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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
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Nicely stated Bruce Kay!
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
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philo
I would call it an insult to the victims past, present and future to simply sit back wringing hands while lamenting and mourning and crying out "why is this happening", but doing nothing about it
donini
.as one who has experienced the loss of a child i can tell you that the first few days you are encapsulated in a cocoon of numbness, it gets much worse several days aftter the event
you both clearly speak my own thoughts.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:07pm PT
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Hey Jim and Fred....thinking of you two.
Susan
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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"Maybe a day or two of gun debate silence in memory of the kids and teachers lost today?"
"That is said after every one of these sick and violent events."
Yep. Methinks some/most of the families of the kids & teachers would find more significance in seeing something....anything...positive that could come out of an event like this that could minimize similar events in the future.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
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nobody will admit,"guns did not kill those kids,but it sure made it a lot easier"....as read earlier in this...
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
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Mental illness is such a cruel disease.
Edit : consider how guns are only a tool the mentally ill use to do unthinkable things b
Consider the possibity it's time we stop ignoring mental health needs in this country.
More I ponder this tragic event, that's what I come to. The guy shot his mom in the face so many times she was unrecogizable, then, took her registered guns to the school. No sane person does that.
Could have just as easily rammed his car into a classroom. Sorry for the bad analogy...
Ugh.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
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http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/wake-another-mass-shooting-lets-talk-about-americas-dangerously-gutted-mental
It's not so much the guns, the ammo, the NRA.
It's the country's stupid attitude about Kooks, Creeps, Dips, Freaks, Tards, Borderline half-wits, Jack-offs, Twerps, Midnight Ramblers, Goofballs, Tragically misunderstood Momma's Boys, and Wicked Witches.
Fatally-flawed geniuses not so much...
Never mind the fact street people never seem to be the perps. It's always some loser loner with a middle-class background. How you gonna spot these guys? It's futile, IMO.
And it sucks. It's homegrown terrorism. No fuching around, put them down. Sorry, Ash Hole. They were teeny little kids!
Maybe the next time it won't happen during the holidays...
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
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Mother killed by her own gun. No surprise there. You're much more likely to be killed by your gun than using it to save your life.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
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toadgas
reductio ad absurdum
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
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How long before the public wants their schools to be run more like prisons?
And yes, it was a nut with a gun that did this. Nothing would have changed this outcome and from what I've heard so far the teachers did all that they could to protect the innocent.
Yet another example of how much damage guns do to peoples lives.
I can hear the gun lobby already "The guns didn't walk onto that campus by themselves" and their stupid f*#king argument "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"…
The world would be safer without Bombs, Guns and Corporations that make money off both
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
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no ,i am not sorry,its the guns,i live in wny,the largest bullet making state in the world.it is the guns.what do you do about it?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
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Jim...Montana was a great kid who loved life and his dad. So sorry for your loss. I was so impressed with him the few times I had the pleasure to talk with him one on one.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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I'll try this again to see if anyone actually notices the facts...
In 1991 about 24000 people were murdered in the US by various means, guns being the most common but strangling, clubs and body parts like fists were also used.
In 2011 slightly less than 14000 was the number. A steady decline of over 10000 over 20 years.
You say we are a violent society? I say that compared to for example the middle east or Africa we are amazingly peaceful here. And we are certainly a more civil society than we were 20 years ago.
It has been posted upthread that the number of these horrific mass killings has remained about flat.
The biggest school mass killing was in the 1920s in Michigan and was done not with a gun but a bomb.
The media whips these awful events into a frenzy, it is hard to keep one's perspective.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
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Maybe a day or two of gun silence in memory of the kids and teachers lost today?
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
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I agree. Kids died today. Little kids.
It's time to mourn.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
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Kris wrote: The media whips these awful events into a frenzy, it is hard to keep one's perspective.
Are you really serious...20 kids dead, 7 adults and the shooter.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
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The media whips these awful events into a frenzy
Oh yeah, it's not nearly as bad as as it seems.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:18pm PT
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Riley you are completely out of control.
It saddens me - not the depth of sadness we all feel over today's news - but it saddens me anyway to see someone on this forum resort to vile insult and name calling. We are all among a group of people with a common interest and experience. We can agree on some things, disagree on others and all still be brothers and sisters in climbing. In this we are not like most other people.
To me your bullshit is like water off a duck. I try to present reasoned arguments and you spray profanity and insult. There is no engagement or exchange of ideas.
Too bad really.
EdiT: Jeez guys. Where did I say it wasn't bad??? The facts support the conclusion that our society is significantly less violent than 20 years ago. That was my point in case it wasn't obvious.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
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Heidi and I discussed this tragedy over dinner and we both remembered stories from friends and family that work as judges, about how desperate the situation has become with people that are “mentally ill.”
With budget cutbacks in healthcare, the standard for “mentally ill” people in Idaho------and I think most other states, has become:
Incarcerate, medicate, and release.
The problem is: Idaho releases them, and when they quit taking the medication, that allowed them to be released, the judicial system doesn’t know until they commit another transgression that cops are called for.
It looks like the sick-man in Connecticut may have been one of those that was released for good-medical behavior. At least he was at home with his mother. A surprising number just get kicked out to become “street-people.”
I want to second the comments from a ST member from Connecticut with 500+ post on ST.
fear! I think you have a real point!
From fear:
What we need to figure out is what may be a common root cause of this random homicidal rage. Something has changed, for the worse, in the past 20 years. That's not a long span on time. Meds, GMO foods, chemtrails(jk)...
My vote is on meds. I've personally been witness to psychotropic med induced insanity in otherwise perfectly normal people with normal histories. The recent push on television of these complex and horrifying drugs is sickening. If you think the NRA lobby is anything compared to big pharma companies.. you'd be wrong.
This isn't about guns. It's about where this human will to kill as many strangers as possible comes from often in young people without violent histories. For some reason the last mall shooter really bothered me. 22 and seemed so damn normal from his digital history....
So, we need to disect every killer's medical history. Were there any common meds perscribed? I can't even count how many people I know now on some med "for the winter blues"...
Every one of those medication comes with the "May cause suicide" warnings.
It's not a stretch at all if someone's brain is that fuc#ed by chemicals that suicide is pretty damn close to homicide.
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