Trump, America's Unpresident

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clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 9, 2016 - 02:59am PT
Our own all american Kim Jong-un!

I believed there was no way for Trump to win this election. To think of all the good things Trump could have done for the people of North Korea if only they could have been the ones lucky enough to have him as a choice leader choice.

I hope Trump's Brother From Another Mother Foreign Policy works out on the world stage.




jaaan

Trad climber
Chamonix, France
Nov 9, 2016 - 03:05am PT
He looks like Boris Yeltsin (when he was alive, of course).
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2016 - 03:14am PT



LMAOETWAF

The red button brothers. How do I explain this to my border collie?

clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2016 - 03:38am PT
Putin is happy.

Edward Lucas is a senior editor at The Economist, where he was the Moscow bureau chief from 1998 to 2002. He has covered Central and Eastern Europe for more than 20 years. He is also senior vice-president at the Center for European Policy Analysis, a think tank in Warsaw and Washington, DC.
The opinions expressed in this article belong to the author.

(CNN)Yikes. That, put crudely, is the reaction of America's European allies to Donald Trump's victory. Meanwhile in the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin will be popping open the Shampanskoye.

The Republican candidate has long been skeptical about NATO. In 2000, in his book "The America we Deserve," he advocated allowing east Europeans to settle their age-old conflicts without American intervention.
That view may have been prompted by the war in ex-Yugoslavia. These days, Europe's security worries focus on the threat from Vladimir Putin's Russia.

Mr Trump doesn't share those worries. During the campaign he hinted that the United States would defend only NATO allies that paid their full share of the defense burden.

Newt Gingrich, a putative secretary of state, went even further, saying that he doubted America should defend Estonia from Russian attack, because the small Baltic nation was in the "suburbs of St Petersburg." (Note to Professor Gingrich: Estonia's border is actually a good 50 miles from that Russian city. Estonia is also one of the handful of American allies which does meet NATO's target of spending 2% of GDP on defense).

A Trump presidency will shake to its foundations a US commitment to European security that dates back to 1941. Europe still depends on the United States for the bulk of NATO's military muscle (especially nuclear weapons, heavy armor, air power and logistics) and for intelligence collection and diplomatic heft.

Europeans will now be scrambling to fill that gap. Many may regret they didn't do it earlier. Senior US officials have been warning them for years of the consequences of spending too little on defense (and of spending that money wrongly).

Mr Putin, by contrast, has received the biggest boost of his 17 years in power. His big goal has always been to rewrite the rules on which European security is based. From a Western point of view, this post-1991 settlement seems set in stone, and unquestionably good. Big countries pursue their national interests with restraint, in a multilateral framework. Small countries get a say in what happens. Disputes are settled in court or over the negotiating table, not by force of arms.
From the Kremlin's point of view, this security order is intolerable. The rules of the game were written when Russia was weak, following the Soviet collapse. It treats the largest country in the world by landmass -- and the biggest in Europe by population -- as if it were just another player.

Russia has long sought a game changer. It has tested Western resolve with its cyber attack on Estonia in 2007, with the war in Georgia in 2008, and with the annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014. It stoked division and mistrust in the Atlantic alliance -- not least through sponsoring the NSA defector Edward Snowden -- and within Western countries (notably in the US election campaign).
It met little penalty for breaking those rules. And now it faces a US president who does not believe in them either. Game and set to Putin. The match is in his grasp, too.
Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Nov 9, 2016 - 06:37am PT
Europeans will now be scrambling to fill that gap. Many may regret they didn't do it earlier. Senior US officials have been warning them for years of the consequences of spending too little on defense (and of spending that money wrongly).

This might actually be a positive development.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:02am PT
Jody is happy. Killing black people will become even more acceptable.


Curt
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:12am PT
klaus

climber
Linda Mar
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:14am PT
Y'all move to Canada or Mexico yet?
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:14am PT
Curt,

That's not a fair comment to direct at Jody. Yes, he's conservative. Yes, he calls himself a Christian.

But he made clear his view that Trump is a fool. He made that clear long ago. I think he made it clear too that he didn't vote for this evil idiot.

He's entitled to laugh about this unbelievable situation.

You want to pick on conservatives who claim to be Christians? Try others on the site. There are plenty of hypocritical Christians here to go around (as an example, wouldn't Jesus live in a multi-million dollar house?).
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:14am PT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ

Oct 17, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
I love Trump. His loss will be epic and he's going to drag Republicans in the US Senate down with him. Excellent.



Good call, Curt.
WBraun

climber
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:18am PT
(as an example, wouldn't Jesus live in a multi-million dollar house?)

He lives in the heart of every single living entity .........
c wilmot

climber
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:18am PT
Like in Ukraine the left hates democratically elected leaders. Predictable how quick the "deal with it" crowd is making dictator comparisons
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:33am PT
Wilmot, what would you know about life in the Ukraine? Are you an ex commie?
c wilmot

climber
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:36am PT
10b we helped overthrow their democratically elected leader. Perhaps inform yourself-then comment?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 9, 2016 - 07:42am PT
I woke up this morning and my house is still standing, my dog is still alive, and I have gas in my car.

Oh, and I can smoke pot legally
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 9, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Until Jan 21st




If he's convicted of child rape next month can he still be inaugurated?
c wilmot

climber
Nov 9, 2016 - 08:04am PT
The woman claiming she was raped by trump as a child dropped her lawsuit days ago
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 9, 2016 - 11:38am PT
Certainly not implausible.

It seemed like that was all going to change Wednesday, when the woman, who has gone by the pseudonyms “Katie Johnson” and “Jane Doe,” was set to appear at a press conference at the law offices of Lisa Bloom, a high-profile civil rights attorney and TV commentator. But the woman didn’t come to the press conference. Bloom told a room full of waiting reporters that Johnson was afraid to show her face after receiving multiple death threats, and that they would have to reschedule.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 9, 2016 - 11:45am PT


I certainly understand the frustration of voting for a losing candidate in a presidential election, having done so three elections in a row, and 6 times in my lifetime. For me, the best coping strategy has been to refrain from substantive comment for a day or two, other than hoping for the best despite deep pessimism. I see no reason to change my m. o. now.

John
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 9, 2016 - 11:46am PT

The woman claiming she was raped by trump as a child dropped her lawsuit days ago

I wonder how much $ she got for that. Trump change!

edit; what she dropped was the press conference, Not the lawsuit!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 9, 2016 - 11:52am PT
I went to a Zuni shaman for advice.


He said everything will be ok.






patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Nov 9, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
and what a fun descent into fascism this will be!

ssoooo psyched to be a white male with no kids!!!!!!!!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Nov 9, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
The woman claiming she was raped by trump as a child dropped her lawsuit days ago


The anonymous accuser [Johnson] was going to appear in a press conference. Here's a brief list of announcements from Bloom, the accuser's lawyer:

With Bloom’s planned press conference on Wednesday, things might have changed.

But Johnson’s appearance was canceled at the last minute because Bloom said her client had received threats and was afraid of appearing in public.

On Friday evening, Bloom announced that her client had instructed her to dismiss the lawsuit.


Get used to it, that's how things now roll in the USA.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 9, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
I'd rather see a Bernie Sanders than a potential Clinton return in 4-years

Bernie would be seventy eight, so I don't see that happening.
I don't see Hillary runnning again, but I see the possibility of Michelle Obama running.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2016 - 03:49am PT

I know many young women are mourning the blow of a President Trump partly because of the rejection of a woman as the first president -- which is yet another reason I argue we must remake the Democratic Party.
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Join us on Twitter and Facebook

First, the Clinton machine must be rooted out of the party. A quarter of a century is enough time to understand that its ideology has failed the American people.
Second, the Democratic National Committee has to be turned inside out. The disgraced and deposed chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, is only the worst symptom of this wider truth. The party has lost hundreds of state legislative seats, Republicans now control two-thirds of state chambers and have a comfortable majority of governorships (who will determine redistricting in 2020). They have a historic margin in the House of Representatives, will continue to run the Senate and, thus, likely put a Trump-stamp on the Supreme Court.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Nov 10, 2016 - 09:04am PT
^^^ +10

Guys, this is the necessary step to President Warren in 2020.

No problem. By then, she won't be able to ruin the SCOTUS. This election was crucial timing! Whew!

You libs can have your Congress and your administration. But you're not gonna get the SCOTUS for probably our lifetimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/politics/donald-trump-supreme-court-nominees.html?_r=0
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Nov 10, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
Guys, this is the necessary step to President Warren in 2020


A two-for-one. First female and first Native American. Outstanding.


(that was a joke)
Da_Dweeb

climber
Nov 10, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
You're a joke.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 10, 2016 - 10:25pm PT
A two-for-one. First female and first Native American. Outstanding.
Excellent, John!

John
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Nov 10, 2016 - 11:09pm PT
(The woman claiming she was raped by trump as a child dropped her lawsuit days ago)
I wonder how much $ she got for that.
That's pretty insulting - that she'd only drop the charges if she got paid off for it. What else does she do for say $20 - a blowjob?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 11, 2016 - 06:59am PT
You should see someone about that tourettes.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
Nov 11, 2016 - 07:09am PT
Myron Ebell to head the EPA

Kris Kobach part of transition team.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 8, 2017 - 04:47pm PT
This is rather unpresidential!

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/08/leaked-memo-trump-conflict-minerals/

Leaked Trump Presidential Memo Would Free U.S. Companies to Buy Conflict Minerals From Central African Warlords

The leaked draft of a presidential memorandum Donald Trump is expected to sign within days suspends a 2010 rule that discouraged American companies from funding conflict and human rights abuses in the Democratic Republic of Congo through their purchase of “conflict minerals.”

The memo, distributed inside the administration on Friday afternoon and obtained by The Intercept, directs the Securities and Exchange Commission to temporarily waive the requirements of the Conflict Mineral Rule, a provision of the Dodd Frank Act, for two years — which the rule explicitly allows the president to do for national security purposes. The memorandum also directs the State Department and Treasury Department to find an alternative plan to “address such problems in the DRC and adjoining countries.”

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3457048-Document-Final.html
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 8, 2017 - 05:15pm PT
So how is that Hillary for Prison thing working out for you Trumpistas?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 8, 2017 - 05:24pm PT
VA hesitation.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 8, 2017 - 06:56pm PT
And they're coming to take me away, ha ha! ... Where life is beautiful all the time...
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Feb 8, 2017 - 07:03pm PT
Maybe they can hang one of Cheeto von Tweeto in a bathrobe.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 8, 2017 - 07:22pm PT
Spicy Sean said Trump does not own a bathrobe. The two just hang out naked? kinda ghey
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Feb 8, 2017 - 08:38pm PT
Tronald Dump
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Feb 8, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
The CIA is concerned that he might make the step of designating the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist org.
They claim it will really hurt the US in its relations with a large part of the Muslim world.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 10, 2017 - 10:58pm PT
The REAL President:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

somehow posted wrong link earlier...
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 10, 2017 - 11:30pm PT
Amerika's real president, Steve Bannon, cited Julius Evola in a 2014 speech at the Vatican...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/world/europe/bannon-vatican-julius-evola-fascism.html

Julius Evola, photo from the 1920s

Born Giulio Cesare Evola to a noble Sicilian family on May 19, 1898, Baron Julius Evola took on many roles through his long and productive life. He served in World War I as an artillery officer, then became one of Italy's leading Dadaists. Shortly after dalliance in avant-garde and futurist movements, he became an occultist and embarked upon the career path of his mature work. After the first world war, he experimented briefly with hallucinogenic drugs and tantra, but later renounced both these forms of stimulation. During the early 1920s he published with the UR-group, an occult fascist society in Italy. Although he was often critical of the regime, Evola did not suffer greatly under Mussolini's fascists. During World War II, Evola volunteered with the German war effort as a translator of Masonic documents. He was injured during a Russian bombardment and confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. After the war, he continued to write and publish, getting arrested in 1951 for "promotion of fascism." He died on June 11, 1974.

from Wikipedia on Spiritual Racism...
It was this caste-based perspective that was developed in the 1930s and during the war in Evola's extensive writings on racism; for Evola, the core of racial superiority lay in the spiritual qualities of the higher castes, which expressed themselves in the physical as well as in cultural features but were not determined by them. The law of the regression of castes places racism at the core of Evola's philosophy, since he sees an increasing predominance of lower races as directly expressed through modern mass democracies.

on Fascism
Finding Italian Fascism too compromising, Evola began to seek recognition in the Third Reich, where he lectured from 1934 onward. He held hope in the Nazi SS, though took issue with Nazi populism and biological materialism. SS authorities rejected Evola's ideas as supranational, aristocratic, and thus reactionary.

Evola was also a climber.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:26am PT
So how is that Hillary for Prison thing working out for you Trumpistas?

When it's all said and done, trump, and/or his cronies will probably be occupying that spot.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 11, 2017 - 07:38am PT

Trump assumed commuting sentences is changing words in the Constitution.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:41am PT
I opened up Malemute's link to the Public Policy Polling link & got my first belly laugh of the day.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/02/americans-now-evenly-divided-on-impeaching-trump.html

Voters think he's over reaching to make a country safe...that they already consider to be safe. 66% of Americans consider the United States to be a safe country, to only 23% who consider it unsafe. Perhaps as an outgrowth of that sentiment only 45% of voters support Trump's Executive Order on immigration, to 49% who are opposed to it. Among those who do support it you have to wonder how well thought out their position is-

by a 51/23 margin Trump voters say that the Bowling Green Massacre shows why Trump's immigration policy is needed.

That final sentence shows how dim the wits are of many Trump supporters.

To put it in Republican-speak:

Dumb! Them folks are et-up with dumb.
Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:52am PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 11, 2017 - 08:02am PT
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-nationalist-movement-twitter-faster-growth-isis-islamic-state-study-a7223671.html
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 11, 2017 - 08:04am PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:02am PT
The only shocking thing about all of this is that, given just how obvious of a trainwreck this guy would be if elected, people nevertheless elected him and continie to defend him.

I guess the other somewhat surprising thing is how much the Republicans have whored themselves out to this guy for their political gain. Apparently obsolute power does corrupt.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:07am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:11am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:20am PT

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:23am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:51am PT
Here is great example of Blatant Lying by Ted Cruz
He says this as way to defile Democrats because he's a despicable human

Ted Cruz: ‘The Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan’

That statement could be called a fact 50 years ago, but is a complete falsehood at this time.

The only factual statement about the Party of the KKK would be that their party is the Republicans. There may be a couple of Democrats in the KKK at this time, but there has never been a liberal in the KKK.

The KKK Support Donald Trump, the KKK are far right wing racists, they support the Republicans, they vote for Republicans over Democrats no matter what.

This is so typical of the use of propoganda by the right wingers, blame everything you hate about yourself and your party on the other side, divert the truth about yourself to make yourself feel like you're on the right side, it's a way to lie to yourself to make you feel better, it's called Projection.

Lincoln was a Liberal Republican 100 years ago, then the parties changed, so now he would be called a Liberal progressive, that is a fact.
The Republicans are Not the Party of Lincoln.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:59am PT
Really there.... a "train wreck" usually is pretty bad, and usually includes numerous "cars." I am thinking the only thing you could list as wreckage would be "whining libtards."

Cosmic - humor me, and go along with y line of question here. Supposing - JUST supposing - the "whining libtards" proved to be correct in their concerns that our country is seeing a coup d 'etat in it's early stages. JUST suppose that we started to see journalists and professors rounded up(rather than simply having their reporting discounted, as in the current situation). Suppose it begins to become obvious to "more than just the whining libtards" that we are in real trouble; that our country is in fact being demolished.

At what point would you switch tracks and bail from the Trump Train? What WOULD have to happen for you to walk away from your blind faith in the current administration?

And forgive me for using the term "blind" faith, but I do so because I am not sure I have ever seen you write something demonstrably constructive about the actions that administration is taking. I am not exactly sure how one could, frankly.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 11, 2017 - 10:03am PT
To respond to pud's video: I've traveled in Arab countries (more than once), so by that rationale I should be dead. Certainly there are populations that hate Americans and always will. I remember telling my brother in law Marine the same before the Iraqi war got full underway, since he beleived they'd be greeted as liberators. However, anomosity of some does not a terrorist make of all.

Trump claims that there is an emergency need for the executive order means that our country has been in grave peril for the many years before the ban was to go into effect? I don't think so.
Vlad Pricker

Mountain climber
Alaska West
Feb 11, 2017 - 10:30am PT
Pud, that video is a bit disconcerting in that how do we know that guy is really in Iraq? I could make a similar video in Alaska, claiming the opposite of what that guy said and post it on You Tube. And I didn't think the Marine Corps allowed beards that length.

Also, another question for y'all on this forum. When does Alternative News become Fake News?

Mr Locker, that link...

the last paragraph

"It is a dangerous world out there — it's scary, like Vietnam," Trump said about contracting sexually transmitted diseases during a 1997 interview with Howard Stern. "Sort of like the Vietnam era. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave soldier."

LOL, is Trump on the level?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 11, 2017 - 10:45am PT
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 11:12am PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 11, 2017 - 11:14am PT
Locker! Thanks for that link to a fascinating article in a conservative magazine.

Why people believe Trump's lies, fake news, and conspiracy theories!

If you also have been wondering how Trump supporters believe his lies, Here's a link to some explanations in a conservative publication. In a nutshell ---- people tend to believe lies when they feel vulnerable.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-people-believe-trump-lies-and-conspiracy-theories-2016-12

"The less control people have over their lives, the more likely they are to try and regain control through mental gymnastics," said Galinsky. "Feelings of control are so important to people that a lack of control is inherently threatening. While some misperceptions can be bad or lead one astray, they're extremely common and most likely satisfy a deep and enduring psychological need."

Trump or fiction

Of course, the more false the pattern, the more vulnerable you have to be to believe it. And of course, the more gymnastics your brain has to do to accept it.

Enter Donald Trump, a man known for spreading falsehoods. He captured the imaginations of many people who felt vulnerable about the past, present and future. Business Insider's Harrison Jacobs aptly pointed out that he won in parts of the country ravaged by the opiate epidemic — the 'Oxy electorate.'

Talk about vulnerable. These are also places of higher unemployment, where manufacturing jobs have been on the decline for decades. These are places where a rational structure is needed to explain why things got so bad and why they don't seem to be getting better.

But again this is not "rationality" here as we think about it in an economic sense — as a cost-benefit analysis. If it were, individuals would seek the truth no matter what their state of distress, because it is only when a problem is truly understood that it can be solved.
Indeed, Whitson herself has said that "s strategy is better based on reality, not tempting illusions."

Here's a relevant example. Trump has dumped on China over and over since he entered the national stage. He's said that we're losing jobs to Chinese manufacturing and that the Trans Pacific Partnership was "was designed for China to come in, as they always do, through the back door and totally take advantage of everyone."

In the world of facts, however, we know that thousands and thousands of manufacturing jobs have been lost to automation, not off-shoring to China. We also know that China is not involved with the TPP in any way. In fact, the country has been upset about TPP since talks for the agreement started.

The human desire to feel in control supersedes all of those facts, and in turn, pushes us to believe what may be irrational, but is simple, understandable, and gives us a sense of control.

Think about it: Say you believe all the lies Trump has told about trade, China and the global economy. It's a comforting notion, ultimately, because it means he also has the solutions. Voting for him, then, is a way to take control of that untruth.
Vlad Pricker

Mountain climber
Alaska West
Feb 11, 2017 - 11:15am PT
Rumor has it is that Putin is worth $200 billion, if so, wouldn’t that make him the richest man in the world? And is that the definition of kleptocracy?

And if the new Secretary of State Rex Tillerson previously as head of ExxonMobil struck a deal with the Russian government’s oil company Rosneft (Putin?) for Arctic exploration that is at the very least worth $700 million and by some reports could be eventually worth up to a staggering $500 billion (that is half a trillion, sort of hard to believe), that was put on ice (no pun intended) because of sanctions, a question or two then.

What if Mr Tillerson is able to get the sanctions lifted and the deal goes ahead? Who would benefit? Certainly not the Arctic ecosystem, from Norway to Canada, Greenland to Russia, not to mention Alaska.

That is one enormous and huge deal.

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 11, 2017 - 11:17am PT

Trump is feeding fear... fear is good for business...

Dialogue with a strategical narcissist is of course impossible... he is in the imagined "know"...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 11, 2017 - 11:20am PT
Re: puds video.
"If I can get killed by locals here, why would I want to let them into my country?"
False equivalence. One the one hand you have refugees FLEEING a war, who WANT to be in the US. On the other hand you have private security contractor trying to hold together a country we INVADED.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 11, 2017 - 12:14pm PT
Oh look. Another "we hate Donald Trump" thread. Is it Saturday already?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 11, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
"Called the FBI about 3 a.m., anything to get the latest "Rabid Dogs Over-run Trumpistan" nightmare out of my head. FBI answers...nice gal, Svetlana, hails from Murmansk, heavy accent.

So I says to her, any chance Mr. Comey can, you know, hack the vote, and get Sen. Sanders into the White House instead of Trump, as I'm getting, like zero sleep since that "Fascist, loofah-faced sh#t-gibbon" took office.

I don't really know the ins and outs of tele-communciation, but I saw "Three Days of the Condor" four, maybe five times, so I'm always a little paranoid about wire tapping. And I hear this static crackling, and The Boss comes on the phone. My phone! Mr. Putin, in person, doesn't sound a bit like a child molester, I'll give him credit.

Make a long story short, Putin, citing contractural commitments, said no go to trading out Trump for Sanders. The Russians really lucked out with Putin. Strong leader plus nice guy. He suggested I try sleep therapy strategies like bedtime tape loops of Wayne Newton's Danke Schoen, or, if need be, thinking about trans-urethral prostatectomies.

Sleepless in Schenectady"

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/118/477/fce.gif
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 11, 2017 - 12:38pm PT
The article Fritz referenced was based on an interview with Michael Shermer, author and editor of the "Skeptic", and leader of the Skeptical Movement, a Center for Critical Thinking,

I'm a member of this Movement and subscribe to his Magazine the "Skeptic"
also you need the "Skeptical Inquirer" to keep up on current issue

If you want to suss out the truth on any issue, religion, denialism, and why people believe stupid things, then you have to go to fact checkers and fight back against these "Alt-Facts"

As a Skeptic, the most current Science settles the issue, not money or belief.
There is truth and facts, you need to base your ideology on them
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 11, 2017 - 12:40pm PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 11, 2017 - 01:17pm PT
Jim Jefferies smacks down Trump lapdog Piers Morgan in this exchange on Maher's Real Time.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 11, 2017 - 01:19pm PT
Oh look. Another "we hate Donald Trump" thread. Is it Saturday already?


His lies, anger and incompetence will make him a popular topic. Get over it as people keep saying.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 11, 2017 - 01:35pm PT
^^^
Seriously (and sadly) there's something new almost every day. The abuse of power, the lies, you name it. I'd happy not to have something to complain about.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Feb 11, 2017 - 01:55pm PT
^^^
But the entertainment value is priceless...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 11, 2017 - 02:43pm PT
∆∆∆∆

SNL and other late night shows are enjoying their highest viewership in a decade.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 11, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
I do not hate Trump, I actually feel sorry for someone who has so much and is so ungrateful for it. It must suck being him. The real victim is his kids, who he has royally screwed up.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 11, 2017 - 02:49pm PT
I'll bring it over from my e-mail
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
President Donald Trump, who frequently criticized his predecessor for playing too much golf, hit the links for the first time as commander in chief on Saturday — nearly three months before Barack Obama played his first round in 2009.


Mark Knoller, a White House correspondent for CBS News, reports (above) that Obama didn't play his first round of golf as president until April 26, 2009. Trump, meanwhile, teed off on Saturday morning — 15 days into his presidency — at his Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach.

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

While our wonderful president was out playing golf all day, the TSA is falling apart, just like our government! Airports a total disaster!

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 11, 2017 - 03:00pm PT
Anybody know what Donald's handicap is? ;)

I am going with his eggshell ego
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 11, 2017 - 03:10pm PT
https://www.indivisibleguide.com/
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 11, 2017 - 03:43pm PT
Locked Thread, new to me

I have been on this forum since 2005 and I do not recall seeing a thread that has been locked.

Yes, I promised myself that I would not post to anymore political threads, especially after my last rant.

But I wanted to post the following on the “How many politard topics are possible?" thread, but it is locked.

Maybe ChrisMac listened to W.L. and got rid of the politards, or at least that thread.

Anyway, I was watching the film Network this evening and I am not saying it is prescient, but Faye Dunaway’s character said: "The American people are turning sullen… The American people want somebody to articulate their rage for them.”

Now, I am not saying Trump is articulate by any means, but he “mined” a minority of people to articulate their rage for his benefit, not theirs in my opinion.

Now I have not seen Network since, oh, probably since it appeared on the big screen, I just thought that bit was timely.

In the film Dunaway goes on to say: "I want a show developed based on the activities of a terrorist group, "Joseph Stalin and His Merry Band of Bolsheviks."

Instead of that last bit that, it could easily be, “Donald Trump and his Merry Cabinet of Kleptocrats.” Hah hah, except, it is not all that funny.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 11, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
If Hillary had mis-tweeted (lied) Trump would have gone off on her. Most corrupt and dishonest presidency ever.
ecdh

climber
the east
Feb 11, 2017 - 04:29pm PT
Bills great till he goes too far then pulls the satirist card to hide behind. He has a strong position except for the escape hatch that means he cant be relied on to see things thru. Damn shame as hes the only big mouth on the side of good who can match trump byte for byte.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 04:35pm PT
There are now "Trump Phones"

that's right, Trump is now giving out free cell phones to the "poor"

and directing the Federal government to pay the monthly payments with your taxpayer money

These are pre paid Trac phones, because nothing says thanks for voting for me than free phones
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 05:18pm PT
And he didn't pull the plug on the George Bush phones either!

Thanks for pointing that out, TGT
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 11, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
He seems like a good guy compared to his competition. At least we have a beautiful and classy first lady. It's been since Jackie Kennedy since we can say that.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 11, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
Did someone say first lady?

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Feb 11, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
Anybody know what Donald's handicap is?

Hard to say exactly . . . delusional and narcissistic at the least.

His golf handicap is most likely 20+, although alternative facts put it at a solid number two.
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Feb 11, 2017 - 06:42pm PT
NEW POLL: Americans Think Saturday Night Live Has More Credibility Than Trump

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 11, 2017 - 06:48pm PT
" beautiful and classy first lady"
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 06:54pm PT


trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO

Feb 11, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
He seems like a good guy compared to his competition. At least we have a beautiful and classy first lady. It's been since Jackie Kennedy since we can say that.

yeah, I agree that Michelle Obama was neither beautiful or classy

right on, brother trailridge
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 06:57pm PT
*Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke is calling Donald Trump's electoral victory "one of the most exciting nights of my life

Duke, a white nationalist who unsuccessfully ran for Louisiana Senate, tweeted early Wednesday that his supporters played a major part in paving Trump's road to the presidency.


"Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!" he wrote.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
Rogue POTUS Staff ‏@RoguePOTUSStaff Feb 10


POTUS irritated that sev. members of Patriots team will not attend WH visit. Saying he will lobby owner to cut them from the team.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
0ff with their heads...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:16pm PT
hahah - I was just reviewing my CafePress account and see that someone ordered one of the "Libtard & Damned Proud To Be One" shirts.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
Well now! Re Norton's post about Trailridge127 lauding Trump,

Trailridge 127 said:

trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO

Feb 11, 2017 - 05:42pm PT

He seems like a good guy compared to his competition. At least we have a beautiful and classy first lady. It's been since Jackie Kennedy since we can say that.


Norton replied:
yeah, I agree that Michelle Obama was neither beautiful or classy
right on, brother trailridge

Since Norton reminds us of what a classy & elegant first lady Michelle Obama was, it's seems fair to:

1. Call Trailridge senile

2. Call Trailridge stupid.

3. Call Trailridge racist.

4. Or perhaps all of the above.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 11, 2017 - 07:22pm PT
Chris Christie, invisible.

Rudy Guliani, invisible.

Sarah Palin, invisible.

Newt Gingrich, invisible.

Wasn't their enthusiastic support going to make their careers?

I've never purchased any presidential tell all books, but that may change in a few years.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 11, 2017 - 09:02pm PT
These threads are like mushrooms.....

Only mushrooms have more variety.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Feb 11, 2017 - 10:21pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 06:41am PT
Andrew Sullivan nails it:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/andrew-sullivan-the-madness-of-king-donald.html

Then there is the obvious question of the president’s mental and psychological health. I know we’re not supposed to bring this up — but it is staring us brutally in the face. I keep asking myself this simple question: If you came across someone in your everyday life who repeatedly said fantastically and demonstrably untrue things, what would you think of him? If you showed up at a neighbor’s, say, and your host showed you his newly painted living room, which was a deep blue, and then insisted repeatedly — manically — that it was a lovely shade of scarlet, what would your reaction be? If he then dragged out a member of his family and insisted she repeat this obvious untruth in front of you, how would you respond? If the next time you dropped by, he was still raving about his gorgeous new red walls, what would you think? Here’s what I’d think: This man is off his rocker. He’s deranged; he’s bizarrely living in an alternative universe; he’s delusional. If he kept this up, at some point you’d excuse yourself and edge slowly out of the room and the house and never return. You’d warn your other neighbors. You’d keep your distance. If you saw him, you’d be polite but keep your distance.

This. This is not going to get better. He's 70 years old and lacks self awareness, and as the adulation fades and pressures mount, delusions will become more attractive. This sh#t is not normal!

Folks, it's time to get active. Join a local group, get on the phones, be an advocate for a cause that's important. This is an all hands on deck moment for our republic. Don't waste time arguing wtih his supporters, they are mostly hopelessly deluded. Fight the leaders of this unfolding disaster.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 12, 2017 - 06:48am PT
Folks, it's time to get active.

Now is the time to wake the f*#k up and get sober. The time to get active was last November when, had everyone who's upset now voted for the dem nominee, this fascist monster wouldn't be in office. Let's not make the same mistake again in 2018 and 2020.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 12, 2017 - 06:49am PT
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/opinion/preserving-the-sanctity-of-all-facts.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=https://m.facebook.com/
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:34am PT
Yes healyje, last November would've been ideal, but that shipped has sailed. Now with the threat here, it's time for everyone to get off their comfy sofas and get moving.

Never forget: it's all about enriching himself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/donald-trump-shinzo-abe-golf-mar-a-lago.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:44am PT
Indivisible: A Practical Guide For Resisiting The Trump Agenda
https://www.indivisibleguide.com

ACLU
https://www.aclu.org

Union of Concerned Scientists
http://www.ucsusa.org

National Resource Defense Council
https://www.nrdc.org
c wilmot

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:46am PT
Act now!

By giving us money....

The new televangelists?
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:50am PT
Yes c wilmot, they need money.

So what? Are you running out of things to bitch about?
c wilmot

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:04am PT
You can print out the donation receipt to prove you have paid for your indulgence
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:33am PT
Sean Spicer, "Blowing away their dishonesty" ;-)

[Click to View YouTube Video]
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:36am PT
Liberals and minorities and LBGT have gotten everything they have asked for in the last 20 years. What they have forgotten is that their agenda has a cost. Businesses have lost in California, debt has risen to ridiculous levels. California public schools are academically failing. As a teacher Ive seen the seeds the radical left has planted in our classrooms. We no longer have any relevance in the classroom as so many young people, raised in the welfare state have "risen up" to claim their entitlements. Most of them have no ambition but to make babies and climb on the welfare merry go round. Carbon tax, smog check, bullet train, none of these does anything to help the environment. Al Gore makes 100s of millions off taxpayers for doing nothing. Taxpayers pay for murderers to get sex changes. Conservatives have been forced to accept liberal ideas about marriage and immigration. We have lost our economy and our national security. We conservatives have made many concessions on behalf of liberal ideology. I have personally had my business destroyed and had my dignity in the classroom shattered by the racist assults of angry BLM kids who hate all whites. I am one of the most multicultural and sensitive teachers in the State. I can say hello to my students in ten different languages. I taught semesters of AP chemistry, economics, art, us history, ninth grade english, and sixth grade multiple subject. But because Im a white substitute, I was assulted in the first five minutes of class by five AAs. They were not arrested or even punished because the NAACP and ACLU threatened the Sac co office of education with a lawsuit over AA suspension rates. So we dont suspend them anymore and they know that. Now white teachers are expected to subordinate to black student gang banger 0.0 gpa thugs who identify as activists. Yet we conservatives swallowed all the poisin pills the liberals rammed down our throughts with as much dignity and compassion as we could muster. We have made sacrifices for their cause most of our lives. Now for the first time in my life, liberals are asked to make a sacrifice and look at how they behave. BLM and Antifa have turned our streets into a crystalnacht. They call us nazis, but they are the ones painting racist slogans, looting stores, setting fires, creating racist propaganda and calling for neuremberg style laws that benefit themselves (against straights and white people.) All my life the government has taken things away from me in the name of their liberal agenda. Now for the first time in my life, the government is taking something from them. Asking them to compromise in the name of national security and rights of us citizens. And the liberals are hysterical! Apparently they have no compassion for people who are different from them. They believe that everone should defer to them. Simply put, they want to dominate and control everything. Their leaders like pelosi and feinstein only care about money and power. And they will destroy America to have their way. Notice the Clintons bought a $200,000,000 compound in Dubai. With money from their crooked foundation. These illuminati are raping us and USING BLM and antifa to destroy America in their personal bid to gain power. Its time the liberals respect that the silent majority of our nation are sick of being called racists. Sick of paying for welfare queens and their gangbanger progeny. We are tired of being told what to think and even where people can take a piss. I am personally very uncomfortable with the idea of forteen year old girls who "identity " as male in the mens locker room at grant highschool. And I dont want transgender boys in the girls bathroom either. Any parent or teacher who understands adolescents knows what kind of experiments will happen. These kids are limited to use of bathrooms that reflect their biological nature FOR THEIR PROTECTION! But I am a deplorable for asseting that? These liberals are happy about trashing me and our nation. And wait and see: they will take absolutely no responsibility for the consequences. They will be in Dubai. Grow up and stop being naive. The world is alot more danderous, savage, desperate and predatory than you liberals understand. I know you mean well, but WAKE UP! Or get ready to become a soldier.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:44am PT
Blaming failed businesses on the LBGT crowd.
Okie dokie
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:46am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:59am PT
Chainsaw, FYI, there is a handy writing device invented gerations ago called a "paragraph break."
couchmaster

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 09:01am PT


Chainsaw, you have power in your words when you discuss what you personally have witnessed, ie, getting ravaged by idiot kids and no recourse due to pussy administrators. You lose all credibility after that, ie "We have lost our economy and our national security." Not true although our debt went crazy bad under President Obama.

I suspect that a thinking person like you has real concerns about President Trump. He has the emotional security of a 3rd grader. He repeatedly goes off on tangets against people who disagree with him (ie, Mery Streep is over rated ? Not!) ETC ETC ETC. Although it's reported that he has an IQ of 156, he seems unable to finish a complete sentence. While we're on that vein, may I introduce to you paragraphs?








Chainsaw quote:
"Liberals and minorities and LBGT have gotten everything they have asked for in the last 20 years. What they have forgotten is that their agenda has a cost. Businesses have lost in California, debt has risen to ridiculous levels. California public schools are academically failing. As a teacher Ive seen the seeds the radical left has planted in our classrooms. We no longer have any relevance in the classroom as so many young people, raised in the welfare state have "risen up" to claim their entitlements. Most of them have no ambition but to make babies and climb on the welfare merry go round. Carbon tax, smog check, bullet train, none of these does anything to help the environment. Al Gore makes 100s of millions off taxpayers for doing nothing. Taxpayers pay for murderers to get sex changes. Conservatives have been forced to accept liberal ideas about marriage and immigration. We have lost our economy and our national security. We conservatives have made many concessions on behalf of liberal ideology. I have personally had my business destroyed and had my dignity in the classroom shattered by the racist assults of angry BLM kids who hate all whites. I am one of the most multicultural and sensitive teachers in the State. I can say hello to my students in ten different languages. I taught semesters of AP chemistry, economics, art, us history, ninth grade english, and sixth grade multiple subject. But because Im a white substitute, I was assulted in the first five minutes of class by five AAs. They were not arrested or even punished because the NAACP and ACLU threatened the Sac co office of education with a lawsuit over AA suspension rates. So we dont suspend them anymore and they know that. Now white teachers are expected to subordinate to black student gang banger 0.0 gpa thugs who identify as activists. Yet we conservatives swallowed all the poisin pills the liberals rammed down our throughts with as much dignity and compassion as we could muster. We have made sacrifices for their cause most of our lives. Now for the first time in my life, liberals are asked to make a sacrifice and look at how they behave. BLM and Antifa have turned our streets into a crystalnacht. They call us nazis, but they are the ones painting racist slogans, looting stores, setting fires, creating racist propaganda and calling for neuremberg style laws that benefit themselves (against straights and white people.) All my life the government has taken things away from me in the name of their liberal agenda. Now for the first time in my life, the government is taking something from them. Asking them to compromise in the name of national security and rights of us citizens. And the liberals are hysterical! Apparently they have no compassion for people who are different from them. They believe that everone should defer to them. Simply put, they want to dominate and control everything. Their leaders like pelosi and feinstein only care about money and power. And they will destroy America to have their way. Notice the Clintons bought a $200,000,000 compound in Dubai. With money from their crooked foundation. These illuminati are raping us and USING BLM and antifa to destroy America in their personal bid to gain power. Its time the liberals respect that the silent majority of our nation are sick of being called racists. Sick of paying for welfare queens and their gangbanger progeny. We are tired of being told what to think and even where people can take a piss. I am personally very uncomfortable with the idea of forteen year old girls who "identity " as male in the mens locker room at grant highschool. And I dont want transgender boys in the girls bathroom either. Any parent or teacher who understands adolescents knows what kind of experiments will happen. These kids are limited to use of bathrooms that reflect their biological nature FOR THEIR PROTECTION! But I am a deplorable for asseting that? These liberals are happy about trashing me and our nation. And wait and see: they will take absolutely no responsibility for the consequences. They will be in Dubai. Grow up and stop being naive. The world is alot more danderous, savage, desperate and predatory than you liberals understand. I know you mean well, but WAKE UP! Or get ready to become a soldier. "
Norton

Social climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 09:04am PT
Wow

I never realized how victimized conservatives are

Maybe if they quit complaining they could have a life
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 12, 2017 - 09:05am PT
Notice the Clintons bought a $200,000,000 compound in Dubai. With money from their crooked foundation.

Makes sense, they need a place to go after their child molesting rooms below that pizza parlor are found.

Pretty well sums up the election.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 09:08am PT
"Carbon tax, smog check, bullet train, none of these does anything to help the environment."

Really, Teacher?

"I am one of the most multicultural and sensitive teachers in the State."

Hmm.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Feb 12, 2017 - 09:08am PT
You can print out the donation receipt to prove you have paid for your indulgence

I'm sorry your momma never taught you any manners.

I will be delighted to comply with your tasteless request immediately upon Trump releasing his taxes.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 09:21am PT
Notice the Clintons bought a $200,000,000 compound in Dubai

To learn more about this, go to http://www.snopes.com/wikileaks-clintons-purchase-200-million-maldives-estate/

But if clicking and reading through a few paragraphs is more than someone wants to dedicate, here is "the meat"

The SNL Spicer skit was probably the funniest of all the ones I have seen on TrumpCorp.

Edit:

Sick of paying for welfare queens and their gangbanger progeny.
Because only black people rely on our country's welfare benefits, right? Dude, writing that is practically a textbook example of bias.

I am sure you might respond "I never wrote that they were black." Which might be true, except that the sentence you wrote directly ahead of that one was "Its time the liberals respect that the silent majority of our nation are sick of being called racists."

You obviously don't know that: "According to 2013 data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which administers the program, 40.2 percent of SNAP recipients are white, 25.7 percent are black, 10.3 percent are Hispanic, 2.1 percent are Asian and 1.2 percent are Native American." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/28/food-stamp-demographics_n_6771938.html

If you actually want to learn a little about our welfare system, this article writes about some of the common misconceptions. https://groundswell.org/7-lies-about-welfare-that-many-people-believe-are-fact/

am personally very uncomfortable with the idea of forteen year old girls who "identity " as male in the mens locker room at grant highschool. And I dont want transgender boys in the girls bathroom either. Any parent or teacher who understands adolescents knows what kind of experiments will happen.

You know what? As a straight female, I too am uncomfortable with the idea of being in the male locker room at high school.

The reason being - that I am imagining my SELF in the situation. I don't identify as a male. I am female, and so of COURSE I would be uncomfortable in that situation. But if I was born with the anatomy of a male, and felt the way I do - that I am a FEMALE - I would feel uncomfortable being in that locker room with all the boys.

"Experiments will happen?" Are ya KIDDING? Experiments in what - bullying? Sexual Assault? The female bodied little boy is not going to spread his legs and lay down; his virginity for the taking. The male-bodied little girl is not going to suddenly "go rogue" and start chasing the other little girls, grabbing them by the...well, you know.

How about we teach our boys that rape and assault are not appropriate? How about we teach our children that just as beauty is only skin deep, for some people, with sexual identity, it's "what's inside that counts?"
Norton

Social climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 10:50am PT
Notice the Clintons bought a $200,000,000 compound in Dubai

To learn more about this, go to http://www.snopes.com/wikileaks-clintons-purchase-200-million-maldives-estate/

well, scoutmaster, it appears that you have "lied"

a lie is when you say something that you know is false

but maybe you can say that by forwarding a "lie" from someone else does not make you a liar

and if not, then the only thing left is that you are either too intellectually lazy to get the "truth"
before you pass on a lie, or, you are too ignorant and predisposed to political bias to know the difference, which is it, a liar or just ignorant?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 12, 2017 - 10:54am PT
Chainsaw, I find it difficult to see that you are a teacher if you do not know how to use paragraphs. I can't recall when I learned how to use them, but it was at least before the first grade, I know that.

So, I sort of have to conclude that you may not be a teacher, I mean come on, paragraphs are one of the basics. And if you are not a teacher, how can I believe anything else you have written. I would think that perhaps there may be one or two truths there, but your credibility is not there for me.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 12, 2017 - 11:24am PT
chainsaw better learn to spell.. the supertopo twits will go after you

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 12, 2017 - 11:33am PT
One of the most sensitive teachers in the state my ass.
One would have zero hope of measuring that, but thanks for the fake news!
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Feb 12, 2017 - 11:37am PT
The thought that Chainsaw might actually be a teacher makes my skin crawl. Period.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Feb 12, 2017 - 11:38am PT
pyro, better learn that the actions of one individual don't impugn an entire religion or the supertopo twits will go after you.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2017 - 12:27pm PT
So much content for SNL.

SNL was funny, the elected buffoon and company is not.

Jihad on decency for a conservative Supreme Court? My fellow Republicans, let's see how this works out.



Meanwhile, news in the Dominican Republic.

The Dominican Republic's El Nacional confused actor Alec Baldwin with his spoof target, President Donald Trump.
El Nacional apologized Saturday after identifying Baldwin as President Donald Trump, whom the actor impersonates regularly on NBC's "Saturday Night Live" to critical praise and Trump's oft-tweeted displeasure.
On Friday the newspaper published a photo of the actor along with a caption calling him, "Donald Trump, president of the USA." The photo accompanied a news article about Israeli settlements which also had a photo of (the actual) Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.
Oops.
"The situation went unnoticed by those who revised page 19," the newspaper said in a statement Saturday. "El Nacional apologizes to its readers and anyone who felt affected" by the error, it said.


Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 02:47pm PT
Wait, didn't chainsaw say in some other thread that he was working on some double top secret project for the military or State Dept.? Now he says he's worked in the trenches of some high school somewhere? I'm waiting for him to write next that he clerked for Antonin Scalia while a law student at Yale. That was before he was part of the SEAL team that took out Osama Bin Ladin.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 12, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Feb 12, 2017 - 03:11pm PT
Maybe chainsaw is Klimmer

that would ease my mind, as the thought of having more than one teacher with that mindset would be scary..
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 12, 2017 - 03:33pm PT
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Feb 12, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
Yet we conservatives swallowed all the poisin pills the liberals rammed down our throughts with as much dignity and compassion as we could muster. We have made sacrifices for their cause most of our lives.

Can you give examples of these "sacrifices" Chainsaw?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 12, 2017 - 03:42pm PT
down our throughts

Betsy DeVos type teacher. Perfect for the future of our kids....
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 04:00pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Feb 12, 2017 - 04:58pm PT
These illuminati are raping us

Pray you don't get pregnant. Getting harder and harder to have an abortion.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
As for the comment about losing my business, I used to hire bands like June and Jean Millington (warner bros first all woman rock band) and Di Patterson and Tret Fure. All LGBT bands. That was til the democrats in Calavaras took away our permit to make room for their campaign contributors at Ironstone Vineyards. The said "we dont like your tiedied women with all the armpit hair. We hope you jump in the sewer and die of cholera" Supervisor Marita Calloway. We lost about $270,000. And to you who question my work history, Ive probably worked alot more than you have. I usually have two businesses and a fulltime job. As for my teaching, I taught about Langston Hughes and Malcolm X and Ghandi, Ceasar Chavez and MLK. MLKs own niece condemns BLM. But you seem to equate BLM with the civil rights .
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Feb 12, 2017 - 06:25pm PT
And yea fat dad, I worked for nine years on a bacterial pathogen research project at UCDavis that required me to take the Oath of Allegiance to the USA and California. I was an environmental health and safety officer for radiation and chemical safety. I am Faculty Emeritus at Davis. I worked my way through college. I worked in probably the most international molecular biology lab in the world. We conducted experiments pertaining to horizontal gene transfer. And every nation in the world who could squeeze a post doc into our lab stole as much strategic technology and intellectual property as humanly possible.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:09pm PT
I strongly encourage everyone to read the article locker posted a link to. It's pretty alarming.

In light of this, and out of worries about the White House’s ability to keep secrets, some of our spy agencies have begun withholding intelligence from the Oval Office. Why risk your most sensitive information if the president may ignore it anyway? A senior National Security Agency official explained that NSA was systematically holding back some of the “good stuff” from the White House, in an unprecedented move. For decades, NSA has prepared special reports for the president’s eyes only, containing enormously sensitive intelligence. In the last three weeks, however, NSA has ceased doing this, fearing Trump and his staff cannot keep their best SIGINT secrets.


Michael Flynn has got to go. He's a serious nut job.

And before anyone starts screaming "liberal media," until recently "The Observer" was owned by Jared Kushner.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:24pm PT
To get a real picture of the problem, adjust those figures for population density of the various races and you will see something very different.

Could you please provide me with the number you are referring to?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
if the russian hackings and campaign influence weren't a red flag for the American voters this latest report should be , but the Trump voters are still quivering in their boots over Hillary's missing emails...
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
Yep RJ. Hillary's fooking emails.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
Down to 40% approval, 55% disapproval:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
woah.... I went perusing Chainsaw's posts for a bit, as I had never noticed the poster before.

On the "This is Happening" thread(about the riots in Berkeley(which ended up being NOT just normal ole Libtards), Chainaw goes full-on batsh#t, post-talking like a televangical preacher on a rampage.
My Oath is to The State of California and The United States of America and I will defend her from all enemies, foriegn and domestic. You have choosen to join the enemies of democracy and the enemies of our State and our Union. Whom do you serve? Isis? Black Lives Matter? Nancy Pelosi? Diane Feinstein? Yeah Im angry. I have lived long enough to know how good the world was before you. Without you. And I have lived long enough to know that you will defeat yourself with every fire you start. Keep on burning Universities that all may know you. "You shall know them by the fruits they bear." You are a tree of thorns that bears no fruit.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:49pm PT
You forgot this part dirtybags.


Daily results are based on telephone interviews with approximately 1,500 national adults; Margin of error is ±3 percentage points.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:51pm PT
Um...So?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:53pm PT
^^^
and,,,
you answer to "dirtybags" now THAT'S humor!

Point is, your poll means very little. Were the 1500 people polled in San Francisco, CA or Mousula MT. Guaranteed different results.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
What's your point?

That he could actually have a 43 % approval rating, or that only 52% might hate the bastard? Well gee, great news!
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:00pm PT
Daily results are based on telephone interviews with approximately 1,500 national adults; Margin of error is ±3 percentage points.

Pud, I highlighted the part you should focus on.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:00pm PT
Yes pud, I'm sure Gallup did such a half assed job in sampling.

Maybe they actually asked a bunch of caged monkeys to fart once if they approve of trump, twice if they disapprove?


Good lord....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:01pm PT
Russ - thank you for the link. I will peruse it.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 12, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
Russ, from what I am understanding of the report you posted, and other pages from USDA I am reviewing, it suggests that a greater percentage of black people in the US, as a race, receive government assistance that the percentage of whites, as a race. But the numbers, as a representation of the entire population show that caucasion is the higher percentage, and that caucasion also has the highest percentage of the population as a whole.

So - if I am understanding right, and going by where the "tax dollars" that go to the programs g(which is what people SAY they are complaining about) - If I had one dollar in tax money that went for government assistance, more of that dollar goes "to whites" than "to blacks."

So....is it not about how much of one's tax dollar is going to help "others?" Or is it abut how much of one's tax dollar is going to help people of colors "other" than our own?

If it's the former, that's one thing, although I also understand the average percentage of one's tax dollar that goes to government assistance is actually less than one percent. If it's the latter - well, that is racist, in my book.

One can of course make the argument of a "greater percentage of blacks as a group," but then I think we have to also factor in some other components, since it is pretty evident that discrimination is alive and well(or sick, more aptly). It is way more than I am capable of researching and analyzing.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2017 - 06:11am PT

New series on FOX, it's about a billionaire taking charge of policing Chicago.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 13, 2017 - 07:35am PT
The recent past election has proven to everyone that polls are worthless....

So why do people still care what "polls" say?

And even in a perfect world with perfect polls, what's the point?
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Feb 13, 2017 - 07:51am PT
Trump's problem(one of them, anyway) is that he doesn't know the difference between being the CEO of Trump Enterprises and being POTUS.

A bigger problem is that his supporters don't care.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 07:54am PT
#ProudlyOutOfControl



http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-abcarian-trump-california-20170208-story.html
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:03am PT
c wilmot

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:11am PT
Wade Icey- what is the point of re posting the same extremely dumb photos over and over?



Do you work for geico or something?
WBraun

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:30am PT
Locker is having an issue with a person trying to make a point ...
WBraun

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:33am PT
Locker is losing it .....
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:33am PT
Down to 40% approval, 55% disapproval

Couple that with "real winner" comments, and then consider....


Don't get yourselves all worked up about this or that time-slice. Mr. "Hope and Change" had himself some pretty crappy approval ratings over time, once people finally realized that he offered neither hope nor change. Yup, a "real winner."

For Trump to be as much of a "winner" (within the margin of error) as the Obumbalator in Chief, he's got a long row to hoe ahead of him.

Or, you could join the ranks of the reasonable and realize that trying to use this or that data-bit in this or that time-slice to derive any substantive point is a fool's errand.

You don't like Trump. Yeah, we got it.

ECHO

Echo

echo
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:36am PT
Oh he's a winner alright. Took him a mere 8 days for his approval to be underwater: a HUUUUUUUGGGGE record.

But I'm sure he'll improve. Thin skinned, narcissistic, bigoted, know nothing bullies make great leaders.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:41am PT
Ah, the likes of dirtbag never learn.

ECHO

Echo

echo
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:48am PT
Hiel Putus
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:50am PT
I don't care if no one reads it !


Here :

“We have at most a year to defend American democracy, perhaps less https://tmblr.co/ZuwP1u2IHO_Z1



You wrote an article for Slate in November, comparing the rise of Donald Trump with the rise of Adolf Hitler. Why did you feel the need to publish such a piece?

It’s very important that we use history to our advantage now, rather than finding in history taboos and ways to silence one another. The history of the 1930s is terribly important to Americans (and Europeans) right now, just as it is slipping from our memories. I was not trying to provoke one more fruitless series of conversations about comparability. I was trying to help Americans who were generally either shocked (people who voted against Trump) or surprised (people who voted for him, who generally thought he would lose) find their bearings in a new situation. The temptation in a new situation is to imagine that nothing has changed. That is a choice that has political consequences: self-delusion leads to half-conscious anticipatory obedience and then to regime change. Anyway, I didn’t actually compare Trump to Hitler, I didn’t use these two names. What I did was to write a very short history of the rise of Adolf Hitler to power without using his name, which might allow Americans to recognize certain similarities to the moment they themselves were living through. I know that these comparisons are a national taboo in Germany, but at the moment its rather important that Germans be generous with their history and help others to learn how republics collapse. Most Americans are exceptionalists, we think we live outside of history. Americans tend to think: “We have freedom because we love freedom, we love freedom because we are free.” It is a bit circular and doesn’t acknowledge the historical structures that can favor or weaken democratic republics. We don’t realize how similar our predicaments are to those of other people.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:51am PT
You love Trump, we get it. Echo echo echo.

There's going to be a lot to make fun of with the Clown In Chief. Get used to it.
Echo echo echo

So Called Ruler Of The U.S.
SCROTUS
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:52am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:05am PT
So this is what you guys are saying

Fascists love their Fascist Authoritarian Leader

They will support him no matter what he says or does
And everyone that doesn't agree with them are whiners
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:10am PT
You love Trump, we get it.

Actually, I don't.

Echo echo echo.

The only echo-chambers are by libs, who are the vast majority of this site. Same hand-wringing, same moaning, same "making fun," which is really just laughing so you don't cry (some more) echoing.

There's going to be a lot to make fun of with the Clown In Chief. Get used to it.

Yet, anybody making fun of the community-organizer not-even-finished-with-first-term senator was a "racist." In the liberal mind, the Obumbalator was sacrosanct, and anybody "attacking" him was loaded with vile epithets.

Got it.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:22am PT
Hilarious how Trumpers are always saying they like someone else, or voted for someone else.
He's your boy, own it.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:32am PT
And everyone that doesn't agree with them are whiners

You're a little confused, as usual. ALL of the whining since the election has been liberal. ALL of the vile accusations have been from liberals. ALL of the people who can't move on with their lives since the election have been liberal.

You ARE whiners, and these very threads are ample evidence of that fact.

Not to mention....

[Click to View YouTube Video]

The irony here, of course, being that Bank of America was a major CLINTON donor. LOL

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Just do what you insisted to we anti-Clinton folks in advance of the election: Get over it. Remember when Clinton COULD NOT lose? Get over it. Remember when people tried to talk but you just buried them in vile epithets? Get over it. Remember when people tried to urge for ANY other candidate than Clinton, but you wanted her and ONLY her? Get over it.

Just settle down now. You'll survive the next four years. Especially if you honor the rest of us with the long-promised Calexit.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:33am PT
LOL...

Redneck.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:37am PT
Hilarious how Trumpers are always saying they like someone else, or voted for someone else.

I totally own voting for Trump. YOU insisted on Clinton, and the wide swath of this nation just couldn't go there.

He's your boy, own it.

Actually, he's OUR boy, because YOU contributed as much as anybody to this outcome. Determined to polish the turd and sell it, regardless of the cost, what a shock to YOU that America wasn't buying!

YOU were warned and warned on these very threads that ANY other candidate would be a better Democratic choice, you were undeterred. Clinton COULD NOT LOSE!

So, you libs also need to own it. But that's the very thing you can't do. Instead, you incessantly bag on anybody who could not go with you into Clinton-la-la-land, when had you put up ANY other warm body, Trump would not have been elected.

What you don't get is that this election was about electing ANYBODY but Clinton! Once you committed to Clinton, just about any other mammal could have beat her.

Own that, and quit whining.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:39am PT
Blah blah blah

Your boy is the Whiner In Chief. Have you ever seen any of his tweets!??
SCROTUS
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:40am PT
Mdbolter - It is pretty bizarre that you would place Obama's "city coordiator" or whatever it was called in the same ballpark as conspired with Russia to get the presidency(which IS being proven as fact and guess what - Trump has been zip-lipped on calling THAT fake news....). But whatever.I could understand comparing Trump's seeming inability to recognize actual presidential topics and instead tweet about superfluous matters(I am not included the vapid self-victim tweets in that though). But for crying out loud - there is seriously serious serious sh#t gong down.




separate point:
He got slammed for his Twitter post about how FAKE NEWS didn't report his hoards of supporters in Florida when he was leaving Maralago when he maybe "could" have RT'd about the disaster unfolding at the Oroville dam.




madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:41am PT
Just pointing out that anybody else is a whiner makes you no less of one.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:45am PT
conspired with Russia to get the presidency(which IS being proven as fact and guess what - Trump has been zip-lipped on calling THAT fake news....).

If this is a proven fact, then you'll be able to quickly prove it with citations.

NOT interpretations! We weren't allowed to "interpret" ANYTHING about ANY obvious facts regarding Clinton's conspiracy to thwart every federal records-keeping law in existence.

No, we want PROOF. NO interpretations!

Oh, and while you're at it, please explain why Trump is not already impeached and indicted for treason, given the PROOF you claim to have.

(BTW, you're going to find proving it to be maddening, as we now treat as "mere interpretations" your every effort to connect the dots, which is how you treated the straight line of dots regarding Clinton.)
couchmaster

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:46am PT




^^^There's plenty of whining going on all sides, and I suspect that Trump voters will be whining the loudest before it's over.

It appears that this thread has promise to be the top whineathon of all whineathons on Supertopo of they don't delete it prematurely like most political threads once folks start threatening to kill each other for what they perceive as aberrant views from the other side. I'll set the over-under line at 3000 posts in case anyone wants to lay some $cratch on it:-)

Haha, kidding on the last part.




dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:49am PT

No, we want PROOF. NO interpretations!

LOL.

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:55am PT
Actually, he's OUR boy, because YOU contributed as much as anybody to this outcome. Determined to polish the turd and sell it, regardless of the cost, what a shock to YOU that America wasn't buying!

YOU were warned and warned on these very threads that ANY other candidate would be a better Democratic choice, you were undeterred. Clinton COULD NOT LOSE!

So, you libs also need to own it. But that's the very thing you can't do. Instead, you incessantly bag on anybody who could not go with you into Clinton-la-la-land, when had you put up ANY other warm body, Trump would not have been elected.

What you don't get is that this election was about electing ANYBODY but Clinton! Once you committed to Clinton, just about any other mammal could have beat her.
This comes close to lowering the bar (which is saying something on this site) when completely failing to understand the issue(s). My take is that those mental deficits that prompted people to vote for Trump in the first place also prevent them from seeing what a train wreck this guy is. Hey genius: THIS IS NOT ABOUT HILLARY; THIS IS ABOUT WHAT A SH#TSHOW TRUMP IS.

This is about Steve Bannon drafting an executive order placing him on the National Security Council and Trump signing it without being briefed on it.

This is about a president who continues to double down on lie and false information.

This is about a president who fails to divest himself from his business interests while continuing to promote those same interests.

This is about a president who drained the swamp and make them his cabinet appointees.

This is about a guy who continues to move forward spending untold billions with his plan to build a wall between us at Mexico, for little benefit other than appeasing his racist base.

Want me to go on? There are many, many other examples, and were less than a month into his presidency. You own this guy. Let's see you defend him!
John M

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:59am PT
Trump voters whined the entire time Obama was president. They even got congress to investigate Obama's birth certificate.

Plenty of whiners on both sides.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:01am PT
Whiner In Chief, Traitor Flynn, Kellyanne Boozelizard, Sean The Lie Sphincter, and now the new boy Miller saying "The president's power shall not be questioned." Right.
There's a difference between bitching and whining. I'll be bitching loud and clear for all to hear. Listen up bolter and keep defending your boy.
John M

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:19am PT

This is about a guy who continues to move forward spending untold billions with his plan to build a wall between us at Mexico, for little benefit other than appeasing his racist base."...

if you could just leave out the racist part then you might find it easier to discuss this. Not everyone who is for a wall/way of stopping the influx of people over the border is racist. some people have legitimate concerns over illegals traveling through their property.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:22am PT
Raise your hand if you think trumpco is using the White House email server for their machinations.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:22am PT
Yep, what crankster said. Sheesh, reading madBolter1 is like listening to Fox News.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:27am PT
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:28am PT
Problem is a monolithic "wall" is useless. Throughout recorded history that's been proven.

Beyond the insane expense of materials to build this useless thing the real costs are in the constant and YYYUUUGGGEEEE military force you'd need to patrol an expanse of that size. The bricks and mortar are nothing in comparison.

End the entitlements for illegal immigrants, end the war on drugs(I laughed a little bit), end the anchor-baby policies. Remove the policies that bring people here and see what kind of reduction we get after that.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 10:41am PT
End the entitlements for illegal immigrants

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:16pm PT
End the entitlements for illegal immigrants

I can guarantee you that illegal aliens are getting plenty of "free" benefits at every hospital in the region.

But at the end of the day the entire Mexican thing is a distraction to the MIC machine that consumes more resources every hour than every illegal could hope to in a lifetime.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:16pm PT
MIC machine that consumes more resources every hour than every illegal could hope to in a lifetime.

Well said.






The end result of this, though, is that our opponents, the media, and the whole world will soon see, as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial, and will not be questioned.


[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:18pm PT
That dude is a fascist.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
That dude is a fascist.

Ironic that he is a nice Jewish boy from Santa Monica, and that his parents are Democrats.
couchmaster

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:36pm PT



Is anyone else looking forward to Al Franken running for President in 2020 with Jill Stein as his running mate? Let's call that the Franken-Stein ticket. ...Franken-Stein...? heh ... no? Hmmm, I'll have to talk slower to ya'll. F.r.a.n.k.e.n.-S.t.e.i.n.







Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
Interesting recent article in the NY Times about that guy: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/stephen-miller-donald-trump-adviser.html

Former aide to Jeff Sessions (big surprise) and a guy who's emails to other members of Congress were, until recently, considered spam because of their out there content. Now he's writing executive orders and pushing for construction of the wall. This guy couldn't manage an Appleby's, now he's one of the president's two inner most advisors.

Edit: just watched that short clip. "The power of the President will not be questioned". Scary stuff, especially if he believes it. She should go submit his resume to Putin. He already has the oppressionist mindset down.
couchmaster

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:47pm PT
No?

OK, how about Anthony Weiner and Eric Holder running together then?

Weiner-Holder .......not a good slogan ....? Too soon?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 12:59pm PT
Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits.

Not true. For decades in California, pregnant women have been crossing the border illegally, ready to pop, going to any general hospital where service cannot legally be denied, having the child (at taxpayer expense), and thus producing an instant citizen. Now we can't deport the mother, who is trivially granted at least a green card if not outright citizenship, and is then a burgeoning welfare family and who then systematically employs longstanding immigration standards to bring over "immediate family," thus increasing the size of the welfare family.

It's been done countless times and is a well-known process for "immigrating." Of course, entirely at taxpayer expense beginning to end.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
MB, the wife has delivered some of them, still with muddy feet and clutching maps with
directions to every LA County hospital. And because nary a one had any pre-natal care
when they have complications the abogados are there in a flash to sue the county big time.

Now we also have the Chinese maternity homes where they show up with a tourist visa before
they are showing big time and live the next five months.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:07pm PT
More about Stephen Miller, who apparently wasn't well received on his recent Sunday morning news show rounds. An opinion piece he wrote in the 9th grade (not that long ago for a guy who's only 31): http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/letters/Letters-2002/MARCH_2002/03_27_2002_Political_Correctness_Out_of_Control.htm

Some delightful excerpts from his letter:
After all, the United States has used our soldiers to kill innocent people, and the same Indians that helped the pilgrims were either shot, or put on reservations. I suppose then, that our country would have been better off if our soldiers never killed anyone, and we watched as our nation was obliterated by the evil in the world, as we sung songs of peace and love.

Or, better yet, we could have lived with the Indians, learning how to finger paint and make tepees, excusing their scalping of frontiersmen as part of their culture. Forget about being the nation that stopped Hitler, brought communism to its knees, and feeds more hungry people around the world than any other country -- forget all of that, and let us just agree that we're a horrible nation. Or, we can raise our flags, lift our guns, and proclaim that we are Americans, that we enjoy personal freedoms Islamic nations could only dream about, we are the land of the free, the home of the brave.

Sadly, my school has forgotten all of this. That is why we do nothing for American holidays but everything for Mexican holidays.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:13pm PT
Couch, yer killin' me!
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:14pm PT

The guy has fed his head with altenative facts.

One of them: America stopped Hitler.

True fact: Russia was the nation who primarily, and without a shade of doubt, stopped Hitler.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:22pm PT
Reilly, notice how the libs instantly ignore the "little" fact-correction?

It doesn't "resonate" with the echo-chamber, so they play pretend that no such post occurred nor such facts exist.

Also, note that not a single "mainstream media" outlet so much as mentions, much less covers, what is now widely known all over YouTube: the liberal and heinously racist death threats (many by other blacks) against Joy Villa for wearing a MAGA dress to the Grammys. Called a "coon" and worse, she has been subjected to the "best" that the "tolerant" liberals can dish out.

Only Breitbart reports it, but, of course, Breitbart is "fake news." LOL

Liberals really don't want free speech; they want only...

ECHO

Echo

echo
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:24pm PT
Looks like they had to pull Kelly Ann Conway from TV. She had been the ultimate spin master.

I loved it when she said that Trump will not release his tax returns, despite repeated promises to eventually do so, saying that the people who elected him don't care.

He is now the U.S. President. Not just for those who voted for him.

I have some friends. The wife is from France. They have been here for a long time. I asked her what people in France thought of Trump, and she said they were as freaked out by his rhetoric as we are here.

Ad Hominem attacks, going after little people at 3:00am on Twitter.

His cabinet is filled with rich white guys with no experience.

The anti-Obama crowd, only a few months before the election were going off on his executive actions, claiming that he was short cutting the congress and the constitution. Now Trump has done nothing BUT sign executive order after executive order.

He is proving to be an embarrassment much of the time. Tweeting against Nordstrom's and anyone who criticizes him. He just doesn't have a thick skin, and it shows. We have never seen a president act this childishly.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
I was thinking that Al Franken may be a potential for the presidential run in 20. But the idea of Franken-Stein ticket is awesomely humorous.

Madboltr, You are right in that the dots haven't been, at least publicly, connected, yet, with regards to "proof" of the campaign/election malfeasance.

Time will tell. Either the bastard will skate, or he will be safeguarded while some others take the hit and end up hung for treason, or god-forbid, although if guilty it will be his just due, he will be tried. But I think he will probably just let that son in law of his go down.

But no matter what, unless that whack job somehow does manage to pull the plane out of the death spiral(as has been hoped for by his party members each and every time he does something despicable), I don't believe he will find a happy life after the White House.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:42pm PT
The Immigrant Round Up has begun

Make sure you got your papers in order, and a fresh copy of your Birth Certificate, other wise, you may be arrested and dropped off in Tijuana.
Maybe some white face can keep in the country for a couple more days.


Immigration Agents Arrest 600 People Across U.S. in One Week

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/12/nyregion/immigration-arrests-sanctuary-city.html?_r=0

President Trump proclaimed on Twitter early Sunday morning: “The crackdown on illegal criminals is merely the keeping of my campaign promise. Gang members, drug dealers & others are being removed!”


and if you listen to the MadBarker, This is All the Libs Fault!!!!
we didn't blah blah blah Hillary blah turd blah

how many thousands of words has he wasted on Hillary and the what he calls the loser libs

give it break

It's not the Libs Fault
ALL of This rest solely on the Trump Voters
They voted for him
They made him President
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
Your "echo" chamber is the vast majority of voters. But go ahead, overreach, ignore facts and sh#t.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
Reilly, notice how the libs instantly ignore the "little" fact-correction?

While the first part of your "correction" was likely true, the rest wasn't. Being an illegal mom of a US citizen child does not qualify anyone for a green card, never mind getting one trivially. Of the public benefits listed in the original post, none are available to illegal immigrants.

More importantly, which party has proposed doing anything about this purported problem? NEITHER! What has Trump proposed? NOTHING!

TE
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 01:47pm PT
WILL NOT BE QUESTIONED!!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
Your "echo" chamber is the vast majority of voters. But go ahead, overreach, ignore facts and sh#t.

Okay, facts....

Clinton won the popular vote by right at 2% of voters, hardly "the vast majority."

Lots of people voted "against Trump" in the same way that lots of voters voted "against Clinton," neither of which could be said to have SUPPORTED the candidate for whom they felt forced to vote.

Finally, the radical left libs (who seem to congregate on this site) are a tiny subset of Clinton voters.

Thus, for all of the reasons above, the echo chamber is NOT "the vast majority of voters" by ANY stretch.

You know, "facts and sh#t."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:04pm PT
Being an illegal mom of a US citizen child does not qualify anyone for a green card, never mind getting one trivially.

False.

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-family

And how would you like dozens of references to immigration attorney's sites stating things like, "The US government is extremely liberal in granting green cards and even citizenship to immediate family members of US citizens or those possessing green cards. We can help you obtain your green card, usually within a couple of months."?

There are dozens and dozens of attorneys specializing in accomplishing the VERY thing I specified. Once you have an anchor baby in country, the rest follows TRIVIALLY and has been for decades.

Of the public benefits listed in the original post, none are available to illegal immigrants.

Typical lib-speak: Couch the terms to be technically true, while ignoring the vast swath of loopholes that have for decades been employed to accomplish the very thing they said "can't happen."

In this case, the taxpayers DO pay for anchor babies to be born in vast numbers. The taxpayers DO then grant green cards and even citizenship to "immediate family members" of the instant-anchor-citizen. The taxpayers DO then pay for education, healthcare, etc., etc. for many, many anchor-families. Etc.

Many DO end up becoming full-blown welfare families that the taxpayers DO pay for. So, in fact, the entire scenario I specified IS repeated by the millions over decades.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
What has Trump proposed? NOTHING!

What alternative universe do you occupy?

Trump HAS proposed to invalidate the OBVIOUS misinterpretation of the 14th amendment (which was designed to accommodate native Americans) and deport these anchor families.

You don't LIKE that "solution." Whatever. But don't pretend that neither the Republicans nor Trump have even PROPOSED a solution.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:11pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

What do you think Abe is thinking when he does that eye roll?

"I feel like he just grabbed me by the pussy."

-or-

"OMG - How an=m I going to get through the entire weekend with this buffoon?"
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:14pm PT
And how would you like dozens of references to immigration attorney's sites stating things like, "The US government is extremely liberal in granting green cards and even citizenship to immediate family members of US citizens or those possessing green cards. We can help you obtain your green card, usually within a couple of months."?

There are dozens and dozens of attorneys specializing in accomplishing the VERY thing I specified. Once you have an anchor baby in country, the rest follows TRIVIALLY and has been for decades.
The underlying claim is not true. Moreover, hucksters looking to rip off poorly informed, poorly educated non-English speakers should not be cited as credible evidence of what you're claiming.

Your understanding of the 14th Amendment is laughable.

Also, consider that illegals in the U.S. pay an estimated $11.5 billion a year in taxes. Far more than your boy in the White House: http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/10/06/how-much-tax-do-americas-undocumented-immigrants-actually-pay-infographic
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
False.

I do not see where that link says mothers of children born in the US(citizens) get a Green Card. I see " and parents of U.S. citizen petitioners 21 or older" but waiting 21 years hardly seems a trivial waiting time...

Could it be that the websites you are referring to are scammer sites that take the money from hopeful people who have little understanding of the English language and laws of the country?

After noticing that small "discrepancy," I googled one query on the subject. I entered "can an undocumented immigrant get a green card by having a child born in the US." Admittedly, I only clicked through to a fee of the top pages, but at least according to this page - http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/become-permanent-resident-through-citizen-child.html

The parents of a U.S. citizen who is at least age 21 are considered "immediate relatives," and therefore eligible for a green card, allowing them to live and work in the U.S. -- at least in theory. A stumbling block for some parents of U.S. citizens is that they are already living in the United States unlawfully, and have already done so for six months or more, which makes them inadmissible.

Other issues to consider are that the child will be required to prove that his or her household income is sufficient to support their family and their parents at 125% or more above the U.S. poverty level, and that they must truly intend to live in the U.S. -- a green card is not a travel document, and if they stay outside the U.S. too long, the immigration authorities may come to notice that that is where they truly "live," and deny reentry.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:46pm PT
Okay, facts....

Clinton won the popular vote by right at 2% of voters, hardly "the vast majority."

Lots of people voted "against Trump" in the same way that lots of voters voted "against Clinton," neither of which could be said to have SUPPORTED the candidate for whom they felt forced to vote.

Finally, the radical left libs (who seem to congregate on this site) are a tiny subset of Clinton voters.

Thus, for all of the reasons above, the echo chamber is NOT "the vast majority of voters" by ANY stretch.

You know, "facts and sh#t."



55-40 disapproval to approval. Have fun spinning that,

dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:48pm PT

Only Breitbart reports it, but, of course, Breitbart is "fake news." LOL



It's as genuine as "Pravda." But you so smart, you know that.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 03:55pm PT
Could it be that the websites you are referring to are scammer sites that take the money from hopeful people who have little understanding of the English language and laws of the country?

This very well could be, although they exist by the hundreds, which makes one wonder how that many attorneys (having passed the bar, etc.) are operating what amounts to scam sites.

The more likely explanation is that they know loopholes that have worked for decades, despite the literal text of the law. For example, the LAW says all kinds of things that sanctuary cities defiantly and proudly ignore.

Here's an interesting site by an author who clearly believes that "anchor families" are in insignificant, if not irrelevant, part of the "immigration problem."

http://cis.org/north/anchor-baby-mechanisms

He notes a "loophole" that has indeed been employed countless times, particularly in California:

much more important is the hidden, undocumented, and uncounted influence of the presence of a U.S.-citizen child in the household of an illegal alien; officials are less likely to deport the parent of such a child than they are to deport an alien who is otherwise similar, but childless.

He concludes: "As Jon Feere has pointed out in a recent CIS Backgrounder on birthright citizenship, 'family-sponsored immigration accounts for most of the nation's growth in immigration levels. Of the 1,130,818 immigrants who were granted legal permanent residency in 2009, a total of 747,413 (or, 66.1 percent) were family-sponsored immigrants. A change to U.S. immigration laws in the late 1950s – one that allowed for the admission of extended family members outside the nuclear family – resulted in the average annual flow increasing from 250,000 then, to over 1 million today. This number continues to rise every year because of the ever-expanding migration chains that operate independently of any economic downturns or labor needs. Although automatic and universal birthright citizenship is not the only contributor to chain migration, ending it would prevent some of this explosive growth.'"

Note what us-immigration.com says: "Nonimmigrants, who give birth to children in the U.S., believe that their children will immediately be able to sponsor them for permanent residence. But that is not true. Such nonimmigrant parents of U.S. born children will need to wait until their children turn 21 to get a chance to get green cards in the U.S. Until then, they must maintain their non-immigrant status. Falling out of status would prevent them from obtaining green cards in the U.S."

What, exactly, would "maintain their non-immigrant status" mean???

Simply this: Don't get caught and deported until your kid turns 21, at which point you CAN trivially apply for and get a green card.

So, the attorney sites we've been referencing could well be telling this very thing to their potential clients, while not being fraudulent in saying that they can get the parents green cards within months.

The point remains: Anchor babies do exactly what the phrase says, "anchor" at least the mother in the country (not genuinely subject to any risk of deportation) until the child (or another family member who happens to become legal) can get them a green card. Meanwhile, the kid is a citizen and enjoys EVERY freebie available, because the family cannot support him/her/cis/ze/whatever. Once there is any anchored family member, the subsequent green card is forthcoming.

And this sort of thing does happen hundreds of thousands of time each year, and it has been for decades.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:00pm PT
55-40 disapproval to approval. Have fun spinning that

Easy!

The Obumbalator enjoyed those sorts of ratings for a LONG time, repeatedly, spanning multiple quarters multiple years.

HE helped the electorate become more quickly disillusioned. It took most of them over a year to FINALLY tumble to the fact that "hope and change" were not in the offing, which is how long it took his numbers to reach this very level. It happens faster for His Hairness because people want to see more faster, given their hope for change. Thanks for that, Obama.

They are all liars and cheats. We're all catching onto this fact faster.

Like Obama, Trump's rating will fluctuate over time. And, in the end, it's irrelevant. We're not a democracy. The finger-to-the-wind popularity rating has nothing to do with governance.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
It's as genuine as "Pravda." But you so smart, you know that.

So, are you flatly denying Breitbart's reporting of this matter?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:07pm PT
Trump sounded pretty drained talking with Trudeau today. I think he grossly underestimated what it takes to be POTUS. You can't run the country by tweet and poorly conceived and executed proclamation. He may resign before he is impeached.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:10pm PT
Madbolter has escaped and has replaced the impostor who was posting the marginally readable screed. WOT is back
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:14pm PT
Wall Of TRUMP!!



TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
Happie beat me to it, unless waiting 21 years is trivial.

I do however stand corrected that Trump proposed doing "something" about this, even if his proposal contained no practical details on how he would deal with a dilemma that is not nearly as simple as he or MB1 would pretend. Neither is it the huge problem they pretend.

Immigration is one area where I agree with Trump's basic premise, i.e. that the current state of immigration law is unacceptable, and that neither party has the political will to change the status quo because of their vested financial or demographic interests. Beyond that, we share little in terms of solutions. His wall is a joke, as is rounding up 20 million illegals, or expecting them to go back on their own.

Illegal immigration is not a problem in itself, the problem is the lack of legal immigration, the absurd prioritization policies for visas and the lack of political will to prosecute employers. Maybe soon we can add delays from "extreme vetting" to the barriers to legal immigration. The political posturing of "no amnesty" as a racist cover from the right and "path to citizenship" for future votes on the left is frustrating genuine attempts to fix what little is actually wrong.

TE





Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 13, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
Totally agree tradEddie. the answer is somewhere in the middle

Without illegal immigration we would be at negative population growth. Anyone who think that is a good thing might want to do some research on countries that have "achieved" that.

Let me give you a hint, as more and more of us go on social security tax revenues will decrease, we need fresh meat to finance social security.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 05:18pm PT
WOT is back

You call any of what I've written here a "WOT," and you're just weak. Learn to read well-crafted paragraphs with comprehension, and you'll be just fine. Otherwise, the failing is yours.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 13, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
going to be trouble

well you have got that part correct
Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 06:41pm PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 06:50pm PT
Madbolter - I read the link you posted from CIS, but it's still a far, far, cry from "a trivial matter."

The "loophole" of a mother simply believing she's good to go when by law she is simply at the mercy of an immigration officer? While it may very well be that for decades there have been officers who can't be so cold they would make a parent choose between taking their child, born and growing up in this country and knowing no other, along with them to a life of poverty and crime, and leaving that child behind to cope without them..... wow. And imagine the horror of that ill-informed mother who honestly DID believe she was "legal," to find out she's "going back." Even the ones who knew the score, and spent all those years in fear of being found out, because they knew the truth of the matter - what kind of situation must a person be running from that such a risk was a better deal for them? HOW can you possibly wish that on someone? Thank GOD for those kind people over the years.

I don't know about you, but I take a stance that life is an abundant paradise. My life motto is Burrough's (paraphrased)quote of "Leap and the net appears." I share willingly and generously of that which I have, because I do believe I will be taken care of. I once had an AA sponsor who, when I was going through a period of "life stress anxiety" which had me spinning and losing traction on the day to day actions needed to make progress, gave me a tool for coping. You (and others!) might find it useful for yourself when fretting over the fears there "won't be enough" for you.

That tool is to stop and ask yourself this question: Do I have what I need RIGHT now?"

It's as simple as that. Not "Do I have what I need to retire?" or "Do I have what I need for the first of next month when rent/mortgage/car payment/whatever is due?" And not "Do I have what I need in five hours, at dinnertime?"

Do. I. Have. What. I. Need. Right. Now.

I have found that life is quite mysterious and interesting in it's ability to provide. I get orders for jewelry when I am feeling sort of slim in the wallet. Someone pays me back on a loan fr years back. I find a five in my jacket pocket I must have forgotten was there. I find a twenty blowing down the sidewalk(I have! I even found a hundred and twenty one time.)

Sure there are times when I am rummaging through my food bun thinking I have no meal and it's surprising how necessity is the mother of invention and those concoctions end up tasting pretty damned good.

Can you actually say that you have really ever "gone without" because some undocumented mother slipped through the cracks in the system? Can you even say that(honestly) even though "thousands," as you mentioned, have slipped through the cracks?


thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 13, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
I mean those undocumenteds shat on his cords, eh?
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 06:54pm PT
So, are you flatly denying Breitbart's reporting of this matter?


Yes, until corroborated. It's the mouthpiece of a god damned liar, Donald trump. I don't believe those lying loathesome pukes' propaganda for one minute.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:12pm PT
House of Cards starts to fall...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/michael-flynn-justice-department-warning/index.html
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 13, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
FLYNN HAD A SHORT TENURE.

TURNS OUT SCROTUS ISN'T GOD AFTER ALL!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:10pm PT
Madbolter - I read the link you posted from CIS, but it's still a far, far, cry from "a trivial matter."

Well, opinions vary. To me, "trivial" means "nothing's gonna hinder it." For the average anchor family, the skids are greased for "success." By the millions, they're gonna pull it off.

The "loophole" of a mother simply believing she's good to go when by law she is simply at the mercy of an immigration officer?

Historically speaking, it's clear that they've been merciful indeed. Since 1980, at least three different sweeping amnesty programs have documented tens of millions of illegal aliens, waving a magic wand over them to vindicate their willingness to just break the law "long enough."

And in large swaths of the nation, "sanctuary" locations bend over backwards to support and sustain the "situation" of "immigrants" who are "undocumented" (SO many euphemisms for "illegal alien"). Since 1980, it has indeed been "trivial" for illegals to land here and find a path to a green card.

While it may very well be that for decades there have been officers who can't be so cold they would make a parent choose between taking their child, born and growing up in this country and knowing no other, along with them to a life of poverty and crime, and leaving that child behind to cope without them..... wow.

And there it is, the liberal go-to argument: "We can't be so 'cold' as to enforce the law."

Well, amazingly, we enforce the law in all sorts of other "cold" ways, and we tear apart families all the time to enforce the law.

Furthermore, tearing families apart is not the only or even primary alternative. Deport them all. Entire families. Or, eliminate the welfare state. Have it either way; you should NOT presume both. I'm happy with either approach.

But liberals want BOTH to have wide-open borders AND a welfare state.

But THAT, in turn, presumed the liberal go-to myth: Money grows on trees. California is upwards of 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars in debt, the USA is pushing 20. But, you know, money grows on trees. And liberals have countless ways to kick the can down the road with specious arguments.

Let's keep this point in context. The context was that illegals don't benefit from the welfare state. The CAN'T, so I was told. I've argued that they DO, and I'm not hearing any rebuttal other than, "Well, it's harder for them to do so than 'trivial.'"

That's some nit-picky verbiage.

That's, shall we say, less than compelling!

They DO, and by the tens of millions. And money does NOT grow on trees.

And imagine the horror of that ill-informed mother who honestly DID believe she was "legal," to find out she's "going back."

Wow. I barely know where to start.

First, I fail to believe that there is any appreciable proportion of these illegals that don't know they are illegal. If you could find one, that would be amazing in the extreme. Your example case is at best the tiniest subset of the group we're talking about.

Second, what "horror" are you talking about? It's simple: Go HOME! Make YOUR nation something worth living in. Don't come HERE as a law-breaker and then presume that your mere act of making it across the border entitles you to freebies.

Your appeal to emotion is a fallacious one.

Even the ones who knew the score, and spent all those years in fear of being found out, because they knew the truth of the matter - what kind of situation must a person be running from that such a risk was a better deal for them? HOW can you possibly wish that on someone? Thank GOD for those kind people over the years.

I DON'T wish it on ANY of them! I want them to NOT take any risks to come here. I want them to NOT even try by illegal means to fly under the radar!

We have a LEGAL process, and they should ALL abide by it. Period!

No risk. No "horror" in the LEGAL process.

Oh, but what about the "refugees" from a "bad" situation? Surely we must let ALL of them come on in. Right? Save them from that "horror"?

Well, then, let's quit pretending that we're being "humane," when really, if we were humane in the liberal sense of that word (like we OWE them to be here), then we should throw open the borders to everybody with absolutely no restrictions whatsoever and say, "Come on in and TAKE, since you have no capacity to contribute at the needed level! Come on in and immediately enjoy $15 per hour for doing what a machine can do for pennies. Come on in and enjoy taxpayer-supported healthcare, education, and EVERYTHING you could want (even free cell phones), because we OWE this all to you on humanitarian grounds."

Ridiculous. This nation has trickled off dramatically over my lifetime, as I've seen myself and everybody I know pay more and more taxes. Half of this nation is SICK of it. We don't want wide-open borders, and if you do, then, frankly, you are not in touch with ANY of the realities of paying for it!

And if you are not in favor of WIDE-open borders, then, frankly, you are NO more "humanitarian" than I am. The second you draw a line, are you drawing a LEGAL line. And the second you are drawing a LEGAL line, then you have to be "cold" enough to enforce it.

So, stop with the appeals to emotion. I'm "cold" enough to realize what's at stake and not be moved by them.

I don't know about you, but I take a stance that life is an abundant paradise.

Except that that's fantasy land. In REALITY, there are not enough resources to go around. As a liberal, YOU are constantly reminding us of that fact, as you bemoan global warming BECAUSE you believe it will reduce natural resources to an "unsustainable level." You don't get it both ways.

Global warming will increase the area of arable land globally. So, if you want a "paradise," then you WANT global warming! Of course, it won't be a paradise everywhere, but globally-speaking, it would be a huge net gain.

But you don't want global-warming, and instead the resources of the earth just keep dwindling everywhere. There is NO free lunch, despite your fantasy-land idea of one.

In REALITY, the taxpayers are about done with this ride. I have seriously contemplated just getting off the ride, retiring early (even though it would be a lifestyle hit), and saying: "I'm not paying any more for people to just live off of my efforts." MANY like me are serious about it. And the second I think that it's nothing more than a dice-roll that I'll do better continuing in my business compared to just cashing it all in, that is the very second that I'm off the ride. You can kiss a pile of jobs good-bye, and you can kiss my significant taxes good-bye. How many middle-class business-people need to think like me before the bottom gets pulled out from under your liberal "paradise"?

You'd better think LONG and HARD about how much your policies have been bleeding us.

In REALITY, we know all know what theft is. And doing it on a large scale makes it no less theft. You libs' perpetual conflation between things like police and fire departments on one side and flat-out theft on the other is ridiculous. When my money is stolen from me to give to others directly (for cell phones, health care, welfare, etc., etc.), I am receiving NO direct benefit. I am "buying" NO goods or services for myself (as I am with fire and police departments, the military, roads, etc.). Instead, my money is just being taken from me to give to somebody else with NO return to me. I'm "buying nothing" with such theft.

And if life is so "abundant," as you say, then you should not NEED to steal from me to throw the borders WIDE open to everybody who wants to fasten to the teat! Just tap into that fabled "abundance" and leave mine alone. How about that? Let's call the bluff on your "paradise." If "the universe" is so liberal, then quit stealing from me, and just promise those that used to be living off of MY money that "the universe will supply."

Oh, but wait! The illegals are HERE because THERE the universe was not supplying. THERE they lived in "horror." But, what's the difference between THERE and HERE? Well, simply and flatly, HERE are people that are FORCED to pay for them to have freebies that they can't get THERE.

So, in your liberal fantasy, the "plenty" is nothing more than funds you've STOLEN from others. And WE are sick of funding your liberal fantasy-land.

My life motto is Burrough's (paraphrased)quote of "Leap and the net appears."

Must be nice to live in the liberal fantasy-land, where we the taxpayers have to BE your safety net.

I now better understand the hysterical weeping, literally weeping and wailing, when Trump was elected. The libs suddenly realized that this guy just MIGHT destroy the myth of the infinite safety net. Who knows if he WILL, but, you know, "hope and change" and all that. At least you have to face the THREAT that he just might, and then the free ride is over.

I share willingly and generously of that which I have, because I do believe I will be taken care of.

I've issued this challenge before, and I'll reiterate it now. I'll post redacted tax returns, if you will. I can PROVE, and I will, that I'm in the top 1% of charitable givers. I'm not the "selfish bastard" that I get cast as when I talk about how "cold" I am. I GIVE, and I do far, far more than over 95% of other people in this nation.

So, if you're so "giving," then prove it. EVERY lib I know talks the talk, with other people's money! When's the last time you didn't buy something you really wanted or needed SO THAT you could give that money directly to somebody else? MOST libs have no concept of that. If you're different, then, seriously, good on you.

But none of that provides support for institutionalize THEFT in order to grease the skids for illegals. Period. I give far more than most, but I'm sick of being STOLEN from on top of it.

I once had an AA sponsor who, when I was going through a period of "life stress anxiety" which had me spinning and losing traction on the day to day actions needed to make progress, gave me a tool for coping. You (and others!) might find it useful for yourself when fretting over the fears there "won't be enough" for you. That tool is to stop and ask yourself this question: Do I have what I need RIGHT now?"

None of what you're saying justifies institutionalized theft to support illegals. Period. If you're content with your life, then good on you. Great life philosophy, although it really doesn't cohere with running a business.

Unlike you, I don't want the government telling me what I "need" and what I don't.

I don't want the government telling me that I must pay yet more tax, so that I literally do not have enough to hire somebody else. That's more work for me, more long hours, and one less JOB this nation has as a nation.

I don't want the government stealing from me to give to a "more needy" person, according to THEIR assessment of "need." I'll choose that for myself, and you can "keep the change."

It's as simple as that. Not "Do I have what I need to retire?" or "Do I have what I need for the first of next month when rent/mortgage/car payment/whatever is due?" And not "Do I have what I need in five hours, at dinnertime?" Do. I. Have. What. I. Need. Right. Now.

Sorry, but that's a pile of Pollyanna BS. It's equivalent to saying, "I don't need to 'stress' about retirement or even the oil change that's coming up. NO worries! 'Somehow' it will happen, and if it doesn't, there's going to be this societal safety net to just 'take care' of 'everything.'"

The taxpayers are sick of being the ever-increasing safety net for an ever-increasing number of "recipients."

Money does NOT grow on trees! It's a BASIC principle that libs literally do not understand. If you want to give money to somebody who has not earned it, then you MUST steal it from somebody who has earned it.

So, you start playing with property laws, as if you have ANY right to pretend that you know who should have a legal right to this and who should have a legal right to that. It's absurd.

And meanwhile, it's the MIDDLE class that gets screwed. Always. We're the people that actually do EARN every dollar we have. We're the ones that stay up until 3am night after night to see to it that our business grows rather than the required work just not getting done. We're the ones who pay and pay and pay, and yet somehow we're never the ones who are "entitled" to the "subsidies" and "kick-backs." We're in the MIDDLE, by the tens of millions, so we get screwed above and below. I have NO sympathy for either.

And the last thing that's gonna fly is opening the floodgates to more illegals to take yet more as part of an ever-increasing lower class. That's no "paradise." That's just bringing the "horror" to more and more people, particularly people who DID plan and scrimp and save and do their best to "get ahead," while the liberal "paradise" keeps taking and taking and taking. Lowest common denominator. That is the liberal "paradise."

I have found that life is quite mysterious and interesting in it's ability to provide. I get orders for jewelry when I am feeling sort of slim in the wallet. Someone pays me back on a loan fr years back. I find a five in my jacket pocket I must have forgotten was there. I find a twenty blowing down the sidewalk(I have! I even found a hundred and twenty one time.)

Do you REALLY think that this "mystery" is how to run a nation?

I'm being deadly serious in my question, because I'm seriously trying to find out how basically rational the person is I'm responding to.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that as a nation we should say, "Hey, EVERYBODY, come on in and join the party, regardless of what you can contribute! Somehow, mysteriously, it's all gonna work out."

Do you REALLY believe that???

If not, then your "argument" is just more appeal to emotion, and it's really, really thin!

If it is what you believe, then, seriously, we are doomed because more and more like you vote. In that event, I am JOYFUL that perhaps, hopefully, Trump can be a SLAP upside your faces and something of a correction before we inevitably slide off into insanity.

Can you actually say that you have really ever "gone without" because some undocumented mother slipped through the cracks in the system? Can you even say that(honestly) even though "thousands," as you mentioned, have slipped through the cracks?

Uh, yes, actually I can. Of course, you'll set the bar SO low that it's almost impossible to "go without," as if this nation was founded to establish a lowest-common-denominator and then ENFORCE that we ALL end up at exactly that level.

Can I pin things on particularly "some undocumented mother"? Of course not. There is no direct, obvious causal chain between some PARTICULAR undocumented mother and my "going without." But there are CLEAR causal chains between the ever-increasing welfare state and my going without.

As just ONE example, Obamacare has made health insurance not-affordable to the middle class. I'm just one example of tens and tens of millions.

I used to have EXCELLENT insurance that I was promised I could keep. I used to have a wide range of excellent doctors I could visit if I needed to.

Now, thanks to the grand give-away (that includes some number of undocumented mothers that got green cards and jumped on Obamacare at taxpayer expense), I no longer have that plan, not one even CLOSE to it.

Now, as I write this, I actually have an eye infection that I'm self-treating in hopes of not having to go to the doctor because my annual deductible is SO ridiculously high at this point (even though I'm paying MUCH more per month for "insurance") that any doctor visit is straight out of my pocket, even though I'm "insured." What a JOKE! So, I'll hope to avoid spending at least $175 out of my pocket. I'll endure the pain and watch the eye closely to see if my efforts are producing an improvement. If not, I will spend $175 that I wouldn't have spent before Obumble"care," and that's just one example that's immediately present of a trend that's spanned years, in which I've spent FAR more money to get FAR less.

So don't float that "go without" crap, as YOU and YOUR ilk literally STOLE decent health insurance from me and handed it on a silver platter to somebody else, WHILE telling me to pay even MORE to support their subsidies.

Meanwhile, I go to Walmart to find the fat couple and the two fat kids buying pure CRAP as food with Colorado's food stamps, and then they pay for a big-screen TV with a credit card. So, yeah, I just "went without" to enable them to "prioritize" their TV set over PAYING FOR THEIR OWN junk food! I bought either their food or their TV, yet I got NOTHING for the "purchase." That's called theft, and my eye hurts, and I'm sick of it.

Quit STEALING from me, and you'll find me a lot more sympathetic about illegal aliens. But as long as there's ANY pathway for millions of them to become citizens WHILE breaking the law, your appeals to emotion fall on deaf ears.

Now, feel free to bring on all the "WOT" moaning and vile epithets. Again, they fall on deaf ears. You libs don't live in REALITY. Plain and simple.

It's all GOT to be paid for, and WE taxpayers are sick of being stolen from.

Oh, again, if you can even come close to being in the top 1% of people donating a high proportion of their income to charity, feel free to take me up on my challenge. I can prove that my wife and I donate between 15% and 18% of our gross income to charitable organizations, most of which goes to direct care-giving, such as ADRA, which is one of the best "bang for buck" charitable organizations on earth.

If you're not in the vicinity of 18% of your gross income going to charity, then you have nothing to say to me regarding supposed "selfishness." So, frankly, shut up and quit STEALING from me and calling it a "paradise" that you have MY money to distribute around BY FORCE.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:11pm PT
Yes, until corroborated.

You're pretty dim.

Got YouTube?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:14pm PT
That'll give happie somethin to do sittin in her van, down by the river..
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:15pm PT
Holee hell - that is one remarkable Wall of Text! I like to read but....I just can't do all that in a sitting. Sorry.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
Hahahahahahhaahabaha BahahHbBB hahahahHHbaa
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:29pm PT
One down, and sixty million to go.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 13, 2017 - 09:50pm PT
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 13, 2017 - 11:03pm PT
No way Trumps ego will fit into the situation room. It is yuuuuuuge
dirtbag

climber
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:15am PT

Madbolter - I read the link you posted from CIS, but it's still a far, far, cry from "a trivial matter."

Well, opinions vary. To me, "trivial" means "nothing's gonna hinder it." For the average anchor family, the skids are greased for "success." By the millions, they're gonna pull it off.

The "loophole" of a mother simply believing she's good to go when by law she is simply at the mercy of an immigration officer?

Historically speaking, it's clear that they've been merciful indeed. Since 1980, at least three different sweeping amnesty programs have documented tens of millions of illegal aliens, waving a magic wand over them to vindicate their willingness to just break the law "long enough."

And in large swaths of the nation, "sanctuary" locations bend over backwards to support and sustain the "situation" of "immigrants" who are "undocumented" (SO many euphemisms for "illegal alien"). Since 1980, it has indeed been "trivial" for illegals to land here and find a path to a green card.

While it may very well be that for decades there have been officers who can't be so cold they would make a parent choose between taking their child, born and growing up in this country and knowing no other, along with them to a life of poverty and crime, and leaving that child behind to cope without them..... wow.

And there it is, the liberal go-to argument: "We can't be so 'cold' as to enforce the law."

Well, amazingly, we enforce the law in all sorts of other "cold" ways, and we tear apart families all the time to enforce the law.

Furthermore, tearing families apart is not the only or even primary alternative. Deport them all. Entire families. Or, eliminate the welfare state. Have it either way; you should NOT presume both. I'm happy with either approach.

But liberals want BOTH to have wide-open borders AND a welfare state.

But THAT, in turn, presumed the liberal go-to myth: Money grows on trees. California is upwards of 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars in debt, the USA is pushing 20. But, you know, money grows on trees. And liberals have countless ways to kick the can down the road with specious arguments.

Let's keep this point in context. The context was that illegals don't benefit from the welfare state. The CAN'T, so I was told. I've argued that they DO, and I'm not hearing any rebuttal other than, "Well, it's harder for them to do so than 'trivial.'"

That's some nit-picky verbiage.

That's, shall we say, less than compelling!

They DO, and by the tens of millions. And money does NOT grow on trees.

And imagine the horror of that ill-informed mother who honestly DID believe she was "legal," to find out she's "going back."

Wow. I barely know where to start.

First, I fail to believe that there is any appreciable proportion of these illegals that don't know they are illegal. If you could find one, that would be amazing in the extreme. Your example case is at best the tiniest subset of the group we're talking about.

Second, what "horror" are you talking about? It's simple: Go HOME! Make YOUR nation something worth living in. Don't come HERE as a law-breaker and then presume that your mere act of making it across the border entitles you to freebies.

Your appeal to emotion is a fallacious one.

Even the ones who knew the score, and spent all those years in fear of being found out, because they knew the truth of the matter - what kind of situation must a person be running from that such a risk was a better deal for them? HOW can you possibly wish that on someone? Thank GOD for those kind people over the years.

I DON'T wish it on ANY of them! I want them to NOT take any risks to come here. I want them to NOT even try by illegal means to fly under the radar!

We have a LEGAL process, and they should ALL abide by it. Period!

No risk. No "horror" in the LEGAL process.

Oh, but what about the "refugees" from a "bad" situation? Surely we must let ALL of them come on in. Right? Save them from that "horror"?

Well, then, let's quit pretending that we're being "humane," when really, if we were humane in the liberal sense of that word (like we OWE them to be here), then we should throw open the borders to everybody with absolutely no restrictions whatsoever and say, "Come on in and TAKE, since you have no capacity to contribute at the needed level! Come on in and immediately enjoy $15 per hour for doing what a machine can do for pennies. Come on in and enjoy taxpayer-supported healthcare, education, and EVERYTHING you could want (even free cell phones), because we OWE this all to you on humanitarian grounds."

Ridiculous. This nation has trickled off dramatically over my lifetime, as I've seen myself and everybody I know pay more and more taxes. Half of this nation is SICK of it. We don't want wide-open borders, and if you do, then, frankly, you are not in touch with ANY of the realities of paying for it!

And if you are not in favor of WIDE-open borders, then, frankly, you are NO more "humanitarian" than I am. The second you draw a line, are you drawing a LEGAL line. And the second you are drawing a LEGAL line, then you have to be "cold" enough to enforce it.

So, stop with the appeals to emotion. I'm "cold" enough to realize what's at stake and not be moved by them.

I don't know about you, but I take a stance that life is an abundant paradise.

Except that that's fantasy land. In REALITY, there are not enough resources to go around. As a liberal, YOU are constantly reminding us of that fact, as you bemoan global warming BECAUSE you believe it will reduce natural resources to an "unsustainable level." You don't get it both ways.

Global warming will increase the area of arable land globally. So, if you want a "paradise," then you WANT global warming! Of course, it won't be a paradise everywhere, but globally-speaking, it would be a huge net gain.

But you don't want global-warming, and instead the resources of the earth just keep dwindling everywhere. There is NO free lunch, despite your fantasy-land idea of one.

In REALITY, the taxpayers are about done with this ride. I have seriously contemplated just getting off the ride, retiring early (even though it would be a lifestyle hit), and saying: "I'm not paying any more for people to just live off of my efforts." MANY like me are serious about it. And the second I think that it's nothing more than a dice-roll that I'll do better continuing in my business compared to just cashing it all in, that is the very second that I'm off the ride. You can kiss a pile of jobs good-bye, and you can kiss my significant taxes good-bye. How many middle-class business-people need to think like me before the bottom gets pulled out from under your liberal "paradise"?

You'd better think LONG and HARD about how much your policies have been bleeding us.

In REALITY, we know all know what theft is. And doing it on a large scale makes it no less theft. You libs' perpetual conflation between things like police and fire departments on one side and flat-out theft on the other is ridiculous. When my money is stolen from me to give to others directly (for cell phones, health care, welfare, etc., etc.), I am receiving NO direct benefit. I am "buying" NO goods or services for myself (as I am with fire and police departments, the military, roads, etc.). Instead, my money is just being taken from me to give to somebody else with NO return to me. I'm "buying nothing" with such theft.

And if life is so "abundant," as you say, then you should not NEED to steal from me to throw the borders WIDE open to everybody who wants to fasten to the teat! Just tap into that fabled "abundance" and leave mine alone. How about that? Let's call the bluff on your "paradise." If "the universe" is so liberal, then quit stealing from me, and just promise those that used to be living off of MY money that "the universe will supply."

Oh, but wait! The illegals are HERE because THERE the universe was not supplying. THERE they lived in "horror." But, what's the difference between THERE and HERE? Well, simply and flatly, HERE are people that are FORCED to pay for them to have freebies that they can't get THERE.

So, in your liberal fantasy, the "plenty" is nothing more than funds you've STOLEN from others. And WE are sick of funding your liberal fantasy-land.

My life motto is Burrough's (paraphrased)quote of "Leap and the net appears."

Must be nice to live in the liberal fantasy-land, where we the taxpayers have to BE your safety net.

I now better understand the hysterical weeping, literally weeping and wailing, when Trump was elected. The libs suddenly realized that this guy just MIGHT destroy the myth of the infinite safety net. Who knows if he WILL, but, you know, "hope and change" and all that. At least you have to face the THREAT that he just might, and then the free ride is over.

I share willingly and generously of that which I have, because I do believe I will be taken care of.

I've issued this challenge before, and I'll reiterate it now. I'll post redacted tax returns, if you will. I can PROVE, and I will, that I'm in the top 1% of charitable givers. I'm not the "selfish bastard" that I get cast as when I talk about how "cold" I am. I GIVE, and I do far, far more than over 95% of other people in this nation.

So, if you're so "giving," then prove it. EVERY lib I know talks the talk, with other people's money! When's the last time you didn't buy something you really wanted or needed SO THAT you could give that money directly to somebody else? MOST libs have no concept of that. If you're different, then, seriously, good on you.

But none of that provides support for institutionalize THEFT in order to grease the skids for illegals. Period. I give far more than most, but I'm sick of being STOLEN from on top of it.

I once had an AA sponsor who, when I was going through a period of "life stress anxiety" which had me spinning and losing traction on the day to day actions needed to make progress, gave me a tool for coping. You (and others!) might find it useful for yourself when fretting over the fears there "won't be enough" for you. That tool is to stop and ask yourself this question: Do I have what I need RIGHT now?"

None of what you're saying justifies institutionalized theft to support illegals. Period. If you're content with your life, then good on you. Great life philosophy, although it really doesn't cohere with running a business.

Unlike you, I don't want the government telling me what I "need" and what I don't.

I don't want the government telling me that I must pay yet more tax, so that I literally do not have enough to hire somebody else. That's more work for me, more long hours, and one less JOB this nation has as a nation.

I don't want the government stealing from me to give to a "more needy" person, according to THEIR assessment of "need." I'll choose that for myself, and you can "keep the change."

It's as simple as that. Not "Do I have what I need to retire?" or "Do I have what I need for the first of next month when rent/mortgage/car payment/whatever is due?" And not "Do I have what I need in five hours, at dinnertime?" Do. I. Have. What. I. Need. Right. Now.

Sorry, but that's a pile of Pollyanna BS. It's equivalent to saying, "I don't need to 'stress' about retirement or even the oil change that's coming up. NO worries! 'Somehow' it will happen, and if it doesn't, there's going to be this societal safety net to just 'take care' of 'everything.'"

The taxpayers are sick of being the ever-increasing safety net for an ever-increasing number of "recipients."

Money does NOT grow on trees! It's a BASIC principle that libs literally do not understand. If you want to give money to somebody who has not earned it, then you MUST steal it from somebody who has earned it.

So, you start playing with property laws, as if you have ANY right to pretend that you know who should have a legal right to this and who should have a legal right to that. It's absurd.

And meanwhile, it's the MIDDLE class that gets screwed. Always. We're the people that actually do EARN every dollar we have. We're the ones that stay up until 3am night after night to see to it that our business grows rather than the required work just not getting done. We're the ones who pay and pay and pay, and yet somehow we're never the ones who are "entitled" to the "subsidies" and "kick-backs." We're in the MIDDLE, by the tens of millions, so we get screwed above and below. I have NO sympathy for either.

And the last thing that's gonna fly is opening the floodgates to more illegals to take yet more as part of an ever-increasing lower class. That's no "paradise." That's just bringing the "horror" to more and more people, particularly people who DID plan and scrimp and save and do their best to "get ahead," while the liberal "paradise" keeps taking and taking and taking. Lowest common denominator. That is the liberal "paradise."

I have found that life is quite mysterious and interesting in it's ability to provide. I get orders for jewelry when I am feeling sort of slim in the wallet. Someone pays me back on a loan fr years back. I find a five in my jacket pocket I must have forgotten was there. I find a twenty blowing down the sidewalk(I have! I even found a hundred and twenty one time.)

Do you REALLY think that this "mystery" is how to run a nation?

I'm being deadly serious in my question, because I'm seriously trying to find out how basically rational the person is I'm responding to.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that as a nation we should say, "Hey, EVERYBODY, come on in and join the party, regardless of what you can contribute! Somehow, mysteriously, it's all gonna work out."

Do you REALLY believe that???

If not, then your "argument" is just more appeal to emotion, and it's really, really thin!

If it is what you believe, then, seriously, we are doomed because more and more like you vote. In that event, I am JOYFUL that perhaps, hopefully, Trump can be a SLAP upside your faces and something of a correction before we inevitably slide off into insanity.

Can you actually say that you have really ever "gone without" because some undocumented mother slipped through the cracks in the system? Can you even say that(honestly) even though "thousands," as you mentioned, have slipped through the cracks?

Uh, yes, actually I can. Of course, you'll set the bar SO low that it's almost impossible to "go without," as if this nation was founded to establish a lowest-common-denominator and then ENFORCE that we ALL end up at exactly that level.

Can I pin things on particularly "some undocumented mother"? Of course not. There is no direct, obvious causal chain between some PARTICULAR undocumented mother and my "going without." But there are CLEAR causal chains between the ever-increasing welfare state and my going without.

As just ONE example, Obamacare has made health insurance not-affordable to the middle class. I'm just one example of tens and tens of millions.

I used to have EXCELLENT insurance that I was promised I could keep. I used to have a wide range of excellent doctors I could visit if I needed to.

Now, thanks to the grand give-away (that includes some number of undocumented mothers that got green cards and jumped on Obamacare at taxpayer expense), I no longer have that plan, not one even CLOSE to it.

Now, as I write this, I actually have an eye infection that I'm self-treating in hopes of not having to go to the doctor because my annual deductible is SO ridiculously high at this point (even though I'm paying MUCH more per month for "insurance") that any doctor visit is straight out of my pocket, even though I'm "insured." What a JOKE! So, I'll hope to avoid spending at least $175 out of my pocket. I'll endure the pain and watch the eye closely to see if my efforts are producing an improvement. If not, I will spend $175 that I wouldn't have spent before Obumble"care," and that's just one example that's immediately present of a trend that's spanned years, in which I've spent FAR more money to get FAR less.

So don't float that "go without" crap, as YOU and YOUR ilk literally STOLE decent health insurance from me and handed it on a silver platter to somebody else, WHILE telling me to pay even MORE to support their subsidies.

Meanwhile, I go to Walmart to find the fat couple and the two fat kids buying pure CRAP as food with Colorado's food stamps, and then they pay for a big-screen TV with a credit card. So, yeah, I just "went without" to enable them to "prioritize" their TV set over PAYING FOR THEIR OWN junk food! I bought either their food or their TV, yet I got NOTHING for the "purchase." That's called theft, and my eye hurts, and I'm sick of it.

Quit STEALING from me, and you'll find me a lot more sympathetic about illegal aliens. But as long as there's ANY pathway for millions of them to become citizens WHILE breaking the law, your appeals to emotion fall on deaf ears.

Now, feel free to bring on all the "WOT" moaning and vile epithets. Again, they fall on deaf ears. You libs don't live in REALITY. Plain and simple.

It's all GOT to be paid for, and WE taxpayers are sick of being stolen from.

Oh, again, if you can even come close to being in the top 1% of people donating a high proportion of their income to charity, feel free to take me up on my challenge. I can prove that my wife and I donate between 15% and 18% of our gross income to charitable organizations, most of which goes to direct care-giving, such as ADRA, which is one of the best "bang for buck" charitable organizations on earth.

If you're not in the vicinity of 18% of your gross income going to charity, then you have nothing to say to me regarding supposed "selfishness." So, frankly, shut up and quit STEALING from me and calling it a "paradise" that you have MY money to distribute around BY FORCE.

Raise your hand if you bothered to read all that.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 14, 2017 - 04:51am PT
Well, that didn't take long. The wheels are flying off the wagon.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-flynn-20170213-story.html
Michael Flynn resigned late Monday as President Trump’s national security advisor, following mounting scrutiny over his conflicting accounts of contacts with a Russian diplomat and his admission that he had misled Vice President Mike Pence about the matter.

Flynn’s departure, which came after several days in which Trump conspicuously refused to publicly back him, marked another embarrassing setback for an administration just over three weeks old, on a subject that has for months given pause to both Democrats and Republicans — connections between Trump and Russia.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 14, 2017 - 05:23am PT
It's circus.... all of it. Walls, illegals, bathrooms, all background noise to cover the murder machine.

Nothing matters except the MIC and the bombing of brown people overseas. As far as I can tell, that hasn't changed. Made in the USA bombs still raining down in Yemen.

Killary would have attacked Russian jets. Now the new scary boogeyman is Iran.

A slight pivot, but the murder machine grinds on.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2017 - 09:12am PT
^^^^ That's the first thing you've posted that I thought was worthwhile. I outright laughed. Thanks for that.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Feb 14, 2017 - 09:24am PT
1956-
Adlai Stevenson, when told that thinking people are on his side, replied: "That's not enough, I need a majority."

2016-
Trump: "I love the poorly educated."


We've come a long way baby...
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 14, 2017 - 12:47pm PT
Madbolter, your financial arguments related to illegal aliens go away if we shift focus away from saying people are fundamentally bad and wrong for being here, and instead say employers are fundamentally bad and wrong for giving illegal wages and not withholding taxes. And we have a bad and wrong government that doesn't have centralized payment for baseline healthcare, funded in part by withholding from paychecks. Fix that and it doesn't matter how many illegals we have in America. Heck, all that money that would be spent on a wall can instead help lower the taxes!

We should have a meritocracy in the workplace, and if we breed people who are too lazy or too stupid to do the jobs, let people of the world come do them. America would become a disaster if we had to rely on our native-born workforce because life here IS too easy, and we as a nation don't have the wisdom to properly invest in our children to ensure our future prosperity. We don't have the wisdom to invest in and enforce universal high standards, we don't consistently address the obstacles that distract our youth from focusing on education, and we don't consistently address the obstacles that distract our children from learning self-reliance and will power and perseverance to overcome adversity. These are all family-specific things, but the consequences of not having a societal safety-net like the public education system to learn these things, is that all of society suffers when families fail in these goals. You can't hole up in a fortress and pretend it doesn't affect you, that you don't want to invest in it. Well you can, but it isn't effective in dealing with the problem that does affect you and everyone else.

Back to immigrants. This image of a lazy illegal alien stealing all your resources is a fantasy. Even if they work in jobs without paying taxes, you benefit by having cheaper food, cheaper housing, cheaper services. And stupid and lazy is a symptom of living an easy life- that is not the type of people who come to America. Maybe the second generation after learning how to be lazy and stupid from REAL Americans:) That is all the more reason we need to keep the flow of immigration open. Immigrants remind the rest of America what hard work means- whether it is through doing hard manual labor or through more intense focus in academics.

So the real problem is not immigrants who improve the makeup of our nation. The problem is businesses and employers who take advantage of our stupid immigration policies, make life more difficult for the immigrants, deprive them of their future social security retirement supplement while defrauding the American people of present income to the social security system and income tax system.... But this is all because companies (big or small) are trying to increase profits. So we taxpayers subsidize companies that want to pay as little to employees as possible while making as much profit as possible. If the business can't succeed without paying a living wage and employment taxes, then it is not a viable business! HTFU and come up with a better business. Generate something of value where people are willing to pay more than it costs you to make it.


Where is your indignation for this Madbolter? What about the philosophical indignation of a government and business environment that systematically creates a category of society that is underprivileged and abused so that other segments of that same society can have cheaper goods and services?
Don Lauria

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:24pm PT
At the risk of belaboring a point, I offer this:

I've survived long enough to have lived under the terms of Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Papa Bush, Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama.

I wasn't necessarily proud of some of them, but Trump is the ONLY one that that ever made me feel embarrassed.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
At the risk of belaboring a point, I offer this:

I've survived long enough to have lived under the terms of Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Papa Bush, Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama.

I wasn't necessarily proud of some of them, but Trump is the ONLY one that that ever made me feel embarrassed.

So you didn't find it embarrassing to learn that not only was Clinton getting his "Slick Willie" serviced in the Oval Office (or should that be orifice?), along with his premium cigar collection, by a twenty year old intern (or however old she was)?
And he lied his ass off until it surfaced that an infamous "blue dress" revealed his guilt?

Not even a little embarrassing?

Remember Bill and Trump used to be good friends--they seem pretty much cut from the same clothes to me.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
No, that behavior is not significant to running a country. It is a big issue only to irrational small minded people, hypocrites, birthers, deniers, faux spews, alt-reich, swift-boaters, McCarthyites, and tammyFaye fans.
Bedrooms are meant to be private, not the subject of neverending biased repuklican witchhunts.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
Madbolter, your financial arguments related to illegal aliens go away if we shift focus away from saying people are fundamentally bad and wrong for being here, and instead say employers are fundamentally bad and wrong for giving illegal wages and not withholding taxes.

Both are the case; it's not either-or. Both are violating the law, and neither should be allowed to benefit from doing so.

And we have a bad and wrong government that doesn't have centralized payment for baseline healthcare, funded in part by withholding from paychecks.

There, we simply disagree. I do not believe that it is government's role to ensure some lowest common denominator for society. Government's constitutional role as arbiter over interstate commerce concerns such things as anti-trust, price-fixing, and abuses on the part of companies that provide basic necessities, such as food, health-care (and its surrounding materials), utilities, travel, and so forth.

In that legitimate role, government has every right to tell health-care-related companies, "You will NOT make obscene profits on supplies, drugs, or procedures. We will closely regulate and cap if necessary your profits, and we will break you up if you are becoming monopolistic." Do THAT alone, while regulating insures, and health-care in this nation will be affordable to anybody who prioritizes it over, say, buying a new TV set.

Beyond that, government has no business in enforcing people to purchase that which they do not care to prioritize. Conversely, the taxpayers have no responsibility to "cover" those that do not prioritize paying for their own basic needs.

There will then be a TINY subset who literally cannot afford their own basic needs. For those, fine, I'll agree to some "safety net," although not administrated as it presently is. At present, some really raw numbers make up the sole "review" of need. Instead, your going onto the federal dole should be as difficult as applying for a mortgage! You will submit your bank statements, income tax returns, copies of receipts for purchases spanning, say, two years. In short, you will PROVE that you are genuinely needy rather than just have poor decision-making priorities.

Then, in THAT sort of context, hey, feel free to throw the borders wide open!

Fix that and it doesn't matter how many illegals we have in America. Heck, all that money that would be spent on a wall can instead help lower the taxes!

AMEN! Although, I've amended your "fix" somewhat.

We should have a meritocracy in the workplace, and if we breed people who are too lazy or too stupid to do the jobs, let people of the world come do them.

Sure, but how do you enforce that? Whenever I talk about enforcing people EARNING their money (you know, a meritocracy of earnings and possessions), people moan about how "coldblooded" and "selfish" I am.

Look, there's a basic principle: You get to enjoy ALL of your own consequences. Let's "enforce" that, which is easy to do because it's passive "enforcement," and suddenly government can get out of most of what it's taken upon itself.

America would become a disaster if we had to rely on our native-born workforce because life here IS too easy, and we as a nation don't have the wisdom to properly invest in our children to ensure our future prosperity.

You'll have to explain this a bit more. I seriously don't get the lack of investment. We've POURED mega-dollars into public education (of course, for decades with an increasingly liberal bent), and we've chastised families who were too "harsh" on their kids.

It wasn't that long ago that kids did CHORES! Many worked on the farm as hard as adults, and they did that alongside getting an education. Most worked from dawn to dusk and then did their homework. And those generations raised work-ethic kids into adults that turned America into a production and economic powerhouse that because a world power.

Now we coddle kids, and the idea of a "trip to the woodshed" raises howls of horror among the soft-hearted liberals who somehow came to believe that a spanking ruined a kid.

Well, you libs, you wanted a "soft-hearted" society in which "everybody's a winner," and you GOT the lowest-common-denominator thinking that pervades everything now! And the money you pour in cannot overcome the CULTURE you've produced!

We don't have the wisdom to invest in and enforce universal high standards, we don't consistently address the obstacles that distract our youth from focusing on education, and we don't consistently address the obstacles that distract our children from learning self-reliance and will power and perseverance to overcome adversity.

Again, you'll have to explain (don't be afraid to produce a WOT; embrace it!).

The "lack of wisdom" results from liberal thinking and relentless politics to influence every cultural perspective into one of LOW standards, nobody's feelings getting hurt, "tolerance" (falsely so-called), and this pure BS of "everybody's a winner."

This nation was founded on the exact opposite realization about human nature! This nation was founded by people who understood that some people ARE just stupid, some are lazy, some simply cannot succeed, some are just losers by choice and upbringing, and yet the opportunity for all must be equal. The liberal mindset has transformed equal opportunity into a continual effort to achieve equal results, even if that meant that the "results" had to be lowered to some lowest-common-denominator.

Throw as much money as you want at that mindset, and you'll still get only failure.

Furthermore, your phrase, "learning self-reliance and will power and perseverance to overcome adversity," comes entirely apart from the liberal agenda! HOW is a kid supposed to learn what you say in a household that for generations has lived on the federal teat? Where is "self-reliance" and "overcoming adversity" when every basic need is met with NO effort? I refer again to the fat family I recently observed at Walmart. Where is ANY "struggle" when I'm buying either their food or their TV set? Where is there any "adversity" in their grotesque obesity (that is something else that I'm paying for).

Where is any "enforcement" of "high standards" when I'm bad and wrong to even call attention to their obesity (that I'm paying for)? I'm "fat shaming" to say, "Look, chose ANY lifestyle you want, but don't then expect me to pay for it"!

Liberals literally do not WANT high standards, as everything they pay for and strive toward DEMANDS lowest-common-denominator thinking!

For example, HOW are you going to enforce high standards in schools in the face of entrenched teachers' unions (that liberals are committed to supporting)?

So, yes, please explain!

These are all family-specific things, but the consequences of not having a societal safety-net like the public education system to learn these things, is that all of society suffers when families fail in these goals.

And there it is, the core liberal inconsistency.

You don't want there to be any such thing as a "family." There are NO morals, no standards, no "better" and "worse" comparisons. At present, "families" are ENCOURAGED to be single-mother, with multiple fathers who are not living with the mother. At present, the idea of a father IN the home is not only NOT prioritized; liberals are COMMITTED to the idea that a "father" can be ANYTHING or nothing at all.

You have "masterminded" the utter disintegration of the traditional, nuclear family, and now we are all reaping the whirlwind. And in THAT context you turn to the public school system for salvation!

But YOU have owned that system for decades. Liberals have ensured that teachers' unions RULE over schools and school boards. Liberals have fought every standards-based metrics, seeing these as attacks on liberality in education. And you have systematically taught this "everybody's a winner" BS for decades, alongside TEACHING kids that the traditional, nuclear family is just "one approach among many." Now you spend more time frothing at the mouth about gender-specific restrooms, in your attempt to nullify BIOLOGY itself, than actually ENFORCE standards.

Are you prepared to tell John (who is a MALE) that HE is not going to advance to the next grade because he is not makin' it? Are you prepared to closely assess his teacher's performance? Are you prepared to take THUGS out of school and throw them into Juvy for disrupting the learning environment?

That goes to overall enforcement! Are you prepared to round up thugs and rioters and throw them in prison for the act of rioting? No, liberals have sympathy for thugs, as long as they are members of some arbitrary "protected class."

Liberals would have to have a brain transplant to be able to engage in the sort of "enforcement" it would take to undo the cultural damage liberalism hath wrought already.

So, yes, please explain this "enforcement" in practical terms. HOW are you going to ensure these "high standards," when you have spent decades lowering the common denominator to ensure that NOBODY can be "shamed," and "everybody's a winner."

You can't hole up in a fortress and pretend it doesn't affect you, that you don't want to invest in it. Well you can, but it isn't effective in dealing with the problem that does affect you and everyone else.

I don't know what you're talking about. Here I am, putting myself and my fairly public reputation "out there" in the face of frequent bashing and dog-piling. I've repeatedly indicated that I'm not "holing up" but am instead engaging in discussion. My posts may be lengthy, but they are thoughtful and seriously attempting to engage.

I've played the "drive-by shooting" game just to be a "mirror" and to show how easy (and useless) it is. But what you see in this post is WHO I am. I'd love to find solutions we can ALL agree upon.

What I fear, though, is that the liberal mindset is so removed from the basic principles I hold dear that there are no common premises. Things I once thought could never be called into question now trivially are! I had once thought, for example, that EARNED private property was indeed OWNED by the earner. But now it is PRESUMED that everything earned is really not owned, except by the grand collective that gets to decide by mere majority how that shall be disposed of.

If we can't agree on the basics of NEGATIVE rights, then I fear that no agreement can be had. The rest amounts to tactics.

I despise both parties, both "sides," because BOTH insist on violating negative rights. Both are determined to control that which should not and cannot be controlled. Both seek power for its own sake and merely trot out "morality" as the cloak within which they hide their utter corruption. Both wish only to TAKE, and they "give back" to their constituents ONLY to purchase votes and thus gain or remain in power. And MOST of what government now "controls" it has NO right to be involved in. Consequently, we spend endless trillions putting out fires of government's own making!

The solution can NEVER be to give government yet more control over everything! Get government OUT of most of what it presently does, let it genuinely DO what it really was constitutionally empowered to do (such as treat with anti-trust enforcement EVERY entity that has ANYTHING to do with health-care), and they you will see the market itself produce winners.

I don't mean a "no-regulation" market, as I hope I've made clear! I'm no "free market" person as most people mean that term. The government was designed TO regulate the market by ensuring against monopoly and unlimited profits, particularly in spheres of basic human needs. In the same way the government rightly breaks air-traffic-controller strikes, government rightly imposes caps on health-care profits and pay!

Back to immigrants. This image of a lazy illegal alien stealing all your resources is a fantasy.

It's not a fantasy. It's certainly not ubiquitous, but neither is it fantasy. But, I believe that you are right to focus attention on the majority of cases rather than the edge cases.

Even if they work in jobs without paying taxes, you benefit by having cheaper food, cheaper housing, cheaper services.

There is literally too much to say here in one post. The cause-effect here is not this straightforward, imo. But we can save that discussion for other posts.

And stupid and lazy is a symptom of living an easy life- that is not the type of people who come to America. Maybe the second generation after learning how to be lazy and stupid from REAL Americans:)

Again, too much to say here. I'm in general agreement with what you say. But I would also say that I have more direct connection with "those people" than virtually anybody here. I won't say more, however, than to say: As former executive director of a denomination that has over 50% Hispanic members (many, many of whom are illegal), I am more in touch with their perspectives and lifestyles across multiple states than the vast majority of those posting here. There are countless nuances here! Too much to say!

That is all the more reason we need to keep the flow of immigration open. Immigrants remind the rest of America what hard work means- whether it is through doing hard manual labor or through more intense focus in academics.

I agree! I favor absolutely open borders!

However, the welfare state has to go if that's what you're really committed to.

So the real problem is not immigrants who improve the makeup of our nation.

Absolutely! We're on the same page.

The problem is businesses and employers who take advantage of our stupid immigration policies, make life more difficult for the immigrants, deprive them of their future social security retirement supplement while defrauding the American people of present income to the social security system and income tax system....

I see where you're headed, and I'm in general agreement. But you still have built in as a premise that the welfare state is hunky-dory, if we could just "fix" this other thing that you call "the problem."

On that I vehemently disagree. THE problem that infects everything (as noted above) is that you cannot build a culture of self-reliance and excellence as long as you simultaneously encourage reliance on a "safety net." You EXCEL when you KNOW that there's no net! And then you encourage charity BY encouraging communities (not the federal government) to recognize the worthy poor (trust by verify!) and on a very, very limited basis provide very, very temporary help to get over a devastating hump.

And after all of that, Christ was absolutely right to say, "The poor you will always have with you." Frankly, you can't fix stupid, and you can't "cover" every bad choice, even when it turns out to be devastating.

But this is all because companies are trying to increase profits. So we taxpayers subsidize companies that want to pay as little to employees as possible while making as much profit as possible.

"This" is a bit vague and sweeping. I have no problem with profits, within the scope of government regulation regarding anti-trust and the public welfare, which is to say regulations against gouging "captive audiences."

"Too big to fail" is absurd! I HATE "the right" for their insistence that corporations are sacrosanct, while they encourage corporations to grow and grow by accretion, ever seeking monopoly, so that they can finally control the market and start gouging. And then, by definition, these corporations have grown "too big to fail," so they must be bailed out when they blow it.

They should never be allowed to BECOME too big to fail! That is one of government's primary roles, and it is one at which it has most dismally failed.

But within the legitimate scope I'm describing, corporations are RIGHT to seek profit!

Where is your indignation for this Madbolter?

I hope I'm answering that question. I'm JUST as indignant as the libs regarding sacrosanct corporations and the utter failure of government to do its JOB regarding regulation! But I'm also just as pissed at libs for insisting the government get itself involved in all sorts of things it has NO business in, which dilutes government's capacity to do its ACTUAL job.

Get government back to doing what it legitimately can and should be doing, and you'll see a freer market, greater striving for excellence, and genuine regulation at the level of anti-trust and reigning in obscene profits (and executive pay) in industries that service basic human needs.

If you want to be in such a business, you enjoy a HUGE benefit: You have a captive audience with guaranteed sales. The trade-off you get is that you cannot then gouge that market, and you cannot become monopolistic.

What about the philosophical indignation of a government and business environment that systematically creates a category of society that is underprivileged and abused so that other segments of that same society can have cheaper goods and services?

I'm as indignant about it as you are. The difference between us is that you blame the republicans, while the republicans blame the democrats. I see that both are bent on control over that which they cannot control, while abdicating those roles over which government legitimately CAN and SHOULD exercise control. I'm indignant about these very threads in which left browbeats right and vice-versa, while neither "side" wants to admit its complicity in CREATING the very problems it now decries.

NONE of you genuinely believe in individual freedom and the responsibility that comes with it. So, you wish to manipulate things over which you cannot actually have control, while failing to simply hold people responsible for the consequences of their OWN decisions.

Sure, there will be minimal edge-cases, but you CANNOT produce a homogeneous, classless society that has no poor and no obscenely wealthy. NO amount of manipulation can produce this result, so "equal results" is impossible. Yet, by trying to achieve that, both sides have punted on genuine equal opportunity. And, thus, both sides have their own versions of lowest-common-denominator, which is the enemy of excellence and high standards.

For those edge cases, let's indeed have a "safety net," but make it HARD to land there and difficult to stay! When the woman in that famous video with 15 kids says, "Somebody has to PAY for all these...," my answer is: "You bet! Find EVERY father and MAKE him pay. Get this woman out there working and meanwhile getting an education. Enforce compliance, and take the kids away until the FAMILY can support them."

And if you got real edge cases like HER that are determined to just keep pumping out babies, you ENFORCE "humanitarianism" regarding the kids BY putting the woman in prison, isolating her from potential breeders, until she has a fundamental attitude adjustment. What you DON'T get to do is leave her alone, support that lifestyle on my dime, and insist that I must keep paying and paying forever for her and everybody like her, while she exhibits exactly zero personal responsibility for her CHOICES!

There are "worthy poor," but those that are genuinely needy are relatively few and far between. And we do nothing like "enforce" personal responsibility anymore. In THAT context, open borders constitutes and ever-increasing disaster.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
^^^zzzzzzz...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 14, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
So you didn't find it embarrassing to learn that not only was Clinton getting his "Slick Willie" serviced in the Oval Office (or should that be orifice?), along with his premium cigar collection, by a twenty year old intern (or however old she was)?
And he lied his ass off until it surfaced that an infamous "blue dress" revealed his guilt?

Not even a little embarrassing?
That's embarassing yes. Unconstitutional, no. A threat to our system of government, no. Hostile toward those who voted against him (or for him in many case), no. Consorting with our communist enemy, no. I could go on for quite some time. Remember, the Republicans impeached Clinton for lying. How many times has Trump done the same the very short time he's been in office. I know you're smart enough blahblah not to defend his conduct.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
A threat to our system of government, no.

That's quite the moving target. Please define.

Remember, the Republicans impeached Clinton for lying.

Not quite. They impeached him for lying under oath, which is quite a difference. I'd say that a sitting president perjuring himself is a pretty deep threat to the integrity of the office, which in turn is a pretty deep threat to our system of government! Nixon resigned over less BECAUSE people (then) recognized what a threat his lack of integrity was.

The problem with partisan thinking is that it always maximizes the transgressions of one's opponents, while minimizing the transgressions of one's own party.

Both Clintons were demonstrably pieces of crap who significantly sullied the offices they held in various ways. So were the Bushes. And so is Trump.

We CAN demand (and get) better, but we prefer to stay entirely partisan in our thinking and defend our chosen pieces of crap as the "high ground" in the face of "the opponent."

But, I predict that the debate will continue to be over how many transgressions can dance on the head of a pin.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Feb 14, 2017 - 04:35pm PT
I regret that as I oft do, I managed to offend many people. Sometimes I need to bark at the moon to get things off my chest. The things I said were not intended as a personal attack on anyone. But in retrospect, maybe I made it personal when bad things happen to me. I will slaughter an olive tree then offer you a branch..... Im caught up in the chaos. Its my fault too.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 14, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
The problem the right has with governing is they have no experience with it. Their entire deal is obstruction and dismantlement - they don't actually know how to govern.

As I've said in the past, I see the problem with governing the nation isn't the federal government, it's the hodgepodge patchwork of mostly incompetent state governments. Me? I'd say abolish states entirely as an anachronism the nation can ill-afford.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 14, 2017 - 04:45pm PT
Madbolter, I think we are getting closer to a common understanding and compromise... I skimmed for now, look forward to reading and replying in depth with a mix of agreements and disagreements, but I better not commit 'til I finish more work!
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 14, 2017 - 05:44pm PT
I didn't realize until reading the story below, that Flynn was fired as a result of a leak from someone with access to signals intelligence reports of his conversations with the Russian official.

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/14/the-leakers-who-exposed-gen-flynns-lie-committed-serious-and-wholly-justified-felonies/

President Trump’s national security adviser, Gen. Michael Flynn, was forced to resign on Monday night as a result of getting caught lying about whether he discussed sanctions in a December telephone call with a Russian diplomat. The only reason the public learned about Flynn’s lie is because someone inside the U.S. government violated the criminal law by leaking the contents of Flynn’s intercepted communications.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Feb 14, 2017 - 05:47pm PT
The House of Representatives impeached him simply because they could after spending hundreds of millions of dollars hounding him over a BJ while Newt Gingrich (the Speaker of the House that initiated the impeachment vote) himself was engaged with the same exact thing with an aide who later became wife #3.

Newt Gingrich is a serious sinner. Wonder if he worries about going to hell.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 14, 2017 - 05:53pm PT
That's embarassing yes. Unconstitutional, no. A threat to our system of government, no. Hostile toward those who voted against him (or for him in many case), no. Consorting with our communist enemy, no. I could go on for quite some time. Remember, the Republicans impeached Clinton for lying. How many times has Trump done the same the very short time he's been in office. I know you're smart enough blahblah not to defend his conduct.

Not defending Trump, only expressing some surprise at another poster's comment that Trump was the first US president he found to be embarrassing--I think he's got some competition there.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2017 - 07:16pm PT
Madbolter, I think we are getting closer to a common understanding and compromise... I skimmed for now, look forward to reading and replying in depth with a mix of agreements and disagreements, but I better not commit 'til I finish more work!

Looking forward to it. Any delay in responding on my part will also be work impinging on it.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Feb 14, 2017 - 08:22pm PT
Madbolter and NutAgain get right down to the core of the rot in our culture.
To sum up, I think we're between frame 3 and frame 4
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 08:25am PT
^^^^ Classic, Larry.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 15, 2017 - 10:02am PT
Chris Hedges interviews Matt Taibi on How an ‘Insane Clown President’ Played America’s Political System

How did an indecorous outsider manage to game the system put in place by the elite class and bulldoze his way through the Republican Party and into the White House? Journalist and author Matt Taibbi has a pretty good idea that he lays out in his new book, “Insane Clown President”—and that he discusses with Chris Hedges in this week’s episode of “On Contact.”

Hedges has an idea, too. As the Truthdig columnist and “On Contact” host puts it in the introduction to this show, “An image-based culture, one dominated by junk politics, communicates through narratives, pictures and carefully orchestrated spectacle as well as manufactured pseudo-drama.” Who better than President Donald Trump to capitalize on those cultural conditions, as well as on the breakdown of American institutions purportedly charged with safeguarding democracy?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Feb 15, 2017 - 10:50am PT
‘Insane Clown President’ Played America’s Political System
I believe you mean his backers, especially the kings of false news, Bannon and RT "news"
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 15, 2017 - 11:05am PT
RT is the entertainment arm of the Russian Propaganda apparatus.

dirtbag

climber
Feb 15, 2017 - 11:09am PT
Lots of smoke (Russian) right now, but still no flames. Might happen, might not. With the exception of Sen. McCain & Graham there are few Republicans who want to get to the bottom of this mess, and they control the congressional agenda.

So, lacking specific evidence Trump's standard practice of changing the subject is all he has. I'm betting he knew what his surrogates were up to but proving it might be difficult.

Maybe not.

The information avalanche is taking a life of its own. Yesterday morning and afternoon, the big story was Flynn's resignation and its ramifications. That is a big story, indeed, and in normal times would dominate several news cycle. Then came the Times' explosive story last night about the Trump Campaign/Russian intelligence connections. More stories will follow.

Trump might have made a fatal mistake by pissing off the intelligence community. They do not trust Trump to the point they are withholding intelligence, are now motivated to leak, and likely have a ton more dirt to dish. They also have enforcement authority: how many of the fingered rats would take a hit for Trump? And, the media is only too happy to keep digging: they smell blood, especially with the countless lies and cover ups emerging.

Congress risks owning this mess entirely, and its ensuing political mayhem. At some point soon, they might be forced to lead from behind.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 15, 2017 - 02:07pm PT
That's quite the moving target. Please define.
You clearly haven't been paying attention. Both Trump and Stephen Miller have expressed the opinion that the government should bend to Trump's whim.

Not quite. They impeached him for lying under oath, which is quite a difference. I'd say that a sitting president perjuring himself is a pretty deep threat to the integrity of the office, which in turn is a pretty deep threat to our system of government!
So now you're concerned about our system of government? I understand the legal distinction of lying under oath vs. just lying. However, when Trump lies about illegal voting (and just about everything else), that, coming from the sitting president, doesn't undermine the legitimacy of his office and, thus, our system of government? I for one don't believe that Trump would be any less dishonest under oath. I'll trade you Bill's one lie for the untold number of whoppers Trump has uttered.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 15, 2017 - 02:29pm PT
No my friend, they impeached him because they could (all it takes is a majority vote) and there is not a court in the land that would convict anyone of perjury or obstruction of justice for lying about a consensual and legal act of sex. This was not material to their investigation into possible criminal acts that simply were not there. You can lie under oath as long as it is about non-criminal activity that is not material to the main investigation which was into sexual abuse charges by Paula Jones. By no stretch is this BJ material. And that my friend is Republican style hypocrisy.

There was no Court of Law that found him guilty of any charges or would even prosecute this.

Above is basically a load of crap--it would be interesting to hear the poster explain his basis for thinking that he knows what the various "courts in the land" would do about much of anything.

In fact, we can get a pretty good idea of what courts may do about Clinton's perjury because of what they actually did.

The US Supreme Court suspended his license to practice before it, in anticipation of disbarring him. (He resigned before he could be disbarred--the old "you can't fire me, I quit.")
Same thing happened in Arkansas (he accepted a five year suspension in what appears to be sort of a plea deal to head off criminal charges).
He was sanctioned by the judge in the Paula Jones case.

Being sanctioned and disbarred is not the same thing as being criminally convicted. Nevertheless, Kingtut's musings that Bill's lying under oath was not serious and would not be punished by competent legal authorities is demonstrably false.

This liberal fantasy that Bill's lying under oath wasn't serious or didn't even happen (a lot of them still believe he didn't even really lie--he just gave "artful" answers--in fact, he lied his ass off) isn't too dissimilar from what seems to be happening with Trump supporters.

http://www.snopes.com/bill-clinton-fined-and-disbarred-over-the-monica-lewinsky-scandal/

(Edit--normally I don't think much of Snopes as a fact checker as it's unsourced and has a clear liberal bias. But if liberal Snopes busts Clinton, you can bet it all pans out)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
However, when Trump lies about illegal voting (and just about everything else), that, coming from the sitting president, doesn't undermine the legitimacy of his office and, thus, our system of government?

No more than candidate Clinton lying repeatedly during the email investigation, and you guys were just fine with that.

I for one don't believe that Trump would be any less dishonest under oath.

What you believe or don't believe is immaterial to our system of government, fortunately. Get him under oath, and then we'll talk about the results.

I'll trade you Bill's one lie for the untold number of whoppers Trump has uttered.

Trade all you want. A sitting president perjuring himself is in fact a crime. Lying is not a crime.

You set the bar wherever it pleases you. Fortunately, what pleases you or doesn't is totally irrelevant to the laws of the land and our system of government. Thus, your claims about Trump undermining our system of government are mere opinion on your part. Irrelevant to the facts.

You have the right to your opinions and the right to express them. But stating them as actual fact is just wishful thinking... again, your right, but not very compelling to others that don't already share your opinions.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 15, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
Look for him to start a war.

Especially if it's an easy target like Panama, or Grenada.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 15, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
Flynn, gone. Puzder, withdraws. Bannon, pissed at Breitbart. Kellyanne Boozelizard, counseled.

So far so good.

#insaneclownposse
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 15, 2017 - 05:01pm PT
Thus, your claims about Trump undermining our system of government are mere opinion on your part. Irrelevant to the facts.

The fact is Trump put Sessions in charge of the DOJ, which (among other things) is supposed to act as a check on the executive branch.

With Sessions being such an integral part of the Trump campaign, the million-dollar question now is whether or not he folds to Trump, or investigates the Russian connection(s).

So far, Sessions hasn't recused himself and he hasn't signaled he will investigate. So if putting your puppet in charge of the department meant to hold your executive office in line is not a form of undermining our government, then I'm not sure what would be.


I was thinking about why I like the American form of Government versus the Russian form.

How about you Madbolter, what do you think are the pluses of the American gov't over the Russian way of doing things.
Do you think Trump holds your same views on this?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 15, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
Thus, your claims about Trump undermining our system of government are mere opinion on your part. Irrelevant to the facts.
My opinion is shared by a great many other Americans and people in government. The press. The judiciary. Even the Republican members of Congress have (reluctantly) expressed concern about Trump's conduct.

Related question: why are you defending his consistent record of lying? I can understand the desire not to admit that you voted for this horror show, but deny the obvious?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 06:26pm PT
My opinion is shared by a great many other Americans and people in government.

Apparently not in any way that has teeth in it. Billy-boy was impeached for perjury, not lying. That had some teeth in it. He was effectively disbarred for perjury, not lying. That has some teeth in it.

Where are the teeth in these opinions you cite?

The press.

No teeth. Who gives a crap?

The judiciary.

Whaaaat? Only in the case of perjury, which was the distinction I made, not you.

Even the Republican members of Congress have (reluctantly) expressed concern about Trump's conduct.

LOL... so now the bar is "expressing concern"?

Are these the same Republicans who expressed concern about Hillary's pathological lying?

"Concern" is yet more opinion. The bar, if you'll remember, since you set it, was "threaten our system of government."

You've said NOTHING thus far to show how Trump's conduct does so.

Related question: why are you defending his consistent record of lying?

Of course not. I think he's a piece of human-shaped snake-droppings. But, that's just more opinion.

MY point was and always has been: YOU guys cherry pick your "outrage." the Clintons (both of them) are and always have been pathological liars. Billy-boy under OATH. No outrage from the likes of YOU.

So, don't feign "outrage" now. It's pathetic to watch you guys falling all over yourselves to magnify every transgression of Trump, while Hillary was selling us all down the river to the mega-corps, with nary a squeak from you.

You demand Trump's tax returns but consider Hillary's speech-transcripts to these mega-corps to be a non-issue.

You are UTTERLY partisan in your "outrage," and I'm simply pointing out what a joke it is.

I can understand the desire not to admit that you voted for this horror show, but deny the obvious?

I'm not denying the obvious. I found Hillary to be a greater horror-show than Trump, and I still hold that opinion. As did the widest swaths of America.

Had you Democrats had ANY brains in this election, so you would have gotten behind pretty much ANY other warm body besides the Hillabeast, we would not even be having this discussion, because THAT warm body instead of His Hairness would be in the WH.

You cherry-pick your "outrage," and that is funny.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 15, 2017 - 06:37pm PT
Madbolter...I agree with you about Hilly being a Wall Street pimp but what about Ryan and the other republican corporate lobbyists...You trying to say they are not about big business...Really...? Nice try..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 15, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
Had you Democrats had ANY brains in this election, so you would have gotten behind pretty much ANY other warm body besides the Hillabeast,

We didn't have a choice
can you understand simple facts?
Millions voted for her to be the Primary winner, they loved her

one more word about Hillary and we will have to call 911 and send a wambolence

what an echo chamber you are, on and on for months now
Like it's our fault

No it's the people that voted for Trump, or voted third party, or didn't vote

and also the Republicans suppressing voter turnout

stop blaming the other side for Trump, we didn't Vote for Him..

you and they did, YOU are To Blame

You demand Trump's tax returns but consider Hillary's speech-transcripts to these mega-corps to be a non-issue.
We have the transcripts, go read them
we have no tax returns, we know for a fact he doesn't pay taxes and has connections to Russia
and hasn't stopped his connections to all His Trump brands

equivalent?
Not in a million years

He appointed a Goldman-Sachs banker as cabinet member!!!
What kind of hypocrisy is that?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
Madbolter...I agree with you about Hilly being a Wall Street pimp but what about Ryan and the other republican corporate lobbyists...You trying to say they are not about big business...Really...? Nice try..

You make MY point.

They are ALL liars.

They are ALL pimps and whores.

They are ALL opposed to what is in our best interest.

The WHOLE game is rigged and based on lies and spin.

But you cherry-pick your outrage in entirely partisan fashion, and you'll vote party line regardless of how crappy of a deal the party hands you. You magnify the transgressions of the opposing party and minimize the transgressions of your own.

You all want to FORCE-feed your ideas down the throats of others and KEEP big-government infecting every tiny detail of our lives. You just want YOUR force to be in force. And you think that your cherry-picked horror gives you some moral high ground.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:15pm PT
you and they did, YOU are To Blame

Yup, I did vote for him, and with everything I know today, I would again.

I begged you for many months prior to the primary election to offer ANYBODY but Clinton. YOU have to own your commitment to that piece of work.

And YOU have to own the FACT that many/most people who voted Trump, like me, voted AGAINST Clinton.

YOU ensured that the election turned into TWO horror-shows rather than just one. And if YOU can't own that fact, then I'm going to LOL when next time you make the exact same mistakes all over again.

You voted Clinton in the primary. I didn't vote Trump in the primary. I did my best to keep us back from the brink that YOU were determined to push us to. How did that work out for ya?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:21pm PT
"Dr. F," I'm not dealing with your back-edits anymore.

And your speech transcripts BS is just that. Clinton has released nothing. You yourself said that wikileaks is not credible, and they only claimed to release a couple of her Goldman-Sachs speeches. But, of course, even those aren't credible. Right?

Quit gaming. Either post links to her many years of mega-paid speeches to the very mega-corps that funded her or shut up.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
wow, that explains a lot

thanks
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:27pm PT
Thanks a lot Mad...I feel like a swamp peoples...
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:28pm PT



DON'T LIE DOWN WITH THE INSANE THEY'RE ALL MAD.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
Yup, I did vote for him, and with everything I know today, I would again.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
Would do wonders for your Hillaryitis...

LOL

No cure for it, though. It's terminal.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:44pm PT
READ THIS!

“We should not — and cannot — trust this man." A CIA vet on Trump's feud with US spies.

http://flip.it/hbMOCx
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
Norton, I agree. Madbolter's name choice is prescient.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 15, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
why did I vote for Mr Trump?

of course many reasons, but mostly because I felt he could best represent all of America

that his own life most closely mirrored my own, he could relate and look out for people like me

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 15, 2017 - 08:08pm PT
as if Hillary is relevant to the present....



oh and...BENGHAZZI111111666!!!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 15, 2017 - 08:58pm PT
Flynn, gone. Puzder, withdraws. Bannon, pissed at Breitbart. Kellyanne Boozelizard, counseled.

MSNBC has banned Kellyanne from appearing on the network. They accused her of trolling.

I wouldn't be surprised if Priebus isn't the next to leave.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 15, 2017 - 09:05pm PT
The wheels are coming off the clown car...The swamp people are licking their chops...
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Feb 15, 2017 - 09:23pm PT
I'm old enough to not only remember Contra-gate but the original Watergate as well. And I'm feeling the same vibes again. When this stuff starts to roll, we're going to see some real action at the Congressional committee level. Only this time around, Trump wouldn't have Henry K. to lead into the Oval Office to "pray for the Presidency". Before this is over, Donald is going to wake up one day to find himself very much alone in the dark at the top of the stairs.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 15, 2017 - 09:26pm PT
I see honey boo boo is back here posting

JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Feb 15, 2017 - 10:52pm PT
Before this is over, Donald is going to wake up one day to find himself very much alone in the dark at the top of the stairs.

I think this every morning at 3AM for DJT.

I'm not sure what the technical description of his condition is but I think it's something like "he was not breast feed as a baby"

Plus whatever that crap he's putting on his hair is not helping...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 16, 2017 - 12:56am PT
Just heard some interviews with some 45 fans in Jefeland. It's great to see the country is just like ST.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:04am PT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Feb 16, 2017 - 09:33am PT
#DemocratsTheUnAmericanParty


Curt
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 16, 2017 - 11:33am PT
"good people do not support fascism, bigotry or hate."...


No...

but "Christians" do...
Locker, that's the hardest thing for me to wrap my brain around. That there are that many people happy to overlook all the hate this guy spewed. I don't think you can do that unless you share in those same feelings.

I'm Christian (Catholic) but have always been leery of the political evangelical movement. To me, they're too willing to use their faith as a proxy for political power. We had the Catholic Church do that in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and it didn't work out too well, even for other Catholics. There has supposedly been a rift in the evangelical church between older ones who supported Trump and younger ones who couldn't understand why they would do such a thing. I think any Christian (or Catholic) who voted for that jackass does not understand their own faith. Judge people by the values they espouse, not what faith they claim to be a member of.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 16, 2017 - 11:46am PT
Christians seem to hate intelligence, education, caring and Minorities.

They have given up on empathy of others (The teachings of Jesus) and replaced it with extreme tribalism

What kind of God would want his people uneducated and disdainful of smart people?
Not any real God..
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 16, 2017 - 11:58am PT
Just watched that "press conference" or whatever it was.
This is not a man trying to hang on the presidency.
I paraphrase here;
"Did you ask Pence to discuss sanctions with the Russians before the inaugeration?"
"No, but if I thought he wasn't, I would have."

Where and when have we heard that before?
.
.
.
.
That is almost exactly what Nixon said about the watergate break in. I was in high school then. Ironically enough i was in Soviet Russia, specifically, Leningrad & Moscow, when Watergate first started to break.

We are going to hear this comparison more and more.

So I think what he's trying to do, what his ambition at this time is, is to be a bigger president/crook than Nixon!

"Nixon was a fine crook for his time, but nobody, nobody, does, presidential crookery, like We do! Trump crockery, is the Best, most virile, crookery there is!
Nobody does it better than Trump!"
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 16, 2017 - 12:12pm PT
Saw a transcript of the presser, I am in total agreement with one thing 45 said

"I don't think there's ever been a president elected who in this short period of time has done what we've done."
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Feb 16, 2017 - 12:17pm PT
The phrase "uniquely unqualified" comes to mind.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 16, 2017 - 12:53pm PT
Politics never attracted the best and brightest.

Ever.

Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:00pm PT
That is absolutely not true giving our founding fathers. And certainly Lincoln and Johnson came close to attracting the best and the brightest.
Vlad Pricker

Mountain climber
Alaska West
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:14pm PT
As posted on another thread

Russians. They are no different than anybody else. They are human with human needs and emotions. They want to make Russia great again after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. They have endured economic hardships, their pride was/has been hurt.

And Putin and his cronies saw this. Putin already had the background, training and connections.

He ostensibly wants to restore the pride of the Russian people while lining his own pockets and feathering his reputation as the supreme leader and the Russians (many not all) have sucked it up.

He is perhaps the world’s wealthiest individual, by some reports his assets are worth around $200 billion… that dwarves anybody.

He found in Donald Trump a kindred spirit. The difference is Putin is shrewd, Trump just a marketer, a face.

Do not kid yourselves, there is collusion between the camps. I cannot prove it but the truth will out.

UK defence minister Michael Fallon is correct in his assessment that “Russia wants to be a competitor not a partner to the West”.

It appears, at least to me, that Mr Trump has tied his ribbon, his scarf, to Putin, and I believe I am not wrong in that. Looking at his cabinet choices, Mr Trump has not drained the swamp, just replaced it with his own snakes and alligators.

Mr Tillerson, perhaps closer to Putin than either General Kelly or Donald Trump.

These are precipitous times. In my opinion, Donald Trump is betraying America, whether knowingly or not. His ignorance and narcissism cannot see through the fog that he is a puppet of outside forces.

Those are my thoughts and time will tell if I and others who have seen and warned against the forthcoming deluge of problems are correct. It appears many Americans (a sizable minority) have put their faith in the wrong person.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:26pm PT
Politics never attracted the best and brightest.

Ever.

is that right, "fear"?

tell that to Franklin Delano Roosevelt or John Kennedy

not to mention Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, that Abraham guy, etc, etc, etc
dirtbag

climber
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
Or Barack Obama.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:35pm PT
Jimmy carter was a nuclear engineer in the navy, a more prestigious job than fighter pilot. You got to be not only smart, but extremely level headed. Trump would have never made it in the military
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:36pm PT
Pericles comes to mind. But even the best minds succumb to the twin temptations of pride and power. What's that Aristotle says about the "tragic flaw" in human character that gets amplified by pride (hubris), leading to a "tragic fall"?

Have things really changed that much since the 5th century B.C. (except technology and weapons)?

All of which tends to confirm my suspicion that Trump is headed toward a meltdown that will make Richard Nixon's bout with phlebitis seem like a picnic on the Seine. Whenever you base your political career on an appeal to the resentments of the base and the vile, you're headed for an unhappy ending.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:37pm PT
Bigly interesting:

Greenwald: Empowering the "Deep State" to Undermine Trump is Prescription for Destroying Democracy

Really a very good read, you won't miss the time spent.


Here's a small excerpt:

Greenwald: The deep state, although there’s no precise or scientific definition, generally refers to the agencies in Washington that are permanent power factions. They stay and exercise power even as presidents who are elected come and go. They typically exercise their power in secret, in the dark, and so they’re barely subject to democratic accountability, if they’re subject to it at all....

Now, I happen to think that the Trump presidency is extremely dangerous.... And there are lots of really great ways to resist them,... That isn’t what this resistance is now doing. What they’re doing instead is trying to take maybe the only faction worse than Donald Trump, which is the deep state, the CIA, with its histories of atrocities, and say they ought to almost engage in like a soft coup, where they take the elected president and prevent him from enacting his policies. ...

Even if you’re somebody who believes that both the CIA and the deep state, on the one hand, and the Trump presidency, on the other, are extremely dangerous, as I do, there’s a huge difference between the two, which is that Trump was democratically elected and is subject to democratic controls, as these courts just demonstrated and as the media is showing, as citizens are proving. But on the other hand, the CIA was elected by nobody.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:41pm PT
Trump would have never made it in the military

Quite true. Didn't he have a bad toe or something?
He made a valiant effort to avoid STI's though. His own personal Vietnam according to him.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:44pm PT
Think Trump actually had "bone spurs" in his heels. But truth to tell, everyone got out of Vietnam from DT's social class.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
The best and the brightest wouldn't want the job.

Some politicians are certainly brighter than others but to say the "best" and "brightest" is the catch.

Perhaps two hundred years ago it was different.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 16, 2017 - 01:49pm PT
Quite true. Didn't he have a bad toe or something?

He had the clap...



The best and the brightest wouldn't want the job.

Now, is this quote coming from the "best and the brightest"?

Like in climbing, it's very difficult to judge who is the best. The best as what??

If you think those dudes aren't bright, then how'd they get the keys to the car.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 16, 2017 - 02:29pm PT
that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial, and will not be questioned.

That is exactly why there should be checks and balances. That no person should be king and unanswerable to the public the citizens.

That is the very embodiment of our republic, that is what our forefathers, the second man to sign the Declaration of Independence (in my family tree), wanted to avoid. Now we are being TOLD that the POTUS should not be questioned. Where in the hell did these people study civics, in the sewer?

Who is Steven Miller, what are his qualifications to be a senior adviser? And WTF, we cannot question out president? Where in the hell in the Declaration, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights say that we cannot question our president. That is why the POTUS is there for, a servant of the people, not a king. This is madness, some of the BS coming out of the mouths in Trump's White House.

Is this what America wants, a POTUS that claims he cannot be questioned, who thinks he is above the law of the land, who probably has never read the Constitution from the sounds of it. Who thinks his word is the final word, Who...I can go on and on and on about this gobshite called Trump.

Those who support him will not listen, and I am singing to the same choir as those who agree with me.

This will not end well for the US. Gawd, I hope I am wrong.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 16, 2017 - 02:42pm PT
Come on Trump supporters, be honest, if Obama's (or any president's) spokesperson said not to question the president, what would you think?

For f*cks sake, this is getting to be beyond a joke.

Couchmaster and EdwardT, you seem sensible people, sensible open-minded conservatives, what do you think?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 16, 2017 - 03:20pm PT
Trump is correct, if he looks in a mirror when he states, "The level of dishonesty is out of control".

Thanks for the Greenwald interview, k-man. Very good points about the CIA!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 16, 2017 - 06:58pm PT
So, I go skiing today and come back to catch up. What do I see?

ECHO

Echo

echo

Nuclear war now? That's what we're afraid of?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 16, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
Trust me mad. We enjoyed the sanity created by your absence.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 16, 2017 - 07:47pm PT
^^^ Cool. Then I'll leave you to it.

The "world's" much better when everybody agrees with you, so enjoy.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:04pm PT
Greenwald has some good points about if the deep state is trying to pull a soft coup that is more dangerous than Trump because he is out in the open.
Who knows what is going on.
The easy explanation is the intelligence services is just getting back at Trump for insulting them.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
Crankster...I'm intrigued about Trump blowing that Russian sub...? Any video...?
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
Come on Trump supporters, be honest, if Obama's (or any president's) spokesperson said not to question the president, what would you think?

It is so funny how all the Obama hater's cut The Donald so much slack . . . Had Barack displayed behavior equivalent to Trump's, there would have been crosses burning on the White House lawn, with asshats on parade.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:35pm PT
"Fine Tuned Machine"

Bwaw HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA ROTFLMFAO
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:39pm PT
^If Obama had displayed the behavior Trump is, people who objected would not BE being asshats!

I guess I have to fill out the Cafepress section I made with the "Libtard & Damned Proud To Be One" design. They are starting to sell - hahah. I think it's hilarious that the intended to be an insult term is becoming a badge of honor.

Of course, next thing we know, GOP'ers(what's left of them, anyway) will start whining that those who refer to themselves as Libtards are being insensitive to those who are mentally challenged.....
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:44pm PT
Hppigrl, the a-hat is a reference to a costume associated with the KayKay . . .K?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:50pm PT
^I didn't know that.. I can see "A" hat because the klan caps have the shape, but "asshat" kind of gives me the image of those stupid cheese hat things Packer fans wear to games.

From hence forward, when I see the posts from Cosmic, Madbolter, Jody and (are there any others left?) I am going to imagine them wearing a foam pair of buttocks on their head. After all, the Libtards have Pussy Hats - it's only fair.....
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Feb 16, 2017 - 08:58pm PT
Pussy rules!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 16, 2017 - 09:07pm PT
I feel so much safer that the mature manly men of Colorado have determined that the danger from a bunch of women and children---SEVERELY vetted---is just too much for our nation to withstand.

Of course, it's probably too much to think that they understand what, exactly is required to get past the vetting.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Feb 16, 2017 - 09:28pm PT
“The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles offshore right out of the water,” he said. “Everyone in this country is going to say, ‘ohh, it’s so great'. That’s not great. That’s not great. I would love to be able to get along with Russia.

“Now, you’ve had a lot of presidents who haven’t taken that tack. Look where we are now, look where we are now."

Soundbites for everyone in just a few sentences.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 16, 2017 - 09:35pm PT

We're well beyond any Trump-Obama comparisons.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2017 - 07:10am PT
Happiegrrrl, I googled buttocks hat and these were the results.


PRODUCT DESCRIPTION -

This is a dirty offensive design that makes one heck of a t shirt. It might be rude and disgusting, but overall it will make your people laugh. You can wear this design to a friend's house, parties, bar, and even during school, but you might need to bring a change of clothes if you get caught wearing this in school.

Popular penitentiary garb?

BTW what is Dem buttocks?


Butt mostly this theme,


Might need to design a buttocks hat.


Next I searched Repub buttocks and found mulititudes of ass shots and this,


Also of significance an article that mirrors the depravity of our current political alternative,

Big buttocks are back in the Democratic Republic of Congo

Evidence is mounting that not quite half of voters should have used a mental suppository.

What were you thinking?



Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 17, 2017 - 07:46am PT
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 17, 2017 - 08:57am PT
The "world's" much better when everybody agrees with you, so enjoy.
No. That's the pathetic thing about your posts. I welcome differing points of view. However, when they are based on lies, ignorance, racism or stupidity, I know there's no substance there.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:30am PT
After some thought(very little, but some thought) my Asshat design has changed from a soft foam construction, to being a soft foam construction that slips onto the average high school football helmet and is secured with Gorilla Glue(you'll see why later).

The foam portion is molded to give the appearance of the two mounds of flesh referred to as "buttocks." This will be designed to have the "bodily functioning" portion of the "asshat" pointed in an upward and slightly to the back position(you'll see why later).

The asshat functions whether it's wearer is actually speaking or even just having asshat thoughts. Generally, the hat emits a low-impact odor, which most people would identify as similar to a sulphorous smell. Depending on the thought, the smell might change to a "silent but deadly."

Actual words are needed for the odor to be accompanied by a sound, which can range from "Squeaker" (when defending a deplorable position such as Trump's opinion on Rosie O'Donnell), to (the full range needs more research and development work done).

As the asshat wearer becomes more engaged with their opinion, the hat goes from the Flatulence Stage to actually emmitting a physical material. It is a brownish hue, and ranges is consistency to one with a rather liquid consistency to one in which the hat wearer struggles to release, and which has a very compacted but "rugged" texture, to what can best be described as "explosive diarrhea." (Now you may understand the decision to include a strap on the helmet, which keeps the asshat firmly attached, and protect the wearer's head from "fallout," while allowing the asshat mentality to remain securely intact and ready to react further).

A cape will be available as an accessory piece(since the diarrhea may sometimes dribble instead of being sent away from the wearer of the asshat.




(That was totally spontaneously written, by the way, in one shot. I think it's a bit funny)



survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:40am PT
It’s crazy what we’re watching every day, it’s absolutely crazy. He keeps repeating ridiculous throwaway lines that are not true at all, and sort of avoiding this issue of Russia as if we’re some kind of fools for asking the question.

Really? Your opposition was hacked? And the Russians were responsible for it, and your people were on the phone with Russia on the same day it was happening, and we’re fools for asking the questions?
Shepard Smith, Fox News
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Feb 17, 2017 - 11:18am PT

Land of Confusion

[Click to View YouTube Video]
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Feb 17, 2017 - 02:07pm PT
Malemute, that is hilarious. This is proof that libtards will rule again one day, or at least retain sufficient power to create a time machine and send back a warning before it was too late... We missed it.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
Yep

Did You Know?
Trumpery derives from the Middle English trompery and ultimately from the Middle French tromper, meaning "to deceive." (You can see the meaning of this root reflected in the French phrase trompe-l'oeil-literally, "deceives the eye"-which in English refers to a style of painting with photographically realistic detail.) Trumpery first appeared in English in the mid-15th century with the meanings "deceit or fraud" (a sense that is now obsolete) and "worthless nonsense." Less than 100 years later, it was being applied to material objects of little or no value. The verb phrase trump up means "to concoct with the intent to deceive," but there is most likely no etymological connection between this phrase and trumpery.

Manure can be used to make fertilizer. Don't forget the nitrates.

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 17, 2017 - 03:53pm PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 17, 2017 - 04:03pm PT
TGT2 - Is that a chart you created?

If yes, please advise how you gathered your data. If not - please include a link to where it comes from. I'd like to see it with context.

Oh alright.... I'd like to see if it's from a website called something like "The KKK Way...."
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Feb 17, 2017 - 04:05pm PT
Interesting definition from Wikipedia:

Neo-fascism is a post–World War II ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultranationalism, populism, anti-immigration policies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, anti-socialism, anti-Marxism, anti-anarchism and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Feb 17, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
Media unreliable? One doesn’t even have to believe or disbelieve the media. Trump shows himself as a fool from his own mouth, every time he speaks or tweets. Wonderful material for comedians, but terrifying when you consider four years of this.

He’s simply an incredible narcissist and obsessed with his own image and welfare. He’s had to do a little work as President lately, and had to bust out of that confining job and get back in the limelight with a “press conference” which has shocked the world with his erratic, contradictory, other-blaming and just plain lying performance. But he thinks he did well. Now he’s holding a Florida rally of his base. Why? To feed his ego.

He can’t do without it. In the meantime, he hasn’t even got his ADMs appointed, and the government is in such chaos that if a real international crisis crops up, how would we deal with it? His MO is to shoot from the hip, without understanding how things work. So he’s spending time with press releases, rallies and Mira Lago or whatever it is and not doing his job.

I think he will be impeached within two years. Some Republicans, despite their kleptocratic mind set, are smart enough to know that their party won’t have a shred of credibility left if he continues. That would leave Pence. And Bannon, and….oh, sh#t.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 17, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".

Trump Tweeted today that the Press is the "Enemy of the American People".


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/donald-trump-middle-school-president.html?mc=aud_dev&mcid=fb-nytimes&mccr=FebMidMC&mcdt=2017-02&subid=FebMidMC&ad-keywords=AudDevGate&_r=0
dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2017 - 05:15pm PT
F*#k him and his assault on the first amendment.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Feb 17, 2017 - 06:28pm PT


https://whistlinginthewind.org/2016/10/16/how-fascism-takes-over/
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:13pm PT
russ is used to backing the loser...cubs fan right?

Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:21pm PT
Ummm.. Wrong "Wade".

And my God you've become f*#king tiresome with your stupid holocaust diminishing pics. If you really believe this constant posting of the same images is actually doing anything, you might want to rethink that. It only makes you look the fool.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:22pm PT
Mazel Tov on the circumcision!
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:39pm PT
so far Mexicans are slowly taking refuge inside American churches from ICE
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 17, 2017 - 09:44pm PT
**John McCain just systematically dismantled Donald Trump’s entire worldview
**
By Aaron Blake February 17 at 2:50 PM


John McCain is increasingly mad as hell about President Trump. And on Friday, he went after Trump — hard.

During a speech at the Munich Security Conference in Germany, the Republican senator from Arizona delivered a pointed and striking point-by-point takedown of Trump's worldview and brand of nationalism. McCain didn't mention Trump's name once, but he didn't have to.

And even considering the two men's up-and-down history and the terrible things Trump has said about McCain, it was a striking display from a senior leader of a party when it comes to a president of the same party.

In his speech, McCain suggested the Western world is uniquely imperiled this year — even more so than when Barack Obama was president — and proceeded to question whether it will even survive.

“In recent years, this question would invite accusations of hyperbole and alarmism; not this year,” McCain said. “If ever there were a time to treat this question with a deadly seriousness, it is now.”


In case there was any doubt that this was about Trump. Here's what followed:

"[The founders of the Munich conference] would be alarmed by an increasing turn away from universal values and toward old ties of blood and race and sectarianism.”
“They would be alarmed by the hardening resentment we see towards immigrants and refugees and minority groups -- especially Muslims.”
“They would be alarmed by the growing inability -- and even unwillingness -- to separate truth from lies.”
"They would be alarmed that more and more of our fellow citizens seem to be flirting with authoritarianism and romanticizing it as our moral equivalent."

That's Trump, Trump, Trump and Trump.

McCain continued: “But what would alarm them most, I think, is a sense that many of our peoples, including in my own country, are giving up on the West, that they see it as a bad deal that we may be better off without, and that while Western nations still have the power to maintain our world order, it's unclear whether we have the will.”

Trump has repeatedly suggested a desire to pull out of or scale back on international involvement and agreements. His slogan is “America first,” after all. And it's not just on free trade: It's also when it comes to things like NATO, the transatlantic military alliance that Trump has suggested the United States is getting a bad deal on and has flirted with not enforcing.

Then McCain invoked some of those close to Trump and emphasized that his message won't square with theirs:

I know there is profound concern across Europe and the world that America is laying down the mantle of global leadership. I can only speak for myself, but I do not believe that that is the message you will hear from all of the American leaders who cared enough to travel here to Munich this weekend. That's not the message you heard today from Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis. That is not the message you will hear from Vice President Mike Pence. That's not the message you will hear from Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly. And that is certainly not the message you will hear tomorrow from our bipartisan congressional delegation.

McCain then concluded with another direct shot at Trump.

“I refuse to accept that our values are morally equivalent to those of our adversaries,” he said. “I am a proud, unapologetic believer in the West, and I believe we must always, always stand up for it. For if we do not, who will?

Two weeks ago, you may recall, Trump suggested the United States didn't exactly have the moral high ground on Russia. Asked by Fox News host Bill O'Reilly about wanting good relations with a “killer” like Russian President Vladimir Putin, Trump demurred.


“There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers,” Trump said. “Well, you think our country is so innocent?”

Ever since, it seems, he and McCain have been on a collision course. McCain didn't fight back when Trump questioned his war-hero status long ago — perhaps because both men were trying to win elections — but the battle between McCain and the White House is picking up steam.

And on Friday, McCain traveled across the Atlantic to deliver a calculated, planned attack on Trump's entire system of beliefs.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 17, 2017 - 10:00pm PT
Trump the draft dodger questioning McCain's hero status..? Pathetic loser...Trump that is...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 17, 2017 - 10:02pm PT
Now if McCain would oppose some of Trump's trainwreck nominees. He didn't even vote on the Pruitt confirmation.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 17, 2017 - 10:06pm PT
um wrong russ..-edited for mean spirited deli smack-Enjoy your sportball victory..what else does a washed-up has-been have to cling to in their dotage? Not a Cub's fan?

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 17, 2017 - 10:09pm PT
Ken-Those are somewhat comforting words from John McCain. Thanks for posting that.

Unfortunately, after years of watching the patterns of these people, I'm afraid the comfort of those words is thin at best.

They all play roles- McCain and Lindsey Graham are the gate keepers. They are critical of Trump like two foxes, all in an effort to keep a wholesale exodus of the party by moderate Republicans and the military types. They are the reasonable faces of the party to an end.

Under their cover, party operatives like Ryan and McConnell work lockstep with the administration and freedom caucus to pass a Draconian agenda.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 17, 2017 - 10:21pm PT
Thanks for those to video's Malamute.

Here's on back at you. Best part is at 4:49

[Click to View YouTube Video]


While a resident of Aridzona I voted for McCain. I did so because I felt he was the better candidate. I've been much less of a fan of him since. But I saw something then. Maybe we'll see a little bit of whatever that was now. Or I could have just been really really stonded.


john hansen

climber
Feb 17, 2017 - 10:24pm PT
McCain was in Germany trying to convince our Allies that we will stand by them
Maybe he can lead the way for the republicans to impeach Trump.

I respect John McCain
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 18, 2017 - 12:46am PT


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 18, 2017 - 08:19am PT
I wonder why the "press" and "peaceful assembly" are specifically in the first amendment, not just freedom of religion and speech. PRESS and ASSEMBLY are specifically written. Thank gawd there were some really smart and good people involved. The press may end up saving us all.
And there are apparently 38% of us that are ok with the president attacking the best press in the world non-stop.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Feb 18, 2017 - 08:24am PT
^^^
The Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clauses are the first things mentioned in the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
dirtbag

climber
Feb 18, 2017 - 08:29am PT

Feb 18, 2017 - 08:19am PT
I wonder why the "press" and "peaceful assembly" are specifically in the first amendment, not just freedom of religion and speech. PRESS and ASSEMBLY are specifically written. Thank gawd there were some really smart and good people involved. The press may end up saving us all.
And there are apparently 38% of us that are ok with the president attacking the best press in the world non-stop.


We can't reason with most of those people. They are illiterate and live in a news bubble and love a strong man, freedom be damned. They are basically authoritarians. I wish we could reason with them, but we can't. We have to defeat them.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2017 - 09:14am PT
The press may end up saving us all.

You mean the same press that pushed Trump constantly into the news limelight because he was good for ratings? Without the press showcasing the outrageous over the capable, Trump would not have been the nominee.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Feb 18, 2017 - 10:56am PT
Pence 2017!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 18, 2017 - 02:17pm PT
I guess the most disturbing thing, is the chaos that currently exists at the upper levels of the gov't.

we have at least 2 power centers, fighting over power, and using their various resources to trash the other.

the State Dept is effectively gutted. Apparently, the Secretary was told he could bring in his own team. when he named his deputy, the WH said "no".

there are apparently 1000+ appointments at State, and rather unusually, not even names have been submitted to the Senate. All of the previous office-holders were sacked on Inauguration Day.

What this means is that State is not represented in any meetings, gov't-wide.

There are no meetings occurring of the NSC, which usually meets every day.

We've been lucky so far. The world is quiet. This will not continue.

There has been one military action (that we know of), in Yemen. by all reports, it failed miserably. More to come.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 18, 2017 - 02:27pm PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 18, 2017 - 02:30pm PT

@realDonaldTrump

The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!




"If you want to preserve -- I'm very serious now -- if you want to preserve democracy as we know it, you have to have a free and many times adversarial press," McCain said in the interview. "And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time. That's how dictators get started."
"They get started by suppressing free press, in other words, a consolidation of power -- when you look at history, the first thing that dictators do is shut down the press," McCain said. "And I'm not saying that President Trump is trying to be a dictator. I'm just saying we need to learn the lessons of history."
Senator John McCain



@carlbernstein

The most dangerous 'enemy of the people' is presidential lying--always. Attacks on press by @realDonaldTrump more treacherous than Nixon's.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 18, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
http://time.com/4675860/donald-trump-fake-news-attacks/
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 18, 2017 - 03:18pm PT
I have been an attendee to the Daniel Pearl Memorial lecture for about a decade, and was scheduled to be there this year, knocked off by a bout of pneumonia. They have been uniformly excellent, and this one published in Time was no different. Brilliant thinking.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 18, 2017 - 03:33pm PT
I suppose it would be hard to make a tangential connection to this news story and our Unpresident, but I attempt to.

Headline: Russia plotted to overthrow Montenegro's government by assassinating Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic last year, according to senior Whitehall sources

Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/18/russias-deadly-plot-overthrow-montenegros-government-assassinating/

Excerpts:
An election-day coup plot to attack Montenegro’s parliament and kill the pro-Western leader was directed by Russian intelligence officers with the support and blessing of Moscow, to sabotage the country’s plan to join Nato.

The Kremlin has strongly denied any involvement, and the Montenegrin special prosecutor has publically stopped short of alleging Moscow’s involvement in a plot it has blamed on “Russian nationalists”. The country’s pro-Russian opposition bloc says the alleged coup was “fake”.

Sources told The Telegraph the plot appeared to have been constructed so it was deniable and could be blamed on rogue Russian agents and nationalists, but evidence showed it was inconceivable it did not have high-level backing.

Details of the conspiracy have been disclosed after Sir Michael Fallon, the defence secretary, warned of a “step change” in the Kremlin’s meddling in Western countries during 2016.

Sir Michael used a speech earlier this month to warn that Russia is “clearly testing Nato and the West” by “seeking to expand its sphere of influence, destabilise countries, and weaken the alliance”.

Alex Younger, the chief of MI6, also warned recently that attempts to subvert democracy by states like Russia pose a fundamental threat to sovereignty for Britain and its allies.


The article includes a video clip with Pence the Munich Security Conference pretty much trying to make Trump's BFF with Putin somehow sync with a desire that he(Pence) states that the US will stand committed to the EU.

Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Feb 18, 2017 - 03:38pm PT
Amazing that completely denouncing the free press gets defended, while just a few years ago a fist bump was railed against as a terrorist shout out.

The right is fully down the party first slippery slope. No integrity to be had.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 18, 2017 - 05:20pm PT
His meandering press conference was a fascinating view into Trump's mind. He just yacked without any real though over what came out.

When the press gets him on something that he said, he calls them fake.

I REALLY hope that he settles down and grows into the office. We are all stuck with him for 4 years, so I hope he learns to measure his words.

So far it is really bad. I guess Trump supporters like it, but I don't see how. He constantly brings up his overwhelming electoral college win, which was NOT the largest since Reagan, despite what he constantly says.

Pence on the other hand gave a great foreign policy speech in Europe today. Pence knows the importance of words at such a high office.

Meanwhile, Trump still gets out there among his adoring fans.

His Fake News comments are the most troubling. NYT, CNN, Washington Post, are all quality news organizations. Fox is right wing. MSNBC is left wing.

How can you have a guy like Hannity on the air and call yourself "Fair and Balanced?"

I watch the PBS News Hour, and it is excellent.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 18, 2017 - 05:38pm PT

Just get it out there if any of you feel the need
You simply need to learn to read
#@Garbelbase. . ,




So are you proud Tad? Didn't you & Mo throw away your votes? By doing so you voted for
The Pussy Grabber 'N Thief.
Good on you for seeing it the way you do

but that was a brilliant use of vote! It makes a mockery of your history of service !

I hope that it will stand to serve you well,
the ship may still rite it self ?
No one knows what's in yer future
I hope it doesn't cause the price of everything to double or triple.
If trump can he will see to it that the rubble reigns over the US dollar.
How's your conversion Van? Will it run on fryer grease? That might be a conversion to look into.



The whole version is better than the short clip., Shep - Phaux news boiye - Smith

https://youtu.be/fysSDYkhHlU


[Click to View YouTube Video]
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 18, 2017 - 05:41pm PT
^^^^^^^^

That was amazing. Fox News actually admitted that Trump was telling "untruths" every day.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 18, 2017 - 05:54pm PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 18, 2017 - 06:19pm PT
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/opinions/george-takei-japanese-american-internment-day-of-remembrance/index.html
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 18, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
Bump
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