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crankster
Trad climber
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Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson want you to elect them to the highest office in the land primarily on the basis that they have never held elective office. What??? Candidates with no experience in the business they want to lead???
These two should try the city council first and come back later. Much later. Political skills are kind of important to the job they seek.
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dirtbag
climber
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At least Carson seems to be an excellent surgeon. Hey, if you can excel at one important thing, why not stick to that?
And at least Fiorina seems to be excellent at tanking companies. Hey, if you can excel at one important thing, why not stick to that?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I predict a TGT post sometime today to the effect of 'progs have a problem with an inexperienced black man in the WH? Racists!'....or some such.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel or a tr
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Just one trip to Burlington Vermont would tell you a lot about Democratic Socialism and Bernie Sanders.
A great city .
You may say what you like ,the man tells it like it is,plain and simple.
I know he will not make it out of the democratic primary election,but,it would be great to see him debate a republican.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Just one trip to Naples, Italy would tell you a lot about Democratic Socialism too.
I have a knee jerk reaction to doctors based on their usually ill-founded
belief that their medical knowledge carries over into all other fields.
Carson does seem a bit more humble and grounded though.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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What does that have to do with Vermont ,Reilly?
I posture,you monger.
BTW,never been to Italy,might have something to do with wealth distribution,aye?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I dunno, Wilbeer, growing up in Chicago it seemed there was no shortage of
Napolitani so I figured that if they could afford to come here then I could
afford to go there. Italy is pretty cheap to visit, as long as you don't
order the white truffles. Give it try!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mad.... I for one would like tom thank you for taking the time to explain to some here what is REALLY going on....
Some people like to change the meaning of common words, thanks for calling them out on BS.
We are going to have a really great debate on who should be the Republican running for prez over the next year, it will be entertaining.
I for one can't wait for Hillary to answer questions without speaking in generalities... or platitudes. Most of the Repubs do the same.... and I hate that also.
Carry on, this is the best politico thread on the TACO in ages, I hope the MODs don't do something stupid and can it, just because some can't keep the discussion civil.
Peace to you my brothers and sisters.
EDIT: for clarity
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
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I have a knee jerk reaction to doctors based on their usually ill-founded
belief that their medical knowledge carries over into all other fields.
Let's just call it "so-called" medical knowledge.
damned gud 'western medicine' docs.
One guy I went to high school with is an oncologist and could be considered damned gud, though he would probably prefer just gud.
My experience otherwise apparently is not as wide ranging as yours, but has been with one exception, uniformly bad. No details, just my experience with my own maladies and taking care of my aging mother.
Is it due to the system? Nother story.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Fair enough, zMan, they do lack in the finer points of eye of newt and
boiled henbane potions, but all the regular docs I know, and I know a lot,
are damned gud 'western medicine' docs.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 10, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
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His mother won't!
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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May 10, 2015 - 09:33pm PT
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Hillary is acting like she can win on demographics alone. Latinos, blacks, gays, women, and so called white intellectuals against white males.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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May 11, 2015 - 07:18am PT
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She probably can...
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crankster
Trad climber
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May 11, 2015 - 07:31am PT
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Eric, how exactly is Hillary acting like that? What specifically has she said or done to make you think she is writing off white men?
Would you prefer the alternative?
ByBRENDAN JAMES May 11, 2015
Likely presidential candidate and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) said in an interview set to air Monday that he would have invaded Iraq in 2003, like his brother did, if he were President back then.
"Knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion?" Fox News host Megyn Kelly asked Bush in a sit-down interview.
"I would have," Bush said.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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May 11, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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1) There is a VAST difference between what you are calling "socialism" at the state and local levels and "socialism" at the federal level. If my HOA "socializes" roof repairs, and I don't like the distribution, I can easily leave and buy a condo elsewhere. I can quite easily change cities or even states, But, as Madison said, no man should be forced to abandon the nation of his birth. The feds were not supposed to have anything to do with redistribution of wealth, because that sort of thing at the national level is effectively inescapable!
2) Most of your examples are not in the slightest sense "socialism". When I pay taxes that go to support a national military, the theory is that I am purchasing my OWN defense; I am personally getting the very "product" I'm paying for. The government is not taking my money, giving me personally NO benefit for it, and then simply giving that money to somebody else.
3) The military as a specific example is a terrible one, as that is actually something the feds are SUPPOSED to provide according to the constitution. So, as a fundamental part of me being part of this this NATION, I am constitutionally obligated to contribute toward the common defense of this nation. But I enjoy the VERY benefits I am paying for. By contrast, I am not obligated to ensure that the feds provide good roads or anything else like that. The constitution provided for a VERY FEW powers and responsibilities at the FEDERAL level, and EVERYTHING beyond those specified powers/responsibilities was to be retained by the states and people.
4) You actually are clueless enough to include Social Security and Medicare in the mix. Yes, those are examples of national socialism indeed! But they are also HIGHLY contentious, which means that by including them you are effectively arguing: "SINCE the introduction of those forms of socialism, we have been socialistic; so this country is socialistic." But the VERY POINT under contention is that we never should have gone down that path in the first place! Wilson and then FDR turned the nation toward socialism, and now it INCREASINGLY is. For you to say that "it's not going to lead to communism" is ridiculous! How FAR down the road of socialism do you have to go before it has effectively become communism? Are you psychic? We are MUCH further down the path than we were early in my lifetime. And Obamacare is a BIG additional step down the path. Ridiculous!
5) Education? At the federal level? Show me in the constitution, even in the interstate commerce clause (writ even larger than it has been so far), where the federal government has ANY right or power to be in the business of education in the slightest!
You conflate small-scale, state and local "socialism," that really isn't, with national-scale socialism that really is! The small-scale examples are not fundamentally coercive as federal socialism is.
And most of your examples of "socialism" really are not. When I contribute to the military, the fire department, roads, local education, etc., I am purchasing a direct benefit to myself. I enjoy the VERY thing I collectively purchase.
Socialism, by contrast, is fundamentally wealth-redistribution. I do NOT enjoy the benefit of the very thing I purchased. Social Security is a perfect example. Pyramid scheme it IS, and I will NEVER see the money OUT of it that I was FORCED to put into it. And that's talking static dollars. In fact, the situation is even worse than that. I will get a few wildly devalued dollars back out compared to the MANY higher-valued dollars I put in.
Had I done nothing but kept MY OWN money and put it in the lowest-interest bearing bank account available at any given moment, I would today be far, far, FAR ahead of where I will be by drawing Social Security benefits. And ALL of that assumes that it will even be there AT ALL when I go to tap into it. So, in NO sense have I been purchasing a benefit TO MYSELF by being FORCED to contribute to this SCAM my whole life. Social Security is NOTHING but my life of contributions being parted out to OTHERS, leaving me with FAR less (meaning NO benefit to me) than I contributed. It is wealth-redistribution in one of its cruelest forms!
And Social Security is a classic example of yet another principle: the principle of escape. If a state did some crap like Romneycare, I can MOVE and escape it rather than contribute to the stupidity.
You can easily escape your HOA, your city, and even your state. You cannot escape the feds. And that's the most basic reason why using local examples cannot in principle justify federal socialism.
You don't seem to understand what socialism even IS, and your conflation of small-scale with federal socialism demonstrates that you don't understand even the basic principles of why the powers of the federal government were SO constrained and limited in the constitution.
When Roberts asked, "If the government can do this, then what can government NOT do?" he was asking THE crucial question! And his "answer" via his vote will live in infamy, as he effectively stated: "The federal government can do ANYTHING." And that "answer" turns the constitution ON ITS HEAD!!!
100% good read.. thanks Mad
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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May 11, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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Hillary, so far has said very little. She has spoken on immigration and her campaign announcement video has images of various minorities. Not suggesting that she is dissing white males, just that this has become the domain of republicans.
This campaign appears to exist on two levels. The surface level is one of demographics. The second, deeper level is about war, oil, civil liberties and global warming. This gets less airing and here the two parties are much closer
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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May 11, 2015 - 09:03am PT
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Mad's rant is the typical libertarian line of crap about how bad socialism is, and it's all based on Personal Greed.
The Government Is not supposed to be a greedy, suffering inducing torture shop.
It's supposed to work for everybody, and protect the most vulnerable
Why should we make our citizens suffer needlessly, what happened to Christian Compassion, millions rely on the Government, like it not, most of the get a good paycheck from hard work.
Had I done nothing but kept MY OWN money and put it in the lowest-interest bearing bank account available at any given moment, I would today be far, far, FAR ahead of where I will be by drawing Social Security benefits. And ALL of that assumes that it will even be there AT ALL when I go to tap into it. So, in NO sense have I been purchasing a benefit TO MYSELF by being FORCED to contribute to this SCAM my whole life. Social Security is NOTHING but my life of contributions being parted out to OTHERS, leaving me with FAR less (meaning NO benefit to me) than I contributed. It is wealth-redistribution in one of its cruelest forms!
This rant just kills me, would you have put that money in an investment to use when you were 65????
maybe, but 10s of millions don't, and there would be widespread elderly poverty for no damn other reason except PURE GREED, "I lost money because of SS, it was MY MONEY!!!"
You don't care about other people, too bad for you, it just shows you what you believe in, an attitude of let them die, they didn't save money like I did, I'm so much better, I deserve to live, they deserve nothing. And you want the Government to impose your selfishness on the people.
I want my government to Care.
And I want my tax dollars to help other people, not provide welfare for Corporations and rich greedy folks, which is the Libertarian way.
Libertarianism = child like selfishness
It has been a disastrous failure every time it's imposed, yet greed will always work it back into the mainstream, since greed is such prevalent characteristic of the right wing mind
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