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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 24, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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jstan
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
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"The real problem is that every bunch of murderous thugs to come along think THEY are the right people to run it."
I don't know about the murderous part. But this is very apt characterization of our republican party.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Feb 24, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
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Why should everyone in the neighborhood own a lawnmower and a snowblower? Why not 1 in 10? At $1,000 a pop, you could put $9,000 for every 10 people into something nice for the COMMUNIty as a whole. Edcuation, a COMMUNIty garden, whatever.
I don't think it's illegal for a community to do that. The problem comes when the government tells me I have to contribute. Maybe I like shovelling snow, or I like the $5000 snowblower better.
I actually think community gardens in urban areas are a fantastic idea. Kids need to know food doesn't originate in the warehouse of Safeway.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
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"Blue, you were born in the wrong age.
You would have had more folks agree with you back in the early 1950s."--dktem
How true this is, not necessarily for Blue, but for the preachers and believers of pre-modern day Conservatism. The non-solvable problem for them is that their very "movement" (oxy-moron) is a Catch-22 in itself--"We need to do what was done in the past in order to go ahead"
Look at one example, Mr. Limbaugh--his education (lack of it), upbringing, politics, et al represent the out-dated consciousness that is holding back progress in this country merely by being of a demographic set that can still bring numbers at the voting booths.
,,,at least that's the way I see it.
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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TGT, right. The system is valid, but the people who are elected to implement it get power hungry and become corrupt.
WESCHRIST - You're right! Communism is not evil, it's just propagandized and of course those in power in Communist countries are pretty evil (see: China, Russia, etc)
Actually, America is a Socialist/Capitalist country.
Medicare and SOCIAL Security are socialist ideas. Bank bailouts are definitely socialist ideas. They've capitalized profits and socialized losses. Government intervention in financial markets is a bit of communism when they maintain a floor in the stock market to prevent it from crashing.
And as I draw my post to a close, I'd like to leave you all with this thought from our government:
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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"We need to do what was done in the past in order to go ahead"
Which country has ushered in the most progress in it's relatively short history?
North Korea? China? Cuba? Vietnam? Venezuela?
Communism is great on paper or the college classroom, the problem is it never works and ends up sucking real bad for the people
Unless you're talking about a bunch of hippies growing veggies and having 'free-love', then yeah, that can work sometimes but never on any large scale. If you wanna do that, fine, good luck to ya!
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:31pm PT
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bluering, you're neglecting the fact that capitalism doesn't work, either.
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
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“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”
Winston Churchill
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
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Gary, not perfectly, but it seems to be the best thing going.
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:37pm PT
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“In the Soviet Union, capitalism triumphed over communism. In this country, capitalism triumphed over democracy.”
Fran Lebowitz
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
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“I believe totally in a Capitalist System, I only wish that someone would try it.”
Frank Lloyd Wright
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:43pm PT
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“This American system of ours, call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it what you will, gives each and every one of us a great opportunity if we only seize it with both hands and make the most of it”
Al Capone
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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“Capitalism is Man Exploiting Man; Communism is just the opposite”
Eastern European proverb
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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Ed, what the government should have done is bail them out. Then it should rewrite the laws to limit the size of the company so that in the future, when a company fails, it wont take the whole country with it.
No such thing is pure capitalism.
No such thing as pure socialism.
Neither system will work as men are in control and they aren't pure.
So we have a blend.
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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“Communism is like Prohibition, it's a good idea but it won't work”
Will Rogers
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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bluering, you're neglecting the fact that capitalism doesn't work, either.
You do realize the irony of posting this on the internet, from what I am sure is comfortable accommodations, within an hour or so of when we are all going to enjoy our lunch, from which we have an overwhelming number of choices on what to eat?
All while we contemplate our recreational activities, which we can pursue in our ample free time, even if we have to use our personal vehicles to cover great distances...
It's worked pretty damn well for all of us at the taco.
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apogee
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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“The trouble with Communism is the Communists, just as the trouble with Christianity is the Christians”
Henry Louis Mencken
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Binks
Social climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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The trouble with so called opposition to communism\socialism is that everyone on here supports some form of it. We all have our sacred cows that must be supported by tax money. It's "other people's" socialist priorities and not our own that outrage us. How about just NO TAXES at all? I could have retired by now if that were the case.
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gonzo chemist
climber
a crucible
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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"...organized protests against anything American..."
Blue,
you really like hyperbole, dontcha?
And its probably worth noting that the use of the term 'communist' to describe any nation is an incorrect use of the word. I'm not sure that we've seen any nation actually achieve communism. Most countries that ventured down the path to communism ended up as dictatorships. That's sort of an important distinction to make; because as we all know, "absolute power corrupts absolutely."
And just as you all love to get on a soapbox and defend your right to possess guns, I'll always defend peoples' right to peaceably assemble.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 24, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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In a real sense both systems failed for the same reason. A few people wanted the power to make choices for everyone.
In 1905 the Mensheviks took part in an unsuccessful uprising against the still existing feudal order. Following WWI another group, the Bolsheviks led by Lenin overthrew the Tsar and in addition brutally suppressed the Mensheviks. The so-called Communist revolution came into being when a small group suppressed everyone else. That was the context.
In the US it is becoming increasingly clear we have a party whose only priority is that they must have power. Tolkien's line, "Sauron shares power with NO ONE" once again appears to be operational.
The failures are not based on economic model at all, much as people love to argue the point.
The operational word here
is
despotism.
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