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TRo
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:26pm PT
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I remember when we hid under desks as students (in the 50's) in "drills" called "Civil Defense" to protect us from nuclear attack from the Soviets. Then as a teacher doing the "Columbine" lock down drills to protect us from ourselves. Anybody know what's next?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
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Public schools are not designed with intruder scenarios in mind, if they were they would look like a prison.
I think that with some imagination this scenario could be avoided. Of course making our schools like our airports is the worst outcome.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:35pm PT
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Anybody know what's next?
Based on what I read on this thread, a further lack of civility when we should be sharing our grief.
John
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:46pm PT
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I look at my prized collection of digital photographs of my 4 year old Grandson and cannot for the life of me imagine any reason to shoot him.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
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I keep thinking about the poor kid who saw someone come into his classroom and shoot the teacher without a word. He ran with friends out of the room and escaped. 20 other classmates did not escape. His world has changed.
I don't know why this happened. I do acknowledge that murders are less frequent. Somehow the incessant media coverage makes it feel so much more overwhelming. Does it encourage the unbalanced?
I do remember another mass casualty - the family massacred in my hometown. Until today, that was the largest mass murder in CT's history. The foster brother beat his brother's wife and children with a tire iron, then set the house on fire. 9 people died. I drove by as he walked away from the crime scene late at night. One of the children had been in my religious instruction course a couple years earlier. That certainly affects my opinion that insane people determined to kill will do so. That day my world changed. At least I was 18 years old before encountering such evil.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Does it encourage the unbalanced?
yeah I think so
three days ago at the Oregon shopping mall mass killings, the killer said "I am the shooter", prior to opening fire
fame
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
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Somehow the incessant media coverage makes it feel so much more overwhelming. Does it encourage the unbalanced?
Yes, publicity is a factor. These killers feel empowered by these acts and the resulting uproar. A good analogy would be the guys who run out on the field during sports events. The networks refuse to show them on camera, it reduced the occurrences of that nonsense. If they quit publishing the details of the killers, no pictures, no names, then I think we could reduce the copycat effect.
edit: girls also run out of the field, remember Morgana?
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
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My heart goes out to all of the families affected in Newtown, CT, especially the little ones who survived. What will it be like to be 5 or 6 or 7 years old and to have to set foot inside that school again? And what will it be like for every parent that has to drop his child at school? I can't imagine what it must feel like to have the rug pulled right out from under you at such a young age.
It seems to me that this sort of violence is just bullying, albeit on a grander scale. I wonder whether the gunman was bullied? Or was he a bully?
There's all this talk about treating one another with respect and decency...special classes in school, national media attention, ad campaigns...can we agree to respectfully disagree, even here on this forum?
I recently stood up on behalf of a colleague who was being bullied by other people in the office. The bullying continued to gain momentum and draw other individuals into the mob until he was getting it from all sides.. Once they figured out that I wasn't on board, the retaliation/bullying grew to include me -- I was even warned not to get in the way (i.e., my job would be in jeopardy). Not for nothing, but I strongly believe that the fact that this sort of behavior is tolerated, and effectively encouraged when no one takes a stand and says, "Hey, this isn't right." - this is the heart of the issue.
If there weren't guns, another substitute would be readily available...IMHO.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
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I look at my prized collection of digital photographs of my 4 year old Grandson and cannot for the life of me imagine any reason to shoot him.
Because you are sane.
These mass/random killers are clearly not. The media and most people are looking for reasons from a sane point of view. This will never work.
But, there have been troubled/insane people since time began.
There have been weapons since time began. Firearms are largely unchanged in the past 50 years. Firearm ownership in the % of US households is far less than it was 100 years ago.
What is different now? Something has changed... very recently.
That's what we need to find out and fix. What is driving the motivation to kill random people, and now babies, in previously otherwise nonviolent/young future killers?
So what's changed in the past 20-30 years?
Psychotropic Medications (my theory), something in the food, chemicals in the environment, etc... These 20-something random mass-killers were born unto the medicated generation. Perhaps those "harmless" ADHD meds crammed down their throats while their brains were still developing has had some other unpleasant side effects, like murder.
What's changed is where the answer lies. Not in bickering about who should be able to own high-capacity magazines or signs declaring areas "firearm free". That solves nothing and simply divides us.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:41pm PT
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What the news seems to be saying.
1. The Lanzas were living in a very well to do neighborhood. Big houses with lots so big it was semi-rural.
2. At the time of the divorce the father signed over the property for $1.
3. There is an older brother.
4. The first person he killed may have been his mother, who was a teacher at the school.
5. Virtually no contact with the people in the neighborhood.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:55pm PT
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I can't read all the posts here tonight, but has anyone mentioned the person in China that today stabbed 20+ children in their school. Some reports say they were stabbed to death.
There are all types of things out there that can hurt people. But generally they are used by....people.
When horrendous things like this happen it seems we want to attach blame to something and think we can solve the problem by doing away with the thing we blame.
But passing more and more laws and restrictions doesn't seem to make the problems go away.
The answer perhaps lies in the core of humanity.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Dec 15, 2012 - 12:27am PT
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Instead of countless posts about guns and arguing here about them....even tho we are climbers and should be kindred spirits in some fashion....how about taking some time out and writing a letter of condolence to the families and sending it in care of the school to show we care.
It almost seems irreverent to argue when people are in such pain and suffering such loss. Lynne
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 15, 2012 - 12:31am PT
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LL LL -- "... how about taking some time out and writing a letter of condolence to the families and sending it in care of the school to show we care."
Best comment in the whole thread .......
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 15, 2012 - 12:32am PT
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Lynne,
Closer to home, almost twice that many people have been murdered in San Bernardino just this year. Christmas is going to really suck for all those families this year too. Maybe think about helping some of those folks out too. Nobody remembers them. Obama has remained silent too.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Dec 15, 2012 - 12:48am PT
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How could we get their information, Chaz? Looks like there's plenty of folks that need support. A real field of opportunity to turn the world around. Cancel out the hate with care and compassion. This is a good time of the year to start.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Dec 15, 2012 - 12:53am PT
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Gene had the best post.
Asking why is a process of disassociation
when all that is needed is sympathy and support.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 15, 2012 - 01:10am PT
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Too bad mental health care isn't as easy to get in this country as guns are.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Dec 15, 2012 - 01:14am PT
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Why is a presumption that
1. We can figure out the mind of these people, on-line, with limited knowledge - thus justifying our "I have it figured out, and if this were MY world"...
wait for it...
disassociation.
2. Tends to supersede the real issue: the victims, family friends, etc
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 15, 2012 - 01:15am PT
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Mental healthcare is FREE, Philo. ( look around ) You just gotta ask for it.
How much easier could it get?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 15, 2012 - 01:18am PT
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At least three guns were found - a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said. A law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said some of the guns used in the attack may have belonged to Lanza's mother, who had legally bought five weapons.
So, again, we have the situation they always warn against: A gun owner killed with her own guns, which are stolen, and used in the performance of violent crimes.
Of course, if she hadn't bought the guns, he would have done the same thing with her kitchen knives.
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