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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Wow, did anybody listen to that streaming audio from Ritzheimer on the Fogbow link Jon Beck provided a couple pages back??
Wow. He certainly sounds..A.N.G.R.Y.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Good luck with that. Let me know how easy it is to wade through the morass of regulations, decrees, compliance, fees and payola required to big daddy .gov in order to start a business...
It's impossible! That's why you never see any businesses around ANYWHERE!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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The people of Ferguson lived - lived - every day under the thumb of an incredibly oppressive and corrupt local government which was essentially an organized crime operation whose sole purpose was to strip residents of cash and used intimidation and incarceration to do it.
Exactly.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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interesting article Fritz. But I thought I read on the internet that there were no Feds on scene. This thread in fact. I read it on the internet so it has to be true. And now another story contradicts that. so confused.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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When Ritzheimer was asking for snacks, he said they didn't need money, but that if people wanted to send it, they should link to this site:
http://www.rogueinfidel.com
It opens with the banner
Leading the fight against Islam Between that and the captain Moroni thing, it's a bit odd nobody is mentioning the religious component.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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there really is no need to throw the race card into this. it's apples and oranges. Urban protest Vs wackos in the middle of no where.
I totally disagree. Remember this?
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Black people, muslims, Mexicans and other south American peoples should all be totally pissed off as there is no liberty and justice for all.
An unarmed black man selling single cigarettes is choked to death in NY, a black kid with a toy gun is shot by police. I can go on and on.
Republicans running for office and currently in office (and some dem.s) actually discriminating against muslims.
Trump insulting Mexicans. The list goes on and on and on.
If you don't believe that the government response would be different if these guys were black or muslim or Mexican, then you are not seeing the current state of affairs in the USA today. During the previous Bundy debacle, these white terrorists pointed guns at federal agents who were trying to uphold the law and the government did nothing about it. Meanwhile in more situations than I can recount here, black people who were posing no threat to anyone were killed by law enforcement.
I challenge anyone to point out the justice and liberty in those comparisons. It makes me sick to think about.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I heard on NPR this morning that they have stated that if the county population does not support their being there, they will leave(and most in the county do not support their actions).
Of course, they will then probably hunker down and turn the debacle into a "learnable Mistake," and start planning on a more appropriate objective.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You know, there is other news in the world - it's raining in La-La Land!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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tradman posted there really is no need to throw the race card into this. it's apples and oranges. Urban protest Vs wackos in the middle of no where.
Perhaps you mean the issue is black and white? The feds are responding appropriately given the history of Waco and Ruby Ridge. The point is that they do not respond in this manner in other circumstances. The rules change.
The driveing force here is .
1. Govt is deathly afraid of mayrtering these guys and starting a real civil war.
Nobody thinks a civil war is at stake here but they are certainly learning their lessons from previous events.
2. these guys are patheticaly ineffective posers. If they were to actually fire those guns instead of just dressing up like comandos and takeing selfies the game would change dramaticly.
So you're suggesting that we ignore armed people who claim they are willing to die opposing America? How many poser gangster pictures/videos did TGT/Chief post trying to justify the brutal treatment of black Americans by police?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2016 - 08:34am PT
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One reason nothing has happened is the remoteness of the area. 7000 residents in 10000 square miles. The Sheriff has 7 officers, the Burns police have 3. Not even enough men to block the roads to Malheur (4 roads). Those facts and the holidays have delayed the response. The Feds are going to have to deal with this with manpower brought in from hundreds of miles a away. There is no reason to act swiftly and make mistakes. They can cut power, could even disable their cellphone accounts. Lack of attention will smoke them out quicker than tear gas. The noose will tighten, I predict that these idiots will leave non-chalantly like nothing happened and there will be an outcry about excessive government power when they get arrested.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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We're planning a YokelsOnly invasion of the Camp Pendleton Beach this month. Join us or don't, but if you don't, don't whine when they come for your National Parks Senior Passes.
Surfers are being punished for an "outside the ring" fire they started over 15 years ago, they have spent upwards to $1.50 in their legal defense. They have exhausted all their avenues in the federal court system. They have used up every bit of emotion and will they possessed. (From what I’m being told, the Surfers at one time were valiant fighters for what is right). Many cannot believe they have given up. But the system has broken them. The Surfers have exhausted prudence over many years. They are the epitome of what Americans will become if the system is allowed to ruin all of us.
-Amen ButtHole Surfer
The RogueInfidels have graciously allowed us to utilize their website to collect gas money to get over there to Pendleton.
http://www.rogueinfidel.com/
EDIT FOR CLARITY:
Free the Camp Pendleton Beach from the Obama Lackey Marines of FedGovt
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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zBrown you have thoroughly confused me.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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You know, there is other news in the world - it's raining in La-La Land!
Don't panic. It will end by 11:00AM.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Rogue Infidels have "Leading The Fight Against Islam" and "Preserve All Freedoms" on the same page.
That's f*#king priceless......
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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1. yes i do believe that the feds are afraid of giveing these ass clowns an excuse to be become mayrters and fuel the flames of a white conservative vs liberal armed conflict. the movement is totally fringe at this time and they would like to keep it that way. Giveing them annother waco or ruby ridge is not in their or our bests intrests. This is not white privledge as much as it is stratedgy.
2. these guys are pathetic posers/losers makeing their stand in the middle of nowhere. Pull the same sh#t in an urban area, burn a few cop cars and loot a few drugstores and you would most certainly get your equal rights heavy handed response.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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So here is what I currently think about this issue. Of course what I think might change as more information comes in. Being willing to change your mind is important in objective analysis and I try to be objective but it is difficult for humans to be objective. I do understand that the truth is extremely complex and hard to know. I also know that pretty much nobody here is really interested my opinion but I feel like spouting off too. I really don’t care if you agree or disagree but if you have reliable information (data) that I haven’t considered, I would like to see it.
I grew up in the rural west. I've seen a lot of it up close. Dad (stepfather) was a field man for the USGS topographic division and worked in the seven western states. He would be assigned to some small town in the middle of nowhere to fill in the map info that they couldn't get from aerial photos. When he finished in one area, we would move on to the next. We usually moved twice a year - north in the summer and south in the winter. Sometimes we moved as many as 4 times a year. I went to 26 different grade schools as small as eight grades in two rooms with 25 kids. I have worked on farms and cattle ranches. Some of the best people I have ever met live in these little towns. I know honest, hardworking men and women who will melt your heart in these towns. I am a fourth generation northern Idahonian and born into a large family of farmers, loggers and blue collar workers. I was born in Bonners Ferry because Moyie Springs is too small to have a doctor. Of my 26 maternal first cousins only three earned a university degree. (My brother and I have MS degrees and one cousin has a PhD) I think I know a little bit about rural western America.
I have lived in Burns and have spent time in the Steens Mountains and the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. Burns was a logging and sawmill town but that industry has died. My brother and I recall Burns as the least friendly town we ever lived in. It is the only town that I can think of that I don't recall a single friendly kid. A town I recall as being full of unhappy people. The area does have a history of land grabbing cattle barons. The most famous was Peter French who was shot dead over a fence disagreement – the current conflict is really about fences. The man who shot French was found not guilty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_French
The population in the USA is rapidly urbanizing as money and jobs leave the farm. Blue collar jobs have also nearly vanished from the economy. There are still a lot of high paying jobs but they are in places like Palo Alto and require specialized and advanced university degrees. These are jobs that often cannot be filled due to a lack of qualified people. I know of a company that pays summer student interns $2000 a week with lodging, meals and transportation but has trouble finding qualified people. The rural middle class feels disenfranchised and is pissed off. Rather than moving to the city and getting an education relevant to the current economy, some of them are taking up guns and what amounts to terrorism.
The disenfranchised rural population and the unemployed blue collar population are attracted to Trump and the republicans in general because they are hearing what they want to hear which is not necessarily reality. These people have lost touch with the modern world or perhaps the modern world has lost touch with them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/12/the-four-basic-reasons-that-explain-why-donald-trump-actually-is-so-popular/
The Hammonds have threatened and terrorized federal officials and their families which, to me, is a crime. They don't like the law but the founding fathers knew that laws sometimes need to change and there are ways provided to do so that don't require guns and armed conflict. The problem is that the change requires a sympathetic majority and the majority is urban and swinging left. It is interesting that only one of the largest cities in the US has a republican mayor (San Diego oddly). Even Texas elects Democratic mayors.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/kevin-faulconer-mayor/422316/
The Hammonds and the Bundys will draw their supporters but their supporters will be a small minority. The vast majority probably isn’t even interested in this but when they start shooting; I suspect the uprising will be crushed. It seems like these people really, really want the shooting to start. It seems like they want to be martyred. Perhaps they expect 12 virgins.
This 1995 article gives some background on the Hammond conflict. It’s long but read it.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/05/showdown-in-the-malheur-marshes-the-origins-of-the-armed-occupation-in-burns-oregon/
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Thanks for all the resources, Banquo.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2016 - 09:21am PT
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Great post Banqou, thanks. It is interesting to note that NPR interviewed Les Zaitz, a cattleman/journalist from the Burns area and he specifically said that although they are very conservative in that area, they also reject Trump, I was surprised.
Quote It is interesting that only one of the largest cities in the US has a republican mayor (San Diego oddly)Here
Funny thing is that the SD mayor accused his opponents of playing dirty politics when they called him out as a Republican. The right would call him a RINO, he is pro-choice and always supported gay marriage. He got elected for his conservative position on the public pension debacle that has SD in a 2 billion dollar hole. San Diego was called Enron by the Sea
I think San Diego is majority Democrat, but people do not always vote the party line in local elections.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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1. yes i do believe that the feds are afraid of giveing these ass clowns an excuse to be become mayrters and fuel the flames of a white conservative vs liberal armed conflict. the movement is totally fringe at this time and they would like to keep it that way. Giveing them annother waco or ruby ridge is not in their or our bests intrests. This is not white privledge as much as it is stratedgy.
I understand what you are saying. However, the fact remains, that in the earlier Bundy clash in Nevada, some militia were pointing guns at federal agents who were acting in accordance with the law and nothing was done.
Meanwhile, multiple unarmed and unthreatening black people in urban areas are getting shot. If these guys were black or muslim or Syrian descent or Mexican descent you can bet your ass that the response would not be the same.
You said it yourself, race and politics are steering the American department of justice without regards to the laws of the land and that makes me sick.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Wait, Ya'll Queda only get 12 virgins? They sure f*#ked up in picking their religion.
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