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WBraun
climber
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
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Ron Anderson is no killer and no coward.
You crazy ass idiots quit your stupid projecting of your own internal insecurities and insanities onto other people all the time.
Take a vacation you internet nutcases .....
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
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And yet you return to quack off all the time. Don't like it don't click on it let alone post to it.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
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Well in that case Happy 4th of July!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
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But those dudes didn't yell "Women and Children First".
And those founding fathers had a real cause and a true grievance.
And if they would have been in Nevadastan that day they would have stood WITH the Government and against the lawless mob.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
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Ron Anderson is no killer
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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I'm comforted by the fact that there are very few of these idiots who are truly willing to pick up a gun and shoot.
And Ron likes eating puff pastries too much to be dangerous.
Edit: and soft, warm boobies.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
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Dirtbag, ssssshhhhh don't talk about boobies (unless they are blue footed). Are you trying to get this thread axed for being offensive?
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:28pm PT
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
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Ron Anderson is no killer and no coward.
You crazy ass idiots quit your stupid projecting of your own internal insecurities and insanities onto other people all the time.
Take a vacation you internet nutcases .....
I've got to agree... LOTS of projection going on here. And there is no reasoning with such folks so afflicted.
But it's fun to try!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
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Mirroring, a conservative tradition.
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ucrk7y/apocalypse-cow---welfare-rancher
Jon Stewart's take is a crack up.
Frankly I agree with Stewart in that it disgusts me that this LiberTardAryan denies the legitimacy and very existence of the US government but has the audacious gall to parade around with OUR (not his) flag. What a despicable shit!
18,000 good American ranchers abide by the State and Federal laws, pay their grazing fees and play by the rules.
Toy soldiers in flak jackets and hiding behind concrete gun slots with high power rifles aimed at AMERICANS are not brave nor heroic.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 22, 2014 - 02:25pm PT
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The first and only time I was proud of myself for killing an animal was maybe age 10
then I fuking grew up
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 22, 2014 - 02:28pm PT
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The above raises a very good point.
The government has no power to levy bank accounts, foreclose on real property, place liens on property, or take any other similar action if you owe it money...
The only recourse the government has is to send in SWAT officers to seize personal property by force. It may not be well known, but that is standard operating procedure for the government to collect its debts.
And exactly which of your remedies there...levying accounts and similar, physically removes said cattle from the land in question?
Collecting back fees/debt was one part of the equation. Getting the moo-moo land maggots off the land in question was the other part. You are neglecting half the equation.
True that--the cattle can't read the court orders, so if it's urgent to remove them from the land, and Bundy won't do it himself, I agree the only way to do that is through force.
Still, I'm skeptical that Bundy would have been able to operate his ranch after the government applied its standard debt collection techniques, and that would be the end of his cattle, on government land or anywhere else.
But what fun is it to levy and garnish and foreclose when you've got SWAT teams?
Doesn't rounding up someone else's cattle with helicopters sound way cooler than sending paperwork to a bank or a feedlot operator or whatever?
Anyway, while I appreciate a reasonable discussion on this, seems like most of you just want to bash Ron, so sorry to interrupt that important task.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 22, 2014 - 02:46pm PT
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Werner wrote: nto a huge self righteous aszhole .....
Coming from the person who always tells others how stupid they are.
Projection is a funny thing.
I agree with DMT...talk is cheap and that makes people like Ron & his brigade are pretty poor.
Half of these dip shits couldn't fight their way out of wet paper bag.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 22, 2014 - 03:00pm PT
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I can't believe the IRS hasn't dragged him through the coals yet! Yeah we have to wonder about that (not sure that it would actually be the IRS, could be some other branch of the government--to my knowledge, he's just a grazing fee cheat, not a tax cheat. But I'm not sure that changes the collection tools at the government's disposal.)
We do mostly see this through the prism of how we generally see life--some of you guys you see poor, downtrodden (underpaid?) federal workers just trying to serve their country and risking their lives from "domestic terrorists."
I see a somewhat incompetent, over-funded, generally overpaid, inefficient federal government, which now has a huge domestic paramilitary "police" force to complement the insanely large regular military. Gotta break those toys out now and then.
How about some more stories from Kos about how much money he (or his company) makes and how little work they do on their federal contracts?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 22, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
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Why not use the courts to remedy this? If he refuses court orders, no problem, put liens on all his property and possessions, seize all proceeds from selling cows...
OMG dude, you could have prevented this whole situation! Sure wish you would have spoken up earlier. Who would have thought... take him to court, get court orders to seize the cattle, then just go and seize them. Fuking brilliant!!!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Apr 22, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
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After all, there's a lot of steak.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 22, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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Bundy Creek Farm is located in New York. Unaffiliated with our pal out west.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 22, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
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SO I've been staying away from this slugfest for a week. There's a good chance I've missed a good debunking of Cliven Bundy
But in case it didn't get posted here, the Las Vegas TV news "I Team" has dug around in the historical records.
Blundy is either stoopider or more deceitful than at first appeared (even I bought some of his family story)
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny
Bundy explained his "ancestral rights" to the I-Team.
"I've lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements," Bundy said. Hard to decipher what Bundy claims from that gobbledygook. The "Virgin Valley" goes well up into Utah. One branch goes through Toquerville.
Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.
Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.
The Bureau of Land Management was created 1946, the same year Cliven was born. EDIT:
OOPS....Wrong! No significant part of the Virgin River is in Arizona.
Virgin River Gorge blah blah
Dyamn, you're right. I sit corrected. The Virgin River cuts across the extreme upper left of AZ.
End EDIT
Early census records show Cliven's maternal grandmother, Christena Jensen, was born in Nevada in 1901. One genealogical researcher says records indicate Jensen helped settle Bunkerville some years later.
Wasn't Bundy claiming his property rights go back to his family in 1877?
Bundy repeated a similar claim Thursday when he told TheBlaze website: “My family has preemptive, adjudicated livestock water rights filed with the state of Nevada. They were established in 1877 when the first pioneers entered the valley. Among those first pioneers were my grandparents from my mother’s side. My father either bought or inherited his Nevada state livestock water rights and I, in turn, have done the same.”
There's a lot more here.
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history
None of which of course has any bearing on his so-called "right" to graze for free on BLM land.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 22, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
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Jon Stewart opened his show with this subject last night.
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