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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2012 - 09:52am PT
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Well, one thing Obama promised is that he'd raise our standing internationally. However, the Bush-Obama forigon policy's have done nothing but hurt us internationally and the end result is that we have to spend money on the military to get our way. Romney would be just as bad. Here's Iran below, but the news in the middle east, from Israel to Oman, is that we are an unreliable partner.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107116184
Leader: Americans Enslaved to Zionist Regime
"TEHRAN (FNA)- Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei described the US administration as the most hated government in the world, saying that the White House has enslaved the American nation to Zionists.
Addressing a large crowd of Iranian students on Wednesday, the leader noted, "It is a great shame that the US presidential candidates compete with each other in their debates to show their devotion to the Zionists and have made their nation their slave."
Calling the US administration as the most hated one in the entire world, Ayatollah Khamenei reminded the US administration's allegation about war on terror, and said the White House has fallen so deep that "it has become an ally of MKO terrorist group, even renders support to the terrorist Monafeqin (hypocrites as usually referred in Iran) and removed it from its blacklist."
Pointing to the US claims on advocating human rights, the Leader said, "The most hostile anti-human rights measures are taken with the US support. The Zionists who have been violating the rights of the oppressed Palestinian nation for 60 year are fully supported by the US administration."
Ayatollah Khamenei also referred to the number of American prisoners in the country and said, "The high number of inmates in the US which has placed the country atop the world (in this regard) runs counter to the administration's allegations on supporting freedom of the people."
The US has been staunchly criticizing Iran's human rights conditions, while the country has been widely blamed for trampling upon minority rights." ................ blah blah etc etc
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 31, 2012 - 10:11am PT
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So what exactly is inaccurate about what he said Bill? Seems fairly represenative of whats going on, unless you are sppon fed on Faux News.
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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Oct 31, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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So the debt and the Fed's role in the economy hangs out there as a unresolved issue; I'll think I'll bring up jobs this Halloween. So lets looks at population growth; with growth still trucking along at 10%/decade or 1%/year:
So with population going up (driven by lax immigration policies)how are jobs doing:
Let's not forget the ruling class and their tax payer backed pensions:
To combine the three charts with get the Obama record on job creation:
And finally a lot of lip service is paid to education; so how is that liberal arts/art history degree panning out:
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
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That's an interesting look on job creation and education.
Perhaps the Republicans shouldn't have blocked the bills put forth by Obama that would have helped job creation and students seeking an education.
Google "Republican Block Bills", you'll find the heart of the GOP right there...
Got a graph for that??
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
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Basically, the Republican platform is:
Sure, we drove the economy over the cliff. But this guy hasn't fixed it fast enough, so give it back to us....trust us...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
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Oct 16, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
"Ron, you really are a potato head."
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
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Yes, it's far better to ignore them, and make up your own detached reality, isn't it?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 31, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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Your average democrat?
I'll go with guy number one 11 out of 10 times.
Guy number two.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:08pm PT
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K-man has hit the nail directly on the head with the fact that the GOP-led Congress blocked a lot of Obama's and Democrats' bills.
The Republicans were not acting bi-partisan, they were not acting for the average American nor the middle class families. They were acting to spite Obama and his administration, to spite the Democrats' attempts to fix the problems of the Bush administration, and they were acting to further the interest of the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the United States.
Even for those on this forum that do not like Obama, surely you can see that.
And if you can't see that reality, I guess you are going to vote for Zomney. May the heavens help America if MIttens gets elected.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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Even for those on this forum that do not like Obama, surely you can see that.
Ummmm, hate to be the one to break it to you Patrick....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
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Ron there may be truth in that to some extent, but I would wager that most of the gridlock was the Republicans doing.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
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K-man has hit the nail directly on the head with the fact that the GOP-led Congress blocked a lot of Obama's and Democrats' bills. it WASNT ONLY the repub side of the coin that brought gridlocks... Two words,, harry reid-tard.
Bingo! Both houses passed legislation to their liking. Reid, in particular, never brought up the House's bills for a vote. That's why the Senate has not acted on a budget. The idea that the Democrats have been flexible and the Republicans rigid holds water only in Democratic pails.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
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"Bullshit! The idea that the Republicans have been flexible and the Democrats rigid holds water only in Republican pails. "
Fixed that for you.
Your welcome.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
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1)Should Obama have not accounted for the expenditures accumulated under Bush for the Iraq war in our budget or debt?
2)Should we continue using the Federal Reserve (central bank) system opposed by the founding father's due to the debt attached to every dollar printed (among other reasons?
Mountainlion,
I didn't see your posts until today. I normally try not to post on any political thread except the Republicans are always wrong one, but since that thread has degenerated into little more than name-calling and uncritical thought, while this thread seems to have some real issues involved, I'm breaking that self-imposed rule.
Your first question assumes facts not in evidence. The idea that a president can unilaterally change fiscal policy has no Constitutional basis. Congress determines fiscal policy. Thus, charging Obama with raising the deficit assumes power he doesn't have. Of course, the only reason Republicans point out the massive rise of federal spending under Obama is that he campaigned on a premise that he would reduce that deficit.
That said, I think the rhetoric of your question raises a valid point. Obama inherited two wars, and (prudently, IMHO) did not try an immediate disengagement. I don't think it's fair to blame war expenditures on him alone.
Your second question, however, has to my mind a clear answer: "Yes." We tried being on the gold standard, and its inflexibility led to depression after depression. The American economy, with its use of debt, deflates poorly. Using debt for investment greatly increased our standard of living. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about debt used for consumption of non-durables. Nonetheless, until someone can show me a better alternative to the Fed, I think that we must continue to employ it as our primary tool of executing monetary policy.
John
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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John, Ron. Can you name one bill that the Republicans sponsored that would have helped the US middle class if passed?
I've got my phone set on Notify so I'll get your answer as soon as you post it...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 31, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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Reid didn't bring House Bills to a Vote that He knew would get filibustered.
Who would do the filibustering, Dr. F?, The bills passed the Republican house, so the only likely filibusterers would be Democrats.
Sorry, but the narrative of you, apogee, and the rest of the Democrats on gridlock fails.
For the record, it was Boehner who attempted to negotiate a "grand bargain" with Obama. He failed because Obama refused to compromise when it mattered. Obama has yet to show any substantial ability to negotiate, much less compromise, on anything important.
John
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 31, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
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I know that these sort of political threads are really there for the OP to vent some steam. And then other posters to react in same, for the most part.
While there may be some swingers on the Taco Stand, I don't see any swing voters. Those of us that post I'd reckon for the most part are singing to the same choir as their beliefs and ideologies.
There has not been one post that would make me think otherwise about who I believe should be POTUS, nobody has convinced me that Romney is better than Obama. And I suspect that is vice versa, that those who do not like Obama are not going to be swayed by any Supertopians who don't like Romney.
We are all preaching to fellow 'believers' it seems. May the best man (for the USA) win.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 31, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
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Politics is politics. Historically, somewhere in that process, the country is lead forward on one agenda or another.
There is an undeniable amount of fact & quotes to demonstrate that the ONLY agenda Republicans had after their 2008 spanking was to filibuster and block ANYTHING that was put in front of them, no matter how closely aligned it might be with their own priorities.
The PRIMARY goal of the Republicans has been to block EVERYTHING, and make Obama a one term president. That kind of cynical, anti-American agenda is an absolute abdication of their leadership responsibility, and is worthy of the termination of every single one of them.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 31, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
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JE
you seem to have a comprehension problem, anytime you get cornered, all of sudden you can't understand
Reid is in the Senate, the Senate Republicans filibuster
Same to you! We Republicans (and independents who know Nevada politics like Ron), claim that Reid fails to bring bills passed by the Republican House up for a vote. Your response is that Reid won't bring up bills that will be filibustered.
Again, I ask, why would Senate Republicans filibuster bills passed by the Republican House?
Take your time in answering. I'm trhough waiting for my econometric runs, so my break time is over.
John
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