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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 22, 2012 - 02:02am PT
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The high cost of climbing the big peaks basically demands a commercial operation of some type. In the past sponsored expeditions were the norm; currently guided expeditions are. In past years climbers not in favor of sponsored climbing groused about the violation of climbing purity by sponsored expeditions, now climbers complain about guided climbing and the evils of for-profit climbing on the high peaks.
Since Westerners have been obsessed with the big peaks, mountains of money have tainted the venture.
Lots of respect for small self financed expeditions to the big peaks.
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Enty
Trad climber
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May 22, 2012 - 03:51am PT
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but if you are taking 14 hours to go from EBC to Camp II (this takes the average person 4-6 hours) maybe you should realize that on summit day you are probably going to die.
The guides who let these clients carry on should go to jail.
E
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 22, 2012 - 04:04am PT
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Here's an eyewitness account in case you didn't see it.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1831996/Climber-describes-harrowing-scene-on-Everest
And the final count seems to be four killed. The missing Sherpa made it back to base camp.
One innovation which I found interesting is that Alpine Ascents brings their
people to the South Col and keeps them there for 24 hours on oxygen instead
of bringing them from Camp 3, letting them rest 3-4 hours and then head for
the summit and back down to Camp 2 if possible.
They maintain that they have never had a client with altitude sickness and have
a higher success rate because their clients have 24 hours to rest and
regroup before the final push. The only drawback is that they cost more
because they have to have extra supplies, especially oxygen.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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May 22, 2012 - 06:36am PT
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Dont forget the spacesuits. From one of the associated press articles about the Everest scene: "Ghimire said that eventually, the government plans to set up a seasonal office at the base camp equipped with doctors, weather experts and security personnel."
I've never been to Everest Base Camp but it makes me think of the Ahwanee Hotel and what Yosemite might be like if you had to hike in to get there.
The more infrastructure they build, the more overcrowding of tourists.
I have a feeling we havent seen the end of this disaster yet. The way the news media works, the longer a story plays, the bigger it gets. So if we have another week of people dying one by one on Everest, there is a ready made audience, that should make the Nepali govt feel pressured to do something. But building more infrastructure is exactly the wrong response.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 22, 2012 - 07:14am PT
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Tim - where did you get that info? Can you please provide that link? She was from my home town.
So not only has she left her kids without a mom, she took a hundred grand of net worth out of her estate.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 22, 2012 - 07:57am PT
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Well don't expect the Nepalese government to get involved. They have
more than enough of their own problems right now trying to write a
new Constitution by May 27 which is bound to set off more strikes and
demonstrations and maybe renewed guerilla warfare.
At issue is how Nepal's new system of federalism is to work. The
current draft calls for states running from the Himalayas to the border
and encompassing multiple ethnic groups and ecological zones.
However, the hill tribes who have been badly oppressed for over two
centuries bythe high caste Hindus allied with the former king and
aristocracy, want autonomous homelands based on languages and
ethnicity of which Nepal has a mere 35. They have now shut
Kathmandu down for three days and promise to keep it going
indefinitely or at least until the deadline on the 27th.
Mountaineers could return to riots in the streets or martial law. Since
the prime minister is a Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) member, this
would not make the western embassies happy but China would profit.
Anyway, forget about the government policing the Everst business
anytime soon.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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May 22, 2012 - 08:53am PT
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Body recovery fee insurance, given back if you survive?
Make it high (no pun intended).
Guide companies responsible for that recovery.
"We'll try to get you to the top, but guarantee we'll bring you down."
Just a thought.
That tilted image contains the story doesn't it.
Sad.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 22, 2012 - 10:41am PT
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My friend Sam got to the top from the north early on Saturday morning, and is now in Nepal, on his way home. He was with a small outfitter. One of his teammates apparently died at the bottom of the second step on the descent, but I don't know anything more yet.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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May 22, 2012 - 10:44am PT
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Question- with the apparent current mob scene on Everest, why would any self respecting climber even want to be there?
Or to re-phrase, why would anyone who loves the mountains and loves climbing, want to be there?
How could it possibly be less fantastic to get to the top of 100 other peaks of a little less height anywhere else in the Himalaya - except that you would not then be able to thump your chest to yourself and others about "the highest spot in the world".
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2012 - 10:45am PT
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I wonder how it feels for them to spend so much money and then have to stand in line?
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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May 22, 2012 - 10:50am PT
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Well, Jim, maybe its good that their oxygen starved brains can't process that...
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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May 22, 2012 - 10:51am PT
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I don't know much at all about hiking/walking, especially in the snow and all that mountain stuff... but....
Is that picture real? I mean are there that many people doing a conga line to the summit every day during the push season? If so, I'm really shocked and now wonder why there aren't many deaths every day on that mountain. Save for the HD cables, I've never seen anything like it. Wow....
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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May 22, 2012 - 10:52am PT
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I'm not sure about my position, Re: guiding on Everest, but this thread certainly removes any doubts about my lack of desire to climb same. What a clusterfucque!
I've pretty much ignored the high altitude climbs for the past 20 years; this is reason enough to have done so... Even the Colorado 14ers have degenerated into mob scenes. Example: I climbed Mount Princeton in 2001 with my (then) wife and a business colleague, to find that 50 people had already summited that day! On the other hand we climbed Missouri Mountain 2 days later, to find ourselves the only ones on the summit. Difference? Access and popularity.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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May 22, 2012 - 11:27am PT
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those are just the workers preparing the mountain for the clientel.
oxygen, tents, pads,cookers,laptops,sleeping bags all that stuff has
to be carried up, set up, and hurry to get ready for the guests a fine cheese fondue on the south col.
namaste
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 22, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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What would Hermann Buhl think of that scene?
Bet he would quit climbing.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 22, 2012 - 11:53am PT
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Of course with that many people lined up a single avalanche could cause the kind of massive disaster Tami talked about.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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May 22, 2012 - 12:15pm PT
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Thanks to Donini for consistently providing quality topics. Interesting, provocative and appreciated.
Early on in the thread it was noted that Everest is notable to the public because of the number (tallest peak). Not unlike Whitney in the continental US in some ways.
Well, sure enough, last week the battery in my car was going out. So I got a new one installed. When I was paying, the guy saw the picture of the mountaineer on my credit card.
Question 1: "Do you mountain climb?"
Me: "Yes, I do"
Question 2: "Have you climbed Mt. Everest?"
:-)
I don't blame or fault the guy. What else could he be expected to know and he was just being friendly.
I found it amusing in light of having just read this thread when it happened.
Eric
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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May 22, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
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Ummmm....looks familiar....prospectors on Chilkoot Trail during Alaska Gold Rush. The ones getting wealthy were those that provided supplies and services at the base.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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May 22, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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probably the highest number of affluent people waiting in line since the boarding of the lifeboats on the Titanic...
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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May 22, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
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I wonder how long it takes to get 150 semi oxygen starved, semi experienced climbers up and then down the Hillary Step?
There is a route at Smith called Bunny Face. It's a 5.6 and about 60 feet long. I'll bet it would take the better part of a whole day to get 150 of that level "climber" up and down it.
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