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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:22am PT
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Tacos of the world, unite!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:22am PT
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You would rather the LDS leaders advised members to embrace Skousen's ideas and practice polygamy again ?
LDS will never be "mainstreaming" in the USA (as it is). But it's necessary to advise members so they are not misled by the likes of Skousen.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:26am PT
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They don't have too. The authentic LDS history, heritage, legacy, core beliefs, and root practices essentially give them a life of their own at this point. A certain percentage of the Mormon faithful will always buy into polygamy and an even larger percentage will always buy the Skousen's perspective on living in the world.
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Mimi
climber
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:26am PT
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Back on topic, can the ideal ever get beyond the dictator of the prolitariat, given the nasty nature of a select group of folks in almost every situation.....?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:33am PT
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"A certain percentage of the Mormon faithful will always buy into polygamy"
Some will, but they can't be defined as "faithful" in violating church law. That's why they're excommunicated.
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Mimi
climber
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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Sorry, this is the commie thread. Can't we just have a little honest godless communism?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:38am PT
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What would you guys like to know? I'm holding a copy of the bible in my hands as we speak...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:41am PT
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Some will, but they can't be defined as "faithful"...
They can in every respect be considered faithful to the true heritage and legacy of the church. They can even maintain it's the LDS which is being unfaithful and make a solid case for it. Joseph Smith's wives:
Emma Hale
Fanny Alger
Lucinda Morgan Harris
Louisa Beaman
Zina Huntington Jacobs
Presendia Huntington Buell
Agnes Coolbrith
Sylvia Sessions Lyon
Mary Rollins Lightner
Patty Bartlett Sessions
Marinda Johnson Hyde
Elizabeth Davis Durfee
Sarah Kingsley Cleveland
Delcena Johnson
Eliza R. Snow
Sarah Ann Whitney
Martha McBride Knight
Ruth Vose Sayers
Flora Ann Woodworth
Emily Dow Partridge
Eliza Maria Partridge
Almera Johnson
Lucy Walker
Sarah Lawrence
Maria Lawrence
Helen Mar Kimball
Hanna Ells
Elvira Cowles Holmes
Rhoda Richards
Desdemona Fullmer
Olive Frost
Melissa Lott
Nancy Winchester
Fanny Young
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:41am PT
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Mimi, I think your getting to the heart of the matter. How do you remove the nasty parts of human nature from the "guys at the top"? How pure and altruistic can we expect our leaders to be? Should there be stronger penalties for misuse of the public trust? Death perhaps?
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Mimi
climber
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:48am PT
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Yay, not only a stoning, but a stoning and perhaps some flaying too. Gotta have a proper flogging first, of course. And a fine brine rinse afterwards.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:50am PT
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"They can in every respect be considered faithful to the true heritage and legacy of the church."
Being true to "heritage and legacy" is not equivalent to being true to the faith....if the dictates of faith change. The LDS church began as monogamous, becoming polygamous as social conditions compelled. Return to monogamy was obvious evolution as ratio of men to women equalized, (thank heavens).
Many American historians claim the LDS church repudiated polygamy to gain statehood. Not really accurate....Mormons wanted a nation apart from the United States. But the U.S. "owned" the territory...so the Nation of Deseret never came to be.
Interesting list, HealyJE, but somewhat irrelevant to the issue...again, polygamy was not eternal doctrine. Female converts out numbered male in early days of the church. But it should be mentioned that two thirds of Mormon men in 19th century Utah had but one wife.
Getting back to Cleon Skousen...yes, there will be Mormons who subscribe to his ideas. But his rationalizations are his own. Considering he was a professor at BYU and held considerable influence in and outside of Utah, it's valid and reasonable for church officials to communicate that Skousen’s writings should not be taken as church doctrine…especially considering the church's doctrinal belief that millennial society will incline toward socialism.
If you wish to begin another thread I’d be happy to discuss it with you tomorrow.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:50am PT
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Can't we burn at least one person at the stake? Pretty please?
And what about dunkings? They're always a ton of fun.
I just love these religious threads.
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 25, 2010 - 02:54am PT
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Bluering must be trolling us
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Feb 25, 2010 - 04:20am PT
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Kids today remember Vietnam and the Cold War the way a 50 or 60 year old remembers World War II and the Depression - as dim memories. It's a very good sign, I think, that all that anti-Communist freedom fighting nonsense is finally fading into the past. With all manufacturing migrating overseas, there just isn't a proletariat in the US anymore to rebel against the capitalists. The economic system that Karl Marx wrote about just doesn't exist anymore.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Feb 25, 2010 - 04:42am PT
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Hey Mimi
I have a hot tip on a great source for a fine, brine rinse.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Under the Macabre Roof
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Feb 25, 2010 - 09:08am PT
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Pelt them with rocks!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 25, 2010 - 10:18am PT
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Healje, I love Jo's last wife's name, Fanny Young.
I can see the old coot overhearing elementary school roll call, Young, Fanny?...
Here!
MH, as for dunkings, the current politically correct term is "water boarding".
Mimi, when you started to call for stoning I wanted to joint in. But then I realized it wouldn't involve a lighter so never mind.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 25, 2010 - 10:29am PT
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Marxism is basically Karl's theory on history, especially the economic aspects, and his predictions on what the future holds. Economics is what drives history, according to the Karl.
Economic systems evolve over time, like all pieces of culture. Hunting and gathering gave way to feudalism, then mercantilism, then capitalism. Nobody planned it, there were no conspiracies, it was simply evolution of economic systems. Marx's theory is that the next step in this evolution is socialism. As the capitalists accumulate capital and create monopolies, the next step is for these monopolies to be nationalized. The evolutionary step after socialism is communism.
There's no conspiracy, it will happen naturally. So bluering, better face facts, man. the commies are going to win. Even if you don't drink the water.
On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 25, 2010 - 10:39am PT
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On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason.
Hmmm, Blue seems to only ever have a beer in hand...
Maybe Blue is the common-ist.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Feb 25, 2010 - 01:31pm PT
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Let's not forget the original commie....Jesus Christ, who made all his disciples sell all their stuff and hold money communally for the good of their community according to need.
That's going to really bum out the conservative right when Jesus comes back and wants to raise taxes to 100% (with rebates for need) He'll see Gitmo for sure.
That list Bluering posted doesn't make sense to me. Sounds more like somebody distorting the standpoints of an opposing side by casting them in a negative light
Peace
Karl
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