Trip Report
PREPARE FOR AND EXCEL ON LONG ROUTES

by Vitaliy M.
Wednesday April 15, 2015 2:55pm
After the 'Advice for Astroman' thread I wanted to write down a few tips, and it grew into something way more comprehensive than I thought I had patience for. Reading about cool stuff, looking at pictures etc is much more interesting than reading advice, but if anyone is interested to improve their speed, efficiency and safety on long routes, I put together some thoughts...I know this board is full of experts (non trolling ones), so if you have more things to add, drop them down!!! I hope some of this stuff is useful to the audience.
There is a lot of stuff there and I am hoping to move it here when I have a bit more time...promise! :)


http://vividrea1ity.blogspot.com/2015/04/prepare-for-and-excel-on-long-routes.html

top left corner top right corner
Views from the base of Chiaro di Luna.
Views from the base of Chiaro di Luna.
Credit: Vitaliy M.
bottom left corner bottom right corner

  Trip Report Views: 7,745
Vitaliy M. 		About the Author
Vitaliy M. is annoying gym climber from San Francisco.

Comments
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:07pm PT
I'll comment on number 3 and 22.

3, because finding the right partner is THE most important thing.

22, because it's counterintuitive for all the "trad" climbers out there. Passive gear can be a downright nuisance to remove and speed, along with safety, is critical when doing long routes.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
So you are saying you think those two are very important? In the introduction I made sure to note that these are in no particular order for the most part.
Maybe I should replace the number with a * ?

And maybe I should add DON'T OVERTHINK SH#T. If you analize every placement, anchor and situation you can go nuts. lol
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:21pm PT
I do think that the right partner is the most important factor especially on alpine climbs. Number 22 isn't one of the most important items.....I commented on it because it is one that almost no one would think of.....good job!
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
Efficient, rather than quick, is a more wholesome focus.

+1. Some of the vocabulary is not perfect, English is a second language and I think I used the word efficient a bit too much :)

And no, I was not saying 3 pitch climbs at LL is a good way to prep for Chiaro Di Luna, I was saying there is a different need for gear. You do not have to bring too much for your typical short climbs and can have more fun if you go lighter. Proper, quality gear is important, just avoid the overkill.

Get really good at using nuts and tricams - open up your bag options.

Point in that section is to avoid using them without a need. KNOWING how to use them is essential for any climber climbing routes using own gear.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
Yes Vitaliy....thoughtful commentary from someone who is out getting it done gives this forum some climbing gravitas.
cat t.

climber
california
  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
Don't bring an entire quiche and a bunch of fresh fruit on an alpine climb.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 15, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
People only alpine climb to justify eating fatty, salty food.
enjoimx

Trad climber
Yosemite
  Apr 15, 2015 - 04:05pm PT
Great. Thank you
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
  Apr 15, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
Vitaliy, this is a very thoughtful and (dare I say it?) inspirational post - thank you; really good stuff in there
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 15, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
Moose, you can have a break. Jim...NO WAY! Actually he was the one who showed me the mega light headlamp and vibram 5 fingers. :)
L

climber
Just livin' the dream
  Apr 15, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
Really well written and informative. Would never have guessed that English is your second language. You write better than most on this forum. :-)

Amazing photos--especially that frisky mountain goat!

Thank you for posting this. Hope to see more from you.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
https://nutagain.org
  Apr 15, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
Thoughtful and good stuff :)
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
  Apr 15, 2015 - 05:23pm PT
Excellent.

Expanding on 16, I'd make a sepperate point that learning to run it out on easy ground is a huge time saver. You're saving the time from placing the piece, cleaning the piece and reducing rope drag.

Learn to read a topo. As someone who is guilty of getting off route, I can appreciate analazing a route before comitting to it to reduce the chances of going off route.

I'd add carry a knife to carrying a lighter.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
  Apr 15, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
These are great tips Vitaly. I would love to see the backlash if this got posted on Mountain Project. Keep up the good work.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 15, 2015 - 06:00pm PT
Paul, will do that actually, thanks for adding. It is mostly stuff most know already, but for sure it is not applied in practice enough. Common sense right...when I went through nursing school 90% of it seemed like common sense too, but why do nurses get paid well? Applying the knowledge when it counts matters. Even though practice doesn't make a perfect climber, but we all can learn and get better, so I wanted to remind others some of the things I think are important. Really hope some people can gain something out of it.
I think writing about some of this stuff, helped me remember a lot of the stuff which should be applied.

Backlash on MP? Why?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
  Apr 15, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
Well written and motivating.
Hoots

climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
  Apr 15, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
Nice work V- I like it! Lots of great insights in this post.

One thing- I have guilty of this plenty myself, but when thinking about clipping a piece of the anchor before getting that Jesus Nut in, consider what is going on- you have a gear anchor, with varying qualities of placements as a reality. By providing a hard catch with so little rope out, the chance of blowing a marginal piece before that first bomber placement can be made right off the belay is kind of real.
Seems like the current "industry" standard is clip the master point or nothing.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 16, 2015 - 11:31am PT
Hoots, is there any reading I can do about it? Would you personally clip the masterpoint vs a BOMBER top piece or a bolt, if you have equalized your anchor with a cordalette vs a sliding x? Seems like extra 2 meters of rope or so would make the system more dynamic. In any case, I think placing a first piece off the belay is preferred to keep yourself safe. I have stood in a sling to place a high piece in spots when a fall onto the anchor is a possibility.
While guiding I bet people don't really use a sliding x eh? I usually use it when I am 100% certain every piece is bomber. I remember it getting a lot of praise in the John Long's book on anchors but most of the people usually tie an equalized masterpoint.


Good video:

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/slings-at-anchors/?hc_location=ufi
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
  Apr 16, 2015 - 11:26am PT
Thanks Vitaliy! Good insight into practices I've made habits over the years, and others I often times overlook. You da man!
climbski2

Mountain climber
The Ocean
  Apr 16, 2015 - 11:47am PT
I thought this was going to be a spreadsheet.
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
  Apr 16, 2015 - 11:57am PT
Vitaly,

While much of this seems like common sense, I think it's one of those things we learn as we go yet seldom take the time to analize why. For instance going with a minimal rack, I find when I'd be geared to hilt it seemed just as much a mental limitation i.e. being weighed down by my fears of not having just the right piece of pro as it was the physical weight.

Another common sense weight savings is going with a single rope on straightforward long routes. Not having the easy option of full length rappels from 1/2 or twins is another mental boost, i.e. I'm committed to getting up this thing.

As far as the sliding X with two bomber pieces, that was the standard that was taught when I started out, but in the big scheme of things plugging in a third piece and tieing with a cordalette will at most add a minute to building the anchor, something I can't see as being the difference between success and failure. Sometimes it helps to throttle down the boldness when it comes to building anchors, sometimes a couple a clove hitches and you're GTG.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
  Apr 16, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
Thanks for the well-thought-out and well-written post. Even after 47 years of doing this, you gave me new things to think about. I'm with Donini - and you - on the importance of the right partner. Being yoked to someone with substantially different long-term goals led at least one of us to big disappointment.

Again, though, thank you. And those pictures were inspiring, too. Even though they're not exotic for a central California climber, I particularly enjoy picutres of the Palisades, and yours was superb.

John
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
  Apr 16, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
Re: Hoots' comment.

I think the way it was most succinctly phrased to me was something like this: " If you're going to take a factor two fall, wouldn't you rather do it onto the master point?"

Once you get another piece in is a different story.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
  Apr 16, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
Vitaly,
MP would pick it apart simply from a "safety" standpoint. Not too many understand the speed is safety or simplicity is safety point of view. Sometimes you just have to deal with what you have, I posted a picture of a anchor I built out of a chockstone wedged in a crack on MP, I was out of gear and i made due with what I had and it worked. The backlash was incredible, I was told I need to carry more gear, unsafe, unprepared etc.... My point was that sometimes you just have to make due with what you have and make the best of it, especially in the alpine. MP posters tend to be more concerned with 15 point equalized anchors and arguing over PAS devices. Just my take.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:00pm PT
People can talk for hours about anchors....some spend nearly that long putting them in. Long rock and alpine routes require speed and efficency.

I have done hundreds of these types of routes and I'm still here. If Internet experts critiqued my anchors I would be pilloried to the high heavens. So be it...I know what an effective anchor is and I'll let people moving into this area of climbing discover the same for themselves.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:06pm PT
I have done hundreds of these types of routes and I'm still here. If Internet experts critiqued my anchors I would be pilloried to the high heavens. So be it...I know what an effective anchor is and I'll let people moving into this area of climbing discover the same for themselves.

And they would have critiqued our generation's hip belays, with which I have held quite a few leader falls, too. And they could have criticized sections that I did unroped, for that matter. The logic of big mountains - where safety requires speed - requires deviation from "textbook best practices." The more I re-read this thread, the more I appreciate Vitaliy's post.

John
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
Hip belays are still a good option on easier ground where the leader or 2nd wants a quick belay. Fast and it works.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
You're right John. It's best to be familiar with "textbook procedures" and then, thru experience tailor them to fit you're needs.
The key is "experience" which is only gained in the field, never in a book.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 16, 2015 - 01:42pm PT
I think somewhere in there I mention that people spent more time discussing useless sh#t and critiquing each other's anchor set ups than they do climbing. Maybe it is a natural part of being a beginner. I learned I shouldn't tie knots in dyneema that way. :)

Regarding the partner section...I used to climb things with people who were available for the route I wanted. Changed that this year, won't climb with anyone I don't enjoy climbing with just because I want to do some route. Not worth it. Having the right partner is a must. At least someone you believe you will get along with. After I did that, I had more fun climbing than ever. Getting out with two Adams (Burchy and macronut) and Daniel this weekend. Mega excited.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
  Apr 16, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
Great stuff, Vitaliy!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
  Apr 16, 2015 - 03:39pm PT
I have to disagree that climbing to "your needs" necessarily means sacrificing saftey.
This was in my reference to anchors....because of my experience I am often able to place fewer anchors without sacrificing safety. It's a function of familiarity with rock types, crack structure and the general belay setting.
Interesting how a lot of climbers who insist on three equalized anchors for a belay will rap off of one or two anchors when loss of gear is in the offing.
Rap anchors are ALWAYS weighted....belay anchors rarely so.

Again...kudos to Vitaliy for his excellent analysis.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 16, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
If Vitaliy's intent was to encourage ideas and interaction, he is doing a great job of that.

That was my exact idea. Moving your ego aside and improving is something I would love to do. For example, I confess to not use a back up of a prussik while rappelling, and I think that HAS to change ASAP. Accomplishments will mean nothing when one has a broken scull because their anchor failed, or because the rock fall forced them to let go the brake hand.
I think it is perfectly fine to use the best judgement when one is familiar with what works and what does not work. But it is great to improve when you can add safer tactics into own practice. Especially if someone can show you a quick and efficient way. This is a great thread for that. When you are out in the mountains you have to act (and learn on your mistakes), but here we can hear each other out and see if we can adopt something from other climbers.
For example if I had a bomber single BD #3 placement and nothing else, i would be much happier than 3 equalized crap micropieces. At times you have to take what you get, but most of the time one does not have to add spice into their practice for no reason. You live once, and it takes only one f-up to finish the climbing lifestyle. We can all agree on that...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
  Apr 17, 2015 - 06:20am PT
Great read and a great example of how effective training is. The fact that VM has accomplished so much in 5 years of climbing is a stunning attestment to training!

for myself relaxing and comming home in one piece is key. Being in high places is often enough for me without haveing a huge agenda. I guess that makes me an under achiever. I can rise to the occasion when nessicary though. I do have a few guide lines that make things safer and faster. Unless its an FA or FFA the onsight flash means almost nothing.
I have a policy of Alpine rules for the 2nd. if you don't get that move on the first try grab gear and keep moveing. a big climb is not the place to stroke you ego by takeing 10 min to figuer out a move free without weighting the rope.

I am a firm believer in the guides belay for the 2nd. Keep it tight! I get pleanty of excitement on lead so when its time to follow a pitch keep it tight so I can follow quickly without haveing to sink my tools or take the same kind of care I do when leading. on the same note I will give you the guides belay and I expect you to cruise the pitch mostly hooking and not swinging for the fences. same goes on rock. run up that sucker and don't be affraid to french occasionaly :)
Jones in LA

Mountain climber
Tarzana, California
  Apr 17, 2015 - 06:13am PT
@vitaly -- this is an outstanding contribution to our community. Now we know your secret(s) to gettin' 'er done! Thank you!

Rich Jones
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
  Apr 17, 2015 - 07:28am PT
Thanks V. Good stuff to pass along.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
  Apr 17, 2015 - 10:13am PT
Obviously it depends on the route being climbed but in general I have to agree with the Ledge Rat. I am out there to relax and unwind. There are however certain climbs where a sense of urgency is highly recomended. Perhaps the OP spends most of his time on those kinds of climbs;)
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
  Apr 17, 2015 - 11:00am PT
The thread is about how to succeed on long routes. Maybe urgency is the wrong word, but if you want to succeed at long routes, you need to eliminate the fumbling and bumbling and focus on the task at hand.

Lets take a hypothetical 10 pitch 5.8. It really shouldn't take more than a few hours vs. dragging it out to an entire day with the risk of getting caught by an afternoon thunderstorm.

To me there is a beauty to moving efficiently over stone.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
  Apr 17, 2015 - 11:13am PT
On many climbs Urgency is the correct word. launching on to le Promenade on a day when it is 10 belowF and sunny in the parking lot but the predicted temps for the day are 25f and sunny in the afternoon with no wind, a sence of urgency is in order as getting caught in the middle of the ampetheater when your screws start melting out and bombsicles are flying by can be a bit un nerveing. On a day when its 30 and cloudy you may be able to relax a bit:)
GARY Owen

Trad climber
Lexington
  Apr 17, 2015 - 11:13am PT
Thank you for the discussion all. Here's an interesting piece from Will Gadd on the "Jesus Nut"/clipping the anchor concept.
http://willgadd.com/anchor-clipping/
steve shea

climber
  Apr 17, 2015 - 11:22am PT
I agree with Trad and Ledge. Although this is an impressive list and post, if I had this punchlist back in the day, I might have found a different sport. I am sure some new climbers look at this as a daunting task, to check all these boxes.

I liked the simplicity of free climbing at first then got into aid, walls, ice etc. Then put it all together in the mountains. The boxes all got ticked with experience. There is a bit of angst in some the comments above. All are cogent to the topic but come from a variety of experiences and perspectives.

In retrospect the final exam for me was alpine climbing and high altitude alpine climbing. The planning, fitness, tactics and strategies all became second nature and just part of the endeavor. Learned from experience. In one range we got so familiar with the geology and conditions, that we took the exact same rack on every route.

Really interesting post Vitaly. I guess I feel now as though I never thought about it much. The alpine education was a natural by product of many years in the mountains and a logical progression.
CCT

Trad climber
  Apr 17, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
I especially like #2 - don't be afraid to fail. We read mostly about successes, because that's what people post up. But to get there, almost everyone went through a steep learning curve. And if you're still growing as a climber, you're still occasionally failing. Mr. Donini's recent NIAD attempt is a great high level example of that. :)

Some of my best memories come from those times I pushed myself and my partners to our limits. A mylar sack is a must on my personal safety list, as is repeatedly checking the weather report before the climb!


Speaking of speed, what do folks actually use as anchors in the alpine environment? I confess, I usually go for 2-3 bomber pieces, connected by a sliding X, usually dyneema, and tie myself in to the masterpoint with a clove hitch. I use guide anchors only about half the time, depending on the position of the anchor. I know this isn't ideal, and at a minimum I should be using nylon. Just curious how other people actually play out there. Don't like cordelettes because they are so bulky on the harness and mono-use. Maybe I have too much faith in the Jesus nut!
Texplorer

Trad climber
Sacramento
  Apr 17, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
I prefer Word and Powerpoint on long routes.
jfs

Trad climber
Upper Leftish
  Apr 17, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
Good, useful and thoughtful list.

In answer to the above, there is no single anchor that would be classified as my alpine anchor. Nor is there a "guide" anchor. A good anchor might be a sliding X, with or without limiting knots. It might be a pre-equalized cordolette. Maybe a single piece. Maybe a terrain belay. Maybe a seated hip belay.

These are all tools in the arsenal. There is no single right way. Just good judgement and proper application.

Secondly, the cordolette is anything BUT "mono-use". It is one of the most versatile tools you can carry. Still, sometimes I don't carry one. Often I do. There's that judgement thing again.

But rather than sidetrack this into another anchor debate, I thought the list was a solid breakdown of some of the larger ideas behind how to move more efficiently. For those of you who climb to relax and enjoy the ride, things like the ideas in this list are precisely what allow you to kick back on longer routes and enjoy the moment whenever the time and objective allow. I love moving quickly and competently with a partner as much as anyone out there. But I also love that it is precisely what allows me to soak in the moment whenever we like.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
  Apr 17, 2015 - 09:15pm PT
If both climbers are useing atc guide style belay devices and leap frogging when the 2nd arrives at the belay you take his/her belay device and put them on in lead mode leaveing the ropes through your auto locked device in follow mode. no need to clip in with anything else while they re rack. when they get set to leave they take themselfs off on your auto locked belay devise and clip it to their harness. Repete as needed.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Apr 23, 2015 - 03:22pm PT
I agree with Trad and Ledge. Although this is an impressive list and post, if I had this punchlist back in the day, I might have found a different sport. I am sure some new climbers look at this as a daunting task, to check all these boxes.

I do not see the comment Ledge Rat left, and can't really reply but wanted to throw my 2c about why I wrote the piece...it was not meant to be some check list that people should religiously follow. When I climb it is freedom of choice and freedom to practice my art that I am after. I was not trying to suggest one should limit how much fun they have. I wanted to share some of my thoughts on avoiding epics on long routes and some of the things that help me personally. In the piece, I do suggest to enjoy the scenery and take in the experience since our memories of the climb will not be pleasant if we have our head up our ass while we concentrate on sending. That was not the point. On most days I climb, I am very relaxed. When I try to beat the sun however, I do my best to do things quick and efficient, even though I am not a robot and have own clusterfks all the time! We all climb for own reasons and receive different satisfaction. I get pleasure from long challenging days as well as from cragging. Variety and freedom is why I love climbing - Freedom of the Hills was named that for a reason. Ice, aid, slab, fingercracks, ow, top rope at the gym, slippery classics, dirty first ascents, I love it all honestly. There is nothing wrong with taking time to drink a beer on the wall and nothing wrong with those people who want to get more efficient so they could knock off some of the climbs that seem over their head at the moment. Those who want to read it can hopefully take something out of it and those who care less, don't have to obviously.

Robert, I have read Colin's piece a few times over the last several years, it is a really good one. In real life, he is a really helpful individual as well. Would share his knowledge with whoever needed some suggestions about the beta, weather etc in Patagonia. Would be nice to have more helpful guys like him around with such rich resume!

for myself relaxing and comming home in one piece is key. Being in high places is often enough for me without haveing a huge agenda. I guess that makes me an under achiever. I can rise to the occasion when nessicary though. I do have a few guide lines that make things safer and faster. Unless its an FA or FFA the onsight flash means almost nothing.
I have a policy of Alpine rules for the 2nd. if you don't get that move on the first try grab gear and keep moveing. a big climb is not the place to stroke you ego by takeing 10 min to figuer out a move free without weighting the rope.

+1 tradman. I usually don't care too much about onsightingor flashing something unless I am really trying to get some RP or am on a FA/FFA. Not sure why, but whatever. Different day different mindset...
Joe

Social climber
Santa Cruz
  Apr 27, 2015 - 09:38am PT
haven't got through it all yet, but very impressed....thanks for sharing.....
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
  Apr 27, 2015 - 11:45am PT
Thank you for all the awesome contributions. Psyched to be able to say we met on The Nose!
JLP

Social climber
The internet
  Apr 27, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
Climbing routes some margin below your OS/RP abilities pretty much summarizes and simplifies everything here. The closer you are to your limit, the more sh#t you'll bring, the less confident you'll be, the longer you'll take - etc. Don't push every aspect of the game at once. You won't learn it all at once. It's not rocket science.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
  Apr 27, 2015 - 05:29pm PT
In the winter I am more stressed out about too much sun than darkness. sloppy ice on grade 5 territory with melting out screws and falling daggers scare the crap out of me. Darkness is no big deal. Ice climbing in the dark is pretty reasonable. I always have at least two headlamps. If you don't have confidence in finding the walk off it is usually relativly easy to rap the way you came up on ice.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
  Apr 28, 2015 - 11:41am PT
I've been through this thread a couple times and I got to say it's one of the best here. Maybe one of these days I might actually have a real comment, but for now I'm just taking it all in.
Rugged

climber
Berkeley
  May 2, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
Agree the most with the addendum, re: sticking to only climbing with people I like. After 40 years of climbing, which route I climb has become almost meaningless and the people I choose to climb with everything. I still like to challenge myself but if I'm not hanging with friends "so what !!"
NutAgain!

Trad climber
https://nutagain.org
  May 4, 2015 - 07:08pm PT
One thing that helps to get the momentum going when you don't have a partner or you've been out of the loop for a while, is to just get out there and do what you can with whomever you can, and share your adventures, until you build up enough street cred and contacts that you have your choice of partners.

Consistency in prioritizing time and finding a way to make it happen has a way of compounding like interest on savings.

Edit:

And another MAJOR thing. How you conduct yourself in your non-climbing life to make time for climbing consistently! The better you can manage your work commitments and building up the emotional bank account with family members, the easier it is to make time for climbing. Washing dishes, making meals, finishing household fixit projects, being emotionally present with the significant other and the kids, etc... Less time on supertopo and netflix, more time getting stuff done or planning the next big adventure. On that note, I'm going to go stop fluffing around and go learn some songs for a studio session next weekend. It's not climbing, but it's something else I enjoy.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
  May 5, 2015 - 07:34am PT
Great TR topic. Thanks Vitaliy for your many informative contributions to Supertopo, and thanks to all for some good info and conversation.
I am no grade IV big wall or high altitude climber and what I would say is articulated better by others here.
I will add that getting an early alpine start is essential.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
  Jun 9, 2015 - 07:00pm PT
Glad I read this and learned new things.

But does anyone really replace their regular approach shoes with Vibram 5 fingers shoes?
Clayton

Trad climber
  Oct 6, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
Great post Vitaliy!

A couple of things that I thought of:

- Tying off a sliding x can be a pain to untie, but if you clip an extra biner through the 8 / overhand, it won't cinch as much... especially if someone is jugging on the anchor.

- Sometimes it's best to have the second jug vs climb, even if it's within their ability. This way the block leader can have a minute to eat, drink, re-layer or chill... or the leader can short fix and keep going. Especially useful when the second has a heavy pack.

- Rapping a big wall is a serious undertaking. Speed and efficiency when rapping are really important and a unique skill to have. When doing 20 raps, you start burning through sling and gear in a hurry

- Per the previous point, it's not a bad idea to have up to 15m of rap cord and an extra set of nuts if going up something big without an established rap line that you can easily reach

- A gri-gri can be quite useful on big walls and in the mountains. Great to lead belay. Onsight rappelling (unknown terrain) it's also nice to rap a single fixed line on a gri so you can look around, build an anchor, and such. Then if you don't rap long enough to need the second rope, the top person pulls it back up to half way and does a single rope rap

- Opposite to the gri-gri but alpine often has lots of easy terrain where a rope is nice but a belay device is a pain because of how fast the leader is moving. Munter and / or hip belays are great for this

- One last rap idea, a stuff sack hanging off your harness can be a nice way to manage the ropes when it's windy or an annoying, low angle gully where your ropes constantly get snagged when tossing them

Cheers
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Author's Reply  Oct 6, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
But does anyone really replace their regular approach shoes with Vibram 5 fingers shoes?

Sorry, missed the question. YES. I do. Jim Donini recommended it when we went to the black.
I bring them when I climb 3 pitch routes at crags with simple descents. I also bring them on some of the backcountry first ascents 17 miles away from the trailhead. Especially if we carry two backpacks to the base and leave gear to pick up after the climb. They save a lot of weight on routes that already require a ton of extra.
Perfect for climbs like Nose in a day, Steck Salathe, NEB etc.
Had them on this weekend for the link up of Astroman to Rostrum. They were great for the descent and the hike back to the car.
(Sent Astroman but we had some trouble going around a party aiding the first 3 pitches of the Rostrum. Had to pull on their gear to get around them and by the time we got to the midway ledge we were tired and the light was fading anyway. So we did the crux pitch and rappelled/hiked off. If we kept going it would get ugly a bit higher I think...Those guys did not have a ride back to c4 and we were happy to help with that too. And to hang out with own friends at camp. Would be awesome to link up the two climbs free one day...another good reason to train and get better/faster)
:)

Great additions Clayton!
On big free routes where the terrain is unknown, I usually like the single gri gri and two autoblocking belay devices. Leader is being belayed with a gri gri while both climbers have an auto locking device. In case leader has to aid or the belayer has to deal with a stuck tag line/get food/take a picture or whatever, the gri gri is a nice way to add more safety in the system. I am not advocating inadequate belaying, but I have seen a climber fall close to 50 ft at a crag when the rope slipped through the hands of an attentive belayer. Likely would be a 15 ft fall if a grigri was used.
cornel

climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
  Oct 7, 2015 - 06:40am PT
Great topic Vitaly, thank you. I really agree with your strategy completely. Personally I am Always looking for a better, faster, and safer way. The fine tuning of systems never ends. Important comment by NutAgain too. Along those lines ones choice of a Significant Other is very important right up front. I learned the hard way - after 2 divorces that I was choosing the wrong mate. A female who shares your vision of life makes all the difference. No internal distractions to blow up the climb.
cornel

climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
  Oct 7, 2015 - 06:48am PT
Peak state, it's all about being in Peak State on Blast Day. In the most comprehensive sense. Deliver yourself to the base in peak state.
Scylax

Trad climber
Idaho
  Oct 7, 2015 - 07:53am PT
Very interesting as well as helpful article.

Thank you!
Go
Recent Trip Reports