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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 22, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
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He does claim some sort of "grazing rights"--I have no idea if that claim is good (I'd guess it's not), but that's not the same thing as adverse possession.
No one can obtain any interest in land through adverse possession against the federal government. He has no grazing rights.
Base104's take is pretty on the matter is pretty good.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 22, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
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The 1st amendment is also being bastardized. Corporations are evidently people, people who can't be sent to jail. The supreme court is so right wing that they have voted down campaign contribution limits.
Base, it's true that corporations can't be sent to jail (for reasons having to do with the way the universe works, not legal doctrine), but corporations can only act through their human agents. Those human agents can go to jail--they do all the time. There's no "Nuremberg defense."
Corporations can also be fined and through various means given something like a "corporate death penalty,"--that's basically what happened to Arthur Andersen after Enron.
I haven't heard too many people say we don't have enough people in jail in this country, but maybe we don't, who knows.
No one can obtain any interest in land through adverse possession against the federal government. He has no grazing rights.
You are likely right in the result, but claiming that someone can't acquire something through adverse possession when they aren't claiming anything through adverse possession isn't really the way legal analysis works.
Perhaps I'm mistaken and some of the ST legal brain trust can correct me, as usual.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
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c'mon Ron
It'll take more than 100 disgruntled Democrats to toss Reid out. After all his Big Chinese Money Conspiracy will buy 100 X that many votes.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
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As usual, Ron is Rong.
This thread is about something other than Harry Reid. I'm sure next he is going to tell us how it is all Obama's fault, especially Ruby Ridge.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
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I'm actually almost half tempted to un-grease this thread just to see what kind of stupid sh#t rong is saying. But I think better of myself than that...
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:38pm PT
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You are likely right in the result, but claiming that someone can't acquire something through adverse possession when they aren't claiming anything through adverse possession isn't really the way legal analysis works.
blah, it was you who stated that he claimed "grazing rights". It is not possible to accrue any sort of interest in federal government owned land through any sort of occupation.
Curtis Brown in Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location, 2nd edition pg. 82, writes: "In general, although there are exceptions, unwritten conveyances (the gaining of rights in land without writings) cannot operate against the federal, state, or local governments. In most states, irrespective of how long a person occupies a road, occupancy gives no rights against the public."
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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Weeelll now, feloow westernars, that Reid libitartd ain't facin nother re-erecttion till 2016.
Corse, Ron & his folks could empeaaach him iffn daze were able to put there small mines to a progect liken that.
Udder-wize they all will have to keep there grunges strong and there nives sharp till 2016 for that Reid.
That Reid felow: heel be 76 years old by then and ready to retire to a fine life in China.
and member to shoot low, cause there ridin Shetlends.
whatca thinkin? Can I jin a militia now?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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Ron need I remind you that Fattrad also made dozens of ridiculous political prognostications.
He, like you, was adament that he was always correct. Sadly for him, and you, always wrong.
Save the desert tortoise start eating crow.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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We were just in West By god virginia a few days ago. Wonder if anyone is keeping an eye on this guy?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:05pm PT
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to think that guns will somehow protect and save you from the government if it wishes to impose it's will is the epitome of ignorance. hell... half the reason why we will never lose our right to own arms is because the gov't wants us to have them. cuz hey.... if some white bread ignorant militia opens fire on gov't agents it makes it really simple to wipe out said uprising.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:10pm PT
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If ever I felt a reason to "arm" up it would be to defend my self not from Government overreach but from anti-government rightwing neo-Facists like these anti-American piss ants.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:10pm PT
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philo +1
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
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These right wing radicals are what is dragging America down.
They are regressive thinkers are just bat-ass crazy.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:22pm PT
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sure, try to fight the government which has honed its warfare for the last 13 years on foreign civilians and "armies" without air support or naval reinforcements.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
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blah, it was you who stated that he claimed "grazing rights". It is not possible to accrue any sort of interest in federal government owned land through any sort of occupation.
Curtis Brown in Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location, 2nd edition pg. 82, writes: "In general, although there are exceptions, unwritten conveyances (the gaining of rights in land without writings) cannot operate against the federal, state, or local governments. In most states, irrespective of how long a person occupies a road, occupancy gives no rights against the public."
Yes, I did claim that Bundy claims some sort of "grazing rights," that's based on my quick reading of news reports, not on anything else. I don't know anything about "grazing rights."
But you are setting up a straw man in claiming that Bundy claims his rights through "any sort of occupation." For all I know, he claims rights pursuant to a contract or some other legal doctrine--I have no idea.
Do you believe that leases are recorded with county clerks? (They're not, in general.) Maybe Bundy claims a lease of sorts, I don't know.
This is silly in that apparently courts have found against Bundy, and I certainly haven't heard any clear articulation that substantiate his "grazing rights." As I said long ago in this thread, he seems like a crackpot.
But I called Base out for incorrectly claiming that he solved the case by noting that Bundy claimed rights through AP, which isn't possible. Base would be right if Bundy was claiming AP, but he isn't claiming AP either using those words or words to the same effect, as far as I know.
Base is wrong, you're wrong to the extent you support Base's reasoning (rather than his conclusion), Bundy is almost certainly wrong based on everything I've seen.
That's pretty much my "final answer" as far as this goes, but I'll leave you with a question to ponder:
We all know that there is in fact something called "grazing rights" or the like that authorize ranchers to graze their cattle on government-owned land.
Do you think those rights are recorded with county clerks (in the same way property deeds and the like are recorded)?
If no, do you admit that Base's contention that the (presumed) lack of any redecoration of Bundy's rights is generally irrelevant?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:29pm PT
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If ever I felt a reason to "arm" up it would be to defend my self not from Government overreach but from anti-government rightwing neo-Facists like these anti-American piss ants. Bingo.
let me do the math
25 million shotgun shells
370 million people.
YUP
the Gummint Gonna Shoot All Us Sheep.
I live within 1 1/2 miles of two gun ranges. I hear them banging away and know their approximate rate of fire. On a nice weekend their combined shots have got to be in the thousands. AT LEAST 10 or so a minute ( 1 every 6 secs on average) on each range for 300 minutes X 2 ranges. 6000 shells per day.
30 good weekends a year: 360,000 shells. Just in my neck of the woods.
No wonder the Big Money is against any restrictions on guns and ammunition.
Just screams deer hunting doesn’t it? That's the SILLIEST part of your quoted stuff. Of course DHS isn't interested in deer hunting. They're mostly trying to keep illegal immigrants out. Just what right wing whackos have been bitching for.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
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can't we all just get along?
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 22, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
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If ever I felt a reason to "arm" up it would be to defend my self not from Government overreach but from anti-government rightwing neo-Facists like these anti-American piss ants.
That's something these mouth-breathers are failing to factor in: they don't just have to worry about America's standing law enforcement and armed forces...there's also tens of millions of REAL patriotic Americans that are going to bitch slap them if they try anything stupid.
You LOSE.
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