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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 11, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
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Damn Chief. Gotta say, after reading way too many of your comments, you insist others consider your views but you won't consider others' views. Pretty rigid there Chief, and maybe a sign. No one is always right. Open your eyes a bit and understand that you don't know it all; other viewpoints might be valid and, in this case, are.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:05pm PT
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other viewpoints might be valid and, in this case, are.
Says who.. YOU and your, supposed "liberated" opinion??
Sorry, but your post must be directed towards those others here that "insist" I and others follow along with, "their views". Because unlike them, I nor "WE" NEVER insisted on anyone ever considering my/our views.
I just insist on them leaving me and the tens of millions just like me, alone, and respect our views for us.
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:12pm PT
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You want to be left alone then try shutting your pie hole for a change.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:19pm PT
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Pretty weird man. You insist that others respect you but you won't respect others? Can't have it both ways.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
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Whatever. You're nuts.
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Braunini
Big Wall climber
cupertino
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
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try shutting your pie hole for a change.
LOL
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
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I think I discovered one of the problems here.
Cops Believe North Carolina Inmate Hid 10-Inch Revolver In His Rectum. Luckily, It Was Unloaded.
Maybe becoming an epidemic amongst folks not wanting their gun possession recognized.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/gun-hidden-in-butt-765912
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 11, 2015 - 05:53pm PT
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Okay Chief, here's a true story. I was in college when the draft lottery was started. I drew a pretty bad number, 69 or something. I was called up in December of 1972 or '73 - I can't really remember and in December of that year, reported to the Mobile. Alabama induction center to be drafted to fight in Vietnam. I was not a happy camper, as the war was sh#t. But I showed up.
My doctor in Huntsville Alabama offered to give me drugs to raise my blood pressure but I didn't understand what he was offering, as I was a stupid kid. I went down to the induction center and went through the mental and physical test. They told me I scored the highest on the IQ test they had ever seen. We were sent to barracks to spend the night and would be sworn in the next day. There were LOTS of redneck boys from the south thinking they were in for some great adventure; I couldn't sleep because they were having so much 'fun' being away from home.
I got up and walked around the base and at about 1:00 am found a stream had eroded under the fence, making an exit from the base. I crawled under the fence, leaving the base, and stood outside. I had two choices, leave for Canada or stay. Going to Canada would mean I wouldn't see my family for years. There was a weird experience where I felt totally at peace and complete. I decided to stay.
I went back into the base and back into the barracks and tried to sleep. The next morning we were rounded up and stood in groups. They called a group into a room and then swore an oath to serve in the Army. I was sitting there, waiting for my name to be called when there was an announcement - "Stephen Hovanes (yes, that's my name; I'm a wine maker) report to Major Henderson in room 211" I went upstairs into the room and there was the Major sitting at the desk.
"Son" he said, "do you want to be in the Army?" WTF? If I said no would they persecute me and f*#k with me for two years? If I said yes, what would happen? I said "No sir, I don't want to be in the Army". "Son, we're sending you home."
WTF? So I asked why he was sending me home. I thought that maybe, just maybe, everyone gets an honest choice at the final moment, but that wasn't what it was. "Son" he said, "we over called the draft for December, you have been eligible this year, so you are no longer eligible for the draft. Do you want to wait for a bus or leave now?"
I left. My point is that there are many nuances to things and you are making things black or white. I was ready to do what I had to, but glad I didn't have to.
Yes, you can own guns, but isn't there a limit, a responsibility to understand that others maybe don't want an armed camp in America?
Life isn't absolutes, so maybe look at other view points.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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I have nothing of import or brilliance to add to this stellar conversation other than a perverse need to be preserved by a Google Bot in case this important topic becomes part of the new Digital World History.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:28pm PT
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others maybe don't want an armed camp in America?
Life isn't absolutes, so maybe look at other view points.
Winemaker, you seem intelligent and thoughtful so far.
What "other points" do you have in mind? For example, is one of those the idea that others "don't want an armed camp in America?" That's what I take from what you're saying, and maybe I'm misreading.
One of the points worth considering is that on the subject of an "armed camp," our constitution doesn't make that a matter of preference. There are MANY things that can be legislated to reflect the preferences of the majority, but the right to have and BEAR arms is not one of them. This IS a pretty "black and white" issue, it seems to me.
So, perhaps I don't understand what you are including by implication in the phrase "armed camp."
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
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"Well regulated militia" pops to mind.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
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Winemaker
I got drafted the same time you did ... lol.
I hitch hiked from Yosemite to Berserkly Induction center.
Went thru the whole deal and got a 1Y.
They said I can't hear worth the sh!t and go home.
I said I could work artillery.
They laughed and said goodbye ......
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philo
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
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Armed camp as in your proposal for American schools Madbolt.
Why don't we eliminate schools altogether and just send kids straight to prison camps?
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
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So, perhaps I don't understand what you are including by implication in the phrase "armed camp."
Good Point MB1.
Yes, you can own guns, but isn't there a limit, a responsibility to understand that others maybe don't want an armed camp in America?
FYI, This nation has been "armed" for well over 275 years. And the people have voted to keep it that way throughout that period. This is a country of the people and their vote. Thus the majority rule.
The people set the limit you refer to. Not the POTUS for political purposes. Until the people vote to change the 2nd Amendment, NOT the POTUS via a stroke of his pen, then it should be done.
And until the day comes that the "others" you refer to have the votes to do so, it will remain as such.
That is how this country rolls and has done so since it's inception. That is what makes this nation different than all the rest on this planet.
Apparently you "others" here do not get that very vital part.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 11, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
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"Well regulated militia" pops to mind.
Do you understand what the phrase means?
Do you understand that it occupies the antecedent position in a conditional, which means that even if it were false, it has no effect on the consequent of that conditional, namely the part that says "shall not be infringed?"
Do you understand that that amendment does not GRANT a right but merely references a pre-existing right that government can neither grant nor take away?
Let's start with those clarification questions.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
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"Well regulated militia"
With over 1500 Fed, State and Local Laws and Regulations, and over 330 MILLION legally owned and registered "guns" in this nation, I firmly believe that the "militia" is pretty "well regulated".
Again, if you Winemaker and the "others" here do not like it, then start changing the way things work in your "local" "camps" by getting the changes in the regulations and laws on the local ballot and then vote to do so.
Take action that is real. Do not come onto some climbing social site and talk/whine tons of shet such as individuals as LOcker and Fuitz who certainly own and "love" their guns more than I do.... do!
EDIT:
WINEMAKER,
How do you propose cleaning up all the multitude (unknown millions) of illegal guns that are all over this nation?
Not one of you "others" has yet to present a viable solution for that critical component of this issue.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 11, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
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"Well regulated" means exactly and precisely "well trained."
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Oct 11, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
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CRANKALOONSTAR:
How do you propose cleaning up all the multitude (unknown millions) of illegal guns that are all over this nation?
Not one of you "others" has yet to present a viable solution for that critical component of this issue.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Oct 11, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
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Take a pill, El Jefe. I'm not debating you on account of your condition.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 11, 2015 - 07:37pm PT
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Not one of you "others" has yet to present a viable solution for that critical component of this issue.
The chief makes a quite simple error here. His statement assumes that he is THE authority on what will work and what will not work. Until HE is satisfied HE is content with the continuing slaughter. The reality is answers to complex social problems do not come in a simple blinding flash. They evolve as ancilliary circumstances also adapt.
The question is, what is the approach that seems to have the most promise.
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