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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 10:33am PT
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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051317.html
Last update - 13:24 31/12/2008
GIDEON LEVY / The IAF, bullies of the clear blue skies
By Gideon Levy
Tags: Gaza, Israel News, Hamas
Our finest young men are attacking Gaza now. Good boys from good homes are doing bad things. Most of them are eloquent, impressive, self-confident, often even highly principled in their own eyes, and on Black Saturday dozens of them set out to bomb some of the targets in our "target bank" for the Gaza Strip.
They set out to bomb the graduation ceremony for young police officers who had found that rare Gaza commodity, a job, massacring them by the dozen. They bombed a mosque, killing five sisters of the Balousha family, the youngest of whom was 4. They bombed a police station, hitting a doctor nearby; she lies in a vegetative state in Shifa Hospital, which is bursting with wounded and dead. They bombed a university that we in Israel call the Palestinian Rafael, the equivalent of Israel's weapons developer, and destroyed student dormitories. They dropped hundreds of bombs out of blue skies free of all resistance.
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In four days they killed 375 people. They did not, and could not, distinguish between a Hamas official and his children, between a traffic cop and a Qassam launch operator, between a weapons cache and a health clinic, between the first and second floors of a densely populated apartment building with dozens of children inside. According to reports, about half of the people killed were innocent civilians. We're not complaining about the pilots' accuracy, it cannot be otherwise when the weapon is a plane and the objective is a tiny, crowded strip of land. Our excellent pilots are effectively bullies now. As in training flights, they bomb undisturbed, facing neither an air force nor defense system.
It is hard to judge what they are thinking, how they feel. It's unlikely to be relevant, anyway. They are measured by their actions. In any event, from an altitude of thousands of feet the picture looks as sterile as a Rorschach inkblot. Lock onto the target, press the button and then a black column of smoke. Another "successful hit." None see the effects on the ground of their actions. Their heads must surely be filled with Gaza horror stories - they themselves have never been there - as if there aren't a million and a half people living there who only want to live with a minimum of honor, some of them young like themselves, with dreams of studying, working, raising a family but who have no chance to fulfill their dreams with or without the bombing.
Do the pilots think about them, the children of refugees whose parents and grandparents have already been driven from their lives? Do they think about the thousands of people they have left permanently disabled in a place without a single hospital worthy of the name and no rehabilitation centers at all? Do they think about the burning hatred they are planting not only in Gaza but in other corners of the world amid the horrific images on television?
It was not the pilots who decided to go to war, but they are the subcontractors. The real accounting must be with the decision makers, but the pilots are their partners. When they return home they will be welcomed with all the respect and honor we reserve for them. It appears that not only will no one try to provoke moral questioning among them, but that they are considered the real heroes of this cursed war. The Israel Defense Forces spokesman is already going over the top with praise in his daily briefings for the "wonderful work" they are doing. He too, of course, completely ignores the images from Gaza. After all, these are not sadistic Border Police officers beating up Arabs in the alleys of Nablus and the center of Hebron, or cruel undercover soldiers who shoot their targets point-blank in cold blood. These, as we have said, are our finest young men.
Maybe if they were to confront the results of their "wonderful work" even once they would regret their decisions, they would reconsider the effects of their actions. If they were to go just once to Jerusalem's Alyn Hospital Pediatric and Adolescent Rehabilitation Center, where for nearly three years Marya Aman, 7, has been hospitalized - she is a quadriplegic who runs her wheelchair, and her life, with her chin - they would be shocked. This adorable little girl was hit by a missile in Gaza that killed almost her entire family, the handiwork of our pilots.
But all of this is well hidden from the pilots' eyes. They are only doing their job, as the saying goes, only following orders like bombing machines. In the past few days they have excelled at this, and the results are there for the entire world to see. Gaza is licking its wounds, just like Lebanon before it, and almost no one pauses for a moment to ask whether all this is necessary, or unavoidable, or whether it contributes to Israel's security and moral image. Is it really the case that our pilots return safely to base, or are they in fact returning to them as callous, cruel and blind people?
Ho Man a Jew bashing Jews! What is the world coming to? Better get Fatty's friends to find and hunt down this terrorist sympathizer. Quick before this traitorous peace movement grows.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:00am PT
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Well Skipper you certainly deserved the Bush administration. And by your reasoning YOU are as guilty of their war crimes and atrocities as the Bush administration is. You voted for the terrorist fool thus you are guilty too. Pack your bags for a trip to the Hague big boy.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:06am PT
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It seem the PLO or whatever name it goes by now is feeding info to the Israelis on where to hit Hamas. Just a bunch of career criminals leading the Paleos.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:15am PT
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one question: what would a "proportionate response" be?
see, this is the kind of vague rhetoric that liberals use when they have no answers...like in the buildup to the iraq war: "we need to try diplomacy a little longer" but nobody would ever say exactly how long
What Would a Proportionate Response Look Like?
Michael J. Totten - 12.30.2008 - 11:19 PM
“If someone was sending rockets on my house where my daughters were sleeping at night, I would do everything to stop it, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.” – President-elect Barack Obama
Now that Hamas’s long war against Israel is matched with a short war in Gaza, protests are erupting everywhere from the blogosphere and Arab capitals to the United Nations, and they began on the very first day. Salon.com blogger Glenn Greenwald calls the Israeli retaliation to more than a year of rocket attacks a “massively disproportionate response.” UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay “strongly condemned Israel’s disproportionate use of force.” The Israeli counterattack is, indeed, disproportionate, but it could hardly be otherwise. “At last count,” J.G. Thayer wrote, “one Israeli and two Palestinians (sisters, ages 13 and 5) died from rocket attacks. So a proportionate response, one presumes, would have required Israel to kill a single Palestinian and two of its own citizens.”
There were, I suppose, other “proportionate” responses available aside from killing one Palestinian and two Israelis. The Israel Defense Forces might have launched thousands of air strikes against targets in Gaza to match the thousands of Qassam rockets fired at the cities of Sderot and Ashkelon. It’s unlikely, however, that this is what Israel’s critics have in mind.
So what do they have in mind? What would a legitimate and “proportionate” response actually look like? Surely they don’t believe Israel should scrap its sophisticated weapons systems, build Qassam rockets, and launch those at Gaza instead.
The “disproportionate response” crowd doesn’t seem to mind that Israel struck back at Hamas per se. They aren’t saying Israel should only be allowed to negotiate with its enemies or that any use of force whatsoever is wrong. They’re clearly saying Israel should use less force, inflict less damage, or both.
One problem here is that it’s not at all clear how they think Israelis should go about doing it. The weapons used by each side can’t be the same. No one has ever said Israel ought to put its superior weapons systems in cold storage until Hamas can develop or purchase something similar. Presumably Israel is allowed to use its superior technology as long as the casualty count on each side is proportionate.
But how would that work in practice? A single Israeli air strike is going to kill at least as many people as Hamas can kill in twelve months. Does that mean Israel should be given a “license” of one air strike per year to use in the war? If IDF commanders want to take out a target where they expect five Hamas leaders or fighters to be killed, do they have to wait until five Israelis are killed first? If the Israelis endure rocket fire until one civilian is killed, do they get a “kill one Palestinian terrorist” coupon?
If strict proportionality isn’t necessary, what are the limits? If the Israelis kill two Palestinians for every Israeli that’s killed, is that okay? Or is doubling the number of casualties on each side too unfair to the Palestinians?
No army in the history of human civilization has ever hamstrung itself with these kind of restrictions in wartime, but let’s leave that aside for the moment and assume the IDF should be the first. Maybe Israeli commanders will be swayed by the legion of bloggers, Arab street radicals, and United Nations apparatchiks. What, precisely, should be the limits and rules of proportionate war? If critics expect to be taken seriously, they will need to advise.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:18am PT
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"You get the government you deserve."
This has got to be on the top of my "Stupidest Statements of 2008" List, if I had such a list. Certainly, it's toppled "Why Do You Hate America?"(serious version, not sarcastic/cynical version).
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:25am PT
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:47am PT
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Beautiful pic Survival.
Makes me think of the recent Everest Peace Project.
Israelis and Palestinians climbing together in the highest crucible of truth on the planet.
They became greta friends.
Sadly the Israelis, former IDF soldiers were black listed and censured when they went home for fraternizing with the enemy.
Go figure. Anyway thanx for keepin' it real!
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:48am PT
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Can't we all just get along.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:50am PT
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Apparently knot.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 11:58am PT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1UEjgXfYdw
Please take the time to watch this seven minute power point presentation.
Hard to refute the intentions of Israeli and Zionist towards the Arabs when you can read their exact words for yourself.
Given the fury created by the OP I particularly appreciate the comment by Albert Einstein (you know that Jewish American egg head relativist. He clearly equates the policies and methodologies of the Herut political party with the Nazis.
I didn't say it ALBERT EINSTEIN did. So go kick him in the balls if you can't handle the truth.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 31, 2008 - 12:19pm PT
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Meanwhile Hamas wanted to make sure the Christians weren't feeling left out..
Both Iran and its Hamas proxy in Gaza have been busy this Christmas week showing Christendom just what they think of it. But no one seems to have noticed.
On Tuesday, Hamas legislators marked the Christmas season by passing a Shari'a criminal code for the Palestinian Authority. Among other things, it legalizes crucifixion.
Hamas's endorsement of nailing enemies of Islam to crosses came at the same time it renewed its jihad. Here, too, Hamas wanted to make sure that Christians didn't feel neglected as its fighters launched missiles at Jewish day care centers and schools. So on Wednesday, Hamas lobbed a mortar shell at the Erez crossing point into Israel just as a group of Gazan Christians were standing on line waiting to travel to Bethlehem for Christmas.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 12:25pm PT
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And just to continue to "keep it Real"
Here is a 5 & 1/2 minute power point presentation of the pre 1947 Palestinians.
OOOh they look dangerous just like the blood thirsty terrorists some of you think they are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjEBQ_bE7uA&NR=1
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 31, 2008 - 12:48pm PT
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Yep Riley, it is very sobering. It is a vicious cycle.
The palistinians and the Israelis are shooting below the belt. No side is innocent in this. The palistinians got fed up with being treated like dirt so they got rid of their government who often capitulated to Israel and voted in Hamas. Now they are reaping the consequences of that.
Yet Israel is reaping the consequences of their behavior towards the Palistinians. Many of their acts were criminal. I point especially to the bulldozing of homes of innocent people.
If you act like a bully, then the other side is going to eventually try to bully back.
And then you end up in a vicious cycle.
I would like to see the Palistinians make a concerted effort to stop the rockets.
I would also like to see the Israelis start treating the Palistinians like their law commands. Love your neighbor as yourself. From Leviticus 19:18. They need to stop bulldozing innocent people's homes and they need to pay restitution for those homes that they have bulldozed. This would go a long way towards healing the rifts. They need to stop annexing land just because they have the power to do so. They need to stop bombing hospitals and schools.
And yes, before those who blindly support Israel chime in, the Palistinians need to stop the rocket launches and the human bombs.
The thing that people need to understand is that Palistine does not have a super strong central government. They have more of a tribal government, so most likely what needs to occur is that the UN send in troops to keep the peace. Then create a police force of both Palistinians and UN members and prosecute anyone who launches rockets.
Someone tried to say earlier that the blacks in America never resorted to terrorism and that eventually we started treating them better, yet this ignores the riots that occurred in my cities. Those riots eventually underscored the terrible ways we were mistreating the Blacks and the average American woke up and said we needed to stop this.
The average Israeli is going to have to wake up and see the terrible things that their government has been doing in the name of safety just as the average Palistinian is going to have to wake up and see that the rockets that Hamas fires are doing their cause no good.
What also will need to happen is that the average world citizen will have to wake up and tell both sides to knock it off or we will send in UN troops. Then we will have to stand behind our word and some of our boys will die to try and create peace in this region.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 12:56pm PT
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Very well said John. I concur completely.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 01:28pm PT
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Philo's PROPAGANDA? My propaganda Blue?
These are the words of Israel's founders and leaders NOT mine. Please explain how that is MY propaganda.
You ball-less twit!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Dec 31, 2008 - 01:43pm PT
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Specifically and exactly what info of mine do you finally feel is correct Jeff?
In light of the statements of the founders and leaders of Israel and the Zionist movement presented in Israeli History X it is impossible to believe that the "ENTIRE" Jewish population has agreed to share anything.
Prove otherwise! Refute the statements of leading Jews presented in that power point.
The hardcore radicals of the Zionist movement will NEVER allow a peace deal with those they intend to eliminate. They will ceaselessly dangle carrots only to yank them away and then blame the Palestinians for the failure.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 31, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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Philo, The same could be said of the hardcore leaders of Hamas.
The thing is, so much hurt has gone on for so long that people are willing to follow any radical leader. This is true of both the Israelis and the Palistinians. What will need to happen is that people like the jewish grandmother you spoke about will need to assert their influence.
How many jewish grandmothers and palistinian grandmothers would it take to lay down the law and say that we will not fight each other anymore?
Then add in Jewish wives and Palistinian wives and this could end.
...........
Blue, if you looked at the video that Philo linked, you will see that it is simply the words of jewish leaders. They are as violent words as any spoken by any Arab. Watch it and see for yourself.
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