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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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The U.S. Marshals should be there, not a county sheriff.
The safe passage the sherrif was offering was safety from the Feds. It's intentional.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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I'm so confused why that awesome o-dub is at the top of that really shitty trip report.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Here's a big part of the problem, it comes from the comments section of the first link:
As far being correct, they are correct in that the Federal government has no right controlling lands of counties and states, the Federal lands that they can push their statutory rules are limited to Federal possessions only. Harbors, arsenals, Washington DC, and military bases for the most part. The BLM and other Fed agencies have no control over a Common Law man, problem is that hardly anyone knows how to be a CL man and as a result they either create conflict, or they consent to the jurisdiction of these Fed agencies volunterially. So these Patriots either wind up dead or infront of a Government Court getting the gears.
This is so wrong it's hard to fathom. It's a bunch of that sovereign citizen claptrap.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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!WARNING! Spew alert.
Blame Bush. He got the patriot act passed. Oh the irony!
The "Patriot Act" is in fact frequently un-patriotic.
The so-called "Patriot Act" has a great deal of overreach. As we all now know. From monitoring phone conversations without reasonable cause, a secret court (about as anti-American as you get), to holding people in detention for weeks or months without bringing charges. Even serious international relations problems (think Gitmo which remains a terrorist recruiting tool).
The mandatory term of 5 years for arson on Federal property was part of it. I'd bet few legislators read the fine print. Or perhaps they were thinking only Muslim terrorists would commit arson on Fed property. I read a few sections in detail. Enough to know it was government overreach and a very flawed set of laws. Quite a bit of it is likely unconstitutional. Just ask the many US Citizens of foreign birth or appearance who've spent time in "indeterminate detention" since.
So the irony is clear. The flag waving, Muslim fearing, Law 'n Order (largely white supremacist or neo-Nazi) "militias" are pissed off at a law that I'm sure many of them supported in their anti-Muslim hysteria.
One will notice that the Hammonds apparently went back to prison willingly. They might have tried fleeing to Malheur. They have learned something. The Constitution has meaning, laws have sometimes unexpected results and arson is a Very Bad Idea even on the open range of the Big Bad Gummint.
Or perhaps they didn't want to freeze their arses off for a few weeks just to end up back in prison anyway. The Hammonds may in fact be the only ones who understand the Constitution, the Rule of Law and the duty to obey the law or take the consequences. Whether one likes the law or not.
Edit:
...a secret court (about as anti-American as you get), to holding people in detention for weeks or months without bringing charges. Does anybody remember the Stazi and KGB? What short memories most Americans have.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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I saw a funny reference to this group:
VANILLA ISIS
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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I have said it before on this thread, but I will say it again. 5 years in prison for burning off a small amount of scrubland is crazy. Ranchers around here burn their fields periodically. Usually they get together with their neighbors, call the fire department to make sure no high winds or wildfire conditions exist, and burn it. Grasslands need it. We have a problem with Eastern Red Cedar taking over grasslands. Before whitey showed up, the prairies regularly burned, and those things go up like a gas can.
It is those damn mandatory minimum sentences. Even the judge who sentenced them noted that. Well, that is what you get when congress passes a law that forces a judge to forego any judgement and apply mandatory sentences. That is why the Hammonds got 5 years for doing what ranchers around here do on a regular basis.
I refer you to the 1984 Sentencing Reform Act. It should be revoked, or Obama ought to let the Hammonds go with time served, along with thousands of others serving long sentences for minor, non-violent crime. That 1984 act seriously messed up federal sentencing guidelines.
And I have no respect at all for the nutjobs like the Bundy's. Those guys have gotten away with all sorts of stuff. Just look at Cliven Bundy's wiki page. It explains the whole shebang:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
Their entire Sovereign Citizen Movement is crazy hogwash. According to Bundy, he owns a big chunk of SW Nevada, because he grazed cattle on it.
The cattle grazing fees are dirt cheap. If you have a grazing allotment, there is no reason to own much of a ranch of your own. It is cheaper to have the allotment than to actually own land and pay property taxes.
Who gets those grazing rights has also always puzzled me. It seems to go to the same family decade after decade.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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You can bet these guys were all in favor of mandatory sentencing when it applied to urban pot smokers.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Base 104
Irresponsible fire set after dark, blowing toward camped firefighting grunts fighting range fire...
After prior arrests for similar
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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one set to cover up the crime of poaching a number of deer.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Yup^^ ;That was earlier, the second? arson to cover up poaching...
Current charge is third arson... burned toward encamped wildland firefighters
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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A stiff punishment seemed pretty warranted. There is a problem with harsh sentencing in this country, however. Incarceration is a crappy tool and we way, way overuse it.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Yes hddj... also fed use of informants, based on these too stiff penalties.
I was slightly involved in enviro things turn of millenium. The patriot act really scared people, thinking sitting on a bridge could be called terrorism...although it has been hardly implemented as broadly as people feared.
True dat, gary... and probably wanted to shoot those Occupy hiipy skum
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Norton
Social climber
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any word on how the snack supply is holding out at the compound?
And yes, it did happen that Ritzheimer, who did remember to bring his paperback copy of the Constitution, actually sent out a tweet asking for care packages for things his compadres forgot to pack for their armed dude-seminar. They asked for socks, snacks, energy drinks (!), equipment for cold weather, snow camo, and "gear."
This was after Bundy had told reporters that the group was prepared to stay for "years" and had enough supplies to see them through. "We have food planned and prepared," he said.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-dumb-and-the-restless-20160107#ixzz3wgOND02k
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aside from water, by my reckoning at apparent BMI's.... this could go on for a year or more.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Aside from water, by my reckoning at apparent BMI's.... this could go on for a year or more.
Haha. The Militia Diet is all the rage.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Let 'em stay and garner more nutpersons.
Saves the cost of trial and incarceration.
And, yes, mandatory sentencing guidelines have really screwed things up. We now imprison more people than any country in history (including the Soviet Union under Stalin). We incarcerate one quarter of all the prisoners in the world.
Crazy!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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It's not just the mandatory minimums. It's our whole approach.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Is this still going on?
They have not shoot them all yet?
Boring!
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