Huge 8.9 quake plus tsunami - Japan

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 961 - 980 of total 1947 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Mar 21, 2011 - 08:08pm PT
Thanks, man. Interesting stuff all the way around.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 21, 2011 - 08:10pm PT
I edited my reply to you above, HFCS, so you may wish to reread.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Mar 21, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
People confuse radiation (easy to protect against) with radioactive material (hard to protect against if it spreads everywhere as dust.)

If the plant is emitting radiation, that's not a problem. If it's emitting radioactive debris - watch out!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 21, 2011 - 08:40pm PT
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/akaiwa.html

golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Mar 21, 2011 - 09:18pm PT
So,
I am at DOE HQ all week in DC. First thing one knowledgeable guy told me was to plan on lots of changes and our plant has a very low probability of any type of criticality rxn. I had already anticipated but not sure what the extent of the changes will be. Keep in mind I am building a plant to Vitrify waste, not a nuke reactor.

GraniteC, if you really want to get youur dander up try searching for the ocean dumps of chemical weapons. I am pretty certain that it is public knowledge (and if it isnt you did not hear it from me) at the end of WWII we took german ships full of Chemical Agent annd weapons and sunk them in the Atlantic. I would wager that the tonnage of that in the oceans far exceeds any radioactive material. Although, there was significant radioactive realeases from the Hanford site during the Manhattan Project and through the cold war.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 21, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
While Alpha radiation is the least penetrating type of radiation and will not penetrate dead skin layers…it is much more dangerous than beta or gamma if it’s ingested or inhaled because its power to ionize is 10 to 1000 times greater (20 average) that of beta and gamma.

There are a number of case histories of workers refurbishing walls receiving severe damage from natural alpha emitters in inhaled dust.

Chronic exposure to radon, which emits alpha particles, may severely damage lung tissue. The alpha emitter polonium-210 is suspected of playing a role in lung cancer and bladder cancer related to tobacco smoking. Polonium-210 was used to kill Russian dissident and ex-FSB officer Alexander V. Litvinenko in 2006.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Mar 21, 2011 - 10:20pm PT
I remember the story of Alexander, I followed it.

This gives one an appreciation of the substance:
The symptoms seen in Litvinenko appeared consistent with an administered activity of approximately 2 GBq (50 mCi) which corresponds to about 10 micrograms of 210Po. That is 200 times the median lethal dose of around 238 μCi or 50 nanograms in the case of ingestion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 21, 2011 - 10:45pm PT
hey there say, jan.... thanks for the share... you are right, and she can check the computer in her hotel, too... i had forgot about that... they would have a news report in japanese, somewhere, that would be more update than the states, etc....

thanks, jan... say how are you today?
hope all is well...

*wow, how did the students do... are they all okay?
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 22, 2011 - 07:41am PT
Well Adam I am confused because there has been negligible amounts found in food in multiple countries, and both negligible and non-negligible amounts found in Japan- so to clarify and be precise which country are you asking for the levels in spinach and milk?


Are you serious? What part don't you understand in my last reply to you:
In which country Adam?

"Please, tell me what the "government limits are"

The word you used was minuscule Adam.

Shouldn't you know the limits already?
Oh wait- you're not a food inspector...my bad
The country in which you were referring to in your reply.

And I used the word negligable... "...negligable 'tace amounts'..."

You should know that, as you even quoted me, and got it right the first time:
Adam- i thought I read there were levels 7 to 9 times the government limit found in spinach and milk? How is that negligible?


1. The word used was "lethal", which it is hardly.

2. Please, tell me what the "government limits" are for Cesium and Radioidine in spinach and milk.




And, let's remember, that my repy was made taking issue with the word "lethal"...

As in, quoting again, "and milk from cows 20 miles away contained lethal iodine-131 and caesium-137"


OK, let me see if I can break it down for you...

Initially, I responded to the report of "lethal" doses of radioiodine and cesium forund in cow's milk. (see above)

YOU then replied that you "'think you read' that levels were 7 to 9 times the "government limit" found in spinach and milk".

So, I asked you what the "government limits" were for radioiodine and cesium in spinach and milk... Your words, so I asked YOU what those limits were.

You asked 'for which country'... To which I replied, the one that you were inferring in your reply above (I.e., ... 7 to 9 times...)

(Do you even know which country you were talking about? If so, then why are you asking me which country YOU wre talking about)



So, here we are...
What are the "government limits" for radioiodine and cesium for the country to which you were reffering? Or, were you just talking out of your arse? And, for extra credit, please explain how those levels are "lethal".


Seems pretty clear, just as it seemed clear without me having to spell it all out again.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 22, 2011 - 07:57am PT
Yesterday I wrote...
Oh, and regarding the discussion a few days ago regarding electronics functioning in EXTREMELY high radiation fields...

Just today, we were discussing with one of our contractors who provides remote video equipment, some designed for very high radiation fields, whether or not he can image some specific areas of the Rx, and he does NOT think his equipment will hold up to the EXTREMELY high fields in that specific area for very long.

So, apparently, when we are talking about extremely intense fields, there is a limit that even electronics built specifically for high radiation fields can withstand.


And since one test is worth a thousand expert opinions... We used the probe anyway last night, and it lasted less than 8 hours before it fried... Now we have to buy it... $80,000!
Aya K

Trad climber
New York
Mar 22, 2011 - 10:24am PT
Oh my god, can't you people just stop? It's like you're purposely misinterpreting each others' words just for the sake of argument. Stop acting like children and have a normal discussion, please!! I keep reading this thread because it has a lot of good information, especially from Adam, in it, but it's getting so aggravating to have to wade through all the BS. I know it's a lot to ask of you people, but can't you just grow up and quit with the you're wrong, no you're wrong, see ha you were wrong, no you're an idiot, no you're an idiot nonsense just in this thread?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 22, 2011 - 10:49am PT
It's close to midnight again in Japan and I just watched the NHK foreign service for the latest news. It seems they now have electricity wired up to all the reactors and have begun work on the equipment which was ruined by sea water. They are planning to restore power first to the control room of the number 3 reactor to try to learn what is happening there. The heat in the reactors is the same or falling, and the radiation is slowly falling. It seems we might have seen the worst and things are slowly getting better.

Two big storm fronts are again moving in from China with really unseasonable cold. It will start snowing again in some places. The good news is that the wind will blow from northwest to east for 5 days again, moving any radioactivity out to sea. Meanwhile the old continue to succumb to hypothermia. A teenager and his grandmother were rescued yesterday after spending 9 days in their collapsed house.The first dead American has turned up - an English teacher in one of the local schools.

Meanwhile NHK is showing video of our aircraft carrier, the Ronald Reagan, which is being used as a floating helicopter pad for ferrying supplies. Our Navy is concentrating on flying along the coast looking for towns and even smaller settlements which are not accessible by road due to landslides, and arranging onsite landings to leave off relief supplies. We have also established another helicopter base at Sendai and continue to truck supplies southward from Misawa Air Base.

Usually the Japanese press either ignores the American military presence (their preferred mode) or criticizes it. To have them positively feature our relief efforts is highly unusual. Already one can see that one of the political losers as a result of this disaster is the Okinawan movement to get rid of the bases. All money and energy will now be focussed up north for a number of years. Economically however, Okinawan vegetable growers should reap a windfall.And on that, good night!
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 22, 2011 - 11:14am PT
So I was talking about the country of "Japan"...

So we have that set..."JAPAN"
Ok, to help you with your answer I need just a little more Information

Let us be precise now
Are you now asking for the lethal dose or the neglible dose?


For the, what, 4th time... What are the "government limits"? Now that we have established that you were talking about Japan (no surprise there), what are the government limits in Japan for radioiodine and cesium, since you said '7-9 times the government limits' for those radionuclides.

Get us some numbers, if there actually are any, to validate your statement, THEN we'll see just how 'negligable' even 7-9 times that amount really is.

rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 22, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
I'm waiting, brutha... You said they were 7-9 times the 'government limit', trying to 'shore up' the use of the word "lethal".

So, what is that limit for each radionuclide?

Your words... Qualify them with some facts, please.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 22, 2011 - 12:28pm PT
UPDATE AS OF 9:30 A.M. EDT, MARCH 22:
Tokyo Electric Power Co. has reconnected external power supply at Fukushima Daiichi reactors 1, 2, 5 and 6. Offsite electricity is providing power to cooling pumps for the used fuel pools at reactors 5 and 6. Components and circuits at reactors 1 and 2 are being checked before power is restored to them. The company on Tuesday was installing cable at reactor 4 and power is expected to be restored at reactors 3 and 4 on Wednesday (Japan time).

TEPCO said the radiation level at the main gate at Fukushima Daiichi has declined from 33 millirem per hour to 25 millirem per hour.

Fire departments on Tuesday continued to pump water into the used fuel pools at reactors 3 and 4. Seawater is being pumped through a manually laid hose and sent to a water truck for continual spraying. Firefighters have sprayed a total of 3,600 tons of seawater, or about three times the pool’s capacity, in recent days.

Japan’s Chief Cabinet Secretary, Ukiyo Edano, reported the detection of low levels of iodine 131 and cesium 137 in seawater near the plant. There is no threat to human health, officials said.

Prime Minister Naoto Kan has ordered the governors of four prefectures (Fukushima, Ibaraki, Gunma and Tochigi) to suspend shipments of spinach and milk from specified areas. However, Kan said the levels of airborne radiation in those areas pose no risk to human health.

The Fukushima Daini reactors remain in safe condition today.


http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/



Any word on the humanitarian efforts there? Especially concerning all of the displaced survivors of the areas hit by the thsunami? Seems Lybia is upfron in the current news. :/
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Mar 22, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
I appreciate Adam's calm input more than ever.

re: rAdam

What's more, I've always appreciated rAdam's efforts at accuracy and validity in his posts.
WBraun

climber
Mar 22, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
Well they are saying now:

Radiation level 1,600 times above norm in Fukushima nuke zone
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 22, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
Thom Hartmann RT TV: Is the Japan nuclear situation worse than you know?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x565830
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyLM3fKaJ_I


*They also get into the fact that there are no safe levels of radiation exposure above natural background levels.

No industry white-wash just the very real possibilties . . .
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Mar 22, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
...you seem to have lost your rational mind... something has happened...

Radiation poisoning? Eating too many K-laced bananas?
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Mar 22, 2011 - 04:58pm PT
You like the Jerry Springer Show, don't you, Riley (radical)?


And, just for your information, for your 'calculations'... The NRC puts the annual dose limit of a woman who 'declares' a pregnancy at 500 mRem. At least now you can have some actual numbers to plug into your 'calculations', since you seem to throw numbers out there, off the top of your head... Or, perhaps they come from your backside?


Are you familiar with the term GIGO?

Garbage In, Garbage Out!
Messages 961 - 980 of total 1947 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta
Loading...