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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
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The indictment was unsealed, the usual suspects plus the Fab Four currently occupying the refuge. The militia plans to spring the four idiots this weekend with a mass demonstration. I predict epic fail.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Say - did I miss Escopeta's response to my question about how he and his clones were so deeply principled as to reject the one (or was it seven) trillion) dollar government bailout of Wall Street?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Terribly dangerous.
What this does is give all the power to those in power. If a law is general and abstract, then how do you know if you are violating it?
Your interpretation may be VERY different than the inspector, cop, or court. And remember that the officials are always believed more than the person.
Does an ordinance that states that the front yards of houses must be kept neat and clean mean that you cannot do car repairs in your driveway?
I just wanted to paste this as a monument of something written by a person that a few pages back was waxing poetic about how free he is and how much his freedom has expanded in his lifetime. Carry on, comrade.
Happiegirl, stand by, I'm working/traveling
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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I guess the only freedom Escopeta believes in is the freedom of the 1%ers to steal all of the cash from the remaining 99% of the population.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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He is more free Ron.
It's your stupid ideas of abstract and vague laws that would make him/all less free.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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El Chapo si, milicia no, puto!
I am proposing that some of these "kkkowboys" invade some of his tunnels and see how long that lasts.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Check this out. Cliven "let me tell you another thing about the negro" Bundy sends this certified letter to the local sheriff informing him that he intends to retain posession of the refuge.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Amazon now delivering alcohol in San Diego
Can Oregon be far behind.
And bullets - no problemo, puto.
Weed and dildos can't be far behind.
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kattz
climber
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Bundy and Co. are not about "freedom" for anyone by themselves.
Occupying public lands isn't their only conviction, they got plenty of totalitarian views and extremely hateful views, as evidenced by the poison their supporters habitually spew (hint: what do they think about rights of women, rights of minorities? No freedom for these! "Might is right" is their only idea of "freedom") No thanks.
Old Bundy's facebook is looking more and more like a looney house bulletin by the day.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Oh, jeez.
I just got my biennial jury duty notice.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Lorenzo, just show up for yer jury selection wearing a Bundy button, you'll be home for lunch.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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I bet that the notary got a chuckle when she signed that document from Bundy.
Notary's really have only one function. Yes, they say that it was this person on this day signing this document, but the document would still have the same force and effect without the notary.
You need a notary's signature to file anything in the County Clerk's office, in whatever area that the land lies. You need a notary to file in the courthouse. That's it. Your bank will do it for free.
Their signature has no real meaning, although I'm sure that there have been lawsuits over who signed a deed or other instrument.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Wrong Base,
The Kings Land Reconciliation and Disbursement Act of 1586 set the precedent that empowered the vassal of the state with the power of ad susceptum perficiendum only if a King's notary made his mark on the document of reproach.
The only judge empowered by We The People, Bruce Doucette, has determined that this is indeed the law. By the transitory theory of law supported by Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson in document #283.
If you've never heard of any of this, you are a lamb of the totalitarian state that our once great nation has become. WAKE UP!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Happiegrl,
The essence of my advocating for abstract and general laws lies in things that we learned probably before kindergarten.
Don't hit other people.
Don't take other people's stuff
Keep your promises.
The essence is that the laws should be there to protect people's rights (physical, property and contracts in order of above) Those rights are there as a matter of course, just as our constitution assumes, and the laws are there to protect our rights.
While maybe not the best example, one that many of us might relate to is in the case of forest fires. The modern approach to keeping people from burning down a forest for example is to weave a web of laws designed to orchestrate the outcome of not burning down the forest. Don't do this, don't do that. Aka: fireworks are outlawed, no campfires, you are required to have spark arresters, steel jacketed bullets are outlawed, climbing gear must be dipped in anti-static coating and so and so forth. The end game, which we are actually starting to see in some cases of society is that virtually everything gets outlawed in an effort to achieve some specific outcome.
I would argue that protecting property and making the act of burning someone else's property illegal is sufficient and crime and punishment works from there for any person that deviates.
That model allows for people to live their lives with maximum freedom but still protects the so-called "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" of others.
Perhaps most important is that everyone knows the boundaries and consequences. I find it beyond reproach that our government is incapable of telling you everything that is or is not a crime yet can hold you criminally responsible for unknowingly running afoul of some random ordinance.
The typical response is "but what about stop signs and speed limits" and such nonsense. I take no issue with orderly execution of society in that manner, but I do indeed take issue with the side effect of prosecuting victimless crimes and funding the road piracy that is our current policing of things like transportation. For a separate discussion indeed.
The basis tenet is that I believe that if you protect people's "person, property and contractual obligations" then social order is derived from the freedom to live your life how you see fit vs being told what outcome is desired by someone other than you.
How could we possibly get there from here? Well, I know that when my boat is sinking I try to fix the leak before I focus on bailing the water. How about we take the first step and stop the madness and work from there.
EDIT: replaced happiness with contractual obligations. Happiness was a typo of sorts that I didn't intend to use.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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I'm well aware of that mister brennan, please explain that to Ron who thinks these types of laws are needed. I think abstract and vague laws make us less free, as I stated above and you can reread now, still from my former post.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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This morning's paper reported that the remaining four holdouts
have also been indicted. No more snacks for them.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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The Y'allqueda affiliates Inc. And Co. are planning a big non violent March to FREE THE FAB FOUR without charges tomorrow though. Should grab some headlines, which is what they're all about these days.
Interesting stat: Friends of Malheur FB page has 4,600 likes and Bundy Ranch FB page has over 173,000.....
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Interesting fact...
Each time the yeehawdists have called for "Thousands" to assemble, they've gotten closer to 100.
The last time, locals outnumbered them 4 to 1.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Don't hit other people.
Don't take other people's stuff
Keep your promises.
This is the law of common sense, which applies in the court of spirituality. Unfortunately, that doesn't much help when it comes to people who don't have those basic tenets in their life, or do at times and others not.
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dirtbag
climber
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If I was a blm or forest service employee working in remote locations I would not feel safe.
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