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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 27, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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Mono, what assertions have I made? I've posted the anomalies that are present in the Official Story. To me, it's puzzling and I question why there are so many lies and fabrications in the tale.
BTW, you gonna superimpose an outline of a 757 on your Pentagon photo? That would be interesting to see.
Not to mention the "STANDARD" security policies of the PENTAGON...
Right. If any knucklehead can fly an airliner into the building, they better be thinking of how to make it more secure! In other words, I don't buy it because I believe that the existing & standard security policies would not have allowed for the building to be hit by the airliner. (Refer to the Minetta/Cheney conversation for more details.)
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 27, 2011 - 04:59pm PT
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Good thing there's lots of video and millions of eyewitnesses of the WTC getting hit by knuckleheads who can't fly a plane, or there might be some sort of batshit crazy conspiracy theory about it being, like, a highly secretive controlled demolition carried out by dozens of individuals and unnoticed by any of the thousands of people working in the building!!!
Thank goodness for that video, SHWEW!!!
P.S. Right, the FBI, who was IN on the Pentagon "incident", made sure to confiscate the tapes minutes after (but somehow forget to sabotage all the video cameras just before?) Because it's much easier to let the tapes roll, and of course, nothing EVER leaks from our government.
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Aug 27, 2011 - 05:23pm PT
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Anybody got an explanation as to why they would use a cruise missile instead of just using the plane that they had to make disappear anyway?
Why not just crash the plane into the pentagon like they did with the WTC towers?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 27, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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Lot's of practice under the guise of other but very similiar events . . .
And Condoleezza Rice saying "We never imagined planes being used as missiles . . ." blah-blah-blah.
I laugh. And then I cry.
Right Condi. Sure I believe you. (Dang lying Neocon.)
9/11: THREATS ABOUT AIRPLANES AS WEAPONS PRIOR TO 9/11
By: Dr. Matthew Robinson
Associate Professor of Criminal Justice
Appalachian State University
robinsnmb@appstate.edu
http://www.justiceblind.com/airplanes.html
They had lots of practice over and over again . . .
PENTAGON & CIA PRACTICED 9-11-2001
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_practiced.htm
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 27, 2011 - 05:42pm PT
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Anybody got an explanation as to why they would use a cruise missile instead of just using the plane that they had to make disappear anyway?
Why not just crash the plane into the pentagon like they did with the WTC towers?
Military precision and control.
They had to have the exact pretext for War, and they had to get rid of the evidence for losing 2.3 Trillion dollars announced by Rumsfeld on 9-10-2001 in a press conference.
Rumsfeld 2.3 Trillion Dollars missing Pentagon 1 DAY before 911 (Conspiracies)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo
The missile (or what ever it was) hit exactly where the computers and personnel were, that knew about and knew exactly where all the skeletons hiding in the closet were: the finance office, that had just received reinforced walls.
Dang the coincidences of all that happening exactly like it did. What are the odds??? (2.3 Trillion to 1)
Lol.
Are you gonna take control and make it happen exactly as you want or are you going to run the risk with Arab flight flunkies?
Pretty straight forward choice if you think that way and have gone to the dark side and you don't have a soul.
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monolith
climber
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Aug 27, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
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What assertions? Hilarious K-man.
How about that the FBI confiscated all security camera video within minutes of the attack. Really, within minutes? Even, like hotel security video, parking lot video? That would mean the FBI was in on the conspiracy.
Back it up K-Man. And not some stupid anonymous source.
I see Cleo already nailed you on that one.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Aug 27, 2011 - 06:01pm PT
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Roger Murdock: Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 28, 2011 - 12:09am PT
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A security camera atop a hotel close to the Pentagon may have captured dramatic footage of the hijacked Boeing 757 airliner as it slammed into the western wall of the Pentagon. Hotel employees sat watching the film in shock and horror several times before the FBI confiscated the video as part of its investigation.
It may be the only available video of the attack. The Pentagon has told broadcast news reporters that its security cameras did not capture the crash.
The attack occurred close to the Pentagon's heliport, an area that normally would be under 24-hour security surveillance, including video monitoring.
Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20021219062257/http://www.gertzfile.com/gertzfile/ring092101.html
Not only has the government refused to release footage that would clearly show how the Pentagon was attacked, it has also seized footage not belonging to the military. The FBI confiscated video recordings from several private businesses near the Pentagon in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Those recordings, if they still exist, might provide decisive evidence about the attack.
The FBI visited a hotel near the Pentagon to confiscate film from a security camera which some hotel employees had been watching in horror shortly after the attack. The FBI denied that the footage captured the attack. 1
The FBI visited the Citgo gas station southwest of the Pentagon within minutes of the attack to confiscate film that may have captured the attack. According to Jose Velasquez, who was working at the gas station at the time of the attack, the station's security cameras would have captured the attack. 2
At least two plaintiffs have attempted to obtain videos seized by the FBI, using the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The first, documented at Flight77.info, began with a request to the FBI in October of 2004. The second, undertaken by the Judicial Watch, Inc. began with a request to the Department of Defense (DOD) in December of 2004. Following is a timeline of the requests and subsequent lawsuits. Entries relating to the second case are distinguished with dates colored gray.
October 14, 2004: Scott A. Hodes, on behalf of his client Scott Bingham, sends a request to David Hardy of the FBI requesting any videos "that may have captured the impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001". The request letter mentions videotapes from the Citgo Gas Station and the Sheraton National Hotel.
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The entire timeline is given in more detail here: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/footage.html#lawsuits
So mono, these are not assertions, these are facts.
No need to apologize, I know it must already be hard being you.
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2011 - 01:15am PT
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Only one month of flight school I should be able to make this type of precision maneuver also.
If I have a box cutter razor blade in my hand it will definitely make it easier .....
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 28, 2011 - 01:33am PT
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Some thoughts:
Like most, I accepted the Official Story on how the 9-11 attacks happened. Then one day, several years after the 9-11 Commission Report came out, I was watching TV and saw a program about it all.
I came into the middle of the broadcast where they were talking about how it took over 2 years for Bush to OK a special commission to review what happened on that stomach-turning day. On top of that, when he finally did form a commission to review what had happened, he under funded it and put Henry Kissinger in charge.
The broadcast I watched compared the WH's response to the responses of other major events, such as the quick and fully funded response to find out what happened in the Challenger mishap.
I found this really strange, the biggest attack *ever* on American soil, and the president didn't willingly form a task force to look into it?
Then other things happened that didn't make much sense, such as when Bush and Cheney refused to be interviewed about the 9-11 events, unless they could pre-screen the questions, have no taping device in the room when questioned, not allow follow-up questions, and give a very limited time for the interview. Also strange is that they demanded that both of them needed to be together when questioned.
Wow, really?
Yes, really.
When I heard this, I asked myself "Why would key officials act in such a suspicious manner?" What is it they are trying to hide??
This only made me more curious about the 9-11 story, and in looking into it I found many things that didn't add up into a nice neat package like the Official Story wanted me to believe.
When you watch a Hollywood action flick, you have to employ what is known as the "suspension of disbelief" if you want to enjoy the plot of the movie. The Official Story is much like this--you have to suspend your disbelief if you are to believe the story. The 9-11 gig is a bit different though, because so many of the things in the Official Story contradict themselves and are flat out falsehoods, that to swallow it, you have to really not care.
The Official Story has so many areas where key information is withheld and the facts so twisted, that a critical-thinking person must begin to wonder. And in wondering, a thinking person questions why would they twist any of facts at all? Why claim that folks made cell phone calls from the airplanes? Why would they make up this lie?
So you can make fun of me, and all the other hundreds of thousands of people who don't believe the Official Story, but it won't make me suspend my disbelief as is required of me to believe the tall tale that's been told to us.
If you believe the tale, that's your choice. But to me, you aren't using your ability to reason when they tell you they found Atta's undamaged passport in the street minutes after he flew a plane into the World Trade Center in an action so violent that it vaporized the plane in an explosion, and produced a fire so hot that it melted the structural steel in the building.
Sure, I might be able to suspend my disbelief for one such event, but there are simply too many unbelievable things contained in the Official Story for me to believe that they could have all taken place. It's simply more unbelievable than any Hollywood action movie. And, if the Official Story contains even one single lie, we should all be asking ourselves this: "Why would they lie?"
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 28, 2011 - 01:47am PT
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I would pay 50 bucks towards an experiment to see what size hole one of those planes would make in such a building.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people would. No matter which side of the story they believe.
+2 for what K man wrote.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 28, 2011 - 02:05am PT
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Nicely stated K-man.
2 thumbs up.
For me it was what happened at the Pentagon that got me to open my eyes. It was basically a challenge from a student to look into it.
I did. And the OCT fell apart from there when I honestly looked at all the evidence.
And if they lied there, then everything else is a lie also . . . and sure enough it is.
Micheal Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon took care of the means, motive, and opportunity.
It was a bitter hard pill to swallow.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 28, 2011 - 02:07am PT
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Why couldn't a fighter jet travel 250 miles in over an hour to intercept the fourth, obviously errant flight, as had been supposedly ordered by Cheney?
They were using advanced stealth box cutter technology. They couldn't find the plane.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 28, 2011 - 02:18am PT
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I still want to see Werner's experiment.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 28, 2011 - 04:10am PT
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Even had a conversation with a lady whose brother was an AA pilot and she told me it is generally well known in Airline circles that the plane was shot down.
It is not "well known" and the idea the shooting down a commercial airliner anywhere east of the Mississippi is going to go unnoticed or be covered up is utterly ludicrous.
This is from United Air Lines Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret.) who actually flew these planes during his career.
Well, my father is a retired UAL captain and both brothers are Fedex captains and all three think it was entirely possible for the hijackers to have accomplished the feat.
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Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
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Aug 28, 2011 - 09:36am PT
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Tami-
You're crediting k-man with open-mindedness? Nobody is more closed-minded than people like him, that have a fixed belief and refuse to look at evidence that contradicts their prejudices. They swerve, obfuscate and squirm to avoid being confronted with such evidence.
Did you notice how the subject swerved away from the Pentagon into the wild realms of generalised 9-11 conspiracy? How he pretended to himself that he'd posted the evidence I politely asked him for?
Open-minded? Pull the other one. If this person was genuinely open-minded, and a serious student, he could personally interview the witnesses themselves. One of them posted on this site you may have noticed. (However, I certainly wouldn't expect many such people directly personally affected by these events to greet the likes of him with a cheery smile).
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2011 - 10:21am PT
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Well, we don't use statute miles! We use KNOTS! So, this translates to about 460 Knots, which is exactly 110 knots ABOVE Vmo of 350 Kts at about 1000' above MSL (sea level)!
It's obvious that there was an even deeper level to the plot. The explosive bolts that Boeing included in the design that make the wings fall off at 351 Kts must have been disconnected by the FAA.
They were in on it too.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 28, 2011 - 10:38am PT
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Werner's experiment was already done.
It was done 2X using the WTC towers.
Both jets left an exact outline/profile through the building materials. Through massive steel beams on the outside of both WTC towers, like massive cookie cutters punched them out.
Sure, it wasn't the same exact building materials but good enough.
We see no outline profile of anykind at the Pentagon. Where the wings would have completely impacted the Pentagon from tip to tip, no equivalent or consistant damage to the Pentagon. Where the very tall vertical stabalizer would have impacted the Pentagon, we have intact windows from the top of the second floor to the bottom of the windows on the 4th floor. Zip. Nada. Nothing. No consistant damage. Where the 2 massive engines would have impacted the Pentagon, again no consistant or equivalent damage. The main fuselage could barely have squeezed through the 16'hole. No massive wreckage of anykind. All that supposed wreckage from a 757 just completely vaporized, vanished. 2 massive engines made with very high temperature resistant alloys nowhere to be found. Not buying it. And those that do aviation accident investigations are not buying it either.
People who survived "the bomb" from within the Pentagon who worked there, like April Gallop (who by the way is sueing the US government and who also has beed harassed and threatened) and came out through the 16 hole have said they saw nothing inside to indicate that a massive jet just came through. Nothing. Many people on the first response team and the clean-up have said the same thing.
What we do see is completely consistant with something much smaller like a missile. Many witnesses have testified to smelling the explosive, smelling the Cordite.
What Really happened on 9/11? Come and hear 9/11 eyewitness/mother from Pentagon
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3965407869390415574#
"April Gallop was at the Pentagon with her 2 months old baby, when the 9/11 explosion at the pentagon blew her off her feet. April walked out of the crater hole in the Pentagon injured, but alive. Come and hear April's first hand testimony of what She saw on 9/11. The testimony that the 9/11 commission and the major/dominant news media have shamelessly kept from you and the American People!"
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2011 - 11:02am PT
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Well, my father is a retired UAL captain and both brothers are Fedex captains and all three think it was entirely possible for the hijackers to have accomplished the feat.
Hypothesis, theory, then experiment.
The guy couldn't even pilot a little consumer plane.
The modern scientists in this thread here just do hypothesis, theory, and no experiment, then run their mouths .......
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2011 - 11:07am PT
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No
YOU ......
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