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Dave Johnson
Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
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Aug 27, 2011 - 10:10am PT
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They are burying black helicopters, Charlie.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:19pm PT
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Some of you people are just crazy....
Yea, we're crazy. Uh, huh. Sure whatever you say. (Eyes rolling.)
Not as bat poop crazy as our US government and the Joint chiefs of Staff in the Pentagon can be. From the official "Operation Northwoods" released documents . . . This is what they wanted to do back in 1962, "false-flag" false pretext operations against Cuba to provoke war. Do you really think they have stopped doing this kind of stuff? Hardly. They have gotten even more sophisticated, dark, and sinister since then. Just look at all the evil the Bush/Neocon Administration was able to do in just 8 years. Unbelievable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
6. Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion appears to be the security risk inherent in obtaining or modifying an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could be produced from US resources in about three months.[15]
7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.
8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[16] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.
9. It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack.
a. Approximately 4 or 5 F-101 aircraft will be dispatched in trail from Homestead AFB, Florida, to the vicinity of Cuba. Their mission will be to reverse course and simulate fakir aircraft for an air defense exercise in southern Florida. These aircraft would conduct variations of these flights at frequent Intervals. Crews would be briefed to remain at least 12 miles off the Cuban coast; however, they would be required to carry live ammunition in the event that hostile actions were taken by the Cuban MIGs.
b. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft. While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume his proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.
c. At precisely the same time that the aircraft was presumably shot down, a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found.[17]
And you guys don't think it is possible that 9-11 was an inside job, even when we can prove the OCT is invalid. Man are you guys snowed.
In memory of JB. He liked to post this image . . .
To all you naysayers . . .
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2011 - 12:27pm PT
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This is from United Air Lines Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret.) who actually flew these planes during his career.
"The fakers say the B-757's and 767's were doing about 530 MPH (that's statute miles per hour).
Well, we don't use statute miles! We use KNOTS! So, this translates to about 460 Knots, which is exactly 110 knots ABOVE Vmo of 350 Kts at about 1000' above MSL (sea level)!
IN LEVEL FLIGHT NO LESS!!!! THIS IS ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE!
The "Drag Rise" (shock waves) would rip the wings off the airplane well before reaching that speed! Above Vy, (best rate of climb speed) drag increases to the square of the velocity of the air speed!
Remember folks, these were AIRLINERS."
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Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:40pm PT
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Klimmer
Anybody with any interest in these subjects knows about the despicable covert operations undertaken by all Imperial (Western generally) powers, not just American ones. This is as old as history man. You think people don't know about this stuff?
I'm as "pinko" as you can get, and loathe the likes of Bush & his chums as much as the next quasi-communist, but only an idiot thinks these absurd claims of a washington-based 9-11 conspiracy are serious. Get real, and grow up.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
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Drink your Kool-Aid and repeat after me:
This is where a Boeing 757 crashed,
this is where a Boeing 757 crashed...
Somebody, please overlay the outline of a 757. Be sure to make room for the wings above the untouched spools, the intact columns, and show where the engines, wings, and tail hit the building. Should be easy.
Oh, and Jaytee, I already pointed out where you can find interviews of folks who saw things other than a Boeing 757 hit the building. But, if all you believe is what you see on network TV, that's your problem, not mine.
On the tenth anniversary of 9/11, American researchers will appear live at The Royal cinema in Toronto to present exclusive interviews with eyewitnesses to the act of mass murder which took place at the Pentagon that day.
Simply put, the plane did not fly where it absolutely had to be to match the government reports and cause the directional damage inside and outside of the building. The eyewitnesses’ accounts prove that it could not have, and indeed did not, strike the Pentagon. It was seen flying away by multiple witnesses immediately after the explosion.
To those who keep asking "What happened to the passengers?", I reply: Damn good question.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:53pm PT
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I was across the Potomac from the Pentagon on 9/11. I'd just come out of a building, where I'd watched the attacks on the WTC on TV. I was looking in the direction of the Pentagon. The Pentagon itself was blocked by buildings in the foreground. A jet that looked the size and shape of a 757 came in at extremely high speed from the N/NE (roughly - following the Potomac), streaking downward.
It went out of sight for a second, blocked by the foreground, and then the sound and flames of the explosion leapt up from behind the buildings in the foreground. It was clear it had hit the Pentagon. It was an awful sight, knowing a plane full of people had just been deliberately steered into a building full of people.
There is no way it was a cruise missile. jbaker deserves a response given his first person account of the events in DC on 9-11-2001. He’s either misguided, a liar or telling truth. My gut says he’s telling the truth whereas for a few, your position foists that he is mistaken about what he saw or he’s a liar. But by all means keep talking about how some “pilot” you read about on the internetz says a 757 can’t go 500 mph or a 50 year war game memo.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:53pm PT
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The video is the video..
I find some of the facts a bit too difficult to accept:
Specifications
757-200 757-200F 757-300
Flight deck crew Two
Seating, typical 200 (two-class)
234 (one-class) N/A 243 (two-class)
289 (one-class)
Length 155 ft 3 in (47.32 m) 178 ft 8 in (54.47 m)
Wingspan 124 ft 10 in (38.05 m)
Tail height 44 ft 6 in (13.56 m)
Wing area 1,951.0 sq ft (181.25 m2)
Wing sweepback 25°
Wing aspect ratio 7.8
Wheelbase 60.0 ft (18.29 m) 73.3 ft (22.35 m)
Cabin width 11.6 ft (3.54 m)
Cabin length 118.4 ft (36.09 m) 141.8 ft (43.21 m)
Empty Weight 127,520 lb
(57,840 kg) 142,400 lb
(64,590 kg)
Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) 255,000 lb
(115,680 kg) 272,500 lb
(123,600 kg)
Take-off run at MTOW 9,550 ft (2,910 m) 9,600 ft (2,900 m)
Cruise speed Mach 0.80 (530 mph, 458 knots, 850 km/h at cruise altitude of 35,000 ft or 10.66 km)1
Range, loaded 3,900 nmi (7,222 km)
−200WL: 4,100 mni (7,600 km) 3,150 nmi (5,834 km) 3,395 nmi (6,287 km)
Maximum fuel 11,489 US gal (43,490 L) 11,276 US gal (42,680 L) 11,466 US gal (43,400 L)
Service ceiling 42,000 ft (12,800 m)
Engines (2×) Rolls-Royce RB211, Pratt & Whitney PW2037, PW2040, or PW2043 turbofan engines
rated at 36,600 lbf (163 kN) to 43,500 lbf (193 kN) thrust each
Fit through a 12 foot hole in the wall????
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 27, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
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Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
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k-man
I don't believe everything I see on TV. I use my critical faculties to decide what I may find to be true or false. I tend to side with Noam Chomsky's views on the media generally, and hope I am pretty discerning.
You have provided no remotely credible eyewitness reports describing anything other than a massive jet airliner crashing into the Pentagon. You seem incredibly tenacious in holding onto these bizarre beliefs. It's just really... weird.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:02pm PT
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I'm as "pinko" as you can get, and loathe the likes of Bush & his chums as much as the next quasi-communist, but only an idiot thinks these absurd claims of a washington-based 9-11 conspiracy are serious.
Actually, I believe that only a stupid worthless f*#k believes:
* The hijacked flights all flew long routes taking them far from their targets exposing them to certain interception given standard operating procedures.
* The towering infernos were said to burn with the heat of nuclear power plants, despite sooty black smoke and few visible flames.
* The building collapses were presented as inevitable, even though such behavior was unheard of in steel structures.
* An extensive paper trail of the hijackers was found within hours of the attack, even though the same people had supposedly eluded authorities for years.
* The same hijackers who pulled off aerobatic maneuvers with large jets were flight school flunkies who had never flown jets.
* The FBI claimed that the passport from one of Flight 11's hijackers was found blocks from the towers (when the only other parts found of the jetliner that penetrated the tower were a few pieces of landing gear).
* The FBI pinpointed who the assailants were, even though several "hijackers" turned up alive after the attack.
* The video of Osama bin Laden that has him taking credit for the attack doesn't even look like him.
* Passengers made cell phone calls from the planes while at high altitude.
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Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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k-man
I give up - you posit ridiculous speculation as evidence, and simultaneously wilfully ignore the evidence on plain view in front of your nose. Yep, I give up... over to you & Klimmer. Hope you enjoy each other's company :)
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:25pm PT
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ridiculous speculation
Please enumerate the speculation.
Facts != Specuation
And speaking of ignoring evidence ...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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Come on Jaytee, you're calling me an idiot and accusing me of posting "ridiculous speculation."
Those are strong words, and I expect you to back up your claims.
If you can't back up your claims against me, then
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:44pm PT
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Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain.
Friedrich Schiller
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2011 - 01:50pm PT
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Damn .....
I'm gonna have to build the experiment myself since these so called scientist don't even follow their own rules.
Hypothesis, theory, and then make experiment.
They only do the first two and then just run their mouths forever.
Where do I get one of the big ass planes to crash in my replica wall at 500 mph at a supposedly impossible maneuver by the pros themselves?
So called Arab did it who couldn't even fly a consumer plane so I should be able to pull this off no problem.
I'll pack the plane full of dummies, of course me being the first dummy.
Then ..... I'll jump out right before impact.
I'll need a technical adviser. This Weld-it dude guy might be the ticket.
Wish me luck ......
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 27, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
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Wow.....
Some of you are very mentally disturbed.
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2011 - 02:07pm PT
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Crap Dingus ....
Now that's a big hairy ass plane.
I'm nominating you as part of the experiment.
Which part do you want to play ..... :-)
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 27, 2011 - 03:24pm PT
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Yeah.
So explain to me again why they won't release the tapes of the crash.
You know, the ones the FBI confiscated minutes (not hours) after the incident.
I'm one that finds that particularly odd.
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monolith
climber
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Aug 27, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
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Ron, you give K-Man too much credit in response. Ask him to first back up his assertions. He can't.
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