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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 3, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
A state can not cede from the nation without the permission from every other state.
Actually the founding document, the articles of confederation and perpetual union, is an agreement between the states to form a perpetual union. The constitution didn't end that, and not all states had to agree to the constitution for it to go into effect.
There is no backing out until perpetuity expires.
The southern states tested the concept in the civil war. They lost.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Funny that after all the whining about tyranny the first thing they did was block public access to public land.
Are we getting a live feed from Ron???
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Property taxes perpetually keep your property leased-back to you, and failure to pay those taxes will get you evicted from your own property.
Your rant about the Feds loses its way right here; there are no Federal property taxes. Only the state and local governments you admire so much have property taxes.
And unless you can reference that written agreement, you're wrong about NH. Nothing in the NH constitution says what you claim, and even if it did, the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution would render it void.
TE
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 3, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
What if it turns out that the wildlife ends up being no worse off with these militia guys occupying the headquarters than it was when The Feds ran the place?
Maybe then we'd want to re-think the whole idea of government wildlife management.
The only way wildlife ends up being no worse off is if you get rid of domestic animals on range land.
Pretty sure the ranchers don't want that.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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New Hampshire constitution.
[Art.] 7. [State Sovereignty.] The people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled.
Pretty much what the constitution says.
They ratified it in June, 1784, then ratified the US constitution in 1788, wheupon they accepted the articles in the constitution.
Timeline is kinda important.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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^^^
Well certain wildlife is already better off. For instance, the Red Herring seems to be flourishing.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Bulls are, too. They are leaving lots of evidence.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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I wonder what Y'allqueda would think if a few folks went up there to set a few hundred acres of "the people's" land on fire?
I watched Bundy's interview, and he kept going on about the people's land.
And hell, they're in the business of fighting for ground burners, so I should be all good with them.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"Funny that after all the whining about tyranny the first thing they did was block public access to public land."
Hmmm. You mean like the Feds do across the west with gates on formerly open roads and such?
Can't drive on the King's roads or shoot the King's deer now can we?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Your rant about the Feds loses its way right here; there are no Federal property taxes.
I know that. My rant was not strictly about the feds. My rant is about how radically this entire nation has changed in its fundamental perspectives and what the "new normal" has come to be.
Between the IRS (feds) and the state and local property taxes, it is literally impossible to truly OWN anything at this point. There is literally no PLACE a free person can just BE, secure in their property and liberty, as long as they are operating within their God-given negative rights.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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The "FEDS" are not the enemy. They are fellow Americans. Your uncle, my cousin. Treat them with the respect they deserve. Your ugly language dehumanizes them.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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You own the roads, the airports, the infrastructure, the national park, etc.
That doesn't mean they are yours to do with as you please. It is all SHARED resources.
WHO'd a figured there were shared responsibilities. I think they call it civilization.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Pretty much what the constitution says.
They ratified it in June, 1784, then ratified the US constitution in 1788, wheupon they accepted the articles in the constitution.
Timeline is kinda important.
Just ridiculous comments. "Timeline" does not imply that NH punted on what their constitutions says, and it is well-documented what their intention was in joining the Union. Comparing NH to the southern states is ridiculous, as NH guaranteed that they had the perpetual right to secede if necessary.
And the more pressing question is: What is a free person to do? Are we ALL slaves? MUST we participate in a form of government that we have come to reject due to its excesses and corruption. If we demure, what options do we have?
ANSWER the question! There are two choices you apparently accept: 1) Move to a different country; 2) BE enslaved to a government that you repudiate as having violated its founding legitimacy.
(1) is a non-starter for countless reasons. (2) means that you demand all "citizens" to be slaves.
I reject both "answers." States that have the legal right to secede CAN and even should do so. And the feds should just graciously LET such states go, thereby leaving space on planet Earth for FREE people to non-violently opt-out of the monolithic federal power that has consumed this nation.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"You own the roads, the airports, the infrastructure, the national park, etc."
The problem is the government has forgotten that. Bureaucrats think THEY own them.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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The "FEDS" are not the enemy. They are fellow Americans.
Flat-out lie.
The feds ARE the enemy. They have become EVERYTHING that both federalists and anti-federalists alike feared! They have repudiated every principle of our founding.
They are NOT "fellow Americans." The people running the feds are NOT Americans in any robust sense.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Ya'llQaeda?
-or-
Vanilla ISIS?
Oh, and for the lunatic failed philosphy prof gurgling his bullshit above? GFYS, champ. I've given more to this nation that you ever will.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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madbolter1. Re your admitted rant statement?
There is literally no PLACE a free person can just BE, secure in their property and liberty, as long as they are operating within their God-given negative rights.
I believe taxes are one of the oldest human traditions, whether extracted in forced payment or forced labor. I think our being taxed does beat our being slaves as a method of supporting our infrastructure.
While your lament sounds great, only at the fringes of civilization have people ever been able to live without taxes.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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MB is correct in that, in principle, property taxes DO rent you your own property, but in theory the state gives you safer roads to drive "your" car that they rent you, and your county provides services for the "landowner" and "his" property that they rent to him.
In theory.
(join the Cato Institute)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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The feds ARE the enemy.
Interesting. No doubt there are problems with the US government, but think about countries where there are no "feds." Which one of them would you like to live in?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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My rant is about how radically this entire nation has changed in its fundamental perspectives and what the "new normal" has come to be.
I'm curious as to your time frame here. When did the "new normal" commence in your estimation?
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