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dirtbag
climber
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Boohoo...mb is oppressed.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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"Timeline" does not imply that NH punted on what their constitutions says, and it is well-documented what their intention was in joining the Union. Comparing NH to the southern states is ridiculous, as NH guaranteed that they had the perpetual right to secede if necessary.
And the more pressing question is: What is a free person to do? Are we ALL slaves? MUST we participate in a form of government that we have come to reject due to its excesses and corruption. If we demure, what options do we have?
They ratified the entire document, including ALL the clauses. NH doesn't have any special terms in the constitution any other state doesn't have. Period.
I think what you call slavery is citizenship , with the rights AND THE DUTIES of a citizen, including the clauses that cede powers to the United States.
Among those, in article 4
Clause 2: Property Clause
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State..
" All needful rules" is even more inclusive that the precious second ammendment right wing nut cases go on about. Funny they never read that clause.
Your constitution says you have given the right to congress to set up rules and regulations, and it is your duty as a citizen to obey until you get the rules and regulations changed by congress.
Have at it.
Anarchy is not the answer.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I vaguely recall a time when people didn't fear the gubmint, at least as long
as you weren't a commie pinko. But I guess that was when the BLM was being
nice to the ranchers.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Funny, I was pretty young, but I remember during the McCarthy era people feared the gummint...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feds aren't real Americans? The enemy?
MB now you're talking weak sauce. I know hundreds of federal employees, and they're every bit robustly American as you are.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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It seems to me that folks that want to be let alone by the federal government should choose a line of work that doesn't require use of federal lands.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Especially the ones who want free water from federal water projects.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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I vaguely recall a time when people didn't fear the gubmint, at least as long
as you weren't a commie pinko. But I guess that was when the BLM was being
nice to the ranchers.
I can vaguely remember a time when the government didn't expand to fill every gap and void that the citizenry didn't protect under threat of death to the bureaucrat.
Well, I've read about those times at least.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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I can vaguely remember a time when the government didn't expand to fill every gap and void that the citizenry didn't protect under threat of death to the bureaucrat.
Well, I've read about those times at least.
I vaguely remember a time when the citizenry chose to elect people who understood the process of governing and the citizenry went to the ballot box instead of reaching for a gun to threaten bureaucrats who were enforcing the laws elected officials passed.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Ah the good old days. Harken back to when the tobacco industry had completely unfettered access to the American (and World) population without the nuisance interference of the government.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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There is literally no PLACE a free person can just BE, secure in their property and liberty, as long as they are operating within their God-given negative rights.
You do realize that any argument you make based on the existence of supernatural rights requires that you both prove the existence of a god, AND prove that he/she gave us those specific rights? Sh#t, never mind proof, I'll take marginally compelling circumstantial evidence for either.
At what point in the past do you believe the United States, or any large society was closest to the Libertarian perfection you yearn for? I guarantee I'll find more egregious invasions of personal security and liberty there than any current taxes or Federal regulations.
Government sucks, but it's better than the alternative.
TE
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Lorenzo, you say everything I want to say, but so much better.
TE
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Y'allqueda is classic...lmao.
These guys are nuts.
Madbolter1 does raise a couple of points on fed power and the perception that many have. This chart shows one thing, but these militia nuts are different and are not victims
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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I vaguely remember a time when the citizenry chose to elect people who understood the process of governing and the citizenry went to the ballot box instead of reaching for a gun to threaten bureaucrats who were enforcing the laws elected officials passed.
Was that before or after the bureaucrats bought the ballot box through public assistance programs? Just want to a get a sense of the time period you were reminiscing about.
Democracy doesn't equate to freedom.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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GFYS, champ. I've given more to this nation that you ever will.
Right back atcha, on both points.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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^^ Sheesh, MB1 (my favoite bike frame from them, BTW), this is the better quote anyway:
Ya'llQaeda?
-or-
Vanilla ISIS?
ROTFL!
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WBraun
climber
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Don't just love this guy saying; "I've given more to this nation that you ever will."
But what did he do ..... ????
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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but in theory the state gives you safer roads to drive "your" car that they rent you
I have NO problem with taxes, provided that they satisfy some basic principles:
1) I am purchasing a benefit to MYSELF with them. I agree to pay for police, fire-departments, schools, etc., as I enjoy a DIRECT benefit being part of the collective.
2) Robust ownership rights are preserved. This can be accomplished with tariffs and sales taxes. Income tax (at both the state and federal levels), and ALL forms of property tax (B&O taxes, etc.) set up a system whereby I am NOT in control of my own property or my own destiny.
I'm not proposing anarchy. And I'm not opposed to A federal government in principle. I'm opposed to the present federal government that has become EVERYTHING that our founders (on both sides of the "aisle" feared!).
I'm not opposed to working people IN the federal government. Those individuals are not the enemy! The people manipulating the strings behind the scenes ARE the enemy. THEY run the federal government.
And Americans that just keep voting status quo and an ever more invasive, all-powerful federal government are also the enemy. They are the enemy of their OWN freedom and of mine.
I've asked, and as yet heard NO answer: What is a FREE person to do?
I have negative rights NOT granted by ANY government, and ANY government that is in fact legitimate MUST recognize and uphold those rights.
I have a RIGHT to freedom, property (in a ROBUST sense), and equal protection under the law. NONE of these are actually recognized and upheld by our present federal government. So, what is a FREE person, endowed with rights, supposed to do? Just capitulate as a slave?
You sorry saps have NO idea how enslaved you really are. As long as you can drinks some beers while watching football, you think that it's all good.
Really, it's pathetic.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Well, looks like you've got it all figured out AngryDriller. What are you going to do about it, other than rant on a climbers forum? Or shut up and figure out a way to live outside the system? My guess is the former, which only makes you part of the problem.
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