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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 31, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
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"...because it reflects, to me, an adherence to partisanship that has come to define contemporary American politics."
John, I would be very sorry to think that you find that Rmoney's complete disregard for facts, and willingness to take 180 degree turns on virtually every one of his positions, is anything similar to his opponent, or any of his Party's preceding candidates. I understand and respect your political positions, but to not be able to see this speaks loudly to your own adherence to partisanship.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 31, 2012 - 06:54pm PT
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If we accept your logic, Ken, neither is Anastasia a "real" Democrat. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of Republicans who think abortion should be legal, just as there are plenty of Democrats who don't think all Republicans fall back on guns and religion, or who cringe at the notion of "One nation under God."
John, I gather that you haven't really looked at the respective parties, lately.
You will find that the democrats WILL accept people with divergent views, because they are.....liberal! They also do not define those who have divergent views as being "not real Americans".
There ARE plenty of self-described Repubs who are pro-choice, but they will NEVER, NEVER be allowed to represent the party.
And I think that is unfortunate
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 31, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
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There ARE plenty of self-described Repubs who are pro-choice, but they will NEVER, NEVER be allowed to represent the party.
This may not sit well with some, but Fattrad was actually a neo-conservative/neo-liberal/and nice guy. It's a shame that he is no longer allowed to contribute, but while being a troll at times, he did bring some insights. And while he was repetitive (to say the least) he was not so far right as some Taco Standers. Hmm, I'd love to say names but that would not be positive.
Okay, all of his name-dropping and "I was a tough reserve deputy" BS was a bit wearisome, but Jeff (Fattrad) is a Republican who had some liberal views, on some things mind you.
I think that the key to a healthy society and democracy is that we take the (moderate) views of all sides and see how we can 'mesh' them together, in a compromise.
There are some rabid right wingers on the Taco Stand (you know who you are) and some stringent lefters (but really, not that many, IMO, most liberals on this forum are far more open minded than the right-twits, but I would write that, wouldn't I).
Chill out. If you really love America, open your minds.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 31, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
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Actually, it's a rather excellent example of the way the Democrats' leaders feel. Because the bill didn't contain all that Pelosi wanted, we are all to assume that the bill's help was meager? Who's being partisan here?
John, I'm not being partisan and we are not "all to assume." I merely quoted the article you referenced.
And, since you say the bill aimed to help the middle class, why this:
House Republicans voted down an amendment to the package that would have required large publicly-traded companies to disclose how many of their employees are based in this country vs. overseas. In the final vote, 230 to 175, all but three Republicans opposed the amendment.
Rep. Gary Peters (D-Mich.) introduced the amendment to shed more light, he said, on how many American jobs are being outsourced, as many multinational companies do not reveal where their employees are based. Yet data show that multinationals as a group reduced their domestic head counts by 2.9 million while adding 2.4 million jobs in other countries between 2000 and 2009.
I think the Republicans want to hide how much they are moving jobs overseas. Not a real help to the middle class, eh?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 31, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
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There is no way to generalize the Democratic Party anymore. Half of Democrats are ex-Republicans who wandered into the party after Limbaugh and his wanna-be's hijacked the Conservative Message.
So if you look at Democrats as a group, it is wildly diverse. Imagine the Zombie Apocalypse where the new Conservatives are the Zombies, and the Democrats are everyone left over.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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And Ron, what are his (Obama's) actions? Could you have cleaned up the mess better? Could McCain? And you really think that Romney is the key?
In some (perverse?) way, I'd like to see Romney win, just so I can say four years from now after he has screwed things up further, "Ron, I told you so, nah nah nah nah na".
But that would be childish of me.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Ron, yer straw man is burning.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Ron, destroying the Constitution?
Your man, the idiot Bush, and his administration did far more harm to the United States Constitution than Obama has to date. Far more.
Ron, I am not into name calling or flaming, but if you think otherwise about my above statement, than I seriously have to think about your mental state.
Okay, you are NUTS.
Now, little boy, go get your toy soldiers and play war, and give us sane, adult and reasonable people some peace for a couple of days.
Otherwise, we'll have to call the Waaaambulance for you.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It has little to do with Obama and everything to do with the structure of the balance of power in our government which was explicitly designed to constrain executive power. The executive seeks power and carte blanche and seldom gives back any it is extended regardless of the party of the president in office.
This has become an a real issue since the abuses of the Nixon administration. Most of today's elder republicans served under the Nixon and Reagan administrations and have always felt those presidents exercised legitimate executive power in their actions. As a result they have been on a forty year campaign to expand executive power which culminated in the appointment of Roberts and Alito to the SCOTUS. Both men were and are activist supporters and advocates for the expansion of executive power - it's why they sit on the bench and why Roberts runs the court.
If you don't like what you perceive to be abuses of executive power then the only place you can lay the blame is on conservatives who still believe Nixon got a raw deal and think Reagan and Bush Sr's covert actions where legitimate exercises of executive power. I personally lay a lot of the blame on Ford - Reagan, Bush Sr, and W wouldn't have conducted themselves the way they did if Ford (and then Reagan, and W) hadn't pardoned folks for continuing abuses of executive power.
In short, the reason behind Obama continuing W's abuses lie more with the office than with the man and is another chapter in a four decade case study on the consequences of the unpunished abuse of executive power. And ensuring there is never another Nixon 'persecution' for a president simply 'doing his job' is the whole point of this enduring republican campaign for defending and enabling abuses of executive power at every turn.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Research?
What, you call research Faux News?
Ronnie Boy, methinks the desert heat has fried your brains.
I do not know why I even bother responding to a moron. I have tried to keep my level of conversation at a decent rationale. But I am beginning to really believe that you are a bigot. A black man as POTUS?
"Yes, dear Ronnie," says Mom. "Times have changed."
Forget the stats, as they can tell two different stories. Look at the FACTS.
I truly feel sorry for you Ron. Sincerely, I do, like many people you are under a cloud of misinformation.
People like you sadden me. I expect ignorance from certain quarters, but you usually come across as intelligent. Perhaps I should rethink that aspect of you.
Now boy, grab your gun and protect your goolies. Cause those nasty Obamamites and Democrat vampires are coming for you. Wooo Wooo.
EDIT
IMO, people like you will be the cause of the downfall of the United States. polarization, spreading lies and misinformation, neighbor against neighbor, hatred, spewing useless site. I would like to say that I hope you are happy with life, but you come across as a bitter person.
Hey, go out and climb some desert formations, take that mind of yours off of politics. It might do you some good.
;-) Smiles, all smiles. Best wishes Ron and cheers.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Ron, my mom died January 5, 2007.
But thank the heavens she was a good West Virginian liberal Mountaineer.
Still, if you can find the time to get your head out of the toilet and into a fresh jug of coffee, not decaf, then you might wake up.
and Ron, I wasn't putting your mother into the conversation, you twit, it was a "metaphor" so to speak. Oh excuse me, too big of word, let's see now...
...hmmm, I am just wondering how to talk to an ignoramus in simple words.
See the cat...CAT, can you say that?
See the dog... woof woof, can you say that? Woof Woof.
See Mitt and Paul run? Aren't they having fun?
Can you spell Mitt? Can you spell Sh*t? Mitt and Sh*t rhyme. Isn't this fun now children. Now turn to page two in your books.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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this was about average democrats wast it?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Gosh Hawkeye, a self-portrait of you.
But you couldn't have taken the photo, unless...
...Nahhhh
I am having fun with you guys. Do I pay you or you pay me?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Just an average Democrat doing his job.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Yes, he has, and while a disappointment, it's a good object lesson on tendencies of the executive branch and why the founders struggled to come up with a system which would constrain those tendencies. Your party is utterly dedicated to preserving and expanding abuses of the executive's Constitutional powers and allowing / encouraging it to abridge and skirt both the Constitution the Bill of Rights at every turn it can and now has a Supreme Court to allow it.
The 9/11 attacks were unfortunate triggers allowing the neocon republicans to launch two preemptive wars and the broad expansion of executive power necessary to enable their 'new american century'. It took OBL and the Neocons together to bring the nation to a new low and Obama's failure to bring the W administration up on treason charges simply defers justice yet again and encourages more of the same by future generations just as the Ford pardon did.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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yup survival, it was a great political move....
you can hear the phone call now right?
BO: well chris, you kiss my a$$ and i might get you some help, how does that sound?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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From Lethal Weapon 2
Consulate Envoy: Sir, listen to your friend, here. He knows what he’s talking about. I don’t think you want to go to South Africa.
Roger Murtaugh: Why not?
Consulate Envoy: B-Because you’re black.
From Blazing Saddles
Howard Johnson: [reading] As honorary chairman of the welcoming committee, it's my privilege to present a laurel and hearty handshake to our new...
[looks up and sees Bart]
Howard Johnson: ...nigger.
Ron and Hawkeye, those white sheets you wear, they must get awfully dirty, have you tried bleach?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Hey Ron and Hawkeye
The three of us are sanctimonious. I can play 'geetar' and harmonica, and I am learning the piano, perhaps the three of us can get together as the "Sanctimonians". And I am a trained tenor (no fiver jokes please).
I do not mind playing music with close-minded people, it may help you to let go of your anal retentiveness. Music can do that.
EDIT
A long hard day, and now I am turning on fellow Supertopians (though they do not know what they think). I could go kick the cat, but I have never resorted to such a low blow.
I tell you what right-wingers (Ron, Hawkeye, Blue tooth, um Bluering, Couchmaster - that says a lot, couch potato, I read, and other anti-Amercian lovers of your ilk) go ahead and make crude dolls (and jokes) of me and stick the needles in. Just make sure that you stick needles in my left shoulder and lower back... and left hamstring, and... (too many injuries to add). Ahhh, acupuncture. Thanks guys, I feel better already.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Ron, I can sing that. What's the lyrics? And what key? D or E?
I love jousting with you guys. Just keep your visors down when I come a charging.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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BO: well chris, you kiss my a$$ and i might get you some help, how does that sound?
"Sounds perfect boss! I'll finger your love eye while I go down!"
Don't forget wrongeye, he WAS the keynote speaker at your convention!
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