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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2014 - 06:43am PT
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Why not take it from the source, or the founder's own words.
Because you guys do not, when you repudiate the words of Thomas Jefferson (a wall between church and state), or you repudiate the Constitution that guarantees gun possession for MILITIAS.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2014 - 06:52am PT
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But coming back to the original question, I have reconsidered my standard thinking about Communism: It hasn't failed, it simply hasn't been tried.
(I say the same about Christianity)
There is actually a good model for communism: The Kibbutz. Widely used in Israel.
A kibbutz (Hebrew: קִבּוּץ / קיבוץ, lit. "gathering, clustering"; plural kibbutzim) is a collective community in Israel that was traditionally based on agriculture. The first kibbutz, established in 1909, was Degania. Today, farming has been partly supplanted by other economic branches, including industrial plants and high-tech enterprises
In 2010, there were 270 kibbutzim in Israel. Their factories and farms account for 9% of Israel's industrial output....and 40% of its agricultural output.
Kibbutzniks did not individually own tools, or even clothing. Gifts and income received from outside were turned over to the common treasury.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 16, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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I would double-check anything I found on Wikipedia, and then double-check that, before I assumed it was true.
Wikipedia as a primary source of information is sketchy. At best, it will point you to a more credible source.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 16, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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Thanks for the laughs...
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Aug 16, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
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blueringworm: glad to see your fascist "logic" attempting to keep afloat in a sea of reality. You see, people who aren't fascists provide verifiable facts to support their allegations.
AGAIN, when you started this hateful thread, you accused pinkos of being opposed to ANYTHING AMERICAN. Now, would you be man enough to explain what your delusional accusations are referring to?
Oh, yeah - what is your opinion of the the fairness of 37% of wealth in the U.S. being controlled by 1% of the population? Sorry to keep repeating myself, but if you had responded the first time I asked, I might have let this question drop.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Aug 16, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
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The OP mentioned the ACLU.
Calling them communists is absurd. They defend the Bill Of Rights, particularly when it isn't popular.
We need an ACLU type organization. Too many times we see people trying to reserve those rights only for themselves.
True communism does not think much about individual rights, only collective ones.
The ACLU is a hyper-libertarian group. Calling them communists smells like fascism.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Aug 16, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
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Chaz posted I would double-check anything I found on Wikipedia, and then double-check that, before I assumed it was true.
Wikipedia as a primary source of information is sketchy. At best, it will point you to a more credible source.
Why read Wikipedia when you have Breitbart's and PatDollard's web sites?
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Byran
climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 16, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
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Guys, I'm sure that Youtube video created by USAPatriot76 is way better informed and unbiased than anything you're going to find on Wikipedia.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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Why read Wikipedia when you have Breitbart's and PatDollard's web sites?
They don't claim to be unbiased. Nice to see Breitbart and PatDollard getting so much free press here though...
Guys, I'm sure that Youtube video created by USAPatriot76 is way better informed and unbiased than anything you're going to find on Wikipedia.
Um, it's a video of the founder in his own words, and others. Do you think he was coerced or something?
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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blueringworm: I am continually amazed at your lack of even a scrap of integrity.
You started this thread with the statement (these are your own words) that goes: blah blah blah (my words) organized protests AGAINST ANYTHING AMERICAN.
Would you be intellectually honest enough to explain yourself?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Aug 17, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
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bluering states They don't claim to be unbiased.
And yet you run to them for the "real scoop" every morning. I have no problem with people indulging in a little self-assuring confirmation bias with partisan sites on their personal time, but when you start using their articles to try to prove a factual point about something you've dropped down the rabbit hole.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Aug 17, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
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I have found Wiki to be an excellent source of info, particularly on the topics of history and science. It has a self correcting mechanism in place, and it is far better than any written encyclopedia.
I read the entry about fascism yesterday, and it was in depth.
People use the word "fascism" too loosely. The main tenet of fascism is hyper-nationalism.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
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BASE 104: Hyper-nationalism is one of the tenets of extreme conservatism.
With respect, I hardly ever see the term "fascist" used anywhere, and fascist is an appropriate label for the delusional comments supplied by the author of this thread. What I DO see - everywhere - is the words "socialist" and "pinko" used as an insult to anyone who doesn't support right wing views.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 17, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
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Just stopping by to enjoy watching people kick blurring for being a dumbass. Carry on.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
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Hey Flip Flop: thanks for the laugh. If you're ever up this way, give me a call - I owe you a beer.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 17, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
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Ken M is right: Communism has never been tried on a national scale.
And it never will because everyone would be too busy arguing about what communism should be.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
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And it never will because everyone would be too busy arguing about what communism should be.
Or how, this time, it's REALLY gonna work....
f*#king pinkos.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Aug 18, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
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Hey Bruce Kay: Don't forget that you're talking to a fascist who STARTED this thread to accuse the hordes of commies who are assailing all that is good in the U.S. by being - direct quote from blueringworm - OPPOSED TO ANYTHING AMERICAN.
In spite of being repeatedly asked for clarification, he is not man enough to explain what on earth he is talking about.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Aug 18, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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Thatcher and Reagan did more for humanity than any f*#king commie, despite their preachings and platitudes.
Dream on buddy. You really think that Reagan was responsible for the end of the Cold War, indeed if it did end? Gorbachev stuck his neck on the line more than Ronnie did. Of course, I wouldn't hesitate to think that you believe the US won WW2 by itself (a lot of brave people in the US military, I would have sh#t my pants jumping out of a landing craft on Omaha Beach, for example), without the Red Army losses (huge), the British, Aussies, Kiwis, French, Polish and Dutch Resistance movements, Indians, Nepalese, Chinese, Burmese, and others etc etc. Rah rah America. (EDIT, for Stewart, thanks dude, and Canadians, see below).
And remember my family has been in America longer than yours has - 1640 - and fought the British in the War for Independence and the second man to sign the Declaration was an ancestor. But because I am a liberal, to you that equates as a leftist, perhaps you may even think I am a commie.
As for Maggie, I interviewed her in August 1989 (London, where I was a journalist for seven years). Gawd was she a pain (me against her senior press officer, two other press officers, a secretary and Mag's main aide - and her, the Iron Lady. Dogmatic, obstinate, an effing pain to interview for an hour. She tried intimidating me, seriously, I kid you not). Take my word for it, she was a pain. Or don't take my word for it, at the end of the day I could not care what some person like you thinks. If perhaps you came out with some reasonable, level-headed, logical statements, I would be prepared to listen to you.
Politics aside, I know you are a decent chap, a good dude, just a bit, uh, eh, out of left field. Oops, make that right field.
EDIT
Humanity? Thatcher and Reagan? Don't make me laugh. For example, prior to the invasion of the Falklands/Malvinas by the idiotic and psychopathic Argentinian junta, Maggie's poll rating was as low as 14% at one point. She welcomed the invasion IMO. Like the junta, very unpopular at the time in Argentina, Maggie knew a war is a good way to get a nation behind a leader. A good boost in the polls.
Forget diplomacy, send the boys off to die. Show me Bluey, how Maggie was great for humanity. Or even Reagan. Show me. And not some propaganda crap from some right-wingers, I want proof, documented proof. Otherwise your assertion that Maggie and Ronnie were great for humanity is a load of manure.
And don't compare them with Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler or anybody of that ilk, we know people like those were crazy. Headcases. Of course Ronnie and his ideological "lover" Maggie were not like those people. But good for humanity? Actually, I am laughing.
ANOTHER EDIT
Hey Bluey, so if all Americans do not think like you do that they are commies? Have I taken that correctly?
I am glad there are liberals, conservatives in fact even neo-conservatives and neo-liberals in America. I can do without extremists, regardless of their ideology, but what makes a country like the United States great is precisely that there is a difference of opinion, dialogue, back and forth (as long as it is constructive), and consensus.
Correct me if I am wrong Bluey, but you seem to want all Americans to think like you do. That would truly be the beginning of the end.
Oh yeah and this…
I would have sh#t my pants jumping out of a landing craft on Omaha Beach
I probably would have.
But Uncle Bill Casey (US Army), injured and captured in North Africa, then escaped from a Nazi POW camp in Italy along with two Canadian commandoes, made their way back to Allied (British) lines after an ordeal.
Uncle Joe Sawyer (US Marines) injured and captured in the south Pacific and suffered in a Japanese POW camp. Malaria, beri beri, and horrendous abuse.
These were men, people, fighting for democracy, for Americans to have a voice of their own, for ideological differences, for people to agree to disagree. Not some crybaby who calls people who do not believe in his ideology and politics, commies.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Aug 18, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
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Patrick: Magnificently put, but too bad blueringworm is going to ignore it.
Don't forget that this guy figures that Fox news is an impartial provider of information. You may have noticed that he won't even defend the original assertions he unleashed when he started this thread.
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