lawyers will probably argue that he is too big to fail.
Trumpty-Dumpty called for a wall.
Trumpty-Dumpty had a great fall.
All of his lieyers and all of his lies
Couldn't make Trumpty immunized.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Will the IRS release Trump's tax returns to prosecutors? Will they make them public, as part of their public prosecution for tax fraud? His Three Stooges children have also been named in the complaint. If Ivanka and Jared filed joint returns, his financial details will become public, too.
Very soon, Trump will be on Twitter and TV, writhing and churning like a lunatic in a straitjacket.
He will be bewailing and bemoaning about how unfair it is, for his children to be dragged into the Witch Hunt. The same argument, applied to John Gotti Jr. and Bill Bonnano, would not stand for a second. Why should Trump's criminal children be given a pass, when the sons of mafia mob bosses were not?
And don't forget Trump's famous "Red Line" for Mueller to not cross: investigating his personal finances.
Trump will suffer a synapse collapse on a grand scale. His mind will lock up, and his words and actions will be controlled by low-level neurons in the brain stem.
Synapse Collapse = climbing related
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 14, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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so Jeff "Keebler Elf" Sessions is quoting scriptures to justify breaking families up
Romans 13 New International Version (NIV)
Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Will be interesting to see how Trump and family follow this wisdom
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 14, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
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FYI- Cannabis helps with nausea
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 14, 2018 - 02:36pm PT
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I'm all for supporting one another in a family but are those two men (? aliens - probably illegal) even from Earth
The woman is actually kind of cute. Could she be a transmogrified witch?
Now Mueller will have folks he can have informed conversations with re: The Big D and his tax returns which he has had to keep hush hush about for all this time.
Has the "odd it" just started or is it now all over but the whining?
The Justice Department's internal watchdog found that former FBI Director James Comey's actions in the Hillary Clinton email investigation were "extraordinary and insubordinate" and flouted the department's norms but that Comey was not motivated by political bias.
The symptoms of amphetamine psychosis include auditory and visual hallucinations, grandiosity, delusions of persecution, and delusions of reference concurrent with both clear consciousness and prominent extreme agitation.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jun 14, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Dirtbag: Sort of like Franklin Roosevelt shaking hands with one of Francisco Franco's generals during the Spanish Civil War? Rather unlikely during the New Deal, don't you think? Just think how far the present administration has moved away from the Four Freedoms. It's like the Fascists destroyed the Allies, won WWII, and took over the USA.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 14, 2018 - 04:44pm PT
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our US President salutes a North Korean military guy
can you imagine how F ing enraged the political right would be if Obama had done that?
why that would be "appeasement" or an "apology tour", so "unAmerican"
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 14, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
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Norton: Per NBC "fake" news tonight, the North Korean "true" news is really enjoying that Trumpian salute.
I think there are two good chances that Trump will get North Korea to hand over their Nuclear program.
Slim & None.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 14, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
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Obama got crucified if he wore his lapel pin flag crooked.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 14, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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madhatter wrote: ..."that BOTH parties (including the one that corporate shill, Hillary represented) are in bed with mega-corps and wealthy donors."
Sorry mr mad,
but one party is MANY times as crooked.
One party has done tax cuts for the rich numerous times. ( bush jr + trumpkins)
One party is cutting the CFPB.
One party is eliminating net neutrality.
One party supports citizens united (legal bribing of politicians).
One party confessed that it "owed its donors a tax cut" 2017 quote.
One party loves monopolistic corporate mergers.
One party does not believe in representative democracy.
One party has a leader who is a lifelong shyster con man mafia crook.
The other party: In 2013, Obama allowed previous tax cuts for the wealthy to expire. In doing so, he allowed the top income tax rate to rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. Taxes on dividends and capital gains also rose from 15% to 20% on the rich. And a tax on investment income, included in the Affordable Care Act, took effect that year. Americans earning less than $250,000 were unaffected.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 14, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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Waiting for the wall of text to defend his selfishness,seeing how greed is now a perjorative.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 14, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
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Splatter, I agree with your post 99% except the part about the Bush tax cuts.
Good post!
I believe Obama actually extended them for two reasons. One was that the economy was on life support and Obama was worried about negating the stimulus with new taxes.
Second- I'm convinced he horse traded extension of the Bush tax cuts for the Republicans letting Obamacare out of committee to a full vote.
Susan Collins shifted her vote.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
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I perhaps offended MB1, by asserting that the Republican Tax Cut was done for the benefit of their rich & corporate donors, & for the benefit of the greedy.
I’ve always thought of MB1 as an Ayn Rand character similar to Howard Roark, although quite a bit longer on prose, & shorter on integrity.
Here’s a bit of a longish Atlantic Magazine article, that traces the popularization of greed to the 1700’s, but gives credit to author Ayn Rand for the current popularity of greed among conservatives.
Accordingly, in recent decades, a new line of argument has opened in the moral defense of greed, a change that was augured and embodied above all others by Ayn Rand. Rand understood that, when someone defended greed by an appeal to the common good, he was also conceding that greed could be checked by it. As the moral foundation for free markets, such an argument was entirely unacceptable to Rand, who took aim at it in her 1965 essay What is Capitalism?
“Implicitly, uncritically, and by default, political economy accepted as its axioms the fundamental tenets of collectivism,” she declared in a sweeping indictment of the Invisible Hand tradition. “The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim that it represents the best way to achieve ‘the common good.’” That may be so, but it is “merely a secondary consequence.” Instead, capitalism is the only economic system in which “the exceptional men” are not “held down by the majority” and in which (as she said elsewhere) the “only good” that humans can do to one another and “the only statement of their proper relationship” are both acknowledged: “Hands off!”
A woman who titled a collection of essays The Virtue of Selfishness, Rand was given to brackish candor. Yet at a time when many people think that the common good is more often imperiled than empowered by unbridled greed, she provides an alternative defense of the acquisitive instinct by appealing to an ethics of gross achievement and a formulation of personal liberty that looks with suspicion and disdain on any talk of civic duty, moral obligation, or even prudential restraint. Her aim was simple: To relieve greed, once and for all, of any moral taint.
“I think greed is healthy,” an apparent acolyte told the graduating class at Berkeley’s business school in 1986. “You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself.” The speaker was Ivan Boesky, who shortly thereafter would be fined $100 million, and later go to prison, for insider trading. His address was adapted by Oliver Stone as the basis for Gordon Gekko’s “greed is good” speech in Wall Street. An exhortation to shareholders of a sagging company, it reads like a corporate raider’s war cry, with Gekko the grinning avatar of Agency Theory.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/greed-is-good-a-300-year-history-of-a-dangerous-idea/360265/
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
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Chairman Kim Jong-Un, in the photo above, looks like he's suddenly thinking that Trump will take command of his army, and depose him with wild dogs and an anti-aircraft gun.
Trump is a buffoon, and probably got nothing from his meeting with Kim Jong-Un, but at least he went there, shook hands, talked to him, and showed him his iPad and his favorite MTV video.
It was a start.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 14, 2018 - 11:29pm PT
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these links say that
1) In Dec 2010 Obama temporarily extended the Bush tax cuts for 2 more years - 2011 and 2012.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-signs-bill-to-extend-bush-tax-cuts/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts
2) Jan 2013 Obama mostly ends the Bush tax cuts for the rich, keeping some for the less wealthy.
For individuals with taxable income of $400,000 per year or less ($450,000 for a married couple on a joint tax return, both thresholds to be indexed for inflation after 2013), the tax rates for income, capital gains, and dividends remained at their 2012 levels, instead of reverting to the higher rates from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.
For individuals with taxable income over the $400,000/$450,000 thresholds:
The top marginal tax rate on income of 39.6%, provided for under the expiration of the 2001 portion of the Bush tax cuts, was retained. This was an increase from the 2003–2012 rate of 35%.
The top marginal tax rate on long-term capital gains of 20%, provided for under the expiration of the 2003 portion of the Bush tax cuts, was retained. This was an increase from the 2003–2012 rate of 15%.
The top marginal tax rate on dividends, which would have increased to the ordinary income rate of 39.6% due to the expiration of the 2003 portion of the Bush tax cuts, was set to the capital-gains rate of 20%. This was an increase from the 2003–2012 rate of 15%.
A phase-out of tax deductions and credits for incomes over $250,000 for individuals and $300,000 for couples was reinstated. These limits on deductions had existed before the Bush tax cuts, and had disappeared in 2010.
Estate taxes were set at 40% of the value above $5,000,000, indexed for inflation, an increase from the 2012 rate of 35% of the value over $5,120,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Taxpayer_Relief_Act_of_2012
3) Also effective starting Jan 2103 were 2 new taxes on the wealthy to support the ACA:
--- An incremental 0.9% Medicare tax on wages above $250,000 (married filing joint) and $200,000 (single).
--- "unearned income" tax. Married couples filing jointly with modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) above $250,000 are subject to this new tax. For single individuals this tax kicks in for MAGI above $200,000. A married couple will pay the lower of 3.8% of:
a) excess MAGI above $250k or b) unearned income.
https://www.thestreet.com/story/11709964/1/2-obamacare-taxes-hitting-high-income-earners.html
splater means "splat later" which is nearly the opposite of splatter
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jun 14, 2018 - 11:42pm PT
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Power Bottom and Wade Icey are the new hawt couple.
The stench is palpable.
Power on!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 02:25am PT
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Kim and Trump appear to share an interest in excretory fetishism.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jun 15, 2018 - 05:41am PT
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“So the big fat dummy insults Canada’s Prime Minister and Canadians, and says it’s an “honour” to meet the murderous dictator?”
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 15, 2018 - 05:59am PT
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Trump sickens me so much, I'm tempted to launch hyperbolic falsehoods about about him. I mean the kind of falsehoods that are so vile no one could support him. Maybe you could help me with some ideas. I'm thinking I will start with "he has sex with pornstars" and "has babies ripped from the arms of their mothers".
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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Say what you want about The Donald, he's a very smart and stable guy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/the-disastrous-legal-implications-of-the-trump-foundations-activities/562895/
There was nothing subtle about any of this. The campaign took full credit for the veterans fundraising program even after the Iowa caucuses. The candidate understood, as did the press, that this entire Iowa fundraising enterprise, which Trump launched in place of his participation at a campaign debate, was a campaign project. And Trump accounted for it in just those terms. The campaign at one point posted on its website a chart identifying the recipient of the charitable grants and “uploaded a news report under the headline, Lewandowski: Trump Campaign Gave between $5.5–$6 Million to Veterans Groups.”
Campaign-finance laws prohibit corporate contributions and expenditures, other than truly independent expenditures made without candidate involvement, to influence a federal election. The facts of the Iowa veterans fundraising program leave no doubt about this purpose. It's hard to imagine more of a slam-dunk violation.
Most ominous for Trump is the attorney general’s conclusion that "Mr. Trump’s wrongful use of the Foundation to benefit his Campaign was willful and knowing.” It is ironic, and highly damaging to Trump, that he made an issue in his campaign about the federal prohibition on tax-exempt involvement in campaigns. He committed that he would act, if elected, to repeal it. It appears that he and his campaign neglected to await repeal and simply declined to comply with it. In any event, his stated awareness of the law, together with his repeated execution of tax forms for the Foundation “in which he attested that the Foundation … did not carry out political activity,” puts him at severe risk of “willful and knowing” liability. As “foundation managers” under the law, Trump and his children are exposed to personal liability if they gave knowing and willful consent to the charity’s illegal expenditures. They could face similar consequences—that is, personal liability—in the event, however unlikely, that the FEC takes meaningful enforcement action.
There is no mention in the complaint about the involvement of any lawyer in any phase of this venture. It's not surprising: No counsel would have advised the Trump campaign and the charity that these Iowa fundraising events and the rallies were lawful. What emerges from the New York complaint’s account is something that has become increasingly familiar. Trump does what he wishes, acting all too often on impulse and without regard to rules or norms, and those around him are expected to do as he says. The result in this instance was, from a legal perspective, disastrous. And that is putting the matter charitably.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-attorney-general.html
The New York State attorney general’s office filed a scathingly worded lawsuit on Thursday taking aim at the Donald J. Trump Foundation, accusing the charity and the Trump family of sweeping violations of campaign finance laws, self-dealing and illegal coordination with the presidential campaign.
The lawsuit, which seeks to dissolve the foundation and bar President Trump and three of his children from serving on nonprofit organizations, was an extraordinary rebuke of a sitting president. The attorney general also sent referral letters to the Internal Revenue Service and the Federal Election Commission for possible further action, adding to Mr. Trump’s extensive legal challenges.
The lawsuit, filed in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, culminated a nearly two-year investigation of Mr. Trump’s charity, which became a subject of scrutiny during and after the 2016 presidential campaign. While such foundations are supposed to be devoted to charitable activities, the petition asserts that Mr. Trump’s was often improperly used to settle legal claims against his various businesses, even spending $10,000 on a portrait of Mr. Trump that was hung at one of his golf clubs...
In 2012, a man named Martin B. Greenberg sued the Trump National Golf Club after he made a hole in one at a fund-raising golf tournament that had promised to pay $1 million to golfers who aced the 13th hole, as he did. As part of a settlement, the charitable foundation paid $158,000 to a foundation run by Mr. Greenberg.
Trump is a class act all the way through.
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-stiffed-winner-1m-hole-one-contest-report-says
A hole-in-one from 2010 could turn into a headache for Donald Trump in 2016.
According to The Washington Post’s David Fahrenthold, the Republican presidential nominee refused to pay the winner of a hole-in-one contest at a charity golf tournament held at one of his courses and later used money from his charitable foundation to settle the resulting lawsuit, actions that might have violated laws against "self-dealing."
In August of 2010, Martin Greenberg, CEO of Sterling Commodities Corp., hit a hole-in-one on the 13th hole at Trump National Golf Club in Westchester County, N.Y., winning a $1 million prize. Or so he thought.
The contest's rules stipulated that the shot had to travel at least 150 yards, and according to The Post, tournament organizers had set up the tee short of the mark.
Greenberg sued, and when the parties settled, the Trump Foundation donated $158,000 to the Martin Greenberg Foundation, which Rosemary Fei, an expert in nonprofit law, says is illegal.
"Yes, Trump pledged as part of the settlement to make a payment to a charity, and yes, the foundation is writing a check to a charity," Fei told The Post. "But the obligation was Trump's. And you can't have a charitable foundation paying off Trump's personal obligations. That would be classic self-dealing."
When reached for comment, Jason Miller, a senior spokesperson for the Trump campaign, issued a statement to GOLF.com denying The Post's allegations and attacking the paper, its reporter and Hillary Clinton.
"In typical Washington Post fashion, they’ve gotten their facts wrong," Miller said. "There was not, and could not be, any intent or motive for the Trump Foundation to make improper payments. All contributions are reported to the IRS, and all Foundation donations are publicly disclosed … The Post's reporting is peppered with inaccuracies and omissions from a biased reporter who is clearly intent on distracting attention away from the corrupt Clinton Foundation, a vehicle for the Clintons to peddle influence at the expense of the American people."
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 10:47am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Even Trump's "charitable" work comprises grift, chicanery, theft and fraud.
Trump is such a reprehensible sociopath, he mixes a gentleman's game of honor with a charitable fund-raising event to set the stage for a carnival conman's game that is unwinnable.
Notice that the Trump spokesman "Jason Miller" is a new incarnation of "John Miller" and "John Baron". Even Trump's defenders are embarrassed to be associated with him.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 15, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Everyday norton??
Don't you have a better way to start your day?
Ha ha, oh now buttercup, I am just getting warmed up!
the 4th grader you put in the WH has 2 1/2 more years to go, deal with it
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 11:59am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Trump's fictitious press agent character is now being performed by one of his flunkies.
Andy Kaufman's "Tony Clifton" character was often performed by his friend Bob Zmuda, including when Kaufman was in the audience.
We should watch very closely for a non-speaking, slightly different-looking Trump. It will be an impersonator that Trump has hired. Dictators often use body-doubles in public.
Trump will probably try to use a body-double to serve his prison time. Trump doesn't know the IRS, but he will go down fast and hard, crying all the way
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/business/trump-foundation-irs-attorney-general.html
In 2007, Vincent Fumo, then a powerful Democratic state senator in Pennsylvania, was indicted by the Justice Department for misusing a charity run by a former member of his government staff. A federal jury convicted him. Mr. Fumo’s punishment: four years in prison.
Ms. Underwood’s petition noted that Mr. Trump signed the foundation’s tax returns, in which he stated, under penalties of perjury, “that the foundation did not engage in transactions with interested parties, and that the foundation did not carry out political activity.”
Marcus Owens, who ran the I.R.S. division that oversees nonprofits during the administrations of Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton, said there have been several cases where people were criminally prosecuted for filing false tax returns of charities they controlled. The difference in Mr. Trump’s case, he said, is that those cases were “less egregious."
Indifference to the law is no excuse.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 15, 2018 - 05:56pm PT
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Here's a CNN list of all the times North Korea agreed to suspend or reduce their nuclear weapons & missle program.
In hindsight, it appears they never suspended or reduced it at all.
But!
Trump's got it done on his first try! What a guy!
1985
North Korea signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
1993
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) demands that inspectors be given access to two nuclear waste storage sites. In response, North Korea threatens to quit the NPT but eventually opts to continue participating in the treaty.
1994
North Korea and the United States sign an agreement. North Korea pledges to freeze and eventually dismantle its old, graphite-moderated nuclear reactors in exchange for international aid to build two new light-water nuclear reactors.
2005
North Korea tentatively agrees to give up its entire nuclear program, including weapons. In exchange, the United States, China, Japan, Russia and South Korea say they will provide energy assistance to North Korea, as well as promote economic cooperation.
2006
July - After North Korea test fires long range missiles, the UN Security Council passes a resolution demanding that North Korea suspend the program.
October - North Korea claims to have successfully tested its first nuclear weapon. The test prompts the UN Security Council to impose a broad array of sanctions.
2007
February 13 - North Korea agrees to close its main nuclear reactor in exchange for an aid package worth $400 million.
September 30 - At six-party talks in Beijing, North Korea signs an agreement stating it will begin disabling its nuclear weapons facilities.
December 31 - North Korea misses the deadline to disable its weapons facilities.
2008
June 27 - North Korea destroys a water cooling tower at the Yongbyon nuclear facility.
December - Six-party talks are held in Beijing. The talks break down over North Korea's refusal to allow international inspectors unfettered access to suspected nuclear sites.
2011
October 24-25 - US officials meet with a North Korean delegation in Geneva, Switzerland, in an effort to restart the six-party nuclear arms talks that broke down in 2008.
2012
February 29 - The State Department announces that North Korea has agreed to a moratorium on long-range missile launches and nuclear activity at the nation's major nuclear facility in exchange for food aid.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html
By the way, if you still believe Trump is going to get North Korea to give us their nuclear weapons, I have some prime grazing land in Idaho, you might well be interested in.
Choss Creek is under the red arrow.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 15, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
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Damn near offended.
How Christian of you.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 15, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've been skipping psyche meds my entire life.
And, I have successfully evaded any doctor who might want to prescribe such drugs.
Love is the drug, that I'm thinking of.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 15, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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When asked if North Korean leader Kim Jong Un would visit the White House, President Donald Trump said that he likely would, complimented his “strong” leadership, and said he wished Americans would “sit up at attention” when he speaks like the North Koreans do for Kim.
“Hey, he is the head of a country and I mean he is the strong head,” Trump said of Kim to Fox News’ Steve Doocy on Friday. “Don’t let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fidel Castro held out, to the bitter end, about not embracing the United States. After he was no longer in power, Cuba is being seen as, potentially, part of the global community, and not a pariah state.
Kim Jong-Un may want to move past the isolationist policy of his grandfather and father.
I give Trump props for going there, and opening relations.
Kim Jong-Un may be playing a propaganda trick for his own benefit, or he may want to genuinely want to embrace a more open national policy.
Cuba no longer wants to be marginalized on the world stage. North Korea may want to make the same move.
Trump may be able to assist North Korea in becoming great, in the manner of the Four Tigers - Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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From the whining promoter of the archetypical instance of amphetamine psychosis.
Would ya like like some fresh yellow wee wee on your whites?
"Yeah boss, still shaking it, just tryin' to keep my head above water"
"Don't let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same," Trump said.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you for showing a photo of what the Koch brothers' paper companies are dumping into rivers and local drainage sloughs.
The big money people feed cash into the Republican party, so that there is no enforcement of environmental protection laws that were instigated by President Nixon (a Republican).
That photo is for EPA chief Scott Pruitt, what the Russian hooker Moscow pee-tape is for Trump.
Again, thanks for making our point for us. You're a double agent, but on our side.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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Not the Kokes, but it's all the same in some sense.
That's Tejas recycling urine according to the article.
Desperate times call for a tall, cool glass of creativity in this patch of West Texas where water is scarce and quickly disappearing.
But a plan to pump millions of new gallons of drinking water into the system has many people across West Texas holding their noses.
This week construction started on a $13 million water-reclamation facility. That’s a fancy way of describing a treatment plant that will turn sewage wastewater into drinking water.
“That’s not something I even want to think about,” said Eunice Thixton, a Big Spring resident. “It really doesn’t sound too good.”
AS they say in the White House (Kremlin?) and Texas:
Urine is golden.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was confused. I saw a similar scene, in a documentary about the Koch brothers.
I am not an expert on toxic waste being discharged into public waterways to the distress of people marginalized by the untoward big cash money influence of rich and powerful people and corporations.
I just get angry, and it all trends towards looking the same to me.
A water reclamation project, turning piss into Paisano, is not the worst thing in the world.
The Hyperion sewage plant in Los Angeles is probably at the forefront of that sort of technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_sewage_treatment_plant
Here, where I live, the treated waste water is passed through pipes of a different color, to identify it as such, and it is used for landscaping irrigation.
On Catalina Island, they use sea water for flushing toilets, and the corrosion problems keep the plumbers in business.
What are you going to do????????
Paisano Overhang is a John Long masterpiece at Suicide Rock = climbing related
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:50pm PT
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Tom, you are ignoring the nukes. It is everything. Cuba had no nukes and was far less oppressive society
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
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Shifting into a different, higher gear:
Paul Manafort has had his bail revoked, and he has been remanded to custody. It is highly likely that he will remain in a cage for the rest of his life. He has almost no valuable information for Mueller. He has almost no bargaining chips to play. He is just a guy who, somehow, thought it was clever to come to the forefront of the National Stage after engaging in illegal activity.
Trump's fixer Michael Cohen has only four options, all of them either bad or unlikely:
incarceration
cooperation
exoneration
assassination
This is a terrible state of affairs, and I have sympathy and empathy for him. He is a human being, and he has screwed up his situation.
I thank God that I am such a small man that I have only screwed up to a small degree, and that I don't have to face what he is now facing.
This THING is playing out, in real time, before us, and it will get worse.
The benefit to the public is that this situation is so extreme, it will result in a future wherein this will (hopefully) never happen again.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2018 - 09:39pm PT
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A mathematician, or physicist, or engineer, would agree that the proper settling point for a pendulum is in the middle.
When the pendulum swings far to the left, and then far to the right, the proper settling position will, eventually, be in the middle.
We are seeing a swing far to the right.
Newton's Laws of Motion state that a pendulum will swing far to the left, after a swing far to the right.
But, a suitable corrective force on a pendulum can cause it to settle in the middle.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jun 15, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
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Trump's fixer Michael Cohen has only four options, all of them either bad or unlikely:
incarceration
cooperation
exoneration
assassination
Tom, you forgot one option: our Dear Leader could pardon him.
Since there doesn't seem to be any real thing that he sees as "justice," anymore than he sees "truth," what's fair won't be a factor in deciding whether to pardon him or not. And neither will Dear Leader think of what's good for the country.
The only considerations will be what he can get away with while doing what's good for himself.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 15, 2018 - 11:49pm PT
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The Supreme Court of the United States came out with a ruling”
“...While reckless assaults upon pub lic men, and efforts to bring obloquy upon those who are endeavoring faith fully to discharge official duties, exert a baleful influence and deserve the se verest condemnation in public opinion, it cannot be said that this abuse is greater, and it is believed to be less, than that which characterized the peri od in which our institutions took shape. Meanwhile, the administration of gov ernment has become more complex, the opportunities for malfeasance and cor ruption have multiplied, crime has grown to most serious proportions, and the danger of its protection by unfaith ful officials and of the impairment of the fundamental security of life and property by criminal alliances and offi cial neglect, emphasizes the primary need of a vigilant and courageous press, especially in great cities. The fact that the liberty of the press may be abused by miscreant purveyors of scandal does not make any the less necessary the immunity of the press from previous restraint in dealing with official mis conduct.”
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2018 - 12:54am PT
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Tom, you forgot one option: our Dear Leader could pardon him.
The magnificence of our governmental system is that the State is not beholden to the Federal with respect to prosecuting crimes at the State level.
Trump can't pardon Cohan, for crimes brought before a State Attorney General.
Trump's delusional and illusory omnipotence doesn't extend to the State level, at all.
Prosecutors are not stupid.
They play their cards very sagaciously.
When criminals should go to jail, the cards are played appropriately.
Trump's power to pardon co-conspirators is well known.
Sagacious prosecutors know how to obviate that maneuver.
Prosecution, at the State level, is one way to ensure justice.
Read your Watergate history.
The President is not a King.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 16, 2018 - 07:00am PT
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Problem is, America’s wealth is increasingly lopsided, with the affluent and the ultra-wealthy amassing rising proportions and everyone else benefiting modestly if at all.
The top 10 percent of the country holds 73 percent of its wealth, a share that has crept steadily up since 1986, according to the World Inequality Database. The most sweeping gains are concentrated among the top 1 percent; this group holds nearly 39 percent of the wealth. And they’re arguably poised to become even more prosperous because Trump’s tax cuts largely favored the wealthiest slice of individual taxpayers.
Contrast that with the middle 40 percent of the country, a group that would historically be considered middle class. In 1986, they held 36 percent of the country’s wealth; now, it’s just 27 percent.
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A Essex
climber
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Jun 16, 2018 - 07:38am PT
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#loser
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 16, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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“So the big fat dummy insults Canada’s Prime Minister and Canadians, and says it’s an “honour” to meet the murderous dictator?”
Trump has far more respect for authoritarian systems of government than he does for democracies.
If he rose to the top in a system that allowed it, he would happily be a Putin/Erdogan/Duterte. And he would be just as ruthless and cruel.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 16, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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tRump will be as ruthless and cruel as the GOP manipulated SCOTUS and Congress allow him to be. It could get worse. Much worse.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 16, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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This is a terrible state of affairs, and I have sympathy and empathy for him. He is a human being, and he has screwed up his situation.
I thank God that I am such a small man that I have only screwed up to a small degree, and that I don't have to face what he is now facing.
I have zero sympathy. I'll save that for the young person brought up in a single parent household with little positive influence available to help form their life; where the streets gave them no real good choices but crime.
Cohen and that ilk had ample opportunity to walk away from criminality, and choose a different path. None of those people has ever gone a day hungry, never worried how they'd pay for their most basic needs.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jun 16, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
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Yes, when people who have had every advantage still decide to embrace the criminal path it says a lot about the ethical state of the nation at large.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 16, 2018 - 04:11pm PT
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^ I'm not certain I agree with that.
Do you believe the TrumpCo ethics say something about YOU, as a citizen of this country? If the answer is no - why would you be exempt?
There are plenty of people who have wealth or have been supported by it that do not act in unethical/illegal ways.
There are plenty of people who have struggled daily to meet their basic needs, who choose against criminality.
On another thought - This morning I was thinking: Trump could have run as Democrat, had what he really wanted was to "be president."
1)Why didn't he?
2) What if he had - how would GOP be stomaching "The Trump Saga" if it WERE a Democrat issue? Seriously - for those who are supporting Trump still - imagine he is DEM, with these daily installations of his reality/horror show. How would you be reacting then?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 16, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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I have zero sympathy. I'll save that for the young person brought up in a single parent household with little positive influence available to help form their life; where the streets gave them no real good choices but crime.
Are you speaking from experience? Did you choose crime?
If you're not speaking from experience, then you literally don't know what you're talking about. If you are speaking from experience and didn't choose crime, then you are just one of MANY exceptions to your "rule." Indeed, there IS no "rule" as you suggest.
I can speak from such experience. I did not choose crime. I watched the decision-making processes of those around me that did choose crime. And they had REAL good choices besides the ones they made.
I have zero sympathy for the ones that choose the life of crime and then blame "society" for their cop-outs.
And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created. So, you get your wish and then have ONLY "sympathy" for the victims of your policies.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Of course, it's all the Republicans' fault, now Trump's.
People (and corporations) should enjoy the consequences of their choices. Both individual and corporate welfare is wrong. Both Republicans and Democrats believe in stealing; they just both believe that THEIR stealing is morally justified. Neither is. You sympathy is misplaced.
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Jun 16, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
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And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created
I LOL'd.
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 16, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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Madbolters a veritable false equivalence machine. Pretty comical.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 16, 2018 - 05:24pm PT
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cute race traitor ya got there!
And who's the racist here?
Oh, riggghhhttt... Black scholars should all toe the racial line about how "underprivileged" SOCIETY has made blacks. Any black scholar not toeing that line is a "race traitor."
WHO's the racist here?
"you get a safety net" they told the left "just as long as we make sure it doesn't work!"
I'm just curious why you continue to support the Democratic party, when by your own lights it is perpetually so UTTERLY legislatively incompetent.
I mean, to hear you tell it, the poor, poor Democrats can just NEVER get their way, because the Great Satan always messes up what would otherwise be able to produce the great utopia. The poor, poor Democrats appear to be perpetually unable to get their way in the world, which is why ALL blame must fall on the Great Satan.
Poor, incompetent Democrat party. And poor, blind followers of it after so many years of demonstrated (by the followers' own arguments) legislative incompetency.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 16, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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Madbolters a veritable false equivalence machine.
Oooo, somebody found Wiki's "fallacies" page. LOL
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Jun 16, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
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^^When previously staunch Conservatives go bad. It's gotta be a whirlwind in that 7DA brain right now to make things sensible.
Still LOL'ing.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 16, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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MB1! I'm so glad you are back & posting.
I feared you missed this post, due to "real-world" needs & wants on your part.
Jun 14, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
I perhaps offended MB1, by asserting that the Republican Tax Cut was done for the benefit of their rich & corporate donors, & for the benefit of the greedy.
I’ve always thought of MB1 as an Ayn Rand character similar to Howard Roark, although quite a bit longer on prose, & shorter on integrity.
Here’s a bit of a longish Atlantic Magazine article, that traces the popularization of greed to the 1700’s, but gives credit to author Ayn Rand for the current popularity of greed among conservatives.
Accordingly, in recent decades, a new line of argument has opened in the moral defense of greed, a change that was augured and embodied above all others by Ayn Rand. Rand understood that, when someone defended greed by an appeal to the common good, he was also conceding that greed could be checked by it. As the moral foundation for free markets, such an argument was entirely unacceptable to Rand, who took aim at it in her 1965 essay What is Capitalism?
“Implicitly, uncritically, and by default, political economy accepted as its axioms the fundamental tenets of collectivism,” she declared in a sweeping indictment of the Invisible Hand tradition. “The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim that it represents the best way to achieve ‘the common good.’” That may be so, but it is “merely a secondary consequence.” Instead, capitalism is the only economic system in which “the exceptional men” are not “held down by the majority” and in which (as she said elsewhere) the “only good” that humans can do to one another and “the only statement of their proper relationship” are both acknowledged: “Hands off!”
A woman who titled a collection of essays The Virtue of Selfishness, Rand was given to brackish candor. Yet at a time when many people think that the common good is more often imperiled than empowered by unbridled greed, she provides an alternative defense of the acquisitive instinct by appealing to an ethics of gross achievement and a formulation of personal liberty that looks with suspicion and disdain on any talk of civic duty, moral obligation, or even prudential restraint. Her aim was simple: To relieve greed, once and for all, of any moral taint.
“I think greed is healthy,” an apparent acolyte told the graduating class at Berkeley’s business school in 1986. “You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself.” The speaker was Ivan Boesky, who shortly thereafter would be fined $100 million, and later go to prison, for insider trading. His address was adapted by Oliver Stone as the basis for Gordon Gekko’s “greed is good” speech in Wall Street. An exhortation to shareholders of a sagging company, it reads like a corporate raider’s war cry, with Gekko the grinning avatar of Agency Theory.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/greed-is-good-a-300-year-history-of-a-dangerous-idea/360265/
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 16, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
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He is a victim of trumps policy’s.......lol
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 16, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
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I’ve always thought of MB1 as an Ayn Rand character similar to Howard Roark, although quite a bit longer on prose, & shorter on integrity.
Then, as with your politics, you've gotten your thinking wrong on all points.
I'm still so sickened by "cute race traitor" that I think I'll go throw up and leave you goofballs alone with yourselves.
I'm SO glad that this thread is not a reflection of the thinking of most people in the USA.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 16, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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Good thing for that electoral college ,aye?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 16, 2018 - 07:37pm PT
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MB1?
I am so Sorry to have to send you to the bathroom to regurgitate, & worse yet, I don't even know where you found the "cute race traitor" quote that soooo-upset your tender guts.
I'm still so sickened by "cute race traitor" that I think I'll go throw up and leave you goofballs alone with yourselves.
Please!
Let us all observe a second of internet respect, for MB1's tender sensibilities.
It appears he is not a Howard Roark kind of hero.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 16, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
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Mad Bolter, It's always the same tune. First comes the smoke screen of the paragmatic arbitrator who commands a uniquely objective and authoritative perspective. This is usually followed by the lengthy didactic narative where you sneak in a drive-by inference like this.And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created
There is no way in hell to quantify such a bullsh!t statement. You intentionally drop caustic notions like this as fact, to draw out your imaginary, intolerant, liberal cabal so you can cast yourself the fair and balanced martyr. This of course is followed by the, counting now...287th threat of departing the premises.
I actually laugh when I read and write half this crap so lighten up. You complete us.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 16, 2018 - 09:29pm PT
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Trumps policy of separating illegal immigrant children from their families is downright evil. Their “caregivers” aren’t allowed to touch (comfort) these kids who maybe under 4 years old and ripped away from their mothers. Now they plan to put them in tents in Texas in the summer. They are traumatizing these children many of whom may now have life long issues. I know Trump is a demogouge, but it seems beyond that. I guess he had some real estate deals go bad in Mexico, but I hope that alone didn’t generate the animosity to create a policy like this.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 16, 2018 - 09:39pm PT
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A good parent would never enact such a vile policy. Trump has never been accused of being a good parent. It is his family's legacy.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 16, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
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And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created
I always thought it was the wars we have been involved in.
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A Essex
climber
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Jun 17, 2018 - 05:10am PT
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and so It begins... the children are just the start
The Mark of The Beast, right hand and forehead, and the Evangelicals are the first in line
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 17, 2018 - 05:49am PT
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It's truly a tragdy. Ive worked side by side with latin American immigrants my whole life (legal). The characterizations are terrible and false. They pay taxes and work their asses off.
Now I'm going to be forced to build homes with yours and my sons- just imagine how that's going to work out...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 17, 2018 - 06:18am PT
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Mad Bolter, It's always the same tune. First comes the smoke screen of the paragmatic arbitrator who commands a uniquely objective and authoritative perspective. This is usually followed by the lengthy didactic narative where you sneak in a drive-by inference like this.
And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created
There is no way in hell to quantify such a bullsh!t statement. You intentionally drop caustic notions like this as fact, to draw out your imaginary, intolerant, liberal cabal so you can cast yourself the fair and balanced martyr. This of course is followed by the, counting now...287th threat of departing the premises.
I actually laugh when I read and write half this crap so lighten up. You complete us.
^^^ contractor
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jun 17, 2018 - 07:20am PT
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A new wave of fake outrage and drooling. What will it be next week?
The politard fools here only read headlines....then self-immolation.
Obama implemented the same policies. He coulda worked to change the law. Were you outraged then?
As usual, your reality is based on lies. Maybe lay off the sauce before noon??? Less drool will follow.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 17, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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Obama implemented the same policies..,
As usual, your reality is based on lies
LOL!
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jun 17, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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Grow nd chuck. The reason the WH hasn’t been burned down by now is that nobody is really sure that kids are getting pulled from families - could be false news.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 17, 2018 - 10:31am PT
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It's truly a tragdy. Ive worked side by side with latin American immigrants my whole life (legal). The characterizations are terrible and false. They pay taxes and work their asses off.
Now I'm going to be forced to build homes with yours and my sons- just imagine how that's going to work out...
Umm, perfectly?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 17, 2018 - 11:56am PT
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And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created
Yeah, if only we could go back to the good old days when it was impossible to get a divorce and we could stone woman for adultery.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 17, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
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^What liberal policies? The ones that gave women some bit of ability to divorce abusive, drunken husbands?
"By God, when a woman had to stand by her man, no matter what - till death do us part and all, that was when America was great! Ever since those women became able to feed their children without a man handing them money, were allowed to take out loans and buy cars or own a home, things have gone to hell in a handbasket."
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jun 17, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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And the single-parent household is something that liberal policies have almost entirely created
What they're talking about are welfare moms in the ghetto. But the real problem is lack of available, affordable housing that allows couples to raise middle-class families. The high price of tuition also tends to lower middle-class ambitions to get their kids into the professions. No more low-interest Cal Vet and FHA loans either. The simple fact is that less and less people can afford to aspire to a middle-class lifestyle since they simply can't afford to pay for it. You just don't get solid medical, dental and retirement benefits working in the service industries. The real culprit is what no one like to really talk about is a lowering standard of living for a bigger and bigger segment of the American population. If you're part of that group and you wind up getting pregnant, it's like walking the plank into a life-time of poverty.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 17, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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All very true,Bruce.
This is where we are heading with the normalization of things Trump.
Just be born white.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jun 17, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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^^^^^^
Been going on well before Trump, etc.
The masters are tugging on yur strings.
Connected to the dust covered parts of your small brains.
But hey...at least you are finally awake and have something to say.
Have yet to run into any person let alone a group as clueless as you tacotards.
You are a very 'unique' group of 'adults'...lol
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 17, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
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Tacotards lol, for sure.
These taco politards have never even heard of Black Cube and how it has tied into the corrupt govt. here for years.
Instead, these brainwashed taco politards all they ever see is this main loon media Russian horseshit garbage .....
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 17, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
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Tell us more about your jewish conspiracy theories, WB.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 17, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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The projection in the two posts above is hilarious.
Edit: the two above monolith
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 07:32am PT
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Well, trump supporters getting butthurt because of comparisons to naziism can go cry to their mamas. A presidency that separates children (mostly brown children—hey what a coincidence!) from parents begs for such comparisons. The orange f*#kface’s musings about reining in the free press and self pardons don’t help either.
But hey, at least republican donors get tax cuts and enough firepower so crackpots can obliterate schools. MAGA mofos.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 18, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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The real culprit is what no one like to really talk about is a lowering standard of living for a bigger and bigger segment of the American population.
And that's why we got Trump.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 18, 2018 - 07:41am PT
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Point 6 in Ground Chuck’s post on Anti-Social personalities brought a smile to my face.
6. The antisocial personality habitually selects the wrong target.
If a tire is flat from driving over nails, he or she curses a companion or a noncausative source of the trouble. If the radio next door is too loud, he or she kicks the cat.
If A is the obvious cause, the antisocial personality inevitably blames B or C or D.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 08:17am PT
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Seems that most who post on this thread are very partisan. Most who just peak into this thread understand that truth is the first casualty of partisanship.
My personal philosophy is similar to the wise men who wrote the constitution: Limited government.
Those wise men understood that more power equals more corruption.
That basic premise is where the concept of American exceptionalism comes from.
Americans are no better than people of any other country (and they may be more arrogant about their alleged superiority), but it is the concept of limited government that is truly exceptional in the history of civilization.
Now there is scientific proof backing up what the founders intuitively understood, and what we all have witnessed as the government has expanded it's responsibilities: Those bastards in Washington are a bunch of psychopaths.
A first-of-its-kind analysis ranking state-level estimates of psychopathy across the continental United States and the District of Columbia has found Washington DC harbours the highest concentration of psychopaths in the whole country.
https://www.sciencealert.com/psychopath-capital-of-the-us-according-science-states-ranked-washington-dc
If you want the world to be a better place, look in the mirror and make yourself a better person.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 18, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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Especially this November!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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If you want the world to be a better place, look in the mirror and make yourself a better person.
This works very well for direct personal interactions. If everyone felt this way, the world would - indeed - be a better place.
Unfortunately, there is a broader world out there, and there is only so far our personal attempts to better ourselves go. If a kind, generous, law-abiding person moves themself and their family into a crime-ridden neighborhood, all the prayer and yoga in a day won't change the reality what's going on outside their window.
One doesn't have to choose between practicing self-improvement and being aware of a serious quake occurring around the geo-political world.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 18, 2018 - 10:59am PT
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The real culprit is what no one like to really talk about is a lowering standard of living for a bigger and bigger segment of the American population.
And that's why we got Trump.
Yeah, when you have economic insecurity countries are more likely to elect angry populist.
And isn't it great that the biggest piece of legislation that Trump has signed was a trillion dollar tax increase for the 0.1%.
Oh wait...
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Trump
climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 11:05am PT
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Sh#t, and I thought this survival of the fittest thing was gonna be all peace love and Vuarnets. And I really do love sunglasses. No one told me I was gonna have to trash talk the partisans!
Who knew - turns out I like it as much as the trash talkers on the other side. I’m just not as good at it as our trash talker in chief.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 18, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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There is a special place in hell for those who corrupt the teachings of the bible for their own personal gain.
Watching Pence and company try to justify their cruelty with bible quotes is about as low as you can go. Even Jesus would probably kick him in the nutz.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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Happiegirl2 posted
Unfortunately, there is a broader world out there, and there is only so far our personal attempts to better ourselves go.
Unfortunately there are some with great leverage who have no limit in their attempts to tell us how to better ourselves.
"a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals"
C.S.Lewis
The above quote fits just as well with social justice warriors as it does with religious moralists.
My efforts to accelerate the evolutionary process of civilization would have a poor cost / benefit ratio.
Partisan political causes not only tend to generate hyperbole in support of their positions, but they make great efforts to discredit or misrepresent valid but opposing positions.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 18, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
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Like Climate Change,really?
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 18, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
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So trump, and his cronies say that this is a nation of laws. How ironic, in that trump, and his cronies don't adhere to any laws.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 18, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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SO,
Where are the little forum conservatives ?
Come on back Honey Boo Boo !
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Jun 18, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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Just heard some audio from one of the child internment camps- unbelievable that our government is doing this. Or I guess sadly easily believable with trump.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jun 18, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
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Just found out about the child internment camps. I don't care about partisan or not, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of as#@&%es.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
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SO,
Where are the little forum conservatives ?
No doubt, busily searching for the latest whataboutisms and false equivalency talking points. They’ll be ready sometime tomorrow morning.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
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Couldn't our [sic] porcine president [sic] just pardon all these border crossers.
I'm sure many of them, in addition to fleeing potential murder in the "homelands", suffer from that humanizing malady of bone spurs.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
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Oh yeah, your efforts to accelerate evolution suck accordingly.
Well Jim, that was my point. I make no effort to save the world... to the relief of those who know me ;-)
Cheers
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 19, 2018 - 07:02am PT
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Trade war and child internment camps. The winning feels so good.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jun 19, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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How ironic, in that trump, and his cronies don't adhere to any laws.
LoL....just like the previous 8yrs. You politard clowns were clearly asleep. Or...in Nortloons case, nodding off in a narco-stupor.
Obummers world...you were sleeping and braindead
-Splitting immigrant families
-Running guns to the cartel
-AG under contempt
-Partisan FBI
-etc,etc
The pacifier was ripped from your third eye and now the butthurt has you crying in your cribs.
So confused.
The truth is too much for crying baby minds. Best get your bluebutt pacifier and go back to sleep.
You serve no purpose to the current world other than keeping Pampers in business
Arch criminals like Pelosi are your hallmark...sleep well
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jun 19, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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Elections have consequences Stolen by chad or neo-fascists
for the record was between the short, last 2 minutes: -screaming- "you blew it up"- which is worth waiting for, at the end
& this the long version, so when I hesitated, then well?it seems more fitting than when I was deliberating
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 19, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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Elections have consequences
Driving drunk and wrapping your car around a telephone pole has consequences too. People make choices. Some turn out to be big mistakes.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 19, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
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Five time draft dodger, Cadet Bone Spurs, hugs the flag
and the cretins voted for him, come on back Billy Bob
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 19, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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HomanBest get your bluebutt pacifier #3 bluebutt pacifier... hands? For us libs, I'm thinking .5 purple, sloppy fingers at most.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 19, 2018 - 08:08pm PT
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*According to an analysis by The Post’s Fact Checker through the end of May, Trump had made 3,251 false or misleading claims in 497 days — an average of 6.5 LIES per day of his presidency.
There’s just no relationship between his statements — anything he utters — and the actual truth of the matter,” said Thomas Murray, president emeritus of the Hastings Center, the founding institution in the field of bioethics. “As far as I can tell, the best way to understand anything he says is what will best serve his interests in the moment. It’s irrespective to any version of the truth.”
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 19, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
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Most self described patriots wrap themselves up in the flag. Today Trump, true to form, humped an American flag
yeah, wtf was that?
you know folks trump is playing us.
what are the two things trump likes more than prostitutes? money, and attention. this attention he gets puts the russian investigation on the back page.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2018 - 11:38pm PT
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Tearing children from their parents is hopefully as far as this psychopath is willing to go to distract attention from his misdeeds.
But, I am not confident, in that regard.
Trump has more sh#t up his sleeve than a cattleman examining his herd for pregnancies.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 02:43am PT
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One night, while catching up on his Disney Channel reruns, President Trump was astonished to see an underaged Ivanka-clone speaking in a fake Russian accent.
The next morning, Trump came roaring downstairs and said, "YOU'RE HIRED!"
Caroline Sunshine, a former Disney Channel star, is now with the White House Press Office. She is widely respected, and she may take over when Sarah Huckabee Sanders retires.
Caroline Sunshine's Twitter account has over a million followers, making her the most experienced White House Press Officer to ever serve any President of the United States. Period.
I didn't make any of that up.
I put it into context.
http://roshonoline.wikia.com/wiki/Tinka
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/politics/caroline-sunshine-white-house/index.html
Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted.
Franz Kafka
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 04:58am PT
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Trump and his foul ilk are a danger to our nation, and for the future of the people that we care about, and for people that we've never met, yet.
It is astonishing that we are tolerating a Hitler-type demagogue, when, supposedly, everybody knows to stay away from a rabid and crazy animal like that.
But, the Republican Party embraces a rabid animal, hoping, against hope, that the infection is beneficial, and not fatal. The Republican Party knows that the animal is rabid, and vicious, and crazy and tearing away at the fabric of our society . . . . . . .
. . . . . . But, the Republican Party's response to Trump's clear and present insanity is: "What is so bad, about having rabies?"
The Hell that the Evangelicals talk about (all the time} is being brought to earth by their man Trump, whose entire administration is evil, with some proclaiming to be men of God.
What god, is that?
Jeff Sessions invoked this scripture, Romans 13
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.
This is in direct conflict with the Constitution of the United States, specifically, the separation of Church and State.
Further, Romans 13 implies that a governmental system has been established by God. Which God? The Constitution explicitly states that all Gods are equal under law, and that no single God shall rule the nation. In fact, no God, whatsoever, shall rule. The law of man shall rule. And, all Gods are equal, with respect to worship and tax-free special treatment.
Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General of the United States of America, said that separating tiny children from their parents was according to the rules of his god.
This "god" that Jeff Sessions worships is the devil. Jeff Sessions is a tool of the devil. The son of the devil. Only a monster, or the son of the devil, would take tiny children away from their parents, and put them into cages.
Jeff Sessions: you should put on some BBQ sauce. The Devil is going to COOK you for what you have done. There is no confession, or contrition available, for what you have done. You are going to HELL. The Christian concept of forgiveness does not extend to a man who is so evil, he intentionally distresses and injures other people, and especially for a sordid purpose of suckling the phallus of a false god.
I was only doing my job.
That will be the only sound that Jeff Sessions, rebuked by his entire church, will make, as the Netherworld Demons drag him into a fiery dungeon, in the Bowels of Nadir, and cook him down to a viscous, runny substance, like what a hot-shot food-channel Malibu Barbie would put onto the counter, as proof she went to some sort of cooking school in Pasadena.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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Top campaign advisor for McCain and Schwarzenegger Steve Schmidt renounces his membership in the Republican Party.
Via twitter:
I have spent much of my life working in GOP politics. I have always believed that both parties were two of the most important institutions to the advancement of human freedom and dignity in the history of the world. Today the GOP has become a danger to our democracy and values.
This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/20/17482826/family-separations-border-gop-steve-schmidt-leaves
He’s right. Warts and all, the Democratic party is the only viable party left that is grounded in reality and decency.
I’m strictly partisan out of necessity. To those who whine about partisans, wake up, the republcian party is hopelessly corrupted and needs to be demolished. There is only one way to do that—vote democratic and get them out of office.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General of the United States of America, said that separating tiny children from their parents was according to the rules of his god.
Wait until Jefferson Sessions finds out that "god" is a black woman.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:05am PT
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They are bleeding America dry. Trump and his cronies. The Republicans. The Democrats who acquiescence.
The POTUS is not the most powerful man on earth, as the story tells. Putin is the most powerful man/person on earth.
Outside of the fact that Putin may have multi-billions laundered away, he has been overseeing the dismantling of the "West". And the "West" has been obliging him.
Forget about Obama, the Clintons, the past. Look to the future.
What do you see?
For the conservatives, and some look like alt-right in my eyes by their posts, not conservative but Trump fanatics, they do not care about consensus, as long as "their" side wins.
For the liberals on this forum, I am one, how many of us have lost the way? We have become them, in some ways. Some close-minded and spiteful.
Do not concentrate on Trump alone. There is a sickness in America and quack quack ducks are not the answer.
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:06am PT
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"They totally caved on the Dreamer..."
Correct me if I'm wrong Dingus, aren't "they" the sort of Democrats you tend to like.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:07am PT
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I’m strictly partisan out of necessity.
Great comment dirtbag. Very few words, completely filled with meaning.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 08:13am PT
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Trump, like a spoiled child run amok in a General Motors factory, destroying all the equipment, throwing wrenches into the machinery, and pouring acid onto people, and "Experimenting, just to see what happens".
Ford remains, as the only option.
Not so bad.
At Ford, job #1 is, get rid of the spoiled brat, for good.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:13am PT
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Steve Schmidt - Republican Campaign Manager, John McCain
Verified account
@SteveSchmidtSES
Follow Follow @SteveSchmidtSES
 More
This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.
11:41 PM - 19 Jun 2018
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:15am PT
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So chid internment camps.
Could Trump be creating a generation of people, born in America, torn from their families, who become resentful? A new breed of terrorism?
Think about that.
EDIT
As far as I can see, and how far is debatable, Trump is on the path of creating a pariah state. I know that sounds outrageous. But just stop and think.
The duck and others (Yuri and Lituya, and others) want to stick up for Putin, it seems (I could be wrong but look at their posts). They are Kremlin apologists as far as I can see. The duck, an immigrant to America (has he proven otherwise?), wants to denigrate immigrants (I could be wrong, but…)
Putin is pissed off, He is competent unlike Trump. He saw that the dismantling of the USSR was down to "Western" meddling. So he is on a two-fold mission. Build up Russia and destroy the 'West'. Understandable in his eyes. who could blame him?
Now Trump, in bed financially with Russian money (it is there to see, look it up, I am not your nanny Trumpites, I will not hold your hand if you cry at facts).
Does 2+2 still equal 4?
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:16am PT
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a few weeks ago, at a cabinet meeting, trump brought Nielsen to tears, and she almost quit. He told she was doing a poor job.
I guess she needs a job.
Privately, many of us who know Nielsen from Georgetown cannot believe that she is the same person who we see as, if not the architect, then certainly the engineer of this tragically dark chapter of our nation's history. "How does she bring herself to do this?" questioned one mutual friend in a recent group chat among several SFS alums.
on another subject, I heard a radio report that said John Kelly, and trump don't even speak. Kelly has told associates that "he is tired of trying to manage a four year old who won't listen".
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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House GOP is looking to cut medicare and social security to balance the budget, to compensate for the big tax cuts for the richest of the rich.
How do they include social security in the Federal budget? I thought it was supposed to be separate. Are all rules now open to alternative interpretation, backed up by alternative facts?
Trump and GOP are trying to destroy civilization. Trust and honesty are the basic elements of any society, and, somehow, we've got "leaders" who don't believe in either of them.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:33am PT
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“The American people are fed a daily diet of nonsense-talk and lies in the form of what is effectively state media on Fox News and nobody should underestimate the threat posed by a political party where conservatism is now defined by absolute obedience to a leader with autocratic tendencies who fetishizes dictators and autocrats all over the world,”
Steve Schmidt, who left the Republican Party today
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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“Whether they’re for good or bad, all trends in the United States start in California,” Schmidt said. “When you look at the demographics of the Republican Party today, its embrace of white ethno-nationalism; blood-and-soil politics of the type that you traditionally see in the European far-right—the Republican Party demographically will face its demise.”
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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^^^
Tom, is it only the GOP? Trump and his followers only appear to be the culprits, but how many Democrats and other are also colluding?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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Norton, it is a nice evening, I am enjoying a nice cup of tea, why do you want to depress me with facts?
Hah hah. I do not believe in a God, but if there is one, may he or she or it bless America, because America certainly needs it.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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I agree with dirtbag!
He’s right. Warts and all, the Democratic party is the only viable party left that is grounded in reality and decency.
I’m strictly partisan out of necessity. To those who whine about partisans, wake up, the republcian party is hopelessly corrupted and needs to be demolished. There is only one way to do that—vote democratic and get them out of office.
I'm almost out the door, for a 150 mile drive to a remote ghost-town in NE Nevada, to look for minerals of interest. I'll be listening to Fox News on the way. It does help me understand what the "Trumpists" believe, although I do have to turn off the Fox "talking heads" every now & then when they get a little too shrill.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:44am PT
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tRump and his ilk live in a compassionless world where there are only winners and losers. "Winning" is the only thing that matters, so every end justifies the means to that end. He comes from privilege, and has gotten virtually everything he has through lying, stealing, fear and intimidation. To his supporters, that makes him "strong" and someone worthy of admiration. That is why he cozies up to other dictators. He was not kidding when he said he wished the American people loved him like Kim.
Make no mistake, this is a coup. The tRump aligned GOP are on the path to legitimize a privileged ruling class, with a large base of serfs to support it. They are forcing us to choose a side.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:46am PT
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Neither should we forget the mean, which at the present day is lost sight of in perverted forms of government; for many practices which appear to be democratical are the ruin of democracies, . . Those who think that all virtue is to be found in their own party principles push matters to extremes; they do not consider that disproportion destroys a state.
aristotle
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:00am PT
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tRump and his ilk live in a compassionless world where there are only winners and losers. "Winning" is the only thing that matters, so every end justifies the means to that end. He comes from privilege, and has gotten virtually everything he has through lying, stealing, fear and intimidation. To his supporters, that makes him "strong" and someone worthy of admiration. That is why he cozies up to other dictators. He was not kidding when he said he wished the American people loved him like Kim.
Make no mistake, this is a coup. The tRump aligned GOP are on the path to legitimize a privileged ruling class, with a large base of serfs to support it. They are forcing us to choose a side.
Heck Stahl, to iterate, I am just enjoying a dry Irish evening. And then you hit me with these truths. It is not fair. Cannot I have a nice cup of tea in peace?
No. I cry for America, I cry for my country. Yeah the Trump and his BS is going on, but I sincerely believe it will hit the fan. While I have lived and worked abroad (about 47% of my life, by calculations) I am still an American. The US will survive this Trump shitstorm. We are stronger than that prick.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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The differences between the Democrats and Republicans became so pronounced as far back as the early 1900's beginning with child labor laws.
That trend has only accelerated to this day, and for that reason I will only vote for Democrats, across the ballot box.
John Kasich, Republican governor of Ohio, is a good example.
On the surface he comes across as oh so moderate, such a nice guy.
But consider why he chose to be a member of the Republican Party to begin with,
and go back and read his history of quotes showing he carries their water as well as anyone.
The Bernie people voted for the candidate they liked the best and in so doing they handed the Presidency to Donald Trump.
Vote Democrat, don't be a coward and vote for any random someone you "like".
And IF you cannot defend the Democratic Party platform in every single detail, then don't vote Democrat.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:09am PT
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And I have to add, good heavens Trumpites. He is kowtowing to the world's worst dictators. He seems to love despots like Kim and Putin. He wants to emulate them.
Doesn't that sound alarm bells with you?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:31am PT
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And Werner, f*#k off with your stupid quacks. So this thread is a politard one, at least those who agree and disagree have some input (most of the posts, and some are full of sh#t, IMO) but you sit here, with your presidential commendation as a SAR person, and think you can just call us stoopid.
It amuses me, but it is tiring. Contribute something, either side, or just shut the f*#k up.
And yes, Putin and Russia are trying to control things, wouldn't you if you were in their shoes? So cut the "Russian and Putin are not the problem" crap. They are part of the problem facing western democracy that liberal or illiberal or neo-libearal or whatever.
It is better than the sh#t society your folks were brought up in, Nazism, and better than Stailnism. It seems, and the signs are there, Trump and his handlers want such control. F*#k Trump and his handlers.
Humans are better than that piece of sh#t.
And for the religious among the Taco Stand, how to you reconcile this as#@&%e with Christian beliefs. You cannot. Face the truth, you have sold your souls if you support Trump.
You can build water networks for the poor in Africa, but is it for them or your belief that you will get into heaven by your "benevolence". You know some think if you sacrifice yourself, you will get virgins in heaven. Are you any different?
What a load of bullshit Trump is feeding his base. He is a con man, and history will show that. In the meantime he is helping to destroy civility.
Prove me wrong.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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Make no mistake, this is a coup. The tRump aligned GOP are on the path to legitimize a privileged ruling class, with a large base of serfs to support it.
We’re facing a coup from our democratically elected leader and representatives?! And next thing you know we’re going to have privileged rich people calling the shots in this country?! In a world where 35k/yr makes you a global 1%er?
Oh no! Next thing you know, who knows, we might even have racism here in our beloved land! I blame Trump.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:47am PT
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Interesting to hear that the US is leaving the UN Human Rights Council. Now they won't need to worry about appearing hypocritical in criticizing similar regimes also run by dictators.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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If I have appeared to be a bit strident in my last few posts, well… I see the US going down a dark tunnel, led by Trump and his ilk. But it is not just Trump, he is a sign of the symptom , I think we all know that.
Like any good con man he saw an opportunity. He may be a lousy POTUS, a crap businessman, a horrible human, but give him marks for being a showman and a con artist.
I want to look to the future but I have to ask of the past: How did we get here? It is not the America I was born and raised in. Or is it?
What then?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 20, 2018 - 10:01am PT
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The Bernie people voted for the candidate they liked the best and in so doing they handed the Presidency to Donald Trump.
Or more accurately:
The Clinton people voted for a candidate nobody liked and in so doing they handed the Presidency to Donald Trump.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Jun 20, 2018 - 10:05am PT
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Or, more accurately, enough racist d#@&%e bags voted for Donald Trump.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:04am PT
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Putin is loving this. The dishevel in America.
And Yury, Lituya and Werner, your pro-Russian stances are noted. ("Russia is not behind this stoopid Americans".)
I love Russia
My wife is from Russia. Wait I have no wife. My best friends are from Russia. Okay, not really.
Am I a paranoid? Only of suppressive klepto, authoritarian regimes, like Putin's and like Trump seems to admire.
I have no problems with the Russian people or indeed anybody on this earth. It is the leaders.
It is a game, like Risk, but more serious.
EDIT
hands up (except you Reilly you have been here, there and everywhere, you have met God so you are out of my league. And probably free-soloed El Cap first but you suppressed your ego and told nobody. Good. Humility can go a long way).
Who here has interviewed Maggie Thatcher, Bill Clinton, and yada yada.
Jeez, as I raise my hand... me, me, me teacher. (Humble me of course).
And what did I learn?
Not enough.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:10am PT
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Sounds like tRump is caving
Let's wait and see
How are they planning to reunite the already split up families?
Will it be another case of read it and weep?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:11am PT
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Trump is a distraction. Submitted for your approval:
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-on-fascism-showmanship-and-democrats-hypocrisy-in-the-trump-era/
...Liberal commentators exult in totting up and refuting Trump’s innumerable lies and distortions, much to his satisfaction since it provides the opportunity for him to fire up his loyal — by now almost worshipful — base with more evidence of how the hated “Establishment” is using every possible underhanded means to prevent their heroic leader from working tirelessly to defend them from a host of enemies.
A canny politician, Trump surely understands well that the base on which he relies, by now almost the entire Republican Party, has drifted to a surreal world, in part under his influence. Take the major Trump-Ryan legislative achievement, the tax scam — “The US Donor Relief Act of 2017,” as Joseph Stiglitz termed it. It had two transparent aims: to enrich the very wealthy and the corporate sector while slamming everyone else, and to create a huge deficit. The latter achievement — as the main architect of the scam Paul Ryan helpfully explained — provides the opportunity to realize the cherished goal of reducing benefits that serve the general population, already very weak by comparative standards, but still an unacceptable infringement on the prerogatives of the 1%. The congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that the law will add $1 trillion to deficits over the next decade. Virtually every economist generally agrees. But not 80 percent of Republican voters, of whom half believe that the deficit will be reduced by the gift their leader has lavished upon them.
...Such destructive responses tend to break through the surface during periods of distress and fear, very widespread feelings today, for good reason: A generation of neoliberal policies has sharply concentrated wealth and power while leaving the rest to stagnate or decline, often joining the growing precariat. In the US, the richest country in history with unparalleled advantages, over 40 percent of the population don’t earn enough to afford a monthly budget that includes housing, food, child care, health care, transportation and a cell phone. And this is happening in what’s called a “booming economy.”
...All of this has to be done while satisfying the usual Republican constituencies: primarily the business world and the rich. For Trump, that also means unleashing the more brutal wing of the Republican Party so that they can dedicate themselves even beyond the norm to the interest of private wealth and corporate power. Here the technique is to capture the media with attention-grabbing antics, which can be solemnly exposed while the game goes on — so far, quite effectively.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:14am PT
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Syntactically and Semantcally correct!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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What Mr. Chomsky was talkin' about.
The dishonorable Wilbur Ross
Perhaps the most egregiously corrupt aspect of this is that, according to Alexander, Ross even managed to find a way to profit off the exposure of his own corruption: “five days before reports surfaced last fall that Ross was connected to cronies of Vladimir Putin through a shipping firm called Navigator Holdings, the secretary of commerce, who likely knew about the reporting, shorted stock in the Kremlin-linked company, positioning himself to make money on the investment when share prices dropped.”
And while Ross is now formally divested, many of his assets have simply been passed off to a family trust, meaning that the conflicts of interest are still present.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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That assumes all the Hillary voters (which included conservative leaning independents) second choice would have been Bernie.
true
bottom line, many of the Bernie people were such offended snowflakes that he got millions less votes in the primaries than Hillary were SO upset they could not bring themselves to vote for the Democratic nominee, got mad and stayed home or wasted their votes on the Green Party, yes the Bernie people by and large elected Trump
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:26am PT
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How in hell can some of you support Trump?
Yes the system needs changing. But Trump? He is laughing at everybody. Who could figure he was so smart? But con artists may not be clever, they just need to see a weakness to exploit.
And the wound in America was gaping. Ripe for an infection.
And a sinister, creepy bug got in, to infect the US more.
And this bug will be re-elected.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:38am PT
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It is not the America I was born and raised in.
The America I was born into was only a few years removed from “separate but unequal” treatment of blacks in education, social standing, and voting rights.
While in today’s America, 150 years removed from slavery, white median wealth is still 13 times black median wealth. What we’re seeing today isn’t that far outside the mainstream, we’ve just had the privilege to not notice it and the resistance to changing it.
Probably reacting with a strongly worded post about what’s wrong with other people isn’t that far outside the mainstream either, but might not fix it for another 150 years either. And I guess if one were inclined to, one could argue that that too is not a defect, but a feature. But we’re not so inclined to make those kinds of arguments about ourselves.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 20, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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No, that's not going to happen. I'll vote for the person, not the party.
Sure you can vote for whoever you want, but you should be honest about the consequences.
Once upon a time a moderate Democrat/Republican would occasionally cross party lines on votes. Those days are mostly gone. Most of the big pieces of legislation in recent years have been strictly party lines. Obamacare got every Dem senator and zero R's. The recent tax for the 0.1% got zero Dem and almost every R.
So really, which is more important? Voting for the individual you feel better (less bad?) about or choosing a party based on the legislation they will pass?
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Trump
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 12:05pm PT
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As soon as there’s no advantage to compromising in order to work together socially in groups like families and countries and races and heck even parties, we’ll all enjoy the benefits of having our partisan allegiance be only to ourselves. I hope that works better than these social belief processes that reality has foisted on us.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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President Donald Trump, under pressure from angry members of his own party, signed on Wednesday an executive order that is meant to keep families together at the border, halting a policy he instituted earlier this year.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 20, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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What is most important is that my votes represent my values, my choice and decisions.
Absolutely. Everyone should understand this, shouldn't they?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
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“He knows a lot of things about the president and he’s not adverse to talking in the right situation,” a friend of Cohen’s told CNN. “If they want information on Trump he’s willing to give it.”
well well
it looks like Michael Cohen is no longer willing to "take a bullet for Mr. Trump"
he knows where Trump's bodies are buried, things could get very interesting soon
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
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Best be careful relying too much on cohen's friends [sic and sick]
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 03:03pm PT
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FALSE EQUIVALENCE, Cosmic
you got one "Hollywood" aging actor getting mad, wow
why are you not screaming about Trump's being WEAK and a LOSER and giving in to
political pressure and reversing his OWN border policy?
you, Cosmic, do not have the courage or the intellect to be a "liberal", you are a coward
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
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Cosmic - Why on earth would you think that the horrible(and yes, it's absolutely horrible) thing that person wrote was how every "libtard" feels?
I'm seriously asking.
I'm sorry that your have to experience the truth - that your chosen president was just unable to keep his darkness under the cover of night; that the truth of his level of uncaring is clearly on display. I know it must be really difficult to come to an acceptance of the reality - it's a frightening one! But he's an evil criminal, who used, and uses, boldface lies to his benefit.
Hold on to your hope if you must, but know that it is okay to blame HIM for his betrayal of the country. Be angry - at HIM. If, even after THIS(the kidnapped and caged children), you still believe, I don't know what more it would take. I DO hate to correlate to Hitler, but IMO, it is just THIS kind of thing(believing the monster has the good intentions he says he does, when it's so completely and obviously implausible) that led to the mass exterminations of humanity under the third reich.
EDIT:
FWIW, Fonda issued a statement fairly quickly after the Tweet, accepting responsibility, acknowledging the inapropriateness, and apologizing for the hurt it caused.
“I tweeted something highly inappropriate and vulgar about the president and his family in response to the devastating images I was seeing on television,” Fonda said in the statement, released by both his manager and his publicist. “Like many Americans, I am very impassioned and distraught over the situation with children separated from their families at the border, but I went way too far. It was wrong and I should not have done it. I immediately regretted it and sincerely apologize to the family for what I said and any hurt my words have caused.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/celebrities/peter-fonda-apologizes-for-vulgar-barron-trump-tweet/2018/06/20/eef74864-74cc-11e8-bda1-18e53a448a14_story.html?utm_term=.5fbdb402377f
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 20, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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Point is, half of our country has below average iq’s.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
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True^^^
I agree Moose.
Norton,I could say ,Trump is your fault for backing HRC and not the man that would have won,but, I won’t harp on that.
And spare me the socialist/not vetted schtic.
He is going to get voted out ,as he should. His tryout is over.
You know ,what will it be next week,another scandal,anything but him showing his taxes.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 20, 2018 - 04:11pm PT
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tRump has got it down now. Create a crisis, blame someone else, usually “the Democrats”, fix it. That way it is always all about tRump, our new Dear Leader.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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The st00pid brainwashed taco politards ^^^^^ always blame someone else for their very own caused Karmic reactions ......
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 04:49pm PT
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Karmic reaction...... lol Werner.
Yes,it is my fault our POTUS has not shown his taxes.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jun 20, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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From the New York Times today, posted without comment.
WASHINGTON — Deaths now outnumber births among white people in more than half the states in the country, demographers have found, signaling what could be a faster-than-expected transition to a future in which whites are no longer a majority of the American population.
The Census Bureau has projected that whites could drop below 50 percent of the population around 2045, a relatively slow-moving change that has been years in the making. But a new report this week found that whites are dying faster than they are being born now in 26 states, up from 17 just two years earlier, and demographers say that shift might come even sooner.
“It’s happening a lot faster than we thought,” said Rogelio Sáenz, a demographer at the University of Texas at San Antonio and a co-author of the report. It examines the period from 1999 to 2016 using data from the National Center for Health Statistics, the federal agency that tracks births and deaths. He said he was so surprised at the finding that at first he thought it was a mistake.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
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Point is, half of our country has below average iq’s.
White college graduates voted for Trump. As did white non college graduates.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 20, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
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Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms.
Aristotle
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
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Point is, half of our country has below average iq’s.
statistical truism? most likley
White college graduates voted for Trump. As did white non college graduates.
random fact
I'm afraid of being infected by this invasion/infestation by foreign vermin.
random untruth
“It’s happening a lot faster than we thought,” said Rogelio Sáenz, a demographer at the University of Texas at San Antonio and a co-author of the report. It examines the period from 1999 to 2016 using data from the National Center for Health Statistics, the federal agency that tracks births and deaths. He said he was so surprised at the finding that at first he thought it was a mistake.
Smart investors are buying up shares of the BIC Corporation
(makers of Wite Out)
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
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Yes,it is my fault our POTUS has not shown his taxes.
That's right!!!
You wanted to be born on this st00pid planet ......
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
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Norton, we share the same values, but your political analyses are just wrong.
Firstly, you couldn't see the rise of Trump.
Secondly, you assumed HRC would win.
nonsense Moose, you could not possibly know what I thought or assumed
neither could I have known what you were thinking, honestly I could not care less
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
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Norton,I could say ,Trump is your fault for backing HRC and not the man that would have won,but, I won’t harp on that.
Wilbur, yes I suppose you could say that Trump was elected because I voted for Clinton here in New Mexico, but that would be a really dumb conclusion
you are a smart guy, can't you come up with better reason Trump got more electoral
votes than Clinton?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
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It is damn easy man ,Bernie would have crushed in Michigan,Wisconsin,Pa and probably WV,the very states that gave Trump his electoral win.
It really is that simple ,Trump would have had to beat him,where?
I towed the line and went down with the ship.
Monolith said earlier,if HRC asked Bernie to be VP ,this would all be moot.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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Pretty sure ,aye.
Defend him all you want,it behoves you.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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Trade up from bs and media propaganda to flat out lies and inane tweety storms; such a deal!
It's enough to make my bone spurs hurt.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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When you are in a vacuum you probably don’t see that a good percentage of logical (and illogical) thinkers were just flat out sick of all the BS, and a good percentage of people have wised up to the media propaganda machine.
No, Trump just figured out about half of Americans are either idiots, racists, xenophobes, homophobes or all of the above. That and they will swallow and believe any lie which allowed this pandora's box of bigotry out of the closet. That he could get them to vote against their own self-interest and hand the country over to the most corrupt elements of our political and corporate establishments if he got them feeling like victims and blaming 'those people' for all their problems instead of the people truly responsible for their plight - people like Trump and his appointees.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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Moose: Secondly, you assumed HRC would win.
Norton: nonsense Moose, you could not possibly know what I thought or assumed
The thought of digging back through all the pre-election politard threads is enough to gag a maggot, so I'm not going to do it. But, just going on memory here, I think Norton was the one who posted -- about a hundred times -- words to the effect of "Of course Hillary will win. There is simply no way Trump can get enough electoral college votes."
So, yeah, you're right that neither Moose, nor anyone else, could know what you "thought or assumed." Maybe you thought all along that Trump would win and you only posted that he couldn't cuz...
...okay, I don't know why you might have done that. The simple explanation is that you thought and assumed that Hillary would win.
All of which isn't really to dump on Norton, but rather to bring up the fairly obvious truth that most of the posters on these threads posit as fact things they desire. Goes for the nuts on both wings. "I want Hillary to win" somehow becomes "Obviously, there is no way Hillary can lose."
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Trump
climber
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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It was clear after the 2008 elections, the people of the USA were tired of the business as usual. Obama couldn't deliver his promises, so the public was looking for a big change.
Obama was re-elected 4 years after you figured out that the people of the US clearly didn’t want to re-elect the status quo.
I, and many of my friends, recognized both .. Its not really that complicated. Just listen to the people around you.
Yup. Tribal me and those good ‘ole people around me, they know what they’re talking about! Now that the leader of we American tribal me’s is good ‘ole me, and the people around me are white Republicans. Looks like they’re the night’s watch now.
under pressure from angry members of his own party
random fact. I guess all facts are random, unless we can see the connections between them. But lacking sight, belief will serve just fine.
Goes for the nuts on both wings.
Goes for more than just the nuts. But definitely not for me! I just process information using my unbiased perceptions and flawless rationality. That’s just an example of what my unbiased perceptions look like.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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Hear that ....lol.
Good post Ghost
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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Feel free to point out “things”we are blaming people of and for. I have time.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 20, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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Wow, I must live in a vacuum.
Part of that lecture storm I suspect.
Was that a “Karmic reaction”(tm).
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
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Trump, himself, has proven that his earlier statements about his border policy were lies. His staff, such as Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Kirstjen Nielsen, were also lying when they falsely claimed that only Congress would be able to stop his border policy of separating children as young as eight months from their parents. Oddly, GOP members of Congress were unwilling to match Trump, lie-for-lie, and repeat his false and demented assertions that the Democrats were somehow responsible for Trump's border policy.
Trump called reporters to the Oval Office to witness his signing an Executive Order that would ostensibly reverse his insane border policy of seizing children from their parents, and shipping them as far away as Wisconsin and New York. The actual mechanism of reversing the border policy was not disclosed, because all Trump wanted was a photo-op and a short term gain in public popularity.
Naturally, Trump was proud to gloat, and claim credit for solving a problem that he, himself, created.
Not surprisingly, for Trump, the title of the Executive Order he signed today is misspelled.
It is difficult to determine if Trump's staff is comically incompetent, or if Trump intentionally misspelled the word to appeal to his core base of uneducated, illiterate, ignorant and impressionable voters. A con man will often mirror and mimic his mark to draw down his defenses, and make him easier to deceive and defraud.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
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Can you even tell us all what a “libtard” is Cosmic?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 09:12pm PT
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We are in debt up to our asses.
Don't worry. The tax cut for the rich will eliminate the debt . . . . . .
. . . as soon as Congress passes laws to cut Medicare and Social Security to pay for all those private jets and mega-yachts.
MEGA = Make Excess Great Again
And, stop whining about people who want free stuff from the government. The majority of handouts and unnecessary spending goes to rich people and corporations. Where was your outrage over socialism when the banks got bailed out after their crazy gambling schemes fell apart? Like WVB says, you are brainwashed into thinking the people at the bottom are the problem. WRONG.
Trump just signed a spending bill with the highest defense budget ever. So, either he's padding the pockets of his wealthy supporters, or he's gearing up for World War III. Either way, that spending dwarfs what the poor people in this country receive so that they can just stay alive.
The United States sanctioned Russia for invading and annexing Crimea. Putin would like to sanction the United States, in return. So, he had Trump start a trade war that will result in large hidden taxes (tariffs) on goods coming and going from the United States. Trump's trade war is against countries that we have a trade surplus with, and at a time when the economy is peaking, the Federal Reserve is raising interest rates, and the boom of the past decade is behind us, and a recession is right around the corner.
Putin - 1. United States - 0.
At least Mueller is on the case, and like putting Al Capone in prison for tax evasion, Meuller will be able to get rid of Trump for things other than treason, taking bribes from foreign governments and running the White House like his own for-profit public relations firm.
This Presidency is like a huge tit. We're supposed to affix to it and feed.
Donald Doosh
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 20, 2018 - 09:52pm PT
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All this winning is so tiresome...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 20, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
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Southern Methodist University just released a study that says that Washington D.C. has the highest concentration of psychopaths in the nation.
'The presence of psychopaths in District of Columbia is consistent with the conjecture found in Murphy (2016) that psychopaths are likely to be effective in the political sphere," the author writes.
Judging from the past eighteen months, the highest concentration of psychopaths in Washington D.C. would be in the West Wing.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/where-are-the-most-psychopaths-states-serial-kille-13008128.php
A person has to pass a psychological evaluation test before they can become a park ranger. But, any smooth-talking conman who can con enough people can become president, and not even take a drug test. #TweakerTrump
A lawsuit alleges that immigrant children have been injected with drugs against their will by employees at detention centers.
https://www.sfgate.com/national/article/Immigrant-children-forcibly-injected-with-drugs-13011053.php
A Texas company that houses children detained at the border has been repeatedly accused of mistreating children. The current filing appends an ongoing class-action lawsuit against the company, which earns millions of dollars from the Federal government.
The drugs, such as antipsychotic medications, were administered to pacify and incapacitate the children.
The facility should not use these drugs to control behavior. That’s not what antipsychotics should be used for.
That’s like the old Soviet Union used to do.
Putin's Puto, Donald Trump, is once again doing Putin's bidding.
Employees of Shiloh Treatment Center were given wide latitude in administering variable doses of a large number of different drugs.
One child was prescribed 10 different shots and pills, including the antipsychotic drugs Latuda, Geodon and Olanzapine, the Parkinson’s medication Benztropine, the seizure medications Clonazepam and Divalproex, the nerve pain medication and antidepressant Duloxetine, and the cognition enhancer Guanfacine.
It sounds like Trump's White House physician buddy, Ronny "Candy Man" Jackson, has been reassigned to the child detention centers near the Mexican border. And his job is to put the children into drug-induced comas to reduce the company's need to pay for expensive supervision.
Last Fall, Ivanka Trump told the Associated Press:
"There's a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I've yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims' accounts."
Ivanka's father exploited, abused and tormented children for political purposes, trying to coerce Democrats into voting for his border wall. Trump repeatedly lied about it, and tried to blame it all on the Democrats. The only reason Trump changed his border policy was the bad press, with audio and video of the tormented children, made him look bad.
Why isn't Ivanka condemning her father to that special place in hell?
It's because she is a chip off the old blockhead: a hypocritical moral relativist, a glib and superficially charming sociopath, a greedy narcissist, and an opportunistic liar.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2018 - 01:21am PT
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Trump Aces The Hare Psychopathy Checklist.
I believe this checklist appeared here earlier, but I came across it again, and it now seems even more appropriate to demonstrate that Donald Trump is a malignant psychopath.
They have sadistic motives and intents
A psychopath motivates others through fear, rather than respect, and they intend to destroy rather than correct.
Trump continually abuses and ridicules people, as on Twitter. A key element of his presidential campaign was to viciously attack the character and/or appearance of others. At his rallies, he called for people to physically attack anyone who didn't support him. Trump's border policy for splitting up families was sadistic. His cancellation of the Paris Accords, the Pacific Rim agreement and the Iranian nuclear deal were destructive, not corrective moves. Trump has professed admiration for Vladimir Putin, Rodrigo Duterte, and Kim Jong-Un, all of whom are notoriously sadistic despots that regularly kill political enemies and detractors, often with bizarre methods, such as exotic poisons, wild dogs or cannons.
They're glib and constantly turn on the superficial charm
Psychopaths are masters at presenting themselves well.
Trump is obsessed with his image. He will say whatever he thinks his current audience wants to hear. He will spin fabricated stories of complete lies, with superficial charm, to beguile and bewitch an audience. He makes nonsensical, or even dangerous, statements, and then claims that he was joking.
They have a grandiose estimation of self
Trump is the king of grandiose estimation of self. Even if he has absolutely no experience in a particular field, such as the military, he declares himself to be the #1 expert in the world. He has made grandiose and delusional claims about his mastery of nuclear weapons, international negotiations and trade agreements. "I, alone, can fix it" is how he boasted about being able to address the nation's problems.
They're a pathological liar
Unlike normal people, psychopaths don't care if their lies are found out, because they can just lie again to cover up their previous lies.
Trump's lying is so common, it has become his normal mode of communication. He will lie about anything, even if there is no benefit to anyone. Trump's lying is so pervasive, anything he says must be considered false until proven true. His lying is so pathological, he commands his staff to reinforce his lies with their own lies.
They don't think the rules apply to them
Psychopaths are notorious for flaunting societal norms and rules.
Trump has broken so many rules and agreements, he has been the subject of well over 1000 lawsuits. He has been sued on both coasts by communities after he has flaunted local zoning laws. The lobby of Trump Tower is a public space, but Trump removed a public bench to install his MAGA hat kiosks; NYC sued him to put the bench back. Trump Tower has 58 floors, but Trump says the top floor is the 68th. He said he could "shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, and not lose any votes".
As president, he has declared that he is not beholden to the usual rules, like releasing tax returns, or divesting himself from financial conflicts of interest. He stated that, "I have the absolute power to pardon myself", which is a restatement of "The rules don't apply to me."
They live a parasitic lifestyle
Psychopaths are single-minded: They think only of themselves and what they want to accomplish — like a parasite.
"They're going to live their life and do and say and behave the way they want to behave without any consideration for others," Faas said.
Trump's entire business life has comprised cheating, not paying his contractors, using bankruptcy to escape his debts, and getting other people to fund his projects, from which he parasitizes a portion for himself. He was sued by banquet waitresses at the Trump SoHo tower for stealing their tips. A dishwasher at his Doral golf course had to sue him to be paid his meager wages.
Trump uses the office of the president to enrich himself, such as the $500 million that China invested in his Indonesian golf resort project. He continually violates the emoluments clause of the Constitution, by using his Trump D.C. Hotel to host foreign leaders seeking to curry favor with him. Trump overused his presidential travel privileges so much, flying to Florida almost every weekend, that the Secret Service's entire yearly budget for him was exhausted by September.
They are cunning and manipulative
Faas likes to say that psychopaths are masters of three things: manipulation, deflection, and deception, all of which help them keep "number one" — themselves — above water.
"They're very apt to accept credit for something when it goes right, but when something goes wrong, they look for a scapegoat to deflect it to and take the blame," he said.
Trump attempts to manipulate the news environment by praising Fox, but calling all others "fake news". He attempts to take credit for anything that makes him look good, regardless of what caused it to happen (e.g. the economy was "great" two days after his inauguration, because of what he did). He is quick to redirect blame to others when things go badly (e.g. he blamed the Democrats for his disastrous border policy of separating families). Trump intentionally attempts to deflect public attention away from his own unsavory behavior (e.g. the Stormy Daniels debacle). He continually deceives his listeners with his non-stop lies.
They had early behavioral problems
Faas said that adult psychopaths were most likely bullies on the playground.
Trump was a monster as a child. He physically attacked a music teacher when he was ten years old, hitting the man in the face.
Trump's father shipped him off to a military-themed reform school when he was about 14 years old. John Gotti's son was sent to the same reform school, but not at the same time. Trump's New York Military Academy has graduated only a few career military officers. A real military academy, like the Citadel, graduates a large number of career military officers.
The reform school that Trump attended for about four years was a juvenile hall for rich kids. Trump was a juvenile delinquent, and he is now an adult delinquent.
They don't feel emotions like normal people
Psychopaths can effectively mimic emotional responses, writes Psychology Today's Dr. Scott Bonn. However, they cannot sincerely feel them.
Trump mimics whatever his audience is doing. He mirrors a crowd, and tells them what they want to hear. He lies insincerely about emotional issues, as when he said that "thousands and thousands" of parents of Korean War soldiers begged him to repatriate their sons' remains. Those imaginary people in Trump's false narrative, if alive, would be at well over 100 years old. Trump's border policy of separating children from their parents involved zero compassion or empathy for those affected - Trump used the children as political pawns without any regard for how it affected them.
Their long-term goals are not realistic
Even though psychopaths struggle to accomplish their own grandiose goals for themselves because they are bad planners, they expect others to rise to the occasion, according to Hare.
"Though the task may be impossible to do, psychopaths justify it because, in their limited view, it's a reasonable goal," Faas said.
Trump's plan for a border wall is one example of this. Others would be the Trump Shuttle, the Trump casinos and numerous failed Trump construction projects. Trump is so bad at attaining goals himself, he has shifted to a business model of licensing his name to others as a marketing gimmick.
Trump's failure to revamp national healthcare is a more recent example. He talked and boasted about how his (unspecified, but "great") plan would provide healthcare for everyone, at a low, low price. NONE of that came to pass.
His travel bans, family separation policy and import tariff policy have been total disasters. All three are in the process of being eliminated after causing considerable anxiety and chaos for the U.S. and other nations.
They show no remorse or guilt
The psychopathic tendency to not care about the consequences of their actions, no matter how badly they affect others, can be linked to their "remarkable ability to rationalize their behavior," according to Hare.
While their friends and family may be physically or emotionally hurt by the psychopath's actions, he or she will typically just deflect the blame with excuses or flat-out deny it.
Trump stated that he had no need for religious forgiveness, because he never does anything wrong. When he signed the Executive Order reversing his policy of separating children from their parents at the border, he significantly did not admit it was a mistake, or express remorse that he had exploited, abused and tormented thousands of innocent children and their parents. Trump doesn't say, "I'm sorry" - he blames others for his mistakes.
They have a scary temper
Don't get fooled by the charming veneer. Hare writes in Psychology Today that psychopaths are incredibly short-tempered. The smallest thing can set them off into a rage. Watch out for the person who freaks out about everything in the office — no matter how minor.
Trump's temper is legendary among White House staff. He once yelled at Hope Hicks, because she didn't bring a portable clothing iron onto his airplane. Trump's repeated Twitter Tantrums indicate just how easily he becomes enraged.
They can't commit
Hare's checklist includes both promiscuous sexual behavior and multiple short-term marital relationships as signs of psychopathy.
Three marriages, and at least as many extra-marital affairs, indicate Trump's level of commitment to his wives. Trump's commitment to business associates is transactional, and he will quickly abandon other people when they no longer serve his purpose. His loyalty to Steve Bannon, for example, disappeared immediately after Bannon's quotes about the White House were published.
They're often bored
Psychopaths are notoriously impulsive novelty-seeks, and always on the look-out for the next rush.
Trump is so easily bored, aides must specially prepare materials for him that are short, have pictures and diagrams, and Trump's name inserted as frequently as possible to keep him interested. When an aide attempted to describe the Constitution to Trump, a few minutes into the presentation, "his eyes rolled back into his head". Trump doesn't have the patience for details. His attention span is so short, he wants a few quick words on a subject, and then he declares himself the best expert in the world. Trump watches hours and hours of television each day, because it amuses him.
White House aides said that the reason Trump met with Kim Jong-Un was because he was bored.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
The Ocean
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Jun 21, 2018 - 03:44am PT
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@IvankaTrump
Follow Follow @IvankaTrump
More
Thank you @POTUS for taking critical action ending family separation at our border. Congress must now act + find a lasting solution that is consistent with our shared values;the same values that so many come here seeking as they endeavor to create a better life for their families
Sad on so many levels but the saddest level is that of the abused family member.
It's almost cliche how the abused will thank their abuser when given some small relief from abuse.
Her programming is very strong.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 06:49am PT
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...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jun 21, 2018 - 07:34am PT
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This is who they are and how they feel.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 21, 2018 - 08:00am PT
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Can you even tell us all what a “libtard” is Cosmic?
it's been eleven hours, and he is still trying to figure that out.
rump's kidnapping of babies will likely put some fuel into the Mueller investigation, that along with cohen feeling neglected and ready to chirp like a rat is going to spell trouble to the already doomed presidency, so rump figures it is best to pull the plug on the hostage situation to try and take off some heat. and your golf game is going to take a hit if you are always having to look over your shoulder for snipers while trying to make a putt, i am sure that some of the mothers of the kidnapped babies know people who know people, heck, some of the waiters i used to do after hours tequila sampling with at Fiesta del Mar in mt view ca were connected to Caro Quintero, just ask Jorge, Felimon, Gilberto,
I'm sure MS13 has been paying attention.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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Why I think (fear) Ivanka Trump might be our first female president...
"Thank you @POTUS for taking critical action ending family separation at our border. Congress must now act + find a lasting solution that is consistent with our shared values;the same values that so many come here seeking as they endeavor to create a better life for their families. -Ivanka tweet"
No doubt some irony here: Thank you @POTUS...
Another...
“Those who say it can not be done, should not interrupt those doing it.”
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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The "Bernie Story" was amplified, just as Trump's was, by RU botnets. As was Jill Stein's.
This much, we know is true.
Yes, it has been shown true.
They were ALL amplified to cause disenfranchisement within this country from Hillary Clinton. For FX sake - were she a man, people may not have "liked" him, but they would have clearly recognized "he" was the best choice as a pick, considering where we are in the world right now. They KNEW it would be easy to sway people who were "unsure a woman could handle the job." And make no mistake - that is absolutely the way a large percentage of people, of all genders, think. Had HRC had a little bit of Sarah Palin sensuality, she might have been "accepted."
"Free college?" Give me damned BREAK. As my dad used to say: Bend over, grab your ears, pull your head out of your a$$, and take a look around.
ALL that is going on right now was in situ during the campaign, and most of us are too unthinking to have recognized it. I said - often - that HRC was the only candidate who could possibly remain on her feet after the dance number coming up. Bernie Sanders, much as I agree with his ideology, could NOT have negotiated the game play coming. And Trump - well, he's handed the ball right over while pretending he actually knows what he's doing and doing it intentionally.
Let's stop this arguing over what "might have been," because - THAT is over and done with.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 21, 2018 - 09:09am PT
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very well stated, happiegrrrl
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 09:26am PT
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Yes, thank you.
While it is nice to be able to make a statement now and then by voting outside the mainstream, what we need right now is political muscle to oppose the right wing. The only viable path to get that is through the Democratic Party. There is no other way. We often forget that elections are about deciding who gets political power. No one cares about statements.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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Yes.
This is why Ivanka becoming first female POTUS instead of HRC would be so very disgusting.
Imo.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 21, 2018 - 09:51am PT
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"Free college?" Give me damned BREAK. As my dad used to say: Bend over, grab your ears, pull your head out of your a$$, and take a look around.
Guess your dad didn't look at California.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 21, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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Happie wrote: “. For FX sake - were she a man, people may not have "liked" him, but they would have clearly recognized "he" was the best choice as a pick, considering where we are in the world right now”
the above is a verrrrry dubious claim:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[and for those that havent seen this or have forgotten: those are actors with swapped genders who memorized trump and hillary’s exact words and body language and repeated all of it verbatim, as it happened during one of the debates]
all i know is i’m starting to understand why this mueller investigation is so important to the diehard msm narrative swallowing libs: it really is your only current hope.
as it stands right now, if a large enough number of the dem supporters continue to have their heads stuck firmly up their afore mentioned asses, then i look forward to making money betting against the dems once again in a couple more years [thats assuming trump can survive mueller and the dems throw another “high” quality dinosaur type candidate - biden, bernie, maybe hillary again? - into the mix...]
only difference is that if the above plays out, it won’t be the coin flip that it was last time...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
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Those tweets by Trump supporters show that Trump's malignant disease of the mind is highly contagious among his base. They are the same people, four generations removed, who attacked people at the behest of Adolph Hitler.
Michael Cohen changed lawyer in preparation of flipping on Trump. Then, he publicly called on Trump to pay his legal bills. Then, he tried to sound compassionate about children being taken from their parents at the border.
Cohen is boxed in, and is confused about what he should do.
He is dead meat. His only hope is to become Mueller Meat, to avoid becoming maggot meat in prison.
Trump is so stupid, he allowed Stephen Miller to come up with a deranged border policy that enraged the entire planet. Stephen Miller is Trump's Secretary of Offense, and is Trump's go-to guy for immigration policy. Miller is one of the last holdovers from Trump's original gang of goons.
Here is the logic behind Miller's border policy:
There is an existing policy for unaccompanied minors who cross the border.
When parents are arrested and put in jail, their children are taken from them.
Children who are taken from their parents at the border become "unaccompanied minors".
The newly-minted unaccompanied minors are put into cages, or shipped cross-country to foster homes.
Miller can be seen on video, while running for high school president, complaining that he has to pick up his own trash, when there are janitors that should do it for him.
Next, Trump will assign Miller to head up his Space Force team. Which is ironic, because the border policy irritated Melania so much, Trump will be subsisting on Astrolube for a long time.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Jun 21, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
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climbski2
Mountain climber
The Ocean
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Jun 21, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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Melania Trump actually visited the border today wearing a jacket that says in big bold letters across the back
"I really don't care.. do you?"
TRUE!
“It’s a jacket. There was no hidden message,” her spokesperson, Stephanie Grisham, told the Cut in an email when asked for comment. “After today’s important visit to Texas, I hope the media isn’t going to choose to focus on her wardrobe.”
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Yep not hidden at all.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
The Ocean
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Jun 21, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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College...Good investment in human capitol!!???... ohh..f that..
I want more cruise missiles and fragile advanced fighters to replace the fighters we have that are already superior to the threats we face.
C'mon it's not like we pick fights with anyone we cant shoot with a cargo plane..
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 21, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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True^^^
Yeah , we want generational oligarchy,not cures for disease or the next big idea.
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Trump
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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Impressive psychoanalysis and psychological diagnosis of me, Tom! Are you a psychiatrist, or do you just play one on the Internet? Me, I really am president of the United States. Sorry about that.
I like the way that when people want me to be lying, they believe I’m lying, and that I’m doing it as some immoral political negotiating strategy.
But when they want me to be telling the truth, they trick themselves into believing that I really do believe the lies I tell in my liar strategy, and I really do believe that I think that that I’m the #1 expert in the world, or that my wall isn’t just a negotiating strategy of asking for more than I expect to get. Chumps. Let’s see them get elected president of the US, or even president of the internet.
Heck when a strategy isn’t working, I stop using it! I thought crying children would work to my political advantage, but now that it doesn’t, I stopped! Let me know when lying stops working for me - I’m sure you’ve convinced yourself that you’ll be able to tell.
Some people invest a lot of time in this game. Ok. Me, I got the presidency out of it. You? It’s not quite as satisfying to do psychiatry on ourselves, at least if we don’t lie to ourselves about it.
But godspeed!, people are good at believing lies. Don’t blame me, I just work here. Or blame me, if that’s how you work.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 21, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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Obama was a panty waste
the way he sold out the people who elected him
the people who believe he would push policys which matched his rhetoric
rather than backpedal EVERY one of them...
oh my, another well informed and powerful intellect utters vague emotionalism
why one would think a "conservatard" was posting
make your case Xcon, tell us exactly how "President" Obama to you, asswipe,
was a "panty waste" and "sold out"
lots of huckleberries here for you, boo boo
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Trump
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 05:07pm PT
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You had me at “lawsuit”. I like to stay on top of alleged information.
I think Jesus had some things to say about inherent goodness too.
Obama and my daughter have inherent blackness, but society treats them the way we do, one way or the other, regardless. That kind of inherent thing is just easier to see. But nothing works as well to dispaly our own inherent goodness as calling out other people’s ignorant dipshittery. Or blackness.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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Lame
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john hansen
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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You know, if they are worried about keeping track of the children and their
parents they could just tattoo identical numbers on their fore arm's..
OK umm.. I guess that didn't work out so well last time..
And yes I am being sarcastic.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin "Naughty-No-No" Netanyahu just LOVES Jared Kushner. Kushner led the charge to change the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a move that showcased the Trump Administration's clear and present preference for a pro-Israeli policy, to the detriment of any sort of Peace Process. The U.S. pulled out of the United Nations Human Rights Council yesterday, in furtherance of an Israel-first foreign policy.
Jared Kushner is over there, right now, working on the Peace Process. It is entirely possible that his work comprises attempting to seize the Dome of the Rock, the site of a previous temple, from the Muslims. The Trump Administration works in mysterious ways.
In order for Israel and the U.S. to keep up appearances, and not disappoint their supporters, Naughty-No-No's wife has been indicted for defrauding her government out of more than $100,000. The corpulent Sara Netanyahu had the government pay for the most expensive chefs to prepare the most decadent and extravagant foods, typically the reproductive organs of barely extant species.
MEGA = Make Excess Great Again
https://www.sfgate.com/world/article/Israeli-prime-minister-s-wife-indicted-on-fraud-13014934.php
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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Can't disagree that the Obama administration's lame response to the widespread fraud of the great recession was a colossal mistake... A real head scratcher.
GHW Bush (for the savings and loan crisis) and even Bush junior( for the tech bubble fraud) both seemed far more willing to go after financial industry criminality.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 21, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
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You know if they are worried about keeping track of the children and their
parents they could just tattoo identical numbers on their forarm's..
OK umm.. I guess that didn't work out so well last time..
And yes I am being sarcastic.
our old friend FATRAD seems to speak highly of the concept of gathering these folks all together in camps, much like he expertly knows the Warsaw Ghetto.
It makes the next step so much easier......
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 21, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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Can't disagree that the Obama administration's lame response to the widespread fraud of the great recession was a colossal mistake... A real head scratcher.
GHW Bush (for the savings and loan crisis) and even Bush junior( for the tech bubble fraud) both seemed far more willing to go after financial industry criminality.
I think Obama was highly sensitive to the appearance of using the gov't to attack his opponents, and how that would be seen. Trump has totally blown a hole in that.
Also, it is important to understand his upbringing in Hawaii, where they have a different approach to political disagreements, not found in any other state. It is actually enshrined in the "Aloha Spirit Law", and taken seriously.
"from Chapter 5 of Hawaiʻi Revised Statutes:
§ 5-7.5 "Aloha Spirit". (a) "Aloha Spirit" is the coordination of mind and heart within each person. It brings each person to the self. Each person must think and emote good feelings to others. In the contemplation and presence of the life force, "Aloha", the following unuhi laulā loa may be used:
"Akahai", meaning kindness to be expressed with tenderness;
"Lōkahi", meaning unity, to be expressed with harmony;
"ʻOluʻolu" meaning agreeable, to be expressed with pleasantness;
"Haʻahaʻa", meaning humility, to be expressed with modesty;
"Ahonui", meaning patience, to be expressed with perseverance.
These are traits of character that express the charm, warmth and sincerity of Hawaii's people. It was the working philosophy of native Hawaiians and was presented as a gift to the people of Hawaiʻi. ''Aloha'' is more than a word of greeting or farewell or a salutation. ''Aloha'' means mutual regard and affection and extends warmth in caring with no obligation in return. "Aloha" is the essence of relationships in which each person is important to every other person for collective existence. ''Aloha'' means to hear what is not said, to see what cannot be seen and to know the unknowable.
(b) In exercising their power on behalf of the people and in fulfillment of their responsibilities, obligations and service to the people, the legislature, governor, lieutenant governor, executive officers of each department, the chief justice, associate justices, and judges of the appellate, circuit, and district courts may contemplate and reside with the life force and give consideration to the "Aloha Spirit". [L 1986, c 202, § 1]
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
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The 2008 financial crisis was developed according to Mafia principles: isolate the ringleaders (i capi) from the mundane, day-to-day operations. The ringleaders avoid communicating, even verbally, so as to not leave an evidence trail that leads to them. Some, like Lehman Brothers' CEO Richard "Dickhead" Fuld, followed the example of Genovese crime family boss Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, and feigned insanity to avoid prosecution.
When the Feds came calling at the Wall Street companies, their ladders to the top topped out at low-level street soldiers, like Fabrice "Fabulous Fab" Tourre. Fabrice's boss, Goldman Sachs capo Lloyd "Left-Eye" Blankfein, denied all knowledge of his own existence before Congress, and was never prosecuted.
Left-Eye Blankfein is planning to retire as capo of the Goldman Sachs crime family at the end of the year. He will join Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonanno and Meyer "The Brain" Lansky in the rare pantheon of gangsters who were able to retire from their criminal careers intact, walking away with millions.
During the 2008 financial crisis, Henry "Hank" Paulson acted as the Capo di Tutti Capi ("the Leader of all the Leaders") and represented the other capos of the financial crime syndicate in their business with the government. For Paulson's role in obtaining a $700 billion payoff from the government, he was secretly inducted into La Societŕ de Luciano, the highest honor that a mastermind criminal can attain in America. La Societŕ de Luciano was named after Charles "Lucky" Luciano, who first established a coherent organized crime syndicate in the United States.
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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"I think Obama was highly sensitive to the appearance of using the gov't to attack his opponents, and how that would be seen"
I think you're right, but we're a nation of laws. They should have been enforced.
I think the appearance of going soft on Wall Street was by far the worse option, because it re-inforced an already widespread impression that laws don't apply to the rich and politically connected.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 21, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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Interesting turn in topics,As if something is coming.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 21, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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"OK I've had enough, what else can you show me"?
Charles Krauthammer, a former psychiatrist and self-described Great Society Democrat who metamorphosed into one of the nation’s most cogent conservative voices as a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist and television commentator, died on Thursday. He was 68.
While Mr. Krauthammer continually extolled Ronald Reagan (he ranked him No. 2 among 20th-century presidents, behind Franklin D. Roosevelt) and belittled Barack Obama’s record, he could criticize his fellow neoconservatives and Republicans just as fiercely as he skewered liberal Democrats.
Aligning himself with most conservatives, Mr. Krauthammer was gung-ho about going to war with Iraq in 2003, arguing for replacing Saddam Hussein with a democratic government, and he expressed few compunctions about torturing suspected terrorists.
But he also took a more liberal line in favoring the continued legalization of abortion, looser restrictions on stem cell research, abolition of the death penalty and, as an avowed Zionist, a two-state solution to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
If you're going to Pittsburgh, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.
-Jesse James
A 17-year-old boy in East Pittsburgh is dead after being shot three times in the back by an officer who had been sworn into the police department just hours earlier.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 21, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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so "Xcon" relies on the Black Agenda Report, a radio "opinion" program for his "proofs" for his own personal opinion that President Obama was a "panty waste the way he sold out the people who elected him"
not good enough, too vague, disappointing
seriously, in a panic to support your own "opinion" a half second google search?
gonna graduate high school next year?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 21, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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only an idiot would not realize a 21 foot ladder defeats a 20 foot wall
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climbski2
Mountain climber
The Ocean
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Jun 21, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
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Below propaganda... might just be semi true
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2018 - 11:50pm PT
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There is a net efflux of illegal immigrants across the Mexican border. In other words, more Mexican rapists are leaving the country, than MS-13 toddlers-in-training are coming in.
The first chapter of Trump's playbook is:
Disinformation and Deceit: people are stupid, so exploit their stupidity.
This is not your grandparents' Warren Commission investigation.
In other words, Robert Mueller is intent, competent, thorough and tenacious in his pursuit of the evidence that will reveal what did, or did not, occur.
Robert Mueller is a great American hero, who is not allowing all the noise to distract him. His work is of the utmost importance to the security of the United States. He is investigating a hostile foreign power that sought to pervert the course of our electoral system.
Anyone who disparages his work, especially before the results are known, is at best stupid, and possibly a traitorous co-conspirator.
This Russian investigation THING is not going away. Yelling at a hurricane will not prevent its onslaught.
Like a pregnant woman at 8.7 months, the Mueller investigation's gestation period has almost run its course.
Forget the OctaMom, who gave birth to eight children.
Robert Mueller looks to be the IcosaMan, giving birth to twenty indictments.
Like the birth pangs of a woman in labor, the difficult and painful events leading up to the denouement will come faster and faster.
Live Through This
Courtney Love
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2018 - 02:20am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The people who voted for Trump should have to answer for what they have done.
For me, fascinated by the ancient Roman Empire, I can envision Stephen Miller in a child-sized cage, being drawn past 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, to be heckled and egg-pelted by the Peoples of the United States of America.
But, that is not the American way.
The American way is that different policies can exist. When policies are shown to be against the public interest, those policies cease to to be valid.
But, the people who championed those invalid policies are allowed to exist.
That is the American way.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 22, 2018 - 06:54am PT
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So exhausted from winning...
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 22, 2018 - 07:11am PT
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ground chuck- it's maddeningly obvious that there exists a 25% swath right down the center of our country, in humanity really, that are prewired to be objects of manipulation by fear, agression and ultimately retribution.
What lies beneath a very few of our friends, neighbors and family who, on the surface are friendly and caring people is intellectuall incuriousness, fundamental distrust and a yearning to be empowered by association with an authority figure. In high functioning societies they lie in wait, often industrious and happy. Inevitably, as in all societies, when discord and fear rise from any multitude of circumstance, they becomes susceptible.
The mere existence of this minority personality type proves that, in times of extreme instability within small family units or larger societies, this set of emotional responses has served a useful purpose in our survival as a species.
Throughout history this 25% have readily followed great leaders and helped to fundamentally changed the world- this is the exception however. More often than not, they have aided and abetted cultish despots and murderers. And throughout history when the carnage, havoc and annihilation is in full swing they put on their blinders and continue to attack any dissent. This is their purpose and they will not deviate. Rest assured in the aftermath of total failure they will blame the weak, the intellectuals and the peoples of questionable breeding.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 22, 2018 - 08:18am PT
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...it's maddeningly obvious that there exists a 25% swath....
blah blah blah....
Stop listening to MSM. It's rotting your brain.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 22, 2018 - 08:21am PT
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ground chuck- it's maddeningly obvious that there exists a 25% swath right down the center of our country, in humanity really, that are prewired to be objects of manipulation by fear, agression and ultimately retribution.
this is what I don't understand.
why are Americans(white primarily) so damned paranoid?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 22, 2018 - 08:30am PT
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Stop listening to MSM. It's rotting your brain.
The classic response that assumes we all disseminate our information through cable news.
Do you evade historical context or simply don't understand it?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 22, 2018 - 10:23am PT
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Winning is so much fun...
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Jun 22, 2018 - 10:28am PT
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The first chapter of Trump's playbook is:
Disinformation and Deceit: people are stupid, so exploit their stupidity.
I was thinking of how he projects his own nefariousness on to other people, and how the corollary to the above statment might be:
"I'm stupid, therefore people are stupid."
Just spitballin' here...
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 22, 2018 - 11:06am PT
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Gene, TFPU! That was funny, in a strange sort of way. Sad!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 22, 2018 - 11:23am PT
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The nonprofit, Southwest Key Programs Inc., is to be paid more than $458 million in fiscal 2018, according to the data — the most among the organizations, government agencies and companies that run a detention and care system for immigrant children on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services. Southwest Key has about a dozen facilities in Texas, including a site at a former WalMart Inc. store in Brownsville that has drawn attention from members of Congress and national news organizations. […]
Southwest Key rapidly increased the compensation of its CEO, Juan Sanchez, from about $269,000 in 2010 to more than $786,000 in 2015, the most recent year for which its tax returns are available through the website Guidestar.org. His compensation nearly doubled to $1.5 million in 2016, according to tax records for an Austin charter school he founded.
President Donald Trump told Congress in a letter on Friday that North Korea’s “provocative, destabilizing, and repressive actions...continue to constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat” to the United States. The letter, which notes the country’s “pursuit of nuclear and missile programs,” comes just over a week after Trump boasted on Twitter that there “is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” “Everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office,” he said. Trump told Congress in the letter that he plans to extend the national emergency with respect to North Korea and the restrictions it imposes—which were put in place under George W. Bush in 2008 and amended multiple times since—for at least one additional year.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 22, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
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Outstanding Gene!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 22, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
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The white people are paranoid because they fear losing their status as the majority ethnic group in America.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean you aren't correct.
White males have lost a substantial amount of white, male privilege in the last 10 or 20 years and they are right in thinking that it isn't finished.
And the biggest driver of populist angst is economic insecurity. Anti-immigration sentiment is, in general, tied more to economic conditions than it is to the actual number of immigrants.
I don't see anything on the horizon that is going to make things better. It appears that an ever greater population, across all income levels, are going to, correctly, fear economic insecurity.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 22, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
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White dudes are not paranoid...Their andrenal glands are drained from all that winning...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 22, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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The reason for the president’s reversal was those elections. Polls show the GOP electorate is split on immigration. Even among Republicans over the age of 50, over 40 percent oppose President Trump’s actions on family separation.
Control of the House of Representatives will be determined by election results in suburban congressional districts with large numbers of highly educated voters that are now represented by Republicans. With some exceptions, such as in Minnesota, the key races that will determine which party wins a House majority will not be fought in the blue-collar, populist districts that swung from Barack Obama to Donald Trump in 2016.
The generic vote for Congress is close. A tough policy on immigration may bring out President Trump’s base to vote, but the public relations disaster of family separations threatened to drive suburban voters – especially women – to the Democrats.
“Somehow I don’t think that putting kids in cages is likely to go over very well with suburban moms,” Whit Ayres, a Republican pollster, told The Atlantic magazine.
Trump aides hope that by now combining tough rhetoric on issues such as sanctuary cities with ducking a bruising political battle in Congress, they will thread the needle and allow Republicans to keep the House.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jun 22, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
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Does a bear sh#t in the woods?
Is the Pope Catholic?
Is trump a liar?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 22, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
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Are the Kennedy’s gun shy.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 22, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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+1 DMT
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 22, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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The really sad thing is the tRump supporters lack of understanding, or disregard, for the Constitution. They are SO patriotic until the Constitution becomes inconvenient.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 22, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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So conservatives say we should help the people in this country first. I am fine with that, but the all lives matter crowd says everyone's life matters.
In regards to helping people in this country, I haven't heard a peep from the trump administration about helping the homeless. I haven't heard the administration say anything about helping Native Americans. Oh,and what about the people in Flint?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 22, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
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In regards to helping people in this country, I haven't heard a peep from the trump administration about helping the homeless. I haven't heard the administration say anything about helping Native Americans. Oh,and what about the people in Flint?
All true. But how many peeps did you hear from the Obama administration about helping the homeless, the native Americans, or the people in whatever that era's version of Flint?
Or the Cheney Administration? Or the Clinton Administration? Or the Bush Administration?
Read Dingus' post above, and wake up.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 22, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Isn’t it really nice to have the authority to create a situation that can only distract said scared people.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 22, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
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A significant number of those homeless are VETS!
Did trump serve?
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 22, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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All true. But how many peeps did you hear from the Obama administration about helping the homeless, the native Americans, or the people in whatever that era's version of Flint?
Or the Cheney Administration? Or the Clinton Administration? Or the Bush Administration?
Read Dingus' post above, and wake up.
my comment is about the trump administration. btw, I am wide awake.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 22, 2018 - 10:14pm PT
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I'd much prefer visions of the future to fears of the past, from the folks for whom I would like to vote. Sell the vision and to hell with the fear mongering.
Corrupt politicians, major wars, billions of dollars in damages from floods, earthquakes, air and water pollution, economic insecurity, partisan politics, financial crisis that cause millions to lose their jobs, and so. ..
I've got incredibly great news. That is all in the past. Don't worry, be happy. Everything is going to be roses and you even get to set a new speed record on ElCap.
Can I have your vote now?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 22, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
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Fear and insecurity is hardly limited to one socio-economic group or demographic. And fear mongering is hardly limited to one political party All fear is not created equal. This is most evident in the reaction to fear- in the reaction lies the danger.
The coping mechanisms for targeted and manufactured fear intensified by a certain brain chemistry or lack of understanding and context is not equal to or yawn worthy in comparison to how a person that uses deductive reasoning and information gathering to recognize legitimate fears such as locking up children or global warming or trade wars or colluding with hostile governments or supporting crazy fuking presidents.
Global warming is not a punch line and there is no equivalency here.
Or what August said, more or less.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 23, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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Russian bots are still hard at work for tRump on FB. I had a couple of tRump supporter friends looking a little sheepish after posting Russian propaganda.
Three in the last two days with misinformation exonerating tRump for the child separation at the border.
It is pretty easy to spot, and can be verified with minimal research.
Both sides are still getting played by the Russians. I try not repost anything until I verify the source.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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Did trump serve?
During the election, Trump claimed to be the world's #1 military guy, because he spent his high school years incarcerated at a military-themed reform school. He received a medal for learning how to fold his own underwear before putting it into a drawer.
Trump claimed that he was almost recruited to play professional baseball, because he was THE BEST while at the reform school. Shortly thereafter, a doctor falsified a document claiming Trump had "bone spurs" that disqualified him from military service.
Trump told Howard Stern that a lifetime of screwing anything on two or four legs, and not getting AIDS, was his "own personal Vietnam".
The Trump Administration is selectively exempting some U.S. companies from paying tariffs on imported aluminum and steel.
Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross is deciding, on a case-by-case basis, which companies get the favorable treatment.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/us/politics/trump-tariff-waivers.html
Trump claims that he is "fine-tuning" his import tariff policy.
Earlier this year, Trump "fine-tuned" an import policy for Chinese cellphones after Trump's golf resort received a $500 million payment from the Chinese government. Immediately after the payment was announced, Trump cancelled an import ban on Chinese ZTE spyware cellphones that are a threat to national security. Trump promised to reopen the ZTE factory, put the workers back to work, and to Make China Great Again.
Applying for an exemption from tariffs on imported aluminum or steel is a complex, time-consuming process. The decision basically comes down to whether a domestic aluminum or steel company objects to a given application. Wilbur Ross, whose family has large holdings in domestic aluminum and steel companies, has given authority over tariff exemptions to his industry cronies.
“This is the most screwed-up process,” said Mark Mullen, president of Griggs Steel, a steel distributor in the Detroit area. “This is a disservice to our industry and the biggest insult to our intelligence that I have ever seen from the government.”
The primary criterion for granting a tariff exemption is whether or not there is a domestic substitute for an imported material. Price difference is not a valid basis for an exemption, according to Wilbur Ross. In other words, the specific intent of the Trump tariff policy to increase manufacturing costs of American goods made from aluminum and steel.
Vladimir Putin's economic sanctions on American businesses are beginning to show the results that he wants.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/us/politics/donald-trump-tariffs-trade-war.html
The economy is booming, but (Mid Continent Nail Corporation) is not reaping the benefits. Instead, as a result of Mr. Trump’s trade policies, (Mid Continent) may soon be out of business.
Mid Continent, the largest American producer of nails, imports steel from Mexico to make its nails. That steel is now subject to the 25 percent tariffs that Mr. Trump imposed on dozens of countries, forcing Mid Continent to raise its prices by nearly 20 percent.
Orders have plummeted by 50 percent this month as the company tries to compete with cheaper foreign-made nails. Those foreign manufacturers are not facing higher steel costs, giving them an advantage over Mid Continent.
The company, which employs about 500 workers, has already cut 60 jobs - . It could potentially cut 200 more in the coming weeks.
That one example, for a very simple product, shows just how stupid Trump is. Either that, or he is doing Putin's bidding and intentionally sabotaging the U.S. economy. #TraitorTrump
Trump's next move to "fine-tune" his import tariff policy might be to put a 20% tariff on imported nails, so that Mid Continent's nail prices are again competitive. But, that would mean that users of nails will have to raise their prices to compensate for their higher costs.
So, wooden crates made in America will be more expensive than cheaper, imported crates that are made with cheaper nails. Trump will then "fine-tune" his import tariff policy and put a tariff on imported wooden crates.
But, products that are shipped in wooden crates will have higher prices, to compensate for higher production costs. American-made machinery that is shipped in wooden crates will cost more than imported machinery. Trump will "fine-tune" his import tariff policy and put a tariff on imported machinery, to make it as expensive as American machinery.
American companies that use machinery to make various things will have to raise their prices to compensate for their higher operating costs. That will cause the prices of American things to be higher than imported things. Trump will "fine-tune" his import tariff policy and put tariffs on imported things, to make them as expensive as American things. This will raise the cost of living for Americans, and reduce their standard of living.
At the same time, American companies that make things will go out of business, people will be out of work, the American economy will be degraded, and people will be forced into poverty and out of their homes.
Trump's base of support is as stupid as Trump himself. They somehow think Trump can bully other nations into compliance, and there won't be any retaliation. Uneducated, unsophisticated Trump voters believe him to be some sort of magical, or God-like, entity, who can conjure an alternative reality by making absurd statements and acting like the tough guy in high school who is cool because his father bought him a Corvette.
Malcolm Broome, executive director of the Mississippi Peanut Growers Association, said that many of the peanut farmers in his state have been supportive of Mr. Trump’s economic agenda, but that they will be watching carefully to see how he manages the trade negotiations.
“If this can give him some leverage to get a deal made, they’d be all for that,” Mr. Broome said. “If it doesn’t work and he’s miscalculated, then it could be a different story.”
Trump's "leverage" has given those Mississippi morons an EU import tariff on their crops, making Chinese farmers more competitive. Trump is making China great again, which is the "different story" that those idiots didn't see coming when they voted for Trump and his bully-boy bullsh#t.
Like moronic robots, Trump's uneducated base will continue to vote for Republicans because they do whatever Trump tells them to do. When proud, self-sufficient Mississippi peanut farmers go broke because of the EU tariffs, they are confident Trump will tell Congress to bail them out with farm subsidies, which will be paid for by kicking welfare mothers and medicare moochers off the public dole (Mississippians are good Christians who don't believe in socialism).
Trump is an IQ-deflating svengali.
Trump's greatest misconception is that he can run the government the way he ran his construction projects: abuse, then discard, his investors, partners and contractors, because there will always be others that he can abuse and discard later.
When Trump pulled some of his "take it or leave it" art of the deal bullshit with the G6 group, he believed that if they didn't take it, he could simply find a different G6 group that would.
Trump is truly deranged, incompetent and a danger to the nation.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 23, 2018 - 11:36am PT
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Jun 23, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jun 13, 2018 - 09:09am PT
Trump could cure cancer and you lunatics would criticize him for putting morticians out of work.
Very unlikely.
Also very unlikely is that Trump would start sending immigrants to gas chambers and ovens, but if he did, pud would still criticize us for being upset about it, and for not giving Trump his much deserved adulation for putting low emission technologies into the gas chambers and ovens.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The best part of eating at The Red Hen is that the manager drives away crazy Trump people, like Sarah Sanders, so that the diners don't have to do it themselves.
The Red Hen was Yelp-bombed after telling Sanders to leave. The link above https://redhenlex.com will take you to a fake Red Hen webpage. It has so many typos and grammatical errors, it must have come from a Russian bot.
Republicans were aghast - simply aghast! - that a place that sells food would refuse service to someone because of a disagreement in beliefs and behavior.
Sarah Sanders' father, Mike Huckabee, a former Arkansas governor and Republican presidential candidate tweeted:
"Bigotry. On the menu at Red Hen Restaurant in Lexington VA. Or you can ask for the 'Hate Plate,'"
"And appetizers are 'small plates for small minds.'"
Ari Fleischer, who was a press secretary for President George W. Bush, tweeted:
"I guess we're heading into an America with Democrat-only restaurants, which will lead to Republican-only restaurants. Do the fools who threw Sarah out, and the people who cheer them on, really want us to be that kind of country?"
A Republican-only bakery existed first, and a Democrat who wanted a wedding cake was thrown out. The bakery was ruled to be within its rights by the Republican-majority Supreme Court. Republican-only places that sell food are, therefore, totally acceptable to Republicans.
So, why would Republicans now object to a Democrat-only restaurant, a place that sells food?
Because the Republicans want to have their homophobic cake, and eat it, too.
Republicans are hypocritical moral relativists and opportunistic liars:
A Colorado baker who objects to same-sex marriage is a good Republican.
A Virginia restaurant owner who objects to tearing families apart at the border is a bad Democrat.
It is ironic and astonishing that the World's Smartest Guy, and his staff of the Very Best People, are restricted by a shared three-syllable vocabulary, and they completely miss out on big words like REPERCUSSIONS.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 23, 2018 - 06:26pm PT
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Trump supporters expect him to lie and it makes them want to defend him more
: ‘He’s not a perfect guy — he does some stupid stuff’
“It bothers me that he doesn’t tell the truth,” said Julie Knight of Washington. “But I guess I kind of expect that
The people interviewed also repeated lies from Fox News and other outlets—especially when it came to defending Trump’s decision to take small children from their parents and lock them in cages along the border.
“Those cages and those families — that was actually filmed during the Obama administration, not the Trump administration,” said Illinois man Clayton Smith.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
*Trump supporters believe LIES, because they are ignorant
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Denying legal representation and maintaining total secrecy are necessary in the interest of National Security. People would want to kill Trump if they found out what was really going on.
Trump's border debacle could be made into an Eli Roth horror film called:
Abu Ghraib II: Welcome To Summer Camp, Kids.
Except that it's not a film. It's really happening, right now, to real people. And, the Trump Administration is trying to keep everything a secret, so that Trump doesn't look bad. There is very little transparency. Even high-ranking government officials are stonewalled when they attempt to find out what is really going on.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/senator-denied-entry-florida-child-migrant-facility-56018595
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/04/us-senator-denied-entry-to-immigrant-detention-facility-in-texas/
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2018/6/18/1772941/-Congressman-Joe-Kennedy-III-is-refused-Tent-entry-to-check-on-separated-children-in-Texas
https://gizmodo.com/journalists-start-using-drones-to-view-immigrant-detent-1827044608
https://nypost.com/2018/06/21/cuomo-says-about-700-separated-migrant-kids-are-being-held-in-ny/
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/22/andrew-cuomo-ny-gov-says-he-has-no-information-fro/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/eclipse/gov-cuomo-hhs-put-gag-order-on-foster-facilities/vp-AAz0gvI
https://www.upi.com/Mayors-call-for-reunification-as-migrant-shelter-safety-questioned/8181529601840/
https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/texas/article/Trump-s-immigration-order-sparks-confusion-deep-13012849.php
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-latest-britain-says-us-wrong-to-separate-migrant-kids/2018/06/20/6f52daa8-74a2-11e8-bda1-18e53a448a14_story.html
Senators and Congressmen, and at least one local mayor, have been denied access to Trump's concentration camps for children. The official line of BS is that visitors must fill out a form, and then it will take two weeks to process the request. That sounds like ICE, DHS and HHS want two weeks to sanitize the horrific conditions that exist within facilities where children are injected with thorazine, against their will, to incapacitate them, and turn them into compliant zombies.
Similarly, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio say that the Trump Administration never told them that DHS and HHS were secretly bringing kidnapped children to their foster care facilities. Governor Cuomo said that when he asked for the number and location of the traumatized children, so that he could provide the necessary mental health services, DHS and HHS refused to answer his questions.
Journalists are using drones to obtain video images of the detention centers, because there is no other way for them to obtain information on the conditions inside.
The Pentagon is saying that 20,000 immigrant children will be housed on military bases. Entry to military bases is forbidden, except as allowed by a base commander. It would be illegal for journalists to fly drones over a base to view where the children are housed. It may also be illegal for private aircraft to overfly a base to obtain aerial photographs of detention facilities.
The announcement by the Pentagon is part of the Trump Administration's ongoing border policy of secrecy, concealment, denial and deception. Trump's only concern is how the border policy affects his poll numbers, so he wants to hide what he is doing from the public. Like Bush with his CIA interrogation centers, Trump wants to operate in secret, because what he is doing is heinously wrong.
A dozen states have sued Trump over his border policy and his Abu Ghraib concentration camps. Private, for-profit prison camps near the border, where children are being detained, are also being sued. The allegations range from mistreatment to physical abuse to forcibly injecting children with various mixtures of incapacitating medications.
Trump's concentration camps are not as evil as the specialized Nazi death camps, but they are, nonetheless, evil. The children are not being gassed, but they are being forcibly injected with drugs. Trump's concentration camps are inhumane, immoral, and possibly illegal.
Trump is preying upon children to push his unpopular and absurd political agenda.
There is a special place in hell for people who prey upon children.
Ivankant Trump
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2018 - 11:32pm PT
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Political Darwinism: young Trump staffers are unable to find dates in D.C.
If you don't want any more of a certain type of animal, the first rule is Don't Let Them Mate.
In order to prevent the spread of Trumpism, young people are refusing to date or engage with White House staffers. Like lepers, Trump's minions have been shunned by people their own age. The hope is that, like the polio virus, Trumpites will die off and no longer torment the human race.
https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Young-Trump-staffers-are-complaining-that-they-13017517.php
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 24, 2018 - 09:31am PT
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Dwains not stupid...That's how he talks to his parrots...He's trained one of his smarter parrots to post...Rawk , fukking libtards...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 24, 2018 - 09:37am PT
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 24, 2018 - 09:42am PT
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It’s ok, because the dog was a liberal, and I’m sure he found a Bible passage to justify it.
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clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
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Jun 24, 2018 - 10:20am PT
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While Donald Trump works to distract the public, his administration is working to dismantle every aspect of government that benefits the people. Noam Chomsky
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jun 24, 2018 - 10:36am PT
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Cosmic, we just wish you'd respect the sanctity of our heteronormative marriages by not supporting a president proud of snagging on the pussies of women married to other men. I don't want you to die, or even to not vote, I just want you to respect the fact that we deserve to have a president who respects the institution of marriage between a normal-born innie and an outtie.
Totally agree, Clifff, We'll eat cake LOL, and they'll eat dirt, sooner or later though. Sooner, hopefully.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jun 25, 2018 - 08:54am PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
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Here is another result of Vladimir Putin's economic sanctions on American businesses:
Harley-Davidson is moving production out of the United States because of Trump's trade war. The company says they will not raise the prices of their motorcycles in Europe, but will simply make them somewhere else to avoid the EU's retaliatory import tariffs. The EU initiated the import tariffs after Trump called for import tariffs on European steel and aluminum.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/business/harley-davidson-us-eu-tariffs.html
At one time, Trump boasted about how his Art of the Deal bullshit would specifically benefit Harley-Davidson. Instead, the company's stock is tanking, there will be employee layoffs, and the company will lose $100 million this year because of the trade war with the EU.
Putin - 2
America - 0
Harley-Davidson is based in Wisconsin, the home state of House Speaker Paul Ryan. The EU is also charging an import tariff on cranberries, of which Wisconsin is a major producer. The EU tariffs on whiskey target Kentucky, the home state of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. The EU import tariff on peanut butter targets southern farm states like Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama, all of which support Trump.
The EU tariffs, as well as China's tariffs, are intended to directly target Trump's fan base. The idea is to irritate and distress Trump's supporters, so that they will stop supporting him, and get rid of him because he is wreaking havoc at home and abroad.
Trump says his next move, in counter-retaliation for the EU's retaliatory tariffs, is to put a 25% import tariff on European cars.
Putin - 3
America - 0
Trade wars are easy to win.
Donald Trump
Trump is calling for an end to due process for immigrants. He wants to simply do with them what he wants, without regard to the Constitution, the law, civil rights, or common human decency. Trump's behavior is becoming more belligerent, erratic and deranged as Mueller closes in on him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-judges-due-process.html
Trump believes that the power and scope of his Executive Orders should be unlimited. He has no idea how the U.S. government functions. The White House staff had to explain to him, as a parent to a petulant child:
"That's a no-no. You can't decree the Constitution null and void. Bad Don-Don. Now, go get ready for your timeout. Investigator Mueller will be here any minute."
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jun 25, 2018 - 01:58pm PT
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Frost.....does this help? Now, really try to push past that good ol boy "yup yup" tumor within your brain housing group. Don't forget to squeeze off a good grouping for the boys down out the range......because your last round went high and to the RIGHT.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 25, 2018 - 03:19pm PT
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There's a talented pool of women running for Congress as Dems. It'll be women voters that tip the tide.
A Texas Democrat has one the best ads — and most effective opponent attacks — you’ll see in 2018
http://flip.it/NJHzlC
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 25, 2018 - 04:02pm PT
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Come join the space patrol
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 25, 2018 - 04:50pm PT
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There's a talented pool of women running for Congress as Dems. It'll be women voters that tip the tide.
A Texas Democrat has one the best ads — and most effective opponent attacks — you’ll see in 2018
Some of those women are Native American
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 25, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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If liberals chase the rat-bastard tRump down the sewer, we are lost. It is what he wants. It is his home turf.
Have to stay focused on a positive alternative to the bigotry and rich white priviledge he represents. He lied his fat ass off when he promised to be the president for all Americans, but we can’t become just an ugly left wing equivalent.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
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I have ordered the Pentagon to begin the process of establishing a sixth branch of the military, which will be called The Space Farce. Space Farce. Think about it. It will exist with the Air Force, as a separate and equal Space Farce.
I have ordered all the Pentagon generals to click their jackboot heels together three times, and say, "There's no place like space!" And, from now on, they will salute me, and each other, by holding the right arm straight, and pointing the fingers up and out towards space.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 25, 2018 - 05:24pm PT
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so, when was it when America was not great?
back when we defeated Germany and liberated Europe? Not great then?
if we are to make America great again then it has to be stated, when was America NOT great?
what era was it that we were ashamed of our soldiers, that when we were not great?
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Gene
climber
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Jun 25, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
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Where's Rudy Giuliani? He's been MIA for a week or so. I miss his clown show.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 25, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
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Yep .....
There is No place like the empty space in the st00pid politards heads here.
You can fly around forever in that empty space of the politard heads in this thread ......
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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Rudy Giuliani is obtaining an intensive, post-sanity education from Baghdad Bob.
Giuliani is expected to appear on TV soon, babbling about the Democrats slaughtering themselves on the Capitol steps.
Trump claims that immigrants crossing the border are a serious threat to national safety. The facts don't correlate with Trump's lies about violent crimes committed by immigrants.
But, Trump is using those lies to justify tearing families apart, and intentionally losing young children within a highly dysfunctional bureaucracy. Trump is abusing children to generate chaos and to distract the public from the Mueller investigation.
Meanwhile, a hispanic man who could not swim used his last, dying effort to save a drowning 5-year old child who had fallen into a raging river.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/sequoia-park-drowning-victor-mozqueda-13024235.php
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But, wittle Twumpypoo wikes big twucks. He wikes to sit in them, and move his arms wike he's dwiving.
Wall Street analysts say that a remarkably accurate predictor of recessions is very close to pointing to one right now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/business/what-is-yield-curve-recession-prediction.html
Vladimir Putin's economic sanctions on U.S. companies will exacerbate the next recession. Trump's supporters in the Midwest are going to be hit the hardest. Companies there are already issuing SEC 10-Q notices, informing investors that Putin's sanctions will severely affect their profitability. Trump's rock-solid base of Rust Belters are already being layed off, and companies are shutting down factories.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/factory-workers-lose-jobs-as-steel-tariffs-put-business-in-crisis-mode/
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/business/article213860744.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/harley-davidson-workers-stunned-plant-closure-after-tax-cut-n876901
In the coming months there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth in Trump-loving red states:
Oh, Lord, oh Lord, why hast thou forsaken us? We voted for Trump, just like you told us to.
And, we have obeyed the government, which was ordained by you, oh mighty Lord. And, we have stood by, supported, and praised and worshiped your son, Donald Trump.
Their lord is the Dark Lord Sordan, who resides and festers deep within the Bowels of Nadir. Sordan has tricked Trump voters into thinking he's God, and they will soon feel his fiery wrath. Trump will not be exempt when Sordan rains down excruciation upon those who worship. Like his devil-spawn son, Sordan has no intention of reciprocating the loyalty that others have shown him.
I'm the example shown in the Wikipedia article on Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Trump's behavior is so Kafkaesque, so Orwellian, and so Caligular, observing it has driven me insane.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 26, 2018 - 06:39am PT
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Mueller will bring charges against trump , congress will sit on their hands and let the supreme court decided if collusion is legal like gerrymandering and people are corporations...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 26, 2018 - 08:08am PT
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The ban seemed pretty discriminatory (and bad policy) to me
me too, could not agree with you more
but the Supremes decided only that the President has that Constitutional authority
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 26, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
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Our Mocker in Chief:
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 26, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2018 - 12:52pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Republicans are hypocritical moral relativists, and opportunistic liars.
Mike Huckabee is right down there, with the worst of them.
Mitt Romney is running for a Utah Senate seat. If he wins today's primary run-off election to become the GOP candidate, he is virtually assured to win in the general election.
Romney was one of Trump's biggest critics during the 2016 election. Now, Mitt "The Weathervane" Romney has resigned himself to the fact that Trump has hijacked the Republican Party, and that it is folly for a GOP candidate to oppose Trump.
Here is Romney's master plan for dealing with Trump:
"I have and will continue to speak out when the president says or does something which is divisive, racist, sexist, anti-immigrant, dishonest or destructive to democratic institutions. I do not make this a daily commentary; I express contrary views only when I believe it is a matter of substantial significance."
Romney presents himself as an ostensibly competent arbiter of what is a "matter of substantial significance". In other words, Romney can remain silent to avoid angering Trump, and claim that Trump's outrageous behavior is not a matter of substantial significance.
For example, Romney has not spoken out about Trump's border policy of taking children from their parents. At least 81 of the children were offered up for adoption at Betsy DeVos's Bethany Christian Services in Michigan, under the pretext that the infants and toddlers were found "unaccompanied" at the border, as if they had somehow wandered there on their own.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/26/bethany-christian-services-family-separation-betsy-devos/
State-sponsored kidnapping of immigrant babies, in the name of placing them with "good Christian" foster parents, is apparently not substantially significant to Romney. Indeed, Romney may believe that it is "God's will" that the children be forcibly taken from their parents, and handed over to "more deserving" Americans who pay a substantially significant fee to Betsy DeVos's Christian Services company.
Or, maybe Romney simply believes that the Bethany company's statement of purpose absolves them of all sins:
Bethany Christian Services is a global nonprofit organization that brings families together and keeps families together.
Romney has resigned himself to being another GOP boot-licker, beholden to Trump.
Romney will likely be a Utah Senator, and he may support Trump if he calls for the privatization of Zion, Indian Canyon and other public lands, so that the Trump real estate-developing machinery can "improve" the areas with golf courses, hotels and other Trump-Knows-Best resort amenities.
Fair enough. I changed the last sentence to provide for the possibility that Romney may grow a spine if he is elected to the Senate.
But, Romney is presently on the hook for not coming out forcefully against Trump's baby-snatching policy.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jun 26, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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You don't know yet how good Romney will be as a senator. Pure speculation.
All politics is the art of compromise.
Even the best politicians say misleading things.
At least he's not another died in the wool trump fan.
edit- was that a subconscious slip how I spelled dyed?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Holding funds offshore, awaiting a tax amnesty program, is now a normal part of financial planning. When the funds are repatriated to the U.S., they are taxed at a much lower rate, compared to if they had been legitimately taxed in the first place.
The people with mega-bucks are money addicts. They never have enough.
MEGA = Make Excess Great Again
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 26, 2018 - 01:41pm PT
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Mueller will bring charges against trump , congress will sit on their hands and let the supreme court decided if collusion is legal like gerrymandering and people are corporations...
You may well be right about congress sitting on their hands. Although if Dems win the House, they could bring articles of impeachment.
But I don't see R's in the Senate voting to convict. If they don't, there is nothing for the SC to decide. Impeachment is a political matter not a judicial matter. If congress doesn't act, neither will the SC.
The real question is whether voters will act. I'm not holding my breath on that one either.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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I thought the deal is mueller cant bring charges against trump because hes the president?
The Trump situation is unprecedented. He is being investigated for crimes that were committed before he was elected, when he was a civilian.
Nixon's crimes were committed while he was in office, which provided him with some cover because he might have claimed that they were committed in the course of his official duties. Nixon's immunity from prosecution while in office might have been the subject of a court ruling, if he had not resigned.
Similarly, Clinton's alleged "high crimes and misdemeanors" that led to his impeachment comprised lying to investigators while he was in office. He was not indicted for lying, probably because the question about an illusory Nixon Immunity had not been definitively settled, in the courts, or otherwise.
But, at least some of Trump's alleged crimes could not possibly be construed as being committed in the course of his official duties, because they were alleged to have been committed before he was elected.
The Supreme Court ruled, in Clinton v. Jones, that a sitting president is not immune to a civil lawsuit brought over actions he committed before he was elected, and were unrelated to his office.
Both Nixon and Clinton were successfully served subpoenas by Federal investigations for crimes committed while in office. Nixon was forced to surrender his notorious Oval Office tapes, and Clinton was compelled to testify before a Grand Jury.
The false claim that a sitting president can't be indicted, even for crimes committed before he was elected, is based on the idea that he is the head of the branch of government that would arrest and prosecute him. The false logic is that, as the head of the Justice Department, he has absolute power over that department, and he has the power absolute power impede or stop any investigation or prosecution. The false logic is that the Justice Department has no practical legal standing against the president, because he completely controls everything the department does.
By a similar logic, it could be argued that, as the head of the Treasury Department, Trump is entitled to take as much gold as he wants from Fort Knox. And, he can declare himself, and his family, perpetually exempt from paying any Federal taxes.
And, as the head of the Department of State, Trump would be able to personally enter into treaties with foreign nations (the Constitution specifically forbids this).
And, as the head of the Department of Defense, Trump would be able to declare war without the approval of Congress (again, unconstitutional).
And, further logic of this type would give Trump, as the head of the Department of the Interior, the absolute right to convert Federally-controlled public lands into his own, private real estate holdings, so that he may develop them, or sell them for a profit.
Trump is the head of the Department of Justice, but he is not immune from being indicted while in office. An independent special prosecutor, who is officially not within the Justice Department, could bring forth a valid indictment. Robert Mueller is an independent special prosecutor.
Trump and his team of lieyers could tie up an indictment for a long time, all the way to the Supreme Court. So, prosecutors may not take the unprecedented, and untested, step of indicting a sitting president. But, if Robert Mueller's investigation shows sufficient criminal activity, he may have no choice, given that GOP Senators would cut their own heads off before convicting Trump of any crime, including treason, money-laundering, secret communications with Vladimir Putin, or permitting his corrupt Cabinet staff to initiate import tariffs to protect their own domestic company holdings.
Trump is a mess, all the way around.
The people who voted for him have done a great disservice to the nation. Those who continue to support him, despite irrefutable evidence of what he has done, and is doing, can be considered co-conspirators, or at best, accessories after the fact.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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Trump and his associates are being investigated for conspiracy to defraud the United States - colluding with Russians to pervert the 2016 election. Trump is also being investigated for the separate crime of obstruction of justice - attempting to steer, derail, cancel, or otherwise pervert an investigation into the conspiracy charges.
So, Trump could be indicted for crimes committed both before, and after, he took office. An indictment on the obstruction charges would be, as in the case of Nixon, less clear-cut because a clever lieyer might argue that Trump's primary official duty, as president, is to remain in office, even if he had to obstruct justice to do that.
Like Al Capone being convicted for tax evasion, and not racketeering or murder, an effective prosecutor will take the low-hanging fruit. In Trump's case, that would probably mean crimes committed before he was president, such as for election fraud.
In the course of his investigations, Mueller has found evidence of associated crimes, such as Paul Manafort's money laundering and tax evasion prior to the election. Michael Cohen's home, hotel and office were raided by the FBI after Mueller's team forwarded evidence to the Southern District Court of New York. Mueller's mandate specifically includes pursuing other crimes that are uncovered while investigating the conspiracy and obstruction charges.
Trump's biggest legal exposure will likely be white-collar crimes committed before he announced his candidacy, and before he was elected. If Mueller is following a money trail that leads from the Stormy Daniels payment, to Michael Cohen, to a meeting in Prague with Russian oligarchs, to a Trump project in Ukraine, to money laundering, Mueller would have legal standing to bring forth charges.
Paul Manfort's lawyers are appealing a Federal judge's ruling that Mueller's mandate is not restricted to just the conspiracy and obstruction charges, but extends to associated crimes he uncovers. Manafort will likely lose the appeal, which would mean that Trump's finances prior to the election are fair game.
Notice that Trump declared that his personal finances constituted a "red line" that he warned Mueller not to cross. Trump has something to hide, and Mueller will, or has, discovered what it is.
Mueller doesn't recognize any imaginary Trump "red line", any more than Milwaukee police would have recognized a Jeffery Dahmner "red line" to not look inside his freezer.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 26, 2018 - 03:18pm PT
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Good luck with all that Tom.
You can’t even disagree with one of his mob or not serve them in a restaurant with out vengefulness.
While I agree he should have his own private room, the only way I see it is voting him out.
I think that will happen.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 26, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
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True that Robert Mueller cannot indict, but the grand jury he presents to can.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
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You can’t even disagree with one of his mob or not serve them in a restaurant with out vengefulness.
People who do Trump's bidding should not be let off the hook for "just doing their job". Defending a tax cut for the rich is one thing, but defending and deceiving the public about a state-sponsored kidnapping and adoption ring is quite another.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 26, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
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@kurteichenwald
After spinning bogus Obama birther tales, taunting a war hero and joking about him dying, insulting a Gold Star family, p*ssy grabbing, mocking the disabled, using insulting names for political leaders, & accusing Democrats of being pro-crime...
...the GOP is demanding civility
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jun 26, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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Well, I'm doing my bit. I just sent another email to the White House; pretty sure I'm on the watch list now. Wonder if he read it? He hasn't replied, so probably not.
Dear Mr. President, you are supposed to be the President of the United States, not the President of who voted for you. Can you just sort of shut TFU? It's getting pretty old and really, really stupid.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 26, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
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Can anyone imagine the blistering vitriol from the right if Obama had personally threatened to go after Harley Davidson with additional taxes (taxed like never before) because the company decided that it was in their best business interest to move some production overseas?
(notwithstanding this was completely caused by Trump).
The silence is deafening...and f*#k these hypocrites.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 26, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
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Look,they win with less votes,they make the democrats wait for their Supreme Court judge,he doesn’t have to show his taxes and gerrymandering is legal.
This is the mob.
Democrats have to grow some serious balls to overcome this clusterf*#k.
And, I never said ,leave them off the hook, If you think it is divided now ,just wait for the downturn.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 26, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
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Anyone who believes that the SCOTUS has not become politicized is well. . . . . . Cosmic
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 26, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
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Consider this - if Hillary had become President everything would be quiet
divided government, just like under President Obama
and come the November midterms the Republicans would remain in control
Trump's Presidency is the greatest gift to the Democrats, handed on a silver platter
the emotion, the anger, the disgust against Trump by both Dems and more importantly Independents is resulting in Republicans being defeated in special elections all over the country, including in strongly held Republican states
thanks to Donald Trump, the Dems have a good chance of taking back the House
in November, and the Senate and Presidency in 2020
If Hillary had won the Dems would still be wondering in the desert with nothing to look forward to
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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Trump's Presidency is the greatest gift to the Democrats, handed on a silver platter
During World War II, the British Intelligence Service (MI6) prepared plans to assassinate Adolph Hitler. The military leaders flat-out rejected any such thing, because Hitler's blunders were of the greatest benefit to the allies. As Hitler entered the Querencia Phase of his dictatorship, he became more and more erratic, ignoring his generals and advisors, and making important decisions based on "touch and feel" ("It's what I do").
Go Trumpy! Go Trumpy! Go Trumpy! Go Trumpy!
The DHS and HHS separated children from their parents without any sort of coherent, logical way to identify who was whom. Even simple bar-coded plastic hospital bracelets would have sufficed.
ICE, DHS and HHS intentionally separated some children irreversibly, especially the youngest, so that the could be shipped thousands of miles away, and put up for adoption.
Ditsy Davos' Bethany Christian Services was complicit in this kidnapping and adoption scheme. At least 81 children separated from their parents at the border were immediately put up for adoption, with no intention, whatsoever, of ever reuniting them with their parents.
DHS and HHS have been surreptitiously busing children around in the middle of the night, and secretly placing them in foster care centers around the nation. There is almost no transparency about what is going on. The "lost" children are not just pawns, but a fungible commodity on the open adoption market. The shocking stories about breast-feeding infants being forcibly torn from their mothers is starting to make sense: they are the most desirable adoptees, because the won't have any memories of their former families. Babies too young to speak can't tell anyone who their real parents are.
Disgusting.
Seventeen states have sued the Trump Administration over his misguided and criminal policy of taking children from their parents, and selling them on the open adoption market.
The level of criminality in the Trump Administration is astonishing. And it is even more astonishing that a majority of the GOP in Congress are unwilling to do anything about it.
Trump is INSANE!
He screwed up Harley-Davidson with his deranged trade war, and when the company adapted to survive, he attacked the employees on Twitter, calling them "traitors".
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/business/trump-harley-davidson-tariffs.html
Trump is saying that Harley-Davidson "surrendered" in the tariff war. Harley-Davidson was not fighting a tariff war. Harley-Davidson is a civilian casualty of Trump's tariff war. Harley-Davidson did not "surrender" any more than war zone refugees fleeing for their lives are "surrendering".
Trump is threatening big import tariffs, when Harley-Davidson tries to bring foreign-made motorcycles back into the United States. As usual, Trump engaged his mouth before turning on his brain. Harley-Davidson's foreign production will be sold in foreign countries, not in the U.S.
Trump is like a spoiled child at his own birthday party who insists on cheating at every game so that he wins. If he can't win, he makes up new rules on the spot, so that he will win. If starts losing, he throws a Trumper Tantrum, and stamps his tiny little feet in rage. And, then he breaks all the pieces of the game, so that nobody else can win.
If Trump can't win, he insists on total destruction.
Trump is DELUSIONAL!
As part of his Twitter Tantrum after Harley-Davidson said it would move production overseas, Trump sent this:
Where are these other countries? The ones that are reducing and eliminating tariffs and trade barriers? Are they here on earth? China, Canada, Mexico and the European Union have all increased tariffs and trade barriers in response to Trump's U.S. tariffs on imported aluminum and steel.
Maybe the countries eliminating tariffs and trade barriers are in a galaxy far, far away, and were discovered last night by the Space Force.
A San Diego Federal judge has issued a nationwide order that separated immigrant children must be reunited with their families within 30 day (14 days, for those younger than 5 years). Separating children from their families must stop immediately. And, no immigrant can be deported unless their children are with them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/us/politics/family-separations-congress-states.html
We can expect a spate of lawsuits from adoptive parents seeking exemption from the judge's order. They will wail and moan that they have become attached to the stolen children now in their care. They will argue that taking the children from their adoptive care would be cruel and disruptive to the children's lives.
Foster care facilities, like Ditsy Davos' Bethany Christian Services, will be unable to comply with the judges order, because they never bothered to keep records of who the stolen children's parents were. So, we can expect a spate of lawsuits from private foster care agencies, challenging the judge's order on the basis of various legal contortions.
And, we can expect the Trump Administration itself to sue for relief from the judge's order. The incompetent bureaucrats who intentionally separated families, without so much as a name tag on the children, will be seeking to cover their own asses.
Of course, Trump will fight the judge's order, and create a senseless ruckus, because that's what Trump does when he doesn't get to win.
A wonderful bright spot, on an otherwise cloudy day.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Jun 26, 2018 - 11:51pm PT
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jun 27, 2018 - 03:49am PT
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They've colorized the Forbidden Zone? Yuck!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 27, 2018 - 06:13am PT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2018 - 06:22am PT
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Lock Cosmic up...with his birds...Rawk...Libtards
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Jun 27, 2018 - 08:19am PT
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Thanks for the link, xCon!
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:07am PT
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I also don’t understand the call for disbanding ice. While I certainly think we need to reform quite a few of our immigration laws, as long as we have such laws, we will still need cops. The big problem is the mandates the cops are given.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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I have no beef with her platform as shown on her hand-bill but would love to know a bit more about how she plans to pay for it?
exactly the problem I have with Bernie Sanders' "free college", "medicare for all"
his solution to pay for all that is the same as hers, tax the rich
naive, sophomoric - reality says the Republicans will never, ever raise taxes
it would take 60 Democrats in the Senate to overcome, even under Obama never had 60
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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?
well Frost, I have never heard this new one about President Obama having distain and not getting his hands dirty to clean up the Democratic party
care to educate me on his "distain" with examples, and also tell me where he personally has the responsibility and authority after leaving office to somehow reorder the DNC? thanks
by the way I did not have to "clench my teeth" to vote for Hillary
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2018 - 10:35am PT
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Republicans in Congress have called for civility and tolerance. Trump supporters protested outside the Red Hen restaurant, calling for civility and tolerance.
You can't make this stuff up.
The most uncivil and intolerant people on the political landscape today are complaining that others are, what? Stealing their schtick? Copying them without permission? Plagiarizing their playbook? Invading their region of behavior? Infecting the nation?
Fanatical Republicans and Trumplicans calling for civility and tolerance are hypocritical moral relativists. They exhibit neither civility nor tolerance.
If they want civility and tolerance, they need to lead by example, and not by preaching, "Do as I say, not as I do".
A political platform that is wildly extreme to the side, hoping to eventually skew legislation from the middle, is straight out of the Republican playbook.
The idea is that your opening offer is two bucks for a Ferrari, and you're aiming to settle on a "reasonable compromise" of $4,000.
It's a primitive and absurd negotiation tactic, straight out of The Art of the Deal. It's insulting and frustrating to the other side, which may have been the Republicans' intent when they began using it, back in the dark days of Newt Gingrich.
If a Democratic platform is presented this way, it's because they learned to do it from the Republicans.
BTW, Trump's plan to win his ill-conceived trade war was based on the idea of negotiating with a wildly unacceptable opening offer, and hoping the other side would come over to his "reasonable compromise".
The other side, in this case China, Canada, Mexico and the European Union, countered Trump's primitive and absurd bluster by simply matching his opening offer, and calling his bluff.
Trump couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag.
He's was a spoiled child, and he's now a spoiled man-child. All his life, he pouted and bullied to get what he wanted. Now that he has to deal with adults in a real-life situation, he's at a loss, and flailing around.
MAGA = Mueller: America's Great Again
Yay!!!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 27, 2018 - 10:57am PT
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There isn't much shame left in the Republican party. Naked hypocracy is the norm. Being hypocritical isn't a new invention, but it has gotten a lot worse. I think this is another effect of the echo chamber. When you have professional looking commentators presenting this all with a straight face, it is easy to buy into. Those that point out the hypocrisy are the enemy peddling fake news.
There were some down sides when Walter Cronkite and the New York Times had a near duopoly on deciding what did and did not qualify as newsworthy. But neither did you get the across the board lying and hypocrisy that you can get away with today. In today's political world, you can get away with complete lies about simple facts. Like whether the overall violent crime rate is going up or down. Whether the deficit went up or down under Obama. Whether total government spending went up or down under Obama. Those sorts of lies were harder to sustain in that political environment. There were still plenty of problems. The media generally took the governments lies on the Vietnam war far too long. On the other hand, when Cronkite told the nation that he didn't think the war was winnable you couldn't escape to the safety of Fox news saying everything is going great.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2018 - 11:00am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The current news landscape is analogous to the current music landscape.
Back when a few music companies ruled the industry, and were the only ones who could finance the production of expensive studio albums, there was a rather high degree of discrimination, to ensure that only high quality music made it onto vinyl. The companies had a monopoly, but it was a (somewhat) benign monopoly. When you bought an album, you were guaranteed that it would at least have the hit song you heard on the radio, and (if you were lucky), some other tracks that were also good.
Now, anybody with a fake iPhone can use it to record, mix and distribute barely-controlled noise, and call it music. Freedom from the music companies' monopoly has come with a loss of the filtering function that they provided. There is a tremendous range of music available, but it's difficult to sort out what is good music, and what is just noise.
The news environment today is the same. Anybody with a fake iPhone can use it to record, mix and distribute barely-controlled noise, and call it news. The freedom of speech the internet has given us has come with a loss of the filtering function that the newspapers and television stations used to provide. There are many, many sources of "news", but it is difficult to sort out what is valid, factual reporting, and what is just noise.
Previously, there had been "fake news" in the form of scandalous and sensationalist fictional tabloid magazines, like The National Enquirer. Nobody with a brain believed any of that tabloid trash was true. Rupert Murdoch, a publisher of tabloid trash, adapted the scandalous and sensationalist fictional format, put it on television, and called it Fox News.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 27, 2018 - 11:09am PT
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There are some things that are generally regarded as left wing issues that I would support. Single payer universal health care. A much more aggressive approach to climate change.
Not sure what her hand bill means by fully funded Universities. I think you should be able to go to college regardless of income level and not have crushing debt when you graduate. But the totally free model has its own distortions and problems.
But in our kindergarten level of political discourse and angry partisans and angry populists, I think it is likely that the Dems will go down the trail that the R's have blazed. A system where there is only two parties but both parties are reasonably functional and can usually talk about the issues based on facts is not a particularly good one. A two party system where only one party makes much of an attempt to be grounded in reality is really bad. A two party system where each party conducts all of its debates based on its own fantasies... I'm not looking forward to that, but I fear that is where we are headed.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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Looks like Kennedy just retired and trump can nominate a second Justice, which will likely solidify a right wing court for decades.
It sure is a good thing hillary didn’t win!
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couchmaster
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 11:34am PT
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Ah ha, hallo. Interrupting the Cabestros circle jerk Querencia Phase discussion uno momento. Regarding todays news: I only have 123 shares of this on Predictit. Sigh, I'd had craploads more but sold them off in a moment of doubt. Base hit, not the home run it could have been but not tired of winning yet, even small wins. Shares went from .53/per to .97/per share in seconds. https://apnews.com/43de809e3c144a1f9048055386394263
BTW, anyone wants to make a buck, Biden shares are only .16/share right now. Somehow, Kamala, doesn't have a chance in hell, Harris, is more popular now at .19/share. Folks aren't lining up behind Elisabeth Warren either, she's at .11/ea. Maybe she has the wrong nickname? https://www.predictit.org/Market/3633/Who-will-win-the-2020-Democratic-presidential-nomination
YRMV!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How very British of you, wagering sums on everyday outcomes. Did the Brexit vote make your bank?
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
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Norton
Annual Per Capita cost of Healthcare:
USA $9k pp
UK 4k pp
5k x 350,000,000 =1750000000k = 1.75T
Not sure I understand the "where is the money going to come from" argument.
As an aside, overall, health outcomes are better in the UK. All this despite the fact that conservative and new labor governments have been trying the undermine the national health service for nearly 40 years.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Jun 27, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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would love to know a bit more about how she plans to pay for it?
Easy peasy! Just reduce the military budget and there's more than enough to pay for it. ;-)
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 27, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
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I have no beef with her platform as shown on her hand-bill but would love to know a bit more about how she plans to pay for it? Confiscate the wealth of the top 1%? Create significant tax breaks for law-abiding companies that invest in elements of her platform?
Xcon -when you are done bomb-throwing pray enlighten us
anyone know to her republican opponent is?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 27, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
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I believe her district is the Bronx,the only urban area in New York State that Bernie won in.
Good on her!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 27, 2018 - 02:33pm PT
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Jorroh,
I could not agree with you more in your contention that the US pays far more for healthcare results than anyone else.
My point has to do with the political reality of rounding up enough Republicans to join Democrats to ensure passage of a healthcare bill that would significantly reduce and better prioritize healthcare spending,
I have zero faith in republicans to do anything at all that actually benefits anyone other than the very upper classes in America, those that need help the least.
The ACA, while flawed, was a tremendous step forward and it was passed with zero Republican support, and now with a strongly conservative Supreme Court much of the ACA could be destroyed, depriving ten of millions of Americans of healthcare.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 27, 2018 - 02:45pm PT
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...the ACA could be destroyed, depriving ten of millions of Americans of healthcare.
That, along with the job losses and economic hardship generated by the trade war could send millions of Americans fleeing to countries where they have a hope of a better life.
Hmmm. Maybe Mexico will fund that wall...
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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Norton
Short term, I think the approach that you suggest is what has given the Republicans such a strong hand when setting the agenda, not just for healthcare but for all sorts of issues.
Long term, this Clinton approach (starting with bill) of butting your policies right up against those of the republicans with the hope of electoral success and subsequent incremental progress has been overtaken by events, but more importantly always relied on a misunderstanding of what motivates many (maybe most) republican voters. It worked for a couple of elections, it's not going to work anymore.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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When Trump met with Kim Jong-Un earlier this month, he demonstrated what a buffoon he is. When greeting one of Kim's generals, Trump fell for the schoolboy's handshake trick, "Down Low - Too Slow", which caught him off guard, so he saluted the general.
Now, Trump is poised to be a laughing stock on a wider scale.
The son of a Russian oligarch, Emin Agalarov, is a Russian pop star, and has produced a song and video to set the stage for Trump's upcoming summit meeting with Vladimir Putin. Aras Agalarov, like all Russian oligarchs, has close ties to Putin.
Emin Agalarov was the person who connected Donald Trump Jr. to Russians with "dirt" on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election. Both Agalarovs were closely involved in Trump's 2013 Miss Universe beauty pageant in Moscow. Emin Agalarov served as an MC, and performed at least one song during the show. Trump Sr. appears in a music video for one of Emin's songs, In Another Life. Aras Agalarov was Putin's point man for Trump's now-defunct Moscow hotel project, and he has been to Trump Tower at least once.
Emin's song and video, Got Me Good, is sung in English, and mocks Donald Trump and the current American political situation. Trump is portrayed in the video as a buffoon on the world stage, being ridiculed by everyone from Stormy Daniels to Kim Jong-Un. The notorious Steele Dossier, with its lurid disclosure of Trump's urophilia, features heavily in the video. Actual footage of Trump, his family, and various characters in Trump's tragic-comedy world is mixed with actors portraying the same people in satirical vignettes. A recurring theme is information and money being passed from hand to hand; in one scene, Emin hands "Ivanka" a satchel.
The lyrics You Got Me Good are intended to indicate what Trump will be saying to Vladimir Putin at their summit meeting.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
What Trump is doing to America is not funny, and now he's got the whole world laughing at us.
The Russians aren't even trying to hide what they did. They're gloating over the havoc they're wreaking in the United States.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 27, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
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exactly the problem I have with Bernie Sanders' "free college", "medicare for all"
his solution to pay for all that is the same as hers, tax the rich
Or gut the Pentagon.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 27, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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Hardly have to gut it,really.
You folks are really fake news personified,Bernie proposed free college and he was going to pay for it on a single traders tax,taxing each transaction 25 cents.
Get informed ,really.
And ,seeing this thread is about Trump,why aren’t the left saying ,we should not allow any Supreme Court justices to be nominated by a POTUS under investigation or at least until he has been cleared of ANY crimes.
You know why
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 27, 2018 - 07:40pm PT
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You folks are really fake news personified,Bernie proposed free college and he was going to pay for it on a single traders tax,taxing each transaction 25 cents.
The Pentagon should still be disemboweled.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 27, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
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I did not mean you and I agree.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2018 - 08:09pm PT
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Will Donald and Melania be separated from their children when they are imprisoned for that russian thing....???
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 27, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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" I don't really care, do u"?
When Melania mixes a couple of percocets with some champagne...got to get through the day somehow.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
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Or gut the Pentagon.
Trump has called for the biggest defense budget in U.S. history, and wants to cut food stamps.
Trump is such a simpleton, even after (supposedly) receiving a college degree in economics, his idea of analyzing the national budget is:
It all comes down to either guns or butter. Guns or butter. Look it up. I know what I'm talking about. WHARTON SCHOOL knowing what I'm talking about. Well, I say it's gotta be guns. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about. Besides, the women can make butter at home when they're not getting dinner ready.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
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Which is it ...Genius or simpleton...?
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
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ATG, whoever you are, your cowardly, anonymously gloating ejaculation is premature.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:20pm PT
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*Is that you in there, honey boo boo?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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The supreme court , the newest legislative branch of the republican party and corporate America , has ruled that paying union dues is unconstitutional...thank god the republicans are looking out for middle class america...how bout another tax break for the 1%...?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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Article 2, Section 4 of the Constitution states: "The president, vice president and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
Supreme Court justices are civil officers, and subject to the same rules. It is entirely possible to remove justices for "high crimes and misdemeanors". Treason and bribery don't really seem to be cards in play, at this point. And, really, neither are high crimes and misdemeanors.
I mean, if anybody knows how to skirt the law, and get away with it, it's a Supreme Court justice.
It would be a fool's errand to investigate any Supreme Court justice, and hope to find an evidence trail. Even if there was such a trail, it would lead off, and away, and into the ether, never to connect to, nor corroborate, an allegation.
Michael Aventatti said that Michael Cohen was an "evidence hoarder" (one of Avenatti's best lines, by the way).
Anybody who makes it onto the Supreme Court would not be an evidence hoarder.
So, impeaching any member of the Supreme Court would not seem to be feasible.
Next idea?
Anyone? Anyone?
Mueller? Mueller? Mueller? Mueller? Has anybody seen Mueller?
Fairest Mueller
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
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True dat...all that shiz about clarence thomas squeezing a sisters butt was a hoax much the same as Big don shagging a porn star or Arnie's multiple gropings...never happened...Now those kennedy brothers...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 03:16am PT
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Il Duce, esimo.
Y arita?
El puto de chupa de verga de Putin est el pinchoto y grossero malo del todo mundo.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 28, 2018 - 06:28am PT
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Wpuld Michael Cohen be a good supreme court justice...?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 28, 2018 - 09:29am PT
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Steve Schmidt, Another Republican joins the Democratic Party
✔
*This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.
12:41 AM - Jun 20, 2018
Steve Schmidt ran John McCain's Presidential campaign
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 28, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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The supreme court , the newest legislative branch of the republican party and corporate America , has ruled that paying union dues is unconstitutional...thank god the republicans are looking out for middle class america...how bout another tax break for the 1%...?
Yes, forcing public employees to subsidize union speech is unconstitutional, and the recent decision will stop that abusive practice.
And yes, unless you don't think that middle class people pay taxes, this will also have the benefit of slowing down the fleecing of middle class taxpayers by public workers' unions.
The unions basically ruined US manufacturing and are well on their way to bankrupting many states and municipalities.
It's about time we got a Supreme Court that can rein in some of the most egregious abuses.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jun 28, 2018 - 10:49am PT
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Damned those unions, for demanding a limit to work hours, requiring potty breaks, and asking for pay that allows a person the ability to save for retirement, thus not being worked to death - literally.
What killed US manufacturing was a cocktail of disallowing the practice of adding unmitigated toxicity to the environment, a push toward imported materials and goods at the cheapest prices available, and lest we forget - a population that preferred not to perform mind-numbing, health-crippling, repetitive stress injuring work.
Go to a Walmart and you see a whole lot of "America First" supporters who would think only a fool would pay more for a t-shirt made in this country and printed by hand by the artisan who created the graphic art that an imported knock off of the very same design.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jun 28, 2018 - 11:06am PT
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Trump will probably get two more scotus picks.
Spell check police alert!! The word you're looking for is 'scrotum'. You're welcome.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 28, 2018 - 11:17am PT
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Damned those unions, for demanding a limit to work hours, requiring potty breaks, and asking for pay that allows a person the ability to save for retirement, thus not being worked to death - literally.
If you like unions, you're more than welcome to contribute as much as you'd like to them.
But when the government forces workers to give money to unions as a condition of government employment, that's a problem. Get it? It's not super complicated.
Basically the old regime was allowed because of really weird old case that carved out an exception to normal free speech law cuz the Supreme Court at that time wanted to throw a bone to public-employee unions.
The current Court said enough is enough, applied basic First Amendment principles, and is restoring a little common sense jurisprudence.
Sorry that upsets the libs, but that's the way it's gonna be for a LONG time (at least if nothing happens to Thomas) so don't let the door hit you on the way out if you have a problem with it!
And if Ginsburg can't make it through Trump's term (at least least when there's a Repub Sentate), I almost feel sorry for you, it's kind of gonna take all the fun out of waiting for SCOTUS decisions cuz we all know what's gonna happen-- basically you're totally screwed if you can't get your lib polices enacted by democratically elected officials and want the old liberal Court to help you out. Those days are long gone.
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A Essex
climber
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Jun 28, 2018 - 11:36am PT
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the union thing will affect those that voted for tRump the most.
let the fat, slack jawed deplorables work 60 hours a week for minimum wage while waving a flag and praying to Haysus, #MAGA .
Now that Gestapo ICE is roudning up the brown slave labor caste, the fat rednecks can proudly pack meat to country music instead of mexican polka while paying for their fat wives pill and soda habits
Bernie was pro-union, killary less so, but the unions backed her over him anyway
the socialist deomocrat revolution is coming, Schumer and Pelosi need to retire their sad old brand of politics and get the hell out of the way
I'm upping my stock holdings on old-style wire coat hangers....
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Jun 28, 2018 - 11:36am PT
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It's certainly been argued that promoters of some agendas over rely on the federal courts. True or not those days are over. I think we are looking at preordained results in all cases involving social issues, corporate interests, environmental protection, etc., for the rest of our lives.
The good news is that winning elections is still an option!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 28, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
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The GOP is making sure Corporate America can screw you at will. And Trumpies just bend over and take it, hoping for a reach-around.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 28, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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The GOP is making sure Corporate America can screw you at will
Shhhhhhhhh!
I let you in on a little secret.... that happens no matter which of your favorite 'teams' has the head puppet position.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jun 28, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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I'm pissed at Kennedy for deciding to retire just a few months before the mid-terms! Sheesh, considering what the republicans did to Obama in not bringing up his scotus nomination for nearly a year before the last presidential elections, this feels extremely unfair. I would have hoped that he would have felt that way. Maybe he got bought off.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 28, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
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I'm pissed at Kennedy for deciding to retire just a few months before the mid-terms! Sheesh, considering what the republicans did to Obama in not bringing up his scotus nomination for nearly a year before the last presidential elections, this feels extremely unfair. I would have hoped that he would have felt that way. Maybe he got bought off.
LMFAO--so a Justice who is over 80 freaking years old decides to retire and people think he's bought off! :))
And not to say Justices should play the retire when the Prez-is-one-their-guys game, but if they do, Kennedy is a freaking conservative who was appointed by Ronald Ray-Gun! (yeah Kennedy seemed a little moderate, but that's only compared to some of the other guys, who are basically as right wing as they come. He's been a very reliable conservative on the important issues, obviously he's got a soft spot for gay rights--I kinda like the guy!)
(And not that it matters, but I do believe the Repubs tactic with Garland was "unfair" and sets a terrible precedent. The Repubs should have duly considered Garland and then simply voted his liberal ass back down.)
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 28, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
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LMFAO--so a Justice who is over 80 freaking years old decides to retire
That f*#ker should have retired at 65, like everybody else.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 28, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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I've never understood forced contributions to unions.
But then again, I'm not a fascist.
What the Supreme Court lackeys ignored in their decision is that unions are run by the members. If they don't like the politics of their leaders, they have the mechanisms to replace them. So, if you dislike the fact that as a union member your income is a third higher than nonunion workers, and you hate the fact that you get a vacation and it burns you that the boss's son can't fire you for whatever reason, you can elect like minded suck ups to run the union.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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I do believe the Repubs tactic with Garland was "unfair" and sets a terrible precedent.
That's the Republican way, ever since 1992. Before that, both parties were able to cooperate, at least to some degree. With the ascendancy of the Gin Grinch to Speaker of the House, Republicans in Congress became less amiable, and more combative. Obstruction, rather than cooperation, was the Gin Grinch's battle cry.
The rhetoric from the Republicans now is that the Democrats are the obstructionists.
The Republicans are like schoolyard bullies who punch a kid in the face, and then complain when the other kid hits them back in the face.
Trump supporters calling for civility and tolerance is an exquisite example of the hypocritical double-standard that is a Republican trademark.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 28, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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The Abood Court said that a state could balance managing its employees and labor interests to avoid “free rider” situations where non-union workers benefited from a union’s advocacy for pay raises and other benefits without paying for the negotiation process.
The GOP loves freeloaders. The parasites at the top who are sucking the life out of this country, the Republicans only exist to do their bidding.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Assolutamente
They've put those "core values" in the same dumpster that they've put fiscal responsibility and a balanced Federal budget.
It's a tragic episode of Whores Gone Wild.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jun 28, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
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Workers most in need of union protections are the ones least likely to have discretionary budgets for union dues! Keeping gas in the car and lights on in the house and food on the table and paying medical bills all take precedence, and many people struggle with these basics. Making dues optional is tantamount to killing a union.
The Supreme Court has ruled that government employees don't have to pay union dues, which will ultimately lead to the death/irrelevance of unions for government jobs. Instead of our government being the shining example of how to structure our society to balance the needs of employers (to make a profit) and employees (to have livable conditions even if they are not endowed with special/rare skills), it has followed corporations toward the perdition of humanity.
The herd is being thinned. Will you and your offspring survive?
Is your area of specialization safe from AI? Can you perform some task better than a machine, and is someone willing to keep paying you for that? We can each pretend like we are special/different and that this only affects someone else, all those other lazy slobs who didn't study or relaxed on weekends while we were working hard to better ourselves. But pretty soon we who feel unaffected will realize we are standing alone and nobody is left to defend us when we thought we were safe.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Jun 28, 2018 - 04:06pm PT
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The Janus decision is appropriately named; it has two faces.
The conservative justices may rue the day they elevated collective bargaining to first amendment protected free speech.
THE RIGHT IS TRYING TO TAKE DOWN PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS. IT MAY BRING MUCH MORE DOWN WITH IT.
Rachel M. Cohen
February 25 2018
IN THE MIDDLE of last week, Dixon O’Brien, a 60-year-old engineer, and his union, the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150, quietly filed a federal lawsuit against Lincolnshire, a village in a northern suburb of Chicago. Together they raised issue with Lincolnshire officials using taxpayer dollars to fund a statewide lobbying group, the Illinois Municipal League, which advocates for things like limiting collective bargaining and reducing pension benefits. “O’Brien objects to the use of his tax money to fund private organizations that lobby and/or engage in other political activities that run directly against his economic interests and his political beliefs,” the complaint reads.
On Thursday, the head of the same union filed a federal lawsuit against Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner, challenging portions of state law that requires unions to provide representational services to non-dues paying members. “It is absurd that state law forces unions to provide equal representation and service to public sector workers who are not members and pay nothing toward associated costs,” said union President James Sweeney in a statement.
And then on Friday, the International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 139 and 420 filed a federal lawsuit against Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, challenging a law he signed in 2011 that dramatically restricts public employee collective bargaining rights. The unions argue that the law’s restrictions impinge upon their protected free speech rights under the First Amendment.
These three consecutive lawsuits are a warning to the Supreme Court that if it buys into an extreme conservative argument being used to undermine labor unions, the justices are going to take a lot more than just agency fees down with them.
On Monday, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in Janus v. AFSCME, Council 31 – a case experts have long predicted could strike a mortal blow to public sector unions. The plaintiff, an Illinois state worker named Mark Janus, has argued that he has a First Amendment right to avoid paying anything to a union that bargains on his behalf. With the current ideological leanings of the court, the plaintiff — and the conservative groups backing his lawsuit — face strong odds of victory.
But while most of the media has focused on the fact that the Janus case stands to decimate union coffers – and by extension, Democratic Party coffers – some labor activists and legal scholars have begun sounding the alarm on what they say would be the unintended consequences of the suit, effectively opening up the floodgates for countless lawsuits like the recent ones filed by the International Union of Operating Engineers. If Janus doesn’t have to pay his agency fees because collective bargaining is speech he disagrees with, then collective bargaining is speech. And it can’t be restricted. Indeed, when some of Janus’s lazier advocates lay out the case, they accidentally argue on behalf of unions’ right to free speech. “Because government is both employer and policymaker, collective bargaining by the union is inherently political advocacy and indistinguishable from lobbying,” wrote George Will on Sunday, directly implicating the First Amendment.
For more than 40 years, the Supreme Court has held that there’s a constitutional difference between a union’s political activities and its collective bargaining work. Compelling workers to fund the former would infringe on their freedom of speech, the court ruled in 1977. But under current law, collective bargaining is different. Imposing conditions, such as requiring mandatory dues or limiting the scope of their negotiations to wages and benefits, is fair game.
If the Janus plaintiffs win their case, this critical distinction would be dismantled. (A decision is expected by June, when the court’s term ends.) A union’s bargaining and political lobbying would be treated the same — as protected free speech. In other words, the court would actually be elevating the free speech standards of bargaining. That, in turn, could bring with it new legal protections.
If the Janus plaintiffs win their case, a union’s bargaining and political lobbying would be treated the same.
“If the plaintiffs are right that collective bargaining is political speech indistinguishable from lobbying, well, the flip side of that coin is that that protected free speech can’t be restricted,” said Ed Maher, a spokesperson for the International Union of Operating Engineers. “We don’t think this has been thoughtfully considered by the plaintiffs, and it is our belief that a win for Janus will open a tremendous Pandora’s box.”
This Pandora’s box, Maher suggested to The Intercept, holds all sorts of chaotic possibilities for the U.S. legal system and state governments across the country. Nearly all states impose some form of restriction on collective bargaining, limiting who can bargain and what workers can bargain over. If the Janus plaintiffs win in court, the theory goes, then workers could start bringing First Amendment challenges to limitations on their bargaining rights, like the restrictions Walker, the Wisconsin governor, passed in 2011.
And, as the three cases filed last week demonstrate, they’ve already started.
COURTS HAVE LONG sought to avoid applying First Amendment rights to unions. From the earliest court decisions that concerned worker protests in the 19th century, as labor writer and strategist Shaun Richman has written, judges have tended to treat unions “as criminal conspiracies that interfere with employers’ property and contract rights.” And while courts have chipped away further at the free speech rights of workers and unions over the last half-century, they have also expanded the free speech protections afforded to employers and corporations.
Ann C. Hodges, a labor law professor at the University of Richmond, agrees that a win for the Janus plaintiffs could invite all sorts of new legal challenges. Writing recently for the American Constitution Society, Hodges said:
Courts have regularly ruled that states like Wisconsin can provide collective bargaining rights to some groups of employees and not others, using the rational basis test to find no equal protection violation. … But if all union activity is protected political speech, then these distinctions implicate fundamental rights, invoking strict scrutiny for such classifications. Thus, the differential treatment of employee groups by the states may not survive. Indeed, unions may even have an argument that there is a constitutional right to collective bargaining.
Equally unlikely to survive are many governmental employer restrictions on employee speech. A long line of cases allows government employers to impose various restrictions on employee speech. The Supreme Court distinguishes employee from citizen speech, permitting employers to limit and control employee speech in the interests of the government as employer. … A ruling in favor of the Janus plaintiffs could obliterate the distinction, requiring employers to tolerate much unwanted speech by their employees.
Some left activists remain understandably skeptical that Janus could lead to some interesting or even good opportunities for labor, arguing, as Richman wrote, that a judiciary “that could buy such a craven argument as Janus will refuse to take the precedent to its logical conclusion and shamelessly waving away workers’ free speech rights.” But if the anti-Trump backlash leads to a wave of liberal judge appointments, the legal landscape could grow significantly more friendly for unions over the next few election cycles. Plus, unless Janus ends with an extremely narrow ruling, it would be a while before the Supreme Court could really stamp out all the knock-on cases, even if it wanted to. In other words, legal chaos could reign for years in the lower courts.
Richman goes so far as to say that Janus “could hand new liberal majorities a roadmap for restoring a legal balance of power between corporations and workers.” Or, as Sweeney of Local 150 puts it, “The free speech rights being invoked by the union-busters behind Janus work both ways.”
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/25/conservatives-public-sector-unions-janus/
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 28, 2018 - 04:21pm PT
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Workers most in need of union protections are the ones least likely to have discretionary budgets for union dues!
That's the beauty of collective bargaining, You have discretionary income.
But you guys clearly know better and what’s best for those non-union knuckleheads and where and how they should spend their money and whatever else you assume you have a right to enforce on them.
And those guys who refuse to pay into their union, will also refuse the better benefits, working conditions and wages that the union brings to the table?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 04:23pm PT
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In re Janus, the Republicans want to have their cake, and eat it, too.
Faux-clever maneuvering eventually leads to contradictory results, with the weakness of the original concept providing strength for its self-negation.
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 28, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
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I wonder if the supreme court will extend this logic to the money that corporate leaders piss away on politicians...money that rightly belongs to the shareholders.
After all, with Citizens United, the supreme court made it crystal clear that this money is never about getting favors to enhance shareholder value from said politicians. They're merely generously pissing away their shareholders money because the politicians are such good guys.
And lest we forget, Republicans passed a law a few years ago where corporations don't even have to disclose these "gifts" to their owners.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 28, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
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Enforced union dues on on non-union memebers was a gross violation on the freedom to associate.
And being forced to pay taxes to support wars I disagree with it is a gross violation of my beliefs. And don't get me started on having to pay my workers minimum wage or not being allowed to drive 100mph on the interstate.
And perhaps more relevant, as a stockholder why can those companies donate to politicians I vehemently disagree with.
Very gross violation. Sad.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 06:45pm PT
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There is nothing better than a lively debate, and a civil exchange of ideas.
That said, Trump is frickin CRAZY!
They're merely generously pissing away their shareholders money because the politicians are such good guys.
A corporation's board of directors is tasked with ensuring that a corporation appropriately conducts its affairs, including how it spends its money. If a corporate board approves of, say, bribing government officials to allow polluting public waterways to boost profits, that board is within its corporate mandate.
External regulation of corporations serves to ensure that a corporation that behaves as a single-minded, sociopathic entity is not allowed to injure the public, as collateral damage, in its quest for profits.
Unbridled, unregulated free enterprise is an inherently unstable system for a society. Greed, callousness and money addiction pervert the "magic hand" of the free market system. History has shown this to be the case, over and over and over and over and over and over.
The problem that a society faces is not that there is regulation, but how to regulate so that nefarious actors are restricted, without unnecessarily fettering honest and legitimate economic activity.
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Jorroh
climber
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Jun 28, 2018 - 07:13pm PT
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Thats my point though Tom...the two can't coexist.
You've either got corporations bribing politicians or screwing their shareholders.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My college education is in engineering - the science of compromise. An airplane that is as light as a feather is not robust in a sudden gust of wind. A Porsche engine should produce high power, but also not burn fuel at a prodigious rate. A skyscraper, as in San Francisco these days, should have a solid foundation, and not be built on the cheap, simply to steal Pisa's lunch by having two leaning towers in the same city.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Another-building-is-sinking-in-San-Francisco-13028603.php
This dolt who I worked for in the medical device industry once said, "We're not going to compromise". He was technically illiterate, and had no idea what his statement really meant. He wanted his cake (lightweight short leg walker substitute for a cast) and eat it, too (a structural system that would not break under any conceivable loading).
After I quit, I was contacted when there was a personal injury lawsuit because someone had been hurt when that company's short leg walker product failed structurally.
The Valley Giant is the most robust, strong and reliable camming device, because I have seen, firsthand, how to NOT do things. I have decided that my heavy mountaineering gear is an appropriate compromise between low weight and functional strength. Many people have agreed that I have made the correct decision.
As an engineer, I know the benefit of a compromised solution.
I agree.
But, you MUST avoid the Trump tendency to misspell words, such as "counsel".
It is important that correct language be used in a valid statement, lest a grammatical error be construed as invalidating it.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Jun 28, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anything other than this blatantly shows the corruption of our system .
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jun 28, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
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^^^^ and amerika doesn't suffer from corruption. . . . .
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
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We can either witness the decline of America, along the current trend, or we can make an effort to stanch the decline.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 28, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
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It's too late...10b can't tell the difference between a lightening strike and a controlled burn....
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 29, 2018 - 09:51am PT
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Donald Trump Made Justice Kennedy an Offer He Couldn’t Refuse
http://flip.it/2hbHKe
This is so fuked up. It's basically M13 in suits ruthlessly gaining turf and power with a trail of collateral damage in the form of wrecked families and a tattered constitution.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 29, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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Companies should not be allowed to contribute to any vote process whatsoever.
Only individuals, registered voters, and capped at $1000 per election per candidate or issue. Done.
No PACs. No Corps. No rich deep pockets. A truly leveled playing field.
DMT
That is certainly more consistent and fair. But our Supreme Court protects unlimited donations by the wealthy and corporations under Free Speech but then turns around and guts the ability of Unions to contribute.
I expect the one-sidedness to increase after Kennedy's replacement.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 29, 2018 - 11:35am PT
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if the democrats took the senate trump wouldn't be able to seat anyone on the list of dominionist Christians approved nominees that he is shopping...
I expect R's to confirm before the mid-terms.
If the Dems do take the senate, I would be in favor of them not seating any more conservative nominees. This would be in the category of lessor of two evils. Having your institutions paralyzed by procedure is one more nail in the coffin of having a functioning democracy.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 29, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
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This all still comes back to the undemocratic process of the DNC followed by the atrocious campaign run by Hillary (how does a Dem lose, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania?--by being completely out of touch)--unfortunately for us, the dogs have been unleashed.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 29, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
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or we can kiss birth control goodbye...
Jessica Mason Pieklo, a law professor who works as a legal journalist for Rewire, mentioned briefly on a Wednesday edition of her podcast "Boom! Lawyered" that she was worried about the fate of the 1965 Griswold v. Connecticut decision and the 1972 Eisenstadt v. Baird decision, which together created the right of privacy and overturned state laws restricting contraception access.
You can "kiss birth control goodbye" if democratically elected legislators decide to make it illegal.
If the majority of people want to make birth control illegal, well, we live in a democracy (of sorts), so you're just going to have to try to elect legislators who pass laws you agree with.
No more crying to mommy and daddy (Supreme Court) to bail you when the legislators do things you don't like!
(But there still is a role for the federal courts of course to strike down laws that conflict with the Constitution--we've seen some examples of that recently where the Court had to knock out the illegal mandatory union payments for government workers because that violates the First Amendment. Birth control, however, isn't addressed in the Constitution, so it's up the legislators. If you really don't like that, you could try to amend the Constitution.)
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 29, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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Chief Justice John Roberts, after he was nominated by George W. Bush in 2005, drew attention because of a draft article he wrote as senior adviser to the attorney general under Ronald Reagan, in which he approvingly cited Justice Hugo Black's dissent in Griswold. As much as one might like the idea of a right to privacy, Roberts wrote, that did not "mean that courts should discern such an abstraction in the Constitution."
Yes, yes, that's it exactly.
No right of privacy in the Constitution whatsoever. (But you do have some rights against "unreasonable search and seizure," I suppose.)
But don't forget, it is important for the Court to strike down laws that actually violate the Constitution (see Citizens United, a most excellently reasoned decision).
Let's rejoice that Kennedy is gone and we'll get another brilliant jurist in the nature of Scalia soon--Oh happy day!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 29, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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So ,a comedian sneaks in as a senator and gets a private meeting with the big guy.......
LTFOL
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 29, 2018 - 03:57pm PT
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rejoice that Kennedy is gone and we'll get another brilliant jurist in the nature of Scalia
Yeah let’s celebrate losing the only centrist with an open mind, and replace him with someone who can’t admit how biased they are. But hey if he or she fits in with your agenda who cares if justice or other people suffer.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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oh but he was "only half white"
don't you remember?
Obama was created in a petri dish in Kenya, educated in a Syrian terrorist training camp
sent to Hawaii with a fake news birth certificate
all with the intention or becoming President in order to destroy American society
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 29, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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No worries Norton,everything is fine ,the economy is cranking.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 29, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
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Every day the st00pid politards here feed their consciousness with Trump garbage.
No wonder politards are so st00pid .....
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 29, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
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Werner,what are your thoughts on “space force”?
C’mon,enlighten us. Lol.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 29, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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“space force” = 1000% st00pid
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Jun 29, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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That space force clip was hard to watch. Fvckin morons.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 29, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
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Werner, you do realize that posting on this thread qualifies you as a "st00pid politard" right? :-)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 29, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
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over and over, he proves his own ignorance every time he opens his mouth
he knows only how to call others childish names on the playground
and lives in fear that one day they will all turn on him
poking at the soft belly of his shallow intellect
bullies are all the same, little boys trying so hard to be grown up bad asses
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 29, 2018 - 08:53pm PT
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Yeah...Dunce boy spent too much time camping out with adoring groupies giving him a false sense of importance...rj
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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The Trump Administration is, again, lying to the public in an effort to present a false reality to conceal the disastrous results of Trump's policies.
This time, it's Larry Kudlow, chief economic advisor, who is falsely claiming that the Federal budget deficit is "coming down rapidly".
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/us/politics/fact-check-kudlow-deficit-.html
The truth is that the deficit is going up rapidly because of Trump's tax cut for the rich, coupled with the largest defense budget in U.S. history.
When challenged by the truth, there was no way Kudlow could reconcile his blatant lies with facts and reality, so he spun his own false statements this way: when he said the deficit IS coming down rapidly, what he meant, obviously, is that in the FUTURE it will be coming down rapidly, just as soon as the tax cut works its illogical and impossible magic of increasing Federal tax revenue.
Pants on fire and fourteen Pinocchios for Mr. Kudlow.
Russia is seeking to upend and disrupt Western societies. Putin's plan is to degrade the West, so that Russia, by comparison, doesn't look so bad. Putin wants to drag the rest of the world down to his level.
One way to do that would be to break up the European Union. So, Putin ordered Trump to present French Prime Minister Macron with a "better trade deal", if France would leave the EU. Putin's Monkey Boy did what he was told, and the Monkey Boy will get a banana in Finland.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/29/quit-eu-bilateral-trade-deal-trump-told-macron-us-france-terms
Putin had more success in breaking Great Britain away from the European Union. British investigators are now discovering that the Brexit election was perverted in the same manner, using the same tactics, as the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election. The British are sharing their information with American investigators.
Arron Banks was a major financial contributor to England's Brexit campaign to leave the EU. The Russian ambassador to Britain offered Banks lucrative investments in Russian diamond and gold companies. Banks claims that he was anti-EU long before he had multiple meetings with the Russian ambassador about buying shares in the Kremlin-controlled companies at below-market prices.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/world/europe/russia-britain-brexit-arron-banks.html
Arron Banks' business partner, James Mellon, took advantage of the Kremlin's rewards program for his supporting the Brexit campaign. Mellon is an Isle of Man financier with ties to Russian money, Putin and the Kremlin that go back to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Three weeks after the Brexit vote, Mellon's investment company was allowed to buy a substantial interest in a Russian diamond and gold company, at a steep discount, at a time when the shares were increasing in value.
The Brexit decision to leave the EU has created a tremendous mess for Great Britain. For example, Scotland may split from Great Britain in order to remain within the EU. The entry point at Calais, France, will become a gridlocked, massive parking lot for trucks carrying goods, because British exports to the EU will need to pass through a border checkpoint. Tens of thousands of products, that are now freely traded between Britain and other EU countries, will require new import regulations, tariffs, and other bureaucratic impediments to trade. London's financial markets will lose their current EU business when Britain comes a competing foreign nation. European nationals living and working in England will have to apply for visas, and their taxes will go up; many will leave England, and return to the EU.
Putin - 1
Britain - 0
EU - 0
Putin wanted to reward Banks, as he did Mellon, for helping him drag the West down to his own level. Banks is downplaying his Russian connections because he is now the target of an official investigation. Banks says, "There was no Russian collusion". Investigators believe he was specifically targeted by the Kremlin and offered rewards to push for the break-up of the European Union.
"Mr. Banks, though, said he doubted that the Russians had cultivated him for reasons other than routine trade promotion.
“The idea that things were dangled as some sort of carrots for me to be involved with the Russians is very far-fetched,” he said. “I wonder what the Russians wanted from me?”
Not surprisingly, Banks' connection to Russians, money and the Kremlin put him in Trump Tower just a few days after Trump won the presidency.
On Nov. 12, 2016, Mr. Banks met President-elect Trump in Trump Tower. Upon his return to London, Mr. Banks had another lunch with the Russian ambassador where they discussed the Trump visit.
Robert Mueller and Senate investigators are acquainting themselves with Arron Banks, because his connections to Russian money, the Kremlin and the Trump Administration make him a person of significant interest.
“From what we’ve seen, the parallels between the Russian intervention in Brexit and the Russian intervention in the Trump campaign appear to be extraordinary,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
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Putin's economic sanctions on the United States are not just hurting American businesses. Infrastructure projects, like bridges and roads, are being delayed indefinitely because Putin's tariff on imported steel is making the projects currently unfeasible economically.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-own-tariffs-harder-rebuild-140502570.html
The hope is that America will find some way to eliminate the economic sanctions and import tariffs, so that the much-needed projects can go forward.
It is bad for America to be Putin's little bitch.
Someone would have to be CRAZY to intentionally want that.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jun 30, 2018 - 04:47pm PT
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It is bad for America to be Putin's little bitch.
Someone would have to be CRAZY to intentionally want that.
Or paid off quite handsomely.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 30, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 30, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
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America to be Putin's little bitch
LOL ... Putin doesn't want nor need you st00pid people to be his bitch.
You're all way too dumb and st00pid.
You been sanctioning everyone else on the planet all these years plus raping everyone's natural resources all over the planet.
Meddling in everyone's affairs all over the world, overthrowing govts, assassinating people, warmongering everywhere, etc etc.
And now you st00pid people cry like little girls.
Yer all self righteous idiots and belong in a nuthouse .....
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 30, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
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You forgot this part Norton.
It was the end of an incredibly strange case that featured an anonymous plaintiff who had refused almost all requests for interviews, two anonymous corroborating witnesses whom no one in the press had spoken to, and a couple of seriously shady characters — with an anti-Trump agenda and a penchant for drama — who had aggressively shopped the story around to media outlets for over a year.
Those shady characters — a former reality TV producer who calls himself “Al Taylor” and a “Never Trump” conservative activist named Steve Baer — had been mostly unsuccessful in getting the media to bite. There are a few very good reasons for that, which the Huffington Post’s Ryan Grim succinctly summed up: Taylor and Baer have been really sketchy about the whole thing, and since the accuser is anonymous, journalists can’t do anything to verify her claims. The only journalist who has actually interviewed Johnson, Emily Shugerman at Revelist, came away confused and even doubting whether Johnson really exists.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jun 30, 2018 - 05:33pm PT
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 30, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Yes,I am self righteous , but, I just got a baddass washing machine,LOL.
vvvvvvvvvvv
Yes, but ,it is portable....lol
It chews little energy ,perfect for a OGHome.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jun 30, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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Oh and this;
LOL
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LOL, indeed.
It is the twenty-dollar bill, not the five-dollar bill, that features the White House on the reverse side.
Trumplicans are so impoverished, they don't have any twenty-dollar bills to deface with graffiti (which is a Federal crime, by the way).
Either that, or they don't know that the Lincoln Memorial is a white marble temple, and not the White House.
I think wilbeer's washing machine looks more like Michael Cohens' turbo-diesel document shredder.
BTW, putting paper documents into a washing machine on HOT with Drano instead of Tide is probably as good as it gets, when you're trying to get rid of your hoarded stash of paper evidence when the FBI is battering down your front door. Drano is mostly sodium hydroxide, ("lye"), which is a major pulping agent, and polluting effluent, as used at the Koch brothers' Georgia Pacific paper factories.
Michael Cohen can be forgiven for using a shredder, which is an inferior, easily defeated system for obfuscating hoarded paper evidence. In New York City, washing machines in apartments are rare, and can't be found in offices, or hotel rooms, at all.
There are stories of NYC people sneaking washing machines into condos and co-ops, under penalty of permanent eviction. Apparently, the issue is insufficient plumbing infrastructure in those high-dollar towers with million-dollar views, especially the pre-war buildings.
In a similar manner, Cohen lived in a place, New York City, where this was, apparently, not an option:
Open up a hard drive with tiny Torx screwdrivers, and pull out the magnetic disks, while saving the really nice magnets for the (older) kids to play with. Then, toast the disks, like flat marshmallows, over a propane torch campfire in the garage or basement. Or, do it beneath an underpass, down by the river, in the middle of the night.
Cohen may have been the Taxi King, but he, apparently didn't have a garage and a propane torch ($12.99 with free shipping on Amazon Prime, tiny tank of fuel included).
I've never toasted the magnetic disks from old hard drives when looting them of their magnets. I have only heard of doing this, and it seems logical that toasting them would irreversibly destroy the magnetic domains.
The disks make really nice and shiny "I am a doctor" Halloween costume props. They have a hole in the middle, just like you might see on ER, or Saint Elsewhere.
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ec
climber
ca
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Jun 30, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
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Back to Climbing...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2018 - 07:23pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Feel of Dreams: If you build it, they will come.
Anyway.
The stupidest, most ineffectual way to deal with a problem is to just throw money at it.
The most intelligent, effective way to deal with a problem is to put human brain power against it.
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ExWallRat
climber
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Jun 30, 2018 - 08:38pm PT
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I think you guys are burning way too much energy with the Trump hate. People can't sustain such high levels of outrageously outrageous outrage for long without crashing. I don't think you'll be able to keep this up for all 8 years of Trump's presidency.
Save some of that energy for when he replaces Ginsberg and then Breyer.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Jun 30, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You like the potus?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Hey Pud, you do know that most of those punk bands whose videos you post are very left leaning liberals, right? Using punk rock to make a point as a conservative is like running diesel through your four stroke. It just doesn’t work, pal.
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A Essex
climber
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the Demorats need to learn to be bigger A-holes if they wanna win in November
Civility is so 2012
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dirtbag
climber
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Or at least not fall into the diversionary trap of hand-wringing over every restaurateur that 86es a shamelessly lying propaganda minister.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Time for a posthumous apology to Joseph Geobbles folks, He was just doing his job...
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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One problem, the gay couple's personal conduct that is offensive to the cake shop is done in the privacy of their own home. There is no tangible affect or danger to society.
The Press Secretary is irrefutably lying and complicit in cover ups to the detriment of entire populations. This while in the employ of tax payers and after taking an oath to uphold the constitution.
This in commonly known as judgment.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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rich white dumbf*#ks have always been a protected class.
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dirtbag
climber
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Few businesses that want to say in business are going to start excluding people because of their political affiliation. Let’s not overreact.
Sanders is trash: party is irrelevant. She’s powerful too. If she gets butthurt because of a mild protest by a private citizen so be it.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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More & more Republicans have turned on him over his policies, but this is a biggie!
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the nation’s largest business lobbying group and customarily a close ally of President Donald Trump’s Republican Party, is launching a campaign on Monday to oppose Trump’s trade tariff policies.
The chamber has traditionally sided with the Republican Party, but Trump’s Trade War has pushed them into opposing Trump & candidates that support his Trade War. They will be financially supporting anti-Trump Congressional candidates in the mid-term election. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has over 3 million members.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-chamber-exclusive/largest-u-s-business-group-attacks-trump-on-tariffs-idUSKBN1JS0VL
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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....Pretty soon there will be Red restaurants and Blue restaurants.....
Nah...... Restaurants or any retailers that play stupid games like this simply go out of business. It's hard enough making it work with 100% of the available traffic. When you somehow alienate at least 50% of that traffic...... It's dead Jim....
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Denying service to someone because of their sexual orientation is ok, but not their political affiliation? Doesn’t make sense.
That being said, I think that it was wrong to deny Sanders.
See how that works ;-)
Prejudice sucks.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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What's the sign say ..." We reserve the right to serve " ?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Yes RJ, I suppose it is all right to deny service to blacks ,Hispanics ,Asians ,hell even longhairs, but not privalaged conservative types ,oh ,hell no ,your rights as a business are denied.
Merican way ,right there.
Elections have consequences.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dershowitz needs to change his last name and then maybe he'll regain his lost friends...Maybe try D#@&%eowitz...?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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No
Public eating places cannot turn away customers based on Federal Law
The 1965 Civil Right Acts took care of that, Race, Color, Sex, Religion, National Origin etc
however there is no Federal Law stopping diners from refusing service for basically other reasons such as a dress code (no shorts) T shirts with inflammatory messages
and yes, someone wearing a MAGA baseball cap
RottinJohnny is right - there are signs everywhere stating we reserve the right to
refuse service ........
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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It is like that ,only funnier.....lol
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Donald J Trump matters....lol
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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A friends brother owned a bitchin chinese restaurant in Santa Cruz until the world found out the owner was giving david duke campaign money...The wait staff walked out and the restaurant went under....
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Rotting, I am confused. Was your friends brother the one giving the campaign funds? Funny story, btw
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Yeah...happened during the winter...people that neeeded jobs were suddenly SOL...
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Norton, your post caught my attention. I searched a bit and this captures the summary of what I found:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/
Short version: it may or may not be true, but the case was dropped by the potential victim in November 2016. I too would be worried about standing up to a person who had done something like that to me who had then become President of the United States of America with additional power to first find me and then to make me disappear.
That said, it could also be a scheme cooked up by a person of "liberal" ideology who believes that any means can be justified for a greater good.
Too little information, but what info there is should be presented in a balanced way.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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Trump falsely claimed that he had seen ICE agents liberate towns of the MS-13 gang. Trump has never seen any such thing. Trump continues to lie to his fan base of dullards, dupes, racists and fools, inventing an imaginary reality where he is the savior of all mankind.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/us/trump-ms13-immigration-fact-check.html
I have watched ICE liberate towns from the grasp of MS-13 & clean out the toughest of situations. They are great!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 30, 2018
Robert Mueller will soon liberate the nation from from the grasp of BS-13 & clean out the most corrupt of situations. He is great!
Putin says that his illegal annexation of Crimea is not open to discussion, when he meets with Monkey Boy in Helsinki. For Monkey Boy's part, he will avoid discussing Russian meddling in U.S. elections, as well as his dozen-plus campaign staffers with significant contact with Russians with Kremlin connections, including the four Trumplicans who have already pleaded guilty.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Tom,
The woman named in the law suit filed twice, not once against Trump for rape.
It is clear that Trump paid off women to shut their mouths about sexual assault.
She filed a second time right before the election and then dropped it.
You have to have a lawyer to file in district level court, and they don't waste their time on nothing suits.
There is no "second side" to present, Tom, Presidents don't talk about rape charges
And if you can't figure out why by now then you need to read more.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Trump falsely claimed that he had seen ICE agents liberate towns of the MS-13 gang. Trump has never seen any such thing. Trump continues to lie to his fan base of dullards, dupes, racists and fools, inventing an imaginary reality where he is the savior of all mankind.
Just curious, why doesn't trump go after the crips, and the bloods?
Everything trump says is fodder for his base.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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^^
Someone offers them a belay...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Must be free soloing
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
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In case Putin's takeover of the United States becomes too much for you, there is a new medicine on the market that will deport you to a better place for a few hours.
It's Trump-shaped "Great Again" ecstasy.
You can find it in Mike Pence's home state of Indiana. The wrapper is printed in a Karen McDougal-themed Playboy Bunny motif.
While high on "Great Again" ecstasy, you can groove to the slow-rave sound of Russian pop-star Emin Agalorov's new hit song, "You Got Me Good", which ridicules Trump.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Indiana-police-Orange-Trump-shaped-ecstasy-13044121.php?utm_source=sfgate&utm_medium=hp&utm_campaign=hpsci
The people in Indiana are going to need their "Great Again" pills to escape reality. Putin's economic sanctions on American businesses are already causing layoffs and factory closures in the Midwest. Now it's Indiana's soybean farmers who are being bent over double, like safety pins, by Putin's economic policies for the United States.
Russia's sales of soybeans to China tripled in response to Putin's now-detonated import tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum.
https://www.axios.com/china-soy-bean-russia-import-united-states-trade-war-553afce6-d9d5-43b5-b04b-f94d20dd6bbc.html
http://www.farmfutures.com/trade/china-triples-soybean-purchases-russia
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-17/china-buys-record-amount-of-russian-soy-as-it-shuns-u-s-growers
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/388178-china-buys-record-amount-of-russian-soybeans-amid-halt-on-us-imports
The American people need to realize that Donald Trump is actively working to advance Putin's plans for the disruption and disorganization of the West. The trade war, and the U.S.'s dissociation from Canada, Mexico, China and the EU is benefiting Russia, not the United States.
Breaking up NATO would benefit Russia, not the West.
Leaving the WTO would cripple it, creating economic chaos.
Trump is a traitor, actively engaging in treason to injure and hurt the United States. His policies are completely in sync with what the Kremlin would like him to be doing. His agenda is the Kremlin's agenda.
It is statistically impossible that Trump's pro-Russian activities are simply coincidences. None of his pro-Russian moves benefit the United States. In fact, they injure and hurt the United States.
Once, maybe.
Twice, not likely.
Three times, probably not.
Four times, highly improbable.
Five times, probability indistinguishable from zero.
Six times, no.
Seven time, absolutely impossible.
Eight times, absolutely impossible, except with time travel.
Nine times, absolutely impossible, even with time travel.
Ten times, NFW.
Here is a partial list of Trump's moves to benefit Russia, and injure the United States.
1. Trump moved the GOP at the convention to lift sanctions on Russia over Crimea and campaign interference. At the same time, Trump moved to reverse the U.S. policy of providing arms to Ukraine to combat the Russian invasion of Crimea. After he took office, Trump balked at enforcing the Russian sanctions that Congress had written into law. Eighteen months into his term, he has not implemented all of Congress' Russian sanctions.
2. Trump is disrupting and attempting to derail the Mueller investigation into Russian campaign interference. Even before the investigation began, he sought to preclude it by firing FBI Director James Comey. Trump has done nothing, or less than nothing, to protect the 2018 elections from Russian interference.
3. Trump and his staff (Jared Kushner, Eric Price, et al) attempted to establish a secret, back-channel of communication between Trump and the Kremlin. It is unknown if such a back-channel was established, or if Putin uses it to control Trump. The plan was to use Russian embassy communications infrastructure to thwart the NSA's ability to eavesdrop in the name of national security.
4. At least ten people associated with the Trump election campaign have been shown to have met with Russians linked to Putin and the Kremlin during the campaign, or shortly thereafter. All of those Trump people lied about their meetings with Russians, suggesting their intentions were nefarious.
5. Four days after the 2016 election, Arron Banks, a major financier of the Brexit campaign to leave the EU, came to Trump Tower to meet with Trump, and then reported back to the Russian ambassador to England. The Brexit decision will be highly disruptive to the British economy, and to the U.S. to the extent that it does business with Britain.
6. Aras Agalarov, a Russian oligarch tied to Putin, came to Trump Tower shortly after the 2016 election to talk to Trump. Agalorov was Putin's money man for the now-defunct Trump Moscow Tower project.
7. Trump offered France a "better trade deal" if it would leave the EU.
8. Trump antagonized and alienated the other G7 countries, and suggested that Russia be allowed to rejoin the group.
9. Trump's trade policies caused China to abandon American soybeans in favor of Russian soybeans, a trade volume worth billions of dollars.
10. Trump is talking about pulling the U.S. military out of Europe, just as Putin is beginning to move West militarily (as in Crimea and Georgia).
11. Trump ignores the unanimous U.S. intelligence agencies' verdict that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, and instead considers Putin's self-serving denials to be accurate. The Senate Intelligence Committee released their own report today, confirming that Russia interfered, and did so to assist Trump in getting elected.
12. Trump was asked if he would discuss Russian interference in the 2016 election when he meets with Putin in Helsinki this month. Trump didn't answer the question. Instead, he said he wanted to know why the DNC server (which the Russians hacked into and stole emails from) was not turned over to the FBI.
13. Trump has ridiculed, insulted or otherwise disparaged almost everyone within his orbit, with the conspicuous exception of Vladimir Putin.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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What kind of kickback is trump getting from pootboi for the soybean sell off..?
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Trump
climber
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So this is what we’re doing today. Again. Ain’t America great? I blame Trump, in several thousand carefully chosen words, as a public service to you twelve readers. You’re welcome.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump...Is Cosmic included in the 12....? Can you sic ICE on him and deport him back to Mars...rj
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Thanks for the Trump/Russia correlation you posted above, Tom
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Well,you have idiot right anyway.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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They soon will grow tired of winning like Cosmic and the other Trump worshipers...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 02:34am PT
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We decry.
But, then, how?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 03:55am PT
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Lest we forget, Putin's whore (El Puto de Putin) is not a business magician.
http://fortune.com/2017/10/09/trump-golf-courses-scotland/
No more delusion.
El Puto de Putin es el grossero malo del todo mundo.
If you can, please, correct my foreign language delivery, to improve its correctness.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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and under such regulation as the congress shall make
The congress that Ohio representative Jim Jordan saw, and never reported, was of a man under his supervision grappling teenagers and attempting congress thereof with his tiny throbbing accomplice.
Jim Jordan assailed Rod Rosenstein for his investigation into Donald Putin's collusion with the Russians.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/04/politics/jim-jordan-ohio-state-sexual-abuse-allegations/index.html
The hubris within the GOP is astonishing. Now that Donald Putin is president, these guys delude themselves that everything they've ever done never occurred, and that they are now free to become the most scrutinized people on the planet, with no repercussions.
George Orwell's Memory Hole is a myth, but these GOP guys believe that it exists, because Donald Putin says that it exists.
If we all shut our eyes, nobody can see what we are doing.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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I guess Uncle Puti told little Donnie to start a trade war. Little Donnie loved the idea, but now the mean old other countries showed they were not scared of silly little Donnie.
When all the people that trusted little Donnie asked him why, little Donnie said bend over and take it like a patriot.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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Putin is a former KGB agent. His goal is to spin reality into a cotton-candy web of deceit and lies, and make people think that it's tasty.
Trump suckles a feces-slathered phallus, because Trump is El Puto de Putin.
PATRIOTIC now is supposed to mean this:
P.A.T.R.I.O.T.I.C
Putin-Anointed Trump'S Reality Invokes Orwellian Tirades Infecting Civilization
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mean old neighbor Mr. Mueller is hiring a bunch more prosecutors. Little Donnie is in big twoble.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Scott Pruitt resigned, leaving Donald with a real challenge, finding a worse person to head up the EPA.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's all happening so fast, I can't keep up~!
This THING is accelerating, and not slowing down.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
I wish that ex-Disney darling Caroline Sunshine would take over as Trump's Press Secretary. She is from Orange County, California, which is where Disneyland is. People from Orange County are reasonable people. I like them. I once dated a nice woman who lived in Dana Point, in Orange County.
Richard Nixon was from Yorba Linda, in Orange County, and he retired to San Clemente, in Orange County. San Clemente is right next to Dana Point. If you play golf, you drive from Dana Point to San Clemente on the weekend.
Nixon's first and last places of his life were MEXICAN towns. Nixon, of all people, is aghast, rolling over in his grave, over what Donald Putin is doing to America.
It is, truly, an astonishing state of affairs when Richard Nixon can be presented as a morally favorable counterpart to the current President of the United States.
The fact that Robert Mueller is a life-long Republican gouging out Trump's eyes is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 02:28pm PT
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I live in California, which is already onto Putin's game of lies, deception, and corruption. When I post here, the Californians say, "We're the choir".
What I am doing is providing as much valid information as possible, so that deceived and deluded Trumplicans elsewhere will WTFU and realize that El Puto de Putin is a con man, playing them as fools.
Putin's incessant and deceptive Tweeting is lulling ignorant Americans into believing he is on their side. It is necessary to counter the foreign attack, and alert people that President Putin is NOT working for their best interests.
Vladimir Putin is not the legitimate President of the United States.
I don't care if what he says is true. I just like what he says.
Pruitt
Prutti
Puttir
Putir
Putin
Yes.
I do believe it when the NSA, CIA, DIA, FBI and other investigative agencies of the United States alert the public that Putin is the enemy, and he is actively working to undermine the United States.
I don't believe Russian bots who post online, without any substance, that the American public should disregard the unanimous conclusion that we are under attack by Putin and Russia.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Geez man... you really do believe all the Putin-is-the-deebil stuff eh? Ha.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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and why is that, ATG?
He was appointed by Donald Trump's own handpicked Department of Justice
Republicans control the Presidency, House, and Senate
why do you supposed they allow the investigation to continue?
Does it make you uncomfortable to constantly read about the indictments and guilty pleas?
you must really really want all this to stop, sorry you get what you vote for....
suck it up and stop being such a snowflake
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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Putin's nerve gas attack hits two more in Britain.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/04/world/europe/salisbury-poison-skripal-amesbury.html
Robert Mueller should be led to a post, secured, and offered a cigarette or a blindfold, then put to death via firing squad.
Very clever. I wonder why nobody else ever thought, before, to attack the investigator, in order to disrupt a criminal investigation.
Oh, wait.
There was this guy, Dutch Schultz, in the 1930's. He wanted to assassinate prosecutor Thomas Dewey before he could bring forth indictments.
Lucky Luciano ordered Schultz to be hit before he could hit Dewey.
Scott Pruitt is running from prosecutors. He may not get very far. He has violated Federal laws and could still be sent to prison.
The worst Pruitt story I heard was that he made young staff members pay for his hotel bills on their own credit cards (to conceal records from the public) and then refused to reimburse them. Classy.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/scott-pruitt-made-aides-pay-for-his-fancy-hotel-stays
It is, again, astonishing, that people who would normally hide and not openly broadcast their crimes are emboldened under Donald Putin to believe that they are invincible.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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So....there IS a "too corrupt" for the Trump WH - Pruitt has resigned.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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ATG! Re your post: Robert Mueller should be led to a post, secured, and offered a cigarette or a blindfold, then put to death via firing squad.
I volunteer.
I'm Impressed!
With your lack of restraint & general far-right idiocy.
More please!
It makes me happy when people like you spew judgemental stupidity.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
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Mr. Trump has said that in the long run, the tariffs will save jobs in the protected industries
The protected industries are in Russia. Putin's long game is to increase Russia's power, and decrease America's power.
“In a few days, domestic companies raised prices on stainless steel anywhere from 15 to 25 percent”
Higher prices in the United States will mean that Russian steel will be more affordable, especially because Mrs. Putin has not put tariffs on Russian imports.
Mrs. Putin is now saying that he is going to enact import tariffs on Chinese products, on top of his existing tariffs on steel and aluminum. China says it has its finger on the button, and will enact their own retaliatory tariffs if Mrs. Putin acts on his threats.
Who the FRICK is still thinking that Donald Putin is a great American president?
This guy is doing nothing but hurting the United States. Everything Mrs. Putin does is against our interests, even if it doesn't benefit Russia. Vladimir Putin is disruptive and chaotic, and wants to spread his country's malaise to the rest of the world. Now, he's got his wife Donald ruining America.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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I will say one thing ,Trump is getting away with all of it.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Oh now come on, ATG !
You have to do better than that, you are giving conservatives a bad name here
Honestly you are embarrassing the Republican Party that you adore so much
you are expected to make your case, explain your points, prove the intellectual depth of your conservatism
so many before you tried, failed and ran away, they just didn't have what you have!
I long for the days of indefensibly weak conservatism - Fattrad, LEB, Nevada Gun Boi, Skippy, etc
so take it away AGV, show us what you got!
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Krease
Gym climber
the inferno
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Hey ATG, shut the f*#k up you trumptard as#@&%e
Scott Pruitt just got driven out of office, lol. See ya later fuktard.
Next up, Andrew wheeler. Good luck as#@&%e
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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So far, he is the greatest president in my lifetime.
Which makes you what? 18 months old?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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is it hard to please a lady, with slushy veins?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Is that you, AGV up front in your red outfit?
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Tom:
Tom, considering your reading comprehension, I recommend to use more copypasting and less of your own words.
"Nerve agent" is not the same as "nerve gas".
You missed even more heinous Putin's crime.
According to one Ukrainian former soccer player, Putin bribed Spanish to ensure their loss to Russia.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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"Nerve agent" is not the same as "nerve gas".
You could not be more wrong -
Nerve agent - Wikipedia
**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_agent
*Nerve agents, sometimes also called nerve gases, are a class of organic chemicals that disrupt ... All such agents function the same way resulting in cholinergic crisis: they inhibit the enzyme**
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Norton, have you read this NYT article yourself?
Have you read any article about Skripals' poisoning?
I think not.
Word "gas" was never mentioned there.
When social media is your main source of (dis)information, your have a significant risk of misunderstanding this (dis)information.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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I am cold; like a beer on ice. I got slush in my veins. You da man. Maybe you should try frozen vodka, much colder and much more Russian. Trolling must be your entertainment and, apparently, your intellectual nadir (you can google it). Man, really, get a life.
Edited to add: Bush Lite?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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ATG! Re your more recent post, after some here were bothered that you had already condemned Republican Robert Muller, & wanted to kill him:
I am cold; like a beer on ice. I got slush in my veins.
And a no thank you I do not spend energy explaining the ins and outs and ups and Downs of a party I only belong to so I could vote for Donald Trump.
So far, he is the greatest president in my lifetime.
It's great for you to spew here, since you do represent what the dark-side of the Republican party thinks & wants.
I used to be a wholesale representative for water filters, camp stoves, & freeze dried food in the northen rockies. I dealt with a lot of great outdoor stores & a few sick-fuks like you, who were preparing for their own war.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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^^^ Well said there, Fritz. I've been noticing in a lot of comments on news website/youtube videos people talking about a civil war. Scary stuff. Sick fuks.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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which leftist?
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John M
climber
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Waco
oh man.. here we go.
....
on a serious note.
Has anyone met an intelligent self proclaimed libertarian who has a cogent argument that isn't based on poor logic and inflammatory nonsense? I have met sane conservatives and liberals who are articulate and can explain and defend their positions well, but I have yet to even read one libertarian whose opinions and arguments aren't flawed in multiple ways. I believe both parties have serious issues, but I have heard well stated arguments which defend why we need both parties, but I haven't heard anything reasonable from the libertarians, other then.. liberals are bad.
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dirtbag
climber
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ATG: Robert Mueller should be led to a post, secured, and offered a cigarette or a blindfold, then put to death via firing squad.
I volunteer.
Anyone want to take a stab at being the bridge here?
(Lol)
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Or try this; name one city in America with Democrats in control that is financially sound.
You mean like El Paso, TX the poorest city in America?
"hast du nichts anderes zu tun"
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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D) want shithole states like California deciding our NATIONAL immigration policy.
why don't you move?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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The Trump administration is suppressing an Environmental Protection Agency report that warns that most Americans inhale enough formaldehyde vapor in the course of daily life to put them at risk of developing leukemia and other ailments, a current and a former agency official told POLITICO.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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^^^ I was just about to share what zBrown did... well, here's a link to more:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/06/epa-formaldehyde-warnings-blocked-696628
edit: playing devil's advocate for a minute... one might say that the EPA should be protecting the environment, and NIH should be protecting our health. Thus, EPA might be construed as doing duplicative work by publishing info about health consequences from formaldehyde. See this from CDC for example:
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/drywall/docs/whatyoushouldknowaboutformaldehyde.pdf
Taking off the devil's advocate hat... it seems these agencies have important complementary roles. NIH should be determining what levels pose a threat, and EPA should be identifying the environments where this threshold is crossed, and also determining what adverse impacts that formaldehyde has on ecosystems and creatures therein.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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^^^^^
another country heard from!
welcome, Fructose
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Does it make me a traitor that a part of me wants to see China win this trade war?
I don't have any desire to see China win this trade war. But I want not only for Trump supporters to lose this trade war, I want them to know that they lost it. But with the echo-chamber that so many live in, that may not happen. Sort of like the anti-elite policy of helping down and out blue collar workers by giving the 0.1% a trillion dollar tax cut.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Does it make me a traitor that a part of me wants to see China win this trade war?
+1
It's going to take a defeat of the us before the trumpsters wake up.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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I will answer Jim,lol.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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believe every unsourced article about Trump
There is plenty of objective evidence, including documents, videotape and multiple witnesses, to demonstrate that the vast majority of Trump's bad press is accurate and factual.
On the other hand, Trump continues to make up lies on a daily basis. His statements are typically at odds with reality, facts and evidence, and only serve to present an alternative, fictitious reality that casts Trump in a more favorable light.
At his campaign rallies, Trump makes stuff up, on the spot, to jerk his audiences off. It is so easy to fact-check Trump's lies, you would think that his supporters would catch on. But, they don't want to catch on. They don't care if Trump tells them absurd lies. They are mesmerized by Trump's cult of personality.
Trump supporters are like people who want to get rid of a cat, because they don't like it. They want some other kind of pet, and they don't care what it is, as long as it's not another cat. A con man pet dealer tells them he's got just the right thing for them.
So, they wind up with a wolverine in the house that chews out the walls, destroys their furniture, bites them and kills their livestock. But, they continue to tell their neighbors that they love "Wolvy", because he's not a cat.
They hope that "Wolvy" will someday act more like a pet, and stop destroying their home and injuring them. Until then, they vociferously defend "Wolvy" and say that he's the best pet in the entire world.
When presented with evidence of "Wolvy's" misbehavior, they say that the scars all over their own bodies are "fake news", and that they don't really exist. They say that the cat, before he was evicted, was the one who chewed out the walls and destroyed the furniture. They claim that the cat sneaks back, at night, and kills their livestock.
No matter what "Wolvy" does, they love and defend him because he is not a cat. For them, "Wolvy" can do no wrong.
The Deal Artist is on track for his golf courses in Scotland to succeed on the same level as his Atlantic City casinos: totally bankrupt.
http://fortune.com/2017/10/09/trump-golf-courses-scotland/
GOP Senators who support Trump went to Moscow (on July 4) to soften up the Russians in advance of Trump's meeting with Putin in Helsinki. The Senators made it clear that they were not there to chastise the Russians for interfering in the 2016 election (they liked the outcome, and were happy to have the help, Federal election laws be damned).
The Senators indicated that the U.S. forgives, and has forgotten, about the election meddling. And, now Trump is ready to appease the Kremlin, and allow the Crimean invasion to stand, unopposed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/republicans-on-russia-trip-face-scorn-and-ridicule-from-critics-at-home/2018/07/05/68f0f810-807e-11e8-b0ef-fffcabeff946_story.html?noredirect=on
The GOP is surrendering to Putin because they're scared of Trump.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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That's a very good analogy.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Dumbest analogy I've ever heard. What are you even talking about?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Keep posting Tom! You are one of the voices of reason on this thread!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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The irony is so blatant ...The chest thumping patriotic trump supporters stock- piling guns and ammo just in case we're invaded by the commies or towel heads and trump getting cyber- assistance from the commies to win the presidency...wasn't that long ago that the dems were being called commie pinkos and looks who's supporting the commies now ...the simpleton trump-putin supporters...the jokes on you ... morons...
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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RJ! A good point!
And it's worth repeating:
wasn't that long ago that the dems were being called commie pinkos and looks who's supporting the commies now ...the simpleton trump-putin supporters...the jokes on you ... morons...
A delegation of Republican Senators visited Russia for the 4th of July, to make nice with the commies, before Trumps has his next meeting with Putin.
The Russian media had a great time making fun of them.
(I have a vision of Trump crawling toward Putin, licking his fat lips, while Putin unzips.)
The Trumpians, & of course the Republicans, now love the commies!
fuking Pinko bastards!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Of course they love the commies...Free mobster campaign money via laundering ...Lots of willing souls ready to follow the other MAGAS off the cliff like lambs to a slaughter...
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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What makes the visit of the 5 Republican (Pinko) Senators to Russia still more fun, is the day they left, is the day the Senate Intelligence Committee released its report:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Senate Intelligence Committee report released on Tuesday supports three U.S. intelligence agencies’ conclusion that Russia tried to help Donald Trump win the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
“As numerous intelligence and national security officials in the Trump administration have since unanimously re-affirmed, the (Intelligence Community Assessment’s) findings were accurate and on point,” said committee Vice Chairman Mark Warner, a Democrat.
“The Russian effort was extensive and sophisticated, and its goals were to undermine public faith in the democratic process, to hurt Secretary Clinton (Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton) and to help Donald Trump,” Warner said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-cyber/senate-panel-backs-intelligence-agencies-on-russia-trump-conclusions-idUSKBN1JT2YB
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Xcon! Per your question, which I suspect you know the answer to, U.S. troops invaded (aka occupied) Russia, after Russia surrendered to Germany in WWI.
I read a book on the adventures our troops had in Russia during the Commie revolution. It wasn't a pleasant adventure, but it was a huge adventure.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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The U.S. paid Russia two cents per acre when we took Alaska.
What did Russia pay Ukraine, when they took Crimea?
Trump said that Crimea belongs to Russia because people in Crimea speak Russian. By that logic, all of the English-speaking nations on earth belong to England.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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MAGA. From the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/opinion/trump-tariffs-harley-davidson-auto.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region
It used to be a refrain of the Republican faithful that the government shouldn’t be in the business of picking winners and losers where industry and technology are concerned.
As President Trump’s global trade war escalates, with the latest round of tariffs going into effect on Friday, his administration is doing just that. The new wrinkle is that it is no longer clear who is being set up to triumph or fail. Tariffs directed at products from one country — whether that’s steel from Canada and China or cars from Italy — are just as likely to affect American companies and hurt their workers.
That message came through loud and clear in recent days during the public comment period on the administration’s proposed tariffs on imported cars and parts. The global auto industry relies on supply chains that were built on the free movement of parts and goods. Suppliers, dealers and car manufacturers in the United States and other countries are petrified by the damage that the tariffs could do to their businesses.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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That article tries to give bikers who belong to a club some sort of intellectual impetus for being in a club. In my experience, most club members are criminals who like to fight f*#k and make money outside the law. They all have full time jobs doing other things as well. There are a bunch in my town and they suck. Then, there are the enthusiasts. They don’t count, but spike the numbers as to riders per capita.
I get what HST was talking about, but outlaw bikers are few and far between these days. The average Harley rider has plenty of cash to throw around.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 10:42am PT
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That garish portrait of Trump is by Ralph Steadman.
I agree that some people at Trump rallies behave like outlaws, whether motorcyclists or not. The level of aggressive fanaticism and violence against outsiders mirrors some of the scenes depicted in Hell's Angels.
Thompson's thesis about the genesis of motorcycle outlaws only partially aligns with the rise of Trumpism.
Trump is an IQ-deflating svengali who deceives his followers for his own personal benefit. He has contempt for them, thinks they are stupid, and acts on the basis that they are stupid and gullible. Trump will say whatever he thinks they want to hear, to keep them appeased at the moment. His actions produce results in opposition to what he promises. Trump's focus is on himself, he victimizes those around him, and he discards them when they are no longer useful to him.
Ralph "Sonny" Barger wouldn't have lasted two days as the leader of the Hell's Angels if he had treated the other members of the group with the contempt that Trump has for his followers.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Gene, 10:46 June 22
That video made my day. And since I do not get Faux News, I never really get to see much from it, except perhaps some of these YouTubes and such. Unbelievable how these sycophants who call themselves objective journalists kiss Trump's fat ass.
I read what people say about Faux News, now I believe it.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Faux News is now the official propaganda ministry for the tRump regime, nothing more. They don’t even try to disguise it any more.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 11:48am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ruper Murdoch owns Fox News.
Rupert Murdoch is a publisher of tabloid-trash papers that specialize in sensationalized fiction, often comprising falsified stories about actual people who are prominent in real newspapers. A common tabloid tactic is to present a SHOUTING HEADLINE, as if a loud statement is inherently factual.
The National Enquirer isn't owned by Rupert Murdoch, but it is the tabloid that Americans are most familiar with because it is a grocery store staple.
When Murdoch bought the Fox companies, he applied the tabloid-trash National Enquirer-type business model to Fox News. Fox News presents sensationalized fiction, often comprising falsified stories about actual people who are prominent in real news stories. A common Fox News tactic is to present a SHOUTING PERFORMER, as if a loud statement is inherently factual.
Fox News is to CNN, as The National Enquirer is to The New York Times.
Trump has openly stated his admiration for the National Enquirer and falsely claimed that it has a high standard of journalistic integrity.
The publisher, David Pecker, and Trump are close friends and business associates. Pecker coordinated with Trump's campaign staff during the 2016 campaign to run falsified stories about Hillary Clinton, such as her having serious health problems. The falsified stories were intended to give Trump an advantage in the election.
American Media, the publisher of the National Enquirer, was utilized during the 2016 campaign as the money-conduit when Trump needed to pay off his Playboy Bunny mistress, Karen McDougal, to keep her quiet. American Media paid McDougal as part of a fraudulent contract for McDougal's writing, which was never published.
Trump is now, officially, linked with Fox News through his new communications director, Bill Shine. Shine is a former Fox News executive who was fired over a sex scandal at the network.
Fox News' star cash-cow, Sean Hannity, calls Trump on a regular basis to compare lies and to get their falsified stories aligned.
Previously, Trump was involved in WWE fake wrestling, including being a fake wrestler during the shows. WWE fake wrestling is to actual sports, as Fox News is to factual reporting.
Vince and Linda McMahon are the owners of WWE fake wrestling. Linda McMahon is now Trump's director of the Small Business Administration.
Trump embraces and endorses The National Enquirer, Fox News, and WWE fake wrestling.
So, it is only natural that Trump's political strategy is to present a non-stop series of lies and fiction, and to present an imaginary fake-reality to his supporters as if it were real.
Google "Trump Hannity echo chamber", or "Trump Fox News echo chamber", to find many instances of when Trump and Fox have almost immediately repeated what the other has said. Trump's Twitter record is especially useful, because his early morning tirades are date-stamped, and it is easy to see that he often echoes whatever Fox and Friends had said only a few minutes before.
Similarly, Sean Hannity will echo something that Trump said earlier that day, and then attempt to legitimize it by showing similar echoes from other Fox News performers.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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What's your unbiased news source, ATG?
Same one that says Soros funds Antifa?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Well ATG
here is the difference
"Fox News" is the official media arm of the Republican Party
Every session from Hannity to The Five is 100% "right wing biased" personal opinion
and this is the important difference between Fox and CNN - Fox's "opinion" mouth pieces
without fail flat out "lie" and they lie constantly and effortlessly, and you will only very rarely find someone from the political left on their panel shows, they just don't invite them
in fact there are entire web sites dedicated only to pointing and correcting every lie
go to "mediamatters.com"
now CNN in addition to reporting regular "verifed" news from feeds such a Reuters also
has panels like Fox but their is almost always a conservative on the panel to fairly present the conservative take
ok, get the difference now? think on it a couple of days...think "lies" and "no lies"
look at it another way, when people on Fox lie they never apologize and correct their lies
that would be admitting they were wrong, someone a conservative virtually never does
because they look at being proven wrong as something to ignore, to deny, to lie again
when people on CNN report a news item incorrectly they immediate apologize and correct the error, and these are minor errors such as a news feed gave the name of a source wrong
get it now?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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I never rely on just one source. If you do, you are begging to be manipulated.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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The over analysis of the Hell's angels
Leaves out an awful lot
More like it
At the end of Hell’s Angels, having spent months with the motorcycle guys, Thompson finally gets stomped by them. For some offense he doesn’t understand (and which he probably didn’t commit), Thompson gets punched, bloodied, kicked in the face and in the ribs, spat at and pissed on. He limps off to a hospital in the dead of night, alone and afraid. Only in that moment does Thompson realize that as a journalist (and therefore a member of the elite), he could not possibly be a true friend of the Angels.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
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Fox News hosts (more like, parasites) have stated that all other print, TV and cable news outlets present "fake news". Trump falsely claims that Fox News is a legitimate source of news and information. This is because Fox repeats Trumps lies as if they were the truth, and promotes his imaginary fake-reality.
Fox News alleges that all other news sources (e.g., CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Chicago Tribune, Miami Herald, Louisville Courier-Journal, Atlanta Constitution, The London Times, et al) are FAKE NEWS because they all report the same stories with the same facts, which conflict with Fox News' divergent falsehoods.
In other words, Fox News alleges that all other news outlets' stories are falsified, and only Fox News stories are factual and correct.
Insofar as reality is a democratic process, Fox News is the fake news.
Trump wants to destroy democracy, and install himself as a dictator. Part of his plan is to destroy the democracy of reality, and install his fake-reality.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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What's your unbiased news source, ATG?
Same one that says Soros funds Antifa?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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tRump and his propaganda wing have to maintain their alternate reality at all costs. Facts are not their friends.
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ExfifteenExfifteen
climber
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Fox News states that all other news sources (e.g., CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Chicago Tribune, Miami Herald, Louisville Courier-Journal, Atlanta Constitution, The London Times, et al) are FAKE NEWS because they all report the same stories with the same facts, which conflict with Fox News' divergent falsehoods.
Doesn't Robert Murdoch own Fox News AND Wall Street Journal. Oh, I know the Wall Street Journal isn't on par with Fox News, but it sounds like you're reaching just because it sounds good... or maybe I just don't get your hyperbole that you must use to make your solid point...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
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The Wall Street Journal is owned by Murdoch, but continues to maintain a high degree of editorial independence. Murdoch didn't block the WSJ when they broke the Stormy Daniels payoff story, for example. Fox News, especially the commentators, are often at odds with what the Wall Street Journal prints. The Journal's reporting on the Mueller investigation, as another example, has been largely in line with other legitimate news outlets, like CNN and New York Times. The Journal, for instance, doesn't claim that the Mueller investigation is a "witch hunt", the way Fox News does.
Murdoch's schizophrenic behavior, with respect to the Journal, is a survival mechanism for the paper.
Intelligent people, who don't read Murdoch's salacious tabloids, tend to be the Wall Street Journal's customer base. If Murdoch shifted the Journal into a tabloid-trash mode, like Fox News, he would lose that customer base. People who read the Journal are generally business people who are capable of perceiving, assimilating and processing factual information, and who can discern ludicrous nonsense from reality.
Murdoch also owns the Sky News channel in England, which presents reporting that is not as biased as Fox News. That is because Sky News operates under United Kingdom broadcasting rules that require impartial and unbiased news reporting.
Some viewers believe that Sky News is biased, and that Murdoch is pushing the envelope of what is allowed under his UK broadcasting license.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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"Fox News" is the official media arm of the Republican Party
Every session from Hannity to The Five is 100% "right wing biased" personal opinion
and this is the important difference between Fox and CNN - Fox's "opinion" mouth pieces
without fail flat out "lie" and they lie constantly and effortlessly, and you will only very rarely find someone from the political left on their panel shows, they just don't invite them
Nice pack of lies, Norton.
Juan Williams is a regular on The Five. He's usually offering counterpoint to the other four.
The other evening programs regularly have leftwing guests.
IMO CNN isn't as biased as Fox. But MSNBC is probably more biased, more of an echo chamber than Fox.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
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Pure hell would be having only two shows available, 24/7: Sean Hannity on Fox and Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.
Those two are separate, but equal, purveyors of irritating noise.
Fox News apparently does some legitimate reporting, but it gets lost in all the hyper-partisan, bombastic noise coming from the commentators. Fox News stirs turds into the soup, and expects people to swallow it, anyway, because they are too stupid to know the difference.
I don't try to find legitimate news on Fox. I can find it many other places, and I don't need to filter out the barrage of distracting, biased noise. I don't see the point in playing a game of "Where's Waldo?" in order to obtain indisputable and easily confirmed facts and information.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I offer up a CNN list of all the times North Korea agree to suspend or reduce their nuclear weapons & missile program.
In hindsight, it appears North Korea never suspended or reduced either.
But! Trump's been trumpeting that he got it done on his first try! What a guy!
But Wait! As of this weekend, it appears the North Koreans are not agreeing.
The Washington Post: —Hours after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo hailed his two-day visit to Pyongyang as a “productive” round of “good-faith negotiations,” North Korea on Saturday sharply criticized U.S. negotiators’ attitude during the talks as “regrettable” and “robber-like,” accusing the United States of making unilateral demands to denuclearize.
In a sharp signal that denuclearization negotiations with North Korea will be drawn out and difficult, Pyongyang on Saturday lambasted the U.S. stance as regrettable, gangster-like and cancerous, directly contradicting Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s rosy assessment that his two days of talks had been “productive.”
A harsh statement from an unnamed spokesman for the Foreign Ministry was carried on the state-run Korea Central News Agency just hours after Pompeo left Pyongyang Saturday, telling reporters significant progress had been made “in every element” of what he characterized as “good faith negotiations.” Pyongyang crushed that appraisal, saying the United States had betrayed the spirit of the June 12 Singapore summit between President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.
“The U.S. side came up only with its unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization,” the statement said. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-calls-us-attitude-toward-talks-%E2%80%98regrettable%E2%80%99-%E2%80%98robber-like%E2%80%99-rejecting-pompeo%E2%80%99s-assessment/ar-AAzGUx9?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1
Here’s the list of all the other failures with North Korea:
1985
North Korea signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
1993
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) demands that inspectors be given access to two nuclear waste storage sites. In response, North Korea threatens to quit the NPT but eventually opts to continue participating in the treaty.
1994
North Korea and the United States sign an agreement. North Korea pledges to freeze and eventually dismantle its old, graphite-moderated nuclear reactors in exchange for international aid to build two new light-water nuclear reactors.
2005
North Korea tentatively agrees to give up its entire nuclear program, including weapons. In exchange, the United States, China, Japan, Russia and South Korea say they will provide energy assistance to North Korea, as well as promote economic cooperation.
2006
July - After North Korea test fires long range missiles, the UN Security Council passes a resolution demanding that North Korea suspend the program.
October - North Korea claims to have successfully tested its first nuclear weapon. The test prompts the UN Security Council to impose a broad array of sanctions.
2007
February 13 - North Korea agrees to close its main nuclear reactor in exchange for an aid package worth $400 million.
September 30 - At six-party talks in Beijing, North Korea signs an agreement stating it will begin disabling its nuclear weapons facilities.
December 31 - North Korea misses the deadline to disable its weapons facilities.
2008
June 27 - North Korea destroys a water cooling tower at the Yongbyon nuclear facility.
December - Six-party talks are held in Beijing. The talks break down over North Korea's refusal to allow international inspectors unfettered access to suspected nuclear sites.
2011
October 24-25 - US officials meet with a North Korean delegation in Geneva, Switzerland, in an effort to restart the six-party nuclear arms talks that broke down in 2008.
2012
February 29 - The State Department announces that North Korea has agreed to a moratorium on long-range missile launches and nuclear activity at the nation's major nuclear facility in exchange for food aid.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html
By the way, if you still believe Trump is going to get North Korea to give us their nuclear weapons, I have some prime sagebrush grazing land in Idaho, you might well be interested in.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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Trump wants to obtain at least 61 visas for immigrant workers at his Mar-A-Lago country club resort in Florida.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/06/politics/mar-a-lago-foreign-workers-request/index.html
Trump wants to import immigrant cooks, waitresses and housekeepers so that he doesn't have to pay reasonable wages.
Trump claims that no Americans are willing to do the work he has for them. But, since 2010, Trump has rejected 95% of the Americans who have applied for those jobs at Mar-A-Lago.
He has filed at least 10 requests for H-2B visas for immigrant workers.
California Representative Devin Nunes derailed the House investigation into Russian meddling. In return for Nunes' loyalty, Trump is bending him double, like a safety pin.
Nunes is a dairyman, and like others nationwide, has been hit hard by Trump's Levitral trade war. Exports of Nunes' products are way down, prices are falling, and profits are disappearing.
The national stockpile of surplus cheese is at its highest level since records began in 1917. Cheese prices, and profits for milk producers, are expected to plummet significantly as the government's buy-back program becomes saturated, and the National Cheese Depository fills to capacity.
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/nation-world/national/article214394849.html#storylink=hpdigest
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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But,The Economy is doing Great.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Its amazing to me that there are people who see CNN as an unbiased news source.
bias means a news network "lies" about current event facts to support their opinions
CNN absolutely does not do that, neither does MSNBC, FOX lies constantly
go to https://www.mediamatters.org where they keep a close eye on who is lying to the public to verify this
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Edward,
Juan Williams is the token black on Fox News, just to show they are "fair and balanced"
he is an occasional, not a regular contributor
if you really believe CNN, Fox, and MSNBC are the "same" in lying bias then prove it
you cannot, go to https://www.mediamatters.org
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
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The style of delivery, alone, at Fox News should be a red flag to anybody with a brain. When someone starts raising their voice, it is an indication of desperation. They can't argue their point on its merits, so they'll do the next best thing: intimidate the listener into submission.
When Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pirro are ranting and raving, looking like they're about to burst an aneurysm, they don't have any valid content to offer. But, that is the point of Fox News: their bombastic delivery is intended as entertainment, not information.
The Fox News commentators are like those TV preachers who swing through the four compass points of emotional extremes within a half-hour broadcast, with a final, exhausted appeal for money. With any luck, the audience itself will be exhausted (and susceptible) just from watching the bizarre performance.
The best way to consume Hannity & Co. is to watch them on another news channel, like CNN, or MSNBC. You get to see the video clip while reading a transcript of whatever crazy things they are saying.
It's always more entertaining when you can read, as well as hear, sheer lunacy being presented as if it were wisdom.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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I enjoyed how trump talked about himself in the third person at that Montana rally.
However, he doesn't have mental problems. Okie dokie
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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I was wondering when someone would bring that up ,HS.
Can’t go to NY or Cali, but,they love him in Great Falls,Montana.
North Korea ,not so much.
Proud
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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However, he doesn't have mental problems. Okie dokie
LoL...coming from fools who waste EVERY day of their lives here spewing nonsense on this dumb thread.
Brainwashed fools....and the REAL bigot/haters. Look up the definition...ya'll fit right in.
When are you pussies going to go into the real world and confront trump-ster's? Like real men.
The 15-20 of you here lo0zers need to get it together and really do something. YOU can do it!!!
Go f**k with some evil people you don't agree with. They must be Nazi's right?
Until then....you are yuuuuge nut-swinging pussies.
Six more years of this dumb thread haha
BTW.....Do you get to vote legally xcon or are you a felon?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Posting on these politard threads is probably a waste of time, but...
The above comments about CNN and Fox are truly cringe-worthy, so, speaking as a journalist with commie-pinko-Canadian-socialist leanings, I suggest that those of you who think CNN is in any way a real news source should get back on your meds. Yeah, sure, Fox is not exactly "fair and balanced", but these days it is far more fair and balanced than CNN.
Seriously.
Until recently -- about two or three years ago -- I'd go to CNN as a source for what was going on in the US. Now? It has now become just a bottomless well of "Trump Sucks!" Nearly all of the CNN top stories in the last couple of years have not been news, but opinion pieces. All sharing the same opinion that TRUMP SUCKS.
Sure, Trump does suck. But there is more going on in the world than just Trump sucking. Unfortunately you won't learn about it on CNN.
My work requires me to be immersed in the political/financial/business news worldwide. And there is no shortage of really good journalism out there.
You just won't find any of it on CNN.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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This post is dedicated to the wailing moron. I know who he is even if you don't.
Did Ike have affairs? Well not as many as Ike Turner, but probably.
Never grabbed any women by the pussy though.
Vote gay - possible in the 1950's ?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Go to their page right now, plenty of news. Lead story is cave rescue.
Went to both CNN and Fox immediately before posting. Fox had a far more balanced view of what was going in the US and the world.
Which isn't saying much, because neither of them is worth reading. They've both gone far from "news" and way into "entertainment".
Search the world treez, and you'll soon find that Fox and CNN are bottom-of-the-barrel scrapers.
Real news, real journalism, is still alive and well. Just not so much in the US.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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bias means a news network "lies" about current event facts to support their opinions
CNN absolutely does not do that, neither does MSNBC, FOX lies constantly
Yikes!! Behold the white noise stare of the new Craig Fry.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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I do try to keep up with the news in America, but with no TV channels, I rely on the internet.
As I see it, Fox is totally biased, I do go to its website now and then and see some videos. Unbelievably biased as far as I can tell. MSN, yes it leans to the left, CNN (I turned down a job with them July 1994, fact I can scan and post the letter of a job offer, but why bother), not that bad.
I do try to visit occasionally things like Breitbart to keep a finger on the pulse. Drudge is and has been a total load of crap since Matt Drudge surfaced. So, perhaps some of you should look elsewhere unless you want crap.
Yes, as I have posted, I am a liberal but I do try to be objective most of the time (unless wine comes into play, hah hah). I am not a snowflake anymore than some Trumpites, I am not butt hurt. I just believe and feel Trump is totally wrong for America. Ship him off to Russia.
As a journalist and writer (and zoologist) working in five countries for nearly 45 years, I am confident when I write that I have always been objective as a reporter. As a columnist, op-ed writer and editorialist, I do let my beliefs known.
But I believe it is safe to say, things are not healthy in America, looking from the outside in. Take that anyway you like.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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I do not necessarily agree Ghost, CNN is not that bad. Fox is far worst when it comes to American political news, as I see it but I could be wrong. Again, I mainly rely on those organizations' websites not their broadcasts. So perhaps I am probably not seeing the "total" picture of their 'editorial' output.
And I have worked on Murdoch publications. I have a few choice words for him.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Norton,
More lies? Really?
Juan Williams is a regular cohost on The Five. He's part of the team.
Token black? What about Harris Faulkner?
Back to your previous lie about Fox being 100% right wing, most of their prime time shows have left leaning guests on a fairly regular basis.
I never claimed CNN is as biased as Fox. Derp.
Hey ground chuck- you know who's sinking the ship? The "hooray Socialism, end ICE" Democrats. The midterms are right around the corner.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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those democrats are screwed if they keep saying things 75% of all americans want
Like what?
Are you referring to my "end ICE" comment?
From a recent Harris poll:
A majority of voters want immigration reform (73%) and secure borders (76%). Voters also want stricter enforcement of immigration laws (70%). Voters support prosecuting immigrants who cross the border illegally (53%) and sending these immigrants home (64%). A majority (55%) also stand against so-called “catch and release” policies.
Your Robert Reich piece is laughable.
Meanwhile, all the economy’s gains have gone to the richest ten percent, mostly the top 1 percent.
Apparently, he's not aware of the 600,000 new jobs in the 2nd quarter.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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a majority of rational people support stronger enforcement of anti-emolument law.
does that surfeit of new jobs include those dozens of foreign worker visa jobs at Mar a lago? does that boon of new jobs include mainly throwaway work in dying industries or is it centered in mainstay industries of the future? yes Donnie, I know we need more pudding scrubbers and people to clean the piss off the sheets, but those jobs suuu-uhck
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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America must respond to the calamity that’s befallen the working class
If America doesn’t respond to the calamity that’s befallen the working class, we will have Trumps as far as the eye can see.
A few Democrats are getting the message – pushing ambitious ideas like government-guaranteed full employment, single-payer health care, industry-wide collective bargaining, and a universal basic income.
Even though the down and out Trump supporters would be among the ones that would get the greatest benefit from some of those policies, partisan identity politics has made them very hostile to all of those.
What most really want is good paying jobs, respect, and strong communities. But in small towns, and some not so small towns, good paying jobs aren't coming back and a lot of young workers leave to find jobs elsewhere. A few towns will hit the lottery and buck the trend but that is the exception.
What they are most responding to is lies: I will bring back coal and manufacturing jobs and the politics of resentment. If Obama created it, I will gleefully destroy it. I may be living in poverty but at least I can have fun making libtards mad.
I don't really see how Dems make much progress among those voters without engaging in the same sorts of tactics. Hillary actually had a lot of wonkish policies. They got zero media attention and did her no good on the campaign trail.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
Etc. etc. WTF? Is this really what they were proposing? How were they going to pay for the military without taxes? Privatization of Inland Waterways? Wow. Guess they probably wanted to get rid of the 'justice' system. Would prisoners pay for their jails? How would that work, as they can't actually hold (except the $1/day stuff in prison) jobs while jailed unless.... slavery. Oh, oh, what about debtor's prison? Good ideas all.....
There are some real wackos out there. Oh, also, the Constitution requires a postal system........
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
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U.S. Opposition to Breast-Feeding Resolution Stuns World Health Officials
Trump's latest act of international terrorism was to use economic threats to derail a WHO resolution to promote breast feeding.
Ecuador dropped its widely-applauded proposal after U.S. WHO delegates threatened the country with trade sanctions and loss of economic aid.
The U.S. delegates objected to the resolution's disclosure that commercial baby formula has been shown to be unhealthy for babies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breastfeeding-ecuador-trump.html
The official U.S. position is that corporate profits are more important than the health of babies.
Trump's tactic of bullying a foreign nation into economic submission recalls the British army attacking China until they agreed to accept opium in lieu of silver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Trump was all about breast feeding until Stormy gave him a mouthful and took a video of his messy diaper change...Avenatti has the video and Cohen is jumping ship...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2018 - 11:06am PT
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The leaders of the Brexit movement in the United Kingdom are jumping ship as it becomes more obvious that leaving the European Union will lead to economic chaos and crisis. The Brexit rats chewed holes in the hull of the good ship Britain, and now that it's going down, they're fleeing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/09/world/europe/david-davis-brexit-resign.html
Brexit front man and British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson resigned today. David Davis, Britain's chief Brexit negotiator with the EU, resigned yesterday. The Brexiters who created a huge mess for the UK are abandoning their disastrous cause, and leaving it for other, non-Brexiters, to clean up.
Like the U.S. Presidential election in 2016, the Brexit election was perverted by Russian interference and disinformation. Putin's plans for disruption and chaos in the West are working in Britain.
Trump is going to Britain this week. As Putin's stooge, he endorses the Brexit decision, and hopes that the European Union will break apart completely. Trump is expected to be antagonistic to British Prime Minister Theresa May's plans to maintain trade relations with the EU.
Trump has done nothing, or less than nothing, to prevent Russian interference in 2018 elections.
There is a Brexit-like referendum on the California ballot, Citizens for Cal 3, which proposes splitting the state into three parts. The idea is to gain four more U.S. Senators in Congress. Even if local voters approve of the split, Federal approval of the scheme is highly unlikely. Congress would have to approve the addition of any new states to the union, even places currently within the United States.
One of the main backers of Citizens for Cal 3 is tech billionaire Tim Draper. He has surreptitiously hired a political strategist who was instrumental in the success of the Brexit campaign.
The Brexit political strategy was that "facts don't work" when luring voters to support a nonsensical proposal.
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/state/california/article214403694.html#storylink=hpdigest
Arron Banks, the main financial backer of Leave.EU, previously credited Gunster for crafting an "America-style media approach" and advising him that "facts don't work," according to The Guardian. Banks told The Guardian that campaigns have to "connect with people emotionally. It's the Trump success."
Great post, MGuzzy.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
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Trump's White House staffers, and some GOP members of Congress, are whining that the administration's highly-unpopular policies are causing irate citizens to confront them in public. At least six incidents, involving Mitch McConnell, Scott Pruitt, Stephen Miller, Kirstjen Nielsen, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Kellyanne Conway, have been reported in the news. Some, like Stephen Miller, have been harangued multiple times.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Viciousness-Trump-aides-endure-public-fury-13059587.php
The GOP, which is the party of intolerance, and the Trump administration, which has called for physical violence against political opponents, are now asking for tolerance and civility towards themselves.
To those whiners, especially Kellyanne Conway, I say:
"The irate citizens gave alternative civility."
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feeling harrassed are they?
Facism has consequences.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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MAGA.
Donald Trump’s tariffs on Chinese goods won’t touch Ivanka Trump’s foreign-made products for her fashion line.
While Trump rails at Harley-Davidson motorcycles for moving some production to Europe to dodge EU tariffs, the first daughter and senior White House adviser has never manufactured a single product for her Ivanka Trump brand on American soil.
Trump enacted tariffs Friday morning on $34 billion worth of Chinese goods, affecting hundreds of products from boats to medical devices and auto parts. Products spared include those manufactured by his daughter.
That means Chengdu Kameido Shoes in Sichuan province can continue to supply shoes for the Ivanka Trump brand as it has in the past. It’s currently bidding for a new contract to manufacture 140,000 pairs of shoes for Trump’s company, a spokesman told The South China Morning Post.
Hangzhou HS Fashion in Zhejiang province also said it’s filling orders for orders for the G-III Apparel Group, which supplies shoes to Trump’s brand.
Until January 2017 all of Ivanka Trump’s products were made in factories in China and Hong Kong, research director Chris Rogers at Panjiva, a global trade data tracking company headquartered in New York, told Politico. Since then, some manufacturing has apparently been moved to other overseas factories in Indonesia, South Korea and Vietnam. Courtesy MSN Money.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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I haven't followed this thread all that much, so I apologize if somebody has already pointed this out.
I started wondering, if Trump was otherwise the same -- all the demonstrable lying, self-promotion, cheating in business, multiple bankruptcies, cheating on his wives, not revealing his taxes, oh yeah, tweeting, insulting our allies, etc., -- but for liberal causes, would you expect that 80 percent or more of Democrats would approve of him at this point? I'm pretty sure, not. And the reason is this; conservatives are willing to let the character issues slide as long as their ideology and (generally losing) position in the culture wars is felt to be properly represented. Without ideology, the average human being would be revolted by Donald Trump. I mean, let's just say he was a movie character. Is he going to be your hero?
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Trump
climber
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facts don’t work. Oh yea, there’s a fact. Too bad we weren’t the ones who learned that fact, when we learned to believe the “facts” that we believe.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I started wondering, if Trump was otherwise the same -- all the demonstrable lying, self-promotion, cheating in business, multiple bankruptcies, cheating on his wives, not revealing his taxes, oh yeah, tweeting, etc., -- but for liberal causes, would you expect that 80 percent or more of Democrats would approve of him at this point? I'm pretty sure, not. And the reason is this; conservatives are willing to let the character issues slide as long as their ideology and (generally losing) position in the culture wars is felt to be properly represented. Without ideology, the average human being would be revolted by Donald Trump. I mean, let's just say he was a movie character.
Case in point: Al Franken
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
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Propaganda bots have a poor command of the English language.
Brexit political strategist Gunther stated that "facts don't work" when promoting an illogical and nonsensical political proposal to voters. His statement meant that it is counter-productive to present facts when promoting a nonsensical proposal.
In other words, he said that "facts don't work" when you are attempting to deceive voters into acting against their own self-interest. If intelligent voters obtain facts about a nonsensical proposal, they will reject it.
Gunther said that pushing a nonsensical proposal needs to be done through emotional appeal, because in that situation "facts don't work".
At no time did anyone, Gunther or otherwise, say that in all situations "facts don't work", and, therefore, we should abandon all faith in facts and accept the non-factual BS-13 that Trump and his administration present to us.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Drywall going up- steel and lumber already up.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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conservatives are willing to let the character issues slide as long as their ideology and (generally losing) position in the culture wars is felt to be properly represented. Without ideology, the average human being would be revolted by Donald Trump. I mean, let's just say he was a movie character. Is he going to be your hero?
It depends on what you mean by "character issues". If a politician cheats on his wife, I would generally say that is between the politician and his wife. If a politician is going to go on and on about family values and opposition to gay rights, and then it turns out they get caught in bed with a male prostitute, that is absolutely something they should be called on.
I don't care about Trump's cheating. I do care that he lies about simple facts and his supporters go along with it. I do care that he reduces our politics to the level of kindergarten taunts. I do care that he seems to believe that the levers of government exist to serve his political purposes ("lock her up", "can you see your way to letting this go"). I do care that he is dissing our European allies and sucking up to Putin. I do care that he is attacking the checks and balances that exists to, among other things, limit the power of the presidency. I do care that he is doing real damage to unwritten political norms. I do care it is hard to imagine what it would actually take for a president to have financial conflict of interest in the post-Trump world. And I could go on and on, but for the moment, I won't.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Contractor ,I hear you.
Any of this prolonged and well....
It is damn near funny,the Trump supporters are backing his every move,even here.
Careless of who all of this may affect. It is really going to bite them in the ass when all this division hits the populace and it’s economy.
Delusional thoughts?
Hardly.
You know when I am a democratic socialist , I am for you and I am for me.
Anything else , not so much.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Feeling harrassed are they? Facism has consequences.
YOU are the fascist Jon. Maybe people will come to your hospital bed and harass you for what you believe.
Harass you while you try to heal, sleep and spend time with your family.
If you support this kind of behavior you are truly a fascist c**t.
When you get well, grow some balls and go harass these people that you hate but don't know.
Applies to all of the ST-pussies.
#keyboardcowards#
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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So get thee gone, the fascist, intolerable far left extremists Democrats, to the dust bin of history where ye belong and take your KKK and your borderless utopia with you. I
You need to visit a dictionary.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Homan, throttle back just a smidge my love, I can't bear to lose you again.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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We could call him names right here on the net,but ,why.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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You do need to visit a dictionary.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Crisis actors, believe them. Lol
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Let's take quick break from the Trump bashing (much of which is deserved) to congratulate the nomination of Judge Kavanaugh to SCOTUS.
He has impeccable credential (Yale undergrad and law school, clerked for recently retired Justice Kennedy, among others), is a textualist and a strict constructionist, and will do much to restore the lustre of SCOTUS which suffered so many years under activist judges who tried to impose their will on the American people, untethered from any reasonable interpretation of the Constitution.
This is a great day for the Constitution.
(I'm a little worried about reproductive rights, which I strongly support, but we can't support or oppose a judge just because he or she may decide a case that has implications we don't like--we have to respect the process and the proper role of the judiciary, which is quite limited. Just call the balls and strikes as Chief Justice Roberts says--none of this legislating from the bench business.)
Oh and Ginsburg and Sotomeyer (and to a lesser extent Kagan and Breyer) are just going to have so suck some lemons for a good, long while :)
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Looks like Trump's making America great again, one judge at a time. 😁😁😁
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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I would like to say ,Good for you,but,It will not be.
Yee Haw.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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My problem with Kavanaugh is his opinions on executive power. Though that is also my problem with Congress since 9/11- way too much deference to the executive branch. Otherwise known as lack of spine. In any case he seems quite qualified. I'm sure I will disagree with most of his opinions!
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dirtbag
climber
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Woohoo, another hardcore right winger.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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This Querencia Phase thing seems to be lasting a really really long time. Maybe it never was? Anyhow, wake me when it's over. Say around 2021?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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The Querencia phase is over.
Did he show his tax returns?
Certainly that will exonerate him.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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I'm sure this nominee will make his way onto the court and maybe Trump will even get to appoint another justice, though at some point people will tire of a nutcase right wing court. In my opinion McConnell's move on Garland will come back to haunt the country. It was a wrong that will be at some point "righted", either through court packing or judicial impeachment. His was the the first step towards a banana republic judiciary.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2018 - 09:29pm PT
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An extended querencia phase is not the same thing as a querencia phase that has ended.
The Mueller investigation is, admittedly, taking longer than expected. But, it continues to produce results, and it continues to move forward.
Notice that the New York Attorney General's office took almost two years to bring forth a civil lawsuit to eliminate and redress Trump's fraudulent charitable company, The Trump Foundation. That case was much simpler, because it mainly required examining readily-available bank and tax records.
Mueller's investigation is much more complex. He is being very thorough and careful. He is only going to get one shot at taking down the monster. If he only injures it, and it survives, it will be a catastrophe for Western Civilization.
Trump is currently riding a lull in the storm to his highest approval ratings yet (about 40%, lower than any other recent president).
Trump is basking in the eye of the hurricane, putting on his bathing suit and heading to the beach, because the sun came out and the wind stopped.
The forthcoming Category 5 litigation will soon be upon him.
women will just have to go to underground doctors that will spring up overnight
I used to work in the medical device industry. If I have to, I will produce and sell the necessary DIY equipment on eBay. Most of the components, like endoscope cameras, are readily available, and coming down in price all the time.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Mueller is doing a very professional job. Thorough, balanced, beyond criticism. The classic investigator/prosecutor. Not jumping to conclusions, not blabbing to the news media, running a tight ship. Which will make the eventual results all the more telling.
It seems probable that Mueller will recommend that Trump be charged with various income tax, collusion and other crimes, and leave it to the courts to decide if he can be charged while in office, and if so for what. I'd guess that they'll eventually find that he can be charged and tried while in office for crimes committed before he took office - via regular indictment, in the courts. For crimes committed after he took office, via impeachment.
Machiavelli: "If you strike at a king, you must kill him." You only get one chance to charge and try someone.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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It was a wrong that will be at some point "righted", either through court packing . . .
Now that would be the start of some real troubles.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 10, 2018 - 06:22am PT
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This Querencia Phase thing seems to be lasting a really really long time. Maybe it never was? Anyhow, wake me when it's over. Say around 2021?
Or even 2025.
This thread's title cracks me up on a regular basis. Querencia Phase... Trump's last stand... his end is near.
Meanwhile, he's just cruising along... doing his thing, with little blowback or resistance.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2018 - 12:26pm PT
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Meanwhile, he's just cruising along... doing his thing, with little blowback or resistance.
Alternative facts are not facts. They are falsehoods.
Chuck "He's A Sleepy Son of a Bitch" Todd
A major point of blowback and resistance is that Tesla is following Harley-Davidson's lead, and moving manufacturing operations overseas.
In response to Trump's Art of the Deal trade war, China placed a 40% tariff on electric cars made in America. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Tesla will build its next car factory in China, not in the United States.
And, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that China will enforce its immigration laws to stop American whitebacks from crossing the border, invading the country, and taking Tesla jobs away from Chinese citizens.
#MCGA
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-china-20180710-story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/business/tesla-china-shanghai.html
Tesla began planning the Shanghai factory about a year ago, 6 months into the Trump Presidency, which continued it's bellicose campaign rhetoric about trade protectionism.
Tesla's decision to build it's new factory in China, instead of in America, was prescient and shrewd. The 40% Chinese tariff on electric cars was enacted only a few weeks ago. Tesla got a head start by recognizing that Trump is an unhinged madman, and the best strategy is to move operations outside his sphere of interference.
China's steep tariffs on electric cars is intended to give Chinese companies an advantage in the developing industry. Tesla's move out of the United States will ensure that America falls behind, and China moves ahead.
#MCGA
Trump's attorneys are now saying that Trump will sit down for an interview with Robert Mueller, but only if the following two conditions are met:
1 - Mueller must present evidence that Trump has committed a crime
2 - Trump's testimony must be necessary in order for the investigation to be completed.
1 - This is a childish ploy to coerce prosecutors into showing their hand to Trump. Mueller is correctly investigating what, if any, crimes were committed. He has no obligation to reveal evidence to a potential suspect, and he has many reasons to specifically not reveal any evidence.
Trump's demand ostensibly will give him all the cards. If evidence is lacking, Trump does not have to testify. If evidence is presented, Trump can invoke the Fifth Amendment, and does not have to testify. Either way, Trump does not have to testify. Very clever.
2 - If Trump's testimony is necessary for the conclusion of the investigation, but Trump does not testify (see above), then the investigation can never be concluded. Therefore, Trump will insist that the investigation be shut down, right now, because there is no point in its continuing forever, with no possible conclusion. Very clever.
Mueller is also very clever. He can subpoena Trump, the same way Nixon and Clinton were successfully subpoenaed. Mueller doesn't have to enter into an agreement that hinders his investigation.
And, it isn't necessary for Mueller to interview Trump. A prosecutor can obtain a conviction without interviewing a suspect.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 10, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
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The U.S. emitted 15.6 metric tons of CO2 per person in 1950. After rising for decades, it’s declined in recent years to 15.8 metric tons per person in 2017, the lowest measured levels in 67 years.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 10, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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This Querencia Phase thing seems to be lasting a really really long time. Maybe it never was? Anyhow, wake me when it's over. Say around 2021?
Yeah, the OP absolutely titled the thread wrong.
It should have read:
American has entered the Querencia Phase of its Democracy.
We just need the new Supreme Court to deliver the coup de grace by making Trump, Totalitarian in Chief, or whatever pet title he prefers.
Although you don't know for sure, I'm guessing Trump lives longer than 2021...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 10, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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The lady holding the baby looks like she just got grabbed by the grabber in chief..He's always winning...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 10, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
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Trump pardons steve and dwight hammond the oregon arsonist who were doing time for illegal poaching and starting fires to hide the evidence...Another witch hunt nipped in the bud....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 10, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
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Trump is played by Putin just like he was played by Bannon. No wonder Putin wanted him in the White House
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 10, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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ATF spoke adoringly about his boi...
Politics is 90% hyperbole and 5% lies.
yet you had no problem voting for the most prolific liar in Presidential history
do tell us why was his lying is so appealing to you?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 10, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
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ATG, if you don't mind...what business are you in? I'm a home builder in San Diego county and had many subs I work with lose their homes.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 10, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
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Trump chose Kavanaugh just in case the russian investigation goes before the supreme court...more of trump's obstruction of justice....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2018 - 10:11pm PT
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The U.S. embassy in London is warning Americans to "lay low" during Trump's upcoming trip to England. The embassy warns that anti-Trump protesters will be out, looking for trouble.
This is the first time, ever, that such a warning has been given to Americans when their president made a trip to England.
https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/low-profile-travel-warning-us-embassy-london-trump-13063626.php
Trump's idea of preparing for this week's NATO summit is to falsely accuse the other NATO members of being "delinquent in their payments".
There are no countries that owe the United States money because of NATO. There are no countries that are "delinquent in their payments" with respect to NATO. The countries that are not currently spending at least 2% of their GDP on defense, as agreed in 2014, have until 2024 to do so.
Trump talks to his supporters in simplistic terms about economics, because all they understand is that if they don't make their car payment, the car gets repossessed. Trump talks about NATO the same way, as if the U.S. will foreclose on Germany because it is "delinquent in its payments".
Trump voters wanted things to be drastically different, and they are. They've got their pet wolverine, and he is wreaking havoc and chaos at every turn.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jul 10, 2018 - 10:30pm PT
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And we hang on to NATO to counter exactly what? The Warsaw Pact--dissolved in, what, 1991? These chain-gang treaties remain a legacy path to global catastrophe. Should have learned this after WWI.
Anyone here want to send their kids/grandchildren to defend Turkey? Poland? Almost exactly one hundred years later, who here wants to defend Europe for a THIRD time with the blood of their children?
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John M
climber
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Jul 10, 2018 - 10:40pm PT
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Defending Europe was a good thing. Because if the Axis had succeeded in taking over Europe, then they would have then been able to concentrate on the US. Isn't that Obvious? So please don't imply that defending them in the past has any bearing on what might happen in the future. Or implying that it was a mistake in the past that we shouldn't make in the future. That is ridiculous. Germany came very close to having nuclear weapons and jets. Hitler would have used them on the US if we hadn't gone over there and helped stop him. We almost left it too late.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jul 10, 2018 - 10:45pm PT
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I'm all for defending the national interests--even in Europe. But not by being treaty-bound to defend every nation therein.
BTW, Germany was never close to nukes. Norwegian deuterium facilities and all that, I know, blah, blah. German scientists deliberately drug their feet--while ours did not.
BTW #2, they did have jets. Not just "close."
BTW #3, Germany declared war on us in Dec. 1941.
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John M
climber
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Jul 10, 2018 - 10:53pm PT
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I understand that they weren't as close as has been historically claimed. But if Japan hadn't attacked us when it did, we would have continued to drag our feat, which would have given Germany more time. It also would have meant that we would have started latter on developing the nuclear bomb. That war hinged on a few key decisions.
Edit: Yes, I know that they had jets. They just hadn't yet ramped them up to full production. That was a close thing.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Jul 10, 2018 - 11:06pm PT
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Yes, I know that they had jets. They just hadn't yet ramped them up to full production. That was a close thing.
The Germans were moving their Me-262 production factories underground, but that was taking place a little too late in the war to make a real difference. Not nice working conditions, however.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:07am PT
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Lituya-And we hang on to NATO to counter exactly what? Well let's see- France and England were left alone to defend Europe against Germany. After the dust had settled over 200,000 American soldiers were dead and more than 10 million total Allied troops had lost their lives uprooting Germany from occupied territory. Civilian and Military casualties could literally be measured by every mile that had to be recaptured.
My Brother was a Cobra pilot stationed in Germany during the cold war. We all went through Checkpoint Charlie and witnessed what Russian occupation looks like. It's a universally accepted strategy to have forward bases with a rapid and comprehensive counter attack strategy against Russia- oh...except Lituya who happens to be very assertive in his foreign policy prowess.
We use bases in Turkey to defend our oil supplies- Nato is really a pitbull for our consumption by defending trade routes and raw materials. I'm amazed by the fools that are willing to buy into Trump's rhetoric when he is clearly owned by Putin.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:43am PT
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I'm all for defending the american corporations fixed it for you
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:49am PT
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The alliance has worked extremely well because everyone understood that attacking an ally was a death wish. The alliance was airtight. Russia is hardly less expansionist than it was during the Cold War days, and many bordering countries are still legitimately scared. (Crimea, anyone?). And btw, we were the first country to call for the aid of our NATO allies a mere 17 years ago when we were attacked by al aqeda. How soon some of us forget. Scratch that: how easily cultist trumpkins are gaslighted.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 11, 2018 - 07:09am PT
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so were attacked by the outgrowth of our own black ops
Oh... it's worse than that....
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 07:28am PT
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Dingus Milktoast
Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jul 11, 2018 - 07:05am PT
The reason for NATO is not to "protect Europe" from Russia or any other so-called threat. You people need to stop thinking of countries as if they are individual people. Russia did this. Germany did that. Simplistic bullsh#t.
The reason for NATO is empire and American hegemony.
Think back in history - were the King's men of England garrisoned in the colonies to protect the colonies from external threats? Of course not. The King's men were in the colonies as enforcers.
With NATO the U.S. gets to install massively powerful military bases on foreign soil, and did and does just that. Once installed except in rare instances they are not removed. Bam.
Why? For the good of the people in Germany, France, UK? A freebie from Murica?
Laughably, no. TANSTAAFL.
DMT
Tell that to our allied Baltic states who desperately want to keep NATO intact.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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Milktoast
Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jul 11, 2018 - 07:31am PT
I would dare say a majority of Americans don't give a f*#king damn for the people in those Baltic states and would not willingly sacrifice a son or daughter in their defense, ever.
The only value those states have to the US empire is as a potential threat to the sovereign interests of Russia. The leadership of Russia does not want a NATO garrison on it's doorstep, any more than American leadership wanted a Russian base in Cuba.
DMT
You keep saying it’s all about american empire. That’s simplistic. It’s not that simple. I brought up the Baltics as an example of European states that want the alliance. Meanwhile, you sure are quick to throw away the check on Russian advances that NATO has provided—and still provides.
70 plus years of Western Europe without warfare? I’d say that’s a damned good bargain.
Yeah, I know, Americans don’t want their kids killed in Poland. Parents said the same thing in 1914 and 1940, but the world had other things in mind. If Russians know we mean business if they f*#k around then an attack is much less likely.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 11, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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Putin's puppet tRump faulting Germany for being owned by Russia.
You can't beat that irony with a schnitzel.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 11, 2018 - 08:07am PT
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Russia has done little but retreat for the past 30 years...
30 years, eh?
All of that retreat ended in 1991.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 08:20am PT
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Which is fine, if that's what a person wants to support. Just understand the incredible drain on resources it represents. Don't come crying to me about how the federal budget gets spent on bullets and don't pretend the historic deficits are unrelated.
You can be both for NATO and critical of excessive military spending.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 09:40am PT
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Yep...enjoy your day.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 10:21am PT
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President Putin's twitter attacks on NATO have been rebuked by the United States Senate. In a rare instance of nearly unanimous bipartisan solidarity, the Senate voted 97-2 to oppose Donald Putin's efforts to weaken and/or dismantle the NATO alliance.
The measure also called for stronger American efforts to counter Russian interference in elections.
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nato-priorities/2018/07/10/us-senate-votes-to-defend-nato-as-trump-attacks/
“In the absence of U.S. presidential leadership, I want to make clear to our allies abroad, as well as our adversaries in the Kremlin, as to where members in the United States Senate stand,” said Menendez, adding that the chamber stands for the rule of law, an international order based on democratic values and with its allies.
“President Trump’s slap-dash approach to foreign policy, borne out of heated campaign rallies, instead of thoughtful Cabinet meetings, has real implications for our national security,” Menendez said. “Such reckless behavior by President Trump has weakened the United States on the global stage and created a more dangerous world for our citizens and our troops serving abroad.”
Mr. and Mrs. Putin are scheduled to meet alone in Helsinki, with only Mr. Putin's translator in the room to compensate for Mrs. Putin's poor command of the Russian language.
There will be no reporters, aides, recording devices or other documentation of the tryst. The rest of the world will have no way of knowing which positions the couple favors.
Twitter is concerned that the public is losing faith in it as a valid, reliable source of accurate information.
Specifically, company executives say that Twitter is being perverted by fake accounts that artificially boost the number of "followers" of certain Tweeters, and thereby distort the perceived integrity of those Tweeters.
The company has been culling millions of accounts in an all-out offensive against the fraud, thereby assuring the public that Twitter will not tolerate misinformation on its platform.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/technology/twitter-fake-followers.html
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 11:28am PT
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In order to invoke the 25th Amendment, the Cabinet and Vice-President must concur that the president is incapacitated.
Mike Pence can't even decide if he wants his bottle of water on the table. Trump has to decide for him.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Mike Pence is not going to vote that Trump is incapacitated, because he's even more incapacitated. He's totally reliant on Trump for his behavioral cues. Pence is star-struck and entranced by Trump, like a movie extra on the same sound stage as Robert De Niro.
Trump is expecting his supporters to stand firm, and not flinch, in the face of his Quixotic trade wars. When Harley-Davidson decided to save itself, and move manufacturing overseas, Trump said the company "double-crossed" him, and he called the employees 'traitors'.
Trump's plan is for Americans, especially his supporters in the Midwest, to hunker down, endure the pain of battle, and remain confident that General Trump will eventually win the war. Trump's promise is that a little pain, now, will result in a lot of prosperity later.
Trust me. I'm the best at what I do. I make deals.
Donald Trump
Trump is preparing to increase his offensive on the Eastern Front, and put another $200 billion worth of Chinese goods on his hit list. The Chinese, for their part, are already prepared with an equivalent countermove.
Trump is preparing to increase his offensive on the Western Front, and put tariffs on automobiles imported from Europe. This will disrupt car makers here, too, because parts are sourced internationally. The EU is ready to match Trump's escalating tariffs, move for move.
Trump's tariffs are allegedly justified in the name of national security, which is the only way Trump can autonomously enact them. Trump has, in effect, claimed that the entire American economy is a national security disaster that he, alone, can fix. He says he will put tariffs on all Chinese imports, if necessary, to get his point across that The Art Of The Deal overrules everything else in the universe.
Trump is an inexperienced, uneducated, incompetent and undisciplined moron who is experimenting with drastic changes to the economy, just to see what will happen. Trump is gambling recklessly, with other people's money, and doesn't really care what the outcome is.
Congress will, eventually, act to stop the madman. Trump's WWE-type tough-guy bluster and deranged policies are costing the GOP its voters. Even complete idiots will not tolerate an infinite amount of senseless abuse.
UPDATE EDIT:
The Senate voted 88-11 today to stop the madman from destroying the world economy. Good for them. Well done. Keep up the good work. It's about time. What took them so long?
The Senate GOP is now an honorable, responsible and patriotic group that will no longer bow down, and suckle the feces-slathered phallus of Mrs. Putin.
Praise the Lord!
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/politics/senate-trump-tariff-vote/index.html
Senators voted overwhelmingly Wednesday calling on Trump to get congressional approval before using national security as a reason for imposing tariffs on other nations.
The House GOP may still be in its infantile, suckling stage, and not yet ready to join the Senate GOP at the grown-ups' table.
Which is OK. The House GOP will likely be voted out of power in November, and the losers can go do their growing up somewhere else.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What do you mean "real" things that Trump could be criticized for?
When ICE kidnaps immigrant children from their parents at the border, and puts them up for adoption in Michigan, is that a "fake" thing?
Is Trump's disastrous tariff war a "fake" thing?
Is it "fake" that Trump is actively attempting to dissolve NATO and the EU?
I think your statement would have been more correct like this:
"There are many other, additional, things that Trump should be criticized for."
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 11, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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I'm all for America standing down from it's militaristic adventures
better tell that to trump. what's he gonna do with that yuge military budget he wants?
Dingus, I actually agree, to some extent, with what you are saying.
However, if we pulled all the troops from foreign soils, that would close the door on any future alliances, imo.
I think these former allies would then form economic alliances with Russia, or China, and say f*#k you 'murika.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 11, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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No. It's real U.S. policy for years now.
Nope. Damn you are gullible. Did you read that in Drudge?
Seperation was done only in extreme circumstances(such as parental abuse, drugs, uncertainty if true parent, etc) under Obama.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 11, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
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No. It's real U.S. policy for years now
it that so? do tell us more....
name it, show the US government program not only separating children from parents for extended periods, for years now. and in addition as you say, sending the children to Michigan
be careful, concealing your powerful "conservative" intellect could be telling...
try to make your point without deflecting to call Hillary Clinton a "bitch"
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 11, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
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Despite your obvious Fox News like information,there has never been a law or policy to break up immigrant families until may of 2018.
You need more than a dictionary.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
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And, there has never been a policy of intentionally failing to secure records linking separated children to their parents, so that the children become classified as "unaccompanied minors".
The Separation of Families scandal has only been scratched at the surface.
The reason about half of all kidnapped children under the age of 5 can't be reunited with their parents is because the original intent was to permanently separate them. The original intent was to provide a supply of "orphaned" adoptees in remote areas of the country.
Stolen children is big business in Third World countries. Trump believed the U.S. was missing out, so he enacted his monstrous policy.
Michael Avenatti is on haitus from the Stormy Daniels scandal, because New York prosecutors have called dibs on Michael Cohen.
Avenatti has been staying busy with the stolen-children-for-sale scandal.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 11, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
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So, you fight to rip a 8 month old fetus out of the womb, I say a state should be able to issue what laws they like and the feds should have little say.
Yes, conservative states should be allowed to make abortion illegal, or at the very least, be allowed to regulate abortion providers out of existence.
That way, middle income woman can fly to states where it is legal to have abortions, but many poor women will not be able to.
How very Republican.
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clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
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Jul 11, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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ExCon - thanks for the link on Ed Schultz. Here's more:
America is Morally Bankrupt | Ed Schultz
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 03:28pm PT
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Think of the problems that would be solved if we simply annexed Mexico
You need to change the battery in your calendar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Fremont
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 11, 2018 - 04:22pm PT
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ATG, tell us about your climbing.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
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With respect to annexing Mexico:
NAFTA was intended to make Mexico more America-like, with a more favorable environment for corporate investment, which would raise the living standard there, and reduce the incentive for people to cross the border illegally.
A related program established by Mexico and the United States involved companies known as Maquiladora Factories. They had duty-free access to U.S. materials, and the manufactured goods had lower, preferential tariffs when exported to the United States.
These two programs resulted in a net migration from the United States back across the border to Mexico, for undocumented workers. NAFTA and the Maquiladora programs made Mexico more like America. It wasn't necessary to annex Mexico in order to make it a better place to live. All we had to do was extend some of our economic principles across the border to them.
Trump is now attacking NAFTA as being a bad deal for America.
NAFTA was intended to be a form of assistance, somewhat like charity, to our neighbor to the south. It was never about the United States winning all the chips. Mexico was intentionally given favorable treatment, because the U.S. wanted to help them out.
It is no coincidence that The Trump Foundation, which was supposed be be a non-profit organization, was actually a fraudulent charity that was established as a source of illicit income for the Trump family.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
The primary reason the elite, conservative class wants to outlaw abortion is that more poor people would mean more workers in competition for lower wages.
It has always been understood that the GOP's Holy Grail, criminalizing abortion, would only apply to poor people. Elliot Brody, the RNC's financial chairman, didn't hesitate for a moment to pay for his Playboy Bunny's abortion.
Those so-called "Pro-Life" people are sick and disgusting. Occupying their self-conferred exalted status in society, they treat "lesser" people the way ranchers treat livestock. They want to breed them as fast as possible, to maximize the rate of exploitation and maximize their personal profits.
Ironically, these are the same people who are anxious for Jesus to come back to life, swinging his big ol' cross like a super-scythe, cutting down the evil ones, and plowing them deep, down into the soil.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
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There are a few big difference between now and before Roe v Wade was decided, with regards to paternal responsibility, or at least liability.
Back in '73, a man could simply move away, and there'd be little help in the way of getting that deadbeat to financially support his offspring. He could deny being the father, could even have friends slutshame the pregnant woman or new mother, and avoid responsibility.
Nowadays, any man who impregnates a woman pretty much has to go completely off the radar, if they don't want up to half their paycheck "taken" to pay for their bastards.
It's not only poor women who are brought back to something of a slave state when abortion becomes an impossible obstacle to overcome, but poor and even not at all poor men, and the other women and children in their lives.
One other difference is that pregnancy and unmarried female parenthood carries next to no stigma anymore, whereas back before RvW it was enough to have people sending their daughters off "to help poor Aunt Emma" recovering from some made up illness, and whisk the newborn off for adoption. Girls and young women can't be so easily forced to give away children whether they want to or not, anymore.
So long as the laws/regulations for child support don't also get overturned, a good number of "good, Christian boys" are going to be sold into indentured service as well.
Think about it guys.... surely there are at least a few of you who know of men who skipped out on the financial support of children they made. Where would they be now, if they'd been unable to avoid paying their due?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
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Russia has done little but retreat for the past 30 years...
anyone who feels threatened by their support of the people of crimea and that little bit of the Donbass region
is threaten by a minor constraint of American ambition to take as much away from the people there as possible
the exercise of policys that are diametrically opposite of what we told those people for decades we would do IF ONLY they gave up their empire...
It pains me to say this, but I mostly agree with xCon. We (the US and western Europe) had a real opportunity, starting in the early 1990s, to play nice with the new Russian Federation. But instead we encouraged former Soviet satellites to station our missiles, join NATO, and member up with the EU. Clinton, GWB, and Obama all had a hand in making Russia feel marginalized and threatened. Hell, Obama sent an entire armored brigade to Poland during his last week in office! And now we wonder why the Russian people support a f@#$%! up goon like Putin?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
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Clinton, GWB, and Obama all had a hand in making Russia feel marginalized
Oh, poor Charlie. Everyone here is so full of hate.
Manson Family member, outside a Los Angeles courthouse, c. 1969
Oh, poor Vladimir. Everyone is so full of hate.
Russia is marginalized because its dictator, Vladimir Putin, has a long and broad history of human rights abuses, including assassinating journalists and political opponents. He remains in power with fraudulent elections and by terrorizing his people. He runs the country with the assistance of a handful of oligarchs that control the economy, and who must show absolute loyalty to Putin, or else they are imprisoned or killed.
Putin's criminal activity is not restricted to his own country. He interfered, considerably, in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election. He has interfered in other elections, including England's disastrous Brexit decision.
Putin's latest outrage was murdering a British citizen, on British soil, with an internationally-banned nerve gas agent. At this time, there is no known motive, other than to send a message to the West that Vladimir Putin is a dangerous and wild animal who must not be underestimated.
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+++
Yes. Most undocumented workers came here legally, and then simply over-stayed their visas.
A border wall, at this point, would only serve to keep undocumented immigrants in. There is a net emigration in the other direction for Mexicans.
Trump's medieval fortification border wall is only intended to be an abstract symbol that the braying masses focus on as Trump shouts absurd lies at them.
The reality of any such wall is irrelevant. Trump fraudulently tells people at his rallies that the construction of the border wall is underway, and they cheer and wave their MAGA pennants. Trump puffs up, swivels his head, raises his shoulders and arms, and smirks victoriously.
Trump doesn't need to begin building the wall, let alone complete it. The reality that his supporters recognize is anything that Trump says. They are incapable of perceiving and assimilating sensory input that conflicts with Trump's lies.
Pretty soon, Trump might put photoshopped border scenes up on a JumboTron screen, and tell his audience that the wall has been completed, and that Mexican rapists are slaughtering themselves by throwing their bodies against wall as hard as they can, trying to break it down.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
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ATG
Big Wall climber
Santee, CA
Jul 11, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
^^^^^ YUP. COMMON GROUND ABOVE ^^^^^^^^
I live 28 miles from the Mexico border in cal and I know people who have been involved in trafficking. Otherwise, affectionately known in these parts as Santucky.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
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I built 70+ houses in Mission Viejo ,so what.
This is a problem built by her Trump and only him.
You have problems with people you scapegoat in SC,we have some over here as well,people that help feed us.
And,our economy.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
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Wilbeer- economic forcast calls for another recession within the next two years. The severity and length will probably be exasperated by these crazy trade wars.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 11, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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The last one hurt,let’s have some hope that everything will be fine.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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Trump says that Germany is "captive to Russia" because of a natural gas pipeline from Russia to Germany. Trump is using the pipeline as the basis for his attacks on German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the NATO summit.
What a prick.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/world/europe/germany-merkel-russia-trump-nato.html
Trump calling Germany captive to Russia is like the pot calling the surgical tray black.
Trump's wife Ivana was born and raised in Communist Czechoslovakia.
Trump's wife Melania was born and raised in Communist Yugoslavia.
Trump became Mrs. Vladimir Putin in 2013 after a urolagnic ceremony at a Moscow hotel.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 11, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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let us review
*ATG foolishly, and wrongfully stated:
No. It's real U.S. policy for years now
Norton nicely asked
Is that so? do tell us more....
name it, show the US government program not only separating children from parents for extended periods, for years now. and in addition as you say, sending the children to Michigan
------
*AGT then, under pressure to deflect after being called out as LIAR then deflects -
And, I'm not going to waste my time providing links to people with TDS
*and another in a long line of poorly educated, alternative fact worshippers, bites the dust
Your cover has been exposed, ATV, the road to recovery starts by admitting you are a liar
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
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I live in close proximity to The Toothpicks House, still don't lock the door, but I would never talk to a moron.
And if anyone would like to sleep with their doors open for the next year I would consider discussing border security with them.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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I haven't locked a front door in years, unless I am going out of town for more than a few hours. This town is full of spanish-speaking people, many of them undocumented immigrants. I have nothing to fear from them, at all.
They invite me to their quinceanera parties. I fix their cars for free. They give me homemade tamales. I steer them through the DMV process. They ask me about Trump. I tell them he is El Pinchoto Grosero Muy Mas Malo.
The people I am scared of are the all-American, MAGA-hatted, ghost-white tweakers who've been up for a week, sucking acetone-based chemicals out of a broken light bulb. They look just like the people at Trump's pep rallies.
Here is a metaphor for Trump's svengalic power over his supporters:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 11, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
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My blessings on those that never lock their doors.
I lock my car doors when I leave it, & my home doors at night.
And I have my firearms ready, inside my house.
I do share these values with my fellow paranoids on ST.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 11, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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ATG....Don't use Trump's name in vane...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
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Say hey Fritz
We learned quickly in SF that it was bettter to take all your "stuff" out de car and leave it unlocked, saves you a lot of money on broken windows.
That said, depending upon which model you drive, it's now oftentimes the car, not the stuff
I have a "locater" in Mine
Have never had to use it in twenty years
Still, horse theives should be hung
Right
There's one playing out the rope as we read
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 11, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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ATG...My fave , the putinator...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Jul 11, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
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Many of you, and pretty much all in the current USA administration, should read some of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's works, such as "The Influence of Sea Power on History".
He is still considered a leading geo-strategist.
In global terms, Eurasia is the "World Island". Whoever controls the World Island controls the world. Hence (belated) opposition to Nazi Germany, and steadfast opposition to the Soviet Union after 1948, when it rejected participation in the Marshall Plan and took over Czechoslovakia. The USA can't afford to allow any one power - Russia, or now the greater threat of China with its "One Road" imperial initiative - to dominate Eurasia. It's that simple. NATO was originally defensive in origin, for a much weakened Europe, but as Dingus says has morphed into a tool of US imperial ambition, to help prevent anyone else from controlling Eurasia.
The US had about 50% of world GDP in 1945. It's down to about 25%, and steadily declining. A trade war against opponents who clearly have their eye on the main chance ain't going to fix that.
Much the same as the Middle East - the goal of the US there, whatever the fantasies of the religious right, is to ensure that no one power (Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia) dominates that region. Divide and rule.
Meanwhile halfwit Trump and his abettors are attacking the world economy, attacking NATO and his country's most steadfast allies, and sucking up to Putin. Who is no doubt looking forward to playing Trump for the fool that he is, although he's smart enough to throw Trumpie some trinkets.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 11, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
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Weird stuff Brennan
Apparently drugs are legal to some extent in Canada
Watch out for that Jimson Weed
Makes you think things that not even a parakeet can understand
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2018 - 11:15pm PT
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Jim,
I can appreciate that the U.S. companies needed some incentives (low wages, lax oversight) to risk operating in Mexico. The maquiladora program was not a perfect solution, but did provide some benefit to Mexico. It was not only for the benefit of American companies. It could have been structured more in favor of Mexico and the workers.
The White House Press Office is insane.
Trump's behavior at a NATO breakfast meeting caused his staff, such as John Kelly, to wince, grimace, turn away, and appear to be embarrassed by Trump's boorish performance.
In a statement to The Post, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, "[Kelly] was displeased because he was expecting a full breakfast and there were only pastries and cheese."
Sanders is insane. The plates were clean and empty. No food had been served at the time of Kelly's now-famous reaction to Trump's diatribe against Germany. One NATO official had not even taken their folded napkin off their plate.
Trump is a diplomat in the manner that Dr. Evil as a criminal mastermind.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 12, 2018 - 08:02am PT
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 12, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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LOL Wade.
That's hysterical.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 12, 2018 - 09:21am PT
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just the facts ma'am
“That's other people that do that," Trump replied. "I don't. I'm very consistent. I'm a very stable genius.”
and can float in toilet bowl and sting like a b
Meanwhile, in the heartland
I went back to Ohio
But my pretty countryside
Had been paved down the middle
By a government that had no pride
The farms of Ohio
Had been replaced by shopping malls
And Muzak filled the air
From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls
Said, ay, oh, way to go, Ohio
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 12, 2018 - 11:11am PT
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"ask where are the poor and they call you a saint,
ask why they are poor and they call you a communist"
I like this quote a lot.
And that trump toilet scrubber is awesome! I tried to buy one on etsy but I think they sold out (all payment methods are not available right now).
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 12, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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I like that song a lot, Zbrown - thanks for posting some of the lyrics
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 12, 2018 - 11:51am PT
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When Rush Limbaugh started using the famous bass line from her song “My City Was Gone” as his bumper music, her publishing company tried to make him cease and desist, but Hynde demurred, saying her parents liked the show and she didn’t mind despite Limbaugh’s politics. Limbaugh’s simply paid a fee for the song since.
wiki
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2018 - 11:57am PT
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Stormy Daniels was arrested by undercover vice officers at a Columbus, Ohio, strip club. She was charged with inappropriate touching of officers and patrons. Her bail was $6000.
The charges were dismissed by the D.A. the next morning.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/07/12/stormy-daniels-is-arrested-at-an-ohio-strip-club-michael-avenatti-says/
It is possible that the arrest of Daniels was intended as a media diversion by someone with the power to urge Columbus police to harass Daniels. It could have also been retaliatory harassment for her lawsuit against Donald Trump and Michael Cohen.
Jim Jordan is a U.S. Congressman from Ohio.
Jordan is currently under investigation for failing to report, or otherwise properly respond to, sexual abuse of student wrestlers who were under his supervision.
Jordan claims that over eight years as a wrestling coach at Ohio State University, he was unaware of any sexual misconduct by the school's doctor. His students, and many others, say it is impossible that Jordan was unaware of what was going on.
Jordan is a rabid supporter of Trump, and an outspoken critic of the Mueller investigation. Jordan claims that Trump's fictitious "deep state" is behind the Ohio State sex scandal story.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/jim-jordan-says-deep-state-is-engineering-his-sex-abuse-scandal
Ohio State University is located in Columbus, Ohio.
The enemy of my friend is my enemy.
Anonymous
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 12, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
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More wiki
Limbaugh told a pair of reporters in 1997 that "it was icing on the cake that it was [written by] an environmentalist, animal rights wacko and was an anti-conservative song. It is anti-development, anti-capitalist and here I am going to take a liberal song and make fun of [liberals] at the same time."
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 12, 2018 - 12:26pm PT
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yes Edward
most everyone knows that Rush Limbaugh votes Republican, is this news to you?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 12, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
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Just trying to help out xCon.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 12, 2018 - 02:49pm PT
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I haven't watched CSPAN in ages, but pretty ugly power struggles going on right now:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?447953-2/fbi-deputy-assistant-director-peter-strzok-testifies-2016-investigations&vod&start=0
edit: I had it going on in the background while I was working on something else that involved a fair amount of waiting between steps. I turned it off because I realized how dysfunctional the arguing and yelling and talking over the top of each other it was, and my daughter was in hearing range. I didn't want to (1) expose her to that type of unhealthy communication; and (2) didn't want her to get scared about how our country is run. It's like being locked into the back seat of a car and powerless while the adults in the front seat are fighting with each other and not noticing the cliff they are driving off.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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Trump's racism is emboldening people to accost black and hispanic people engaged in everyday activities. Fortunately, many of these white racists have been fired, arrested, or their businesses have been boycotted, for what they have done.
These are examples of Trump's influence coming back to bite his supporters in the ass. They follow Trump's lead, and they suffer for it.
These incidents are further proof that Donald Trump is not some magical, or God-like, entity who can conjure a valid alternative reality simply by making absurd statements. Unfortunately, his supporters are quick to embrace him, but slow to learn the consequences.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Black-Man-Asked-to-Leave-Pool-Area-at-His-13070327.php
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 12, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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I've only seen highlights so far, via CNN International, I'll no doubt hear more later, but I might have a new hero...
Peter Strzok!!
Congressional Republicans: zero credibility. If these were my associates in some capacity, I would be so embarrassed.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 12, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
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I agree ,totally
There will be a video. It needs to be watched.
When a 80 year old accuses you of lies to your wife,there are serious problems.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 12, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
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One item that became clear after watching for just a few minutes- the politicians have mastered the interrogation process of ignoring the responses of the person under question, enabling media outlets and facebook videos to make selective video clips that can completely mis-characterize the situation or make presumptions about what the person being interrogated must have said.
After seeing how the Republican folks were doing this, I am going to be more vigilant when watching for Democrat folks doing it too. Be very wary when watching a highlight reel from any news outlet. It can be easily edited to tell whatever story is desired because there are two disconnected narratives happening in alternation.
For his part, Peter Strzok seemed to be as cooperative as he could be within the constraints of what the FBI is willing to let him share, without compromising active investigation. If these video clips were the only thing I had to judge him and the situation by, I would look favorably on his work motivation and desire to act with integrity.
It was a bit funky for him to assert that he has no bias... it might have been better for him to define what he means by "no bias", which seems to be "not motivated to an opinion by something not factual".
It is an interesting and important question for people in positions that require ethical integrity and trust, how appropriate is it to probe into their personal lives in terms of extramarital affairs? It does say a lot about a person's morality and ethical backbone. But it may not be the only or even the most important indicator... perhaps other emotional issues and beliefs about family and children and the permanence of marriage, perhaps these things could lead a person to an extramarital affair when otherwise they have a strong moral/ethical fiber. That doesn't describe me, but it seems plausible (or at least I am open to further consideration).
Perhaps it would shatter the tatters of our civilization if all work of public servants or military personnel or bankers or others in a position of trust was nullified if people had affairs... it seems they are just too common and it would bring the mechanics of our civilization to a halt.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:16pm PT
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Is it just an affair when you marry the next hooker?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:19pm PT
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Well aware of media misrepresentation,and a 80 year old still accused him of lies to his wife.
Maybe his no bias assertion is similar to Trumps.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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The only thing more partisan than a presidential election is a congressional hearing...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:35pm PT
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For his part, Peter Strzok seemed to be as cooperative as he could be within the constraints of what the FBI is willing to let him share, without compromising active investigation. If these video clips were the only thing I had to judge him and the situation by, I would look favorably on his work motivation and desire to act with integrity.
It was a bit funky for him to assert that he has no bias... it might have been better for him to define what he means by "no bias", which seems to be "not motivated to an opinion by something not factual".
Sorry to say seems like you've been brainwashed if you think Strzok came across well--he seems more like a pathological liar--as one of the questioners more-or-less put it: he knows everyone knows he's lying, but he just can't stop himself.
Putting his adultery affair with co-worker and fellow Trump basher was absolutely appropriate--again as the Congressman put it, Strzok is a man without shame, without a shred of integrity, without anything but his silly little smirk that libtards seem to accept just because he happens not to like Trump (or at least that's what he said to Page, maybe he was just trying to keep is adultery-partner, co-worker, co-conspirator happy . . .
"I can't help but wonder when I see you looking there with a little smirk — how many times did you look so innocently into your wife's eye and lie to her about Ivanka, Putin, Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal? "
Yes and Paula Jones, Moncia L. . . .
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
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Kind of like Trump.
Congrats ,you have found the two FBI agents that did not like Trump.
The FBI should be discredited.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:49pm PT
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blah, any idea who Strozk supported for president - hint: it is not a libtard
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 12, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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blah, any idea who Strozk supported for president - hint: it is not a libtard
No idea, but I'm guessing it's not Trump but when Strzok is involved, I suppose nothing is to bizarre.
But if you do know, that shows the problem: it's fine for everyone to have political beliefs, but it is really appropriate for the senior investigator of both presidential candidates to be supporting anyone for president in that election?
Seems like if you're not willing to be basically apolitical for a while, you should just step aside, but maybe then he wouldn't have been as popular with the "ladies" in the office!
(And I can't spell the guy's name right either without checking each time--it should have been changed to something comprehensible in English,)
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jul 12, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
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I mean, I can't help but wonder...
when I see you there with that little smirk how many times did you look so innocent into your partner's eyes and lie to him about your abilities to climb this mountain?
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jul 12, 2018 - 05:52pm PT
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expel the craven orphanator!
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 12, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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when in fact little to nothing has changed EXCEPT THE COVERAGE
Nope,ATG, Obama never had a zero tolerance family separation policy.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 12, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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Maq Housing? Not McDonalds
The most trafficked border in the world is mainly characterized by a series of illegal 'off the radar' two-way border crossings. While 'human-flow' mobilizes Northbound in search of dollars, 'infrastructural waste' moves in the opposite direction to construct an insurgent, cross-border urbanism of emergency.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 12, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
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Huh?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 12, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
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roflma
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 12, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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The question is, are we a nation of laws, or the laws only for the fools who follow them?
The laws are only for the little guys.
Sure as hell ain't for the Trump's of the world.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 12, 2018 - 10:09pm PT
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I’ve heard of nothing that Strozk actually did that impacted trump’s election.
(Compare with Comey, who very likely threw the election to trump.)
Yes, he sent some very suspicious and inappropriate texts, and likely hates trump.
So what? What did he actually do? Trump still won, against all odds.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 12, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
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I've only seen highlights so far, via CNN International, I'll no doubt hear more later, but I might have a new hero...
Peter Strzok!!
Congressional Republicans: zero credibility. If these were my associates in some capacity, I would be so embarrassed. I agree,it was nice to see someone with some balls stand up to those as#@&%e republicans.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 13, 2018 - 08:11am PT
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All the adults in the room just pat little Donnie on the head and hope that his mommy takes him home sooner rather than later.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 09:16am PT
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Kinky Friedman weighs in. Shockingly so.
Friedman quote:"Looking back through history, I can only think of two figures that have been mocked more than Trump, and they are Abraham Lincoln and Jesus Christ. So I say, give him a chance. How about a reality president for a reality world? Of course, this doesn’t sit well with people in New York I’m working with on projects, but, y’know, I would just withhold judgment on Trump. And it looks to me like he’s getting things done, and some of ‘em are pretty good things. And the last guy was a f*ckin’ Forrest Gump."
http://www.realclearlife.com/music/kinky-friedman-new-album-full-surprises/#1
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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How about this Rosenstein press conference a couple hours ago. He gets up and announces freebie indictments of twelve Russians, indictments he'll never prosecute or have to defend. This at the exact moment when Trump is meeting the Queen of England and three days before his meeting with Putin.
I don't care where you stand on Trump, that's a dick move.
Of course there has to be a strategy behind it. Perhaps he's trying to put Trump in a position where if he doesn't fire him he's weak, and if he does he's screwed.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:14am PT
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Sorta like announcing reopening of e-mail investigation days before election.
I don't care where you stand on Clinton, that's a dick move.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:18am PT
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There are some parents whose kids should be removed from their custody.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:35am PT
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So for the benefit of those who continue to claim that the Russia investigation is a great big witch hunt with nothing to show for its efforts, let’s remind ourselves of what it has produced to date:
Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is currently in jail awaiting trial on multiple charges relating to his relationships with a Russian oligarch close to Putin and the former leader of Ukraine, widely considered a Putin puppet.
Trump’s deputy campaign chairman, Rick Gates, pled guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the United States, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Trump’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
A Trump foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with various Kremlin-connected figures and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian associate of Manafort, was indicted on obstruction of justice charges.
Richard Pinedo pled guilty to identity fraud for selling stolen identities to Russians connected to the Mueller probe.
Alex Van Der Zwaan, a Dutch banker and son-in-law of a Russian oligarch, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his work with Manafort and Gates, and was jailed briefly and then deported.
Thirteen individuals and three companies were indicted for their participation in a Russian scheme to conduct “information warfare” during the 2016 election in order to push voters away from Clinton and toward Trump, as well as undermining trust in the electoral system more generally.
And now, eleven Russian military officials have been indicted for hacking into the email systems of the Democratic National Committee and various people connected to Hillary Clinton, including her campaign chairman, then disseminating the materials in carefully timed releases meant to maximize the political damage to Clinton. One of those 11, plus another Russian official, have also been indicted for hacking into the systems of state election agencies
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:49am PT
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Sorta like announcing reopening of e-mail investigation days before election.
I don't care where you stand on Clinton, that's a dick move.
Only in retrospect was it a "dick move." Remember Shady Jim said the reason why he did it was because he though Hillary would in, and he thought this would bolster her presidency (and of course bolster his own performance, as it would like he was doing a thorough job).
It backfired of course, and so both Shady and Hillary are out of a job, but that doesn't change the fact that his intent was to help Hillary (and himself).
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:50am PT
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So for the benefit of those who continue to claim that the Russia investigation is a great big witch hunt with nothing to show for its efforts, let’s remind ourselves of what it has produced to date:
Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is currently in jail awaiting trial on multiple charges relating to his relationships with a Russian oligarch close to Putin and the former leader of Ukraine, widely considered a Putin puppet.
Trump’s deputy campaign chairman, Rick Gates, pled guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the United States, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Trump’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
A Trump foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with various Kremlin-connected figures and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian associate of Manafort, was indicted on obstruction of justice charges.
Richard Pinedo pled guilty to identity fraud for selling stolen identities to Russians connected to the Mueller probe.
Alex Van Der Zwaan, a Dutch banker and son-in-law of a Russian oligarch, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his work with Manafort and Gates, and was jailed briefly and then deported.
Thirteen individuals and three companies were indicted for their participation in a Russian scheme to conduct “information warfare” during the 2016 election in order to push voters away from Clinton and toward Trump, as well as undermining trust in the electoral system more generally.
And now, eleven Russian military officials have been indicted for hacking into the email systems of the Democratic National Committee and various people connected to Hillary Clinton, including her campaign chairman, then disseminating the materials in carefully timed releases meant to maximize the political damage to Clinton. One of those 11, plus another Russian official, have also been indicted for hacking into the systems of state election agencies
Which charges prove (or even imply) the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 11:54am PT
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How about this Rosenstein press conference a couple hours ago. He gets up and announces freebie indictments of twelve Russians, indictments he'll never prosecute or have to defend. This at the exact moment when Trump is meeting the Queen of England and three days before his meeting with Putin.
Would there ever be a good time to make such an announcement?
You can almost always find such and such event, or meeting with so and so on his calendar, as a reason not to make such an announcement.
And no it does not compare with the announcement by Comey about hillary days before the election, and against bureau policy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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Yep^^^
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 13, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
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Lock her up!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
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Which charges prove (or even imply) the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
Again, (YAWN) the investigation is still in progress. Further indictments and charges will be forthcoming in the future, at an appropriate time. The argument that "it has not happened yet, so it will never happen" is absurd, ludicrous, childish, and exactly what Trump wants his supporters to believe.
The only charges so far are for people who have pled guilty to lesser crimes, such as lying to investigators. Michael Flynn, for example, pled guilty to lying, because he (and his son, apparently) were facing much more serious charges. A plea bargain, by definition, allows someone to plead guilty to a lesser crime, and avoid more severe prosecution before a jury. Those guilty pleas have been announced publicly, but not what the guilty are prepared to testify in a court of law against co-conspirators.
Indictments against Russians, which are unlikely to result in any prosecution, will result in their never being able to enter the United States without risking arrest. The same situation exists for the movie director Roman Polanski, who had to stay at home when his film The Pianist won the Academy Award for Best Picture.
Trump said, "I think they like me a lot in the U.K."
Think again, Baby Man. That delusional statement is immediately refuted, and proven to be false, by extensive photographic evidence to the contrary.
Reality - 1
Trump - 0
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 13, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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Freedom of the Press, 2018..
trump refuses a question from CNN, calling it fake news, then takes one from Fox News.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 13, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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I'd like to know why the gov is wasting time with phony "indictments" against Russians when there are real criminals like Stormy Daniels out there on the loose in flagrant violation of all sorts of laws.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 13, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
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Yes, Stormy is such a threat to our national security.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Jul 13, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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blahblah,
"I'd like to know why the gov is wasting time with phony "indictments" against Russians when there are real criminals like Stormy Daniels out there on the loose in flagrant violation of all sorts of laws. "
You aren't one of those folks whom want to make it illegal for me to bust a nut outside of wedlock are you ?
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 13, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
Which charges prove (or even imply) the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
Again, (YAWN) the investigation is still in progress. Further indictments and charges will be forthcoming in the future, at an appropriate time. The argument that "it has not happened yet, so it will never happen" is absurd, ludicrous, childish, and exactly what Trump wants his supporters to believe.
The only charges so far are for people who have pled guilty to lesser crimes, such as lying to investigators. Michael Flynn, for example, pled guilty to lying, because he (and his son, apparently) were facing much more serious charges. A plea bargain, by definition, allows someone to plead guilty to a lesser crime, and avoid more severe prosecution before a jury. Those guilty pleas have been announced publicly, but not what the guilty are prepared to testify in a court of law against co-conspirators.
Indictments against Russians, which are unlikely to result in any prosecution, will result in their never being able to enter the United States without risking arrest. The same situation exists for the movie director Roman Polanski, who had to stay at home when his film The Pianist won the Academy Award for Best Picture.
Translation - NONE
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 13, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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Which charges prove (or even imply) the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
sigh, we have been over this so many times already.....do you not read anything?
*Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is currently in jail awaiting trial on multiple charges relating to his relationships with a Russian oligarch close to Putin and the former leader of Ukraine, widely considered a Putin puppet.
Trump’s deputy campaign chairman, Rick Gates, pled guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the United States, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Trump’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
A Trump foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with various Kremlin-connected figures and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian associate of Manafort, was indicted on obstruction of justice charges.
**Richard Pinedo pled guilty to identity fraud for selling stolen identities to Russians connected to the Mueller probe.((
Alex Van Der Zwaan, a Dutch banker and son-in-law of a Russian oligarch, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his work with Manafort and Gates, and was jailed briefly and then deported.
Thirteen individuals and three companies were indicted for their participation in a Russian scheme to conduct “information warfare” during the 2016 election in order to push voters away from Clinton and toward Trump, as well as undermining trust in the electoral system more generally.**
And now, eleven Russian military officials have been indicted for hacking into the email systems of the Democratic National Committee and various people connected to Hillary Clinton, including her campaign chairman, then disseminating the materials in carefully timed releases meant to maximize the political damage to Clinton. One of those 11, plus another Russian official, have also been indicted for hacking into the systems of state election agencies
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jul 13, 2018 - 03:22pm PT
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Nice synopsis, Norton! I'd been behind. I'll be dag-nabbed why an American would support Trump. I'm not so much outraged as flummoxed.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
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TEdward is correct.
The total number of indictments and charges alleging that Trump or his staff conspired with Russians to defraud the United States in the 2016 election is NONE.
The total number of manned rocket flights by SpaceX is NONE.
The total number of calendars printed for 2025 is NONE.
The total number of hours that have passed since sunrise on July 15, 2018 is NONE.
The number of posts, in this topic, that are numbered higher than 4250 is NONE.
NONE.
But, not done.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 13, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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Trump with Russian bear fuking him, at a recent parade in Dusseldorf.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 13, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
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[supposed Comey quote above]
Nope, Comey had it in for Clinton ever since Comey failed to sink her when he was part of the whitewater investigation. He did say his reason for the fake leak was that he did not want to be seen as not being as aggressive against her as possible. Try to find a source other than fartspews.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 13, 2018 - 04:15pm PT
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Indictment says Russians start spearfishing the dnc on or about July 27. Trumps request of the Russians to find Clinton's emails was on July 27.
Coincidence?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 13, 2018 - 04:27pm PT
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What if it is all true.
Right down to Russia actually funding Trumps campaign.
IMO ,It won’t matter squat.
His supporters like Russians compared to Liberals.
Nothing is going to stop Trump,unless he is voted out.
The money is way too big.
Let’s just hope we have elections by the end of his term.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
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^^^me too. Trump seems to be increasingly unnerved these days by the investigation.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
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And btw, trump’s disregard of actions by Russia to sabotage our elections is borderline treasonous.
Why is that racist crook so passive?
What is he hiding?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 13, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
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His taxes and very well at this point.
Not one elected Democrat questioning it either.
Follow the money,but ,we are not allowed.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 13, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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I'd like to know why the gov is wasting time with phony "indictments" against Russians when there are real criminals like Stormy Daniels out there on the loose in flagrant violation of all sorts of laws.
Laugh out Loud !
this has to be a troll ! Nobody's brain processes like that.
What a pathetic attempt to deflect away from your boy Donald, Stormy !!!
ok, here we go again, another "conservatard" being called out
prove it, name the "crimes", all sorts of "laws" that Ms Daniels has been charged with
then say hello to another recently exposed "liar", AGV, who could not prove his lie that the Obama Administration was separating families and sending the children to "Michigan", exactly as Trump is doing now
really, you guys just can't stop lying, try the truth, remembering it is so much easier than trying to keep track of lies.....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 13, 2018 - 06:46pm PT
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Manafort is in prison...? WTF..? This is impossible...I'll google Fox news to find out what's really happening...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jul 13, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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Which charges prove (or even imply) the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
sigh, we have been over this so many times already.....do you not read anything?
*Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is currently in jail awaiting trial on multiple charges relating to his relationships with a Russian oligarch close to Putin and the former leader of Ukraine, widely considered a Putin puppet.
Trump’s deputy campaign chairman, Rick Gates, pled guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the United States, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Trump’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials, and is now cooperating with Mueller.
Norton - Let's start with these first three.
How do any of the charges prove (or even imply) the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
Manafort is charged for activities from 2014 and earlier, which had nothing to do with Trump's campaign.
Gates is an accomplish for the same activities.
Flynn - What's the collusion link?
This all reminds of
*edit - Rotten johnny - Manafort is in jail for witness tampered.
OIW for being a moron.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
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A staphylococcus aureus skin infection takes time for the immunity response to surround and incapacitate the dangerous organisms, and bring them to the surface as a prominent pimple that indicates the infection has run its course. It is not a good idea to rush the process, as by squeezing, which is counterproductive. These things take time.
Mueller's current strategy, with his action today, might go about like this:
Indicting the Russians will allow the release of information that appeases the GOP phallus suckers, without endangering the the rest of the investigation.
Nobody expects those Russians to flip, and cooperate with Mueller. So, their role can be revealed to the public, to counter the absurd claims of "Witch Hunt". A selective release of chaff information from the prosecutor's docket can be done, without imperiling the main focus of the investigation.
Michael Avenatti might applaud it, on CNN, as a great move in the current game of Three Dimensional Chess.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
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Mueller's new indictments indicate, to the naysayers, that he is sitting on a Fort Knox's worth of incriminating evidence.
Mueller, Rosenstein and Strzok have been verbally abused to the point that they are ready to take the safety off, and start firing.
This THING is unprecedented in our nation's history. And, it is not surprising that it is taking unprecedented turns as it plays out.
It is ironic that MAGA will be seen as an unsuspected way that America Will Be Made Great Again.
Trump supporters are like people in a theater watching a Rom-Com movie, and yelling halfway through that "she should just go for him".
They have no patience to allow the drama to play out the way it will.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Whatever doesn't kill our democracy will only make it stronger.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Social policy is a pendulum.
The ideal position, but never realized, is in the middle.
In reality, the pendulum swings far to the right, far to the left, and never quite settles in the middle.
As an engineer, I know how to understand a pendulum using the square-root of negative one.
But, the last two American presidents who were engineers were Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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(CNN) The US Food and Drug Administration is advising people to avoid eating fresh crab meat from Venezuela because of potential contamination by bacteria.
As of Thursday, 12 cases have been reported of people sickened by the bacteria, Vibrio parahaemolyticus, the FDA said in a news release.
Can't we [the US] just invade them
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 13, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
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Trump is going to meet with Putin , boss of the russian military guys that hacked into the Democratic party's email accounts...? Trump has your back...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
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Trump has your back...
More at:
Trump has your back to look at, as he slams his tiny accomplice into you.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 13, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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Hey Norton, re your post about Stormy, I suspect sarcasm.
Tom
As an engineer, I know how to understand a pendulum using the square-root of negative one. Imaginary numbers? Join the crowd.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 13, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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I liked dancing the charleston never mind the coon grabbing pussy...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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I have nothing at all against raccoons or crabs
i am against trump
I think he and Romney should reveal their tax returns
Unfortunately posting schitt on the ST will have minimal impact on coons, crabs, Trump, Romney or most anything
(As the great locker once said,) unless you and your affectations are easily influenced by cheap entertainment
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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After the murder of Pertinax (28 March 193), the Praetorian assassins announced that the throne was to be sold to the man who would pay the highest price.
Julianus, having been roused from a banquet by his wife and daughter, arrived in all haste, and being unable to gain admission, stood before the gate, and with a loud voice competed for the prize. .
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 13, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
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Well except for the 200 million in the hole on Scotland golf courses
Who fronted the cash to get into this sink hole
Turnberry is a venerable British Open course that Trump purchased in 2014 for what was reportedly about 36 million pounds (or $63 million at the time) in cash. He then renovated and relaunched it over the following two years. It’s a breathtaking property that borders choppy, gray seas, and features fairways
swollen with undulating turf, knotty roughs and sprawling greens.
Despite its virtues — and despite financial disclosure forms the president has filed in the U.S. suggesting otherwise — Turnberry appears to have largely lost piles of money. That makes it a lesson in the strengths and weaknesses of the president’s instinctive and haphazard approach to business and politics, reminders of longstanding problems that have dogged him throughout his career, including financial conflicts of interest that have taken on new traction with his ascent to the White House.
Even an expensive car burns
http://www.goodiegoodiegoodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Lambo-Crash.jpg
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2018 - 10:35pm PT
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Our Mueller, who art investigating, hallowed be thy name. Thy indictments come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us, this day, our national justice. And, deliver them not indemnity, but deliver them unto prison.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2018 - 12:36am PT
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Trump is so self-absorbed, he doesn't acknowledge the protocol in England of allowing the Queen to be first, when walking.
A buffoon by any other name is TRUMP.
Trump is rude and indifferent to the world around himself.
A gentleman would escort a woman, especially the Queen, and not leave her behind.
Misogyny = dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
A boor should be now be called a TRUMP.
As a guess, Donald Trump has never changed the spark plugs in an engine.
Queen Elizabeth II has changed the spark plugs in an engine.
Just saying . . . . . . . . . .
The worst thing about Donald Trump is that he doesn't have to behave the way he does.
He intentionally behaves the way he does.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2018 - 01:44am PT
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How, in the name of logic and diplomacy, does it make sense that Trump disrespected the Queen of England?
Trump is INSANE.
A petulant man-child, unleashed, and empowered by Aleister Crowley's maxim, "Do What Thou Wilt", is now the president?
The United States Congress must invoke the power vested in them, and stop this madman.
DONALD JOHN TRUMP IS INSANE.
An idiot president, experimenting and gambling with other people's lives and money, was not in the original concept of America.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 14, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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Of course if crimes were committed there should be consequences.
But seriously, does anybody think any of this stuff, be it Comey's last minute statements or Trump's "Grab her by the pussy," or Russian hacking or social media activities made any difference?
This election was defined by two groups: anyone but Hillary, and anyone but Trump. I doubt Clinton voters ran over to Trump because of Comey, or Trump voters abandoned their candidate for any reason whatsoever. We should call this the coolaid election. Sad state of affairs.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 14, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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You're a Russian bot. All of you are. They're everywhere!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 14, 2018 - 08:51am PT
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 09:17am PT
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KSolem, Yes, it DID make a difference. Two of my siblings went Bernie instead of Clinton, based on the Hillary Hate disinformation campaign. While they both did end up voting Clinton, there were a LOT of people who just refused. The Bernie Bomb WAS part of the Russian campaign, and it was effective.
My niece went to vote and found her affiliation had been switched to Republican. WTF was THAT about, and how many others didn't even notice, perhaps because they weren't actively voting in recent elections?
Also, inside scoop does say there was also some amount of actual vote tally hacking; expect to learn about it on MSM in the upcoming months.
The site is hitting the fan, and I don't know, honestly, what it would take for those still thinking this is just Send trying to stall progress for the GOP, to believe it's as bad as we've been saying. But look on the bright side... The guys I've been getting my information from insist that there will be plenty of Democracy pols netted in this catch, too.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 14, 2018 - 09:26am PT
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tRump is a con man and a pathological liar. Uncle Puti saw this and decided to help out, knowing it would help destroy Americas credibility.
It had to be subtle. Anything major and overt would have been too easily detected.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 14, 2018 - 09:53am PT
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Is it a surprise to anyone with a triple digit iq that one nation would want to affect the outcome of another's elections?
We, after all, have a proud history of flat out destroying other nations(by murdering them with bombs and stuff) if we can't control a puppet regime.
To think our elections are somehow sacred to every other nation is a special kind of 'tarded.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 14, 2018 - 09:58am PT
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Therefore we should just let anyone control our elections.
Right.
This is what I mentioned earlier,defense of treason,really.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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But seriously, does anybody think any of this stuff, be it Comey's last minute statements or Trump's "Grab her by the pussy," or Russian hacking or social media activities made any difference?
Trump won by 80,000 votes in a few states
80,000.
1/10 of 1% of the electorate.
It’s ludicrous to think it didn’t make a difference.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 14, 2018 - 10:30am PT
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The Bernie Bomb WAS part of the Russian campaign, and it was effective.
Seriously? Citation?
The Bernie Bomb, as you call it, was engineered inside the Democrat Party. Behind closed doors. Obama left the party $24M in debt. It was broke. To finance her primary campaign Clinton entered into an agreement with the DNC that if she funneled some of her campaign contributions through the committee she would get control of the parties budget. She pulled large amounts of money away from state party coffers to keep her campaign afloat. Money that should have been reserved for the general election, after the primaries. Not illegal, but highly unethical. Having the party by the short hairs, they cleared the deck for her as the presumed nominee, and Bernie was left financing his own campaign. These shenanigans are outlined in a book by interim chair of the Democrat Party at the time, Donna Brazile. It doesn't sound like Russian meddling to me.
My niece went to vote and found her affiliation had been switched to Republican.
In some states this would have restricted her to voting for a Republican candidate in the primary. In the general she can vote for anyone she chooses.
Also, inside scoop does say there was also some amount of actual vote tally hacking; expect to learn about it on MSM in the upcoming months.
That is in the "wait and see" category for me. If it happened at all it's a serious problem, but I'd be surprised if it could have been done on a scale which would have changed Trump's significant Electoral College win.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 14, 2018 - 10:47am PT
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Yes and therefore we need to change the voting system so my side can win every time. Because those other people are evil.
DMT
Well it would be nice if the side that, you know, actually had the most votes, won.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 14, 2018 - 11:10am PT
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What Xcon said...So if i rob a bank , gun in hand , but don't make off with the money , does this mean it wasn't a crime...?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 11:52am PT
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It doesn’t matter if it changed 1 vote or 50,000,000.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
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Seriously? Citation?
With a quick search, here's just one, from Politico, and dated well before it was learned the bots on FB were a LOT more active than FB had originally acknowledge.
It happened, Kris, unfortunately. It was the same with Jill Stein, and is an old standard way from the Checkist playbook. "Managed opposition," an active measure; just one avenue designed to weaken HRC's campaign.
Just like the amplification of "Hillary was a hated candidate." Wile it is TRUE that there were people who "hate" her, that number is actually much smaller than the amplification campaign would have us think. Just as is going on now with the "The DNC has no message" campaign. Say it enough times and it becomes true.....
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 02:36pm PT
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At this point, Trump’s indifference to the Russian threat has lost its capacity to shock. His instinct in the aftermath of the indictment was, as always, to lash out at a perceived threat to his validity rather than to acknowledge the gravity of the situation, looking back at 2016 or ahead to November and beyond.
But we — we in the media, and we as a country — fail in our responsibilities if we simply accept this response with a resigned shrug, Trump being Trump. It is folly to expect that to change. But it is self-defeating weakness, a corroding of baseline expectations of minimal presidential responsibility, not to call it out.
It is even worse, as too many Republicans — nearly all elected Republicans — are doing, to enable it. How sickening to read in Politico that, even as Rosenstein announced the indictment, House conservatives are “putting the finishing touches on an impeachment filing” to oust the meddlesome deputy. How laughable to claim, as did Trump’s private lawyer Rudy Giuliani, that the indictment shows it is “time for [special counsel Robert S. Mueller III] to end this pursuit of the President and say President Trump is completely innocent.”
It is time — past time — to do as Rosenstein suggested: think patriotically as Americans. That this even needed to be said tells you everything about where we are.
I never thought I’d have to question whether our president and members of congress are loyal Americans, but I have strong doubts about Trump and many of the congressional Republicans.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/07/14/rod-rosenstein-for-president/?utm_term=.d0c4e4d67bc8
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 14, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
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You are catching on. Cheers.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 14, 2018 - 03:05pm PT
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tRump = Russian Stooge
tRump is going to "firmly" ask Uncle Puti about the proven election interference that made him president. Right......
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 14, 2018 - 05:10pm PT
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A fun Trump protest sign in London.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 14, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
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god forbid the democrats adopt jill and bernies language and policies and start winning?
bad enough we got to listen to that sh#t from Norton and craig…
oh my !
another powerful intellect raises its head!
ok X con, get specific, show my quotes where I laid out a "winning" strategy for the Dems
you got a typical "conservative" brain - make sh!t up in your head and keep repeating your own lies
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 05:39pm PT
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RICO
read up on it
Building a stupid fing wall has nothing to do with border security
Just ask what's his name
Everything & everybody comes in via tunnel, drone, the sea, Canada, vehicles not searched due to bribery
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 14, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
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So let me get this straight, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Trump is going into a meeting with Putin without his own translator? He's going to rely on the translation of Putin's guy? There are no other Americans in the meeting? Just Putin, Putin's translator, and Trump? WTF? How does Trump even know the translator is giving the sense of what Putin is saying? Putin could be saying nyet and Trump will be hearing da. This is really, really, really stupid and, frankly, scary. Seems like orders will be given.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 14, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
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Winemaker! Per ypur comment:
So let me get this straight, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Trump is going into a meeting with Putin without his own translator? He's going to rely on the translation of Putin's guy? There are no other Americans in the meeting? Just Putin, Putin's translator, and Trump WTF? How does he even know the translator is even giving the sense of what Putin is saying? Putin could be saying nyet and Trump will be hearing yes. This is really, really, really stupid.
I'm impressed that Trump will not take aides into his Putin meeting, which means, he is Putin's lackey.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 14, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
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An acquaintance was involved in the SALT talks...He said the russian generals were using obscene language , in russian , aimed at the American negotiators thinking none of the americans spoke russian... One of the Americans spoke russian and at the first coffee break let the other Americans in on what the generals were saying...Sneaky commies...What is russian for Trump is my bitch...?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 14, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
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козырь - моя сука
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GuapoVino
climber
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Jul 14, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
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To the Trumpies:
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 15, 2018 - 08:06am PT
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I told myself I was not going to read this thread anymore, yet…
Must be cheap thrills.
And Gasp! To make matters worse (especially in the eyes of Trumpites), I have even posted to it.
But then I reassure myself, I am a stable genius.
The stable next to the goats. I'll leave the sheep stable to the Trumpites to mill around in.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 15, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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I think its better of you go with your instincts and dont post.
ATG, for once you have posted something that is perhaps intelligent.
:-)
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 15, 2018 - 09:47am PT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 15, 2018 - 11:13am PT
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apostrophys keep nuclear reactors spinning...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 15, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
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So if i rob a bank , gun in hand , but don't make off with the money , does this mean it wasn't a crime...?
FYP
The fact that I robbed a bank and made off with the money is actually fake news. The deep state is persecuting me. They must stop now.
And why haven't they locked Hillary up, yet.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
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No apostrophes is a mobile thing....
Yes. It is arduous and debilitating to push the SHIFT key to get the symbols keyboard to come up. The worst part is having to push that key, again, just to get back to the original keyboard. It's like being a dog going around in circles, chasing a flea that is biting him on the ass.
Trump's alternative reality act is influencing people in other countries to adopt it as a means of justifying their own crimes.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/12/europe/iceland-blue-whale-intl/index.html
An Icelandic whaling magnate is claiming that a blue whale photographed at his processing factory is not a blue whale. He says he has never hunted any blue whales, which are critically endangered and illegal to hunt. He says the blue whale that is clearly shown at his factory is actually a fin whale that he can legally hunt.
Apparently, Mr. Whalemeat is claiming that the blue whale photographed at his factory is trans-species - it was born a blue whale, but has chosen to identify as a fin whale.
#LBGTQ_Whales
The Icelandic government called BS-13 on Mr. Whalemeat's intentional misidentification of the blue whale, and is performing DNA testing on the blue whale to prove, once and for all, that a blue whale, even one being illegally and lucratively butchered for sale to Asian markets, is a blue whale.
A blue whale is a blue whale is a blue whale.
the ghost of Gertrude Stein, in a recent seance
Reality - 1
Mr. Whalemeat - 0
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
I don't especially like Sacha Cohen's various acts. It just not my thing.
But, I have a lot of respect for his doing what he does. His wife, Isla Fischer, once sneaked his Borat (or whoever) costume into the Academy Awards (or whatever) show, and he did his act in violation of specific orders not to do it.
Good for him.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 15, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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In case you have been living in a cave, modern smartphones pop up options as you type. No extra keystrokes required.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2018 - 02:32pm PT
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Trump called the Mueller investigation a "rigged witch hunt" while in England. This was after the DOJ released the latest indictment against 12 Russian military intelligence officers for interfering in the 2016 election.
The indictment spells out, in fine detail, facts and evidence that demonstrate how, and by whom, the crimes were committed. It is inconceivable that Trump is merely unconvinced by the mountain of evidence. Trump is intentionally pretending to be oblivious to the obvious, to aid and abet Putin and his gang of spies. Trump is a co-conspirator, after the fact.
Trump is a Kremlin asset.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russian-indictments-witch-hunt-putin-1023707
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/trump-rosenstein-russia.html
Trump later said that he was not committed to pursuing the indictments with Putin, because it was President Obamas's fault. The election interference, by definition, occurred before Trump was president. Trump doesn't believe it's his responsibility to prosecute criminal activity that occurred before he was president.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/I-hadn-t-thought-of-asking-Putin-to-extradite-13076567.php
Trump has avoided making any remarks about pressing Putin to stop interfering with U.S. elections, which is still occurring, with Trump as president. Trump enjoys the advantage he personally obtains by allowing Putin to subvert American elections. After all, that is how Trump won the election in 2016.
Trump is Putin's puto, Putin's mistress, and he is actively working to advance Putin's agenda.
Trump is a Kremlin asset.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 15, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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I agree.
The trick is prosecuting him. I am not confident.
The normalization of collusion/interference/treason has begun,with no majority anywhere ,the opposition doesn’t stand a chance.
Mark my words.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 15, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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You are a great example.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 15, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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ATG thinks Drudge Report is unbiased because it has only links.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Jul 15, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
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Explain what Trump could want to talk about with Putin that he wants no other American to hear?
How about something along the lines of "Hey Vlad, how about we sell you 1/4 of our uranium reserves...And, you pay the Clinton Foundation a quarter billion dollars..."
You think that would work?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 15, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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Why not just compare the tax returns of the Clintons and the Trumps?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:23am PT
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jul 16, 2018 - 01:57am PT
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True to form,
death to net neutrality, next the Arctic, Trump would give up Alaska too, if he could.(seems like a plan to re-colonize Puerto Rico?)
soon more valuable places
where is this place The Golan Hieghts?
is there any good climbing there?
'cause I think they are going to be speaking russian ,
or cursing russians ,
or some thing up there
of what was the old, now with an un-obstructed water front,
there is world conflict
or
Capitualation
to
Kleptocracy
arriving as if a seed pod burst
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 16, 2018 - 02:24am PT
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Traitor
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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Like everybody has been saying,
or was it "everybody's talkin' at me"
It's Obama's fault Trump is now president.
But, remember though the next lines were:
I don't hear a word they're saying
Only the echoes of my mind
People stopping, staring
I can't see their faces
Only the shadows of their eyes
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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As the investigation proceeds it becomes increasingly more difficult to believe the weasel- like president isn't over his head in this Russian thing.. Why would Trump be talking about pardoning himself and his growing number of indicted associates...? Why did he have a private dinner with Comey and ask him to help Flynn...? Why won't Trump release his tax returns and why did he agree to be interviewed by Mueller and then back out...? Trump and his discount legal expert giuliani are waging a propaganda war to undermine the FBI , Mueller , Rosenstein , Comey , Obama and anyone else not swimming in Trump's putrid swamp... When the cards are layed on the table it will come down to McConell and his partisan hacks deciding Trump's fate...Will the Republicans do the right thing , follow the constitution and let the system work , or will they take the rest of the Republican party down with the sinking ship and defend Trump to the bitter end... ?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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He sure sounds and acts like a guilty man.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:18am PT
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owned. a confirmed russian asset. not willing, nor able to defend the republic
"who do we see about this?"
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 10:39am PT
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Trump is clearly insane, and he is a Manchurian President who is under the control of Putin.
Trump believes that absurd statements will bend space-time and reality into a worm-hole that leads to The Land of Troy Oz, and he will escape from his pursuers undetected.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:44am PT
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Putin may well have something on Trump. But even putting something like that aside, it is clear that in his heart, Trump really believes in fascism/totalitarianism. Democracy is for the weak.
Everything in life is a zero-sum game.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:48am PT
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Hooblie- well you can watch Russian State TV... uhh humm...I mean Fox News to see that these flimsy Mueller indictments were timed by the FBI and the Deep State to ruin the summit with Putin and that Trump is protecting us with the genocide, I mean generous help of Putin.
I just saw congressman Darryl Isuck give an interview that put things in proper perspective- It's our intelligence services that are the treasonous collaborators.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:00am PT
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I want to publicly apologize right now for buying into this orchestrated diversion by the Deep State- Fox News just reminded me that we must now focus on what was on Hillary Clinton's server and shut down this Witch Hunt!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:03am PT
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I want to also apologize for being in a sh!t mood today- I hiked 30 miles this weekend, got rained off Swiss Arete and came home to my president committing treason on TV.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:08am PT
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I was getting my van tired changed when the press con came up on their tv - Fox News, to boot - so I watched it.
1) Putin came out all smiles; Trump looked fearful and emotionally shut down.
2) Putin said that Trump AGREED TO HAVE PUTIN'S PEOPLE "help" with the Mueller investigation.
3) Putin made a reference to something about not putting weapons in space. Ten to One Trump soon boasts about how well his Space Force is already working, and relates Putin's comment to that.
4) When asked about the Russian Election interferenece, Trump avoids answering the question by babbling about the Hillary Emails and DNC server. At least he also avoided boldfaced lying about it.
Quote on Twitter, from John O. Brennan(@JohnBrennan), who was Director of CIA from 2013-2017 - "Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???"
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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Contractor...Interesting perspective of sill...Is that the start of the route...? got most of the way up it when i was 17 climbing in hiking boots and a few days later , after kicking back in the old plywood hut , summited via the Mountaineers route...Quit picking on Donald...
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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Jody:
You folks are hilarious.
but you make us laugh the loudest..
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:23am PT
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:37am PT
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First I laughed hilariously at the thought of Russia "helping us" with the investigation. Ha ha ha.
My next thought was "aren't we at Treason yet"? And "WTF"? Well, he did exactly as we all expected he would. Just a giant theater of farce.
What's really embarrassing is that so many Americans still believe this sh*t and somehow find a way to justify it. UGH.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:38am PT
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*JODY IS BACK FROM THE RALLY !*
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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That was the single most disgraceful performance I've ever seen out of a US President
Did you listen to the actual interaction or just parrot what the bobbleheads are blathering non-stop? MSM is a mind killer, turn it off. Stream the actual content only.
It didn't seem that bad to me. Bush was a lot more embarrassing when he opened his mouth.
The Orange one isn't bright enough to be some deep-state Russian-mole operative. No way.
And of course other countries and corporations will attempt to influence elections to some extent with marketing campaigns. It's always going to happen no matter what. The difference would be if they actually stuffed ballot boxes with false ID's or subverted the actual counting of votes.
Breath people... the Hysteria is crazy.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 12:16pm PT
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MSM is a mind killer, turn it off. Stream the actual content only.
That is a great idea.
An earlier post showed a media pyramid, with AP and Reuters at the top center, factual and unbiased. At the bottom right was Info Wars, Right-Wing Fabrications and Propagandas.
CNN was halfway down, off to the left a bit. MSNBC was even further down and to the left. Both channels were rated as being highly opinionated and/or explanatory, and not just presenters of facts and information.
Those channels run about 75% commentary and opinion, and only about 25% facts. So, their rating on that graphic somewhat obscures they can be a source of valid factual information.
Here's how:
Watch the CNN/MSNBC news story while the reporter presents the facts, evidence, videotape, etc.
When he introduces a group of analysts to explain it all, shut it off.
Trump, for once, told the truth when he said that the Mueller investigation is a "disaster for the country".
The Bugliosi investigation was a disaster for the people of Los Angeles, because it revealed that a crazy psychopath and his gang of zombies had been living in their midst.
The Mueller investigation will reveal to the public that a crazy psychopath and his gang of zombies has taken over the Federal government.
Many people will be shocked and confused by Mueller's next series of indictments. They will struggle to reconcile their MAGA pennants with the cold, hard facts that Golden Boy is a criminal who has conned them.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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fear said:
Did you listen to the actual interaction or just parrot what the bobbleheads are blathering non-stop? MSM is a mind killer, turn it off. Stream the actual content only.
It didn't seem that bad to me. Bush was a lot more embarrassing when he opened his mouth.
The Orange one isn't bright enough to be some deep-state Russian-mole operative. No way.
And of course other countries and corporations will attempt to influence elections to some extent with marketing campaigns. It's always going to happen no matter what. The difference would be if they actually stuffed ballot boxes with false ID's or subverted the actual counting of votes.
Breath people... the Hysteria is crazy.
I disagree with much of what he/she typed. And yet, how refreshing it is to read an opinion from the other side that is plainly stated, has a clear meaning, and contains no nastiness. I can talk with people like this, even if I'm not convinced.
Thanks.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
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Hang on folks, the ride is about to get much bumpier. We have still only seen glimpses of what is going on.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
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Fear,your defense of a criminal is just as much hysterical.
Did it ever occur to you that the richest oligarch/mobster in the world could have something on Donald J. Trump?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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Jody gamely deflected -
You folks should really try relaxing and enjoying the ride with the greatest president in history.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
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The rate of indictments and arrests appears to be accelerating. Trump supporters are like people whining that a farmer hasn't shown them any crops. Well, the crops are ripe, and the farmer is about to harvest them and bring them to market to be haggled over.
Who'll give me ten years and a $50,000 fine? Fifteen years! And a fine, fine, fine, fine, fain. Do I hear twenty years? And a fine? Twenty years! And a fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. . . . . Thirty-five years! Do I hear a forty, forty, forty years?
Trump's fairy tale land of make-believe is now an official policy in an area that voted for Trump. City officials there passed legislation requiring citizens to reject reality in favor of an imaginary, false reality.
A small town in upstate New York has embraced the imaginary creature Bigfoot as its "official animal". City officials have voted to recognize the fictitious non-entity as actually existing. City inhabitants are required to fall in line, and observe a Bigfoot holiday each year.
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/nation-world/national/article214951325.html#storylink=latest_side
Whitehall village, in upstate New York, passed the resolution 4-0 and it also requires citizens to observe a Bigfoot “Appreciation Day” in September, reported the Albany Times Union.
Upstate New York is Trump country:
https://www.newyorkupstate.com/news/2016/11/donald_trump_wins_upstate_new_york.html
“It can’t hurt,” (Whitehall) village trustee George Armstrong told the newspaper.
Vote for me. What do you have to lose?"
Donald Trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/08/22/donald-trump-to-african-american-and-hispanic-voters-what-do-you-have-to-lose/?noredirect=on
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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:) It's a sign of the times when Fear Itself is asking us to calm down, lol.
I'm trying man.... seems though the ones that listen to the propaganda are almost in a frenzy.
This 24x7 propaganda cycle coupled with these omnipresent little glowing devices are the perfect means of control.
It's all circus... go for a hike for christsakes...
Did it ever occur to you that the richest oligarch/mobster in the world could have something on Donald J. Trump?
Wilbeer, Trump isn't the richest anything. How many times has the man been bankrupt? He's an insecure and hence immature television celebrity/brand at best. That's why he lashes out when attacked by other celebrity pundits. He's the face of a questionable 'luxury' brand... The same people that buy gold utensils on credit can possibly relate.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 16, 2018 - 12:58pm PT
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CNN is as credible as Alex Jones.
From the guy who thinks Drudge Report is unbiased.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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Wilbeer, Trump isn't the richest anything.
Well, to be fair, he was talking about Putin, not Trump.
Trump, who is not really stoopid, was clearly befuddled at how Putin tooled him.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 16, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
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Thats Werner. Jody fed at the state trough.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Cheap shot, ex-con.
Jody hasn't "lived off taxpayer money". He had a job that was paid out of taxpayer money. And his father, Mr. Ranger, didn't just chase Yogi and Boo-Boo away from picnic baskets. He made sure people were safe.
You should direct your "taxpayer money" rage at those CalTrans guys who get a disability check each month because they bruised their armpits leaning on a shovel all day. 8-)
And don't rip on WVB, either.
His idea of "leeching off the National Park System" was to live in a dusty campground with no showers or hot water, while waiting for the opportunity to drag human remains down class 4 trails in the middle of the night for minimum wage, plus tips.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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Good idea to check disability stats before launching down thiis path
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
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The meeting went for two hours, instead of the scheduled 45 minutes.
Trump brought a special gift for Putin: a box of Viagra.
Trump is not just insane. He believes everybody else is insane, too.
Trump says that because Putin was "powerful in his denials", all the evidence of Russian meddling must be inaccurate and false.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/world/europe/trump-putin-election-intelligence.html
Trump better hope that Putin offers him political asylum when the blade is raised. Trump would not fare well in prison, unless it's at the ADX Florence Supermax Facility, where he would have no contact with other inmates.
I want to see Ivanka all dolled-up in a collarless drab outfit.
Like this one:
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVvvvv
And it's pretty clear who the Impaler is in the Vlad-Don relationship.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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It's pretty clear who wears the pants in the Putin-Trump relationship
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 16, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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Hysteria;
When everyone is wrong,Democrats,Liberals,Socialist,FBI,CIA,Special Investigators and Russia and Trump are right.
HS
What about her emails?
Strong .....He really stayed on message and hardly lost his poise,lol.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
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The NSA, FBI and other investigators can obtain secret FISA warrants that allow them to wiretap phones, internet and other communication channels that are being used by U.S. citizens conducting illegal activity with foreign co-conspirators.
Trump has been reported as using unsecured cellphones, especially at night, to talk to Sean Hannity and other people who prop him up and advise him.
The FISA warrants are typically are only declassified after indictments have been released. Before then, the public doesn't hear anything about them.
Just saying.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Pussolini's excitement at getting some private one-on-one action as Putin's mistress probably caused him to put his wristwatch on upside down, and he became confused and disoriented.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
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Trump actually arrived 30 minutes early to make Pootin look late...Trump the stable genius...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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Well, first thing is that Jody did do a job for the taxpayer and was compensated, understandably. How good or bad of job I do not know.
But I agree with Tom, to slag him off for being a LEO, and pull his father into it, that is not on and that just turns people off, IMO. I disagree with most of what Jody believes in, but that is his right to have his opinion. And besides, he is a darn good photographer who supports a traitorous president who Jody thinks is the best ever. History will tell.
As for Werner, I have had my beef with him, and his ad nauseam "stoopid American" posts. But he is a damn fine SAR person.
In my opinion, bringing up these people does the poster no favours. Let's stick to more important facts. I thought what Trump did was utterly disgusting, but that is no surprise.
I do not go for hysteria or hyperbole, if I can help it. I am not a butt hurt snowflake either. Even though I live abroad, for many years, I am still an American (since 1640 my dad's family). I do not like the direction the country is headed - polarized, no compromise, no consensus. Trump has had a hand to play in that but by no means is the sole player.
When we forget about what history has taught us, then we have to go through the pain of learning all over again.©
I guess that is a meme. If so, the first one I have ever posted anywhere.
And I have to laugh… CNN is what? As bad as Alex Jones? That is a joke, right?
And BTW, I am no angel or saint. I can be a hypocrite. In the past on the Taco Stand I have been an arse, usually with one glass of wine too many, and frustrated by my own personal circumstances. That is no excuse, being an ass is just that, being an ass. At least I am not the ass that supposedly leads the nation.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Jul 16, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
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"Fetch......dats Putin's good boy!"
McCain ain't skerred! The rest of the Republican Party is cowering in their holes. Admit it......ya'll screwed the pooch on this gig.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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Johnnyrot Contractor...Interesting perspective of sill.. photo is heading across Palisades Glacier to Glacier Notch (scrambling on loose stuff) then across "L" Snow Field then a hundred meters up N. Couloir to the ledges that access an abbreviated start about 300 meters up from the toe of the Arete.
I'll put up a pictorial trip report soon
I was going to start painting in water colors to get away from all this sh#t then Jody crashed the party....it's on!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 16, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
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reaction from the right was swift. but nothing from Nunes
Sen. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz.
Jeff Flake
✔
@JeffFlake
I never thought I would see the day when our American President would stand on the stage with the Russian President and place blame on the United States for Russian aggression. This is shameful.
9:14 AM - Jul 16, 2018
61.7K
48.9K people are talking about this
Twitter Ads info and privacy
House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis.:
"There is no question that Russia interfered in our election and continues attempts to undermine democracy here and around the world," he stated. "The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals. The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy."
Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn.:
“I felt like that everyone who’s dealt with Putin understands fully that the best way to deal with him is through strength,” Corker told reporters. “I just feel like the president’s comments made us look like a nation, more like a pushover.”
Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich.
Justin Amash
@justinamash
A person can be in favor of improving relations with Russia, in favor of meeting with Putin, and still think something is not right here.
8:58 AM - Jul 16, 2018
9,307
3,123 people are talking about this
Twitter Ads info and privacy
Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee:
"Russia is not our friend. Russia attempted to undermine the fundamentals of our democracy, impugn the reliability of the 2016 election, and sow the seeds of discord among Americans," Gowdy said in a statement. "I am confident former CIA Director and current Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, DNI Dan Coats, Ambassador Nikki Haley, FBI Director Chris Wray, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and others will be able to communicate to the President it is possible to conclude Russia interfered with our election in 2016 without delegitimizing his electoral success."
Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla.
Marco Rubio
✔
@marcorubio
Foreign policy must be based on reality,not hyperbole or wishful thinking. And the reality is #Russia is an adversary. Because #Putin doesn’t believe in win/win scenarios & thinks only way to make Russia stronger is to make U.S. weaker. Any approach not based on this will fail.
10:24 AM - Jul 16, 2018
3,469
5,366 people are talking about this
Twitter Ads info and privacy
Ohio Gov. John Kasich
John Kasich
✔
@JohnKasich
We need to be clear. Russia is our foe. Putin is actively trying to hurt our country. America needs to speak with one voice AGAINST Russia.
9:29 AM - Jul 16, 2018
5,397
1,919 people are talking about this
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Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C.:
“Russia has conducted a coordinated cyberattack on state election systems, and hacked critical infrastructure," he said. "They have used social media to sow chaos and discord in our society. They have beaten and harassed U.S. diplomats and violated anti-proliferation treaties. Any statement by Vladimir Putin contrary to these facts is a lie and should be recognized as one by the President.
“Vladimir Putin is not our friend and never has been. Nor does he want to be our friend. His regime’s actions prove it. We must make clear that the United States will not tolerate hostile Russian activities against us or our allies.”
Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo.
Liz Cheney
✔
@Liz_Cheney
As a member of the House Armed Services Committee, I am deeply troubled by President Trump’s defense of Putin against the intelligence agencies of the U.S. & his suggestion of moral equivalence between the U.S. and Russia. Russia poses a grave threat to our national security.
10:22 AM - Jul 16, 2018
14.2K
8,183 people are talking about this
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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Jon—nice words, but most of them would never do anything, even though they have the power to do so. They all need to go.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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Several things here.
Firstly, that is a weird post xCon. I do not know if the guy had a gun or not (police have been know to plant them),but to say his son will vindicate him… what if he was to pull a weapon on the police…. I just do not know, if it was justified or not, I do not know, but to say his son will vindicate him? Do you have all the facts?
Okay, that aside, Back to Trump the traitor.
Yada, yada, yada, many (first world?) countries may try to interfere with a neighbors policies, as such. And yes the US has done it on a massive scale. So has the Kremlin. Right or wrong? Which side?
What goes around comes around.
But we are not talking about FDR, LBJ or Luke Skywalker.
We are not talking about the loser Hillary. Those are in the past.
We are looking at the person who is the POTUS. The now.
He sells himself well to his base, suffice to say, arguably, most others do not see Trump that easy, except the Kremlin. They see him in another light, all together. Dispute that.
Are you Trumpites out there really happy with what has transpired in Helsinki?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
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Patrick they’ll excuse anything, as long as trump’s defending white folks and pissing off liberals. If the country is to be saved from this sh#t show it will be in spite of them. Don’t look for reason or a defense of democratic values from them: you won’t find it. There are no bridges to be built: defeat them.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
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ts really to bad that 'good guy with a gun' in Chicago didn't whip it out when cornered by the bad guys and do some good with it
Calling for cops to be killed?
Xc0n is a sociopathic loozer. Pisst it's life is totally worthless except the days and nights spent here.
No one to blame but blames everyone. Mark-of-the-Loser
Consumate weirdo pussy. Name dropper nut swinger. You are NO climber
Come out of your hole and play. Where can you be found?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
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And one more thing, I am not a grammar Nazi, I could be (sub-editor on papers in California, England, Wales and Ireland), but heaven knows I have my typos. I have NEVER corrected somebody's spelling or grammar online in forums, ever, even if it is atrocious.
So, we all make mistakes typing or in grammar. I love the Taco Stand because I can go back and correct typos, mistakes, mistaken facts or just my plain idiocy.
Point is, so-called commentators go on about Trump's misspellings and grammar, big deal, so the guy is an idiot. Who cannot claim a perfect record of perfect posts? Can you? (I myself have NEVER, let me underline that NEVER, tweeted, I am too stupid to know how and too smart not to). Facebook,? Nah, social media is a Pandora's Box.
And remember, he seems to be usually half awake when he tweets, not that it matters, he could be wide awake and still tweet the shite he does.
Now, about Mr Twitter-Tweeter, aka the POTUS, what a sad soul he is.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
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Now that the GOP is playing follow the leader (Senator Flakey Jeff) to run away from Trump as fast as possible, the probability is increasing that the Senate will convict Trump on campaign finance, money-laundering, conspiracy and obstruction charges.
Two months ago, Trump could have "stood in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shot someone" and not lost any support from loyal GOP Senators.
Those days are gone, forever.
It is suddenly fashionable in Washington D.C. for GOP Congressmen to pull their heads out of their asses. It's no longer seen as a sign of weakness to admit that Trump is a lunatic who must be stopped before he does any more damage to the nation.
Vote for me. What do you have to lose?
Quite a bit, as it turns out.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:21pm PT
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Good luck with that.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Two months ago, Trump could have "stood in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shot someone" and not lost any support from loyal GOP Senators.
Those days are gone, forever.
Don't kind yourself Tom, his base is still there. Whether he is losing credibility in the GOP is questionable. He will still be the GOP candidate, the POTUS for reelection, in 2020 (and could win, horrors), these dickeahds (sp intentional) will not shift.
They have seen their cake, eaten it and want more, at the cost of America.
When all three branches of the American system (executive, legislative and judicial) answer to the same lord, then the US is screwed.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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I still don't understand how Russia interfered in your election. I mean, I know when I was in the US I could go vote, as a Canadian, but that is your own government's fault for allowing non-citizens, CA DL holders, to vote. That wasn't Russia's fault. You are all adults, make up your minds, cast your votes. How can you blame anyone else for the mess you voted yourself into now?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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My name is Patrick Sawyer. I have been a Supertopian since 2005. I was born in Kaiser Hospital, Walnut Creek, California, (1956) raised in Saranap, an unincorporated district between Lafayette and WC (Creektown to us locals). I have been climbing since 1969, properly trained by Smoke Blanchard and confederates (Chris Fredericks, John Fischer) in 1970.
I am not perfect, I sill have a lot to learn. I never finished the Salathe Wall. I can still lead up to 5.11, on a good day.
Here is my CV, I know what I talk about. Trump is sh#t. I am not much better, but way better than he is.
I have interviewed Maggie Thatcher, one tough lady, Bill Clinton, other presidents and prime ministers, captains of industry and celebrities.
Would I care to interview Donald Trump? For what reason? To be called Fake News, like he did for The Sun (I have worked on that, I needed the money to pay rent, I sold my soul, for a short while). A right-wing Murdoch paper who supports Trump and now says he is wrong about the interview, they have the tapes. They refuted his lies. The Sun, one of his most staunchest supporters in the UK.
I wonder if Trump even knows he is lying.
He is a scumbag, and yet, some of you still support him. He is a traitor to his country, he just want his name up in lights and money in his bank account.
Cannot you not see that? Honestly?
Does not work, how do I post a pdf of my CV?
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
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Now that the GOP is playing follow the leader (Senator Flakey Jeff) to run away from Trump as fast as possible, the probability is increasing that the Senate will convict Trump on campaign finance, money-laundering, conspiracy and obstruction charges.
Only if they see the writing on the wall,bi.e.they realize they will lose control of Congress, this fall.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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Go back to sleep Jody. You are boring as hell. Take your tax supported service revolver out and shoot yourself in the foot or drive down to San Diego and find an innocent young woman to violate.
Suppose the Chinese intelligence apparatus had hacked the Trump campaign (he was obviously quite anti-China) and feathered Clinton's nest to the extent that she won.
What would Trump be saying.
It's rigged I tell ya/
A whale of a story.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When Trump was lagging in the polls, and losing to Hillary, the election was rigged against him.
After Trump won the Electoral College, the general election was rigged with voter fraud.
Eighteen months later, Trump says the election was rigged in Hillary's favor. He says the Russians hacked into the DNC computers to help her win the election.
The Mueller investigation is closing in on Trump, so it, too, must be rigged.
His divorce settlement with Ivana was rigged. His fire-sale of his giant yacht was rigged. His casinos went bankrupt because the games were rigged. The lawsuit against his fraudulent Trump University was rigged. The public's decision to not buy Trump vodka was rigged. Trying to sell overpriced Trump Steaks through a mail-order catalog was a stupid idea, because reality is rigged.
No matter what happens, Trump says everything is rigged against him.
Trump is a textbook paranoid narcissist. Trump's sense of entitlement is so extreme, whenever he doesn't get his way he whines that it's not fair that somebody is violating the most basic law of the universe: Trump first, everybody else last.
Someday, when he is in a cage, college students will study him.
How can you blame anyone else for the mess you voted yourself into now?
That is a separate issue, from the fact that Russia illegally interfered in the election. Whether Trump would have won, anyway, is beside the point. Federal election laws were violated, and the Russians conspired to defraud the United States with those violations.
A great deal of evidence points to Trump's campaign staff as having conspired with the Russians. The people who have already pleaded guilty to low-level crimes were facing much more serious crimes, probably conspiracy.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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yeah, but help a self-indulgent Taco Stander, we all know, or most of us do, what Trump is, but I have been questioned in the past (look it up, I cannot be bothered) about my media credentials.
So how does one post a pdf of a CV? I need to be able to in order to soothe my ego.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
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Jody
climber
Occupied Territory
Jul 16, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
Yes, Russia interfered in the election. They colluded with Hillary's campaign
Source?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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The russians outed hillary by hacking into the democratic campaign emails...that hurt her and didn't help her...sorry jody...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
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xCon, I just saw your post.
What did I see in Maggie Thatcher? I was there, editor of Training Personnel, a fortnightly HRD magazine out of Wembley (Stonebridge Park), Maggie had just launched the TECs, Training and Enterprise Councils for England and Wales (Scotland and Northern Ireland were different).
August 1989
Me at the table, Maggie on the other side, her senior press officer, a press officer, her senior aide, an aide - five against one, hah hah, it was… daunting.
Twenty-five minutes, felt like a century. I was there to ask the questions, she tried to, shall we say, intimidate, bully, or… me. She was one tough cookie, big time. No shitting this person, she knew her stuff.
I held my ground and came out with a great interview. I think I still have it in a box somewhere.
I did not agree with Maggie's policies at all.
However, unlike Theresa May, Maggie would have eaten Trump and torn him to shreds.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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Nobody eats Trump without puking, except of course Judy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:39pm PT
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Donna Brazile, DNC chair(at the time).
Donna Brazil said hillary colluded with the Russians?
I’ve never heard that.
Source?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
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That is a separate issue, from the fact that Russia illegally interfered in the election. Whether Trump would have won, anyway, is beside the point. Federal election laws were violated, and the Russians conspired to defraud the United States with those violations.
I still don't understand how Russia did this? Did they influence your vote? Mine? Hillary's? Which election laws were violated? Who did it and how?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
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Yes, Russia interfered in the election. They colluded with Hillary's campaign and the DNC to screw Sanders in the primary.
The russians outed hillary by hacking into the democratic campaign emails...that hurt her and didn't help her...sorry jody...
How does bringing the truth out to light for all to see hurt your democracy/republic? Jody, please explain to a guy who only spent a decade in your country and now no longer lives in a Republic but a Democracy with more than two parties to vote for.
If that really happened, and you can prove it, how does it violate election rules?
you are a liar, Jody..........prove it
Seems like she is proving it by posting hearsay.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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Patrick, convert the pdf to a jpeg and post as a photo.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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I cringe to think about the possibility of war between nuclear powers. Or war period. But every president in the past has brought you more war.
Now you have one who talks about peace, actually has dialog with people you are frothing at the mouth to bomb, and I'm not going to be surprised if he gets the boot.
OTOH, it would be good for Canada if some dummy could go back in and let us keep taking advantage of you in trade again....
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
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Here you go fools
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
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Yes, Russia interfered in the election. They colluded with Hillary's campaign and the DNC to screw Sanders in the primary.
another Jody lie
prove it
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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So Contractor, HOW did he do that?
I mean, you live in a type of democracy where votes help determine somewhat, who becomes president, no?
What could have been done to influence those votes? Does he own the media? They were all against Trump.
Did he own the electronic voting machines?
I can't think of any other way to influence you or me when we went to the polls. Did he post on ST? No, nobody changes their mind on anything because of ST posts.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
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Cornell University Law:
When it was revealed that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election by hacking into the email system of the Democratic National Committee and releasing its emails, international lawyers were divided over whether the cyber-attack violated international law. President Obama seemingly went out of his way to describe the attack as a mere violation of “established international norms of behavior,” though some international lawyers were more willing to describe the cyber-attack as a violation of international law. However, identifying the exact legal norm that was contravened turns out to be harder than it might otherwise appear. To the layperson, the Russian hacking constituted an impermissible (and perhaps shocking) interference in the American political process—an intervention that non-lawyers would not hesitate to label a “violation of sovereignty” as that term is used in political or diplomatic discourse.
The problem arises when one attempts to translate that common-sense intuition into legal discourse. At that point, the translation effort breaks down for a variety of reasons. The genesis of the difficulty is that none of the standard rubrics for understanding illegal interventions clearly and unambiguously applies to the facts in question. That being said, it would be a mistake to hastily reject our common-sense intuitions about the impropriety of Russian hacking during the election. The lack of fit with the doctrinal requirements for an illegal intervention against another state’s sovereignty is simply an indication that the notions of “sovereignty” and “intervention”—though mainstays of contemporary public international law doctrine—are poorly suited to analyzing the legality of the conduct in this case. A far better rubric for analyzing the behavior is the notion of self-determination, a legal concept that captures the right of a people to decide, for themselves, both their political arrangements and their future destiny.
This is the gist of what google searches say... in other words, Obama said legally it wasn't crossing the line even though citizens could feel it was in poor taste, even though it didn't force their hand when voting.
Try google sometime
Nobody seems to know. Not even google. Can't get a straight answer on what was done, why it was wrong, and how it influenced an individual's vote.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
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HOW did he do that?
Look Brosephus, its obvious you haven't been paying attention or have the slightest Canucking idea wtf is going on so maybe you can spend some time getting up to speed on what the relevant Law is instead of us having to hold your hand?
Or just be a dumbass holding opinions without any real knowledge like most conservatives I know?
If you ask again I will mock you a second time....
How were you influenced by the Russians? Would you change your vote if they hadn't interfered? How did they dupe you? Is the country blaming others for their own poor choice? I'm not mocking you... really. But I guess that admitting that you were duped by the Russians into voting for Trump would support the theory that they interfered in the election, and would explain how they did so. So far I have never met an American who has admitted this. And none of them I know voted for Trump. I was on the phone with a couple the night the ballots were counted and they were crying, unbelief, that a clown got elected. The Russians didn't fool them.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
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Read the 29 page indictment tooth
Available at justice.gov and elswhere
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
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https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download
I have.
Still doesn't answer my question of why anyone voted for Trump because of this. And I'm sure now that nobody ever will admit that they did so because of this.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
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and lying, except under oath, is not a crime
ask Jody, he knows all about lying
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
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Stealing information from private computers and from political opponents is a crime. Conspiring and colluding with foreign governments to commit crimes is a crime.
JODY
So now Yes, Russia interfered in the election. They colluded with Hillary's campaign and the DNC to screw Sanders in the primary.
This isn't the crime anymore? Interfering in the election?
TOM
That is a separate issue, from the fact that Russia illegally interfered in the election
Still no evidence of interference. Just hacking that thing in Clinton's closet. When American voters read private emails of people they were voting for we are supposed to believe that caused interference in the voting process?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
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obtuse much?
Still not one answer on how it influenced a single vote, let alone how it swayed the entire election from 24% chance of Trump winning to what we have today.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
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Admit it then, the Russians fooled you into voting for Trump.
Don't be mad at me, I didn't vote for him.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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Now I can understand the anger. It must mostly be from Americans who were fooled, but now they want a do-over. Your world really does work like that, fickle, who has the best dirt on the other guy?! Yeah, I guess I couldn't work for the Russians, they already knew how silly .. damn, 10 years down there and I missed it. Maybe next time you'll vote based on things that matter?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:07pm PT
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Were people fooled?
Hard to know for sure.
The next election may shed light on it
If you wanna change your pseudonym to anus I can direct you to preparation h on Amazon
I get a kickback for referrals
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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RICO RCO RICOZ
Is there an echo in the chamber
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
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tooth: As with many crimes, simply attempting to commit the crime is a crime in itself. Whether or not the crime is actually committed.
Of course, which is why I keep quoting these guys who use the words influence et al. That means the attempt was attempted/carried out/completed and it actually made a difference. It INFLUENCED someone's vote. Had an effect on that vote, and thus the outcome of the election. Yikes.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
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So I used to surf south of San Onofre on the Camp Pendelton base, DMJs. Get saluted by everyone going in there with my classmates who were marines. Listened to stories about how a buddy of theirs works for the Clintons. Everybody knows they have skeletons in their closets, even us Canadians who don't care. The emails were congruent with what everyone already knew. I just can't see how it actually 'influenced' as everyone keeps claiming, or blaming. Everyone knew the Trump brand beforehand as well. Nothing new came out about him either. You would think that if the media really had sway, he never would have been elected as I never saw anything positive about him, and like 90% negative. the rest was just obligatory NPR type reporting.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
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Is Jody the guy who spent his entire life living off taxpayer money? The guy who lived an entitled childhood off the National Park budget, and now wants to abolish the EPA?
Is that the Jody we are talking about?
Jody is an ex cop(CHP) who prided himself on meeting his ticket quota.
Claims to be a christian, but likes to play the victim(how ironic).
At times he attacks people whose opinions he doesn't like with vulgar ad hominems.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
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DMT,This is why I referred upthread to the USA as a type of democracy, and Republic, since a pure democracy uses popular vote, which you do not, as every grade 6 kid knows. However, nobody said it was about foreigners breaking US law, it was about Russians influencing the election - something I quoted by two individuals arguing amongst themselves with differing points of view.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
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Tooth brings a point to bear totally separate from clear treason and meddling which DID happen with the help of Fox news, Wikileaks, a few Congressmen, several American corporatist, foreign oligarchs and a whole bunch of dumbsh!t voters.
Nobody did a reach behind and made you punch the hole next to Trump- you did that all on your own. So yes, we have about 25% of our electorate that are complete idiots and do not posess the intellectual curiosity to make informed decisions.
That said, heads need to roll, lies once again, need to be considered absolutely unacceptable with punitive consequences and the weak idiots need to get back to Big Buck Hunter for Xbox.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:42pm PT
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So you are insinuating that FB ads influenced you and Jody in who you voted for? Is this for real?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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As far as I have seen, Democrats vote inspirationally, Republicans persperationally. Republicans out of duty to God and Country, part of being Republican, it's their job, duty. Democrats if they feel seratonin or dopamine, which is why Obama made it.
It only stands to reason then that FB ads made Democrats emotional.... ?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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The faux FB news releases of Hillary serving fetal baby parts on the Dominos pizza actually won her votes...
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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Americans built, own, run and operate FB. Now you need to make rules and laws to protect yourselves somehow from ads because..... Russians can make you do things that way?
WIRED
And they were doing it in way that, for now at least, is totally legal. It raises a crucial question about political divisiveness in America: Who's the bigger threat? Russian trolls or ourselves?
I can see how a grown up could truly say that he didn't interfere or influence the US election because it is unfathomable that just running FB ads could actually interfere or influence Americans. Same with putting out emails that even the indictment quotes as being benign and known.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 16, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
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Even the reliably pro-Trump Drudge Report issued a harsh verdict. “Putin Dominates,” the site’s lead all-caps headline read.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:11pm PT
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Jody is an ex cop(CHP) who prided himself on meeting his ticket quota.
Claims to be a christian, but likes to play the victim(how ironic).
At times he attacks people whose opinions he doesn't like with vulgar ad hominems.
Plus (ad hominem) he likes Ted Cruz. Yuck. Seriously, Ted Cruz????
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
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Tooth-persperationally yes, definitely tooth, not teeth...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
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Patrick, convert the pdf to a jpeg and post as a photo.
Okay Winemaker, I'll try that,
BTW, Mac Sawyer, Robert Bruce MacGregor Sawyer, my brother and my best friend (and an okay climber, just, hah hah), was a top viticulturist and oeneologist (sp?)
Some of his wines would go for $5,000 a bottle in restaurants (Conn Valley Vineyards, Napa) Francis Ford Coppola once told me ( different story but I could repeat it), "Mac Sawyer, tell him to send me his resume, I want him on my team." FACT, Coppola told me that.
Robert Parker, the false god of wine, always rated Mac's wine in the high 90s.
Mac was the best, graduated from Davis, studied for his MS at Montpelier in France. His wife (widow) Kathleen and I agree, why did he not push himself, his name and talent, further? He was the best. Etienne, of Hugel et Fils, Riquewihr, France, his uncle Johnny (a great man, one of the best winemakers in France, I worked under him), they agreed, Mac was one of the best, yet my brother did not want the accolade.
And it was Johnny (Jean) Hugel, who taught me that wine was simple. "Wine is what you like. you use your nose, you use your brain. If you like it, forget what others say, enjoy it."
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:19pm PT
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So FB ads and leaked emails are to blame for influencing and actually affecting the election but nobody actually voted for Trump because of those two official reasons. One was legal, one illegal. It is illegal in the US so you are going to drag twelve Russians back to the US and put them in prison. Then tie them to Trump and impeach him. Then still be left with a load of dummies who vote via FB ads and leaked emails. Make the FB ads illegal and blame the next c*#k up on something else equally as sad. Seems like democracy is in question.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 10:34pm PT
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Wow, Ross, heavy man. I bow to your knowledge.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
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14 years of reading SuperTopo political threads and I have never seen an American change your minds or change another's mind on politics. Suddenly FB ads are doing it? Or a set of leaked emails?
Something you are being sold doesn't add up to me but nonetheless, you are buying it.
I'm with treez, get someone environmentally friendly in asap - and yeah, free healthcare is awesome!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 16, 2018 - 11:29pm PT
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Full-time (24/7) Home Caregiver (Partner’s Carer)
I have done a lot in life, but being a full-time carer was the toughest. Do not underestimate what home carers do, they may be looking after your mom, they may be your sister or brother, give them support.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 12:05am PT
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I still don't understand how Russia did this?
U.S. elections are not free-for-all events. There are rules, such as who can donate what to election campaigns. It is specifically forbidden for foreigners to donate, or otherwise provide assistance to a candidate.
Russia provided funds to the National Rifle Association, which found their way into various GOP candidate's campaign funds. That was a Federal violation of campaign finance laws.
Russia broke into the Democratic National Committee's computer system, and stole information that was then released because it was damaging to Hillary Clinton. That violated campaign finance laws (an in-kind contribution) and also laws against cyber crime in general.
Russian agents engaged in an extensive and sophisticated social-media campaign to disseminate disinformation to disadvantage Hillary Clinton. For example, a false story about Hillary Clinton running a child sex-slave ring out of the basement of a Washington D.C. pizza parlor was believed to have begun with the Russian operatives. The social media campaign may not have broken Federal laws, but was still influential in the election.
At least a dozen Trump campaign officials met with Russian agents, oligarchs or government officials during the election. The purpose of those meetings has been obfuscated by the attendees, but it is suspected that it was to coordinate efforts to maximize damage to the Clinton campaign. The most famous event was a meeting in Trump Tower between Trump's campaign chairman, son and son-in-law, for a specific purpose of obtaining illicitly-gained information about Hillary Clinton that would be damaging to her campaign (i.e., "dirt" on Hillary). The Russians who provided the information broke campaign laws, and Trump's campaign staff broke the laws when they agreed to meet in order to receive the information. Conspiracy to commit a crime does not require that the crime actually take place; planning to commit a crime with others is itself a crime.
The barrage of false and misleading information that Russia released upon the American public served to provide cover for Donald Trump's own false and misleading statements. The environment in which Trump operated was highly polluted with lies and falsehoods, so that his own lies and falsehoods seemed normal by comparison.
The Russians operated in a similar manner during the British Brexit election, with a great deal of misinformation about the consequences of Britain leaving the European Market. The British government is currently investigating interference in its election, in a manner analogous to Robert Mueller's investigation in the U.S.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 01:32am PT
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Trump has no mind left, either. He is completely insane.
Trump is now saying that his father, Fred Trump, was born in the European Union, which did not exist in 1905. If Trump meant to say that his father was born in Germany, which is now part of the EU, that is also a lie.
https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Trump-launches-another-birther-conspiracy-theory-13078755.php#photo-9418767
Fred Trump was born in the Bronx, New York City, New York. Never, until now, has anyone disputed this. Trump's grandfather, Friedrich Drumpf, was born in Germany, and was later expelled from the country for evading his military service.
Trump is rapidly losing what little is left of his mind. He doesn't even know where his father was born. He just babbles away, with no connection to the reality of the 7.2 billion.
The next thing he may declare is that he is the son of John Jacob Astor, Ava Gardner was his baby sitter and first lay, and that he married Paris Hilton with Alex Jones as the priest and Sean Hannity as the witness.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 05:54am PT
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I wonder, how many Americans wished they had Putin as a leader.
He is competent, in good physical shape for his age, powerful, arguably the richest man in the world, sitting on about $200bn, if reports are correct (he claims his wife and he are with about $3m or so, yeah right, pull the other leg please). Most Russian people love him, I guess, according to reports (from the Kremlin?).
Some sort of black belt.
Contrast with Donald. Incompetent, a fat ass, would have sex with a donkey (or perhaps young men and women, it wouldn't surprise me), not that powerful (that is the Kochs), a Koch sucker, but a loud mouth, a failed businessman (though in his bankruptcies, the shareholders took the hit, not Donald, so maybe he is not that dumb), cheats on his wives, marries an illegal, undocumented "model". So vain, that Carly Simon was prescient, except she didn't know Donald (or did she?).
A greedy, self-centered person, only out for himself. A sicko in a sick society.
Just about sums up America in its present state. My forefathers would be turning in their graves.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 06:00am PT
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Wow, I just saw Russ' post about me. And a good evening to you too Russ. Hemorrhoids bothering you?
Perhaps if you gave up the anal sex, it might help. Otherwise, I always like your posts, but if you want to attack me, go ahead. Yawn.
And yes sir, I can still lead 5.11, albeit a bit "shakily". Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I do not recall ever attacking you Russ. Do I irritate you that much for you to get personal? No tongues please, I do not swing that way.
To each their own.
EDIT
Russ, I do not question your prowess as a man, as a climber. I do question your judgment of humans. You always come across as… a Donald Trump, egotistical, a blowhard, a blaggard, (take that anyway you like, no doubt you will take it as a compliment), but are you real?
I have no beef against you, but by your post earlier, you do not like me. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Outside of the minute or so to write this, I could not give a sh#t what you think of me.
Carry on and fire away.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 06:34am PT
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Agree, he had a liberal and multi-cultural perspective that, in the end, was surprisingly tethered by the midwestern pragmatism he inherited from his grandparents. A nice balance for an unbalanced electorate.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:13am PT
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Well, to those Trump supporters…
White punks on dope.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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I don’t think Russian intereference had much of an impact on undecided or independent voters. Instead, their efforts, from what I’ve seen, were intended to rile up Trump’s right wing base, both to sew discord, often along racial lines, and get out the vote. Elections are largely won nowadays by appealing to the base instead of swing voters.
And, of course, a lot of information about dnc operations was simply a product of Russian theft.
In such a close race, with two historically unpopular candidates, there were many factors that tipped the election in trump’s favor: this was one of them. Even if it had no effect, no matter. For a president to go to the perpetrator and side with him, then blame the victim, is appalling. I’ve never seen a more shameful display by a US president, and I doubt we could find one in the history books. I have no idea if trump is beholden to Russia. Certainly his behavior the past 2 years is suspicious. Regardless of his motives, he is laying the groundwork for removal through impeachment (I know, won’t happen), something I’ve been very reluctant to embrace, but his actions regarding intereference are dangerous and inexcusable.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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I love that article. Basically says, someone posted on social media. They targeted me. So I relinquish responsibility for my actions and blame the targeting for the breakdown of democracy. Lets go after them and not take responsibility ourselves.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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Good point tooth... but they still need to stay the f*#k out of our elections and quit stealing sh#t.
And, I expect our president to stick up for us.
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nafod
Boulder climber
State college
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:56am PT
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were intended to rile up Trump’s right wing base Recent elections have been about nothing but the base, on either side. Who can get their base off the couch to vote?
It's been that way for a while, and it is going to stay that way, it looks. Many thanks to the internet's ability to allow people to only read what like-minded people read and nothing else.
This is why having a political thread on a climbing forum (or fishing, knitting, flying, etc.) is useful. People actually get exposed to different views from folks that have some common bond with other than political views.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 08:55am PT
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How in the world can you bankrupt a casino? Donald did. His own casino. Either it was stupidity or a sham. A con.
If the former, no surprise there, if the latter, then he is an outright crook.
And you suckers voted for him. Have a good time in Disneyland.
EDIT
Oh wait, I just saw the posts. If I was Trump I'd be loving the abuse and attention. Russ and Cosmic, yeah, it is not bullsh#t, I can still lead 11, perhaps not with the best style. Can either of you?
Jody, stick to the photos, that is your strong point.
So I stick my neck out there, sort of, and dickheads are waiting to cut it off. No probs. I am having fun, you want to ridicule me, I ridicule back. Schoolyard stuff.
You have taught me a new meaning of wankers. Do you do it in front of a mirror, in public or just in a closet?
And Russ, dig up all my previous posts. I admit I was also a wanker in some, I have already stated that. I have the self-confidence and demeanor to admit I have been an ass at times. When are Cosmic and you going to come clean?
EDIT
In all my posts since 2005, I have been honest. Mistaken, misinformed or just plain dumb, but I have tried my best to be honest. To this day. Sometimes I let out more info than was necessary, but I find a kinship with this forum. Sometimes I spell my heart out, sometimes I make an ass of myself, but I have never lied or deceived. I have never exaggerated.
So to the Jodys, Russ's, Cosmic (what a sad soul it seems) and all the others, smile, life is so short, and some of us spend it on the Taco Stand.
Realistically, there is eff all climbing in the SE of Ireland (Wexford), and you lot have loads of rock on your doorstep, so to speak. And you find time to diss me on the net when you should be climbing? Talk about sad lives.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:23am PT
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Russ, I deleted my CV because I thought it was inappropriate for this forum. Yes, I had some wine on me, and I did it before I "sobered" up as you see it. It was a stupid move on my part to show that I am no bot, that I have done what I have said I have done, if that makes sense to you.
I have stated more than once that I am driven by my emotions, a lot. I am not as cool and calculating as you are Russ, but I am just as honest as you are.
so go ride a donkey. :-)
And yes I do back edit. If I see a typo I go back to correct it, perhaps being an editor, sub-editor and copy editor for years, it is a habit. If I make a mistake or if I feel I have been "misinformed", I will correct it. You seem to have a problem with that Russ, by your post. I make mistakes. Do you?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:40am PT
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Christ Patrick, I like you but you’ve gotta stop your public hand wringing. It attracts the haters, and frankly to everyone else it gets tiresome.
You keep doing this—for years—and keep getting the same result.
When someone keeps sticking his finger in the pencil sharpener then repeatedly complains that his finger hurts, well, there is a solution to that.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:41am PT
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I can still lead 11, perhaps not with the best style. Can either of you?
What does "not with the best style" mean? You can aid climb a 5.11? (I suppose that may depend on the 5.11.)
Let me also express some doubts as to the veracity of this claim; I'd be surprised if you could lead "real" 5.9 at this stage of the game, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Feel free to prove the doubters wrong: if you post recent video of you leading 5.11 (free climbing, not aiding), I'll happily donate $100 to a charity of your choice (only limitation: must be 501(c)(3)). I'll even take a climbing gym ascent for this purpose.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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you back edit and delete too much to leave a permanent record. That seems works for you.
Why did you delete the entire CV you posted last night? Did it seem like even too much to you after sobering up?
I believe I addressed that Russ.
For Somebody, I did not state I was a strong 5.11 leader, I stated I can still lead a 5.11. And any 5,11s I have led (about several dozen) I never yo-yoed, I never, what is that term red-dogged, is that the correct term? I led on sight, that was back in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
I am still in good shape at 62, I can still lead up to E3, I did so three months ago (Space Shuttle, E3 6b, in Dalkey Quarry.) And if you want witnesses, why should I bother them with your insecure thoughts. Believe me or do not. I do not give a flying f*#k.
EDIT
Why are we even talking about this? I suppose I am to "blame" as I 'invited' questions/ridicule by some of my posts, going off topic. This thread is about a megalomaniac who is "leading" our nation. To some, the best POTUS ever, to others a piece of worthless crap, bringing down America. As is obvious, I am in the latter camp. And strangely, those whom diss me (about climbing 5.11), are Trump supporters. Dudes, he lies, I do not.
led on sight,
Have I pulled on gear? Yes, more than once. Have I led a 5.11 "cleanly", a number of times, no pulling on gear. Yes, big time. Am I am good climber? What the eff is a good climber.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 09:49am PT
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If God had intended people to have a pissing contest here over how hard they can climb, He wouldn't have invented IM and DM.
How in the world can you bankrupt a casino? Donald did. His own casino. Either it was stupidity or a sham. A con.
Trump in Atlantic City was a classic case of grandiosity mixed with inexperience, fueled by other people's money and executed just as other areas of the country were also legalizing table gambling. The short story is that Trump came roaring into town, from out of nowhere, and with no experience, and decided that he would build three giant casinos, each much larger than any existing casino there. Steve Wynn (if memory serves) noted in an interview that if Trump did even a little research, he would have known that not even one of his massive casinos would have survived.
Trump also used expensive junk bonds to finance his casinos. He claims to be the World's Greatest Businessman, but he doesn't do even basic research before going all in after leveraging the deal with other people's money.
Trump did the same thing with the Trump Shuttle. He bought in, and then flew by the seat of his pants. The airline industry is notoriously unforgiving to anybody who doesn't know what they are doing. Even the major players have a hard time staying in business. Pan Am went down the tubes about the same time as the Trump Shuttle.
Trump relies on his intuition, and ignores competent advisors. He is a malignant narcissist who believes he is infallible, and that he "alone, can fix it". Like a mad scientist con man, he is incessantly experimenting with other people's money (and now people's lives) and he doesn't care what happens. The juice, for him, is being the boss, and calling the shots, and taking all the credit. When the experiment blows up in his face, he blames somebody else, and denies he had any role in the explosion.
Trump has said that he uses "touch and feel" (It's what I do) when dealing with international politics, like at his meeting with Kim Jong-Un. Instead of preparing for the meeting with his knowledgeable advisors, he boasted that in "two minutes" he'd size up the North Korean leader, and then Tweet that their nuclear program is dismantled, everyone can sleep safely now, and Donald The Great has done it again.
Trump "feels" that Putin is trustworthy (he does it more gently when Trump pinches down on him) and his "gut" (literally) tells him that Putin is a great guy. All his advisors, like the NSA, CIA, and FBI, tell him otherwise, but he ignores them. Trump bends for Putin because his (massaged) gut tells him that Putin is the man for him.
Nobody can tell Trump what to do. He's Donald John Trump the First, goddamn it!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:53am PT
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I tell them, "I shoot in the low 70's".
I shoot in the 70s, also. To do that, though, I have to quit about the 12th hole.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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I am still in good shape at 62, I can still lead up to E3, I did so three months ago (Space Shuttle, E3 6b, in Dalkey Quarry.) And if you want witnesses, why should I bother them with your insecure thoughts. Believe me or do not. I do not give a flying f*#k.
I don't want witnesses, I want a video--will be hilarious :)
I don't want to see any red-dogging though!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 10:02am PT
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Nobody can tell Trump what to do. He's Donald John Trump the First, goddamn it!
Well, he has certainly left his mark on history. He must be getting his jollies off on that.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 10:02am PT
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Tom, you write some very clear and articulate comments. Thanks.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 10:12am PT
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This forum is a great place to write things down, because people will give honest, even viciously libelous, feedback to what they read. It serves as a record of what is transpiring through the Querencia Phase of the Trump Presidency.
Twitter is too restrictive. I laugh when I see people commence a Twitter Tantrums with "1/9" because they need 3960 characters, not 440, to make their point.
Trump does the "dot, dot, dot, dot, dot-dot-da-da-dot-dot" thing that Stephen Colbert translates into English so well.
Someday, we will be able to look back at these times, and laugh.
But, not just yet.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Laugh it up, Fuzzball.
Han Solo
I once saw a golfer on TV attempting the winning putt of a PGA event. As the ball rolled, he did a bit of a celebration walk/dance for the crowd. The ball lipped the cup, and stayed high and dry. His opponent beat him on a playoff hole, and he, too, was left high and dry.
He who laughs last, laughs best.
My old joke about shooting a 70 was that I could only do it at Sea Pines, which is a nine-hole course where you tee off with a pitching wedge about half of the time.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 11:11am PT
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Trump s'posd to be coming on TV again at 2(it's 10 after right now).
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
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So on this libtard circle jerk, there are some right-wing nuts jerking too, gotta love America.
What is Russian for, "gotcha ya'"
And for Russ and Cosmic and Jody and all of you so-called patriots, I am laughing. Call me any names you want.
I know the Constitution.
Do you?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
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What is Russian for, "gotcha ya'"
“MAGA”
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
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ATG, Trump likes sheep, as you do I imagine.
Goats for me. Dickhead. And when you pray to your almighty Lord, when you think you have given water to poor villagers, to soothe your soul, not their thirst, then tell me how righteous you are.
I am having fun, you silly right-wing snowflakes.
EDIT
You have to understand one thing, my poor right-wing snowflake, I look at a number of sources for news and opinion. Russ disses me because he is stuck in his rhetoric, in Utah or right-wing hell, whatever. I see you people. I read this thread. I laugh. And I cry.
The joke is on you and I, the 1% or so love that we argue. They want division. It is not Deep State, as such, it is Corporatocracy, Perhaps they go hand in hand. Trump is just a puppet. He is just a symptom of the malaise that affects us all.
I have no answers to this condition. I have ideas, whether they are workable or not…
I admit, I do not know what the future is. But look up the definition of fascism. I see it unfolding in the US and elsewhere.
It is not a healthy state of affairs, just ripe for a novel.
And again, you right-wing nutters, mock me. I do not care. I should, but I don't.
EDIT
And Russ, Maggie Thatcher had more balls than you will ever have,
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
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What is Russian for, "gotcha ya'"
(You Really) Got Me Good
It's a song by Emin Agalarov, the pop-star son of a Russian oligarch who was the connective tissue between Trump Tower Moscow and Vladimir Putin.
Emin was a host of Trump's now-notorious 2013 Miss Universe Pageant that took place in Moscow. Emin was the one who contacted Don Jr. to set up the now-notorious 2016 meeting in Trump Tower where Don Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort met with Russian agents to obtain "dirt" on Hillary Clinton.
Emin mocks and ridicules Trump in his new music video. Emin knows that Trump's demise is at hand, and that he has to get his timely pop tune out there, now, before its relevance expires.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
MORE PROOF THAT TRUMP IS AN OPPORTUNISTIC LIAR
LIKE OTHER CON MEN, HE SIZES UP HIS MARKS, AND TAILORS HIS DECEPTIVE DELIVERY TO FIT THE SITUATION
Trump now says:
"OK, OK, OK, I think the Russians did it . . . . . . ."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/world/europe/trump-putin-summit.html
Reality, to Trump, is relative to himself. For him, there is no objective reality. It's all about him.
When it served his purpose, he said, There was no Russian meddling.
Now that it serves his purpose, he says, Yes, there was Russian meddling.
Trump is like a weather vane, twisting and turning in the wind, always following which way it blows.
Ironically, ATG makes really nice weather vanes.
It is highly likely that Trump will say that he was the very first person to acknowledge that the Russians interfered in the 2016 election.
Or, he might say that he was the one who tipped off Robert Mueller about the Trump Tower meeting, using a secret, coded message (his false narrative about adopting Russian babies) to throw the Fake News hounds off the scent.
It's what I do.
Donald Trump
President Trump said on Tuesday that he had misspoken a day earlier in Helsinki, Finland
“The sentence should have been ‘I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia,’ sort of a double negative,” he said.
How's it coming with the wax job, Biff?
I'm just now finishing up the second coat, Mr. McFly.
Now, Biff, don't you try to con me . . . .
I'm sorry, Mr. McFly. What I meant to say was, 'I'm just now getting ready to start on the second coat'.
That Biff; what a character.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
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In a stunning about-face, President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he had “full faith” in America’s intelligence agencies — a day after he appeared to dismiss their conclusion that Russia meddled in the US elections while standing side by side with Vladimir Putin.
Speaking at the White House, in remarks which were not broadcast on live TV, he also said “I accept” the intelligence community’s verdict that meddling took place — but that there was “no collusion.”
Did he shoot himself in the shoe?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 17, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
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Hey now.... comon be nice...
Goats are awesome. Anything that eats poison ivy is cool.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 01:55pm PT
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I have left my guard down a number of times on this forum. I did so in the belief that most Supertopians are honest and good people. But I see there are some shitbags.
Okay, that is life.
I wish ill upon nobody.
But some people have decided to seize upon my admissions of human frailty to belittle me.
Boo hoo.
I cry, not for myself, but for their ignorance. It must be a terrible thing to go through life an ignoramus. I pity them.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
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Patrick, while you are at it, can you email Trump and let him know that Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom?
Trump seemed to be confused on that point last weekend, when he was sneaking in some free advertising for his golf courses while speaking about the United Kingdom. The only countries he mentioned were Scotland (Turnberry and Balmedie) and Ireland (Doonbeg).
For Trump, the only reality is what is immediately relative to himself.
No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant.
Senator John McCain of Arizona
When Domitian tried to pull that appeasement nonsense with Decebalus, and tried to bribe the Dacian terrorist into passivity, it blew up in his face.
Domitian's soldiers rose up and killed him for embarrassing them and the Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domitian#Dacian_wars_(85%E2%80%9388);
I like Presidents who weren't caught (lying to the public).
John McCain, to himself
Here are some quotes by GOP Senators regarding Trump's disgraceful press conference as Putin's Poodle in Helsinki:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/16/us/politics/republicans-trump-putin-russia-reaction.html
Senator Devin "The Weasel" Nunes is conspicuously absent from the roster.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 17, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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I am having fun, f*#k you as#@&%es, I can still lead 5.11.
Translation: f*#k you as#@&%es = I can still lead 5.11, ass wipes.
Why don't you prove it and earn $100 for the charity of your choice? I'll make it 100 euros even, pretty close to the same these days.
Just post the video. (But please be very careful--don't try it when you've been drinking and choose a safe route--I know you get very excitable, but I don't want to see you, or anyone else, get hurt -- been there done that.)
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
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I've never heard anyone confess to liken to dork farm animals. From Wiki........
The Enumclaw horse sex case was a 2005 incident in which Kenneth Pinyan (1960–2005), a Boeing engineer residing in Enumclaw, Washington, died from injuries received during receptive anal sex with a stallion at a farm in an unincorporated area in King County, Washington, near the city of Enumclaw. Pinyan distributed zoophile porn under the alias Mr. Hands.
During a July 2005 sex act, videotaped by a friend, Pinyan suffered a perforated colon from receptive anal intercourse with a stallion and later died of his injuries. The story was reported in The Seattle Times and was one of that paper's most read stories of 2005. It was informally referred to as the "Enumclaw horse sex case". Video footage of Pinyan and a horse was later disseminated through the Internet.
I believe the guy who set this up was some climber type person from B.C. I seem to recall a Taco thread about this.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, has a big agricultural program, with all sorts of animals, plants, crops, etc.
About ten years ago, some guy who was graduating with an agricultural degree was taken by his "friends" out to the ovine unit for his going-away party.
The campus police arrived to find the intoxicated graduate not quite in congress with those ladies, ovine, but he was wearing the stereotypical rubber boots for sticking their hind legs into.
The cops turned him over to his "friends" with a warning to not molest the sheep.
I couldn't find the Cal Poly incident using Google.
But, a computer science guy (geek?) at Fresno State* was facing serious charges after being arrested after he got drunk and was "stressed about midterm exams".
The newspaper story doesn't say if he had a tattoo that read I Love Ewe.
http://abc7.com/news/fresno-state-student-sexually-assaults-sheep-police-say/396372/
Where have you been? We thought you left the party.
I was out back, by the pens. I almost got laid.
Really?
Yeah. But, when I went to stick it in, I got kicked in the shins.
True story dialogue.
* Walt "Malt Whipley" Shipley got his mechanical engineering degree from Fresno State. At no time is it suggested that he did anything worse than say, "Ma-Ma-Ma-Ma-Mammaries" at a frat party, and then run for his life.
This is a climbing related post, after all.
RUSS:
You are the portaledge expert, and have been for decades. I still can't believe people still use aluminum for the frame tubes. There was an A5 for sale here recently with typical damage to the soft metal. Your cro-moly frame is, as they say, the BEST, the GREATEST. You know what you are talking about. We trust you.
Is it possible to shrink a portaledge's nylon fabric bed back down, if it is stretched out? I was thinking hot water and a hot clothes dryer. Or, maybe the careful use of a hot-air gun.
Also, have you ever tried polyester sail cloth, instead of nylon ripstop? Apparently, rust pickers prefer polyester for their sails because it has better UV resistance, and doesn't stretch out, like nylon.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 04:19pm PT
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Dang, Russ and Cosmic, you guys are alight. Well, maybe not you Cosmic. Hah hah
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 04:32pm PT
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You know, down where I live, I get the Tuskar Rock Lighthouse flashing by every night. It reminds me how precarious life can be. it reminds me how precious life can be.
I sit here and 'trade' words with people. People I do not know. And then I see that light, flashing across the Celtic Sea. And I wonder, "Why do I bother with people I do not know?"
I guess because, I like people.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 17, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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He just has sewn up his re-election
Lol ......
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
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Meanwhile America just got a little better... for foreign influenceTrump administration will allow ‘dark money’ political donors to hide their identities
LUKE BARNES
10 hours ago
U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin announced this week that the Treasury Department would allow 'dark money' political donors to hide their identities when giving to politically active nonprofits. (Photo credit: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)
U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin announced this week that the Treasury Department would allow 'dark money' political donors to hide their identities when giving to politically active nonprofits. (Photo credit: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)
The U.S. Treasury Department announced Monday that it would no longer require politically active nonprofit groups to disclose their donors to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), a move heralded by conservatives as a major win for “free speech.”
Under the new rules, tax-exempt organizations like the National Rifle Association will no longer need to file “personally-identifiable information” in their end-of-year returns. Other groups which would be let off the hook from disclosure include politically active nonprofits, which conservative donor Robert Mercer previously used to help finance Donald Trump’s election campaign.
“Americans shouldn’t be required to send the IRS information that it doesn’t need to effectively enforce our tax laws, and the IRS simply does not need tax returns with donor names and addresses to do its job in this area,” Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin said in a statement. “The IRS’s new policy for certain tax-exempt organizations will make our tax system simpler and less susceptible to abuse.”
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 17, 2018 - 05:08pm PT
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 17, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
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NBC news was not kind to Trump tonight, although they are just reporting the facts & not calling for his resignation or impeachment.
They also reported that some Fox News folks also were not being good Trumpian touts & some had actually condemned his Helsinki debacle.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 17, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
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Jody...Any pictures of White Mt. summit or did ewe loiter around the pen after the researchers clocked out...?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 17, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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Don't let Pud see that...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:03pm PT
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It all comes down to what the meaning of "wouldn't" is?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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A just out, Reuters/Issos poll has these figures after Trump's Helsinki meltdown.
More than half of Americans disapprove of the way U.S. President Donald Trump is handling relations with Russia, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted after his controversial summit and joint news conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
However, Trump’s performance at the Helsinki summit, where Trump refused to blame the Russian leader for meddling in the 2016 U.S. election and cast doubt on the findings of U.S. intelligence agencies, did not seem to have an impact on his overall approval rating.
Forty-two percent of registered voters said they approved of Trump’s performance in office in the latest opinion poll, compared with a daily average of between 40 and 44 percent so far in July.
The poll found that 55 percent of registered voters disapproved while 37 percent approved of his handling of relations with Russia.
Among Republicans, 71 percent approved of his handling of Russia compared to 14 percent of Democrats.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-voters/majority-of-americans-think-trump-mishandling-russia-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1K72T1
As usual, Trump keeps around 40% - 44% approval ratings, no matter what he does, proving to me that around 40% of the American public will support anyone who claims to be a Republican, or who, promotes racism, Bullying, intolerance, an anti-abortion stance, & general hatred for foreigners, &/or liberals.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
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I heard a story about a lazy Billy-Bob.
How lazy was he?
He was so lazy, he bought a sheep that was already pregnant.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
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Tax returns coming to the fore again.
And Mueller has them.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
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Two morons echoing each other's (lack of) thoughts
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 17, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
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The morons in question in this case are you and atg dummy
Neither trump nor Putin are morons, just scumbags
Btw Russia is a weak country not a powerful one
Check out Russia's economy
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 17, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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Sorry Paddy... I can't keep up with your back editing and changing entire paragraphs and adding things.
A bit of exaggeration there Russ. I do back edit, for clarity and perhaps brevity, for typos, but entire paragraphs? I am not too sure about that one, but I'll take your word for it.
Outside of wine-stained writing, which both you and I have pointed out, I try to present a "valid" point of view., for better lack of terms.
It is past 4 in the morning, outside of my idiotic episodes, I try to present a clear and rational POV of how the world is unfolding. I could do a better job if I put my mind to it, but this is the Taco Stand, I have fun posting, sometimes too seriously, sometimes not so.
I just enjoy the company. Cheap thrills.
And I like the fact that I can go in and change what I have written. If you cannot keep up with a 'fluid' conversation, well don't read what I have to write.
I am going to dig up some of my editorials from Irish Communications, a monthly magazine (now defunct) I launched in November 1998. My first one was how the internet is full of questionable websites for children, but later ones also addressed the issue of miscommunications, discommunications and outright fabrications. Falsehoods.
Fast forward 20 years. And the situation is even more dire. Social media. How social is it? The amount of BS out there is outstanding. I cringe at some of the stuff I read. Is that really the shape of the world as we see it?
Food for thought.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
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“My people came to me,” he said Monday in Helsinki, Finland. “They said they think it’s Russia. I have President Putin; he just said it’s not Russia. I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be.” Mr. Trump had just returned from Finland, where he sided against his own intelligence agencies’ conclusions about Russian interference in the 2016 election during a meeting with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia. “I have President Putin; he just said it’s not Russia,” Mr. Trump had said on Monday. “I don’t see any reason why it would be.”
And by that, Mr. Trump said on Tuesday, more than 24 hours later, he meant the exact opposite. “The sentence should have been, "I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia,” Mr. Trump said. “Sort of a double negative.” The exact opposite and "Sort of a double negative"????? So which is it? Words f*#king MATTER!!!!! So anyone can just totally reverse what they said by pleading bullsh#t? Then nothing actually means anything and there are no consequences? I guess this is the Trumpian method; goddess save America, as the oath of office seems to be totally malleable too. We're heading down the rabbit hole (thanks, Gracie).
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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Trump is functionally illiterate, so I guess it is possible he couldn't even put a simple statement together.
The more likely explanation is that he is trying to play both sides, because Putin can crater him any time he wants. If he could hack the DNC, he has plenty of dirt on little Donnie. The sad thing is that his supporters are still trying to defend a traitor to the country they claim to love.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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Water board the f*#ker and make him tell the truth...with a shower cap of course...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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Are you worried that electronic voting could be vulnerable to hacking?
I saw a documentary about voting software, wherein the "whistleblower" showed that the voting software could be easily subverted.
The software screens shown were for a Visual Basic GUI programs that tabulated voter results.
O'Really.
The source code shown on the documentary was 100% Visual Basic.
Nothing to hack, here.
Stupendous stupidity is defined as being:
Serenely supposing secrecy and security is seen as an inherently safe situation, and silicon servers, somehow, are not at risk from subversive sordidians seeking scurrilous subversion, and supposing that nobody seeks to subvert the security of a Stable State, and nobody is seeking to specifically spew subliminal statements intend to skew scandalous stories, as being sagacious, in a situational scam, 'suant to stealing your sandwich.
Noam Sane?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
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Remember the good old days? When Obama was given hell because his flag lapel pin was crooked
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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Trump-Putin Helsinki Summit Trump just released another spelling correction Putin-Trump Helsinki Submit
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
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Oh the irony...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 17, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
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Ironic for sure...Hell is stinky.. Maybe Pooten will give Donald a respirator and tray of ice...?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 10:50pm PT
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You wanna live through this?
You should learn how to say no.
They get what they want, but they never want it again.
They get what they want, but they never want it again.
Go on, and take everything. Take everything. I want you to go on, take everything, take everything I want you to.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Just saying.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 17, 2018 - 11:05pm PT
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What a f*#king dumb ass.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2018 - 11:54pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And, he's off to the fabled land of Troy oz.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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Best president eva.
Locker up, locker up hard.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:59am PT
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Interesting NY Times column about how the Christian Right and the Russian government have been finding common cause for a few years now. Many on the Christian right support Russia’s anti-lgbtq agenda, and view Russia as a bulwark against Islam. And of course, they are also quite comfortable with Russia’s authoritarianism.
Shortly after the Russian takeover of Crimea, I remember bluering voicing his support of the invasion and of Russia in general. It was a new idea for me at the time but apparently one that has been present in right wing circles for some time.
https://tinyurl.com/yd8zcpx7
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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So he screwed up a word, and then corrected it hours later knowing he'd catch even more hysteria.
Turn the teevee's off. Stream the actual raw footage of whatever speeches and announcements you'd like to watch from the originator's mouths. The hysteria is driven by those who immediately jump to the 24x7x365 MSM Cliff Notes, which are largely lies. Make your own assessments instead.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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Damn you are gullible.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:32am PT
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You believe every f*#king word that comes out of this Ass Clown's mouth like f*#king sheep.
"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor."
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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ul 18, 2018 - 07:59am PT
Interesting NY Times column about how the Christian Right and the Russian government have been finding common cause for a few years now. Many on the Christian right support Russia’s anti-lgbtq agenda, and view Russia as a bulwark against Islam. And of course, they are also quite comfortable with Russia’s authoritarianism.
Shortly after the Russian takeover of Crimea, I remember bluering voicing his support of the invasion and of Russia in general. It was a new idea for me at the time but apparently one that has been present in right wing circles for some time.
https://tinyurl.com/yd8zcpx7
As a Christian I find the US religious/political groups more repelling than anything but extrme Islamic groups. Using religion as a weapon or for human control is so wrong, just like mixing religion and politics. Something ingrained in US republican politics. I cringe when Trump twists religion into his ethos etc. It should be a personal thing. Commercialized religion is no longer Christianity to me. Government should exist to protect freedom of personal worship, not take a side or relate with one group or another. I dislike the us flag in us churches and tying god or God into your government, pledges of allegiance or on your money. Which is anther reason i like Canada! The government protects me like Im a human, just like everyone else.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:36am PT
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Interesting NY Times column about how the Christian Right and the Russian government have been finding common cause for a few years now. Many on the Christian right support Russia’s anti-lgbtq agenda, and view Russia as a bulwark against Islam. And of course, they are also quite comfortable with Russia’s authoritarianism.
Shortly after the Russian takeover of Crimea, I remember bluering voicing his support of the invasion and of Russia in general. It was a new idea for me at the time but apparently one that has been present in right wing circles for some time.
remember the days when republicans thought russians, i.e. commies were bad?
what would ronnie ray gun say?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:38am PT
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False equivalence,normalization,don’t worry he will get re-elected no problem.
He is so in control,lol.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 18, 2018 - 09:00am PT
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I spoke directly to the Emperor, and he says there is no deathstar. He's a very strong leader. Very strong. And a good man.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
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I still marvel that a law foisted on us by a Kenyan not legally qualified to be president is not regarded as something 1000× worse than any alleged crime of DJT.
Of course you buy into trump’s racist birther bullsh#t.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 18, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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Juan would weep.
It's all about results. It's not like Batten was super subtle!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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I fixed Xcon's photo of the white supremacist cops in Alabama.
Everything is not A-OK down there.
Here is Stephen Miller, Trump's top White House advisor, throwing down his white supremacist hand sign at a press conference. The other photos show how the hand sign is intended to represent W-P, for White Power.
Trump says that he thinks it should have been obvious to his audience that when he said there was no Russian meddling, he really meant that there was Russian meddling.
And, therefore, it should be obvious to his audience that when Trump says that there was no collusion, he really means that there was collusion.
Anything Trump says has to be inverted before it makes any sense within the reality recognized by 7.2 billion people.
Trump lives in his own fantasy reality, which has little or no correspondence to the reality of the 7.2 billion.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 18, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
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I still marvel that a law foisted on us by a Kenyan not legally qualified to be president is not regarded as something 1000× worse than any alleged crime of DJT
just saw this, wow
Ladies and Gentlemen, we got us a BIRTHER RACIST !
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nafod
Boulder climber
State college
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
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a law foisted on us by a Kenyan
Congress writes laws
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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Anyone else noted that the markets have been creeping upwards nicely these past few days?
Look, Trump is either an idiot or more-or-less pretends to be one for who knows what purpose, but none of it matters one rat's ass as long as the markets keep going up, it's as simple as that.
I'd prefer a more orthodox president I suppose, but I'd rather have a whack job and the economy buzzing along that a rational, predictable socialist who tanks the economy.
Sad that seems to be our choice these days.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
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Look, trump is either an idiot or more-or- less pretends to be one for who knows what purpose, but none of it matters one rat's ass as long as the markets keep going up, it's as simple as that.
One soul for sale...
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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Nope, Snopes says this is only partially true. Trump does donate his salery and Melania has others helping her.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
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Anyone else noted that the markets have been creeping upwards nicely these past few days?
Look, Trump is either an idiot or more-or-less pretends to be one for who knows what purpose, but none of it matters one rat's ass as long as the markets keep going up, it's as simple as that.
What a morally hollow thing to say.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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ha, pretty funny couchmaster
Trump was worth according to him, 10 billion dollars, he hardly needs the Pres salary
was every other President is US history a "taker" for receiving their salary?
isn't it odd that Trump supporters consider the Obama Presidency the Gold Standard
because they always, always pick that Presidency to compare Trump's too?
the stock market, give me a break
the stock market was up 233% during President Obamas' terms, the most of any President in US History, again - the gold standard, give me a break
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:55pm PT
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Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's military parade in DC is likely to cost nearly as much as the now canceled military exercise with South Korea that Trump called "tremendously expensive" and said cost "a fortune," three US defense officials tell CNN.
The parade, which is now scheduled to take place on November 10, is currently estimated to cost approximately $12 million, the officials said.
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nafod
Boulder climber
State college
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Jul 18, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
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Trump is making it up in emoluments
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 18, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Norton, sorry to say it looks like you've been the victim of fake news re: Obama stock market returns.
It was good under Obama, but no where near as good as you wrote, and nowhere near the record (which seems to be Slick Willie, at least in modern times, I don't know about farther back). And Obama had the good luck to start at a historic downturn, so when you look at that way, his returns weren't so great.
And focusing on the markets / economy is not "morally hollow"--it's focusing on what really matters in people's lives, not silly political talking points like whether Trump is kissing Putin's ass or whatnot. That stuff may be good fun, but remember who said "It's the economy, stupid"--it was the Clintonites as I recall.
Here are the numbers I see, from http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jan/08/how-trump-obama-compare-stock-market/
President
Length of term
Closing Dow Jones Industrial Average
Percentage increase in the Dow Jones Industrial Average
Barack Obama
8 years
19,827
+ 149 percent
George W. Bush
8 years
7,949
25 percent
Bill Clinton
8 years
10,578
+ 227 percent
George H.W. Bush
4 years
3,242
+ 45 percent
Ronald Reagan
8 years
2,235
+ 135 percent
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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The ACA was the biggest fraud in modern history.
If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor
The ACA was certainly not without its flaws. I generally avoid posting on these sorts of threads, but I am compelled for personal reasons to jump in here for a second.
I know people who did not qualify for the ACA subsidies whose insurance rates went up considerably after the ACA passed. I don't know anyone personally who was unable to keep their doctor as a result of the ACA, although I know there are plenty of examples. Many of the people I knew who had rates go up, had that happen because their old plan was catastrophic coverage which was essentially junk coverage, and now, while they do have to pay more, they have insurance that is much more adequate.
I also know a lot of people who couldn't afford insurance, and/or were ineligible for it entirely, prior to the ACA, due to incredibly high rates and also pre-existing condition exclusions. I'm one of the former, and in a pre-ACA world, I would today be one of the latter. From 2003 to 2013 I could not afford any insurance plans in the state of Alaska, or at least, the plans were not only extremely pricey, but also included impossibly high deductibles. For example. In 2010, the cheapest plan I could find on the individual market (I don't get benefits from my job) was $1,300 a month for a plan with a $10,000 deductible and a $14,000 out of pocket limit. Inside the plan there were multiple exclusions, including most sports injuries! So if I had a serious illness or incident, premiums plus deductible would have me spending almost $26,000 before I'd see any benefit- and that's if they even approved coverage! That's almost 70% of my income. I decided to take my chances without insurance, save money the best I could, and have a bunch of high limit credit cards on hand. That's not insurance.
The ACA came along in 2013 and I just barely qualified (almost made too much money) for the premium tax credit. As such, my wife and I pay $150/month for a plan with a $5,250 individual deductible and a $6,500 individual out of pocket limit. Not exactly great, but far better than before. Without the tax credit, my plan is $1,000 a month per person! Which is ridiculous and for people who make just more than me, unaffordable. It's clear that the ACA helps some and hurts others, and it does so because it did nothing to bring down costs of healthcare itself.
Three years later I was diagnosed with cancer and since 2016 I've accrued almost $600,000 in medical bills for two major surgeries and radiation therapy. Through a lot of timing and especially luck I didn't miss any work. But I'm not bankrupt or even close, because I can afford the $6,500 a year, even though it is less than convenient.
Further, on the subject of "keeping your doctor"- I not only can GET a doctor now, but under my "Bronze" plan I have been able to choose exactly who I wanted and needed in order to deal with my extremely rare cancer, I've been treated not only in Alaska, but at specialty clinics at University of Washington, University of Utah, and University of Michigan.
I truly sympathize with people who have been harmed by the ACA, and I'd like to see the ACA reformed to something that benefits everyone, and at this point, I have an incentive to not make much more money than I do, lest I lose the tax credit and increase my premium tenfold. But I am weary of hearing the narrative about the ACA spun as though everyone lost their doctors and nobody benefited from it. It's simply not true. My story is anecdotal to be sure, but all I can say is that if my cancer had shown up a few years earlier, or if the ACA hadn't been enacted, I'd surely be bankrupt today, and possibly not alive. I currently need CT scans every 3 months for many years ahead. Each one is $5000. I'm expecting to retain my insurance in 2019, but beyond that, I am not hopeful at this point, as President Trump's administration is working hard to bring back pre-existing condition exclusions and encourage insurers to leave the ACA marketplace. My future is even more uncertain, in many ways now.
On another note, the above story seems to really anger Trump supporters and opponents of the ACA. Awhile back I was discussing the ACA with someone who told me "I hope your cancer comes back and kills you soon so you can stop leeching off my tax dollars". They went on to explain that if wasn't so irresponsible, I would have half a million dollars saved up to pay for emergency medical expenses rather than relying on insurance. This guy? He had cadillac insurance through his wife's corporate job. I'm the devil, however, for using the ACA.
With that level of discourse in the country, where do you go now?
I still marvel that a law foisted on us by a Kenyan not legally qualified to be president is not regarded as something 1000× worse than any alleged crime of DJT.
And sorry, but this ^ is just patently offensive to me.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
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Of course it’s morally hollow, blah.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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And Obama had the good luck to start at a historic downturn, so when you look at that way, his returns weren't so great.
Translation - Obama inherited an economy destroyed by a Republican and turned it around. Trump had the good luck to start at a historic rise in the markets.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
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Damn Mark... sorry about the cancer...that just sucks.
The basic problem isn't how to pay for 600k in treatments which is patently absurd. The problem is the illusion of free money that creates a 600k bill from 30k of work. The Aca just props up a system that needs to be torn down to the foundation and built again. Insurance mathematically should be there for truly catastrophic events, like most all other insurance types. Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people.
I'm glad you were able to at least benefit from it no matter how misguided it was.
Oh, and f#&k cancer!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
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Assuming the future follows past patterns, therefore, stock-market bulls shouldn’t be basing their bullishness on current economic activity. This advice becomes even more compelling when we realize that we typically don’t know how the economy is performing in real time, but rather only well after the fact.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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none of it matters one rat's ass as long as the markets keep going up, it's as simple as that.
That is an absurd statement, but not at all surprising, considering that the ostensible leader of our nation says things like that all the time. And, some members of the GOP apparently agree with him.
Some Trump supporters want to end all regulations, such as those that prohibit dumping toxic waste into public waterways. A company, like Georgia Pacific, would increase its profits if it could just dump its waste into rivers, which would cause its stock price to rise. The people seeking deregulation believe that the only thing that matters is the stock market.
If money is the only thing that matters, why has the United States not invaded South Africa, and seized the diamond and gold mines there? Why has the United States not invaded Canada and Mexico, and enslaved the people there to produce goods to be sold to Americans?
Why hasn't the United States seized Iraq's oil fields as "reimbursement" (Trump's terminology)?
I am going to go in there, and I am going to take the oil.
Donald Trump campaign statement
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis
The state of the stock market is not the only thing that matters in America, and it is not even a substantially important matter for most people. For the majority of Americans, stock market prices have no effect on their lives, whatsoever. A rising stock market is primarily the focus of a small percentage of Americans, such as the 1% wealthiest.
Increasing profits and driving up the price of stocks, such as Apple, has been the primary motive for moving manufacturing operations overseas. No company is moving their factories to China because it's easier to do business there. It's a pain in the ass to have things made in China. Companies do it because it causes the price of their stock to go up.
For a corporation, the only thing that matters is the price of their stock. A corporation behaves identically to a psychopathic person, hitting every single characteristic that psychologists use to define psychopathy.
MEGA = Make Excess Great Again
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
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Translation - Obama inherited an economy destroyed by a Republican and turned it around. Trump had the good luck to start at a historic rise in the markets.
correct, because the Republican mantra is that markets should be free, free like puppies
and so the Republican Bush Administration ignored the rise in sub prime mortgage lending and did nothing at all to tighten underwriting
and so the Republican Bush Administration did nothing to regulate the toxic growth of CDO's and Derivatives
both of the above directly leading to the worst Recession since the Great Depression
tens of millions of Americans lost their jobs and millions lost their homes
and the stock market to collapse from over 14,000 to 7000 destroying trillions of dollars in Americans life savings
yeah, vote Republican, they sure know how to handle the economy...LOL
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
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The White House Press Office is denying statements Trump has been recorded and filmed making. This policy follows Trump in denying his own statements.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/us/politics/trump-putin-higher-intelligence.html
The next step for Trump is to order the Army Corps of Engineers to construct a National Memory Hole for the wholesale destruction of documents, evidence, facts, and reality.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 18, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
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When the crash comes and it will ,it will definitely be Obama’s fault.
Maybe even Bernie’s.
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 18, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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The basic problem isn't how to pay for 600k in treatments which is patently absurd. The problem is the illusion of free money that creates a 600k bill from 30k of work. The Aca just props up a system that needs to be torn down to the foundation and built again. Insurance mathematically should be there for truly catastrophic events, like most all other insurance types. Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people
Thanks, Fear.
^^I agree, although we are so far from this ever happening I'm not holding my breath!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 18, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
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Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people
As they are in every other first-world country.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:06pm PT
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Total witch hunt?
Something to naturally cool and sooth the "so-called" moron.
Thank you very much everybody.
The president is working very hard to make sure that the Russians do not meddle (medal?) in any more elections, except in Kenya or Monte_Nigra,
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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You believe every f*#king word that comes out of this Ass Clown's mouth like f*#king sheep.
"In response to Russia, the eighties called and they want their foreign policy back."
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
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When the crash comes and it will ,it will definitely be Obama’s fault.
No, it will NOT be Obama's fault, nor Putin's, nor Trumps, nor any Govt entity.
It will solely be your fault because you Americans are just plain st00pid ignorant idiots .....
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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I'd prefer a more orthodox president I suppose, but I'd rather have a whack job and the economy buzzing along that a rational, predictable socialist who tanks the economy.
In my working lifetime, starting with the recession of 1974, economic downturns follow Republican administrations like autumn follows summer.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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Well you can read the article discussing the events of the 22 recessions since 1900 and get most of the facts.
But you didn't give a citation downtownBrown?
Look it up stupid and, may I say, LAZY Americans
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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It could be worse...Hillary
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
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fear:
The basic problem isn't how to pay for 600k in treatments which is patently absurd. The problem is the illusion of free money that creates a 600k bill from 30k of work. The Aca just props up a system that needs to be torn down to the foundation and built again. Progressive propagandists should be more accurate with numbers.
"creates a 600k bill from 30k of work" phrase is just absurd.
Yes, American healthcare system is expensive, but it's not that expensive.
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States US healthcare expenses as a percent of GDP are about 50% higher than Canadian expenses (15% vs. 10%).
Yes, big pharma (if we exclude pharmaceutical companies that went bankrupt) is profitable, but not that absurd profitable as progressive propagandists want you to believe. According to https://www.bbc.com/news/business-28212223 profitability of big pharmaceutical companies is between 10% and 43%.
I assume that big hospitals have similar profitability.
So even if we implement cost control for big pharma and big hospitals (similar to how utilities are regulated) we can probably bring this $600K bill down to $400K.
Cancer research, cancer drugs and cancer surgeries are expensive.
An idea that the above treatment could have been had for $30K in a "fair" society is just absurd.
BTW, healthcare insurance companies are not that greedy as compared to big pharma and big hospitals. According to https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-health-insurance/2017/06/30/0136f34e-5cd2-11e7-a9f6-7c3296387341_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.70c4d811d74e "A 2010 Congressional Research Service study showed that among large, publicly traded health insurers, profits averaged 3.1 percent of revenue."
fear:
Insurance mathematically should be there for truly catastrophic events, like most all other insurance types. Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people. Yes, even in the US such catastrophic cases can be covered by federal mandatory insurance.
At the same time "Basic and common procedures" can be covered by out of pocket payments or through private insurance.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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trailridge127 ^^^ right on schedule
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 18, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
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Yuri-profitability of big pharmaceutical companies is between 10% and 43% ooh a number, he must be bonafide- that range could be 100 million or almost half a billion.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 18, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
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anybody still on board with the treasonous lying buffoon at this point is nothing more than a troll and should not be taken seriously.
But they may still be serious in their viewpoints, and still able to vote.
Doesn’t it make sense to try to understand their motivation and explore what is the problem that can be solved a different way?
Emotions and reason are very different things, but I’ve been happy with the results in my own life of using my intellect, expanded by making efforts to understand emotional systems, to help make changes on the emotional front and enable different outcomes than a stubborn intellect alone trying to ignore emotions.
I can’t argue for supporting Trump at all, but I am strongly supportive of remaining engaged with people who for whatever reason or emotion support Trump.
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john hansen
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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Trump seemed to keep his arm's crossed a lot during his cabinet meeting today,
a very defensive posture, trying to walk back the last few days.
Looked like he was wearing a straight jacket.
I have been on the Topo since 2006 and recognize many of the names here.
When some one like Power crux starts to post I wonder if it is a bot, and there are a few more new posters ..AGT?
Stirring the pot.
I cannot believe sources I cant verify.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 18, 2018 - 10:09pm PT
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From the New York Times:
WASHINGTON — Two weeks before his inauguration, Donald J. Trump was shown highly classified intelligence indicating that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia had personally ordered complex cyberattacks to sway the 2016 American election.
The evidence included texts and emails from Russian military officers and information gleaned from a top-secret source close to Mr. Putin, who had described to the C.I.A. how the Kremlin decided to execute its campaign of hacking and disinformation.
Mr. Trump sounded grudgingly convinced, according to several people who attended the intelligence briefing. But ever since, Mr. Trump has tried to cloud the very clear findings that he received on Jan. 6, 2017, which his own intelligence leaders have unanimously endorsed.
The shifting narrative underscores the degree to which Mr. Trump regularly picks and chooses intelligence to suit his political purposes. That has never been more clear than this week.
Full article here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Edited to add: Just askin' WBraun, but why is it always "You Americans"? Don't you have any skin in the game? Maybe you should just leave.
Edited (again) to add: Dingus, you're right re WBraun. My comment above was too harsh. I didn't remove it, but do retract it.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:27am PT
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Trump wants a do-over with Putin.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:42am PT
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The majority here would do well in Father Charles Coughlin's National Union for Social Justice. So far, you're just as successful.
Trump will continue to lead through 2024 and there ain't a lot you can do about it. Clearer heads prevail.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:45am PT
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Enjoy while you can, Pud. You will take a beating in the midterms, then the fatal blow 2 years later. Clearer heads prevail.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:49am PT
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True that,you have it all locked up.
Remember this ,he will not be running against HRC.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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So, when are you all going to start jumping on the Maria Butina story?
I have a question - What objective would be gained by having her infiltrate the NRA? What's the purpose behind that?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:54am PT
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Anyone want to put their money where their mouth is?
I will put up my money to say that Donald Trump does not win the Presidential election in 2020.
Anyone willing to bet that he does, how about you PUD, or Blah Blah, or Cosmc, etc?
You have to be feeling really good about all the wonderful things Donald has been doing for America, right? How loved and respected he is! How any Democrat would lose to his greatness !
How about $5000?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 19, 2018 - 10:06am PT
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What objective would be gained by having her infiltrate the NRA? What's the purpose behind that?
Access Access Access, buying access. the very thing the Trumpkins campaigned against.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 19, 2018 - 11:00am PT
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.....Dark Money......
Love it... you guys are great entertainment...
Go outside. It's nice out.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
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Nice Jody,do you think that would or wouldn’t be one of your best pictures?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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Trump wants a do-over with Putin.
President Mulligan is about three levels lower than a President Gilligan.
Trump and Putin are on the same page. They both want to engage in the Mueller investigation into their conspiracy to defraud the United States. In other words, the two prime suspects in a criminal investigation want to assist with investigating themselves.
Trump says he will testify, but only if all of Mueller's evidence is given to his attorneys.
Putin says he will make his 12 indicted KGB/FSB agents available to Mueller, if the U.S. will extradite a former ambassador to Russia, so that the KGB/FSB can accuse him of fraud and corruption. Trump said that Putin's absurd gambit was "an incredible offer".
in·cred·i·ble
adjective: incredible
1.
impossible to believe.
synonyms: dubious, ludicrous
Despite Trump's best efforts, he managed to make a truthful statement that time. Putin's offer is dubious and ludicrous.
Trump doesn't know that "incredible" means "not credible". He thinks it means "wonderful", or "great".
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
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Are you sure you wouldn’t.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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Which on is an American? Patriot? Or does everyone hate and name call each other?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:48pm PT
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Anyone want to put their money where their mouth is?
I will put up my money to say that Donald Trump does not win the Presidential election in 2020.
Anyone willing to bet that he does, how about you PUD, or Blah Blah, or Cosmc, etc?
You have to be feeling really good about all the wonderful things Donald has been doing for America, right? How loved and respected he is! How any Democrat would lose to his greatness !
How about $5000?
Norton weren't you trying to find people to bet on the last election? You were so, so sure Trump would lose, lol!
I suppose some people never learn (I can understand that, we all have our blind spots).
Anyway, why don't you tell us what Democrat you think will win and maybe we bet on that? Maybe you like Biden (that would be one of the all time great elections for humor value at least--two elderly windbags talking about how they would beat each other in a fistfight).
(You might think Biden would have a leg up in a fistfight as Biden was a college football player, right? Wrong, he lied is ass off about playing college football, pretty much like everything else in his life. Guy makes Trump seem eligible for some sort of a most truthful politician award. I think Trump would take Biden in a fight--he's larger, younger, and has a far more distinguished athletic pedigree.)
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:52pm PT
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I would never trust a Libtard to pay off a bet.
If there were to be some such bet, both bettors could deposit the funds into a financial instrument that was accessible only by an intermediary party of high moral standing(well, not so high that they'd be unwilling to get involved with such shenanigans). Someone like Micronut. Or Lynne Lightfuss.
That would take the lack of trust out of the equation, for one thing. But I don't believe Cosmic's comment has anything to do with trust or mistrust, but his own growing awareness that what people have been saying about Trump is, unfortunately, true.
As for myself - I am willing to bet that DT himself is on the list of people duped by Mariia Butina, and that at some point before this is all over, it comes out as some kind of evidence or testimony related to the collusion investigation. My bet would have to be a lot smaller than 5K though.
edit: I didn't mean to imply the two mentioned did NOT have high moral standards!!! I just meant that they might not see facilitating a wager as something immoral. They may very well feel that way. I just used them as an example of someone most everyone here would agree would not take the cash, and then abscond with the funds, fall off the face of Supertopo, and then deny that the new name they were using was not them.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But, it always seems that stories like these don't involve libtards. They always involve Trumplicans:
Oklahoma family made teenager live in a barn with animals, living off twigs and grass. Four relatives were arrested after Child Protective Services found the starving teenager, 80 pounds, only a few days away from death.
https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/nation-world/national/article215162775.html#storylink=latest_side
Tom you are sick in the head if you think the criminals in that story are somehow representative of "Trumplicans" (of which I am not one), you really should get help.
There is nothing in that story about Trump--are you making an assumption they support Trump just because they're rural?
If so, do you make the same assumption about everyone in the inner city supporting Obama? And do you think we'd have a hard time finding plenty of equally sick stories committed by residents of the inner cities?
If there were to be some such bet, both bettors could deposit the funds into a financial instrument that was accessible only by an intermediary party of high moral standing(well, not so high that they'd be unwilling to get involved with such shenanigans). Someone like Micronut. Or Lynne Lightfuss.
That would take the lack of trust out of the equation, for one thing. But I don't believe Cosmic's comment has anything to do with trust or mistrust, but his own growing awareness that what people have been saying about Trump is, unfortunately, true.
As for myself - I am willing to bet that DT himself is on the list of people duped by Mariia Butina, and that at some point before this is all over, it comes out as some kind of evidence or testimony related to the collusion investigation. My bet would have to be a lot smaller than 5K though.
If you mean escrow, just say escrow. You don't need to give a long winded ramble about it.
The Butina story seems like a bunch of BS to me--she seems like a nice young lady who somehow got caught up a technical violation of laws (which probably shouldn't even exist and seem like they may be unconstitutional).
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
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LOLOL
I would never trust a Libtard to pay off a bet.
Nobody was willing to put up money to bet me in last election
that's ok, I made money on Intrade and BetFair
but to the upcoming 2020 election !
I will put $5000 in an account to be held in the reputable name of someone on this forum we both agree to trust to disperse the funds after the election
now, chicken littles, put up or shut up, who will match it?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 19, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
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Nobody was willing to put up money to bet me in last election
that's ok, I made money on Intrade and BetFair
but to the upcoming 2020 election !
I will put $5000 in an account to be held in the reputable name of someone on this forum we both agree to trust to disperse the funds after the election
Norton and Happie--the word is escrow, learn it please.
And Norton, you seem to be losing it, remember you desperately were trying to bet against Trump last election--please do tell how you made money betting against Trump?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 19, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
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Blahblah - Thank you for advising on the technical word.
However, you didn't have to be a jerk about it.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 19, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
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Trump is a political genius and perhaps the greatest leader we have had in two hundred years.
Ok, I'll assume that is just a troll, because nobody could be that fuking stoopid. That statement has gotten me to wonder, however, what are the qualities that make a president great. I know that the bar has been lowered, but it seems that not being Hillary is enough for many stoopid Americans these days.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 19, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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.....if the U.S. will extradite a former ambassador to Russia ..... Man, if I were Michael McFaul, the man in question, I'd sure as hell say nope, ain't goin'. How could he be forced to travel to Russia and cooperate with the KGB? Isn't there something called habeas corpus? Or can the President just order citizens to do whatever he wants? What say you, Republican law and order people? Are you offended by the suggestion? Strange times and they will probably get stranger.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 02:49pm PT
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Oklahoma, especially rural Oklahoma, voted strongly for Trump. Statistically speaking, the four people arrested for making their teenager live in a barn are Trump supporters. Also, nobody who voted for Hillary would behave that way. It's too far to the right, politically and religiously. Only self-righteous zealots treat other people like animals.
Libtards, by definition, care about other people. That's why Trumplicans hate them so much: they're not just in it for themselves, which makes those who are look like selfish pigs by comparison.
Or can the President just order citizens to do whatever he wants?
The United States does not have an extradition treaty with Russia. Russia has said that it will not extradite its citizens to be prosecuted in foreign countries.
Trump could very well seek to rendition the ambassador to Russia, as a present for Putin. He wouldn't have any legal standing to do that, but Trump consistently ignores and violates laws that most people would take as basic and necessary for society.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jul 19, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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trump can't touch the antoinnette take back: "wait! ... DON'T let them eat cake"
d. korn misqoute
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 19, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Oklahoma, especially rural Oklahoma, voted strongly for Trump. Statistically speaking, the four people arrested for making their teenager live in a barn are Trump supporters. Also, nobody who voted for Hillary would behave that way. It's too far to the right, politically and religiously, to treat other people like animals.
Libtards, by definition, care about other people.
Or can the President just order citizens to do whatever he wants?
The United States does not have an extradition treaty with Russia. Russia has said that it will not extradite its citizens to be prosecuted in foreign countries.
Trump could very well seek to rendition the ambassador to Russia, as a present for Putin. He wouldn't have any legal standing to to that, but Trump consistently ignores and violates laws that most people would take as basic and necessary for society.
So you have a statistical argument that the criminals were Trump supporters, but you apparently reject the corollary that inner city residents are Hillary supporters, or that any inner city resident would commit a similar crime.
Seems like your libtard "logic" is working perfectly.
As to how we can get the ambassador to Russia--how about we just tell Russian agents that we won't do anything at all to stop them from abducting the ambassador and transporting him to Russia?
We know from Obama's reign that it's perfectly fine for the president to just stop enforcing laws when it fits his whim, so I guess Trump can do that too?
Blahblah - Thank you for advising on the technical word.
However, you didn't have to be a jerk about it.
Sorry I just have a limited amount of libtard patience each day and it got used up early today
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
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but you apparently reject the corollary that inner city residents are Hillary supporters
I never said any such thing.
If asked, I would absolutely agree that, statistically, inner city residents voted for Hillary, even in the Midwest. The voter exit polls and registration records prove that to be the case.
or that any inner city resident would commit a similar crime.
I never said any such thing.
But, I am still waiting for you to show me the news article, wherein inner city residents are arrested for treating their own children like animals, and starving them nearly to death.
Without exception, when I hear about people doing this sort of thing (the last time was about nine months ago, at Lake Perris) the adults in charge are religious zealots, who use the Good Book to justify their psychopathic behavior.
The religious right voted overwhelmingly for Trump, and they still support him, even after the Stormy Daniels scandal, children being and into cages, and Trump's surrendering the United States to Vladimir Putin.
It is impossible to predict, 100% of the time, what a given person will do. But, it is certainly possible to statistically evaluate a like-minded group to obtain a probability of what a person in that group might do.
It's what Cambridge Analytica did.
They stole everybody's Facebook data, and used it to predict that a fabricated story about "Hillary's child sex-slave ring at a D.C. pizza parlor" would be eagerly accepted as the truth by certain uneducated and religiously superstitious people. One guy even showed up at the pizza parlor with his Second Amendment-guaranteed AR-15 assault rifle, and discharged it inside the building while he was "investigating".
Similarly, it is quite accurate to state that most Trumplicans will say that any evidence showing that Trump conspired with Putin to subvert the 2016 election must be "fake evidence" manufactured by the "deep state". Even irrefutable bank records, telephone wiretaps, and intercepted emails will be declared "fake", because that evidence wouldn't fit within Trump's false narrative of "no collusion".
There is no question that Trump colluded with Russia. The only question is to what degree. He colluded with Russia on Monday, in Helsinki.
Trump says he wants Putin to come to Washington for another secret collusion meeting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/us/politics/trump-putin-browder-mcfaul.html
Who will give me odds that Putin and Trump will squeeze into Scott Pruitt's $43,000 Cone of Silence, so that they can scheme in private about how to screw America over?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 19, 2018 - 05:12pm PT
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My offer stands, put up $5000 and bet that Trump will be reelected to a second term
and I will take the other side of that bet and put up my 5K
respected, credible, mutually agreed upon forum member holds the money and give it to the winner in November 2020
time to put up or shut up, "contards"
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 19, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
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West Nile Virus Found In Mosquitoes In Santee
Gawd's wrath on conserviturds?
West Nile Incubation
Once bitten by an infected mosquito, people can begin to show symptoms in as little as two days, but it can take up to 2 weeks, according to the CDC. Only about one out of every five people bitten by a West Nile mosquito actually show symptoms, like a fever, but it is important to know what symptoms to watch for. About one percent of people bitten develop a severe reaction that can lead to West Nile Fever, which has long-lasting symptoms:
Weakness
Depression
Tremors
Fatigue
And other signs of brain damage
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
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The "god" that Republicans worship hates their guts.
The 58,000-resident city of Santee is Republican territory, with nearly 45 percent of voters registered Republican, 28 percent Democrat, about 21 percent independent and the rest another party.
Their "god" is giving Santee West Nile as an appetizer before the main course of Ebola.
A judge in Georgia, a Trump stronghold, has ruled that a woman who was born in Mexico, and became a United States citizen in 2017, is ineligible to run for a seat in the House of Representatives. The judge agreed with the Georgia Secretary of State, Brian Kemp, in denying Maria Palacios a spot on the ballot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/us/georgia-house-citizenship-maria-palacios.html
Brian Kemp is running for Governor of Georgia. He has received The Good Ol' Billy-Bob-Boy Seal of Approval from Donald Trump. Kemp's TV ads show him brandishing a shotgun while promising he will "git in the truck, and round 'em up".
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/us/politics/trump-brian-kemp-georgia.html
In contrast to racist and backwards Georgia, California elected Arnold Schwarzenegger as governor way back in 2003. He was born in Austria, and became a United States citizen in 1983. Californians agreed that he had the right to run for governor, because he was a U.S. citizen.
I am anticipating that Trump will propose that the states that support him exit from the United States. In the same way that Britain voted to leave the European Union, Trump will propose that red states like Florida, Georgia, Texas and Mississsippi vote to leave the United States, in order to form a more perfect Trump Kingdom.
The Trexit move would give Trump a higher overall approval rating, which is all he cares about.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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The republicans have invested an enormous amount of energy over the last 40 years trying to convince their obedient voters that the democratic voters are evil and supportive of the despicable socialist commies ...Having quickly discarded that script , the Republican party now decided supporting putin and the despicable socialist commies isn't so bad as long as it gives the struggling 1% Americans , the ones that own most of the American wealth , a much needed economic boost....
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:21pm PT
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Yes,but,the economy wouldn’t be cranking.
Tomorrow,
I will change that to would.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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The economy is cranking...America is finally great again...Shame that Donald , after all he's done to help himself , might end up in jail...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
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Damn shame.
He probably would still do all right,I mean,The Inmate Apprentice.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
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After the witnessing the tRump sh*t show, I have to wonder how much worse would Putin actually be? Might be an upgrade.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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The economy may be cranking (actually, on Wall Street, they prefer good, clean cocaine) but the numbers are deceptive.
How can the economy be in such good shape, when prosperous cities, like Los Angeles and San Francisco, have so many homeless people?
If the 1% are reaping huge, huge profits, and people at the other end are sleeping on the streets and starving, does that mean that, overall, the economy is booming? If one guy has a million dollars, and nine people have nothing, does that mean that everybody is doing OK, with an average of $100,000 each?
What sort of economic booming do we want? Everything for a few, or a more even distribution?
Without regulation, we will have the former, which is why the rich people are so against regulation.
The "cranking" economy is not "cranking" for most American workers. Even with the big tax cut, and low unemployment, real wages are down, compared to a few years ago. Meanwhile, housing and other living expenses are rising, meaning that standards of living are dropping.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/15/for-the-biggest-group-of-american-workers-wages-arent-just-flat-theyre-falling/
https://www.thenation.com/article/the-real-reason-workers-cant-get-a-raise/
https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-arent-growing-in-america
MEGA = Make Excess Great Again
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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Putin should become POTUS.
Americans are too st00pid and need him.
St00pid American idiots know only one thing.
Being continually brainwashed by their own brainwashed st00pid media and st00pid corrupt intelligent agencies ......
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
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Yeah,man.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
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So, these two bars go into a duck.
.
.
.
.
.
The duck ate two Clif bars before effecting a cliff rescue.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:45pm PT
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Two Irishmen walk out of a bar....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 06:49pm PT
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..... after knocking a few back, and then knocking a few down. Enough for one evening.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
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Norton:
I will put up my money to say that Donald Trump does not win the Presidential election in 2020.
Anyone willing to bet that he does, how about you PUD, or Blah Blah, or Cosmc, etc?
...
How about $5000? I am confused.
AFAIR several months ago all progressive liberals on this forum proclaimed en masse that Trump would be impeached in a few month and would leave his office soon.
Does it mean that they have changed their forecast and that they now believe that Trump will serve until the end of his 1st term?
Personally I believe that Trump will be removed.
It's already second time when he has crossed the party line and spoke against The Party of War (that represents interests of the US Military-Industrial Complex).
Such heinous crime should not be tolerated.
All progressives should unite with conservatives to stop Trump and give war a chance!
Make wars not peace!
All these anti-Russia, anti-Syria, anti-Iran etc. propaganda campaigns are organised on behalf of US Military-Industrial Complex by US States Department and US Party of War to brainwash Americans and make future wars more palatable for them.
Anti-Russia propaganda campaign in the riskiest one because even a small military confrontation can escalate to a full blown nuclear exchange where millions of people (Russians and Americans) can die.
What is your understanding of the end game of this campaign?
Initially I was not sure about it, but recently more people started talking about nuclear war as its logical conclusion.
How much money are you willing to bet that such war would not happen?
Do you accept the risk that lives of your family, friends and other people can be lost in such war?
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 19, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jul 19, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
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ha, i'll bite, Jim, I'm a mean mudderfuder and I know that we are seeing the lost democracy
puked out onto the rug. It stinks, but the loss was years ago, what we have here is just the regurgitation of what "Dubu-U" & Cheney, Rumsfeld-drunk Wineberger and those kleptocrates stole.. before Barry, that commie loving member of the Muzlim brotherhood, Kenyan, who stole the election, from who was it again the last time ? the 1st?
so please some of us lean left while standing solidly in the bossom of this nazi right wing.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
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AFAIR several months ago all progressive liberals on this forum proclaimed en masse that Trump would be impeached in a few month and would leave his office soon.
AFAEER, that is not correct, at all.
Not all people, of any group, proclaimed that it would only take a few months for Mueller to conclude his investigation, for Trump to be impeached, or that he would leave office soon.
The Watergate investigation took over two years before Noxin The Toxin resigned in disgrace. The Whitewater investigation lasted six years, with no definitive result. The New York Attorney General investigated for over two years before bringing a civil lawsuit against Trump and The Three Stooges to shut down their fraudulent Trump Foundation sham-charity.
Meuller has already indicted three dozen people, obtained confessions from about six, and one person is already in Federal prison.
Mueller has served up the appetizer, the soup, and the salad, but you are still falsely claiming that dinner is not being served. It's already happening. We're just waiting for the main course, and with great anticipation, a fat dessert with yellow cotton candy on top.
Trump, and his henchmen, are like raw meat to a master like Mueller. He is cooking them up, long and slow, so that they will be tender, juicy and easy to digest when he serves them up to the Department of Justice.
Quickly deep frying a few of the little guys, and calling it good, is for amateurs. That might work for Donald Trump's lunch, but not for the tremendously satisfying Trump feast that Mueller has been preparing for us all these months.
Mueller's favorite book might be How To Serve Man.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 19, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
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Tom...I'm with donald on his gripe that mueller is taking too long...You'd think it was a time and material investigation..? can't mueller water board trump right now and get a confession before trump has the supreme court ban the dubious practice..?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 19, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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We know that Trump's people met with Russians and lied about it. We know Trump said he was thinking of “this Russia thing” when he decided to fire Comey. There's plenty of evidence to demand investigations of illegal election activities or obstruction of justice.
Where will it lead? The public doesn't know yet. Maybe Trump didn't know his people were meeting with Russians. Maybe he did and he'll be caught red handed. Maybe he was smart enough to avoid any evidence he was involved. Maybe he was so incompetent (and didn't have good advisers) he didn't mean to do anything illegal but still broke the law.
But the fact that people (including him) say it's a witch hunt is ridiculous. There's plenty of fishy stuff that went on, and anybody who believes in justice should want to see it play out, even if he's innocent.
Often when he talks about collusion he crosses his arms. A classic well known defensive posture that he should know shows he's hiding something, but maybe he really is that stupid.
It will be interesting to see if evidence is presented he broke the law or if he's impeached who will still support him. Nixon had better approval pre watergate, and went to about 25% approval afterwards. Even if he's proven guilty and impeached you know there will be a minority who will still believe his lies when he will still say it was all a witch hunt.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jul 19, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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Trump hasn't canned Mueller yet... Mueller has called Trump's bluff and is holding some good cards...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 07:36pm PT
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Some gamblers hoard their losing horse racing slips, because they can't bear the thought of throwing them away, and admitting failure.
They delude themselves that, somehow, magically, My Lucky Golden Boy, from Queens, will win if they stare at the expired racing slip long enough, and say, "He'll win, he'll win, he'll win" with enough faith and conviction.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 19, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
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De facto, Pootang is running the show. Why not swap out Trump for him.
He;s certainly the slicker of the two. Then tRump can build his hotel and golf course unimpeded.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jul 19, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
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THE CLEAR VIEW IS;
TRUMP 2020
Norton,,,, He is ur Daddy!!!
Edit; vvvvvv Naw, their gunna make their own planet😂
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
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And maybe pigs will fly & Cosmic will climb once again?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:06pm PT
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What are the odds of Trump fulfilling his campaign promise of great cheap medical insurance for everyone? First term or second term?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 09:24pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Norton suggested that both people put the cash up, now, to be held by a third party who can be trusted.
A contract just gives someone legal standing to sue another person, and can be basically worthless if the intent is to defraud. Even if you win a lawsuit, and obtain a judgement, there is the entirely separate issue of collecting the money.
It would be ironic if a wager on the 2020 election resulted in someone welshing, in the manner that Trump has repeatedly done over the years.
A bank manager might be able to set up an escrow account to hold the funds.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Why would a wager between two people be an illegal bet?
Would it be classified the same way as a craps game, or a slot machine?
EDIT: Apparently, it is illegal for two people to wager on an uncertain event. I suspect it is one of the most frequently violated laws in America.
If the wagering contract was structured, instead, as an insurance contract, then it can be a valid, enforceable contract. The bank would agree to hold the funds, pending a payment to indemnify a sufferer of an insured casualty.
The insured interest would have to be structured in an unusual manner.
For example, the person betting on Trump could be paid to offset potentially catastrophic destruction of their personal property, in the event he wins in 2020. And, vice versa, for the person betting against Trump.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:29pm PT
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No way a bank will get involved with that. A contract to bet is illegal and illegal contracts can not be enforced in the courts. A trusted third party might be best, Neebraun? hahaha.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
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Putin should become POTUS.
But Werner, Putin would shut down YOSAR.
If Trump wins
hey window washer, you don't seem so sure.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 19, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
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I wouldn't take that bet. The percentage of Republicans who still support Trump--despite EVERY outright lie, empty promise, window dressing executive act, racist comment and outright hostility to our system of government and democratic values--is appalling. They have made such false bogeymen of Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and the poor Mexican working some crap job for $8 an hour that they'd cheerily rather support a clueless demagogue than expect him to act competently or, now, act in support of their own country. The Trump presidency confirms that Republicans have no moral or political values. They just want to be in charge, country be damned.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
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I wouldn't take that bet.
With Putin having skin in the American election game, there are too many additional variables, and too many potential scenarios that have never been seen in America before.
Whatever was normal for presidential elections in the past will no longer be relevant if Putin and Trump remain conjoined, pubis to coccyx.
Unless Dr. Mueller can separate the Siamese twins, the 2020 election will go to Trump.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 19, 2018 - 10:20pm PT
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Tom, my assessment was not based on other efforts to rig the system, like gerrymandering, Faux News and internet trolling (which the Russian hackers admitted was not gobbled up by Democrats), though those are clearly factors. It was based on the wilful resistance of the Republicans to see or acknowledge basic facts, or to understand, let alone care about the negative impact that Trump is having on things once taken for granted: a free press, an independent judiciary, etc., etc. But then the Germans loved Hitler too.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2018 - 11:46pm PT
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Forget giving the Young Conniving Attorney 25%.
Both parties arrive at a bank, and open a safe-deposit box that requires both of them to be there in order to open it. The $10k goes inside the box.
After the election, they both go back to the bank, shake hands, and somebody walks off with the cash.
The potential downside is that the loser could, in spite, refuse to show up, so that the cash languishes, unrecoverable, in the box until it is taken by the State as being abandoned.
There has to be some degree of trust in any human interaction.
And, that is exactly why Donald Trump is so repellent - he can't be trusted, at all.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 01:42am PT
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What are the odds of Trump fulfilling his campaign promise of great cheap medical insurance for everyone? First term or second term?
BwaHaHa! Sitting in the ER in Stockholm (not for me, sorry).
The bill is SEK 3500/ $392!
They’re joking, right? Don’t they know they’re leaving money on the table?
And awesome free Wifi!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jul 20, 2018 - 03:44am PT
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I was just reading some of my remarks about some of you people. I do apologise, some of what I had to say was uncalled for. I usually do not go in for ad hominem attacks. I certainly didn't cover myself in glory.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 06:45am PT
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Yeah, braj, almost slipped a disc laughing when I saw the bill! Wanna know the best part?
“You can pay us online when you get home.”
😳 BwaHaHaHaHa!!!!!!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 20, 2018 - 06:47am PT
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BwaHaHa! Sitting in the ER in Stockholm (not for me, sorry).
The bill is SEK 3500/ $392!
They’re joking, right? Don’t they know they’re leaving money on the table?
And awesome free Wifi!
Socialism sucks. doesn't it?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 06:50am PT
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Really! It ain’t right that a nice dinner only costs as much as an ER visit!
And check out what the socialists are driving!
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 07:11am PT
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Yesterday Republicans quietly voted down increased funding for electoral cyber security for States.
Meanwhile they work their asses off to get legitimate voters off the rolls and create hurdles for minority and financially challenged voters.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 20, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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392 for dinner,man.
That is some rugged individualism,right there.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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All over cable news now
FBI has an audio tape of Trump and his fixer lawyer Cohen talking about a payment to a Playboy bunny to shut her up
the party of Family Values strikes again
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 20, 2018 - 09:12am PT
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FBI has an audio tape of Trump and his fixer lawyer Cohen talking about a payment to a Playboy bunny to shut her up
I wonder what else they have, now we know why Trump was in such a panic about the Cohen raid. If the alleged conversation happened around the campaign time it could be a finance law violation.
I gots your right wing spin job right here
"Trump is a man of integrity who takes care of his obligations, up to and including getting an abortion for his prostitutes."
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 20, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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Trump can't win in 2020 if they can't find a place to hold the convention, right?
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-charlotte-rnc-20180720-story.html
As Americans fought in recent weeks over whether restaurants should refuse to serve top aides to President Trump, an entire city has been debating what it means to host his convention for reelection.
Charlotte was set to win the rights to the 2020 Republican National Convention on Friday. But that's largely because it faced little serious competition. And even before the victory was to be announced in Austin, Texas, this thriving, progressive urban island in the Trump-friendly South was suffering some buyer's remorse.
Charlotte Mayor Vi Lyles, a Democrat, says the decision to host the convention has been the hardest she has tackled — "not just as a mayor but as a mom and as a friend" to her community.
To quell anger from her constituents, she has vowed that she will not deliver a welcome speech, an extraordinary break from custom. Other local leaders are going further, promising to use the occasion to speak out against Trump.
...The Republican Party's difficulty in finding a host for the 2020 convention speaks both to the nation's polarization in the Trump era and to the diminishing support for Republicans in cities that have the capacity to manage large-scale events. Even in Republican-dominated states, big cities have grown more culturally diverse and Democratic, with many residents seeing themselves as targets of Trump's anti-immigration measures, divisive racial rhetoric and social policy attacks.
...Some cited security concerns. There was also talk of Trump's popularity with white nationalists, of his child separation policy at the border and of the need to resist "normalizing this hateful man" and keeping the "Trump train and its garbage" out of the city.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 20, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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If two adults freely choose to have sex and later one asks for $$$ to not talk about the encounter which could cause embarrassment to the other... wouldn't that be the crime of extortion?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 20, 2018 - 11:36am PT
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fear - Trumps lawyer solicited these women, to "hire" them to do busy work and to "buy their stories". Even if the women did extort money (no evidence of that) Trump is still guilty of campaign finance law violations, ask John Edwards about that, the Republicans were just giddy about him going down for exactly that. I eagerly wait for the spin on how somehow Trump is different.
McDougal's attorney Peter Stris on Friday tweeted: ".@karenmcdougal98→ When @realDonaldTrump said we were lying, do you think he meant we WEREN'T?"
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 20, 2018 - 11:56am PT
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I am confused.
AFAIR several months ago all progressive liberals on this forum proclaimed en masse that Trump would be impeached in a few month and would leave his office soon.
Does it mean that they have changed their forecast and that they now believe that Trump will serve until the end of his 1st term?
Personally I believe that Trump will be removed.
Even before Trump was sworn in, I thought the situation would warrant impeachment. For instance, his business holdings should disqualify him under the emolument clause of the constitution. It is flat out wrong to have a president that has that sort of financial conflict of interest. This would/should be a really huge scandal in its own right. There is no doubt that the nation is suffering from scandal fatigue.
Another example, his pressuring of Comey and then firing qualifies for obstruction. Impeachment is a political process conducted by congress. You do not have to violate a criminal statue to be impeached. I think of it as a vote of no confidence but with a higher bar.
For instance, a financial officer/treasurer might not be guilty of a crime for charging private jet trips, staying in 5 star hotels, and signing sleazy contracts. But that is a reason to sack him.
I think of impeachment the same way.
Before taking office, it wasn't clear how R's in congress would deal with Trump.
Now it is. They are all-in on Trump. I don't think they will impeach him. It takes 2/3 of the Senate. Ain't happening. If Nixon had this congress, he would never had had to resign in the face of impeachment.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
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AFAIR several months ago all progressive liberals on this forum proclaimed en masse that Trump would be impeached in a few month and would leave his office soon.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 20, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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In Colorado social gambling is legal, so you just gotta get Norton in Colorado and enter into a bona fide agreement with him here, and you should be in good shape (put in jurisdiction / venue clause, and an attorneys' fees provision too, in the agreement).
Assuming he's not judgment proof, that may be enough assurance to wager with him without doing an escrow.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
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Donald Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani confirmed in a statement to CNN that the president’s longtime “fixer” Michael Cohen had other recordings seized by the FBI in wake of the news that the bureau had a tape of the president and his former attorney discussing a payout to Playboy model in 2016.
“The president said ‘I can’t believe Michael would do this with me,'” the statement, read by host John King, noted. “Michael Cohen has other recordings in his records that were seized by the FBI.”
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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Donald "Floppy Don" Trump is at it again.
Two years ago, Trump said that Fed Chairwoman Janet Yellen "should be ashamed" because she was assisting President Obama by keeping interest rates low.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/12/trump-says-fed-chief-yellen-should-be-ashamed.html
Today, Trump is saying that the Fed needs to keep interests rates low, or else they're villains.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/business/trump-fed-china-economy.html
Trump adopted his online character in the "Dark State" MMO fantasy role-playing game on Twitter to attack the Fed.
Trump has a real problem with his PMS (politically motivated statements).
There is no such thing as objective reality for Trump when he is PMSing.
Trump conjures a fantasy-world and false narrative (e.g., "the Fed is intentionally helping Obama", or "the Fed is intentionally hurting Trump"). Then, he uses his PMS to justify, and ostensibly legitimize, his fantasy-world.
The key point is that Trump comes up with his fantasy-world first, and then PMSes with absurd lies to legitimize his invented fantasy-world.
A normal, rational, stable person observes facts and evidence within the reality of the 7.2 billion, and uses that to establish a factual narrative. The normal, rational statements of the factual narrative are supported by, and exist within, the reality of the 7.2 billion.
None of that is true for Trump, especially when he is PMSing.
Trump is often especially disagreeable when he is PMSing, with shrieking outbursts.
His foul and unreasonable statements match his foul and unreasonable mood when he doesn't get his way.
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Jul 20, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
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Fake News!
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 20, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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"The Republican Party's difficulty in finding a host for the 2020 convention ..."
There is no problem.
The repuppetlican convention will be held in Moscow.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
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The pieces on the chess board are coming together in terms of the Russian connection and the end game.
Anyone?
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Jul 20, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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Check!
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jul 20, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
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Yury: "AFAIR several months ago all progressive liberals on this forum proclaimed en masse that Trump would be impeached in a few month and would leave his office soon."
Norton: "another outright lie, prove it, show the posts"
Norton, I apologize for being wrong.
You were right.
I failed to find such predictions in the last several months.
It seems that about half a year ago ST progressives accepted that Trump will serve at least one full term.
I would like to correct my statement as:
"up to half a year ago progressive liberals on this forum proclaimed en masse that Trump would be impeached in a few month and would leave his office soon."
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3035633/Will-Ryan-be-as-bad-a-president-as-Trump-Or-worse
Happiegrrrl2: "Trump will be gone by April Fools Day."
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2998609&msg=2998648#msg2998648
john Hansen: "6) Trump does not stay in office until the 2020 election"
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2998609&tn=20
10b4me: "Pence will be president in January."
Norton, how many examples do you need?
BTW, have you challenged me to do such search because you hoped that I would not have enough time or because your memory did not serve you that well anymore?
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john hansen
climber
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Jul 20, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
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In my defense there are still about 18 months till 2020. And 29 months till the election.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jul 20, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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john Hansen:
In my defense there are still about 18 months till 2020.
john Hansen, nobody is challenging you.
I responded to Norton's challenge "another outright lie, prove it, show the posts", did a bit of searching and shared my findings.
I am also concerned that you may be right after Trump latest comments enraged the whole Party of War (from John McCain to CNN and NYT).
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Jul 20, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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At Echo Project I watched a wookette giving birth during the GZA set. I was just peaking on some 2ci. People were trying to get medical help, but they hadn't arrived. Some other wookette claimed to be a midwife and was coaching the woman through this. Her wook man is standing there shirtless and spun like top, just making these weird sounds while he is crushing his beer can and spraying coors light all over everyone. He looked really anxious about the whole thing, grabbing his face and just making grunts and stuff.
The baby's head starts to crown and the medics still haven't arrived.
This is where it gets crazy...
It was so f*#king dusty out there and the baby and all the surrounding fluids were immediately "muddified" by the blowing dirt. I mean, its f*#king gross. All of a sudden, this f*#king kid (probably 19 or 20) in his oversized neon, flat-brim LRG hat, runs up yelling "welcome to the party bitch!" before he blows a huge plume of smoke right in the baby's face! While the umbilical cord is still attached and shit!
The smell was unmistakeable, this baby had just been deemster'd.
He must have pulled the hit from a bong, b/c it was monstrous. The surrounding crowd dropped their jaws, and someone tackled the kid as he starts to run away. He didn't make it more than 10ft and the he was probably blasting off about now.
The mom is clutching the dirty baby and trying to calm it. Though, strangely, the baby was not crying (tripping balls i guess?).
And while the dude is getting screamed at, the dad suddenly pounces into action. He jumps on the dude, and starts smashing said bisco kid's face with the crushed up beer can, of which he seemingly just can't let go. The bisco kid is kicking and trying to roll out of it and the wook-dad grabs the kid's hair w/ one hand. he finally let the can go and shoves his other hand half way inside the guys mouth. He is pulling his mouth open and RIPS HIS CHEEK OPEN! repeat: rips his f*#king CHEEK OPEN!
there is blood everywhere and the dude lets out this braveheart-like scream as he gets pulled off by the folks around him. Blood all over bisco kid's face, shirt and formerly fresh flat breezy. The cops/medics arrived about that time and took over the situation."
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jul 20, 2018 - 03:11pm PT
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I admit that I believed Trump would be gone by 4/1, and that I was wrong. Gawd, I just hope I'm not wrong in believing he will be gone before too much longer, and that there's no way in hell he'll be re-elected.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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Nato, the European Union, the Paris Agreement are key to what lies beneath.
Obama's world view and the direction he was taking us was a bridge too far.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 20, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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A bridge too far for Kentucky ffs.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jul 20, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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Here's how we vote in Washington; Oregon is similar. No electronic voting machines, no lines at the polls, plenty of time to research the candidates and issues, a paper copy for recounts, and you can check online to see if your vote was counted. The only possible glitch is the counting machines themselves, and that can be policed; with the actual paper ballot saved for recounts fraud isn't an issue.
I believe it's time for national voting standards, including voter registration and required documentation of citizenship, and mail in ballots. There is too much hanky panky going on with voting machines and voter registration requirements; Alabama is a prime example with their closure of drivers' license offices in predominantly black areas, placing a huge burden on citizens who wish to register to exercise their right to vote, as well as making voting difficult with few machines and long lines. Maybe the Australian method, where you HAVE to vote or pay a small fine would be a good idea. It's amazing to me that with all the elections we have had we still see, every election, people waiting in line for hours to vote. How hard is it to get it right? The answer is that it is probably deliberate.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jul 20, 2018 - 04:39pm PT
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2ci?! so thats what it was,damn, swear at the family,they took good care of me 7/16/18 thanx for the beta,,,, never again ,,,,, till next time
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