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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Great article, Fitch. In addition to the humanity of the situation, it points out that the brunt of the financial costs of this whole charade are not on the shoulders of some alien, totalitarian government but the taxpayers of Harney County.
The indictments will be unsealed tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see if additional charges were returned.
Dumbassery in the First Degree
Brandishing a Weapon while Deliberately Misinterpreting the Constitution
Improper Use of a Phallic Implement
Gross Negligence in Preparation for a Siege
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Escopeta. I am relieved to discover that you know everything and there is no need to provide a basis for any opinion so long as it is presented as fact.
In order to contribute meaningfully to the discussion you have to at least be well read enough to have a grasp of political thought and historical accounts dating back to a time prior to your own birth.
I'm sorry that you haven't reached the mental equivalent of "You must be this tall to ride".
Maybe you can bone up on your European history and be better prepared to discern the difference between opinion and things that actually happened.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Fat dad,
There's lots of things is your post that are worthy of a response, but this statement:
Laws are intended to provide boundries so we can govern our conduct.
Is the one that I would argue shows the challenges with our web of laws and legislation.
I'm of the opinion that laws should be general and abstract. More and more our web of laws is intended to direct and command specific actions or outcomes. (Admittedly, legislation is probably more an abuser of of this).
I also believe that laws should be well known and certain. Our citizens should be able to reasonably know in advance whether or not their actions comply with the law. We have such a ridiculous web of laws criminalizing so many things that people are felons on a regular basis and don't even know it. We should able to at least hold onto a little of the concept of mens rea
What we have today is increasingly nothing more than government by waiver whereby everything is outlawed and only the rich and powerful are able to escape the enforcement actions.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Maybe you can bone up on your European history and be better prepared to discern the difference between opinion and things that actually happened.
Yes professor, I am sorry I doubted your authority which you have now clearly established. I will get to work on the assignment. BTW, what size hat do you wear?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Dumbassery in the First Degree
Brandishing a Weapon while Deliberately Misinterpreting the Constitution
Improper Use of a Phallic Implement
Gross Negligence in Preparation for a Siege
That was a good one!
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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¿Hablas Español? Porque tú eres tonto. Serio gordo!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I'm of the opinion that laws should be general and abstract....I also believe that laws should be well known and certain.
Can you provide an example of a law that is general and abstract while at the same time being well known and certain? I'm having difficulty comprehending your meaning.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Escopeta posted I'm of the opinion that laws should be general and abstract. More and more our web of laws is intended to direct and command specific actions or outcomes.
The more abstract the law is the more open to interpretation by a court it is and the more conflict people will have about what it means. Vague laws do not necessarily protect freedom, they just allow for more subjective reading. If you want laws to be less restrictive you're far better off making them narrow and specific. If you want to prevent certain types of people from purchasing guns, for instance, you're far better off writing a law that specifies who they are instead of one that states "people who demonstrate a lack of reasonable judgment shall be prohibited from possessing a firearm."
Additionally, "law" is not just what's written on the books it's what the established case law is. The more abstract the law, the more important the case law.
Escopeta posted (Admittedly, legislation is probably more an abuser of of this).
Legislation is law...not sure what you mean by that. Who else would be writing direct and specific laws?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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¿Hablas Español? Porque tú eres tonto. Serio gordo!
ir a acostarse
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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What we have today is increasingly nothing more than government by waiver whereby everything is outlawed and only the rich and powerful are able to escape the enforcement actions
Esco
Wow
Where do you get this stuff?
I can tell you, Fear
Fear of the one thing you feel powerless against
All your anti-Gov. rhetoric is based on a Completely irrational fear
That's why you can't describe it, because it doesn't really exist.
I'm free as a bird, I have zero fear of my freedoms ever being taken away.
That is a rational person's reaction to the same Gov.
These right wing militias have the same problem, irrational fear of the one thing they feel completely powerless against, so what else can they do other than stock pile weapons and keep a lookout for the Feds that are sure to come and get em
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WBraun
climber
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Craig Fry -- "I'm free as a bird, ..."
Even a bird's freedom is very limited.
Actually Craig you're not free at all ......
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Craig thinks the size of his aviary dictates his level of freedom.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Whoa Whoa Whoa.... somebody called me?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Yeah, it's a Tabby cat.....
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Even a bird's freedom is very limited.
Actually Craig you're not free at all ......
At least they are free to crap on what ever they want...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Actually Craig you're not free at all ......
So..that begs the question: Are YOU free, Werner?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Any news on the indictments yet?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I'm of the opinion that laws should be general and abstract. More and more our web of laws is intended to direct and command specific actions or outcomes.
Terribly dangerous.
What this does is give all the power to those in power. If a law is general and abstract, then how do you know if you are violating it?
Your interpretation may be VERY different than the inspector, cop, or court. And remember that the officials are always believed more than the person.
Does an ordinance that states that the front yards of houses must be kept neat and clean mean that you cannot do car repairs in your driveway?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Ordinance? We don't need no stinking ordinance!!
We need freedom gawdamnit!!
We've already shown we can handle unrestricted freedom. heh heh....
FREEEEEDOM!!!
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