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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Keep pounding on them Israel.
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Avishai
Mountain climber
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Actually, every time I call Israel, the automated message there is in German. . . .
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Oh where to start.....
How about with Granite climber.
"All of California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Texas, New Mexico and parts of Colorado, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and Kansas were all STOLEN from Mexico".
Actually the land was taken from the indigenous Americans, you know injuns.
But if Mexicans started shooting thousands of rockets over the border at American cities such as San Diego, Tucson, Yuma and El Paso, you can bet that America would take much stronger action then what we're seeing Israel take in Gaza".
While there is a correlation between Americas "Manifest Destiny" and Zionist expansion the two situations are not at all the same.
The difference is the Mexicans have a free country to live in, and the indians live in autonomous regions free to travel and express them selves.
What would be the pretext for them to attack us? Those of you who want to correlate these other situations to Gaza are either ignorant of history or blind to the present. You are pawns of a brilliant PR campaign.
Next...
Corniss Chopper.
"..terrorism seems to be the national sport of the Muslim".
For you to say that indicates absolutely NO understanding of Islam. And no understanding about the conditions under this illegal occupation. Or of an occupied peoples legal right to resist.
"Looking at it that way my anxiety is reduced
to zero when seeing the news. Its just another sports
commentary on winners and losers".
Glad you have no anxiety about War Crimes, Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide.
How many family members and friends have you lost in this, apparently to you, righteous revenge of Israels? Want to know the death toll for my wife?
"40-love Serve.......wap.......Blam!!!
Your serve Muslim"...
How about I say Israel didn't learn from their embarrassingly bloodied nose in Lebannon so bring it on. More dead Jews!
Onward...
WoodySt.
"Keep pounding on them Israel'.
This would be tantamount to me saying WOO HOO more dead Jews everytime a rocket kills one or a suicide bomber kills several. But that would be inhumane of me right? Because you all know all Jews are innocent victims of terrorism and perpetually under the threat of extermination. And conversely you all know that every Arab is a blood thirsty murderer bent on the destruction of Israel. That all Arabs want all non Muslims to convert or be killed. That they are comming to get you. That the Palestinians have no right to a home land. And that every single Palestinian child is taught from birth how to kill Jews with nothing more than their teeth. Which is about all you will allow them to have. Which is why you see teenagers throwing stones at tanks. We found that Noble and Honorable when the Slovaks were battling against the Soviet Union's invasion. We even found it poignant when the Chinese protester stood in front of the Chinese tank column.
But not the hopeless Palestinians. They are afforded no such humanity. You have been taught only one story line here, filled with myth, disinformation and out right bald faced lies. I am beginning to see why you same folks think Public Education in America has failed.
The truth is if they had a loaf of bread they wouldn't throw at a tank! But when you endeavor to starve a people into submission you get what you deserve!
So here goes....
GO HAMAS GO! KILL MORE JEWS! KILL THEM ALL! DRIVE THEM INTO THE SEA. EXTERMINATE THEM ALL! MORE AND BETTER ROCKETS! MORE SUICIDE BOMBERS!
KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL. KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL,!!!!!!!!
Now doesn't that sound almost as absurd as your all's cheering the converse?
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UncleDoug
climber
No. Lake Tahoe, CA
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philo,
Challenge anyone who keeps cheering for more Palestinian deaths to say the things they type here directly to your relatives.
And anyone who cheers for Israeli deaths should have to say that directly to someone who has family directly affected by this.
Then we'd see where people really stand!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Karl,
The problem with 242 is that it also calls for secure borders for Israel. The borders didn't seem too secure in 1967 or 1974, so Israel expanded them a bit, the current fence line seems about right and the supremes have made reasonable adjustments.
Jody's evil twin
No Jeff the problem with UN resolution 242 as well as with scores of other UN sanctions is that Israel refuses to comply. The wars of 67 and 74 were we started "preemptively" by the Israelis not the Arabs. These wars were not defensive but offensive. They were a land grab pure and simple.
And you keep referring to it as a "fence" which sounds so quaint and benign.
But that "fence" dwarfs the Berlin Wall, making that attrocity seem like a neighborly place to gossip.
That is NO FENCE. It is a prison wall! And it isn't placed with the intent of security for Israel but rather a deliberate annexation of Palestinian land. It is erected to disenfranchise the Palestinians further and further. Look at the actual and intended line of the "FENCE". The "fence" that our tax dollars are paying for to the tune of three million dollars a mile. The only logic to the line of that "fence" is to imprison the Palestinians in an un-viable Bantustan existence with absolutely NO HOPE of a State of their own.
It is not a "fence" Jeff it is a CRIME!
Please oh wise and powerful Jeffe explain to us why prior to the founding of the State of Israel that Jews and Arabs and Christian and Aramaians all coexisted on this land as they do today in cities all over the world and right here in America?
Go reread the words of your founders and leaders for a clue.
Lastly Jeff if you lost family or friends in a Gazan rocket attack I wouldn't gloat and call for more.
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UncleDoug
climber
No. Lake Tahoe, CA
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And Jeff, there are countless times were Jewish Rabbis call for the wanton killing of Muslims.
Your point is a non starter.
Both sides are f*#ked up.
It's just that you can not see the proverbial forrest through the trees.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Religious leaders like the Rabbis who continuously preach hate and destruction of the Arabs? Please don't insult me by trying to deny that many religious leaders on all sides
are radical hate mongering instigators.
Every heard of Rabbi Firestone Jeff? She is extremely active in the PEACE movement. Which has garnered her extreme criticism and death threats from JEWS!
She is one of my wifes best friends. Imagine that a Jewish Rabbi and a Christian Palestinians as friends working towards PEACE together. Oh GOD what is the world coming to. PEACE I hope!
Anyway she would gladly discuss and debate Hebrew theology, Jewish history and the humanitarian crises of the illegal occupation with you. Though I very much doubt you have the ammo for a serious debate on the real issues. You are only capable of perpetuating the disinformation of your beloved AIPAC.
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UncleDoug
climber
No. Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jeff,
You sound like the hate monger you always have been.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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"I can see both sides of this conflict. Its quite simple":
NO you can't see both sides. And NO it is not quite simple.
"Any American who actively supports either side has traded patriotism for something else entirely. YOU are going to drag us down".
What is more American than standing up for PEACE and JUSTICE?
"So stop it - all of you. Unless you're willing to travel to the mid East and take up arms yourselves, STFU about Israel and Palestine and let them have it out. Its not our affair".
DMT
Hey DingDong I guess you missed the part where I explained that my wife recently returned from nearly a month in Palestine and Israel. But you wouldn't understand because she didn't take up arms. Rather she took up ears and listened compassionately to all sides. Her American relatives have made scores of trips there with Christian Peace teams. She has lost at least a dozen family and friends in this latest round of bloodshed.
So you see IT IS OUR AFFAIR! Who else among the STers has anywhere as much at stake in this as MY FAMILY?
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UncleDoug
climber
No. Lake Tahoe, CA
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"What is more American than standing up for PEACE and JUSTICE? "
You are totally right philo.
That is why any actors in the conflict that are helping to perpetuate the situ need to be taken to task. Regardless of their political/religious affiliation.
That is why the US can not bee seen as an impartial arbitrator in the conflict. Too long towing the Israeli line.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Then get out and stay out like you want the US to do. It's not your concern so STFU!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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So DaftRat sounds like you are back to your rabid war mongering ways. Which Middle East cities are you suggesting be nuked?
How about Tel Aviv as a good start?
And Dingus that is the smatest most correct thing you have yet said.
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UncleDoug
climber
No. Lake Tahoe, CA
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I say Israel nukes Gaza.....
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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No I was wrong Dingus that last post was the smartest thing you have offered on this thread. Perhaps I misjudged you earlier.
But if you feel that strongly perhaps you should lobby your government to divest from Israel and put real humanitarian conditions on the BILLIONS of our dollars we give them. Tell your Congressmen to show AIPAC the door. Then you can feel you are doing something you believe in.
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WBraun
climber
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Tell your Congressmen to show AIPAC the door. Then you can feel you are doing something you believe in.
Won't do one thing to fix the problem.
The problem starts with every individual.
No one knows who they really are and why they're here.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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And DaftRat Really, you are going to quote Condi "skank" Rice?
You are going to quote someone from the most discredited and corrupt administration in American History. What a tool!
Why don't you mention that Jordanian police clashed with pro Palestinian protestors who were marching towards the Israeli embassy. Or would that "clash" with your preposterous "clash of civilizations" theory.
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WBraun
climber
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I also believe you are starting to lose it Philo.
Take a break, recoup your senses, you're starting to unravel.
We do understand the gist of your pain ....
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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"All of California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Texas, New Mexico and parts of Colorado, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and Kansas were all STOLEN from Mexico".
Actually the land was taken from the indigenous Americans, you know injuns.
But if Mexicans started shooting thousands of rockets over the border at American cities such as San Diego, Tucson, Yuma and El Paso, you can bet that America would take much stronger action then what we're seeing Israel take in Gaza".
While there is a correlation between Americas "Manifest Destiny" and Zionist expansion the two situations are not at all the same.
The difference is the Mexicans have a free country to live in, and the indians live in autonomous regions free to travel and express them selves.
What would be the pretext for them to attack us? Those of you who want to correlate these other situations to Gaza are either ignorant of history or blind to the present. You are pawns of a brilliant PR campaign.
Philo, much of the land was taken from Native Americans (I won't call them "injuns" like you did) but there were also areas which had been settled by Mexicans for generations. Similarly, much of the land which is now Israel was occupied not by "Palestinians" but by Bedouins.
The Mexicans might attack us if they do not accept the borders imposed by us, just like Hamas is attacking Israel because they do not accept the borders imposed by Israel.
The Israels have withdrawn from Gaza some time ago and it has been an autonomous region governed by Hamas.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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You are right Werner I am stressed to extremes and my wife is despondent.
I very much appreciate your understanding.
But try to put your self in my EBs for just a moment.
Can I really be expected to remain silent when some STers are chanting and rooting for the slaughter of innocence and the death of Justice?
If you go to the Holocaust museum they make a big point about accusing those who would not speak out. Those who stayed in silence.
I will not be one who later is accused of staying silent in the face of genocide.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Philo: "so bring it on. More dead Jews!"
This has been the attitude of Hamas. Maybe if they had a different attitude more of them would be alive today. They want to wipe out all Jews and they are the ones dying.
Philo, I hope your wife's relatives come out of this OK. I know you hate the Israelis but the fact your wife's relatives are still alive is a testament to the restraint of the Israelis. If the Israelis were as bloodthirsty and fanatical as Hamas, there would not be a single Palestinian left alive in Gaza or the West Bank. They would all be ethnically cleansed.
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