Video of Missile Hitting the Pentagon?

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k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 26, 2011 - 10:48pm PT
You discount the credible eyewitness accounts...
-- Jaytee



With all due respect Jaytee, I believe you are doing the same.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 26, 2011 - 10:52pm PT
Do you folks know anything at all about cruise missiles? Ever seen one close
up or in a photo with something which would allow you to judge scale? How
about a cruise missile engine? Ever bother to just jump on Wikipedia and look up the
physical specifications of a cruise missile or one of their engines? No? Well,
if you had you could point out a problem with this photo from the assertion linked
in the OP.


Here's a hint fresh from Libya:


Basic fact checking, part of the abc's of journalism 101. I know that's a tall bar
for some folks with websites, but come on people, a little common sense still goes
a long way even in conspiracies...
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 26, 2011 - 10:54pm PT
Mono, 44' 6" with gear down.

If it was a bit above the ground when it hit (as the pictures show), then there should be an impact where the tail hit the building.

I don't see an impact zone where there should be one.

Mono, you called me "so ignorent" [sic] for not seeing that the 16' hole that was made by the tail.


EDIT: Funny, I would never guess that that was a picture of where a 757 vaporized, mono. More power to you if you believe all the Original Story.
Homer

Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
Werner - thanks for your posts - I'm not sure what you're saying in this thread.

That we have incomplete information - we don't know for sure what happened? We're using all of the information we have to come to a conclusion, and even though we're all sure we're right, we don't have enough information to know that we're right?

Or you have a belief one way or the other that separates you from the sheeple? You've conducted some experiments on, for instance, what video evidence is available that has been suppressed, what "they" do when the evidence supports them, what eyewitnesses will say in these situations, etc.

Or are you just calling attention to the challenge of our situation - living with incomplete information?
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2011 - 11:11pm PT
Homer

These two are good.

That we have incomplete information - we don't know for sure what happened? We're using all of the information we have to come to a conclusion, and even though we're all sure we're right, we don't have enough information to know that we're right?

Or are you just calling attention to the challenge of our situation - living with incomplete information?

Thanks for actually being someone who see clearly ......
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:17pm PT
They have the videos of whatever hit the pentagon but they won't release them even after congressional committees request them.

Yes, they are a secret government warehouse in a wooden crate just to the left of the crate holding the Ark of the Covenant and just to the left of the crates holding the skeleton of the Roswell aliens.

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:20pm PT

What is a giant bicycle freewheel doing in the middle of the Pentagon wreckage?

This is proof that there was no airplane. It was a giant bicycle.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:21pm PT
C'mon guys. Pull a dang ruler out and scale it and measure things. But, it has already been done for you.

The 16' foot hole is nearly split between the 1st and 2nd floor. Stop lying. Infact, the top of the hole is nearly even with the top of the windows on the 2nd floor. The hole doesn't even go to the ceiling of the second floor.


The hole is nearly split equally between the 1st and 2nd floor. I would argue that it goes down to the ground but we can't see the ground because of the debri of the building.




*Note: The jet couldn't be any lower than the 2 engines below the wing. The engines hang low, so the point about the landing gears not being down is pretty mute. There were no massive trenches dug by the massive engines in "The Pentalawn." In fact it is pretty darn pristine for a massive 757 just flying over it by mere inches or feet wouldn't you say? See above image. Golf anyone?








By all estimates I've seen, the vertical stabilizer of a 757 would have come to the bottom of the 4th story windows of the Pentagon at a minimum. The 16' foot hole comes to the top of the 2nd story windows only. Again, here did the vertical stabilizer go through the Pentagon? Where did the full size of the wings go through? Where did the 2 massive engines go through the Pentagon? For the main fuselage of the 757 to go through that 16 foot hole it must have been greased down with Crisco. And I suppose the wings just folded up like a massive umbrella and just squeezed through along with it huh? And then no massive wreckage. The images immediately after the impact don't show a lot of wreckage on The Pentalawn. Only images after the collapse to the roof and then after that. The lawn after the immediate impact is pretty pristine.





Jaytee

Trad climber
U.K.
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:31pm PT
k-man

Also with all due respect - I asked you to post links to TV interviews, conducted as are the ones posted on this thread, with witnesses who saw anything other than a big jet airliner hit the Pentagon.

If there were any they would obviously be all over net, and you would have posted them. You didn't because they aren't any. How much more obvious does it have to be?

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:52pm PT
So, are you guys gonna take the Red Pill or the Blue Pill?

What's it gonna be?


Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 27, 2011 - 12:23am PT
Ron,

All we have to do is invalidate the OCT. That has been done over and over again.

We don't have to say what they did with the flights and the passengers.

Read all about "Operation Northwoods."

Our government has done and is willing to do heinous crimes for its own immoral purposes. That is a fact.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/index.html


I highly suggest everyone read Jesse Ventura's 2 books. They are well written and well researched. They are co-authored with Dick Russell. Eye opening.

Jesse is a brave man and I have a great deal of respect for him. He doesn't have a college degree but the man is incredibly smart and savvy. He is willing to go where the real evidence goes. Many others would be cowards in his position by comparison.

American Conspiracies
http://www.amazon.com/American-Conspiracies-Dirty-Government-Tells/dp/160239802X

63 Documents the Government Doesn't Want You to Read
http://www.amazon.com/Documents-Government-Doesnt-Want-Read/dp/1616082267/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b



Edit to add:

Jesse Ventura Interview / 63 Documents - Part 1 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7qIhgP9pUA
Jesse Ventura Interview / 63 Documents Part 2 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=JbWcPC7X9iE
Jesse Ventura Interview / 63 Documents - Part 3 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=S2Q2jzglb7o
Jesse Ventura Interview / 63 Documents - Part 4 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36herIqfs_E&NR=1
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Aug 27, 2011 - 12:30am PT
Jaytee - you have to watch what "witnesses" say. Remember the big gas line explosion in San Bruno Ca a little while ago. I was watching the news right after it happened. They interviewed a group of people watching the fire and one guy said he SAW a plane crash into the houses.





No plane, just gas.
tooth

Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
Aug 27, 2011 - 12:40am PT




Normally I don't add to conspiracy theories, but Operation Northwoods clearly describes how the US government planned to apparently blow up planes full of people during the cold war/cuban missle crisis, etc.

It is an interesting read, the PDF file is scanned from the typewriter files.



So even though it is outside of the average American's ability to imagine, it IS something your Government dreamed up years ago and put on paper.









The other thing... I kept my cellphone on every flight I have taken since 9/11. To see if it works. Flown out of a dozen airports (SEA,LAX,new york, dallas, chicago, etc) with Sprint and ATT. Couldn't get service long enough after take off or before landing to make calls as long as they claimed were made. Has anyone else been able to get better service than I have? 20 flights this year alone for me.
Mimi

climber
Aug 27, 2011 - 01:27am PT
Barbara Olson died on that plane among many others at that crash site.

Anyone stating that that attack was anything else than a plane crashing into the Pentagon is a total whackjob and should be shunned for their inanity.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Aug 27, 2011 - 01:30am PT
Even the US government is backing off the Cell phone fairy tales on 9-11-2001.

I used my Kycera 2001 cell phone on a flight across the US from coast to coast in about 2004. Nada. Zip. Nothing. Only right after take-off until we were about 2000 feet off the ground, and similar with landing did I ever get a signal. The rest of the flight no bars. Zip. Not possible to call, and not possible to receive.





Could Barbara Olson Have Made Those Calls?

An Analysis of New Evidence about On-board Phones

David Ray Griffin and Rob Balsamo
06/26/07 - Did AA 77---the flight that, according to the official conspiracy theory about 9/11, struck the Pentagon---have onboard phones? This question is relevant to the possible truth of the official theory, because Ted Olson, who was then the US Solicitor General, claimed that his wife, Barbara Olson, called him twice from this flight using an onboard phone. Full Article
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/amrarticle.html


Documents of testimony:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/AA757AMM.html



United States v. Ted Olson

In the course of doing research for this article, we learned, to our amazement, that even if, contrary to our evidence, Flight 77 did have functioning onboard phones, the US government has now said, implicitly, that Ted Olson’s claim about receiving two calls from his wife that morning is untrue.

As we mentioned earlier, the FBI report on phone calls from AA planes on 9/11 does not cite records from the DOJ showing that any calls from AA 77 were received that morning. Instead, the FBI report refers merely to four “connected calls to unknown numbers.” The 9/11 Commission, putting the best possible spin on this report, commented: “The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of [these four calls] represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office.”27 That is, it must be said, a very strange conclusion: If Ted Olson reported receiving only two calls, why would the Commission conclude that the DOJ had received four connected calls from his wife?

That conclusion is, in any case, starkly contradicted by evidence about phone calls from Flight 77 presented by the US government at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in 2006.28 Far from attributing all four of the “connected calls to unknown numbers” to Barbara Olson, as the 9/11 Commission suggested, the government’s evidence here attributes none of them to her, saying instead that each of them was from an “unknown caller.” The only call attributed to Barbara Olson, moreover, is an “unconnected call” to the Department of Justice, which was said to have been attempted at “9:18:58” and to have lasted “0 seconds.” According to the US government in 2006, in other words, Barbara Olson attempted a call to the DOJ, but it did not go through.29 The government itself has presented evidence in a court of law, therefore, that implies that unless its former solicitor general was the victim of two faked phone calls, he was lying.

It may seem beyond belief that the US government would have failed to support Ted Olson’s claim. We ourselves, as we indicated, were amazed at this development. However, it would not be the first time that the FBI---surely the agency that prepared this report about phone calls from the flights30---had failed to support the official story about 9/11. We refer to the fact that when Rex Tomb, the FBI’s chief of investigative publicity, was asked why the bureau’s website on “Usama bin Laden” does not list 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts for which he is wanted, he replied: “[T]he FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”31

In any case, an interesting question about the government’s claim concerning the four “connected calls” from AA 77 is whether they were supposedly made from cell phones or passenger-seat phones. The government’s Moussaoui-trial evidence does not explicitly say. We can, however, make an inference based on its evidence for phone calls made from United Flight 93.

Although it had been generally believed that there had been approximately ten cell phone calls from UA 93---including the four widely publicized calls reported by Deena Burnett from her husband, Tom Burnett---the government’s document on this flight identifies only two calls as cell phone calls: those made at 9:58 by passenger Edward Felt and flight attendant CeeCee Lyles. One might conclude from this information, to be sure, that the government simply remained neutral on some of the other calls that had been thought to be cell phone calls, such as the Burnett calls, leaving open whether they were from cell or onboard phones. But that is not the case. A reporter at the Moussaoui trial wrote:




In the back of the plane, 13 of the terrified passengers and crew members made 35 air phone calls and two cell phone calls to family members and airline dispatchers, a member of an FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force testified Tuesday.32




The government explicitly said, therefore, that only two of the calls from UA 93---which were identified in the government’s report on this flight as being from Felt and Lyles33---were cell phone calls.

We can infer, therefore, that because these calls from Felt and Lyles are the only two calls from all the flights that are identified as cell phone calls, all the calls from the other flights are now said by the government to have been made from onboard phones.34

The distinctive thing about the calls from Felt and Lyles is that they reportedly occurred at 9:58, after United 93 had descended to about 5,000 feet. By limiting the cell phone calls from all four flights to these two from UA 93, the government is no longer, even implicitly, supporting the view that high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners are possible. The government has thereby implicitly overcome, by conceding the point, one of the 9/11 movement’s main arguments against the government’s conspiracy theory.

This is a rather amazing development. Much of the official story about 9/11 has been based on the assumption that high-altitude cell phone calls were made. The film United 93, for example, portrayed five cell phone conversations. The 9/11 Commission Report, discussing UA 93, said: “Shortly [after 9:32], the passengers and flight crew began a series of calls from GTE airphones and cellular phones.”35

Four cell phone calls from UA 93 were, as mentioned earlier, supposed to have been made by Tom Burnett.36 His wife, Deena Burnett, repeatedly said Tom used his cell phone. She knew this, she said, because the Caller ID identified his cell phone as the source.37 Her testimony has been repeated countless times in the media. For example, a special segment about her on CBS’s Early Show said: “Tom Burnett made four cell phone calls from Flight 93 to Deena Burnett at home, telling her he and some other passengers were going to ‘do something.’” In a letter published in the National Review, Tom’s father spoke of “Tom's four cell-phone calls from Flight 93 to his wife, Deena.”38

The government’s evidence presented in 2006 at the Moussaoui trial, however, implies that she was mistaken, even though, given her statement that she saw her husband’s Caller ID number, the government’s new position means that she was either lying or, as we believe, the victim of a faked call using a device that, besides morphing her husband’s voice, faked his Caller ID number.39

However, although the government has undercut much of the basis for the official and popular accounts of 9/11 by denying the occurrence of any high-altitude cell phone calls, it has, by paying this price, protected itself from the 9/11 truth movement’s charge that the official story is falsified by the fact that such calls are impossible.

We come now, in any case, to the implication of the government’s Moussaoui-trial evidence about phone calls for the government’s position on whether AA 77 had onboard phones. According to this evidence, there were five connected calls from AA 77: one from Renee May and four from “unknown callers.” Given what we have learned from the government’s evidence about calls from UA 93---that all calls not identified as cell phone calls are said to have been made from onboard phones---we can conclude that, by virtue of not identifying any of the five “connected calls” from this flight as cell phone calls, the government is implying that this plane did have onboard phones. It does not, therefore, support our view on this issue.

Nevertheless, whether one accepts our evidence, which indicates that there were not any onboard phones on AA 77 from which calls could have been made, or trusts the government’s evidence presented at the Moussaoui trial, the conclusion is the same: The two conversations reported by Ted Olson did not happen.



The US Government has conceded that cell phones don't work from high altitude passenger jets. We've been saying this all along. They have had to admit many calls did not happen that were used as evidence and portrayed in the OCT as though they did happen.
jbaker

Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
Aug 27, 2011 - 01:59am PT
I was across the Potomac from the Pentagon on 9/11. I'd just come out of a building, where I'd watched the attacks on the WTC on TV. I was looking in the direction of the Pentagon. The Pentagon itself was blocked by buildings in the foreground. A jet that looked the size and shape of a 757 came in at extremely high speed from the N/NE (roughly - following the Potomac), streaking downward.

It went out of sight for a second, blocked by the foreground, and then the sound and flames of the explosion leapt up from behind the buildings in the foreground. It was clear it had hit the Pentagon. It was an awful sight, knowing a plane full of people had just been deliberately steered into a building full of people.

There is no way it was a cruise missile.

jbaker

Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
Aug 27, 2011 - 02:27am PT
Kevin:

It is hard for me to joke about it, even after 10 years. It was an intense day, even for someone who was only peripherally touched by it. I knew a couple of people in the Twin Towers, and friends of friends were killed in the Pentagon.

After the hit on the Pentagon, I started to take the Metro back to my office to check on people, realized it was really stupid to be underground near the Capitol, and got off and walked across the city. I had to circle around the Capitol to get to my office, and everyone was clearly expecting a hit on it. I could see jets flying CAP overhead. Helicopters were shuttling bigwigs to undisclosed locations. Troops were setting up perimeters and checkpoints.

My office was a couple blocks away from the Capitol. I got there after detouring around and using back streets, and the remaining staff and interns were milling around, trying to figure out what to do. We closed the office and ordered everyone out. Some people were heading out to the farthest stops of the Metro, just to get as far away as possible from another potential hit.

I walked from the SE to the NW. The streets were packed with cars trying to get the hell out of the Metro area. People were in the streets, just trying to connect with each other and make sense of it. I finally got to my apartment, where my girlfriend, who'd moved to DC on the 9th after a two year bi-coastal long distance relationship, was trying to figure out what the hell she'd signed up for.
Mimi

climber
Aug 27, 2011 - 02:46am PT
So where are Barbara and the other passengers hanging out these days?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 27, 2011 - 05:39am PT
Some of you people are just crazy....
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Aug 27, 2011 - 09:22am PT
Yea and what was all that underground work going on in the Valley, couldn't have been a sewer project, you don't believe that s**t do you?

WB don't you work for the Fed's? Tell us what you guys were really burying!
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