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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Boeing actually builds very FEW engines. I used to haul GE engines to Boeing a LOT. Try again.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Crash history lately....
That's your answer? C'mon, you can do better than that. You made a very definite statement that implies some real knowledge.
I'm guessing that you don't have that knowledge -- am I right? Or do you actually work in the aviation/aerospace industry in a position that has given you the knowledge base to back up what you said?
Edit: Whoa, look what turned up while I was writing the above:
How long has Boeing been building robust engines and aircraft???
Boeing doesn't build engines at all. Hasn't in recent history.
Have you ever thought about qualifying your unsupported opinions with something like "Well, I don't know about this myself, but I've heard that..."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 05:01pm PT
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Whatever, skullman, Boeing intergrates the best airplanes this side of Lockheed-Martin.
There wasn't a GE logo on B-17's in WW II. It was Boeing. Just watched it on the History Channel, so I'm totally 'informed' now.....
EDIT:
No Ghost, I'm going on recent Airbus engine recalls from the news. I'm in electronics not avionics. But I DO understand how sh#t can hit the fan when you compromise quality or workmanship.
You get what you pay for...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
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Ever hear of the Boeing Bailout?
Heard of it? Yes. Care to elaboarate your point?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Centrally controlled economies make as much sense as genetically engineered monoculture crops.
It's all fun and games till the unexpected.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Trains were a huge part of the US culture and economy from the 1840s to the 1950s, and are still a huge part of the economy. They're by far the cheapest way to move things on land, and passenger trains are still heavily used in the more densely-populated areas. Subsidized, perhaps - as are roads, airplane manufacturers, and airlines.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
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Trains were a huge part of the US culture and economy from the 1840s to the 1950s, and are still a huge part of the economy.
Re-read my post above. Once the car (and truck) showed up, pfffft!!!!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Steve, Airbus doesn't build engines either. The engine failures that you're talking about are the A and B series Trent 900s from good old Rolls Royce. Has absolutely nothing to do with the aircraft they're hanging from.
Now c'mon. Stop trying to make it sound like you know anything about this. There are probably subjects about which you do have some respectable knowledge. Be forceful about them, but lay off the subjects where your "knowledge" is just wishful thinking -- or something you've picked up from watching a tv program. (Like the engines on the B-17. The ones I think were made by Curtiss-Wright.)
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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I've worked for Lockheed-Martin, too. The Boeing guys had better jokes, overall. I'd be leery of someone judging a company's competency based on 60 or 70 year old data. Sketch city. No offense, man, you just shouldn't make blanket statements, without a good blanket.
A lot of that goes on here, I notice.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Cars and trucks appeared before World War I, and were quite common in the 1920s and 1930s. Trains weren't superseded for long distance travel until the post-war economic boom, development of the interstate highway system, and the rise of economical and reliable turbo-prop and then jet planes.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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Now c'mon. Stop trying to make it sound like you know anything about this. There are probably subjects about which you do have some respectable knowledge. Be forceful about them, but lay off the subjects where your "knowledge" is just wishful thinking -- or something you've picked up from watching a tv program. (Like the engines on the B-17. The ones I think were made by Curtiss-Wright.)
Fair enough, Ghost, and you're right. But I'd still rather fly in a Boeing plane than an Airbus. Ya know?
Better quality control, better track record.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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A LOT of freight moves by train. A LOT. No, more than that, even. A staggering amount.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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China Breaks Airbus-Boeing Monopoly
Nov. 17, 2010
Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (Comac) has secured its first 100 C919 passenger-aircraft orders, breaking the near monopoly enjoyed by Airbus S.A.S. and The Boeing Co. (BA).
General Electric Co’s (GE) leasing arm and China’s three largest domestic airlines by fleet size were amongst the first customers for the 168-seater aircraft.
http://wallstreetpit.com/50684-china-breaks-airbus-boeing-monopoly
Note that GE, a NY-based corporation of no small significance, and it's Directors, have clearly decided lending a hand is a great idea.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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China Breaks Airbus-Boeing Monopoly
They haven't broken it yet. Bombardier is actually closer, but they too have a ways to go. And of course the Russians, who have been building large commercial jets for some time, will eventually build something that breaks out of their home market.
The currrent Boeing/Airbus duopoly control of the large jet market isn't quite done, but it is in its final days.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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this is b.s. Prop 23 failed in California. It did not fail because of some lily livered, pansy assed, knee jerk liberal environmentalist. It failed because some billionaire investors in the bay area realized that if it passed it would kill development.
These investors rallied others within the state and it was their money that was used to shoot down Prop 23.
They shot Prop 23 down because they knew that having environmental laws on the books would push technology and create jobs.
Next time, do your homework.
> Spending? Stop it! Pretty f*#king easy. Especially as we gear up for more CO2 regulation from the FED that will kill jobs.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 07:26pm PT
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> Spending? Stop it! Pretty f*#king easy. Especially as we gear up for more CO2 regulation from the FED that will kill jobs.
Welcome to the arguement, my friend.....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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there was an interesting article in the NYTimes, sometime in the last couple of weeks, about the cost effectiveness of household scale solar energy for remote African villages...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/science/earth/25fossil.html
these villagers are able to buy enough to power lights in their homes so their kids can study at night, to recharge the electronic equipment (mostly cell phones). Remember one of the biggest advances in the United States about 70 years ago was the electrification of rural areas, Woody Guthrie sang about it. It was a major advance in the standard of living in the States...
...now in Africa there is an interesting economic development going on... major electrification projects require large sources of capital, and therefore some business plan for recouping the investments. These sorts of major power projects do not have any incentive to put in the electrical grid infrastructure, it just isn't worth it... so these remote villages remain powerless... except they are able to get small loans to buy solar power, and the spend that loan on Chinese manufactured solar panels.
While it may be difficult for solar to compete in a place where the power grid infrastructure has already been put in place, such as the US, it is cost effective in locals where such infrastructure investments might not be justifiable on the basis of a capitalistic calculation.
Of course, such calculations were done during the US development period and it was decided that the private sector wasn't all that keen on the idea, so the US government did it, because it was good for the people of the US... not necessarily good for immediate return to commerce.
So it seems that the US industrial interests are loosing out on this market, to the Chinese. It is a good market in other ways, probably not a lot of dollars to be made, but a hell of a lot of good will, and a way to provide energy based on a local resource, the sun... less expensively and quicker than waiting for the power lines to be put in, the power plan to be built, and the power bill to be mailed.
The idea of "American Innovation" was not that it hewed to a particular dogma, but that it saw areas of mutual interest to potential users of a technology with the innovators of that technology. And the US government could be an important partner in that equation as the only institution with the role of looking out for everyone, balanced by their need, to provide resources to improve the general welfare of the citizens.
It seems that our current dogma is to try to hold onto the past as strongly as possible and resist the currents of change. We will quickly become irrelevant in most things and be feared because of our horrible capabilities... the world's bully.
I read that article and took heart:
As small-scale renewable energy becomes cheaper, more reliable and more efficient, it is providing the first drops of modern power to people who live far from slow-growing electricity grids and fuel pipelines in developing countries. Although dwarfed by the big renewable energy projects that many industrialized countries are embracing to rein in greenhouse gas emissions, these tiny systems are playing an epic, transformative role.
Since Ms. Ruto hooked up the system, her teenagers’ grades have improved because they have light for studying. The toddlers no longer risk burns from the smoky kerosene lamp. And each month, she saves $15 in kerosene and battery costs — and the $20 she used to spend on travel.
In fact, neighbors now pay her 20 cents to charge their phones, although that business may soon evaporate: 63 families in Kiptusuri have recently installed their own solar power systems.
safer living environment, better learning environment, and learning to be an entrepreneur, sounds like the American way, enabled by the Chinese, while we argue over how to keep our economy the way it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 08:00pm PT
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there was an interesting article in the NYTimes, sometime in the last couple of weeks, about the cost effectiveness of household scale solar energy for remote African villages...
What does that have to do with communists?? It's not such a bad idea, really.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 08:11pm PT
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Actually, Ed's idea is quite communistic, but yet, very cool!
Solar energy isn't really commie, just smart!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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What does that have to do with communists?? It's not such a bad idea, really.
well I think that's my point, who cares about communists or capitalist when the idea is a good one...
...it used to be we worked hard to have those good ideas, and at our best, we didn't worry about ideology so much.
But also, the last time I looked, the Chinese were an emerging world power, and still a communist regime... people are buying Chinese goods because we in the US seem to be self-obsessed with this ideology thing... and shooting ourselves in the feet, really sad...
There is no doubt that the US government can be a force of good both at home and in the world. The fact that the world recovered from WW II is by a large portion due to that beneficence. The fact that the US population is in such a good place is due, in large part, to the policies of its government.
There have always been disagreements over why this is so, the record seems to speak largely for itself. Every time you drive into the Valley you do it through tunnels dug during the 30's, fancy that, public works projects which you benefit from on your way to enjoy an avocation made possible by the decades of policies of the US government...
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