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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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that's a big problem with him--20 posts later he says, "it was a trick question". i've stopped taking any of it seriously.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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I read it once, twice, and I still can't figure out what he is trying to say
I don't think Ed H got it either, and he's way 'marter than I, so I didn't try to make my head hurt anymore.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
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john, btw, can be a fine writer writing about other things, but i don't think he has had to deal with really tough editors. his writing often shows a lack of discipline and tends to run way long. his sojourn into theology/philosophy is remarkable. as i said previously, i don't think he's digested that stuff yet, and that may be why he isn't making sense here.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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so fructose spilled the beans on us--can't gossip about largo here. what a spoiler.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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it's all healyje's fault for starting this thread in the first place. it's not good faith to start a thread you have no real interest in. he's just trying to manipulate the god discussion.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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I, for one, will not be posting on this thread.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
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Well, Couch, you will be missing a thread with great legs!
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 22, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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The 9/11 Commission was a white wash and complete fraud!
Posted by rschop in September 11
Fri Dec 11th 2009, 10:35 PM
The 9/11 Commission was not only a white wash, but the whole thing was just a complete fraud. The same documents that the 9/11 commission had access to, clearly show that the CIA working with groups inside of the FBI HQ knowingly intentionally and deliberately, allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder 3000 people on 9/11.
What do these documents show:
That the CIA knew on August 22, 2001 that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, and knew at that time that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US for no other reason than to carry out a horrific al Qaeda attack that the CIA and FBI HQ had been warned about since April 2001.
So what did the CIA and FBI HQ do at this point:
First they tried to kept this information as a complete secret from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing even though the CIA and FBI HQ knew that the Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the January 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting with Walid Bin Attash, Khallad, mastermind of the Cole bombing, actually planning the Cole bombing.
When FBI Agent Steve Bongardt accidentally found out on August 28, 2001 that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and called FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi to demand that the investigation and search for Mihdhar and Hazmi be given to his group, Corsi said that Bongardt and his team would not be allowed to investigate Mihdhar because the information he would need would have to come from a NSA document and the NSA had not given permission to pass this document on to any FBI criminal investigator.
But the NSA had already approved a request for FBI Agent Dina Corsi to pass this NSA information on to the FBBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing on August 27, 2001, the day before she tells him he is not allowed to have this information.
When Bongardt was told he and his team could not investigate and search for Mihdhar, he protested to Corsi since he did not see any connection between this NSA document and a FISA warrant, and asked Corsi to get a ruling from the FBI NSLU unit, the legal unit at the FBI because he was clearly aware that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US only in order to carry out a massive al Qaeda attack. The CIA had already connected both of these terrorists to the Cole bombing and also to the east African bombings that had killed over 200 people.
When Corsi contacted Sherry Sabol, according to a footnote buried at the end of the 9/11 Commission report, on page 538, footnote 81, Sabol told Corsi that since the NSA information had nothing to do with any FISA warrant, Bongardt and his team could take part in any investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.
But Corsi on August 29, 2001 told Bongardt a completely different version of what Sabol had said. Corsi tells Bongardt that the NSLU attorney had ruled he could have no part in any investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, effectively shutting down his investigation of these two al Qaeda terrorists.
At the time Corsi is doing this, she knows as does her boss Rod Middleton and the CIA officer who was directing her actions in shutting down this investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, Tom Wilshire, that the CIA and FBI HQ had been hiding the photograph of Walid Bin Attash taken at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, the very photograph that directly connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing that took place at that meeting.
Since Wilshire had been forbidden from giving the FBI Cole bombing investigators the information that came from Kuala Lumpur twice in July 2001, and Middleton was clearly part of this conspiracy to sabotage Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar, this criminal conspiracy to hide this Kuala Lumpur information and shut down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi went way beyond Wilshire and Corsi and included many people at the CIA and FBI HQ including almost all of the CIA management, and FBI HQ management including FBI Director Louis Freeh himself.
It is now impossible to believe that when the CIA and FBI HQ ordered Wilshire and Corsi to shut down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi that they did not know that as a result of their actions, that thousands of Americans were going to be murdered by the al Qaeda terrorists.
**Since the 9/11 Commission had access to all of this information, the 9/11 Commission report was not only a fraud on the American people but was also a criminal conspiracy to hide what really allowed the attacks on 9/11 to succeed and protect the people at the CIA and FBI HQ who were behind this conspiracy.
See my Journal for additional details and the actual government documents that prove all of this.**
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2010 - 03:05pm PT
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Speaking of conspiracy theories, after more than 60 years, scholars really don't know who was behind burning the Reich stag (parliament building) in Germany, that "terrorist" event that gave the power opportunity to Hitler before WW2.
Who knows if nobody talked or if people talk and nobody listens.
FYI, disproving stuff like demolition or plane-no plane could just be disinformation or a distraction. Few follow the money or the people or the war games on that date. Only a couple of people like Dick Cheney and a few CIA guys would have to know in order for them to learn about Al Queda's plan and do a few things to make sure nothing got in their way (like conduct those war games with false radar blips)
I'd like to know why the Pakistani secret service cheif, who has been accused of sending Mohammed Atta $100,000, was meeting in Washington on 9-11 with top administration officials.
peace
Karl
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 04:14pm PT
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there has been quite a bit researched and published about the alleged hijackers sojourn in florida, where one of them even stayed at a u.s. military base, and others enjoyed themselves with lapdances, drug use and the like, like good little islamic extremists.
the reichstag was supposedly a classical case of patsy set-up.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:20pm PT
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lots has been happening in research about the pentagon end, dr. f. thepentacon.com will bring you up to date. it's as extensive as the trade center stuff.
but, to address your objections, yes, we do have some idea of what the scene should have looked like. you have to understand that there are two sets of photos which have gotten out to the public--some taken immediately after the crash by bystanders, others 20 minutes later or so when part of the building collapsed. it's just too difficult to imagine a jetliner, especially with two large turbojet engines positioned as we're all familiar with on jetliners, making the damage you see in the initial photos.
they went to a lot of trouble to stage things at the pentagon, but it all falls apart with scrutiny. as i said, the real corker is their behavior. they have footage. they won't release it, and they confiscated all private security cam footage within an hour.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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the problem with your other premise is that you're assuming there was a jet full of passengers. the great refutation of this is that there was never anything shown in the wreckage to confirm that, except a few items, rather obviously planted, which had nothing to do with a jetliner's interior. there is a piece of jet engine which was inadvertently photographed, and identified as coming from a different and smaller jet engine than that supposedly crashed.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
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the problem with your other premise is that you're assuming there was a jet full of passengers. the great refutation of this is that there was never anything shown in the wreckage to confirm that, except a few items, rather obviously planted, which had nothing to do with a jetliner's interior. there is a piece of jet engine which was inadvertently photographed, and identified as coming from a different and smaller jet engine than that supposedly crashed.
Other than a missing airlineer, a lot of missing people who happened to take a flight on that missing plane, airline parts matching the missing plane, witnesses, etc.
But I suppose Cheney staged that too.
You guys are f*#king delusional, seriously.
There's a reason why you guys have to cite crackpot websites: because no MSM would touch this kookery with a 99 foot pole.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
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Apparently the Tin Hatters have a rather inflated sense of their understanding of physics and metallurgy. When you ram aluminum with a few bits of steel reinforcement into a very massive concrete structure at 400 mph and then douse it with 15,000 gallons of jet fuel you'll be lucky to have anything left let alone any of the plane's interior or passengers. There are 128,000 BTU's per gallon of jet fuel - do the math.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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dr. f--there wasn't an original jetliner hijacked by terrorists, that's the point, the whole thing was planned and staged.
listen up, dirtbag. do you know jacksquat about air defense?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
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and yet, reilly, we were treated to two months of carefully picking up all the little bits and pieces of people and returning them to their loved ones despite the BTUs. all of which happened behind closed doors, and i don't remember a single press report of a "loved one" receiving their little package from the government.
the engine part i mention is the clincher, however. just the wrong part. too bad, it got on film.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:55pm PT
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So Tony, what do you say to the family members who have lost their Husband, fathers, wives, and children....? Are they making it up too?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
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Apparently the Tin Hatters have a rather inflated sense of their understanding of physics and metallurgy. When you ram aluminum with a few bits of steel reinforcement into a very massive concrete structure at 400 mph and then douse it with 15,000 gallons of jet fuel you'll be lucky to have anything left let alone any of the plane's interior or passengers. There are 128,000 BTU's per gallon of jet fuel - do the math.
"truthers" often note that the engine fans are made of titanium and melt only at extraordinary temps.
Also strange that people were photographed standing in the holes made by the planes in the towers. How could anyone do that if the fire was so hot that it brought down the building?
http://thewebfairy.com/911/edna/index.htm
http://911review.com/errors/wtc/fires.html
Peace
Karl
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
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Also strange that people were photographed standing in the holes made by the planes in the towers. How could anyone do that if the fire was so hot that it brought down the building?
Karl,
That is an example of the strand of straw driven through a tree by a tornadoe; it happens all the time. It is also what happens when you shoot someone - a nice clean entry hole. Elementary physics.
I'm well aware that the fan blades weren't going to burn. Your point is?
Tony,
Do provide us with the proper engine part numbers, I'm all ears. By the way, the compressor section is the big front part. The combustion section is half the diameter of the compressor section so get your tin hats bolted on properly before you try to get overly technical. Without a tape measure held up in front of said engine part I think you are going out on a very thin limb claiming it is from a 'smaller engine'. Camera lenses do strange things also especially without accurate perspective and reference.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
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"doesn't look like part of a rolls-royce engine i ever saw"--said the man at rolls-royce. just off my head here, this stuff overloads easily, and i frankly haven't kept up on it for a few months. it's a big cat-and-mouse game, and the cats don't play fair.
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