Rancher +Militia vs BLM,trouble on the range.(OT)

This is tough situation. Cliven Bundy has called the bluff, and it ain't working out. If I were the judge at this point, let Bundy go uncharged for back-charges as long as he pays forward or gets out of there. I feel for this guy and want the best for him.

Fluffy and Crankster, posting in the true spirit of debate !

Apr 23, 2014 - 02:25am PT

"I've lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements," Bundy said.

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.

...

Early census records show Cliven's maternal grandmother, Christena Jensen, was born in Nevada in 1901. One genealogical researcher says records indicate Jensen helped settle Bunkerville some years later.

...

The local Paiute Indians were forced into reservations by federal troops in 1875. Two years prior, the tribe was promised the same land Cliven Bundy now grows his melons ,and until recently, grazed his cattle.


http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny


Tl;dr: no ancestral rights. No claims to the land he's grazing on. No water rights to the land he's grazing on. This guy is either a huge liar or hilariously misinformed about his property and ancestry. Probably both.

Apr 22, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
SO I've been staying away from this slugfest for a week. There's a good chance I've missed a good debunking of Cliven Bundy

But in case it didn't get posted here, the Las Vegas TV news "I Team" has dug around in the historical records.
Blundy is either stoopider or more deceitful than at first appeared (even I bought some of his family story)

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny


Bundy explained his "ancestral rights" to the I-Team.

"I've lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements," Bundy said.
Hard to decipher what Bundy claims from that gobbledygook. The "Virgin Valley" goes well up into Utah. One branch goes through Toquerville.


Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.

The Bureau of Land Management was created 1946, the same year Cliven was born.
EDIT:
OOPS....Wrong! No significant part of the Virgin River is in Arizona.

Virgin River Gorge
blah blah
Dyamn, you're right. I sit corrected. The Virgin River cuts across the extreme upper left of AZ.
End EDIT


Early census records show Cliven's maternal grandmother, Christena Jensen, was born in Nevada in 1901. One genealogical researcher says records indicate Jensen helped settle Bunkerville some years later.

Wasn't Bundy claiming his property rights go back to his family in 1877?

Bundy repeated a similar claim Thursday when he told TheBlaze website: “My family has preemptive, adjudicated livestock water rights filed with the state of Nevada. They were established in 1877 when the first pioneers entered the valley. Among those first pioneers were my grandparents from my mother’s side. My father either bought or inherited his Nevada state livestock water rights and I, in turn, have done the same.”

There's a lot more here.
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history

None of which of course has any bearing on his so-called "right" to graze for free on BLM land.