Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired in Appalachia
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
|
My turn to chime in.
There is nothing wrong with guiding.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
|
The way to restore Mount Everest is to (1) remove all the fixed gear; (2) require all groups to pack out their O2 bottles and other debris; and (3) make foreign guiding illegal. I'll bet most of the people in Everest base camp today don't own their own gear.
Lets say there are 700 people now, round it off and say 200 parties per year. At $10,000 per permit, it's only $2 million dollars. Someone was claiming the govt of Nepal doesnt care if people die on Everest because they're getting rich off permit fees. It doesnt compute. Somebody look up the GDP of Nepal, I have no idea but the overall tourism business is infinitely larger.
So I don't really see any obstacles, except that the whole business is really up to the Nepalis to decide. Who's going to be opposed to cleaning up all this mess? Aside from a handful of guides and the people who already paid deposits for next year.
|
|
murf02
climber
NYC
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
|
Guiding any mountain responsible can be morally defensible. Is giving the green light to clients and climbing sherpas in crazy bottleneck conditions at over 28,700' responsible?
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
|
Jim, when I think of things that are not morally defensible, guiding Everest is not anywhere near the top of the list.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
|
Soooo wrong....hardly, fits right in with the current scene.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
|
Does not look like she cranks hard. Isa is 100 times hotter;)
|
|
Mister_Roborto
Trad climber
Queensland
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 10:18pm PT
|
The speed machine hanging out with strippers in BC - that dude sure has courage. If Mrs. Steck kicks him out, I've space in my van parked in Argentiere.
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
|
Ron, our fluffer "big gal" is dead. Maybe we can hire this 'stripper' as part time replacement?
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:37pm PT
|
south col route
Guide - "okay sheeple tighten it up, as#@&%e to belly button, we got 300 more we gotta get onto this rope".
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
|
No. this is useful.
In the near future we will be able to determine how silicone degrades at altitude.
|
|
Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
|
So in a way, the current Everest scene is a living laboratory for testing how market values stand up to nature. What is rational and what is practical do not always merge on a cute chart. Perhaps this should stand for the lesson of the week by Professor Donini. Nature wins.
The moral dimensions may be personal but the market has clearly failed...
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
|
It seems likely that was has recently happened on Chomolungma will not make an iota of difference to the number who buy their way onto the mountain next year. It may even stimulate the market, in some perverse way.
|
|
nature
climber
CO
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
|
Nature wins
feels like a hollow victory....
|
|
TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
|
Build a mountain, and THEY will come.
TY
|
|
Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
|
May 21, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
|
It may even stimulate the market, in some perverse way.
Could we hedge on it?
|
|
murf02
climber
NYC
|
|
|
May 22, 2012 - 12:01am PT
|
Shar-Klorfine's website:
http://myeverestexpedition.com/sponsors.php
She registered for basic climbing gear(carabiner is a key chain) as you would a baby shower or wedding.
Very disturbing, the whole mess.
|
|
slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
|
|
|
May 22, 2012 - 12:57am PT
|
t seems likely that was has recently happened on Chomolungma will not make an iota of difference to the number who buy their way onto the mountain next year.
And that is exactly the problem as I see it. Someone quite a ways upthread made a comparison between a guide with inexperienced clients and a party in which one or more members were partnered with others that were inexperienced or at least had less experience, asking what the difference was, implying (unless my reading comprehension skills are going to shit) that there wasn't much.
I'm gong to make a distinction between high altitude guiding and others, and yes, I understand that there's a continuing degree of grey between the two. In high altitude mountaineering the margin for error, be it human or the consequences of weather, cerebral or pulmonary edema, or whatever else can and will go wrong on a big mountain, are slim. Much less than guiding a client on a multi pitch one day climb or a big wall. If things go wrong in the former chances for survival, for the client as well as the guide, are much less than the latter. And how much vetting of a client's climbing skills takes place on these types of climbs, Everest or otherwise?
The financial incentive of a guided ascent on a big mountain only makes the situation that much more volatile. I doubt that there are any financial guarantees that a guided client will summit, ie. no refunds, sorry. But if a guiding company doesn't perform well in getting clients to the summit, even if it's due to the mountain being unsafe at the time, will they see as many clients the next year? There is a financial imperative to succeed, to summit, and I can easily see how that can translate to poor decisions in regard to overall safety.
As far as unguided climbs where there are more and less experienced climbers the big difference is that the more experienced climbers aren't getting paid. You don't take someone with little experience up a big mountain because it's your ass on the line and if the sh#t hits the fan you hope that your partner or team has the necessary rudimentary skills to get you out.
I'm sure that many of us have taken new climbers on their first outing. I'm also sure that most of us make sure that their first outing is on easy terrain (for us) and not something more difficult where the margin for error is much less.
My .02 but probably more like .50 because I'm wordy like that.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
May 22, 2012 - 01:06am PT
|
Well, someone I know seems to have gotten to the top via the north ridge in the last few days. It says so on the website of Canada's Liberal Leader, Bob Rae, which in turns quotes a twitter feed: "My friend Sam Wyatt just made it to the peak of Mt Everest ! Amazing achievement, I'm so proud of him..." http://openparliament.ca/politicians/bob-rae/
Sam had climbed Cho Oyu, Denali, and other such things, plus had gotten quite close on Chomolungma in 2009. As for how good friends he and Bob are...
Edit: Apparently the news is true, as the FaceBook page says "Both Steve and Sam are safe and both made successful summit bids on Friday! They are currently leaving ABC and heading to the safety of base camp before heading home. Donate today!" (They did it in part as a fundraiser for Take a Hike Foundation.) http://www.facebook.com/TakeaHikeFoundation
Edit 2: Oops! Yes, Rae is leader of the Liberals, who for the last year have been neither the government nor the official opposition, for the first time since 1867.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!