Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 502 of total 502 in this topic |
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
|
Wody Stark was killed instantly in a fall yesterday in Real Hidden Valley on the Great Burrito.
Al Kwok fell about 70 ft and is recovering from broken ribs.
I'd like to thank the two that got Al down. The EMTs and the doctor that showed up within minutes The Park Service SB Air and all the SAR people that helped.
I'd like to especialy thank Ryan and Steve. I don't know how I would have dealt with it with out a couple of familliar faces around.
There will be plenty of time for analysis and speculation about what happened. Out of respect for his children, Tia and Woody Jr. please forego that for now.
Thanks.
Wendell
|
|
oldtopangalizard
Social climber
ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:36pm PT
|
I'm speechless...the worst day in the history of JT.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:36pm PT
|
Loss for words.
Just Shock.
Juan
|
|
F10
Trad climber
e350
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
|
That is some very sad news
|
|
Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
|
Our Woody? Is it possible? I am so sorry to hear this.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:39pm PT
|
Yeah. Our Woody. So sad.
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
|
Not Woody? F$#@!!!! So sorry...
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
|
Oh my God....I'm speechless.
Not Woody. Rest in peace, bro.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
|
The Woody Stark. The Joshua pioneer?
Christ, I grew up on his routes out at the Tree.
A very sad day indeed. Condolences to all.
JL
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
|
Rest in peace, Woody. And thanks for stirring shít up around here...
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:45pm PT
|
That is truly, truly tragic news. When I saw the name of 'Curtis Stark' in the article, the thought quickly passed through my head- is that Woody?- then I shook it off.
Too unreal to believe. My greatest condolences to his family, and to the many, many people he called his friends here on ST.
Please be careful out there, everyone.
|
|
crøtch
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:45pm PT
|
Oh man, that hurts. My condolences to all his family, friends, and ropemates. A sad day for anyone who has set boot to Joshua Tree stone.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:47pm PT
|
oh man, I'm stunned.
Condolences to his family. I know we, will miss him.
Be careful out there.
|
|
stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
|
Crap.
Awful news.
I only knew him here on ST, but my best wishes to all his friends and family.
|
|
Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
|
OMG - our Woody??
This is too sad for such a bright and beautiful day.
My condolences to all affected.
Rick
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:54pm PT
|
A very sad day. Sympathy to his family and friends.
|
|
xkyczar
Trad climber
denver
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
|
This sucks.
RIP man.
|
|
rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 02:58pm PT
|
Sad indeed.
Hang in there Wendell.
I would like to take a brief moment and give a MAJOR thank you to the folks on JOSAR who are VOLUNTEERS.
You folks are great!
Sad news.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
|
RIP Woody.
A very sad day for Joshua Tree and for all of us here at Supertopo.
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
|
I'm so sorry.
This is terrible.
Woody, you, your family and friends are all in my
thoughts.
Rest in peace.
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
|
I bet many of us cut our teeth on Woody's JT routes. How awful. My condolences to all of his friends and family.
Curt
|
|
drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
|
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:05pm PT
|
Oh man! I read that news report and was shocked. I'm so sorry for his family.
We're going to miss him here.
Eric
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:05pm PT
|
Very sad day indeed. He died doing what he loved though. He is still on the rope, just somewhere ahead of us all in the storm...
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
|
Woody was an inspiration to me from the time I first did one of his routes about 30 some odd years ago. This is damn sad for sure. Not less so because Woody was highly skilled at our craft, more so than most of us. If if could happen to him, it certainly means it could happen to any of us. God-speed Woodrow, you're presence here on earth was good thing and you'll be missed.
|
|
goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
|
oh no!
He will be dearly missed, rest in peace Woody.
|
|
HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
|
RIP, Woody.
|
|
SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
|
Shocking and so sad. Seems more painful when it's one of our own, here on ST.
My thoughts go out to his family and friends.
SammyLee
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:13pm PT
|
So sorry to hear about Woody's death. It's truly the dark side of the sport - live for the thrills, but sometimes die from them; the risk is real. It could have been more tragic if he died as a young father (as some have), but no age is good.
I'm glad Al survived. But what a horrific accident to be a part of.
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
|
Best to your kids and survivors Woody. You'll be missed by lots around here.
Guy
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
|
Oh, Woody.
I just don't have the words for the emotions I'm feeling.
Dammit.
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:26pm PT
|
Condolences to the family and friends.
RIP Woody. Belay off.
|
|
cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:26pm PT
|
Oh, this makes me sad. We'll miss you.
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
|
Wow, what a buzz killer. I didn't know him, but he seemed like such a great guy. My sympathies to the family and friends.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:32pm PT
|
"The bolts and clips he set up to help stop him from falling "all failed" and he struck the second climber, whose safety protection eventually stopped his fall, he said."
WHat does this mean, exactly? He ripped all his pro? Including bolts? Perhaps it's uncooth to want to know right now but a little information might east the shock of it all.
This is really crappy news . . .
JL
|
|
Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:32pm PT
|
Tragic
My condolences to his friends and family
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:32pm PT
|
at the heights and depths of our domain, a warrior is made from the inside out.
an enchanted warrior hoarding widsoms and genius borne of satisfied wonder.
the warrior's sleep is seasoned with the riches of achievement, and the loving respect of his peers.
|
|
murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
|
Too much bloody perspective.
I hope the shock of this tragedy can be absorbed enough so that his family and friends can celebrate his full and exciting life.
|
|
yosguns
climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
|
How sad... My deepest condolences and thoughts are with you.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:41pm PT
|
May Woody's friends and family be comforted in the bittersweet memories of the times they shared together. Woody was a hell of a character. I only saw him a few times, but I know he was a TRUE friend to people like Locker.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:43pm PT
|
I am at a loss for words. Bye Woody. We will miss you here on the taco stand.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:45pm PT
|
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:50pm PT
|
The newspaper article is a complete and total fabrication!
The Park Service has my written statement and that wasn't it!
If someone from the Park Service released that they should be fired imediately. If they did not the reporter should be.
A helmet would have made no difference. It eas an ynsurvivable and instantaneously fatal fall.
When it's time, I'll discuss it all.
Now ISN'T the time!
|
|
TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
|
My condolences to all involved
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
|
Very sad and shocking news.
Beyond crossing paths every so often and sayin hi, I did not know Woody. But he was always friendly and enthusiastic. And he was always climbing.
Is it true, as I heard, that he was a big opera fan and would blast Aida or whatever was the opera de jour in his mini during his frequent runs from Riverside to Josh?
I have met his partner, Alfred Kwok, a number of times. I am glad his injuries are not life threatening, but this must be a terrible ordeal. I hope he is ok.
|
|
Daphne
Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
|
Condolences to everyone grieving his loss and a prayer for Woody as he makes the transition to a higher realm.
|
|
climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
|
Oh my god! I'm speechless. This is so sad.
I'm really going to miss the antics of the Locker & Woody Show.
Best wishes to all his friends and family.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
|
I sit here with my hand over my mouth. I'm in shock. Oh so so sad. My condolences to Woody's family and friends. I hope that someone is with Locker too. This is just the worst news possible. Awful.
|
|
pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
|
"No one has truly died so long as someone who truly loved them remembers them."
[-Rabbi Dov Ber, a mystic of the Hasidic traditon]
I believe this to be true; yet it is a heartbreak to not have those we love still close at hand.
All of the legions who loved Woody are deep in my thoughts.
^,,^ (michael)
|
|
rhyang
climber
SJC
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
|
Never met Woody, but RIP Sir :(
Met Al just once, in LVC about 4 years ago. Heal up well !
|
|
Manny
Social climber
tempe
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:03pm PT
|
My condolences to his family and loved ones. I will keep his memory alive through his routes. Adios.
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:03pm PT
|
Prayers and thoughts to his family, Locker,Cosmic adn anyone else who may have been close to Woody. Tragic news!
Peace and prayers
Ron
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:06pm PT
|
God bless Woody, his family, fiends, everyone around him.
|
|
matisse
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:12pm PT
|
Really sorry to hear this, and my thoughts are with Woody's family and friends. I'd also like to extend my sympathies to Al. I hope you heal quickly.
Sue H
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
|
hey there all... oh my... i was just too upset to go and read it, when i learned it was woody....
dear woody, i am sorry you are gone from us...
it won't be the same with gone from here...
it won't be the same at joshua tree either...
there is deep hole left there...
i'm so very sad, that i can't even make a poem for you...
i remember wishing you well, from you leg injury...
and i remember you being kind, and wanting to read my books...
and i remember you were a teacher and many more than us must love you...
i never get to meet folks, but i got to meet you online...
and i will miss you very very much...
may the good lord see to it that you see the love from all the folks here....
dear family of woody... i send my condolences and prayers... i pray everday for all of the folks here, so we must trust that things fell into place for woody, when he died...
i send my love to all....
once again, i am very very sad and sorry to hear this... and i got many tears to wipe up...
love from neebee...
|
|
chanceboarder
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:15pm PT
|
I mostly lurk here but had the chance to climb with Woody on a couple of occasions.
This very sad news and my best wishes go out to his family and friends.
Jason
|
|
Splater
climber
Grey Matter
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:16pm PT
|
I'm so sorry to hear this.
Long live the spirit of Woody!
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:17pm PT
|
Holy crap....I am so sorry to hear this.
Condolences. This one hits too close to ST home.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:20pm PT
|
This is horrible. A legend and pioneer has passed on.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:21pm PT
|
If anyone knows how to get a hold of his old Alaskan and Andean mountaneering buds that are still around, I'd appreciate a PM.
Thanks!
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:21pm PT
|
Words never seem to be adequate.
Very sad day.
I hope his family has a chance to see how this man made the climbing community shine. I didn't know him but I can tell he will be missed and remembered fondly.
|
|
Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:22pm PT
|
This quite tragic. The cast of characters runs deep on Taco stand. Losing Ouch now Woody is creating a real void. To all the Woodster's friends and family my condolences.
|
|
FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:23pm PT
|
Good vibes goin' out to all who were close.
A sad loss.
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:23pm PT
|
Yes, I never met Woody in person, but somehow this one is hitting close to home. Shite.
There was a strange energy about this weekend and today. Now I know why.
My thoughts and prayers are with Woody's family and friends, especially Locker and Cosmic.... the bond between those guys was uncommon and a good one... that was obvious for anyone to see.
Dear neebee... no worries on the poem now. Your post is beautiful poetry... it's direct from that big heart of yours. Perhaps more will come later.
Eric
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Not here
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:24pm PT
|
Speechless and deeply saddened... My condolences.
|
|
Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:24pm PT
|
So sad to hear this. I only met Woody at the crags this January.
My condolences to family and friends.
Jay
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:24pm PT
|
Is it true, as I heard, that he was a big opera fan and would blast Aida or whatever was the opera de jour in his mini during his frequent runs from Riverside to Josh?
Oh Yeah!
He even had a couple of disks that Tia riped for him of classic 40's stuff that he'd force them to play at Hangar 18.
|
|
Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:28pm PT
|
I'm so sorry to hear this.Condolences to all that knew him,but we all did.
|
|
Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:31pm PT
|
This is horrible.
My sincere condolences to his family.
|
|
d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:37pm PT
|
very sad.
his legacy lives on
thru all us taco
posers.
strength to woodys
family and good
pals.
dino :(
|
|
Barbarian
Trad climber
stealth camping and hiding from the man
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:39pm PT
|
Rest well, Woody. Rest well.
You are missed already...there is a hole in our lives that you once filled.
Condolences to all your family and friends.
|
|
Living in the Pabst
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
|
Very sad news
Thinking positive thoughts for his family
|
|
scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
|
Ach.
What a loss.
So many of us here have much to be grateful for.
He left a huge, ongoing, continuous imprint,
especially at Joshua Tree.
Who hasn't done some of his classics?
I'm so sad for his friends and family.
|
|
pud
climber
Sportbikeville
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:44pm PT
|
What is there to say? I am at a total loss.
This is tragic. A great loss for the climbing community.
My sincere condolences to Woody's family and friends.
-wayne
|
|
divad
Trad climber
wmass
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:46pm PT
|
Shocked and saddened. Condolences to family and friends,especially locker and Cosmic.
|
|
Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
|
Black Monday.
Not much of a Josh local, I've dipped into the climbing, liked it and returned to double dip. Didn't realize until now how much I had been following Woody's classic leads. A belated thank you, man.
From the old red guide:
"Woody was conceded to be the sting of the group [The Riverside Bunch]. He would prod and push until the group would climb "what they really wanted to climb all along." Woody was also conceded to be the best in the group at liebacks. In fact, he would lieback, or attempt to lieback, almost every climb they encountered." --John Wolfe
Sounds like he got full value out of a big life. Which takes away none of the sting of it abruptly ending.
My heart goes out to all of you who were close to Woody.
|
|
nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
|
Oh, my God!.. This is truly- truly sad. My sincere condolences to his Family and Friends.
Sending thoughts of comfort to Woody's family & his Joshua Tree family /Climbing Buddies. Locker, Cosmic, Karen, Todd, Blitzo, and all others...including.... Al Kwok.
Peace be with you.
|
|
froodish
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:04pm PT
|
Condolences to friends and family.
My first JT guide was the Wolfe/Dominic "Red Book" and the tales of the Riverside Bunch were a big inspiration to me.
Cheers Woody
|
|
Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:08pm PT
|
A sad day indeed! R.I.P. Woodster!
Woody climbing in Alabama Hills.
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:13pm PT
|
Our little world is a lot smaller now.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:13pm PT
|
Holy fu--!!!
I'm so sorry. Locker, this is so terrible, my heart goes out to you.
|
|
xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:14pm PT
|
So so sad. Condolences from the whole climbing community here in NW montana. Peace be with you, Woody.
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:17pm PT
|
This is very sad news indeed.
I had the pleasure of meeting Woody and talking with him on several occasions about the early Josh days. He was a vital, inspiring and energetic person. He was not content to rest on his well deserved "laurels."
He was out climbing whenever he could, and not just repeating the same old fluff. In recent times, he pioneered new routes at Josh, pushed his own limits and standards, and pulled off some pretty impressive leads.
Woody, along with Bill Briggs and the late Dick Webster, were the real first Josh "locals" and the driving forces in free climbing in the Park. Modest in reviewing his accomplishments, he and Webster and Briggs were the instigators of putting together the first Josh guide, though they did not receive the credit deserved for their efforts.
A toast to Woody!
|
|
pcousar
Sport climber
White Salmon, WA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
|
My condolences to all that knew him and called him a friend.
Even though, like many here, I had not met the man, we all knew a bit about him via his posts. I will miss his presence here.
R.I.P. Woody.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
|
Aw, f*#k. This is really sad. :( So sorry to hear about this. Warm thoughts to his loved ones.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
|
Does anyone know how to get a hold of Bill Brigs?
Woody spoke of him often and at some point I'd like to talk to him.
|
|
Double D
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
|
My condolances to all friends and family.
|
|
S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:29pm PT
|
TGT, ill email his number here in one second
EDIT: I E-mailed you his number
Woody was definatley an unforgetable character. I shared a rope with him and Locker a few times, I'll never forget the energy that filled the air when the two of them would get together.
Rest in peace my friend
Steven Powers
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
|
TGT wrote:
"Does anyone know how to get a hold of Bill Briggs?"
Is this the same Bill Briggs that lives in Boulder?
|
|
brokos
Social climber
Riverside, ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:46pm PT
|
Hi -- My name is Brian Rokos. I am an assistant metro editor at The Press-Enterprise newspaper in Riverside, Calif. We are writing a story for Tuesday on Mr. Stark. We would appreciate anyone who wants to be interviewed for the story or has photos of Mr. Stark that they could e-mail me to call me at 951-368-9449 or e-mail me with comments with your first and last names at brokos@pe.com.
It sounds like he was an important part of the rock-climbing community, and any comments about him would be appreciated.
Thanks.
|
|
P.Kingsbury
Trad climber
the jeep
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
|
RIP woody
|
|
DJS
Trad climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:53pm PT
|
CRAP!!!
This rally sucks...
RIP Woody...
|
|
WanderlustMD
Trad climber
DC Area (it's as bad as you've heard)
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:54pm PT
|
Ugh, this is really too bad.
I never knew him, but condolences to all who did...
-Matt
|
|
mooser
Trad climber
seattle
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
|
I've never met Woody, but I'm speechless nonetheless. So sorry for the pain and shock being felt right now by those who knew and loved him. Words are inadequate, but sometimes all you've got.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
|
Condolences to Woody's family and friends. I never met Woody in person but the Taco won't be the same without him.
|
|
nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
|
I'm in a state of shock. Condolences to his friends and family.
Locker and Cosmic... hang in there guys. you're in our hearts - we're thinking about you and love you both!
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
climber
dangling off a wind turbine in a town near you
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
|
I'm speechless.
I can only offer my condolences to his family.
|
|
MisterE
Trad climber
One Place or Another
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:17pm PT
|
So sad to hear about this - just shocked.
Erik
|
|
matty
Big Wall climber
Valencia, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:18pm PT
|
So sad, even to those who only knew him through the taco, his spirit will shine on...
Matt
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
|
I was in England with no internet access for a week. This is the first thread I saw now that I'm home. Awful homecoming.
Condolences to his family.
|
|
GDavis
Trad climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
|
Anyone have any good Woody stories? There's got to be some out there, and I'd love to hear more about the kind of Man he was. Never got the pleasure to meet him...
My climbing partners always get peeved when I'm 'too nice' to other climbers we share a route with, because appearantly I blab too much? I hope I got to talk to him without knowing it was him somewhere out there. I think we could all use being a bit extra nice to strangers every now and again...
|
|
Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
|
I feel like I've taken a punch in the gut..
ughh
My very best wishes to his nearest and dearest.
I'm glad Al made it. I climbed Mt Ritter's North Face with him years ago. We climbed once at Cragmont. I wish him a speedy recovery.
Zander
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:35pm PT
|
Holding a prayer for Woody and standing by Locker, Cosmic and the rest of the campfire.
We mean a lot to each other.
May Woody prosper on the ultimate journey, and my the rest of us always know what we mean to each other.
Peace
Karl
|
|
jtanzman
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:39pm PT
|
For those inquiring about Al Kwok, I just heard from a colleague of his that Al was well enough to go into work today. Apparently his injuries were limited to broken ribs.
Jay
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
|
Just heard a piece on NPR about the accident- pretty much the same details as the article at the start of this thread, except the piece said something to the effect that 'he lost his grip and fell...his partner did not fall due to the equipment he was using'
More media misinterpretation, I'm sure.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 06:47pm PT
|
Another fabrication based on the original one.
|
|
dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:00pm PT
|
Oh man, I can't believe it.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
|
This all seems so unreal.
I guess we should all hug the ones we love more often.
Juan
|
|
Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:26pm PT
|
Locker, TGT, and all of Woody's other friends and family,
I'm so sorry.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:27pm PT
|
Man, what a rough Monday on the ST family.
"...in fact, he would lieback, or attempt to lieback, almost every climb they encountered." --John Wolfe
A man after my own heart. Sorry I never made it down there to meet him or get on his lines - all the more reason to make it to the benefit for Roy. My condolences to all of you who were among his friends.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:27pm PT
|
hey there locker... oh my... say, we have been very much in your corner and concerned...
if you need anything... there is a host of folks here just waiting...
|
|
BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
|
So sorry for the loss. Sad day for the Taco indeed!!!
:(
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:45pm PT
|
Condolences to family and friends. Even though I never met Woody, it sure feels like starting the week by someone socking you in the gut. His presence will be sorely missed on the taco.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:46pm PT
|
Still reeling here. Glad to hear that Al's physical injuries are not worse. And glad to see Locker here with all of his friends. I hope Woody's family and friends feel the love here on the taco. It's immense.
|
|
Tan Slacks
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 07:57pm PT
|
Woody leading...
and Locker belaying.....
all was right in this world.
RIP Woody
|
|
can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:03pm PT
|
Oh man, this is really sad. My sincere condolences to his friends and family. Karen, my thoughts go out to you.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:10pm PT
|
I'm very sorry to hear of Woody's death. I never met him, although I was hoping to at the Tarbuster fundraiser in April. It sounds like he was a character and then some, and a fine climber. My sympathies to his family and friends.
|
|
Tan Slacks
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:12pm PT
|
Karen and Woody deep in thought.
|
|
Gearhead
Trad climber
Novato Ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:14pm PT
|
I hope I am cranking as hard as Woody at 67. To all who new him I am sorry for your loss
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:18pm PT
|
Does anyone know how to get a hold of Karen?
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
|
Those are very nice posts you put up, Tan Slacks.
|
|
Redwreck
Social climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:29pm PT
|
Aw man. Terrible news. So long, Woody.
|
|
TYeary
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:29pm PT
|
Hard news to digest. I am in a bit of shock. A bit of all of us died, I'm afraid. My Prayers and good thoughts streaming out to all. I'm so sorry. I just not sure what to say.
Tony
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
|
hey there comic and locker and all... you know, there may be some folks that do not check into some post, and may not know this has happened, as to woody...
perhaps later, you may wish to make an offical note, for those that may only read more regional post...
it is just a though... perhaps when it is time for the family's services, and such...
|
|
Echo
Trad climber
San Diego, CA.
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 08:55pm PT
|
Very sad... My condolences to the family.
|
|
Jess O
Trad climber
California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:03pm PT
|
This is so sad. Condolences to Woody's family, Locker, and the rest of his many friends. It sounds like he was quite an individual and will be greatly missed. Wishing Alfred a speedy recovery. Many thanks to the folks who were involved in the rescue that day. Everyone, PLEASE be safe out there!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:04pm PT
|
Never saw this thread and just heard about it.
Wow! So sad. Woody was all right guy.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:04pm PT
|
(photo by J.Hsueh)
not to make light of it in any way, but-
betchya a million bucks that's how he'd have wanted to go.
|
|
Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:04pm PT
|
I did not know him but just what I saw of him on the forum here I feel very sad knowing that he has passed on. Very sad news to hear out of the blue. Rest in peace. Condolences to the family and friends.
|
|
labrat
Trad climber
Nevada
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
|
Sad day. My thoughts go out to Woody's friends and family.
Erik
|
|
yu-min
climber
San Diego, california
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:37pm PT
|
i didnt know Woody directly but just happened to be at intersection rock on sunday as the emergency responders pulled up... it had been a beautiful day in joshua tree and the sun was nearing the evening horizon. A feeling of mournful gravity fell over the parking lot as the fire truck rolled silently by, lights flashing but no sirens. The warmth of the days sun lingered in the air, and a strange sense that something of huge importance passed through every climber's mind as the sun set gracefully on this epic journey.
|
|
Steve L
climber
Sur
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:46pm PT
|
Rest in peace Woody. It was an honor climbing with you. You'll be missed.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
|
Hang in there TGT, Locker, Dwain, Todd, Karen and other good friends.
I think we all shed tears over this. I never got a chance to meet Woody, but this really hurts. I feel like I lost a member of my family.
God bless you, Woody.
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:06pm PT
|
so shocked! Woody was great around here! I loved how he mixed it up.
The crotch shot always made me shudder and laugh at the same time.
Bon Voyage!
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:09pm PT
|
I didn't know him but if he was a friend of Locker and Cosmic he must have been exceptional.
My heartfelt condolences to all.
Reilly
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
|
This gets to me every time I tune in. I nev er met Woody in the flesh, we used to argue about politicas and then he'd say something that made me laugh out loud!
Condolences again to all, esp Karen, Locker, Cosmic and everyone.
|
|
JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
|
Love to Woody, his family, and his buddies.
Joe
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
|
Stunned ! On a short list of the 10 worst things I thought would ever occur in 2009 this would be way beyond the 500 mark.
Woody, a scholar and a gentleman! On our Super Topo he was kind and encouraging to this new poster. A man with an opinion and alot of class to go with it. His thoughts about all manner of ideas and topics were so well thought out and mixed with a good deal of great dry wit!
My climbing tic list has been more about who to climb with rather than what to climb. I always thought just around the corner I'd get to climb with this legend.
Which makes me remember that making People Happen in our lives is The Most important objective. Things and Shee get broken, lost and eventually become meaningless. People live forever in our hearts, soul, mind and being.
When Dan died I tried to make it a goal in life to keep in the face of everyone that life and a tomorrow is Not a given. Today is all we have. Efforts in this cause need to be redoubled. Unless, yo are one of us that have Lost, it is hard to comprehend the incredible preciousness of Today.
So I encourage all to Forgive, don't bicker, Love Intensely, Things are Nought, Give your self and your being and body to your loved one. Say, yeah that sounds like fun and do it....even if it doesn't....yo will be surprised. LOVE THE ONE YO LOVE !
Peace to Woodies Family and my Prayers to each one of you. And to his dear Friends....I am so very sorry. If I can help or do anything please let me know. My heart and tears are with you. Love Lynne
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
|
Thanks you, Cosmic, for that photo tribute... ya done the man justice. The humorous ones especially so... I think he's laughing at those from wherever he is now.
Eric
|
|
Ropeburn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
|
I've been off this board for a while and it's devastating news that brings me back. We had a lot of fun together and I will miss him dearly. My heart goes out to Tia and Junior.
Blake
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:31pm PT
|
I am shocked. No one had my number and I learned of Woody's death from this thread. Please email me at:
mtnclimber59@yahoo.com
Karen
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
|
How many rugby shirts did Woody have?
That was old school back when it was just called "school".
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:45pm PT
|
My thoughts and deep sympathy are with Woody's partners, friends and family as this era of Joshua Tree climbing closes.
We all have a common starting and ending point in life, it's what you do in between that makes it your own. And the way you weave that path among all the others is a part of your legacy. Watch for the signs of Woody's path, as a climber it will be intertwined in your own.
Thanks Woody.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:48pm PT
|
Like so many here I am in awe with great sadness. My thoughts to all who are close to woody and is family.
As I scrolled down this thread, it made me think how much inherit risk there really is, when we are running around doining our thing at the crags.
R.I.P. Woody!!
|
|
Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
|
This loss to our community has weighed on me with a heavy sadness all day.
The lone bright spot of respite I have been able to create for myself is the movie of Ouch! and Woody graffiting the walls of heaven with their cartoons whilst laughing their butts off the whole time.
Peace to all.
|
|
Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:57pm PT
|
Have not been on The Taco lately but when I saw this just had to reply. Like so many have said very sad news. Woody was and in our hearts and minds is still an all right guy.
|
|
MisterE
Trad climber
One Place or Another
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:00pm PT
|
Locker, Blitzo, Todd, Tucker, Dwain (the people I know) and all the climbing partners of Woody - my heart goes out to you tonight. It is a sad day for Joshua Tree climbing, as Billy said.
I never met the man and his kin, but the world you guys shared here included the man and his passion and family.
He has and will be honored.
Erik
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
|
Thank you Cosmic and Locker for the very wonderful photo tribute to a great man and academia. Peace to you and healing for your spirits and souls ..... as well as to all the rest of you so close to this very special man who was a significant and positive part of many peoples lives. Lynne
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
|
Oh Karen, that is so sad, your finding out in this way. When my brother died back in 1986 from an ice fishing accident, I heard about it on a morning news story. It is a really hard way to get such news. I was lucky in that my sister was on her way to my house at the time, to tell me. She arrives while I was still realing from the shock.
I haven't met you outside STopo, but please accept my condolences, especially with just getting this news and in such a fashion.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
|
from the cross thread, Woody wrote in November 2007:
"It's been a long career in climbing for me. One by one father time has taken us down: Jim foote with a stroke years ago, Dick Webster Killed in Moab a short time ago, Bill Briggs suffers from Multiple Myleoma and is putting up the good fight, and yours truly still pecks away about once a week.
As time went on, we moved more into mountaineering and climbed from Alaska to Peru, all great fun with many adventures and lots of astonishing good luck. As a group, we were somewhat unusual: we had all been together since highschool in Riverside, and some of us since elementary; therefore we formed a cohesive group that worked well, particularly in mountaineering where it's essential.
Bill and his wife Karen split their time between two homes, one in JT and the other Santa Fe. Bill still does a little climbing when feeling up to it and is a member of the JT SAR team. Sometime this week, the Briggs and I will be depositing some of Dick's ashes in the park. Considering that Dick and his Dad first climbed in JT starting in the fifties, it seems a most appropriate place and what he wanted.
I turned sixty six on the twenty-third of this month and will continue beating the little drum as long as Mother Nature and Father Time are patient, compassionate, sympathetic and empathetic.
All in all, it's been a good tour through time for most of us. We were all, with the exception of Jim Foote, in our sixties before things began to go awry. Hell, it can't last forever. I get up each morning, crawl to the coffee pot and am damn grateful I'm still around to drink it."
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:08pm PT
|
I do not know what to say. A very sad moment. My thoughts go out to friends and family.
|
|
graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:16pm PT
|
Oh my god, just saw this. Unbelievably sad.
Woody was an inspiration to many, me included.
My deepest condolences to all his friends and family.
Mike Graham
|
|
BrassNuts
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:19pm PT
|
Very sad news. My condolences to his family and friends.
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
|
Ed H, thanks for posting that.
It gives us a sense of humanity of someone
who's really touched us from afar.
Again, to all of Woody's friends and family,
my sincere condolences.
|
|
dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
|
So sad,My deepest condolences to all his friends and family.
Bruce
|
|
Ropeburn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
|
|
|
sandsnow
Social climber
SoCal
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
|
This is just so sad.
I climbed with Woody one time. I had a great time asking about all the stories in the original JT guidebook I had read over and over as a high school kid. That was three years ago. I had always thought I would like to hook up with him again some weekend.
I hope Woody's family and friends can find peace with this soon.
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:44pm PT
|
RIP
I did not know Woody but he did post this on a thread i had started about songs that you would like to have played at your funeral.
"" Waltzing Matilda ". I love that song. It should be the Aussie national anthem."
how sad .
Slim Dusty does a classic version here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwvazMc5EfE
|
|
Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:49pm PT
|
I happened upon Woody last year in a cafe in Joshua Tree and I am very glad I got the chance to chat with him. I was delighted to finally meet the person whose name I still recognized, 35 years later, from the first guidebook I ever bought.
My heart goes out to his family and friends for this terrible loss.
Rick Accomazzo
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:55pm PT
|
When you are gone beyond this place
and left this world of glorious joy's and greysome woes,
To be remembered well and good by your dear friends
that is the greatest crown that god bestows.
Tribute to Woody
|
|
Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:05am PT
|
I just read about this deeply saddening news...I pray for his family and friends, and know that he was truly blessed in this world. I hope to see him again in the next, God Bless You Woody.
|
|
mike
climber
I have no clue
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:13am PT
|
Damn. my condolences to all family and friends.
|
|
bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:19am PT
|
I'm gonna miss ya' amigo...
My thoughts are with you and your family.
Much love, john
|
|
roy
Social climber
New Zealand -> Santa Barbara
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:30am PT
|
This is very sad news. He was a larger than life character on the topo. My condolences to family and friends.
roy
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:33am PT
|
Woody was the second post on Jennie's Best Wishes To Dirtineye thread.
"Best wishes to Dirtineye. I've seen a couple of friends go through what he's suffering, and he's got my sympathy."
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:41am PT
|
Wow. I too am totally stunned. Joshua Tree has lost an icon. He will not soon be forgotten.
Thanks for posting the pictures. It's wonderful to see them. Woody was a climber. He was climbing in a place he loved.
Every time I hang with Locker and Dwain there is always a great Woody story. I regret that I never got to climb with him.
My heartfelt condolences Woody's friends and family.
Edit to add: I wish a speedy recovery to Al who I climbed with once several years ago.
|
|
10b4me
Ice climber
Rustys Saloon
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:43am PT
|
so sad to hear this. my condolences to his immediate family, and to Locker, Cosmic, and TGT.
I've climbed in the Tree for thirty years, and never met Woody. I wish I had though.
|
|
Jobee
Social climber
El Portal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:44am PT
|
My condolences to all who know and love Woody.
This is a very sad day.
Love and light,
Jo Whitford
|
|
flash5twelve
climber
Fort Collins, CO
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:52am PT
|
I've climbed his routes without ever knowing. I never met him, but I am saddened at the loss of him.
Condolences to his family and friends and all climbers.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:53am PT
|
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:54am PT
|
ropeburn, thanks for more special pics and memories of this great guy. Thinking now of each family member and praying that their hearts ache will be comforted by the reaching out to them in little and big ways from those that care.
When the info comes down will someone post the service times if having one. Also if there is a special cause Woody cared about that we can contribute to in memory of ......
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:54am PT
|
Oh no...not Woody...I really wanted to meet him. My sympathies to family and friends. What a shocking loss. Especially sad for you, Locker.
-Jeff Lowe
|
|
BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:56am PT
|
I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I must have done some of his routes.
Maybe some of you could throw out some route names from his legacy...
RIP, Brad Huys
|
|
nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:00am PT
|
Double Cross
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:12am PT
|
Yep, right on Nature, jess checked my guide book...FKFA Woody Stark, Dick Webster, Bill Briggs; 1967
One of the first climbs I ever did bitd. lrl
|
|
Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:12am PT
|
I never knew him, but I have climbed some of his routes. I don't know if this might cheer anyone up a bit, but when I have to deal with the loss of a friend this gives me a bit of a smile. Perhaps Woody would have liked it.
After Dark
Selected Writings by
Robert Service
The Ballad of Blasphemous Bill
I took a contract to bury the body of blasphemous Bill MacKie,
Whenever, wherever or whatsoever the manner of death he die --
Whether he die in the light o' day or under the peak-faced moon;
In cabin or dance-hall, camp or dive, mucklucks or patent shoon;
On velvet tundra or virgin peak, by glacier, drift or draw;
In muskeg hollow or canyon gloom, by avalanche, fang or claw;
By battle, murder or sudden wealth, by pestilence, hooch or lead --
I swore on the Book I would follow and look till I found my tombless dead.
For Bill was a dainty kind of cuss, and his mind was mighty sot
On a dinky patch with flowers and grass in a civilized boneyard lot.
And where he died or how he died, it didn't matter a damn
So long as he had a grave with frills and a tombstone "epigram."
So I promised him, and he paid the price in good cheechako coin
(Which the same I blowed in that very night down in the Tenderloin).
Then I painted a three-foot slab of pine: "Here lies poor Bill MacKie,"
And I hung it up on my cabin wall and waited for Bill to die.
Years passed away, and at last one day came a squaw with a story strange,
Of a long-deserted line of traps 'way back of the Bighorn range,
Of a little hut by the great divide, and a white man stiff and still,
Lying there by his lonesome self, and I figured it must be Bill.
So I thought of the contract I'd made with him, and I took down from the shelf
The swell black box with the silver plate he'd picked out for hisself;
And I packed it full of grub and "hooch," and I slung it on the sleigh;
Then I harnessed up my team of dogs and was off at dawn of day.
You know what it's like in the Yukon wild when it's sixty-nine below;
When the ice-worms wriggle their purple heads through the crust of the
pale blue snow;
When the pine trees crack like little guns in the silence of the wood,
And the icicles hang down like tusks under the parka hood;
When the stove-pipe smoke breaks sudden off, and the sky is weirdly lit,
And the careless feel of a bit of steel burns like a red-hot spit;
When the mercury is a frozen ball, and the frost-fiend stalks to kill --
Well, it was just like that that day when I set out to look for Bill.
Oh, the awful hush that seemed to crush me down on every hand,
As I blundered blind with a trail to find through that blank and bitter land;
Half dazed, half crazed in the winter wild, with its grim heartbraking woes,
And the ruthless strife for a grip on life that only the sourdough knows!
North by the compass, North I pressed; river and peak and plain
Passed like a dream I slept to lose and I waked to dream again.
River and plain and mighty peak -- and who could stand unawed?
As their summits blazed, he could stand undazed at the foot of the throne
of God.
North, aye, North, through a land accurst, shunned by the scouring brutes,
And all I heard was my own harsh word and the whine of the malamutes,
Till at last I came to a cabin squat, built in the side of a hill,
And I burst in the door, and there on the floor, frozen to death, lay Bill.
Ice, white ice, like a winding-sheet, sheathing each smoke-grimed wall;
Ice on the stove-pipe, ice on the bed, ice gleaming over all;
Sparkling ice on the dead man's chest, glittering ice in his hair,
Ice on his fingers, ice in his heart, ice in his glassy stare;
Hard as a log and trussed like a frog, with his arms and legs outspread.
I gazed at the coffin I'd brought for him, and I gazed at the gruesome dead,
And at last I spoke: "Bill liked his joke; but still, goldarn his eyes,
A man had ought to consider his mates in the way he goes and dies."
Have you ever stood in an Arctic hut in the shadow of the Pole,
With a little coffin six by three and a grief you can't control?
Have you ever sat by a frozen corpse that looks at you with a grin,
And that seems to say: "You may try all day, but you'll never jam me in?"
I'm not a man of the quitting kind, but I never felt so blue
As I sat there gazing at that stiff and studying what I'd do.
Then I rose and I kicked off the husky dogs that were nosing round about,
And I lit a roaring fire in the stove, and I started to thaw Bill out.
Well, I thawed and I thawed for thirteen days, but it didn't seem no good;
His arms and his legs stuck out like pegs, as if they were made of wood.
Till at last I said: "It ain't no use -- he's froze too hard to thaw;
He's obstinate, and he won't lie straight, so I guess I got to -- saw."
So I sawed off poor Bill's arms and legs, and I laid him snug and straight
In the little coffin he picked hisself, with the dinky silver plate,
And I came nigh near to shedding a tear as I nailed him safely down;
Then I stowed him away in my Yukon sleigh, and I started back to town.
So I buried him as the contract was in a narrow grave and deep,
And there he's waiting the Great Clean-up, when the the Judgment
sluice-heads sweep;
And I smoke my pipe and I meditate in the light of the Midnight Sun,
And sometimes I wonder if they was, the awful things I done.
And as I sit and the parson talks, expounding of the Law,
I often think of poor old Bill -- and how hard he was to saw.
My best wishes to his family and climbing partners.
Michael Jefferson
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:19am PT
|
For Woody and those many kind and beloved souls gathered round him; no doubt he lived the spirit of these words through and through:
You Reading This, Be Ready
Starting here, what do you want to remember?
How sunlight creeps along a shining floor?
What scent of old wood hovers, what softened
sound from outside fills the air?
Will you ever bring a better gift for the world
than the breathing respect that you carry
wherever you go right now? Are you waiting
for time to show you some better thoughts?
When you turn around, starting here, lift this
new glimpse that you found; carry into evening
all that you want from this day. This interval you spent
reading or hearing this, keep it for life--
What can anyone give you greater than now,
starting here, right in this room, when you turn around?
William Stafford
|
|
tokyo bill
Social climber
tokyo
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:41am PT
|
Just found this thread. Never met Woody, but even just knowing him through his posts here, I feel the loss. Sincere condolences to his family and friends. RIP, Woody.
|
|
Indianclimber
Trad climber
Lost Wages
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:44am PT
|
What shocking news,condolences to his friends and family
Ed ,thanks for finding that wonderful piece of writing
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:45am PT
|
So sad right now. Total stunner. Always enjoyed reading what Woody had to say and his sharp sense of humor. He died with his boots on and that's how he wanted it to be, except that it was too damned soon. God bless you, Woody.
Huge condolences to his family and all of his friends.
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:46am PT
|
Gonna miss ya roun' here, WoodySt--RIP fine sir...
|
|
crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:07am PT
|
This is so sad. I never got to meet Woody but enjoyed his postings.
Do not stand by my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep
I am a thousand winds that blow,
I am the diamond glints on snow,
I am the sunlight on ripened grain
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awake in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight
I am the soft-star that shines at night.
Do not stand by my grave and cry,
I am not there, I did not die.
|
|
Dirka
Trad climber
SF
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:27am PT
|
RIP. Many blessings to friends and family.
|
|
Dudeman
Trad climber
California/Idaho/Beyond
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:32am PT
|
So sad. What a heavy day.
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:44am PT
|
A very very very sad day for the climbing world.
|
|
schwortz
Social climber
davis, ca
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:45am PT
|
sad news. RIP.
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:01am PT
|
Woody belaying Tucker Tech up in the San Bernardino Mtns.
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Not here
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:03am PT
|
I spent the whole day in denial, now after a call from Cosmic and arriving home... All I can think about is how much of a great tragedy this is. Tears and beer for me tonight. Love to the gang, I will be coming up A.S.A.P.
AF
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:04am PT
|
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:08am PT
|
woody Crotch shot....
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:11am PT
|
Besides the famous Double Cross, and the other campground Desert Rats classic pioneered routes, Woody has been busy doing all sorts of new routes;....most of which are more or less undocumented. I had the awesome pleasure of joining Woody on these first ascents at Joshua Tree.....these climbs will probably someday find their way into a guidebook;...go do them, most are excellent......all these climbs are a fine tribute to Woody...... a great man, a great climber, and a great climbing partner.....
Proper B T (Bitch Training) 5.10b
Urdu 5.9
Nic Traverse 5.8
Dig for Fire 5.8
Monkey Gone to Heaven 5.8
Broke Back Burke 5.8
I'm not a Doctor, but I'll Take a Look 5.7
Southern Cornbread 5.8
Fried Okra 5.8
Man Boobs 5.9
Chubs 5.7
Tart and Tiny 5.7
Woody's Whirlpool Bath 5.10
Mortal Thoughts 5.10c
I have info on all of these climbs;.....if you are interested, contact me....
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:12am PT
|
Wow. So sorry to hear this. Rest in peace, Woody!
|
|
S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 06:31am PT
|
I believe the name of the route that Mr.Stark is on in the above photos is called "Srepoper has a roid" an excellent day spent with Mr.Cosmic, Mr.Locker (almost typed his real last name) Mr.Stark and myself. Maybe I have the days messed up but I believe that is the day of the FA.
If it is not the same day, I'm happy to know that woody was having a good time on a route with my name(kind of) in the name of it; Only because I know I enjoyed myself as much or maybe even more on the routes he pioneered in Joshua Tree.
I wish sometimes, to go back to the times that were simple; before I realized that people die, and that's the end. I wish that when I realized people died, I was more spiritual. I wish I could have been in JT when this happened so I could offer more support. I wish we didn't die.
|
|
Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 07:39am PT
|
Sincerest condolences to Woody's family and his extended family-the JT Crew: Locker, Todd, Cosmic, TGT, et al. A piece of solace is that he passed in a place he loved and he was loved and admired by many.
|
|
Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 08:01am PT
|
My heart goes out to all of you who were close to Woody as well.
Seems the man made the most of the time he had and so many have lived richer lives because of him.
Hang in there folks. Life is precious as we find out in the hardest ways sometimes.
Peace and love,
DD
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 08:15am PT
|
Sh#t, I would have liked to met and climbed with the man. RIP Woody.
Condolences to family and friends.
|
|
rhyang
climber
SJC
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:07am PT
|
Just got an email from Al - he "just" had two broken ribs (ouch), no back injuries, no internal organ damage (contrary to news reports). Hope you are able to get back out there soon !
|
|
KlimbIn
climber
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:03am PT
|
As an avid lurker I always enjoyed the antics. It is a great example of where I want to be in 20 years; on the rocks, climbing hard, having fun at 65, with good friends. Thank you Woody.
My deepest condolences to family and friends.
|
|
Sherri
climber
WA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:19am PT
|
Incredibly sad news. :(
|
|
michaelleemoore
Trad climber
Missoula, MT
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:43am PT
|
First, condolences to Woody's family. It's small consolation that he died doing what he loved.
Two, as a climber and a newspaper reporter, I know that the media often does a poor job of explaining climbing accidents, in part because most reporters don't climb and explanations of climbing accidents can be pretty technical.
We need to recognize the need for Woody's family to have some time, but it's also incumbent upon us, eventually, to talk about what happened with Woody and Al. That discussion makes us all safer as the rest of us climb past this tragedy.
But we should only do that when the time is right.
|
|
friendofthedevil
Social climber
california
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:55am PT
|
i am sad. :(
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:55am PT
|
Locker,
That last image made me cry. My best to you and all of Woody's friends.
gm
|
|
Sam Chang
climber
CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:10pm PT
|
I first met Woody when I wanted to learn how to trad climb. His profile on an old Joshua Tree climbing website (now merged w/ mountainproject) said he was retired and he was willing to help novices, so I sent him an email because I didn't want to pay for a guide. Over the next few years I made a number of trips out to JT to climb with him. Woody patiently showed me how to make gear placements on the ground, then gave me the rack and sent me up some 5.3s and 5.6s, and followed and commented on my placements. He essentially acted as a guide with a vast knowledge of the routes in JT, except I never paid a dime. In fact, he treated me to dinner and breakfast many times. I always enjoyed his stories about climbing and mountaineering back in the day, and I'd try to get him to tell them whenever I could.
He always spoke affectionately of his kids. He invited me to climb with him and Tia once, and when I was about to lead a pitch that Tia was to follow, he made sure to tell me to back up my anchor (when he's the only one following, he'd tell me not to spend too much time making a textbook anchor).
I don't know how to express how sad and shocked I am to hear this news. My sympathies to Woody's family and friends, and I hope Al has a speedy recovery.
|
|
tiki-jer
Trad climber
fresno/clovis
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:11pm PT
|
I just saw this and I too am crying.
I never met the gentleman but because of the taco-stand I believe I knew him. I will sorely miss hearing and reading the antics.
Rest in Peace, Sir!!
|
|
brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:41pm PT
|
This guy was a trooper. This last year he took a long fall at Tahquitz and broke his foot or something. He was right back at the gym training with a cast on! I just remember thinking that dude is hardcore, little did I realize how hardcore he really was after reading all these posts. Condolences.
|
|
luggi
Trad climber
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:10pm PT
|
My condolences to the family....
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
|
True Desert Rat in the finest fashion. It's a bummer that we all don't have the time or funds to able to climb with folks we haven't met in person yet.
It would have been an honor.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:50pm PT
|
Bummer, and quite the loss of a great character.
I only met him a few times, and only did one route with him (Trundling Rainbow). Merely climbing at his age has been an inspiration, shaming me into getting off my fat ass. Tearing it up at his age was just damned impressive.
Happy Trails Woodster
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
|
Well I, for one, intend to curse the bejesus out of him, the entire grunt up Double Cross when I am there next week. In between grunts, that is.
And I know he would LAUGH his ass off to hear it.
I had a couple dreams with him last night. In one, he was sitting at the area around the Burrito, going "WTH happened?" Breath knocked out, discombobulated. I asked if he wanted to get up. He still needed time. I asked if he needed anything and he said something about his cats needing care. And then, there were his beloved cats. Right there, on his lap in JTree, comforting him.
Pretty nice dream, actually. He loved those cats. And he loved his children so much. Often made proud dad statements in these threads. The story about the safe anchor is a good one that shows exactly that.
|
|
INAWE
Big Wall climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
|
Woody introduced me to climbing. We climbed many times at Joshua Tree and Tahquitz. He was the best climber and teacher I could have ever wished to instruct me. He was tough and I will forever appreciate my time with him, the skills he taught me and his never give up attitude.
RIP Woody...You will be missed.
|
|
Ropeburn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
|
Locker,
I've never laughed my ass off more than with you two while we were relentlessly tormenting the woodman. It just never stopped until our bellys were sore from laughing and we had to shut up and climb.
I woke up this morning after a restless night and for a moment I thought it was a bad dream. I can't explain how much this sucks.
Blake
ps - was that a relative of Billy Blobbit I saw lurking in a previous photo?
|
|
the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
|
At least he lived more than 100 regular people put together.
|
|
Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
|
So sorry to hear this. Condolences and care to all his family and friends and all of us on ST who lost a fine member.
Peter
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
|
In a need for closure can we have some information on the accident yet?
God's Speed Woody.
Juan
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
|
Juan,
No need for details yet, even if they were available which I think is not the case. Let's make this thread a celebration and memorial of Woody. There will be plenty of time later for analysis. Let's get through the shock and grief first.
Gene
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
|
There's going to have to be a proccess to this. I know everyone wants to know what happened. I was emailed the preliminary SAR report and they had it wrong. The source of the confusion was understandable. The final report won't be out for a week or so.
I'll probably post something before then, but I owe it to Woody, (and Al) to get it right and I have promised Tia she and Woody Jr will get it first.
She was just over and has the whole story as do a few closest to him.
Please don't badger them for details now.
It's not time yet.
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
|
As I've said before, my sincerest wishes go out
to Woody's family and friends.
It's such a great loss.
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Not here
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
|
I don't want to know what happened, this loss is enough.
|
|
Tork
climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 04:07pm PT
|
So sad!!!! Never met Woody but, one of the cool things about the taco stand, I felt I had.
Condolences,
Jeff
|
|
Brian Giovanola
Trad climber
San Ramon, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
|
I was very saddened to hear the news today...
Woody took me on my very first lead climb on Mother's Flake and saved my life running and diving to the dirt when I fell.
I still have the picture on my wall taken that day by James Foote.
You wil be missed Woodey, by many.
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 04:56pm PT
|
Condolences to his family and all of his friends, both real and "virtual".
He will be missed here by all.
|
|
HandCrack
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal.
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
|
This horrible accident serves as a reminder of how lucky we are to be able to climb with our friends in such magical places. I went out to the Park today and did a few routes - a beautiful spring day, great climbing. I thought of Woody a number of times. I stopped to take the time to make sure everything I did was as safe as could be. Our sport is such a wonderful activity; I'd like to keep on climbing as long as Woody if it's possible. I'd be a lucky man if things work out that way.
|
|
burrob
Trad climber
New Mexico and California
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 06:34pm PT
|
Remembrances of Woody: Having known him for a few years, maybe 55; could tell a few stories. We lived a few blocks apart in Riverside and went to the same schools. To clarify, I am not the Bill Briggs from Boulder, nor the Bill Briggs from Jackson Hole, just the “real” Bill Briggs, as my wife Karen calls me, the Riverside/Santa Fe one. Dick Webster and his dad, who were also neighbors, got us into climbing and hand digging the hole for their swimming pool.
Woody was always the one with the more outrageous ideas. “Let’s go over the two highest peaks in southern California between Christmas and New Years, regardless of the weather, starting at Poopout hill (or Jinks Lake) and ending up in Idyllwild. Lets climb the highest peaks in Mexico over spring break… How about the highest mountains in Ecuador and Peru… Olancha by its East Ridge from Owens valley in mid-winter… Snow Creek in the winter with the rescue team (RMRU)… That needle off Geology Tour road”. So of course most of us fell-in. He wound up in Singapore for the first Grand Traverse. I went skiing at Mammoth for the second weekend of the needle so missed witnessing the bolt ladder up the other side when they topped out. How about a tent fire on Willie in the winter!
You all have expressed his special qualities very well. He was a real mover, always willing to push hard and challenge us on almost any subject. I could only top him on opera but then he took up snowboarding recently and had never skied! He was a help with my cancer, would come out to JT and lead us up any easy route we chose, although sometimes we took him to challenging places which expanded his horizons a bit.
I skimmed through some photos, have a few of our early days in the Monument but no close-ups that show a wrap or two around the waist of Plymouth white nylon or later, Goldline rope, shoes being hightop tennies, lug sole vibram (Pivetta with padded high tops but thin lugs) or finally the klettershuh. Pitons and one inch slings for the only pro, setting a bolt was anathema to us. Anyway: found some photos from the 60’s and 70’s in places other than JT.
Bye Woody, we are missing you and will be missing you for soooo long. It is going to be quiet around the house with you not stopping by after climbing (with us or others) to solve all the problems of the world! The challenge was picking sides and debating with such aplomb. Woody was not only a great climber but a widely read observer of the world scene. We had such a fun over multiple soft drinks on the front porch.
Thanks forum-ers for all your kind comments, Bill and Karen (Photos later)
|
|
Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 06:53pm PT
|
"I don't want to know what happened, this loss is enough."
But knowing what happened may prevent future losses (precisely why it's important to read ANAM).
Tia, Woody Jr., Locker, I know you've lost someone who was a wonderful father, friend, climbing partner, and person. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and sending love your way.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
|
It is going to be quiet around the house with you not stopping by after climbing (with us or others) to solve all the problems of the world! The challenge was picking sides and debating with such aplomb. Woody was not only a great climber but a widely read observer of the world scene. We had such a fun over multiple soft drinks on the front porch.
Well said, Bill. Most of us who never met him and knew him only from here are very well aware of that. Personally I loved the guy like a wiser father, of course I was usually on the side agreeing with him.
He loved to debate here, and will be missed very much by all, by those who agreed with him and those that loved to spar with him in worldly affairs.
I hope I can take up some of his slack and continue the debate in his absence, I know he'd want me too.
Cheers Woody, I'll do my best.
|
|
jbar
Social climber
land of the lost
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 09:22pm PT
|
Wow, Woody was one of the people on here who's comments I respected and enjoyed. Won't be the same without him.
Jeremy
|
|
Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:00pm PT
|
Woody was loved by every one whose lives he touched!
Here's to a life well lived!
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:02pm PT
|
Any news of a memorial in the works yet?
|
|
Bad Climber
climber
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
|
Man, this stinks. I only knew him through his posts, although I have climbed in Josh many times over the years. No doubt we crossed paths. Condolences to his friends and family. His passing is hitting a lot of people pretty hard. He was loved. Can't beat that. I'll hoist one for a fallen brother tonight.
Good night, sweet prince. The rest is silence.
Bad
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:28pm PT
|
Any news of a memorial in the works yet?
I just got off the phone with the mayor. We'll do something next month.
Family araingements haven't happened yet ane I don't know what their nature will be. If there is going to be something public I'l let everyone know when appropriate.
|
|
ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
|
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes to make it possible. This I did." -T.E. Lawrence
There are many people who do not understand why it is we climb. Obviously these people do not climb. For my father it was not just recreation; it was a part of who he was. Climbing did not define his life but it helped to define the qualities in which he strove to live his life by. I would have to say that his greatest accomplishment was raising two kids that did not end up in prison. To move was to live and no one can say he let his life pass him by like his Mini Cooper probably did to a lot of you on the road. My father did not cure cancer and he did not bring about world peace; what he did was inspire others and be able to say that he has touched the sky.
I would like to thank all of you who have expressed your condolences but more importantly your respect and regard for my father, which he would have thought the very highest of.
Many thanks also go out to all involved with the rescue effort and to Wendell and Albert for all of their help. Also, Chris thank you for the home page banner.
His soul dwells among the crags and peaks. Climb on Dad.
-Tia Stark
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
|
Awesome, Tia. I love your spirit.
Your Dad was a man I respected deeply. Really. I respected not only his climbing, but his intellect.
We all mourn a great man. You should be proud of your Dad, I know you must be.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:13pm PT
|
Your Dad is proud!
|
|
F10
Trad climber
e350
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
|
Amazing words Tia,
Also a welcome to the "real Bill Briggs" and Karen to the Supertopo forum.
It was a pleasure and an honor to meet you and Karen at the house last year with Cynthia. I wish that your first post were under different circumstances. I will have to stop by when I see the flag flying from the house.
James
|
|
Ropeburn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
|
"Tia...
you sure had one hell of a COOL Father..."
The coolest.... who was very proud of his kids. He would be proud today indeed.
Blake
|
|
rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
|
|
|
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:56pm PT
|
Nice words Tia, sorry for your loss.
Bill & Karen, Robert & Hilde here, sorry for your loss as well. Hope all is well. Please stop by the ranch anytime your in town. I promise we will drop by your place when we see the flag next time.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:02am PT
|
Tia, that was quite beautiful.
|
|
nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:05am PT
|
ok..... now I'm gonna cry.
|
|
johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:16am PT
|
I'm so sorry to hear about this.
My deepest and most heartfelt condolences to all of his family and all of his friends.
May everyone come to peace with this in time.
The rainbow that makes up ST will never be the same without the hues that Woody brought to it.
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:38am PT
|
I am deeply saddened with the loss of my dear friend Woody. He was an exceptional man, a man that very few could fill his shoes.
We became friends over ten years ago and it has been quite a ride.
At this time, I am just too distraught to write more than a few lines. But a thank you to all of you who have emailed me, I appreciate it at this time.
He was an amazing man and he was more than just a friend to me, I need some time but will write more later.
Karen
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 01:43am PT
|
Wow! So Sad!!
Best wishes and condolences to all who knew him. He was an inspiration.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 03:09am PT
|
hey there tia.... say, thank you so very much for sharing about your beloved father...
as you already know, we have all been very sad about this... how much more-so, his own daughter, and son.. and family...
we will be praying for grace and strength to follow you through this awful sadness...
god bless you richly, for a sound and well future...
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 09:51am PT
|
Bump for Woody. With so many only beginning to grieve, let's keep his thread near the top so it's easy to find.
|
|
nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:27pm PT
|
I'm sorry that he's gone, but happy that he touched so many people's lives in such a positive way. What a wonderful legacy! I hope that is some comfort and it makes it easier for the folks closest to him to deal with the grief and loss.
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
|
Thanks for posting, Tia. That was a great note.
Nice of you to share with ST--
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:35pm PT
|
That was beautiful Tia... blessings to you and your brother.
Eric
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
|
Yesterday I was with Tia in Woody's house. I happened to see a note pad where Woody had made notes of his future climbing goals. One of which was to climb the first week of April in Arizona with locker, he also noted Alaska and Europe.
I am still crying for Woody, both for his premature death and my own sorrow, it hurts so much knowing we'll never have our nearly daily talks, it is those chats I will miss the most. No one quite has the intellect, sense of humor and knowledge of history, philosophy, literature and politics like Woody.
God bless his soul.
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
|
Karen
I wish you the best. I wish there were some way
I could ease your grief, or knew what to say to
help you through this terrible time.
Take care and be well.
|
|
nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 12:48pm PT
|
Karen, you are breaking my heart. Wish i could give you a hug and hold your hand. sending love..xoxo nita.
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
|
Sad news. My sincere condolences to Woody's family and his climbing partners and friends.
Roger
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
|
hey there dear tia and karen... going through the house of loved one is very very hard and sad...
i had my home torn apart with an emotional loss, but not a death... however in some ways, it very much felt like it...
hold each other close as you go through things and cherish your time together as if a special mission--then, someday you will look back at this joint-time and effort as a rare treasure--as if seeing part of the inner-man, of your father/woody...
you have all kind of back up from all of us in prayer, good wishes, thoughts and all...
ps--when my dear auntie fell through the ice and died, alone, near about a year back, my mom was not there when the house was having its "innards" salvaged by loved one...
she was still just as devestated, as this was her "loved" place in the woods to see her sister (all the memories of who she was, are there, and what they shared)...
whether from up close, or from afar... you can feel the sadness, as this last "proof" of one's lost life is delt with... i will reaaly be praying hard for you... :(
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
|
We love you...
In the middle of summer, had the place to ourselves..
Woody loved his cats, here is Sasha
He loved JT
Another JT lead by Woody..
What a guy, he could pull of the whole rugged mtn man look..
Another pic of his loved cats..
Taken before the infamous Hair Raiser climb...see the other thread the t*r posted for my story of this day!!!
I have many pictures but they need to be scanned. Rock on, or should I say, BELAY ON Woody!!!!
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 02:46pm PT
|
Thanks, Karen. Great photos.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
|
Good stuff, Karen.
I'm curious who's going to take care of his cats.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
|
Thank you for the photos Karen, and your insights about Woody.He was a lucky man to have such loving people in his life.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
|
Great photos Karen - thanks for sharing them. I hope you are taking care of yourself as well. :(
Among the things I'll miss are his humorous discussions about his cats - they always cracked me up!
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 04:50pm PT
|
Thanks for all the pictures and stories.
|
|
jaystone
Trad climber
EDH, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 05:02pm PT
|
So Sad! RIP
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
|
Bump for the Woodster...
|
|
Zone Dweller
Trad climber
Mesa, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
|
To be remembered like this; what a great tribute to a well loved climber.
RIP Woody
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
|
This is the same story that was posted in the Inland Empire News. It is completely factualy wrong.
Don't they bother to read the written statement from the only eye witness?
Why can't they just say it's still under investigation?
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 08:59pm PT
|
hey there tgt... say, can't folks get them to make a re-traction or an appology over wrongly stated news...?
perhaps you can try and reach the editor... it seems very wrong... in rare cases i have seen folks print an appology... perhaps you could try, as you were there...
if so, best wishes in the endeavor... etc...
*especially since woody had such a long history of having a good name....
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 09:00pm PT
|
Pardon me interrupting this thread,
I would very much appreciate if we could get the actual information on what really happened. Someone could start a new thread please.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 09:34pm PT
|
Werner,
My concern right now is with all the survivors. We can discuss what happened for the next 30 years and it will never be as important as what we do right now for those that loved him.
I'm working on it, but it isn't easy. I'm not innoculated to the carnage. It isn't my day job.
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
|
TGT-- take your time. Bad enough to do that sort of work when you do it all the time. When it's an occasional necessity, and involves folks you know, it's even worse.
I like the photos in the thread-- friends and family and fun.
I didn't even really know the guy, and I'm not keen to see the analysis begin.
Here's one possibility: Maybe, when folks are ready, we could shift the incident analysis over to RC. Woody wasn't a regular there, and it could give some distance.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 11:31pm PT
|
klk, I disagree, many of Woody's friends like me wanna know what happend and we wanna share what to do better here.
Woody would probably want that too.
|
|
Port
Trad climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2009 - 11:36pm PT
|
Seems to me someone should begin a separate thread for an analysis of what happened on Sunday and leave this open for those who wish to commemorate Woody's life.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 11:48pm PT
|
hey there port... say, werner made a very polite note about that being done, if possible...
perhaps soon... you all have been very patient...
god bless to you all... as you are climbers and you can near feel the fall yourselves...
:(
edit: i'm sorry all, i just was feeling bad for everyone... those that need to be alone, and those that want to know what happened to their friend..
it all just hurts break's everyones heart... very sorry if i over stepped here... from trying to share a patient note for the ones that need to know more, though all this...
over and out now, as to that duty...
|
|
the museum
Trad climber
Rapid City, SD
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 11:51pm PT
|
Thank you Woody..RIP
|
|
Paul_in_Van
Trad climber
Near Squampton
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2009 - 11:55pm PT
|
So sad. RIP Woody Stark.
My thoughts are with all his loved ones from the many facets of his life and legacy.
Paul
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 12:44am PT
|
Well, ST and RC are set up differently, by design. They each have their plusses and minuses, particular adherents, etc. The one thing RC does have (and ST does not) is specific forums where discussions are categorized. RC clearly differentiates between "Memorial" posts which serve to eulogize a fallen friend and "Accident Analysis" posts which attempt to figure out what might have led to a particular accident. This was done specifically at RC so that speculative comments, related to an accident (that some might find insensitive) would not be posted together with the eulogies.
Curt
|
|
tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 12:54am PT
|
Woody is missed. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.
Curt. ST is a campfire. People sitting around it lost a friend. Respect that.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 12:56am PT
|
So there's no speculation on RC 'analysis' threads, Curt? There's no idiotic noob's saying what "should've been done if I was there?".
I'm not trying to be a dick, Curt, I'm just sayin' climbers always second guess and criticize. We're trying to minimize that here. It's a climbers nature to do the analysis because we try to overcome problems.
The man who died was a friend of many. We just want to wait and get a full account before everybody and their gym-climber start to criticize what happend.
Be patient, you'll get the details.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 12:57am PT
|
The Gov. report reads:
Mr. Stark was the lead climber on the Great Burrito rock formation and was being followed by Alfred Kuok. Experiencing difficulty with his climb, Stark began to descend. During the descent he lost his grip and fell. As he fell, Stark struck Alfred Kuok causing him to fall as well. Mr. Kuok’s protection held arresting his fall, but Curtis Stark continued to fall suffering fatal head injuries when he struck the ground. It is estimated Stark fell about 100 feet."
Though I'm sure the errors in this report were totally unintentional, it shows how badly things can go when an anaylsis is rushed and prepared by someone with a limited understanding of how belay systems functionally work. Until a reliable source describes the accident with all the details clearly stated, there is no chance at forensic accuracy, or even anything that makes sense.
JL
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:03am PT
|
"...So there's no speculation on RC 'analysis' threads, Curt? There's no idiotic noob's saying what "should've been done if I was there?"..."
I believe what I pointed out is that RC separates the "speculative" posts (which go in the "Accident Analysis" forum) from the eulogizing posts which are posted elsewhere. That's really the only point I was trying to make.
And, I'm not talking about "here," I'm talking about "there."
Curt
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:06am PT
|
"...Curt...
and your POINT at POINTING that out here is WHAT again???..."
Sorry, I was following up on klk's earlier post that perhaps RC was a better forum to look into what happened.
Curt
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:10am PT
|
Curt, just wait for TGT's report.
Again, I'm not trying to be a dick, just wait.
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:15am PT
|
No. Neither you nor bluering are being dicks. I understand and respect your opinions and feelings completely. I'm also very sad about your loss.
Curt
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:25am PT
|
Addressing the information controversy. Eventually what happened will be made known. Why does not someone that knows and loves Woody put this out for the general public to note.
Even if it is not perfect for what transpired....it does not matter. No human Is perfect in every act on this planet. Woodie more than obviously gave his life 100%. This man inspired Many. I wanted to climb with him....and I am a climbing safety freak.
Cheers to the Woodster and all the love and inspiration he Gave to people, climbing and life on this planet. Peace, Lynnie
|
|
ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:43am PT
|
Hey kids,
I understand all of your speculation and curiosity about my father. Please let us get the man buried before the vultures can swarm down any more.
Thanks.
-Tia
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 01:55am PT
|
We understand that, Tia, all of us here!
We're just tryin to keep the other sites respectable.
We love ya, Tia.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 02:07am PT
|
Tia, you're obviously a smart woman. Don't let people's speculation and thoughts get you down. There will be some idiots who will judge your Dad. There are a lot of people who respected you Dad. Those who respected your Dad outweigh the idiots by a large margin....
The latin saying is illegitimi non carborundum ....
That means, don't let the fools bring you down...remember that!
|
|
Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 09:04am PT
|
condolences to all Woody's friends and family members. he was an inspiring character in many regards, and i'm sorry i never got a chance to meet him at the crag.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 10:12am PT
|
As climbers, we all naturally want to know what happened in any accident. We hope that knowledge will help to prevent our own catastrophes from occurring. Especially in a case like this. My thoughts are that if this can happen to Woody, what chance do I have to survive this sport?
But we can wait, as Tia says, out of respect for Woody and his family.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 10:34am PT
|
Lots of natural human behavior here. Lots of shock and grieving and sadness. Clearly natural behavior. Lots of wondering 'what happened??' It is often one of the first things that people ask when a tragedy happens. Natural human behavior.
I see no vultures here - just hurting people. Gratuitous vulture like behavior would be squashed in a second here at the taco.
|
|
just passing thru
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 11:03am PT
|
"I understand all of your speculation and curiosity about my father. Please let us get the man buried before the vultures can swarm down any more."
This thread went from heartfelt to grim in record time.
'but we need to analyze the situation so we can learn from it'
Truly pathetic, have some respect.
RIP Woody
|
|
craig mo
Trad climber
L.A. Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 11:53am PT
|
Woody was the real deal
I would have liked to climb with you
Rest in peace.
Craig
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
|
Climbing Accidents happen. Its the nature of the sport. Given the right chain of events tragedy occurs. The Best climbers and worst climbers make mistakes, or sh#t just happens. I myself have been very lucky that when I did screw up backup systems came into play.
No one is to blame. Climbing is dangerous or we would no do it.
God's Speed Woody.
Juan
|
|
KyleO
Ice climber
Calgary, AB
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
|
Pancho and Lefty - Willie and Merle
Living on the road my FRIEND, is gonna keep you FREE and CLEAN.
Now you wear your skin like iron, and your breath is hard as kerosene.
You weren't your mama's only boy, but her favourite one it seems.
She began to cry when you said goodbye, and sank into your DREAMS.
Pancho was a BANDIT BOY, his horse was fast as polished steel.
He wore his gun outside his pants, for all the honest world to feel.
Pancho met his match, you know, on the deserts down in Mexico.
Nobody heard his dying words; ah, but that's the way it goes.
All the Federales say,
They could have had him any day.
They only let him slip away,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
Lefty, he can't sing the blues all night long like he used to.
The dust that Pancho bit down south ended up in Lefty's mouth.
The day they laid poor Pancho low, Lefty split for Ohio.
Where he got the bread to go, there ain't nobody knows.
All the Federales say,
They could have had him any day.
They only let him slip away,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
The POETS tell how Pancho fell, and Lefty's living in cheap hotels.
The desert's quiet, Cleveland's cold, and so the story ends we're told.
Pancho needs your prayers it's true, but save a few for Lefty too.
He only did what he had to do, and now he's growing old.
(All the Federales say,
They could have had him any day.)
They only go so long,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
A few grey Federales say
They could have had him any day.
They only let him go so long,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
Hey Woody, I never met ya but I was in JTree for the first time last month and I got to climb routes you put up so many years ago. The first route I hopped on when I arrived was Dogleg, such a beautiful route. Cheers bro, rest well.
|
|
TYeary
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
|
No offense ment to anyone, but speculation on just what happened, by individuals, or goverment agencies, leads to mis-information. There will be an accounting of what happened and why. Out of respect to all involved, we should refrain from second guessing until those directly involved have given their full, factual report.
Respectfully,
Tony
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
|
a few years back someone close to me died, and i drew some comfort from this passage.
Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart
and try to love the questions themselves ...
Don't search for the answers,
which could not be given to you now,
because you would not be able to live them.
And the point is, to live everything.
Live the questions now.
Perhaps then, someday far in the future,
you will gradually, without even noticing it,
live your way into the answer.
rainer maria rilke
rest in peace woody.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
|
A balance must be struck between respect for Woody and the grieving that we all must do, and the need to understand what happened.
When someone close to us is hurt or killed (especially when climbing related), it is natural to want to know why it happened, to help make sense of a seemingly random event. To not know is confusing and heightens the fears that we all have- this need to know should not be considered 'vulturous behavior', as long as it is done in a respectful manner.
The need to know is what tends to result in speculative, inaccurate media reports- the media responds as quickly as possible simply because people want information as soon as possible. Woody's accident is frightening and a reality check for us all of the tenuousness of life- information about it helps to rationalize those fears.
For right now, I concur that it is most appropriate for the emphasis to be placed on the appreciation and remembrance for Woody, while the investigation is being completed. It sounds as though Wendell is doing a good job of gathering this information, and I suggest that speculation about this tragedy be withheld until good, solid information can be made available. From what I knew of Woody via his presence here on ST, this seems completely consistent with his personality.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
|
....and if I may tag onto apogee's thought, let's put the information, details and analyses of the accident in another thread at the appropriate time.
gm
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
|
i fully agree that people asking, "what happened, what happened!" are a bit out of line.
there are always things to be learned from these unfortunate events (and sometimes from more fortunate the events too), but there is simply no urgency in that interest.
the people involved are dealing with stuff. they should deal with their own stuff. they should be allowed to deal with their own stuff. when they feel like sharing some of their stuff, that's the time to be interested, not before.
just look at the resource the AAC publishes in ANAM-
it's not important how long before the publishing any of those incidents occurred. the information is out there and it's helpful to all of us in many ways, but the time-line is not what makes it valuable.
what's more, if anything at all happened that could have been prevented by this or by that, it doesn't spoil anyone's memory of anyone else or tarnish anyone's legacy (as a person or as a rock climber).
we all play a dangerous game.
there are lots of ways to make the game safer (or make it seem safer?), but those are not the only ways the game is played, and we all know it.
best wishes and blessings to everyone who could use a few extra.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
|
Because experiences like this are so unhappy one naturally wants to learn as much as possible. Otherwise there is absolutely nothing positive. Two things I have learned:
1. After climbing for awhile without getting injured or worse it gets too easy to forget what it is that can happen in a split second. Woody's accident is re-normalizing us all as we type.
2. In the day to day rush we lose sight of what is at risk when we take a chance. Quite unbeknownst to us, each of us affects the people around us and they invariably feel the loss when we go. When we contemplate taking a risk we need to take them also into consideration.
Woody was important to us.
Now we have to go on.
|
|
Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 06:18pm PT
|
I see a lot of people saying "condolences but we need details so we can learn", and while I see where they're coming from, it's pretty obvious the people who know the details AREN'T ready to discuss it yet, so why don't the people in the former category give it a rest? It seems clear the constant nagging isn't going to get you information...
Still keeping everyone in my thoughts.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
|
hey there locker... say, i have seen also, what the media does... very sad...
say, back when rodeo cowboy lane frost died... media folks jumped in...
it started for good, as there was a movie made...
but---SADLY SO--they did not stick to facts and sadly even more so, they were supposed to...
they worse yet, made the father look like a bad-guy...
:(
well--all in all, it DID lead the family making a website of truth...
and the REAL STORY of lane frost's life is now able to be found... he loved the lord and was a good to all that he met...
and---he did not have a bad relationship with his dad or his wife...
AND THE BIGGEST "HE DID NOT"
was---he did not turn his back on the bull, the way they showed it...(making him look VAIN and neglegent)
real film clips prooved this, in the rodeo archives...
media can sure mess up, seems worse so when hollywood gets into it, and big bucks are a foot...
:(
well, just sharing, as so many other have suffered this way, too... stay strong, all....
|
|
Steve L
climber
Sur
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 07:00pm PT
|
One of my fondest Woody memories came a few years back. Woody, locker, a young lady (her name escapes my memory now), and I were meeting in JT for a day of fun. I was late driving out from LA, so the gang left word at CC as to where they would be climbing, and headed for the crag. About thirty minutes later I was running up the hillside to meet everyone at Cowboy Crags. Light headed from the hurried scramble up, I finally reached the group only to look upon the monstrosity that I would soon be climbing. Woody was already on lead, Locker was on belay, and the young lady was looking at the ground, too afraid to look at the dynamic duo in action. The climb went up a flake about 30 feet to a rusty old quarter incher, from there the route traversed left a ways to a second rusty old quarter incher, then to a crack to the top of the formation. Aside from being rusty and old the second bolt was a good 10 feet too far on the traverse to prevent the leader from decking on the sharp boulders below. Oh and did I mention that the route probably hadn't been climbed in twenty years? As Woody slipped and slid his way across to the second bolt, the ground party was treated to a shower of bb's from under his feet. I'm not sure who was more scared, Woody climbing on marbles, or us holding our breath below. As always, he fuking stuck the moves, made the clip and finished the climb. Locker seconded and then it was my turn. I nearly sh-t my pants on the traverse. All I could think was how the fuk did he nail that? That memory always makes me smile and shake my head. Remembering that balls to the wall approach has gotten me through many an Elvis leg.
Some of the posts from that day should still be on Mountain Project. Cling Peaches 5.9R (yeah right)
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 07:19pm PT
|
We all miss Woody.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 07:32pm PT
|
Hey Locker,
Woody thought it was kind of cool to have at least one "grown up" around here.
The reactions to her posts were fodder for between route discussions in the gym.
He kinda liked having her around.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 07:47pm PT
|
This is getting crazy.
Locker, my friend, ease down.
Lois, you've said your piece, but to some you don't fit. This is a time to respect that.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 08:18pm PT
|
There have been threads here and elsewhere about deaths of those I've never met that deeply affected me.
Lois will always be at the outer fringe of the campfire, but she's still a fringe member and Woody liked her.
Now Lois,
Don't start in with the keyboard diharea or I might change my mind.
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
|
Woody looks down from heaven ......and chuckles.........If it had to do with climbing, politics, history, or education;.....Woody was on it.......and Woody seemed to more than "put up" with our B.S......he seemed to enjoy it;.....carry on...............................................
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
|
(as an aside, are we about to witness the ULTIMATE in ST thread lowest-ification?)
nothing like a twisted but compelling distraction to keep one's mind of of grief...
very well-
carry on.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 08:41pm PT
|
"and Woody seemed to more than "put up" with our B.S......he seemed to enjoy it;"
I have to admit that I only recently realized that Woody sometimes wrote things with the intent of egging people on(to make a fool of themselves). It was, to him, I think, a real source of amusement. I can't recall him ever doing it to ME specifically..... hmmmm, better change the subject quickly. hahahaha
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 09:40pm PT
|
Bump to keep this climbing-related thread on the first page...
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 09:46pm PT
|
I wish this was all just a sick joke. Damn it, I miss you Woody !!!!
|
|
paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
|
My condolences to the family and friends - this is so very sad.
-Tom
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
|
By Woody Stark
Jan 28, 2005
rating: 5.10a
I led this route last weekend. I rate it 10a, and that's a reduction from what others that day would have rated it. Giving it an R is not adequate; it's X. If you don't quite get to the second bolt, you ground. We even back belayed all who followed. It's a great route; however, the bolts need to be replaced and at least one added.
By Woody Stark
Jan 29, 2005
rating: 5.10a
Okay, let me put it this way: there is a point between the two bolts on the traverse where the belayer might as well put the rope down and take a nap because his attention is no longer an issue.
That collection of posts from mountain project is rad .
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2009 - 10:50pm PT
|
Don't think this Great Guy that all of us respect would dig the jazz between Lois and Locker....he would have had the right words to diffuse it....I don't. But it is somehow disrespectful....and yo can blast me out of the water for saying so, but I strongly feel it is time to come together.... not argue, fight and quibble over sheeee. Peace, Lynne
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 12:12am PT
|
Did Woody have any particular charities he liked to support? Some may like to honor his memory with a donation.
Or, and I hope this doesn't come across in any way other than well-meaning - perhaps donations for the care of his beloved cats.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 12:32am PT
|
Karen, I'm so sorry and sad for your loss and pain. Words try to be meaningful, but are so not always able to touch the deep places of the heart that hurt so very much. If you need some one to talk to please feel free to email me or call me anytime night or day. I am on call 24/7 so calls in the middle of the night don't faze me and I'm a good listener. Praying for you and Woody's family and the numbness you are probably feeling. Lynne
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 12:34am PT
|
Just re-read the Mountain Project post above. It brought back Woody's wonderful direct and honest style. It was impossible not to respect his opinions and as a result welcome his comments. I regret never having taken the oportunity to tie in with him; it would have been a fun time.
|
|
James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 03:08am PT
|
Sad News. My condolensces to his many friends and his large family of climbers and kin.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 04:18am PT
|
I feel very badly and worse I feel bad for his family, friends, pardners.
LEB STFU!!!
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 04:21am PT
|
LEB has poisened threads before about climbing accidents.
this one is personal, as if the others were not bad enough(they are personal for someone).
so LEB STFU!!!
i like reading the stories about woody. as a 50 something clikmber wiht over 30 yrs under my belt, i get it...
|
|
ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 11:56am PT
|
"Did Woody have any particular charities he liked to support? Some may like to honor his memory with a donation. "
My brother and I have decided that in lieu of flowers, etc. we would like donations to be made to the JOSAR and/or the Access Fund.
Thanks.
Memorial in the works.
-Tia
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 01:56pm PT
|
Thanks, Tia, for taking the time to answer about donations.
I'll be in Joshua Tree next week. One of the things I will definitely do is pledge in his name to JOSAR.
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
|
Those are both worthy ways of remembering Woody.
I think people know how to find the Access Fund.
Here is a link re: JOSAR:
http://www.josar.org/support.htm
According to that page, they get their donations via Friends of Joshua Tree.
The link to FoJT is dead on the JOSAR page. Here is a working link I found:
http://www.friendsofjosh.org/?page_id=13
But it's not clear how to donate. Perhaps someone with more info can clear this up?
Eric
|
|
darod
Big Wall climber
South Side Billburg
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 03:45pm PT
|
R.I.P. Woody...
|
|
originalpmac
Trad climber
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
|
to quote a few lines from a Ween song about Jerry Garcia "... I never knew the man, but he was a good friend of mine.. so long, I'll see you down that long dark river, floating on that island in the sky... I was lucky, lucky enough to have heard you sing your song, so long (Jerry) so long.."
I never met Woody, but I believe I have shared a few forum discussions with him. Losing people is a hard, hard thing. I lost my mom to cancer when I was sixteen, and about a month ago, I took a thirty foot ground fall and managed only to sprain my ankle and bruise some bones. I feel for his family and all of his friends, and I hope everyone will be okay in time.
Best to you all
Pierce
|
|
Steve L
climber
Sur
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
|
It was an Asian girl...forget her name. The one whose Jaguar got stuck in the snow storm in Section 6. LOL!!! Could it have been that same weekend??
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 06:05pm PT
|
Hey Fletcher
I went to the second website, and it appears you
need to send a check to their PO box.
That's what I'll do, anyway.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 06:28pm PT
|
Granite, I wouldn't have them remove their posts. (or yours)
Woody's whole point was usualy to prevoke them into making fools of themselves.
Don't let them remove the evidence.
|
|
Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
|
|
|
Mar 20, 2009 - 07:36pm PT
|
Thanks SteveW. I was scanning for a link. I can send a check too, that works.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 12:49am PT
|
Hey, Locker and the other desert denizens.
Has anyone got a hold of 5.8 Szu and the bunch at Country Kitchen?
I can't remember her name right now, but she must be devistated.
|
|
Ropeburn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 01:14am PT
|
Are you talking about the gal that runs the CK? Don't know the spelling of her name but it was pronounced Marion or something like that.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 01:33am PT
|
Yeah! He had his own table complete with photos there.
|
|
mdavid
Big Wall climber
CA, CO, TX
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 03:09am PT
|
Very sad, full life though, hope i will be as active at his age
How about his cats? If we can collectively ensure they don't end up at the pound i bet he'd appreciate that.
Are his family or close friends taking them in?
|
|
ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 03:16am PT
|
"How about his cats? If we can collectively ensure they don't end up at the pound i bet he'd appreciate that."
We're taking care of the cats...
It's called the Peruvian exercise program in which the high mountain air will cause them to lose about ten pounds each....
But in seriousness, not to worry, they're going to loving homes.
-Tia
|
|
Ropeburn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 03:39am PT
|
Tia,
I'm sure they are in good hands, but if there is any need, Sue and I will take them with no problems. Remember, we're just a few miles down the road and Matty, (the Haralson cat) would be able to tolerate them and take them in with open paws.
Wendell,
Regarding the table at the CK: Last year, when I brought my grandson Riley to climb with us we sat at that table - not that there was other choices available. Riley scoped out the photos of the Woodman doing DD and asked "Pepa,...is Woody famous?" I think my answer was "kinda".
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 04:49am PT
|
you guys are awesome...
|
|
Bigjim
Trad climber
La Verne, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
|
I climbed with Woody at the beginning in the 1960s. He was not only a great climber. He was a great friend who would do anything to help a friend in need. I had a stroke in 1994 and after I returned home from rehab, Woody drove 40 miles to visit me at least once a week for over a year just to chat and have lunch together.
He will be missed by all who knew him, not just the climbers.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 01:54pm PT
|
Big Jim Foote is the one on the Left then Woody and Dick Webster
He sent me this photo yesterday.
|
|
climberShane
Trad climber
Simi Valley, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
|
My deepest sympathies to Woody's friends and family. While I never met him face to face, I exchanged a few posts with him (who didn't??).
Escaping corporate hell and heading to JTree on weekends, there's something very reassuring about the "regular" things out there: Nomads, the crowds at Corral on cold days, and the thought that old-schoolers like Woody are in the park somewhere, still cranking hard.
One comment on the media: I work in Marketing and PR, and I've come to accept one irrefutable fact about the press -- they ALWAYS screw up the story. To hell with 'em.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 05:04pm PT
|
Bigjim / TGT - great photo! So nice to see the team in their heyday. It reminds me of my dad in the early 60s!
|
|
Redwreck
Social climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 05:26pm PT
|
It's hard, maybe impossible, to get the full measure of another human being. But reading the tributes here by those who knew Woody gives me a pretty good idea of what he was all about. I'm grateful to get to "know" him a little better while at the same time being terribly sad about the circumstances.
For sure, though, he made his mark through a life well lived, and will live on in the hearts and souls of those that knew him, and in the routes he pioneered. One really can't ask for much more than that.
|
|
MH2
climber
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
|
Thanks to everyone for providing an idea of the man. He sounds like a straight-ahead guy. The "trying to lieback everything" says a lot, and his nerves and general demeanor seem to have been a bit like Pete Cleveland's.
A few lines from a wonderful sketch of a unique person:
He was out climbing whenever he could, and not just repeating the same old fluff. In recent times, he pioneered new routes at Josh, pushed his own limits and standards, and pulled off some pretty impressive leads.
we formed a cohesive group that worked well, particularly in mountaineering where it's essential.
Hell, it can't last forever.
Watching him lead out past a fuking little 2k knifeblade on what we figured must have been at least 10c, then taking a fall on it, somehow it stayed put, and right the fuk back up he went and he bagged it...
I could only top him on opera
I would have to say that his greatest accomplishment was raising two kids that did not end up in prison.
|
|
aldude
climber
Monument Manor
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 07:18pm PT
|
As per the thread name - WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?????
|
|
aldude
climber
Monument Manor
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 07:35pm PT
|
Do tell.... it's time.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 07:43pm PT
|
Sorry guys, but I've been a little preoccupied with helping everyone pick up the pieces, do my part to keep a small buisiness afloat in desperate times, and dealing with it myself. The ripples of this have gone farther across the pond of life than our own little circle. They are just now reflecting back.
This was not a complicated accident on a purely physical level. Ones like it happen all the time in every type of endeavor.
Expressing it so everyone learns something and doesn't blow it off as, " couldn't happen to me" isn't easy.
The offical version I've heard will be out in a couple of weeks.
I should finish up tomorrow and next week after Tia, Woody Jr. and Al have had a chance to see it, I'll post.
|
|
Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
|
TGT: It seems like if there was immediate and pressing danger to the climbing community (bolt failure rendering the climb in question unclimbable, a huge rock failure in J-Tree, etc.), you would have let us know.
Take time to pick up the pieces and work through your grief a little.
Probably doesn't matter that much if we hear it today or if we hear it next week.
|
|
Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 09:20pm PT
|
Oh yeah, to clarify, I guess I would hope that if the climb in question no longer had any bolts at all, someone would have communicated this.
I don't think it's a particularly well-done climb, but getting caught on it if the bolts have been ripped might not be the best...
I'm taking Locker's quotation to mean this ISN'T the case so the hounds barking for details can back off a bit.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
|
This was a common collective human failing, not a hardware issue.
There's still an important lesson for all of us. Effectively expressing it so there's a benificial result is not as simple as just describing how something broke.
|
|
Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
|
Sounds like it. Trying to send love to J-Tree.
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 10:00pm PT
|
I'm fine never seeing the report. Mistakes happen. Be careful. I never met Woody, but really sorry to hear he's gone. Cosmic, Locker... doods, sorry man. RIP Woody.
|
|
S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 10:18pm PT
|
I echo the above statement.
|
|
TYeary
climber
|
|
|
Mar 21, 2009 - 11:43pm PT
|
There were only two people at the belay and only one who can talk about what went wrong. When he's ready, I'm sure Al will field all questions with honesty, humility, and tact. Al has injuries, physical and emotional. He needs our support in rendering a forthwright and accurate recounting of the events. I'm quite sure, he will spend the rest of his life processing this life changing experience, something that ,thankfully, most of us will never have to do. Those of us who have been through this, know exactly what I'm talking about. When the details are made public, there should be no recriminations, no second guessing, and no backlash against anyone. The lesson will be that we never climb alone. We are always a part of a team. Even when we solo, our "team" awaits at home. We never take anything for granted. We second and triple check, we never settle for second best. Nothing can ever be "routine".
Respectfully,
Tony
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 12:08am PT
|
We can all wait. I suspect this is something we can all relate to, making it all the more poignant.
Tomorrow is Sunday, a day when a lot of us will be at the crags. Be extra careful out there tomorrow, if you need a reason, do it in Woody's memory. "Do I have to draw you a map?"
|
|
drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 12:10am PT
|
{{{{TRUE DAT}}}} JAYBRO, be safe people.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 12:21am PT
|
Tyeary said -- "When the details are made public, there should be no recriminations, no second guessing, and no backlash against anyone."
That was my original goal for asking what happened. The reason behind my interest was that there were so many times during my years in this climbing life I came so close to ending up in a body bag myself. Ropes got chopped, I fell out of crack free soloing but my knee miraculously got caught, sliding down into the abyss on ice slope only to have the only tree in sight catch me, and on and on.
So I know that "Sh'it happens" it rears up totally unexpected at times ..... anywhere.
|
|
MisterE
Trad climber
One Place or Another
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 08:43am PT
|
Well put, Tony.
Just go look at the mess on Rockclimbing.com started by that idiot Majit in the accidents forum if you want to see what unchecked speculation about unconfirmed events by thoughtless vultures is all about.
Very happy most of the crew here is much more respectful and considerate.
I love you guys.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 09:56am PT
|
On the one-week mark, my thoughts go to those who loved Woody. Hoping that memories of past good times and poignant moments with him can help ease the pain.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 11:38am PT
|
What this (and the other complimentary thread on Rockclimbing.com) thread shows me that if the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is not forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time, we'll all start floundering in an attempt to pull the facts out of whomever has them, by force if need be. That impulse to get the facts happens iregardless of how anyone feels about it, what is "right" and polite and respectful, cha cha cha. Threats and judgements fly and people are called out but it's all anxiety from being stranded in traffic, so to speak.
I wouldn't put too much hope in any "official" version being clear about the facts. The last one (posted on the Gov. website a few days after the accident) was apparently fabricated or imagind by a novice and did not deal with the actual details (as they have been explained to me by Al and others).
Telling people to chill out and relax and so forth is no longer constructive or viable. I think it's about time to put all this snarky crosstalk to rest, to discuss the facts and move on.
JL
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 11:52am PT
|
JL: "What this (and the other complimentary thread on Rockclimbing.com) thread shows me that if the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is not forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time, we'll all start floundering in an attempt to pull the facts out of whomever has them, by force if need be."
I disagree strongly with this judgment. What this has showed us is that ST will self-police, to a surprising extent, at least if the incident involves someone well known here. I didn't see anything in the conversation over Woody's accident press beyond civility. Werner asked for an accounting, was told one would appear in a few days, and then let it rest.
The clusterf*#k over at RC.Com, on the other hand, demonstrated how badly that site needs moderation. At 2 a.m., the mods locked it down. It took a long time because apparently they were all out climbing. Imperfect, but hardly a disaster.
In this case, it's been what, a week? Think about how long it takes for an official SAR report to appear. Think how long it used to take for ANAM. Yes, the net has accelerated everything, but it is not only tactless but also counter-productive to demand that close family and friends and randoms on the scene jump online and immediately begin to feed the beast.
Most eyewitness accounts are close to worthless, and even those coming from trained eyewitnesses --cops, first responders, etc.--are notoriously difficult to evaluate. In this case, a week isn't much time to wait for reports that will be coming from non-professionals who were directly involved with the victim.
Let's face it, I don't think any of us believe that we are going to learn something that could suddenly change everything we thought we knew about climbing, and that during the week without a report, thousands of innocent n00bs will have put their own lives at risk as a result. I don't see that sort of urgency, and I trust those close to the incident to have shared with us if there were something that demanded urgent attention.
What this episode shows us, is that those of us who have some measure of influence or control over the sites should exercise that influence and control and show that our culture is at least occasionally capable of restraint and reflection and sobriety. The feeding frenzy of f*#ktards over at RC is an embarassment for the sport, and we should do everything we can to prevent it becoming the norm. Folks in other communities-- leo, land management, media --do occasionally take notice.
As for those folks who absolutely can't go a week without morbid details, f*#k them.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 12:03pm PT
|
klk expresses my feeling totally.
You all lived BITD without knowing the minute details of accidents to people you had never met nor heard of previously.
What I HAVE learned from this death and the internet response is that I will be extremely careful in posting to any such threads in the future, with a FIRST priority being those left behind.
I hope I have always been sensitive enough to realize there were family members and loved ones reading the threads during the the most fragile time of their grieving periods. They DO. Because it is a way to help process the awful reality that their loved one has passed. But when I think back at some of the *technical* discussions I have read on death and serious accidents in the past, I shudder.
I don't want my remarks, even made inadvertantly, to be the source of pain for someone who is grieving their loss. Woody's passing has given me this awareness and though I would so much rather it have been something he told me with one of his subtle comments in the forums, or out climbing, or sitting in the Country Kitchen or something, I hear it now. To keep this in mind, for me, is a way I can honor Woody's life.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
|
With all due respect! In my opinion we need to learn WTF actually happend. If I were as close to Woody as many here at the taco stand were, I would want to make sure that the tribe (old school and noobs alike) learns from the terrible miss hap that took Woody. We as climbers need and disserve to know.
If for some reason I ever go in, please give respect to my loved ones and those close to me first, then report the technical information and facts about what happend. Then learn from my mistake or if there was gear failure analize it and fix the problem. This information is key to help reduce the odds for the rest of us.
If We have to wait for the report in ANAM so be it.
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 12:57pm PT
|
Thanks to all of you who have shown restraint and civility, you have a much higher standard of ethics than those-as one of you so succinctly put it-"those fuktards at RC. com". It is appreciated and shows respect for Woody's kids, myself and his close friends.
Thank you,
Karen
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:11pm PT
|
in response to largo and T2 i am reposting my own comment from earlier in the thread:
"there are always things to be learned from these unfortunate events (and sometimes from the more fortunate events too), but there is simply no urgency in that interest.
the people involved are dealing with stuff. they should deal with their own stuff. they should be allowed to deal with their own stuff. when they feel like sharing some of their stuff, that's the time to be interested, not before.
just look at the resource the AAC publishes in ANAM-
it's not important how long before the publishing any of those incidents occurred. the information is out there and it's helpful to all of us in many ways, but the time-line is not what makes it valuable.
what's more, if anything at all happened that could have been prevented by this or by that, it doesn't spoil anyone's memory of anyone else or tarnish anyone's legacy (as a person or as a rock climber).
we all play a dangerous game.
there are lots of ways to make the game safer (or make it seem safer?), but those are not the only ways the game is played, and we all know it.
best wishes and blessings to everyone who could use a few extra."
just because the internet exists does NOT mean that all information on everything will always be available immediately, nor should it. just go on with your own life, and take this opportunity to demonstrate your own compassion. sooner or later this "need to know" will be in the rear view mirror. any "urgency" here is simply artificial. go watch some college hoops...
|
|
HandCrack
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal.
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:21pm PT
|
I have a bit different view on this topic, one which will no doubt be unsatisfying and unpopular with many.
It wouldn't bother me at all if the details of Woody's accident were never made public. Obviously family and close friends deserve to know what happened but that's as far as it needs to go.
Do we need the examples of someone's mistakes (assuming there were some) to give us more compelling reasons to follow fundamental safety practices? No! Will we learn something we didn't know that will prevent us from making a similar mistake? I doubt it.
If indeed there is something important to be learned from this, it should be told. But unless there is some very real lesson that can help others, I see no reason for the morbid and insatiable curiousity on the part of many.
For me, the only important thing is that a dear friend and father has been lost. At the very least, patience sould be shown for those closest to him.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:23pm PT
|
In response to Matt: Is college hoops that game they play, were guys (usaully african americans) run around and try to throw the big orange ball through the hoop?
As I said in my original post "If We have to wait for the report in ANAM so be it"
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:34pm PT
|
HandCrack wrote:
Do we need the examples of someone's mistakes (assuming there were some) to give us more compelling reasons to follow fundamental safety practices? No! Will we learn something we didn't know that will prevent us from making a similar mistake? I doubt it.
What makes you so sure?
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
|
Handcrack says: Do we need the examples of someone's mistakes (assuming there were some) to give us more compelling reasons to follow fundamental safety practices? No! Will we learn something we didn't know that will prevent us from making a similar mistake? I doubt it.
You are very nieve if you believe this. There are plenty on this forum and abroad that will learn from this tragedy now matter how fundimental or however simple it may seem.
|
|
kwit
climber
california
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
|
I post here every now and then for advice--mostly lurk--and I've been reading this thread because the moments of luminous humanity in it have been captivating and moving to me.
I never knew the man called Woody but he seems like he was a beautiful, fearless, marvelous person who would actually do the things most of us only lie about in chat rooms later and I have tremendous respect for people like that. People like that remind us exactly how far the infinite possibilities of life actually stretch and we need that sometimes.
Anyway, since I've read the whole thread now as largely a vicarious experience, I just wanted to say that as an onlooker I could wait forever for, or go without entirely, the details of the accident. I can't even imagine the pain some people are in right now, and expecting them to reproduce the details of that accident for a culture of critics seems like, well, expecting unfair and inhumane things.
We've all read about the myriad things that can go wrong in climbing, and we also know what can go so euphorically right. So we try hard and thoughtfully for the latter while being cautious and aware of the former, and beyond that, we can only just hope.
wishing everyone hope,
k
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:49pm PT
|
"Handcrack says: 'Do we need the examples of someone's mistakes (assuming there were some) to give us more compelling reasons to follow fundamental safety practices? No! Will we learn something we didn't know that will prevent us from making a similar mistake? I doubt it.'
You are very n[ai]ve if you believe this. There are plenty on this forum and abroad that will learn from this tragedy now matter how fund[a]mental or however simple it may seem."
I don't find it naive at all. I don't think much at all gets learned from the vast majority of incidents reported annually in ANAM. There are occasional events in which we learn about modalities of failure that we hadn't previously known about. But the vast majority of accidents teach us nothing technical that couldn't already have been found in stacks of published literature.
The vast majority of accidents are pilot error of one sort or another. Most of the rest involve unexpected objective danger (i.e. rockfall in areas not known for rockfall hazard, etc.) A very tiny but important percentage involve other factors that are new to us.
Personally, I don't expect any revelations from this particular case. I do understand the desire of those to build empirical casebooks of as many accidents as possible, if only for future use as data. And in any event, any fatal accident of this sort is publicly documented by a variety of different agencies regardless of our personal preferences. That process is legally necessary but invariably painful to those who knew the victims as something more than numbers or case studies.
As for what happens here at ST, we control that ourselves.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:49pm PT
|
I have never learned how to or how not to do something from ANAM.
WOW!
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
|
hey T2- sorry if i misunderstood your intent earlier
cheers
-matt
edit
i personally have learned more about what to do or not to do from ANAM than rom any other resource, w/ the possible exception of "experience".
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
|
Re: locker's post
OMG
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
|
So locker is indirectly giving the report ....?
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 02:03pm PT
|
It was already reported (elsewhere) several days ago...
|
|
S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
|
"We as climbers need and disserve to know"
A "Need" is something we need to survive, TGT and others would have let us know if something about this accident was a "need". Deserve, I believe is what you meant, and why do we deserve anything? we earned nothing, in fact all we did was lose. It's funny you typed the word disserve because it means to treat poorly, or provide bad service. I think pressing people to do something they are not comfortable with, at a time like this, will do nothing but disserve the climbing community as a whole.
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 02:20pm PT
|
I'm struggling to resist stating the obvious, because I'll have a bunch of people hating me...
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
|
Yes S.Powers That is a typo on my part. I intended to use the word deserve.
I feel we as climbers deserve to know because even if as we all know "complacency kills" If ever go in in this fasion please all be reminded on my behalf.
All I have tried to say is we need to know. I never said anything about when. It is only my opinion that I voiced. I am sorry to offend anyone not my intention.
Locker: I get the feeling you are yelling at me for doing this. I have tied to expressed nothing but respect in my posts and if you think otherwise, sorry. I don't want to upset you in paticular to much considering you have a pair of my favorite shoes.
I wouldn't even be on this damn computer today if it wasn't raining out.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
|
I'm so glad Tami won't have to get the pencils out...
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 03:05pm PT
|
Nature abhors a vacuum and people will continue to draw their own conclusions and speculate until something more factually detailed is provided--that's just human nature. This is the general type of thing that is needed:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1322341
The point is not to assess blame or cast anyone in a poor light. The point is to figure out exactly what happened and what lessons might be learned.
Curt
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
|
I was very accident-prone as a kid. I have plenty of scars to prove it.
I'm STILL accident prone - always banging my head on things, ect.
I was still pretty new to climbing when Mike Sofranko was killed in a rappelling accident.
I only knew him from his posts on rec.climbing (and in fact we engaged in a few flame-wars).
I needed to know what happened. Yes, I NEEDED to know for my sake and for the sake of others.
After my request for info went unheeded, a rec.climber was kind enough to e-mail the details.
It's too bad the details were never made public, because it HELPED ME IMMENSELY.
A good friend of mine was tying his knot at the gym when he was distracted by some bimbo
flirting with him (in front of his girlfriend!). As a result of the distraction, he failed to finish his
tie-in knot, and when he got to the top, he leaned back, and fell 30 feet, landing on a wooden bench.
His injuries were hideous, even worse than my tib/fib compound fracture that left a 16 inch scar.
He needed lots of surgery, and very nearly lost his leg due to complications.
Ever since, I have been freakishly obsessive about checking, double-checking, and triple-checking
tie-in knots, and made sure that I weighted the rope atop a climb WHILE STILL HOLDING ON
before committing to a rappel or being lowered. It seems elementary, but lots of people just
blithely sit back at the top of a climb without CONFIRMING that they are being held by the rope!
Sorry if this offends anybody by it being posted to this thread.
This stuff (still) happens all the time, and the more people freaked out about it, the better.
RIP Woody!
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 03:23pm PT
|
Yea I hear ya locker and I am aware of how touchy the subject matter is. I did not have the pleasure of knowing woody but felt a sense of loss just the same.
I remember when I got plucked off of never never land back in 04' when the japaneese folks died. I was bombarded with reporters after getting out of chopper paparazzi style asking about details. Never knowing the climbers that lost there life, I still felt a deep sense of loss just the same. All the media cameras got fromm me for the evening news was my middle finger. It was actualy kind of funny, they where so bumbed we wouldn't talk to them. But on the same hand I wanted to know why and how the fallen climbers parished. Turns out that exposer to the elements is what got them. We all know how not having the right clothes and sleeping arrangements can kill ya, but a sombering reminder is allways welcome in my book.
"Your AOK in my book to Locker"
|
|
Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 03:23pm PT
|
A lot of beating around the bush here. WTF Happened?
I have had this accident on my mind all week. My friend in S&R carried Woody out. I feel bad for all of you who were close to Woody and his loving family. It's a tragedy in real time.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 03:33pm PT
|
While there are many opinions about what to do, or not do (per an accident report), and rather strong moral and ethical judgements assumed by some viewpoints, there is also an autonomous drive for the truth to be divulged. It's easy for me to be patient with all of this because I already know all the details, having debriefed Al(fred) over the phone. However I do understand the growing restlessness by some, which to me, is simply that autonomous drive after truth, no matter how indecorous it might seem to some amongst us.
Of course all of our reactions and opinions and judgements are purely subjective - there is no objective right or wrong, better or worse, respectful or disrespectful. It's all just people wondering and thinking and feeling out loud, and when that happens, blaming and accusing sometime enter the picture. That's just how we roll as people. At least here the judgements didn't get toxic like they did over on RC.com.
A tradegy does get us thinking about things, about what is dear to us, and that is perhaps more important than the technical details of an accident. There's also a lot of trepediation involved in putting anything down paper that might somehow reflect poorly on the living or the dead. Anyone who has had to draft such a document knows exactly what I mean. You can never get it "right." That's why it usually takes so long to draft out these things.
JL
|
|
TYeary
climber
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 05:38pm PT
|
Thanks, John.
It is just how we roll as people.
I appreciate your words.
Tony
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
|
I think that here we see the dichotomy between the type A and type B, personality...
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
|
Mtnmun:
I have had this accident on my mind all week.
I have too, though I know nothing about it. The day after I heard the news I was feeling
sketchy on a lead, continually narrating my own accident report...
"The climber should have placed more protection ... tested holds more carefully ...
brought larger cams ... not climbed while distracted ..."
It's very natural for many of us to want to know just what happened, that's not a sign
of bad character or disrespect. Although each accident unfolds differently, we've
been through this before.
|
|
holly hansen
Trad climber
I.E., CA.
|
|
|
Mar 22, 2009 - 07:34pm PT
|
I wondered what happened last weekend when I first heard the sirens. Then the chopper... That is so sad. I always hate to hear of these mishaps. It will remind me to wear my helmet, and to have fun climbing and enjoy my partners' company.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 02:01pm PT
|
We are still waiting on the facts. They are promised in the next week or so.
|
|
midarockjock
climber
USA
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
|
Largo,
government noted by college philosophy classes has long been
determined to not be a reliable source of information.
Locker,
good to see this :-) from you here.
Vogel,
It's probably deserving of X just as Woody said and I
also know R's away from JT where the crux is not the R
section.
RIP Woody
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
|
I hesitate to post on this, but after watching this thread for the past few days, I will say this. A few days after the accident Barbara and I invited Al and Tony over to our home for dinner. The purpose was not to “debrief” Al or to find out what happened unless he wanted to talk about it. We just wanted to create a warm and supportive environment for a friend in distress.
I found out that evening and since then that Woody’s family and friends have been very kind and supportive to Al, and I want to congratulate them for their kindness and their desire to pull together. This shows us the brotherhood of the climbing community at its best and I am in awe.
After talking with Al, it is still not clear to me what happened exactly. I am not sure it is entirely clear to anyone. Sometimes the simplest things go wrong for very complicated reasons. This is why we should not rush for the “story” here. For the sake of those close to Woody, for Al, and surely for those who want to learn something from this awful incident it is of prime importance the facts be presented correctly.
Patience.
I apologize if this is out of line. If I am stepping on any toes let me know and I’ll pull it pronto…
|
|
scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
|
Thanks for your kind act, Kris.
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 02:46pm PT
|
As an anxious OCD type, I'm cool with waiting. After all, we already know half of the story...
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
|
I fully understand those who want to know what happened, and I commend them for their patience.
The lesson to be gleaned now though is not one of a particular piece of gear that might fail, but rather that we MUST maintain vigilance of our safety systems.
Double check not only YOUR rigging but also those of your partner, and when she/he double checks you don't be offended. Be complemented and reassured of the concern.
|
|
Robert Johnston
Trad climber
Woodland Park, CO
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 03:58pm PT
|
My heart goes out to everyone in Woody's life; his family, friends, companions... everyone.
Woody was an inspiration to me, through my childhood, teens and now as an adult. I was lucky enough to grow up knowing what it was like to be part of the "Climbing lifestyle", traveling with a group of tight friends having fun and enjoying the true meaning of "Climbing". This seems to be a part of Climbing that has been lost, Climbing has turned from a "lifestyle" to a "Sport" and most don't understand the true meaning.
To this day when my dad and I go climb or are sitting around shooting the breeze over a beer or glass of wine, Woody's name always comes up... we reminisce over climbs and good times we had with Woody and his close partner Mike Daughtery. I am always honored to listen to stories from the 1970's with regards to the good times spent between good friends; Mike Orr, Brad Johnston (My dad), Mike Daughtery (Spelled wrong, sorry Mike if you read this) and Woody.
Unfortunitly I never got the oppertunity to say thank you to a good friend and inspiration in my life. Although my time sent with Woody was limited (do to my age at the time) his presence in mind, body and spirit has always been with me through the years. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING WOODY!!!!
A quick story regarding Woody's character:
When I was 11 the group of us were climbing in J-Tree; Mike Orr, Brad Johnston, Mike Daughtery (Sorry again Mike) and Woody. Mike Orr was attempting to lead "Loose Lady" and kept backing off, my old man (Brad Johnston) tried to lead it and backed off... I step up and was being a pest... just wanting to try and lead the climb (I was 11 can you imagine how much of a pest I was), everyone was telling me "NO YOUR TOO YOUNG"... Woody bless his heart steped up and let me lead the climb, against everyone's will... I lead the climb successfully and Woody met me at the top to congradulate... we shared some conversation and Woody took my belay.
I am deeply saddened by this news... Just know Woody that you will always be with me, everytime I put those painful boots on I will think of you. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING AN INSPIRATION!!!
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
|
We can only check knots so many times.
If its your time its your time.
I for one hope when my time comes I am doing something I enjoy.
Juan
|
|
Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
|
Epicsaga wrote, "rockclimbing.com has censored and locked posts in the accident and analysis thread on Woody's death. Hopefully supertopo believes in sharing the facts of the accident so a future accidents might be avoided. "
As one of the mods at RC.noob, I just wanted to clarify a few things. First of all, I understand your angst regarding this issue. Although I never had the privilege to meet or climb with Woody personally, I was deeply moved by the initial reports coming out of J Tree.
As all Supertopoans are aware, RC attracts a different breed of poster than this site. That doesn't make them lesser personalities, just less informed and experienced as a rule; then again, we all started out somewhere, and thank God I didn't have the internet available in 1979 to tell the whole world what an inexperienced n00b I was. Somehow, we all managed to survive that and maybe even turn into decent climbers in spite of ourselves.
The Injuries and Accidents forum thread regarding Woody was locked after brief discussions in the Mods Forum, and although I was not personally available to add input during those discussions (backcountry overnighter)I do understand and support that decision. The thread had drifted off terribly following a bit of a personality discrepancy, and the severity of the climbing community's loss was being overrun by petty bickering. In fact, many posters were adding to the thread asking it to be locked and cleaned up, and that is eventually what happened as soon as the next available mod became aware.
All of the removed posts that added nothing to the discussion are currently residing in the RC Recycle Bin.
As promised, once the official report comes out, then the thread will be reopened for discussion. Blind speculation and second guessing make for grand theater, but in the end just muddy the waters.
It is important to note that a member of Woody's family had logged in to request such restraints, and that weighed heavily upon the decision to lock the thread.
From a personal standpoint, I offer my deepest and most heartfelt condolences to Woody's family and the Joshua Tree climbing community. You are all in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Loran Smith
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
|
Ro wrote:
"The lesson to be gleaned now though is not one of a particular piece of gear that might fail, but rather that we MUST maintain vigilance of our safety systems.
Double check not only YOUR rigging but also those of your partner, and when she/he double checks you don't be offended. Be complemented and reassured of the concern."
In breaking down a lot of these accidents over the years, a majority are due to fundamantal oversights - basic, simple procedures gone wrong for many reasons, some inexplicable. It's this most basic stuff that needs most of our attention - just as Ron says above.
Few are saved through their ability to build super fancy anchors or the like. A kind of knucklehead approach - always checking everything - is our best bet every time.
JL
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
|
Edge,
I think that most of us agree that the RC mods did the proper thing in locking that thread.
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
|
Robert Johnston - that's a wonderful story!
Thanks for sharing.
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
|
I lost neighbors - a man and his wife - Their high school senior daughter survived.
I don't think there was much to be learned from the accident though. Seemed like the classic failure to alter the original plan in the face of weather different than planned, deteriorating conditions, darkness. A chain of circumstances where there were several points to change the outcome with a better decision. The father was a professional. Captain - 747s for United.
Fuel exhaustion. Controlled the plane as best he could. Unfortunately there was no clearing where the plane landed.
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
|
I think it's it's important to convey that nobody (at least knott here) is going to say:
OMG! How could he (or they) do such a thing! I would never let that happen!!!!!!!!!!!1111
When the details are finally known (and yes, they are VERY IMPORTANT),
what will be most remembered is that it COULD HAPPEN TO ANYONE
(and it still happens––and will still happen––year after year after year).
We are only human. It's human nature to screw up. Thank God I have OCD...
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
|
"Captain - 747s for United"
As the son of a retired UAL 747 captain and brother of two FEDEX captains, I did hear some tales of big-equipment pilots who fail to make the compensations necessary when flying smaller equipment.
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
|
Yup. Like not having a partner to check out decisions.
He flew heavy metal in Viet Nam.
Sometimes I wonder if people just get the idea that they are invincible.
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 06:53pm PT
|
"...As all Supertopoans are aware, RC attracts a different breed of poster than this site. That doesn't make them lesser personalities, just less informed and experienced as a rule..."
You're obviously free to speak for yourself.
Curt
|
|
the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:19pm PT
|
This one time at rc.com a guy once tried to present the foot belay: you step on the rope for a belay instead of using a belay device. ;-)
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:20pm PT
|
"...I looked at RC once, easy to see the difference in cllimber experience and maturity..."
We have a spell check function.
Curt
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:22pm PT
|
"...This one time at rc.com a guy once tried to present the foot belay: you step on the rope for a belay instead of using a belay device..."
I call BS. Nobody could be that stupid.
Curt
|
|
the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:25pm PT
|
^^ LOL!
|
|
Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:32pm PT
|
Curt, I am not sure what you are implying here several posts up. Since you posted multiple times on RC(where you currently have over 14,000 posts; you must see some value in it?), calling for the thread to be locked, it seems like you got your wish. The intent of your post here is obtuse at best.
You are doing to this thread the exact thing that you decried on the RC thread.
Yes, fattrad, that was my point. More thoughtful posts here, for sure. I still believe that it is disrespectful to family to discuss this at such a delicate time until all of the official facts are disclosed. Particularly when family members request as much.
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:34pm PT
|
I am most certain that Woody never went to rc.n00b...too many bozo's over there. He spent his time on far more intellectual sites, such as political, news sites and of course, ST.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
|
> You are doing to this thread the exact thing that you decried on the RC thread.
Not really. Curt was just defending rockclimbing.com from some inaccurate criticism. (He is also definitely one of the voices of reason over there).
Most forums are subject to thread drift of some type. One thing I liked about rec.climbing was that you could retitle your subthread when it got too far removed from the original subject.
|
|
Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 07:48pm PT
|
Clint, if that was indeed the intent, then I was mistaken, and I apologize to Curt.
I do, however, find that by sheer numbers, ST is a more informed and targeted audience than RC.
Not that it is a bad thing, just part of the food chain.
|
|
other
Trad climber
LA, CA
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 08:16pm PT
|
He didn't tie in?
"I honestly believe that if anybody has "brain one", that they ALREADY can figure it out and KNOW what happened... "
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
|
Edge -- " ST is a more informed and targeted audience than RC."
Yeah right, ha.
Bring up up 911 here and they all go bonkers and think some Muslims flew some planes into buildings and the the buildings pancaked perfectly into the ground.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
|
It's with the family now.
They have a hell of a lot going on so please back off and give them some time.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 08:38pm PT
|
the thread drift should cease here....
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
|
Amen, Brother Blue!
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 08:59pm PT
|
...does anyone else think that Woody might be secretly pleased if a little 911 conspiracy theory obfuscation entailed on his thread?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 09:03pm PT
|
That would crack him up!
|
|
midarockjock
climber
USA
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 09:06pm PT
|
RIP Woody, and condolences to his family.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 09:19pm PT
|
In November of 07 a virus ate my cochelia and I went instantly deaf in my right ear. I also lost my sense of balance and still have occasional bouts of vertigo. We made a team after that as Woody was deaf in his left ear. This photo was taken a couple of months later by Tia with her dad barkin at her to get back down.
Earlier that day Woody's proding led me to the discovery of the cure for my vertigo, adreniline!
He coaxed me into leading a 10 b/c (well bolted)
Now I only get dizzy if I'm looking up, belaying from below, never on lead ;-]
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 23, 2009 - 09:39pm PT
|
That's gotta be the most color I've seen on Woody ever!!!!
Nice.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 12:05am PT
|
Like anybody here doesn't know how to get into trouble?
As Locker said way back, just pay attention!
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 09:56am PT
|
Bump for Woody.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 12:59pm PT
|
Pilot Error?
Lapse of Concentration.
It can happen to any of us.
Let the man rest in piece.
Juan
|
|
ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
|
"Like a drop of water falls from the summit, that's the line I shall take." -E. Comici
We are holding a memorial service for my Dad this week. If you sincerely would like to come please email me for information. My brother and I are requesting that no media be present or that the details of his service aren't shared with them.
Thank you.
-Tia
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bump for Tia
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 05:02pm PT
|
hey there... say, ... here another bump, from second page...
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
|
better get this back to the front, for the afternoon/evening veiwers
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 12:37am PT
|
hey there... yep, gals... i will help... bump again....
hmmmm, tami.... where areeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....
:)
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 12:38am PT
|
hey there say.... tia has info on here for folks to email her, if needs be....
so back up and take a peek...
:)
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 12:42am PT
|
hey there tgt... say, as to vertigo... i had it once very seriuosouly and it scared me, as i wondered if something was wrong with my brain...
it was tiny ear crystals, inside the ear canal... and if you tilt your head at a wrong DIAGONAL angle, it sets it off very bad.... (called top-shelf vertigo, etc, as it is due to looking up, sharply, etc----which i had done, while looking at the moon)....
did some head-tilt and body-lay-down-tilt exercises and it got much better (this moves the crystals) and finally after many weeks, it was gone...
still, i dont trust to look up at odd angles now...
well, hope some of this helped, or, then , it may be different in your case...
say, way to go, with the adrenaline bit!... :)
and thanks for the happy share...
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 02:09am PT
|
I had exactly the same vertigo problem last summer. It is called benign postural vertigo and is caused by tiny crystals forming in the inner ear canal. Yes, exercises can help; it took about 3 months for mine to go away.
Bruce
ps - try riding your bike up the big climbs(and down them as well) of the Tour de France with vertigo. Rad.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 07:11am PT
|
hey there bhilden, and tgt...
*and it is SCARY STUFF...
best wishes to you tgt...
|
|
Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
|
Will you be there locker? if so, I'll see you there!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
|
I'll be there in spirit!
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
|
I'm happy to be able to attend.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
|
hey there cosmic, locker, and all, i already email tia that i can't be there... too far away, i am... :(
but my prayers and best wishes for all, will be there...
|
|
Stark1054
climber
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 09:17pm PT
|
I'm not one for long speeches and no one will ever accuse me of being a poet.
My old man was the f*#king man. He had some tough times while me and my kid sister were growing up but there was never a time that he wasn't the best father anyone could ask for. Even when he did whip the fly pole around too quickly and lodge a hook in my lip, he was still the greatest. To everyone who knew him as a climber or friend he was Woody or Curtis, but to me and my sister he was simply dad. I don't know how many times I introduced him to people as such and I wonder how often they went on in their lives after meeting him never understanding how understated the word "dad" was.
I'll miss lecturing him on the finer points of snowboarding or listening to him try and get me to start climbing again or how easy a 5.7 really is. Mostly I'll miss him banging the door open at 7 in the morning with the dog and trying to get me out of bed for an "8 mile warm up run" or telling me how breakfast is for the weak.
He was a friend, my all time hero but mostly, he was just my dad.
Here's to all the talks we had, the rocks we didn't climb, and the trips we were planning.
Your son,
Woody
|
|
zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 09:20pm PT
|
Woody,
thanks for sharing your memories of an amazing individual.
Blair
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
|
Hey Stark, your Dad was was a badass and was respected here by all. I loved your Dad too, but we were always on the same side of political debates here. I just wish I coulda met him him once. That I regret.
Here's to ya Woody Sr, I raise my beer to you!!!
Hang in there Woody Jr, we miss him a lot also. God bless.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 09:48pm PT
|
Rock on, Tia and Woody Jr, we're there with you in spirit, whatever you do!
Climbing is cool, but so are any number of other life pursuits.
|
|
MisterE
Trad climber
One Place or Another
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 10:10pm PT
|
Thanks for taking the time to weigh in here, Junior - your dad will be sorely missed by many here.
Blessings and healing to you and Tia,
Erik Wolfe
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 10:35pm PT
|
Woody and Tia
You two both really impress me.
I hope you're doing okay considering the circumstances.
I never had the pleasure to meet your father, but I
knew him well from the taco stand. He's missed badly.
I wish there were something I could say to ease your pain.
SteveW
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Mar 26, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
|
hey there stark1045, say, thank you so very much for sharing about woody... no one can ever top "sharing a dad"... the word as you even now have shown all, is an honor not to be taken lightly...
i'm very sorry, as to the loss of your beloved dad...
may the good lord walk this hard trail with you and may your dad's memories rise and shine on you in new ways...
god bless... thank you once again for sharing...
|
|
Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer space
|
|
May his soul rest in peace.
We climbed together several times, and we bonded together. I remember his Cooper Mini roaring through J Tree, searching for shade for an August climb. I remember climbing Tahquist with him, after he, Wendell and I got stormed off.
He was so grounded, his thinking was sharp, and he got the job done. I have nothing but great memories. I'm sad and shocked, and will miss him. I always thought we would climb again together.
Doyle
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
I've lost touch with this whole thing. Was there ever an official accident report, or has that been canned.
JL
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
No ... I haven't seen one either. I'd like to know what the story was.
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
I would also really like to know what happened. At this point I'm knott holding my breath...
Welcome back, Mountain Man!
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Last weekend a tale was circulating around the park. Somebody needs to tell the tale. It's a real eye opener. In another thread, though.
RIP, Woody.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
I have voiced my thoughts.
|
|
BillL
Trad climber
NM
|
|
Sometimes a well-done accident report quells the kind of speculation that only serves to add hurt (sometimes not).
Whether it is released or not, best wishes to those close to Woody.
Bill
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
"Last weekend a tale was circulating around the park."
Yes, this is the problem - unless someone eventually steps forward and lets the truth be known, half truths and speculations will by necessity fill the void. We're going on a month now since the accident - a respectful interlude by any measure.
RIP Woody.
JL
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
John
I heard you already know all the details, so why not you start a new thread and give us what you know?
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
A number of people are privy to the details, and though I tend to agree with John, I for one gave my word. And I believe that the general "lesson" already cited should serve.
While withholding the exact details doubtless gives rise to rumors and speculation, I hardly believe that even if every single minute detail was disclosed that it would hardly discourage people in the climbing community from engaging in rumors and speculation.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
From his posting history, I would guess that Woody valued facts over rumor.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
It seems there are only three ultimate truths.
The first due to Hillel several thousand years ago states "one should not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you."
The second, due to Werner, states "You got to let people be who they are."
The third is obvious and very old, you must not and you should not suppress availability of information.
We all found Woody an engaging and interesting person accepting the whole of him for what he was. That is not going to change.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
Werner wrote:
John
I heard you already know all the details, so why not you start a new thread and give us what you know?
-
I was told the details in confidence and I need to honor that.
Sunday will be three weeks so I'd expect something from the Park Service pretty soon if others don't come forth in the meantime.
Again, this is not so much a matter of learning invaluable lessons from some tricky technical snafu, rather, it's simply a case of letting the truth be known, difficult as that is sometimes. I'm not exactly sure what real purpose it will serve other than letting the business be over once and for all. So long as the details remain in the dark, the tragedy will keep stretching out, awaiting completion. IME, questions won't simply go away and people cannot be shamed or talked out of having them.
JL
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
Edit: I started typing this post while the thread was on page 2, before JL's post appeared.
---------------------------------------
On Mar 16, 2009, 12:50pm, TGT wrote:
The newspaper article is a complete and total fabrication!
The Park Service has my written statement and that wasn't it!
If someone from the Park Service released that they should be fired imediately. If they did not the reporter should be.
A helmet would have made no difference. It eas an ynsurvivable and instantaneously fatal fall.
When it's time, I'll discuss it all.
Now ISN'T the time!
I'll take Wendell at his word that he will let us know when he feels the time is right.
I was hoping that after Woody's memorial would be a good time, but what do I know?
The fact is, the NPS will release a report––perhaps months from now––but I would much rather
hear it from Wendell, who was there. Here's to hoping we don't have to wait for the NPS report...
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Sorry that folks are hurting from Woody's death and can understand not wanting to dredge up a what-happened kind of backlash.
Of course, Woody was tough as nails and could handle anything, but he's not here to handle it so it's up to his friends to figure out what to do.
Tough Stuff. Maybe it's best to get it over with while the good feelings about Woody with keep the discussion respectful but what do I know?
In any case, we'll all deal with the info out there, right or wrong, or lack of it, cause that's reality eh?
Peace
Karl
|
|
bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
|
|
I'm heading out to Joshua Tree in a week or so.
With 18 years of climbing under my belt, this accident scares the sh#t out of me. If it can happen to Woody, it can easily happen to me or one of my partners.
I have to say, I have a little trepidation lurking about my trip. Though I plan to use the obvious lesson...check and doublecheck both mine and my partners get-up....I am anxiously (in the true sense of the work) awaiting an explanation of what happened.
Perhaps only to exorcise my own demons, but knowing what happened might give me something solid to look out for to protect myself. Perhaps this is my own false sense of security. I am very unnerved by all of this.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
I would much rather hear about a bad accident from someone involved, or a friend, rather than some government report. I'd read the report, but from a 'receiving bad news' standpoint, it's more comforting to get it from a familiar face first.
Whenever that person elects to discuss this tragedy is fine with me. Woody is gone and the facts don't really matter to me. Reminds me of when I finally got to ask Bill about what happened to Walt. Doesn't bring them back. Super sad stuff but at least time helps buffer the pain.
|
|
BillL
Trad climber
NM
|
|
I don't know the folks involved, directly or indirectly. But I can sympathize with a desire to withhold the facts while giving the general conclusion: "don't get complacent, double check everything." Only those involved can determine if this is how it ought to stay.
However, when I bring someone new to the base of a climb, I am greatful that there are things to say with more substance than "don't get complacent, double check everything." I can instead tell the story of some experienced, competent, and respected local climbers where the belayer sez to the leader on lead: "Oh shit! Hey Bob, get to a safe position. This belay device is not rigged right!"
And when I arrive at a pre-existing rap anchor with that new person, I am greatful there is something to say with more color than "don't get complacent, double check everything." I can instead tell the story of some experienced, competent, and respected local climbers where the pair tossed the rope for rappel only to see it, the rap rings, and the critter-severed rap slings sail off into the void.
Hardly anything makes the lesson stick more than a story with some life to it.
Respectfully,
Bill L
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Yes exactly BillL "Hardly anything makes the lesson stick more than a story with some life to it."
Everyone is so focused on death they've completely forgotten what life really is.
|
|
Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
|
|
Between the eye witness account from the 3rd party on the scene, the girl who's belayer told her what she saw (both accounts on rockclimbing.com), the official report, and the warning here to check your belay system; we'd need to get into some theoretical physics to figure this one out. :O
Not that we're suppose to try, I know, I know, we're suppose to wait. :)
Anyway, I've read about Woody since the '70s, and I too am very sorry to hear about this. What I've always marveled at though was how safe rock climbing has been... as much of it that is done, and oftentimes by those without Woody's talent and experience, or even close to it... very few accidents happen. I know that is no consolation for those close to Woody... but hopefully everyone stays safe... that's always been my wish.
|
|
martygarrison
Trad climber
The Great North these days......
|
|
Can we just end this thread? Enough time has passed to get the facts out which could hopefully help other climbers to not make the same mistakes, whatever they were.
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
"...I don't know the folks involved, directly or indirectly. But I can sympathize with a desire to withhold the facts while giving the general conclusion: "don't get complacent, double check everything." Only those involved can determine if this is how it ought to stay..."
I respectfully disagree. We don't actually learn anything that way. When all of the facts are known, the speculation about the specific series of events that led to this accident will end. That is almost certain. What we can collectively learn from this accident however (or any other accident) derives from the more difficult question of "why" this accident happened. "Why" is obviously the most difficult determination to make, but therein lies the additional contribution to our cumulative knowledge.
Curt
|
|
adam d
climber
CA
|
|
Clearly, those who know what happened feel they should not reveal it yet. Clearly they are not going to be swayed by requests. Clearly, they will tell what they know eventually. Is there anything else to say?
I feel for you Woody (and family & friends)
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
here's the thing-
it wasn't you.
it wasn't your dad.
it wasn't your brother.
it wasn't your partner.
you weren't there.
it's easy as hell to sit at your desk or at some coffee shop and check back to supertopo to see what's up in this thread.
not everyone has it so easy.
i maintain that people need to deal with their sh#t.
they need whatever time they need to deal with their sh#t.
the time to share their sh#t is when they are ready to do so.
your agenda is just that.
your schedule is just that.
selfishness comes in many forms-
as does compassion.
go watch some basketball and give it a few more weeks, what's the big deal?
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
Were you addressing that to anyone in particular?
Curt
|
|
jtanzman
climber
|
|
So many people already know the facts of the accident that it is starting to seem strained—perhaps even hypocritical—not to discuss the accident openly. At least some of us who agreed to keep the details confidential did so with the understanding that Wendell (or maybe Al) would explain what happened within a reasonable period of time after the accident. I think we're approaching the point in time where it would be reasonable for someone besides Wendell or Al to open the discussion.
Jay
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
Let's just wait till the NPS report is released - it'll be here any month now...
|
|
other
Trad climber
LA, CA
|
|
Then open the discussion Jay.
"So many people already know the facts of the accident that it is starting to seem strained—perhaps even hypocritical—not to discuss the accident openly. At least some of us who agreed to keep the details confidential did so with the understanding that Wendell (or maybe Al) would explain what happened within a reasonable period of time after the accident. I think we're approaching the point in time where it would be reasonable for someone besides Wendell or Al to open the discussion."
|
|
BillL
Trad climber
NM
|
|
"I respectfully disagree. We don't actually learn anything that way ...."
In general, I agree with what you said, Curt. I greatly value true-life stories with import as stated in my last reply.
For sure, there are reasons why there is not yet a detailed report. I do not know the reasons. I hope they do not warrant the report staying hidden. But our collective public learning through all the facts does not trump everything all the time - thank gawd.
And if there is never a detailed report then I think the folks involved need to eventually concede/allow speculation using the known facts. 'Speculation' is also another way to learn in deeper colors than the abstract general answer - even if the speculation is off the mark. This last part is no threat and can be taken at face value.
Bill
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
ONe of the repeating themes of this post is that we all loved Woody, we miss him, and we need a plan to get through this together;....I am finding that going climing seems to be a good way to piece it all together for me;....(Climbing seems to be a good " problem-solver" for me in many/most situations....)....After Woody's memorial last weekend....we went climbing....it seemed like the thing to do, and believe me, if Woody had been there in person other than in spirit,and it was someone else'smemorial...HE would have gone climbing........I'm about to go climbing today, with my buddies;...and I'm sure we will all be thinking about our friend as we drink our beers, hike forever to some low angle dummy dome, and do a new choss pile;.......just like what we did with Woody on so many a beautiful perfect Joshua Tree Day............So go climbing, and think of Woody;.....it's helping me alot anyways....
FA of Five Barmaids in My Pocket Tower of Power Queen Mountain, Joshua Tree
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
I think the person who will post the report, TGT, was actually there when then accident occured. Can you imagine what it must feel like to watch and see your buddy after an accident like this?
Wendell hasn't posted it for a reason. He said he will post it when he's ready.
Give him a break, show some respect to he and Woody and Al.
Wait for it and quit bringing this up!
I'm going climbing....
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
Naitch wrote: "Please do not withhold details in a pretense of protecting the primary victims. No one heals by sticking their heads in the sand by “protecting” the primary victims. Let us share, know, and embrace the details together in a respectful manner."
At going on three weeks, nondiscolsore is starting to drift into witholding, and the issue of "disrespect" is no where in evidence in any of these threads.
Woody Stark was a climber, one of our community, so lets clear the air, learn what we can, and let the thing be over once and for all.
Letting the thing drag out is not psychologically or spiritually healthy for anyone. People are buried. Lets view this openly and bury it - for good.
JL
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
I guess we're "vultures" after all...
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
thanks, locker.
you've been remarkably composed, given the circumstances.
i don't see the urgency that some of the other posters see. so what if it takes two more weeks before the NPS releases a report, which we then analyze and supplement with accounts from eyewitnesses and friends?
i don't foresee any gumbies lobbing off cliffs over easter break as a direct outcome of the delay.
and i have neither the training nor the temperament to speculate on the spiritual benefits of immediate posting for the friends and family.
|
|
Chris2
Trad climber
|
|
Accident analysis is valuable so that such accidents do not occur in the future. If there is no immediate danger, there is no need for immediate analysis.
As the individuals that are aware of the accident are experienced, people should feel confident that these individuals see no need for immediate analysis, and respect those opinions.
This is not only true to rockclimbing but all types of situations where someone has been injured or died.
|
|
nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
Matt said,..
"it wasn't you.
it wasn't your dad.
it wasn't your brother.
it wasn't your partner.
you weren't there."
"not everyone has it so easy.
i maintain that people need to deal with their sh#t.
they need whatever time they need to deal with their sh#t.
the time to share their sh#t is when they are ready to do so"
......
I understand and agree.... The week Woody died, Lars also died, my Uncle died and a Lovely girlfriend died. Life can be Bittersweet.......Peace.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Whatever comes out, and whenever it comes out, and whatever it says, I'd just like to point out that, after climbing for numerous decades, I don't believe there is any climber immune from making a fatal mistake or having a deadly thoughtless moment.
Some of us are just luckier than others.
Whatever happened with Woody, and whomever might seem to be to "blame" I don't believe in blame. Nobody's trying to hurt anybody so it's just our human slipup nature happening at the wrong time
Peace
Karl
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
Well said Fattrad.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
|
|
That is a rough week nita hope you are well.
|
|
TYeary
climber
|
|
I think Karl nailed it.
When the details are released, we will see nothing profound in and of itself. We have all been at the brink, sometimes not even knowing it, and through dumb luck or providence, not paid the ultimate price for our inattention to detail. I too await the report and Al's public recounting. More than anything else, it will begin the process of closure and healing for all of us.
Tony
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
The basic facts were described today in a series of posts on TGT (Wendell Smith)'s thread "The Lesson":
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=827432
Here is a summary of the details as I understand them:
1. Woody Stark led a 100' climb on The Great Burrito formation (Real Hidden Valley). He placed an anchor on top.
2. Al Kwok followed the climb, trailing a second rope for the third person (Wendell Smith). The second rope was attached to the back of his harness.
3. 65' (approx.) of slack in the second rope was pulled up, to prepare for belaying Smith, and a knot was tied in the second rope at this point (65/100). This knot was clipped to the anchor by Stark. Smith was tied into the second rope at this time.
4. Before Smith started climbing, Stark requested that Kwok lower him to the ground. At this point, Kwok probably believed that the second rope anchored him closely to the belay anchor, but there was in reality 65' of slack in between.
5. Kwok began lowering Stark. [Edit:] After Kwok had lowered Stark about 35', Kwok probably shifted his weight forward, expecting to be held by the second rope. Due to the slack in the second rope, Kwok kept moving forward and fell along with Stark.
6. Kwok fell 65' (approx.) and was held by the second rope at this point (the haul loop on the back of his harness was strong enough). [Edit:] During the 65' fall, Kwok did not lose control of the lowering device. Stark fell [Edit:] 65' to the ground, receiving a fatal head injury.
7. Smith untied Stark from the lead line, to relieve pressure on Kwok.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Thanks Clint.
You are a master at this ....
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
He is!
and vibes to you, Nita!
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
You pretty much nailed it Clint. Thanks!
Just a couple of additions. Al never lost control of the rope he was lowering Woody on. That's why it was almost tight between Woody and Al. The distance between them never changed from the initiation of the fall.
Al took the full force of the fall backwards, breaking ribs and consricting his breathing. That's why I had to untie Woody's end and get Al upright and on the rock, (he was hanging completely free over a slight lip).
I also had no idea at that moment what, if anything was holding the other end of Al's rope and expected him to come plunging won at any second.
After seeing the condition of Al's harness a week or so later, it may have failed if it had been fully subject to the impact of both of them. It was in bad shape! Burn marks and some stitching starting to break on the trail loop.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
Thanks for the corrections, Wendell - I edited my post (and its copy in The Lesson thread). Hopefully people will consider the events in the accident and take more care in their own climbing to be aware of the ever present risks.
I have witnessed fatalities also, though not of my friends. Fortunately you acted quickly in spite of the shocking event and stabilized Al's situation.
|
|
jtanzman
climber
|
|
Early on, it was reported (somewhere by somebody) that neither Al nor Woody was tied-in to the lead rope. Later, somebody (Wendell, I think) clarified that Woody had been tied-in to the lead rope (and, as is clear now, was being lowered by it). What about Al, though? Was he tied-in to the lead rope while lowering Woody, or had he untied?
Jay
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
Jay,
I believe the account you are referring to is:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2102154;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Posted by: cfarr
Mar 17, 2009, 10:14 PM
Post #67 of 115 (2166 views)
While I am very hesitant to reply, I would like to know what happened, for closure I guess. I was the third or fourth person on the scene. I am still puzzled by what I saw. The second was about thirty feet up, hanging on what appeared to be the second rope for the third member of the party. The rope was clipped into his haul loop, with no line attached at tie in point! The lead line was hanging near the ground with the first half of a figure 8 near to the ground, and ran through 2 or 3 pieces not far from the top of the formation where the other end appeared to still be. Nothing appeared to be attached to the deceased. Too many unknowns to make conclusions, and while I have my guesses I'll keep them to myself. Hopefully someone can fill in the blanks.
Any information on how the second is doing would be very appreciated.
One problem with this account is that it is an observation sometime after the accident occurred. Wendell had already untied Woody from the lead line, which explains the "first half of a figure 8 near the ground". The rope may or may not have been in Al's lowering device at this time. I don't know the exact configuration, so I can't explain all of cfarr's observations at present.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
My question to TGT is: were the lead rope and the trail rope the same color? Could this have created confusion as to which rope was clipped into the anchor?
|
|
| Messages 1 - 502 of total 502 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!