Trip Report
New Route On Playground Wall On Chiquito Dome (Shuteye Ridge, CA Area)

by Climberdude
Monday April 13, 2015 12:55pm
This weekend I was up at Chiquito Dome in the Shuteye Ridge area with some friends. This was my second visit to Chiquito Dome, which is really a nice climbing area. There is good nearby camping in the Soda Springs Campground as well as dispersed camping. We found a nice dispersed camping spot within walking distance of the bottom approach to the dome. The upper approach is closed now because the roads are still under winter closure.

On April 11 I put up a new route called "Three Knobs" which refers to the three large knobs positioned one after another about halfway up the route. I felt the climbing is around 5.6, which is similar to the rating of "Black and Blue Planet" that is located about 20 feet to the right. The route starts at a flat large rock at the base and goes right slightly beyond the first bolt. I led this route ground-up with drilling and bolt installation done at stances. This was my second ground-up drilling on lead route I have done, but I have placed or replaced lots of bolts over many years. On the way up, I intentionally ran out the placements because I felt very comfortable and because on the way down I wanted to show my friend how to place bolts. Thus, the climb was originally done with six protection bolts, but later another six were added on rappel. This keeps the route well protected, which is consistent with the other routes on this wall.

I led the route being belayed on a 70 m rope and went up to a small ledge just before the roof. The route ended up being around 65-67 m long. So if you repeat this climb, you will need a 70 m rope to lead it and a second one to get down. If someone wants to add a second bolt at a small horizontal ledge about 50-53 m up as well as quicklinks or chains, they are welcome to do so. The next time I get out to Chiquito Dome, if someone has not added this second bolt and rappel items, I will do it. I will also add a second (third if intermediate belay bolt is installed) pitch to the top of the formation. The bolts and hangers may later be replaced with Wave glue-in bolt/hangers. Stacie Smith and Steve Leahy also participated in this first ascent.

As I was hiking out, I saw another climber almost rappel off the end of one of his ropes on a route on Grande Wall. He noticed the problem just as I started to yell to him, but was already below the intermediate rappel anchor. Another reason to put knots on the end of your rappel ropes and be very careful about looking for intermediate anchors when rappelling.

Mark Fletcher

  Trip Report Views: 2,592
Climberdude 		About the Author
Climberdude is a trad climber from Clovis, CA.

Comments
two-shoes

Trad climber
Auberry, CA
  Apr 13, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
Bravo, for ground up ascent, Mark!

Which is right.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
  Apr 13, 2015 - 05:34pm PT
Yikes...sounds like you might have save his life.
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
  Apr 13, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
Right on, thanks for a new route. Got any pics?
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
  Apr 13, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
Sweet! I'd be psyched to check it out.

Why using glue ins layer?
Jones in LA

Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
  Apr 13, 2015 - 09:20pm PT
Good work! I may give it a go sometime.

Rich Jones
cragnshag

Social climber
Gilroy
  Apr 13, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
Let's see some pics!

70M is not standard... good call going back to create a belay that can be reached with a 60M or a 50M with a short simulclimb.

Are the bolts stainless?
Climberdude

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
Author's Reply  Apr 14, 2015 - 06:30am PT
Munge, the glue-in bolts are less expensive overall compared to the bolts and hangers I used. However, you cannot use them for ground-up ascents. I used stainless steel Fixe Triplex bolts and stainless steel hangers. The Triplex bolts can be removed without leaving anything in the hole and then you enlarge and deepen the hole to put in the Wave glue-in bolt/hanger. The Wave bolt/hanger is also stainless steel, so it will be long lasting.

I have done some climbing in Europe and was very impressed with the glue-in bolts they use there. They are very long lasting. If you exclude the cost of the initial tools you need, they are overall less expensive when you consider the cost of the bolt/hanger and the glue needed. They are definitely not for ground-up ascents without doing the route first with other bolts or places where you have to drill without a power drill.

I will look to see if I took any pictures. I get so engaged in the climbing, that I forget to take pictures.
two-shoes

Trad climber
Auberry, CA
  Apr 14, 2015 - 08:33am PT
Mark,

If we go back just 20 years ago, there were still a lot of troubles with glue-in bolts. There were a lot big structure collapses in the construction industry due to glue-in failures. I understand the glue-in systems have been revamped and are a lot easier to use nowadays.
But, how do we, as climbers, really know that these glue-in systems will continue to work over the long haul? Aren't we just going off whatever the glue-in company touts? Aren't the tests that are done, solely done by the companies themselves, be it Petz, Rawl, Hilti, etc.?

This might be a little like big Pharmaceutical Companys doing their own tests until they get the results they want. Will that company even be around in 20 years if those anchors fail?

In the construction industry, people have to be schooled and certified to use these type of glue-in systems, because the failure of the systems can be catastrophic.

For all I know, you do work in construction and are certified in glue-in concrete anchor systems?

At least the mechanical stainless Steel bolts have stood the test in the fields and have a reasonably good history going. Aren't we better off to use them especially in hard granitic rock?

I'm just asking, because I really don't know these answers?
Killer K

Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
  Apr 14, 2015 - 08:49am PT
I agree that glue-ins are unnecessary in granite. Stainless steel bolts, be them wedge or 5 piece easily last 20+ years and have the advantage of being replaced easily if needed. Glue-ins sound like a lot of work for a 70m 5.7

My .02
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
  Apr 14, 2015 - 11:10am PT
thx Climberdude. If I can offer a thought here if the net result is a perma bolt...

5.75 for the wave bolt at retail. Not sure if it includes glue.


2.99 hanger + ~2.00 for SS wedge 2.25" = 4.99 (this assumes a sale price on hangers)

but even 3.50 retail metolius + ~2.00 for SS wedge, is only 5.50 per bolt, and doesn't include your start up cost of the triplex, which eventually will get banged up from the repeat removals.

no skin off my nose here, but if you shop it the costs are cheaper.

Now, if you got the waves for say less than the price of single hanger, then I see where you are going.

The only downside with the glue in, will be replacement after say 80+ years.

thx,
M
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
  Apr 14, 2015 - 11:16am PT
I look forward to checking out the route. Thanks for the TR.

John
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Apr 14, 2015 - 11:44am PT
LOL

After free soloing the Black and Blue Planet with a friend, we free soloed something 20 or so ft to the left one day. It was part of his solo circuit. I though those 3 knobs were super cool as well. Don't really care you retro bolted and rap bolted that line. Maybe more people will climb it...
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
  Apr 14, 2015 - 11:51am PT
^^^^LOL!!!!
Climberdude

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
Author's Reply  Apr 14, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
I think the issue of problems with glue-ins for the construction industry is a completely mute point. The Climb Tech Wave bolts are completely different from drop-in threaded rod that is used as a glue-in bolt in the construction industry. They are also completely different than the glue ampules that are crushed and mixed in the hole by a bolt.

I know that some have expressed concerns about the overkill of glue-in bolts, but I already have the bolts, all the installation supplies (with are expensive but are reusable), and the glue. Unless you go very cheap or buy huge quantities, the total cost of a glue-in bolt plus the glue needed is less than a high-quality, climbing-specific, stainless steel bolt, and a stainless steel hanger.

Yes, a glue-in bolt is not removable, but it also does not have to be replaced for many years. Wedge bolts are also not removable and probably would have to be replaced sooner.

Vitally, probably a lot of this wall has been free-soloed at some point, but it is a great wall with many possible moderate bolted climbs. Yes, the three knobs are really nice.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
  Apr 14, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
Wedge bolts are also not removable and probably would have to be replaced sooner.
If you go with 316 stainless wedge bolts at $2.50 each, I doubt they would need to be replaced in dry granite in 100+ years.
(This is from judging the good strength of most 1/4" non-stainless bolts in the same rock after 30-50 years).
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Apr 14, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
For the record, my friend said he calls it "Morning Stretch." And he is not sure who did the original FA. If you do a MP page for it, you should probably use that name instead of "Three Knobs."

For the future, bolting on easy mid 5th class routes may not be a good idea. Or at least not spraying about retro bolting lines others solo to warm up.
Climberdude

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
Author's Reply  Apr 14, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
Vitally, give me a break. The lizards have been climbing this for millions of years, so I guess we have to create categories for first human ascent. I wanted to let people know that they need two 70 m ropes or at least one 70 m rope plus a 60 m rope to get down if they do this climb, not create a sh*tstorm.

Next time I will not report anything and you are all on your own.
looks easy from here

climber
Santa Cruzish
  Apr 14, 2015 - 03:19pm PT
Love that slab. Mellow lines, great hang-out spots at top and bottom, nice views. Cool to have another route on it. Thanks for taking the time and $$.

For the future, bolting on easy mid 5th class routes may not be a good idea. Or at least not spraying about retro bolting lines others solo to warm up.

Why not? Because people who don't climb as hard as you don't deserve to enjoy that section of otherwise virtually unprotectable slab? And your spraying about soloing it as a warm up is way more obnoxious to me than climberdude's write-up.

I admire your dedication to honing your passion, Vitaly, but remember you were a beginner once, too.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Apr 14, 2015 - 03:33pm PT
Next time I will not report anything and you are all on your own.

How do you think we got down before you placed your bolts? Are you trolling? :) One usually doesn't go up something they don't know if they could down-climb, walk off or rappel from. As I said, if you want to spread info, make an MP page.
PS: My name is spelled with liy not lly :)

Happy climbing man!

Why not?

Why not add a few more bolts to climbed routes in Toulumne? That is a better question. I mean easy routes were put up by expert slab climbers with giant unnecessary runouts. Because placing a bolt takes work and no one wanted to stop and drill or lose a bolt. And now those lines are off limits to those new climbers who would have a good time on the climb if it was bolted for their level.

And your spraying about soloing it as a warm up is way more obnoxious to me than climberdude's write-up.

I was simply saying the line has been climbed before. You won't find any TRs by me about free soloing, I have only one up about the Evolution Traverse. I don't bring up free soloing ever, usually. Just trying to provide more info about the real history of the route. I also said no one really (I dunno maybe someone does actually? The glue ins...) cares about the added bolts.
looks easy from here

climber
Santa Cruzish
  Apr 14, 2015 - 03:41pm PT
Why not add a few more bolts to climbed routes in Toulumne? That is a better question.

Are they reported? Then hands off. Has no one ever said anything about it until now? Do what you want.

And just because the bolts are there doesn't mean someone's holding a gun to your head to clip them. /devil's advocate

Edit: Also
Or at least not spraying about retro bolting lines others solo to warm up.
is passive-aggressive spray, but it's still spray.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
  Apr 14, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
Nice work Mark. Thanks for the beginner route and tr.


V- I'm totally coming down just to bolt the easy solo line next to this climb...


;)
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
  Apr 14, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
I'm going to poop in your Indian food
But then it would look like Indian food.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Apr 14, 2015 - 07:11pm PT

I'm going to poop in your Indian food

I will reverse the reverse of your vasectomy brah
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
  Apr 14, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
i guess ya gotta be aware of what you call an FA out there and what you bolt cuz it's been a locals area for about 50 years. It's not virgin territory, as it can sometimes appear to be. Good discussion on the technical aspect thanks
DaveyTree

Trad climber
Fresno
  Apr 16, 2015 - 11:47am PT
Well.....that escalated quickly.

Tks for the info Mark. Way to go on the FA. You can't beat the feeling of doing FA's. Beats just climbing any day for me. To me it is the planning of the where I want to go vs. where the rock tells me I should go. Just love it. I have never been to Chiquito yet but heard it is fun.

Vitaliy, I know you climb hard and I really enjoy your FB pics. Not to mention the story of the almost epic with Senior Crabs. This was Marks second ground up which is way cool. I don't think you were wrong in what you said but it came out a lot different than I think you meant it to sound. I think I would have tried to give that heads up info on the DL some how.

As far as FA's, one thing I have come to assume that any rock, cliff or boulder that has a name, all the routes have been climbed. An if I am looking at a route to do an FA because it looks cool, someone else before has most likely already climbed it. I just assume that after I put out the info, someone will pop up and claim it from back in the day. The times this has happened it is usually some badass climber I have had a LOT of respect for. I take it as a compliment that I had the same vision of one of THOSE guys.

Soooo.....now I take my happy self to places with no names and no trails to put up my measly FAs and bask in my gloriousness. Once I am done puting up all the routes I like, I will share. (They are not done)

Mark, I see you are a Clovis boy. You hit Metal Mark? We should hook up at the gym. I am usually a 0500 morning guy and then sometimes afterwork, especially when I am too lazy to get up that early.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
  Apr 16, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
I don't think you were wrong in what you said but it came out a lot different than I think you meant it to sound. I think I would have tried to give that heads up info on the DL some how.

NOT REALLY! IT WAS A PRANK! :)

I never climbed at Shuteye. Hope you guys could have a good laugh at this one. I would not sound like such an as#@&%e if it wasn't a joke...or who knows? Troll of the week! Or maybe my 'friend' will go pull your bolts! haha
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
I love Supertopo.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
Darn it!

I was enjoying the good ol' fashion spray and slander!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
  Apr 16, 2015 - 11:06pm PT
... the climb was originally done with six protection bolts, but later another six were added on rappel.
You dumbed it down to twice as many bolts?
That's a sad state of affairs.
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