Health Care changes

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Messages 161 - 180 of total 1033 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Nov 1, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
I have heard from a nurse that Canada does not treat people over 70 for certain things like heart attacks?

Thats reasonably amusing, but the only place I know of where they ask you for your credentials before sending the ambulance is the USA.

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 1, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
Obama and the she bitch have trust upon us a health care plane they NEVER READ. And they are opted out of.

Drink the kool aid.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 1, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
Face the music. Our gover goobooer's don't care about the future of the population they are supposed the represent. Doesn't matter whether they are dems or pubs, they just want to fleece us like sutpid lambs.

Werner is right.....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 1, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
Ezekiel Emanuel (Rahm's Bro) is he philosophical author of the Unaffordable Healthcare Act and reflects "progressive" thinking all the way back to the eugenicists of the turn of the last century.



His theory;

the Complete lives system.

http://bme.ccny.cuny.edu/faculty/mbikson/Courses/BMESeniorDesign/EthicsOfHealthRationing.pdf


Anyone not of "instrumental Value" particularly those under 14 or over 40 are dead weight and not socially productive and economic priorities should outweigh all others.

Are those that pursue potentially injurious and completely non productive pursuits like climbing or base jumping also candidates for the euthanasia needle, or the amputators saw?

Welcome to the Brave New World!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Nov 1, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
can we call all canadians "frost dicks" from here on out? awesome.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
can we call all canadians "frost dicks" from here on out? awesome.

Yeah, they are the one's laughing. This is serious shee.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
May I ask this question? Why is it that Americans don't have the freedom to choose their own health insurance? I just don't get it. Why must the liberal nanny state make decisions for us? We can make them ourselves, thank you very much. It's like choosing a car, buying a home or investing in a stock. We can handle it.

..............

No, this is federal coercion at its worst. And that's why the public is turning against it. It's not freedom.

Of course, there are other structural problems to Obamacare that are both unfair and unaffordable. Mainly, younger healthy people are not going to subsidize older sicker folks. We should take care of the latter with transparent government subsidies, and not by trying to redistribute resources (again) from the young to the old.

Or then there's the Medicaid entitlement. It's already out of control and close to bankruptcy. But in the early days of Obamacare, Medicaid sign-ups are exploding, all while sign-ups for private plans on the new exchanges are minuscule.

Between the president's broken promises, the millions of policy cancellations, the continued website breakdowns and the unaffordable, unfair con game between the healthy young and the sicker old, this Obamacare monster is well on its way to collapsing of its own weight.

But here's the bigger point: All this is the inevitable result of massive central-planning exercises to control the economy. That's not freedom.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101164217
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
"If you like your plan you can keep it"

BS. I lost my plan and will pay much more in the future for less coverage. Obama flat out lied.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
"If you like your plan you can keep it"

BS. I lost my plan and will pay much more in the future for less coverage. Obama flat out lied.

Oh please...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/01/1252375/-Consumer-Reports-destroys-rate-shock-horror-story?Detail=facebook

Curt
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
The truth shall set you free

Obama: Always The Last One To Know

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney Confirmed Secretary Sebelius’ Claims That The Administration “Did Not Know” The Significance Of The Glitches Until After The Rollout Began
http://www.gop.com/news/research/last-one-to-know/


Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 1, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
Curt wrote:
The design for the ACA was one of conservative, Republican origin.

So I read Krugman's column and went to the site he linked. I guess I don't understand why not even one of even the most moderate republicans voted for ACA. What were the republican demands that were rejected by democrats?

This reminds me of the "fix" for Social Security.
Back in the 80's, Daniel Patrick Moynihan proposed partial privatization of SS to keep it solvent. The republicans rejected it because it was a democrat idea.
After the 2000 election, George W Bush proposed partial privatization of SS to keep it solvent. The democrats rejected it because it was a republican idea.

My instincts tell me that both parties suck.
As the great philosopher Rodney King once said: "Can't we all just get along?"
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:03am PT
Oh please...

It is true. Suck Obama's dick as much as you want.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:28am PT
jghedge wrote:
You obviously don't follow politics too much

The way some of us prioritize our lives, we would see that as a feature, not a bug.
I'm just looking for the truth. Too many here are blindly shouting "Hurray for my team".
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:31am PT
jghedge wrote:
JUNK HEALTH INSURANCE is either being upgraded to meet current standards, or is being cancelled.

My ex-wife was making a rational decision with her catastrophic type plan when she decided not to pool her money with others for the day-to-day expenses incurred before anything big happens. She decided not to subsidize other people's routine health care. She had insurance to cover her if something really expensive were to come up.

Now those who "know better than her", of what is in her own best interests, are deciding for her.
Busybodies.
Wonderful.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:46am PT
It is true. Suck Obama's dick as much as you want.

Unfortunately, I'm at a loss to counter such a profoundly intellectual proposition. Do you have anything remotely constructive to add?

Curt
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 08:26am PT
jghedge wrote:
There has to be gov't cost controls on medical goods and services -

No doubt the healthcare system has been dysfunctional.
Should the government impose cost controls on medical schools? (That may self correct with online courses)
Taxes on lifestyle choices that may impact the system? (Climbing risks?)
New laws to restrict lifestyle choices? (Top rope only on this route)
Tort reform? Cost control malpractice insurance?
As the wish list grows, the army needed to regulate and oversee it grows.
Cost controls on the government overseers of healthcare? (Weren't middle men part of the cost problem before?)

I don't have answers, just a lot of questions. I have seen a safety culture grow in the corporate world to the point of being ridiculous, but also reducing injuries. (A pumpkin carving with kids the other day would have been shut down in the corporate world with adults doing it without cut gloves, non-cutting cutting tools, safety glasses, steel toed shoes, ergonomic chairs and tables, etc).

Riley Wyna and JEleazarian, as two examples, have made excellent and compelling points from opposite sides of the issue and I thank them for their civil contributions. Partisan hoorahs have only illustrated what's wrong in Washington DC.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 2, 2013 - 10:43am PT
We have not yet been reduced to savagery, but our incompetence increases in large groups to such a staggering extent that it often seems not to be worth the trouble. Individual geniuses can occasionally carry large groups on their shoulders, micromanaging them, terrorizing them and motivating them, the way that tribal chieftains do, but without that singular personality the whole thing collapses.

The United States government is the ultimate giant unworkable mess. It is a living cargo cult where everyone marches around following routines that are supposed to yield great prosperity, but never do. The processes themselves are broken and make no sense, but the cargo culturers of the government cannot and will not hear that. They know that the government will magically make everything work.

Because government is progress. Government is modernity. Government is magic.

The cargo culters on the islands, who once witnessed the might and power of the American military during WW2 make American flags and uniforms, they build airstrips and wooden control towers, and wait for the planes to land and make them rich. They don't understand why these things should work, but they do them anyway because that is how they remember it happening.

Our own cargo culters invoke FDR and JFK, they talk about the New Deal and the Great Society, they make grand promises and roll out big programs, and then they wait for it all to work. They don't understand themselves how or why it would work. But government is magic and the appearance of a thing is just as good as a real deal.

Build a website and it will work. Pass a law and they will come. Get a degree and you're competent.

There is no need to know how to do a thing. You don't need engineers or competent men. All you need to do is remember the great dreams of the past, listen to a few inspirational JFK speeches and then carve a computer out of wood and wait for free health care to arrive.

In cargo cult America, the food is free, the cell phones are free and the money can be printed forever because government is magic.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/government-is-magic.html
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2013 - 09:51am PT

Update from here: my state doesn't have the first person signed up yet. The governor has announced that he has chosen to get a bunch of bureaucrats hired to print up and process written applications. The first of 7,000 apps should just be arriving now they say.

That's change. Here's to hope.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
Now the President is getting called out for lying again - his recent televised speech on health care. Don't know why he couldn't have just told the truth, we'd understand and wait. Wouldn't we? It's true, the folks taking the calls have to use the computer and it's screwed up.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/05/obama-relies-on-false-hope-to-sell-obama

"Obama Relies on False Hope to Sell Obamacare
Even the statement that consumers can apply for insurance without using HealthCare.gov was deceptive.

When the October launch of Obamacare’s online insurance portals went disastrously awry, the Obama administration had a handy communications strategy ready: Distract people with false hope.


On Oct. 21, as the online federal exchange system at the heart of President Obama’s health law entered its third week of widespread failures, the president gave a televised speech in which he admitted that there were “kinks in the system,” but also insisted that the exchange problems could be worked around, because the online insurance portals weren’t the only way to enroll in coverage.

“While the website will ultimately be the easiest way to buy insurance through the marketplace, it isn't the only way,” he said. “I want to emphasize this … you can still buy the same quality affordable insurance plans available on the marketplace the old-fashioned way, offline—either over the phone or in person.” The application process, Obama said, would only take about 25 minutes for an individual.

As workarounds go, it was appealing enough. It was also basically useless. The 25-minute application process he touted didn’t actually provide way to avoid the problems of the exchanges. That’s because the paper applications would eventually have to be submitted into the online enrollment system. And if the system didn’t work, then neither would the supposed workarounds.

This was not exactly a secret to the administration officials managing the Obamacare rollout. They were well aware that paper applications filled out with the help of navigators or call center workers were still dependent on the functionality of the online system. Yet the president went on television to promote the phone and paper processes anyway, reading out the toll-free call-in number like a late-night TV pitchman. Kathleen Sebelius used a similar line in Phoenix a few days later.

The reasoning behind the decision to make workarounds a focus of the president’s message can perhaps be found in newly leaked meeting notes from the Obamacare “war room.” Notes from a meeting held the morning of Oct. 11 show that when questions arose about paper applications, the discussion turned to their symbolic impact. “The paper applications allow people to feel like they are moving forward in the process and provides another option,” the leaked document says. But that additional option provided no substantive benefit. “At the end of the day, we are all stuck in the same queue.”

Similar thinking seems to have informed the decision by some navigators—individuals paid to assist with enrollment in coverage through the law—to encourage individuals to fill out paper applications. "Navigators are seeing people very frustrated and walking away,” notes from the Oct. 15 meeting say, “so they are turning to paper applications to protect their reputations as people in the communities who can help, even though paper applications will not have a quicker result necessarily."

The motivation here was twofold: to try to keep people from being discouraged, and to protect their own reputations as purveyors of help. But let’s be honest: The hope they offered wasn’t real. It was a deception designed to hide the fact that they had nothing to offer.

Six days later, when President Obama stood on the White House lawn and made the same pitch to the entire nation, that was still true. Indeed, it’s been true throughout the administration’s health law sales pitches.

The president’s promises that individuals could keep health plans and doctors were false, and his senior advisers knew it, but decided to mislead people anyway because it made for a better sales pitch. The administration’s repeated assurances that the exchange system was on schedule and on track to work were either intentionally incompetent or deliberately misleading. Obama promised the exchanges would work fine despite not having run complete system tests; multiple senior administration officials claimed they didn't have enrollment data, even though it's clear that Obamacare's overseers had early numbers in hand. On health care, the administration has never had much to offer except distraction, deception, and false hope designed to bolster its own reputation and hide the empty promises it could not keep.

With this record of evasions and incompetence, it is impossible to trust anything the administration says about the health law and its implementation. The only questions that remain are how bad it becomes, for how long, and what deceptions remain to be revealed. What, in other words, are we being given false hope about now?"

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 5, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
It is true. Suck Obama's dick as much as you want.

Curt, yeah, that is a bit over the top and I am now on his NSA radar.

I don't have the time to look into the details, but shouldn't our goober representatives have done their homework before pushing this through?

I am at this point neither dem or pub. They all suck, suck, suck, suck!

I'm all for a national health insurance plan. I hate to see what jello and others are going through and am willing to pony up within reason. But Obama's plan is a turd. He just won't admit it and keeps spinning the BS.
Messages 161 - 180 of total 1033 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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